Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse?
Comments inline Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paolo Di Francesco Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 6:53 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse? Dear All, we are considering to move to licensed frequencies for back hauling and therefore some hints would be really appreciated. We are looking at 2 main manufacturers (Ceragon/Dragonwave) so the problem is which one fits better for our needs? Ceragon has a very good name, but is much more expensive than Dragonwave (and honestly I have a hard time finding the value proposition to Ceragon over Dragonwave... even though I sell Ceragon gear) Just to summarize: a) links are around 20-25 miles b) antennas: the smaller the better c) robustness is very important d) average life: 3 years Ceragon and Dragonwave will probably be equal on all three requirements for you. I'm sure many are going to mention Trango... Trango in general is going to require larger dishes (their output power is lower than Ceragon and Dragonwave), and robustness and average life are still questionable considering the gear has not been available for really more than a year and a half or so (and that would be the beta gear) From what I have read in the data sheets I have done the following considerations: 1) Dragonwave Horizon is nice but only if your site is well protected from sabotage and stealing. The all outdoor approach is nice but it has the drawback that if somebody takes the whole unit they will have a brand new unit working. With the IDU/ODU approach they will have only half of the banknote, so after the first or second time, they will not spend time having something useless. Your going to have this concern with any radio system you purchase... you should look at the Horizon Duo from Dragonwave if you want the split architecture. Personally this wouldn't be something I would be overally concerned with (you could always figure out a way to lock the ODU to the dish or the tower) 2) Dragonwave Horizon can be a problem if you don't use fiber from the unit down to your switch. In few words, we have sites with huge amount or EM fields, so even using shielded cables (e.g. Belden 1300A) we get only few ethernet megabits. So we should use fiber to go up the tower, but maybe be IDU/ODU approach is more robust (comments welcome). In that case I would use the Horizon Duo for the split architecture. You can also get the Horizon Compact with the fiber interface... 3) All outdoor means that when you have to re-use the devices somewhere else, you have to buy a whole new thing instead of just swapping the ODU. True... but they are also cheaper. But if your buying 11GHz links you can always redeploy it on a shorter link or a link of similar size... you can even deploy them on a longer link you may just have to purchase a larger dish. 4) In any case the (all outdoor or IDU/ODU) when the tower is frozen (and when I mean frozen I mean a whole block of ice) then it does not change much, you have to wait the better season to work on that. No matter what gear is on a tower... if your tower is frozen in ice working on it is going to be difficult. 5) Performances look more or less the same. Between Dragonwave and Ceragon... yes they are. 6) I don't know much about prices, I have looked on some website, I am still exploring this aspect If your interested hit me offlist and I can help you with some quotes 7) Is anybody using the software-switch capabilities on this devices or just using them as transparent bridges for your router/switch? Do you need to reset them often? I always view a bridge as a bridge... so I'm not of the opinion any radio bridge ought to do routing, etc. Let a router do it... and let a switch be a switch (for instance I would rather have a fully manageable switch than the four port deal on the Trango radios). We never had to reboot our Dragonwave radios... they only ever were rebooted when we lost power or something else happened... same goes for the two Ceragon links we had. Comments are welcome. Am I missing some other good brand? Nera is popular in Europe... and Harris-Stratex is pretty popular (although pretty expensive too). Personally I would only buy Dragonwave (and I'm not just saying that because I sell Dragonwave... I sell Exalt, Dragonwave, Ceragon, Nera, Cielo... and heck I'm sure I'm forgetting some) Thank you. -- Ing. Paolo Di Francesco Teleinform S.p.A. Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501 Fax: +39-091-6406200 http://www.wikitel.it http://www.teleinform.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
[WISPA] Imail Server Upgrade Trouble
We upgraded our Imail server this morning from version 8.15 to the latest release of Imail version 10. In the process our web interface has decided to ignore our mailboxes. If anyone out there has some experience with troubleshooting mailbox rebuilding issues in Imail then please call me at 618-237-2387 as soon as you read this. Your help is appreciated. Thank you, John Scrivner WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Imail Server Upgrade Trouble
There is a tool in the imail folder I be damned if I recall the name of it but it is to convert from old mailbox format to new format. It might do the trick. Unfortunately I'm driving so can check for you. I found out about it when I converted from Imail to SmarterMail. Which btw might be a product you might want to check out. To purchase it is almost cheaper then your yearly Imail maintenance agreement plus much better feature and have a webmail system that allow users to control to some degree their own spam settings and have good enterprise capabilities including blackberry calendar and contacts sync and easy shared contacts and calendar. Imail webmail does NOT handle mailboxes with some special characters that you might have created through imap. When you log in it just sits there until it finally times out. We been plagued by this for a long time and they never fixed it. Also SmarterMail comes at no additional charge with good/better spam filtering and virus screening and you can use a Linux box with spamassassin to assist with spam filtering. If you can not find the tool then check on smartermail how to convert from Imail to SmarterMail it's in the instructions. /Eje --Original Message-- From: John Scrivner Sender: To: WISPA General List ReplyTo: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Imail Server Upgrade Trouble Sent: Jan 18, 2009 11:52 We upgraded our Imail server this morning from version 8.15 to the latest release of Imail version 10. In the process our web interface has decided to ignore our mailboxes. If anyone out there has some experience with troubleshooting mailbox rebuilding issues in Imail then please call me at 618-237-2387 as soon as you read this. Your help is appreciated. Thank you, John Scrivner WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Imail Server Upgrade Trouble
Speaking of mail servers, anyone have any luck getting imap push technology to work? -- * Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA.ORG Vender Member* 314-735-0270 http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */ Link Technologies, Inc is offering LIVE Mikrotik On-Line Training http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp/* e...@wisp-router.com wrote: There is a tool in the imail folder I be damned if I recall the name of it but it is to convert from old mailbox format to new format. It might do the trick. Unfortunately I'm driving so can check for you. I found out about it when I converted from Imail to SmarterMail. Which btw might be a product you might want to check out. To purchase it is almost cheaper then your yearly Imail maintenance agreement plus much better feature and have a webmail system that allow users to control to some degree their own spam settings and have good enterprise capabilities including blackberry calendar and contacts sync and easy shared contacts and calendar. Imail webmail does NOT handle mailboxes with some special characters that you might have created through imap. When you log in it just sits there until it finally times out. We been plagued by this for a long time and they never fixed it. Also SmarterMail comes at no additional charge with good/better spam filtering and virus screening and you can use a Linux box with spamassassin to assist with spam filtering. If you can not find the tool then check on smartermail how to convert from Imail to SmarterMail it's in the instructions. /Eje --Original Message-- From: John Scrivner Sender: To: WISPA General List ReplyTo: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Imail Server Upgrade Trouble Sent: Jan 18, 2009 11:52 We upgraded our Imail server this morning from version 8.15 to the latest release of Imail version 10. In the process our web interface has decided to ignore our mailboxes. If anyone out there has some experience with troubleshooting mailbox rebuilding issues in Imail then please call me at 618-237-2387 as soon as you read this. Your help is appreciated. Thank you, John Scrivner WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Imail Server Upgrade Trouble
On Sun 18/01/09 12:08 PM , e...@wisp-router.com sent: There is a tool in the imail folder I be damned if I recall the name of it but it is to convert from old mailbox format to new format. It might do the trick. I don't think it's just that - during the install process, I was asked if I wanted to convert my old mailboxes. I said yes, and it did its thing for about 90 minutes. A couple years ago, I looked at Smartermail, but they didn't support (at the time) the notion of a default domain, or automatically recognizing what IP address you were using. Thus, we'd have had to retrain all our users (and reconfigure a zillion computers) to use 'u...@domain.org' instead of just 'user' as their POP3/IMAP/Web login. The mailboxes are still there, and are perfectly accessible via POP3 and IMAP. It's just their Web interface that's broken (shrug) David Smith MVN.net - This message was sent via a PHP demo version of @Mail - http://atmail.com/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Ligowave 3.65 Experience?
Anyone has deployed this units? Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Billboard Contact Info
For anyone who is interested: Clear Channel Communications Jim Ajaeb 888-551-7483 tow...@clearchannel.com www.towers.clearchannel.com Bob Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Filtering SMTP
ok, We use a Barracuda in Outbound mode as an SMTP server, would it be logical to NAT all our internal traffic with destination 25 to the Barracuda? Would this break any Business Customer with static ips and valid smtp servers? Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Filtering SMTP
If you wish all of your mail to come from that. We typically just restrict outbound SMTP to either pop/imap first, or an open list. But of course, they need to have their own IP to not poison yours. -- * Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA.ORG Vender Member* 314-735-0270 http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */ Link Technologies, Inc is offering LIVE Mikrotik On-Line Training http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp/* Gino Villarini wrote: ok, We use a Barracuda in Outbound mode as an SMTP server, would it be logical to NAT all our internal traffic with destination 25 to the Barracuda? Would this break any Business Customer with static ips and valid smtp servers? Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Filtering SMTP
ok, We use a Barracuda in Outbound mode as an SMTP server, would it be logical to NAT all our internal traffic with destination 25 to the Barracuda? Would this break any Business Customer with static ips and valid smtp servers? Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ligowave 3.65 Experience?
We have done some MT 3.75 links :) Sorry no ligowave. Simply put its better than 5 gig if there is lots of interference, but no better than 2.4 when it comes to LoS. -- * Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA.ORG Vender Member* 314-735-0270 http://www.linktechs.net http://www.linktechs.net/ */ Link Technologies, Inc is offering LIVE Mikrotik On-Line Training http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp/* Gino Villarini wrote: Anyone has deployed this units? Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Imail Server Upgrade Trouble
The Imail upgrade issue has been resolved (in case anyone's curious, it was an odd IIS permissions problem). David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Imail Server Upgrade Trouble
Yay. ;) hopefully my second suggestion help you out. /Eje --Original Message-- From: David E. Smith Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org To: d...@mvn.net To: WISPA General List ReplyTo: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Imail Server Upgrade Trouble Sent: Jan 18, 2009 16:41 The Imail upgrade issue has been resolved (in case anyone's curious, it was an odd IIS permissions problem). David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Test (please ignore, no response required)
Just finishing up a couple things on the misbegotten new mail server. Please ignore this message. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Test (please ignore, no response required)
Dully and dutifully ignored ;) --Original Message-- From: David E. Smith Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org To: WISPA General List ReplyTo: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Test (please ignore, no response required) Sent: Jan 18, 2009 17:07 Just finishing up a couple things on the misbegotten new mail server. Please ignore this message. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse?
I don't think Trango will be a good fit considering the 20-25 mile link distances, 18 Ghz. and the reduced tx power compared to others in the lower bands. Travis Johnson wrote: Take a look at the Trango GigaLink and APEX radios. They make both an IDU/ODU and just an ODU option. We just installed the APEX 18ghz systems. At one location we used the fiber option and it works great. You can contact them directly (www.trangobroadband.com) or contact Charles @ CTI. They are selling the 18ghz version with 2ft dishes for $9,995 right now (complete link). Travis Microserv Paolo Di Francesco wrote: Dear All, we are considering to move to licensed frequencies for back hauling and therefore some hints would be really appreciated. We are looking at 2 main manufacturers (Ceragon/Dragonwave) so the problem is which one fits better for our needs? Just to summarize: a) links are around 20-25 miles b) antennas: the smaller the better c) robustness is very important d) average life: 3 years From what I have read in the data sheets I have done the following considerations: 1) Dragonwave Horizon is nice but only if your site is well protected from sabotage and stealing. The all outdoor approach is nice but it has the drawback that if somebody takes the whole unit they will have a brand new unit working. With the IDU/ODU approach they will have only half of the banknote, so after the first or second time, they will not spend time having something useless. 2) Dragonwave Horizon can be a problem if you don't use fiber from the unit down to your switch. In few words, we have sites with huge amount or EM fields, so even using shielded cables (e.g. Belden 1300A) we get only few ethernet megabits. So we should use fiber to go up the tower, but maybe be IDU/ODU approach is more robust (comments welcome). 3) All outdoor means that when you have to re-use the devices somewhere else, you have to buy a whole new thing instead of just swapping the ODU. 4) In any case the (all outdoor or IDU/ODU) when the tower is frozen (and when I mean frozen I mean a whole block of ice) then it does not change much, you have to wait the better season to work on that. 5) Performances look more or less the same. 6) I don't know much about prices, I have looked on some website, I am still exploring this aspect 7) Is anybody using the software-switch capabilities on this devices or just using them as transparent bridges for your router/switch? Do you need to reset them often? Comments are welcome. Am I missing some other good brand? Thank you. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse?
Wella couple of notes... I personally would use an all ODU version because it makes servicing a breeze and also swapping out a bad radio quick and simple. No guessing about is it the indoor unit, is it the outdoor unit, is it the interface cable??? Get an all ODU like the Dragonwave Horizon and you run CAT5 and you're done. If you get a cable issue you either can't log in or see no handshake with your switch/router or..If one of the POE lines are bad your radio will continue to reboot. Troubleshoot the radio on the ground with a patch cable and you rule out your cabling system. Like was mentioned elsewhere here if you are concerned with theft you can lock the radios in place. This can be done by putting a security screw in place of the grounding screw and use a cable assembly to lock it up. If the theft concern is that high you should probably consider another location. With weather being a concern you could always install a second parallel link on the same antenna using a DPRM mount. Then if one link fails the other could be engaged to carry the traffic. I do not see this link really working (high 9's reliability) without 4' antennas. That of course leads to new mounting issues. At 6 Ghz. you are looking at 6' minimum dishes. Figure 600-800 lbs per antenna with mount not to say the least about cost, shipping and installation. I personally like Dragonwave for 2 reasons. 1 - The service facility is in this part of the hemisphere which allows me to get equipment overnight in emergencies. 2 - One year advanced replacement is only $500/year per radio. Allows me to sleep easily. This does not mean I do not like Ceragon. They are just doing some growing pains things at the moment and most of the stuff is serviced overseas unless it is an interface or something simple. Dragonwave support is very responsive though you do have to leave your name with a service and they call you back. I have installed more than 45 Dragonwave links in the past 2 years and have only had 2 failures. There are other options but history, price or delivery will kill them as an option. And stay away from equipment that does switching for you. Do all your control external to the radio. Bob Paolo Di Francesco wrote: Dear All, we are considering to move to licensed frequencies for back hauling and therefore some hints would be really appreciated. We are looking at 2 main manufacturers (Ceragon/Dragonwave) so the problem is which one fits better for our needs? Just to summarize: a) links are around 20-25 miles b) antennas: the smaller the better c) robustness is very important d) average life: 3 years From what I have read in the data sheets I have done the following considerations: 1) Dragonwave Horizon is nice but only if your site is well protected from sabotage and stealing. The all outdoor approach is nice but it has the drawback that if somebody takes the whole unit they will have a brand new unit working. With the IDU/ODU approach they will have only half of the banknote, so after the first or second time, they will not spend time having something useless. 2) Dragonwave Horizon can be a problem if you don't use fiber from the unit down to your switch. In few words, we have sites with huge amount or EM fields, so even using shielded cables (e.g. Belden 1300A) we get only few ethernet megabits. So we should use fiber to go up the tower, but maybe be IDU/ODU approach is more robust (comments welcome). 3) All outdoor means that when you have to re-use the devices somewhere else, you have to buy a whole new thing instead of just swapping the ODU. 4) In any case the (all outdoor or IDU/ODU) when the tower is frozen (and when I mean frozen I mean a whole block of ice) then it does not change much, you have to wait the better season to work on that. 5) Performances look more or less the same. 6) I don't know much about prices, I have looked on some website, I am still exploring this aspect 7) Is anybody using the software-switch capabilities on this devices or just using them as transparent bridges for your router/switch? Do you need to reset them often? Comments are welcome. Am I missing some other good brand? Thank you. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse?
To expand on one point made by Bob... If you need to add T-1's you can do that using Psuedowire with some boxes from Dragonwave... but you will probably find the ODU/IDU combo a bit easier to play with. To add a point for an all outdoor version CAT5 cable is much cheaper than LMR-400 and others... Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 4:38 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse? Wella couple of notes... I personally would use an all ODU version because it makes servicing a breeze and also swapping out a bad radio quick and simple. No guessing about is it the indoor unit, is it the outdoor unit, is it the interface cable??? Get an all ODU like the Dragonwave Horizon and you run CAT5 and you're done. If you get a cable issue you either can't log in or see no handshake with your switch/router or..If one of the POE lines are bad your radio will continue to reboot. Troubleshoot the radio on the ground with a patch cable and you rule out your cabling system. Like was mentioned elsewhere here if you are concerned with theft you can lock the radios in place. This can be done by putting a security screw in place of the grounding screw and use a cable assembly to lock it up. If the theft concern is that high you should probably consider another location. With weather being a concern you could always install a second parallel link on the same antenna using a DPRM mount. Then if one link fails the other could be engaged to carry the traffic. I do not see this link really working (high 9's reliability) without 4' antennas. That of course leads to new mounting issues. At 6 Ghz. you are looking at 6' minimum dishes. Figure 600-800 lbs per antenna with mount not to say the least about cost, shipping and installation. I personally like Dragonwave for 2 reasons. 1 - The service facility is in this part of the hemisphere which allows me to get equipment overnight in emergencies. 2 - One year advanced replacement is only $500/year per radio. Allows me to sleep easily. This does not mean I do not like Ceragon. They are just doing some growing pains things at the moment and most of the stuff is serviced overseas unless it is an interface or something simple. Dragonwave support is very responsive though you do have to leave your name with a service and they call you back. I have installed more than 45 Dragonwave links in the past 2 years and have only had 2 failures. There are other options but history, price or delivery will kill them as an option. And stay away from equipment that does switching for you. Do all your control external to the radio. Bob Paolo Di Francesco wrote: Dear All, we are considering to move to licensed frequencies for back hauling and therefore some hints would be really appreciated. We are looking at 2 main manufacturers (Ceragon/Dragonwave) so the problem is which one fits better for our needs? Just to summarize: a) links are around 20-25 miles b) antennas: the smaller the better c) robustness is very important d) average life: 3 years From what I have read in the data sheets I have done the following considerations: 1) Dragonwave Horizon is nice but only if your site is well protected from sabotage and stealing. The all outdoor approach is nice but it has the drawback that if somebody takes the whole unit they will have a brand new unit working. With the IDU/ODU approach they will have only half of the banknote, so after the first or second time, they will not spend time having something useless. 2) Dragonwave Horizon can be a problem if you don't use fiber from the unit down to your switch. In few words, we have sites with huge amount or EM fields, so even using shielded cables (e.g. Belden 1300A) we get only few ethernet megabits. So we should use fiber to go up the tower, but maybe be IDU/ODU approach is more robust (comments welcome). 3) All outdoor means that when you have to re-use the devices somewhere else, you have to buy a whole new thing instead of just swapping the ODU. 4) In any case the (all outdoor or IDU/ODU) when the tower is frozen (and when I mean frozen I mean a whole block of ice) then it does not change much, you have to wait the better season to work on that. 5) Performances look more or less the same. 6) I don't know much about prices, I have looked on some website, I am still exploring this aspect 7) Is anybody using the software-switch capabilities on this devices or just using them as transparent bridges for your router/switch? Do you need to reset them often? Comments are welcome. Am I missing some other good brand? Thank you. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse?
If you value anything at all stay away from Ceragon. Probably the worst brand of hardware and definitely the worst support I have encountered. Took them nearly a year to fix an ARP bug that locked up the radio, took half a dozen people, two of which flew on site to see it for themselves. On 1/18/09, 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net wrote: To expand on one point made by Bob... If you need to add T-1's you can do that using Psuedowire with some boxes from Dragonwave... but you will probably find the ODU/IDU combo a bit easier to play with. To add a point for an all outdoor version CAT5 cable is much cheaper than LMR-400 and others... Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 4:38 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse? Wella couple of notes... I personally would use an all ODU version because it makes servicing a breeze and also swapping out a bad radio quick and simple. No guessing about is it the indoor unit, is it the outdoor unit, is it the interface cable??? Get an all ODU like the Dragonwave Horizon and you run CAT5 and you're done. If you get a cable issue you either can't log in or see no handshake with your switch/router or..If one of the POE lines are bad your radio will continue to reboot. Troubleshoot the radio on the ground with a patch cable and you rule out your cabling system. Like was mentioned elsewhere here if you are concerned with theft you can lock the radios in place. This can be done by putting a security screw in place of the grounding screw and use a cable assembly to lock it up. If the theft concern is that high you should probably consider another location. With weather being a concern you could always install a second parallel link on the same antenna using a DPRM mount. Then if one link fails the other could be engaged to carry the traffic. I do not see this link really working (high 9's reliability) without 4' antennas. That of course leads to new mounting issues. At 6 Ghz. you are looking at 6' minimum dishes. Figure 600-800 lbs per antenna with mount not to say the least about cost, shipping and installation. I personally like Dragonwave for 2 reasons. 1 - The service facility is in this part of the hemisphere which allows me to get equipment overnight in emergencies. 2 - One year advanced replacement is only $500/year per radio. Allows me to sleep easily. This does not mean I do not like Ceragon. They are just doing some growing pains things at the moment and most of the stuff is serviced overseas unless it is an interface or something simple. Dragonwave support is very responsive though you do have to leave your name with a service and they call you back. I have installed more than 45 Dragonwave links in the past 2 years and have only had 2 failures. There are other options but history, price or delivery will kill them as an option. And stay away from equipment that does switching for you. Do all your control external to the radio. Bob Paolo Di Francesco wrote: Dear All, we are considering to move to licensed frequencies for back hauling and therefore some hints would be really appreciated. We are looking at 2 main manufacturers (Ceragon/Dragonwave) so the problem is which one fits better for our needs? Just to summarize: a) links are around 20-25 miles b) antennas: the smaller the better c) robustness is very important d) average life: 3 years From what I have read in the data sheets I have done the following considerations: 1) Dragonwave Horizon is nice but only if your site is well protected from sabotage and stealing. The all outdoor approach is nice but it has the drawback that if somebody takes the whole unit they will have a brand new unit working. With the IDU/ODU approach they will have only half of the banknote, so after the first or second time, they will not spend time having something useless. 2) Dragonwave Horizon can be a problem if you don't use fiber from the unit down to your switch. In few words, we have sites with huge amount or EM fields, so even using shielded cables (e.g. Belden 1300A) we get only few ethernet megabits. So we should use fiber to go up the tower, but maybe be IDU/ODU approach is more robust (comments welcome). 3) All outdoor means that when you have to re-use the devices somewhere else, you have to buy a whole new thing instead of just swapping the ODU. 4) In any case the (all outdoor or IDU/ODU) when the tower is frozen (and when I mean frozen I mean a whole block of ice) then it does not change much, you have to wait the better season to work on that. 5) Performances look more or less the same. 6) I don't know much about prices, I have looked on some website, I am still exploring this aspect 7) Is anybody using the software-switch capabilities on this
Re: [WISPA] Emailing: DSC_2282.JPG, DSC_2244.JPG, DSC_2251.JPG, DSC_2257.JPG, DSC_2262.JPG, DSC_2264.JPG, DSC_2270.JPG, DSC_2273.JPG
I imagine you could rig-up Cacti http://www.cacti.net/with the Threshold Alerting plugins using SNMP enabled product. *Weathergoose - *http://www.itwatchdogs.com/ Internal web server, temp, humidity, air flow, light, sound, attach up to 16 remote sensors. They have other sensors as well. http://www.itwatchdogs.com/products_sensors.shtml I haven't used one my self, but I got that recommendation from a thread on arstechnica. http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/833003030931/m/961001892931 Have Fun. -Israel Marlon K. Schafer wrote: Out here we're working on connecting a spud shed with the same needs. industrial HVAC systems should handle this via the internet by texting and/or emailing people. marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Emailing: DSC_2282.JPG, DSC_2244.JPG, DSC_2251.JPG,DSC_2257.JPG, DSC_2262.JPG, DSC_2264.JPG, DSC_2270.JPG, DSC_2273.JPG This reminds me of a need on e of my customers has. They own operate a large nursery with multiple greenhouses. When the temperature dips below 20 degrees someone must sleep in the shed near the greenhouses to monitor the heaters. If a heater turns off due to an electric outage or other reason they stand to loose thousands of dollars. They used to have an alarm type of system that ran through the phone lines that detected temperature and/or electric outage and paged them. Unfortunately the cost was not worth the occational slumber party so they ditched the phone lines. I figure there is something else that could work for this. Any ideas? -RickG On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 1:05 AM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com wrote: This freezing fog is very pretty but boy is it making a mess of things up here! Found out that battery backup units die faster than they can be charged! I'm going to have to buy more generators. 2 isn't enough and the camper that I can access is still snowed in. The good news is that this is supposed to let up in a bit under a week. marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Wireless Networking in Honduras
Hey there, I was forwarded here by a few good souls at NANOG in hopes to get some help. My name is Israel and I am the Technical Lead on an Engineers Without Borders USA http://www.ewb-usa.org/ project in Honduras. The project is called Olancho Aid http://ewb-oc.org/olancho/ and we were just approved by EWB. Our aim is to help a school system with their current wireless infrastructure. The network consists of a few point to point radio's and one multipoint radio located near the center of the geographical area; a total of 8 nodes (802.11G). We have an internet connection provided by the local WISP and they are using Motorola Canopy gear to provide us a small internet connection (256kbps, 4.2.2.2 RTT: ~100ms, 1-2% loss). The internal network however is in a poorer condition than what our WISP provides us. We are looking at RTTs of 2000ms+, Packet Loss of 40% and end-to-end throughput of around 800kbps. The goal is to provide a stable and robust backbone that will work under most weather conditions (Honduras is rainy) and support a wide range of services: Internal Web Applications, File Servers, VoIP, Chat, etc,. We may have to build an antenna tower to provide better LOS to our sites, and we could use help to determine placement spec-out potential equipment purchases. (900Mhz, 2.4Ghz or 5Ghz). We are looking to conduct our first assessment trip in April (Pending Funding Paperwork). If someone is willing to give us some pointers about conducting site-surveys for wireless networking (What tools methodologies), and a *BIG* plus would be someone who is familiar about the use of 900Mhz 5Ghz bands in Honduras (Local Regulations, etc,.). Thank you, I can take my answers off list. -Israel WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Ligowave 3.65 Experience?
Hello, Yes, so far they are working great!! We have 2 links installed and another 10 planed. We like using integrated units so we do not have to mess with LMR and taping connectors. However we are not getting the distances we need with the Integrated. We are going to use integrated on 1 side and connectorized on the other for links from 7 to 13 miles. This is because a few of the towers we are on we do not want to put a 2 foot dish on. Beyond the 13 miles we are planning to use 2 foot dishes on both sides. The max ERIP limit is kind of funny for the band. Below is a good link that will help you understand it. We use the max channel size. http://www.ligowave.com/wiki/index.php/LigoPTP-3_FCC_EIRP_Rules Ligo is in the process of getting approval for the other part of the 50mhz in 3.65. Right now we only have 25mHz of the 3.65. This means that with a channel size of 20mHz you have only 1 channel. We have not tested putting 2 radios on one tower yet. We plan to vertically separate them and put one on vertical and one on horizontal, but again we have not tested that yet. Hope that helps, I will keep you posted on our testing. From: motorola-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:motorola-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 2:21 PM To: Motorola Canopy User Group Cc: WISPA General List Subject: [Motorola II] Ligowave 3.65 Experience? Anyone has deployed this units? Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Emailing: DSC_2282.JPG, DSC_2244.JPG, DSC_2251.JPG, DSC_2257.JPG, DSC_2262.JPG, DSC_2264.JPG, DSC_2270.JPG, DSC_2273.JPG
Sometimes. We had almost 30 inches for a short time around Christmas... I live at the base of the Blue Mountains. I may have bare ground, but 5 15 miles away will have 10 feet or more. Mark insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: George Rogato wi...@oregonfast.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 3:20 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Emailing: DSC_2282.JPG, DSC_2244.JPG, DSC_2251.JPG, DSC_2257.JPG, DSC_2262.JPG, DSC_2264.JPG, DSC_2270.JPG, DSC_2273.JPG Mark Do you get much snow where you are? rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote: That's got to be such a relief, compared to the heat of summer... :) http://neofast.net/users/mark/pics/wp/centerou.jpg That's how town looks in the summer... Geeze, I am thirsty and gotta go turn the heat down, just looking at it.. Hope nobody gets hurt dealing with it. Stay out from under the trees! We are having a mild version of the same here. A few years back, we had a doozy... There was nearly a half inch of ice on the ground, and the frost crystals on the antennas were 4-5 inches deep. A link with -63 RSSI faded to around -87 just from the frost building up. I've got this huge and very old locust tree out front of my house that's slowly dropping the branches off... A few years ago one broke off and smashed the back end of our minivan. did enough damage it went to the wrecking yard. Be careful, it's not worth getting hurt to keep the web pages loading :) insert witty tagline here - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 10:05 PM Subject: [WISPA] Emailing: DSC_2282.JPG, DSC_2244.JPG, DSC_2251.JPG,DSC_2257.JPG, DSC_2262.JPG, DSC_2264.JPG, DSC_2270.JPG, DSC_2273.JPG This freezing fog is very pretty but boy is it making a mess of things up here! Found out that battery backup units die faster than they can be charged! I'm going to have to buy more generators. 2 isn't enough and the camper that I can access is still snowed in. The good news is that this is supposed to let up in a bit under a week. marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
