Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti Sector Tilt angle
Technically speaking you're wrong. The highest gain area of a sector antenna is the center point between the horizontal and vertical spreads. If you don't downtilt you are sending the strongest part of the signal parallel to the horizon. Why would you ever want to do that? The whole reason you downtilt is to get the strongest signal pointed to the area you want. Figuring this out takes some basic trig calcs using the tangent function. No one has asked the most important questions you need to know when calculating downtilt: 1. How high up is the sector antenna? 2. How far out or in what range near to far do you want the sweet spot? 3. How close in to the tower do you need service? #2 and #3 can conflict with each other and you may have to make a tradeoff. leb At 2:22 PM -0400 3/29/10, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: . Technically speaking.. if you are not concerned about dealing with 'near' customers less than 1 or 2 miles... then you can pretty much leave the sectors at '0' tilt.. and you have coverage to the horizon The built-in electrical down-tilt typically throws folks off.. only becomes a factor if you are needing to down tilt for near customers.. Faisal. On 3/29/2010 1:36 PM, Robert West wrote: I'm having a heck of a time with the large UBNT sectors getting the tilt angle to jive. With the smaller sectors, they behave perfectly and go right where the calculations say they will however, with the larger ones, nothing I do other than have someone 10 miles out with a CPE check levels while I tilt up and down seems to be good. I REALLY don't want to have to do that with all of them... Anyone having any success or insight with the proper tilt of these things? Using the 120 degree 5GHz flavors. Thanks! Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 Logo5 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- l...@iridescent.org WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Channel Recommendation Gel Filled Ethernet
Which cable or kind of fill are you using? If it's the silicon fill from Mohawk you can easily clean it with an orange cleaner and that could help. leb At 10:20 PM -0400 3/17/10, Robert West wrote: I use flooded cable exclusively. Have you tried another make of crimper? Maybe you aren't getting a good enough crimp from the one you are using. The only time I have issues with the ends is when I snag them on something but I've only had the outer jacket come loose from the connecter but never the conductors. Even with the gel the crimp on the conductors have always held fast. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 1:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Channel Recommendation Gel Filled Ethernet What do you get in vertical polarity? marlon - Original Message - From: Israel Lopez-LISTS ilopezli...@sandboxitsolutions.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 12:01 PM Subject: [WISPA] Channel Recommendation Gel Filled Ethernet Hey Guys, Trying to choose the best channel for a new installation. http://ewbhonduras.tumblr.com/post/450395382/1hr-wispy-rf-2-4-capture-from-t he-horizontal This is what I see, I attached the WiSPY along with a laptop, and mounted both on the tower we are planning on using for one hour. Then brought the laptop down. Any suggestions? Also, what is the best way to handle crimping gel-filled cat5e cable? We are having a heck of a time with the ends slipping off and the individual conductors slipping out. -Israel WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- l...@iridescent.org WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ethernet LEDs
The link LED and all other LEDs for Ethernet Jacks/Connections are driven by the Ethernet PHY chip or the Ethernet chip itself the PHY is integrated. Link is turned on by the PHY sensing the LIT (link integrity test) in 10BaseT which I believe has become part of the auto-negotiation protocol in later standards. This is part of the Layer-1 (Physical Later) protocol in the spec. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonegotiation So to be clear it's not just a LED hooked up to one of the wire via a resister or some analog hack like that. The PHY knows that their is another PHY on the other side of the cable and if the PHY sees the other PHY it turns on the LINK light. PHYs often provide other lines to show collision, speed, and duplex and these can be tied into other individual LEDS or bi-color LEDs. If the link lights are on at both ends the connection is good. It still might be the case that a duplex mismatch or bad auto-speed negotiation could cause problems. Both of these problems show up from time to time, especially on older gear. For both cases the cure is often to fix the speed or duplex on one side and that prevents the auto-negotiation from failing. One cause of not getting a link light is that a MDI/MDI-X mismatch. Most newer chips have auto MDI/MDI-X which prevents the problem in most cases. leb At 12:52 PM -0500 3/11/10, Robert West wrote: Yeah, but which circuit? The transmit, receive or maybe the unused pairs? That got me wondering also. Anyone know what pair triggers the light??? Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Justin Wilson Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 12:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ethernet LEDs Simple terms it's the completion of a circuit. --- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net On Mar 11, 2010, at 11:29 AM, Cameron Crum cc...@dot11net.com wrote: This may be a little out there, but does anyone know what causes the link light to show on an ethernet jack when the cable is plugged in? Is it as simple as just attaching an led to one of the signal wires, or is there some logic in there. Just curious. --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- l...@iridescent.org WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] iPhone ssh app
I use pterm for SSH access to my Cisco routers. I purchased it some time ago and there may be better programs out there now. At 3:54 PM -0600 3/11/10, Data Technology wrote: I know in the last couple of weeks there was a discussion about an ssh app for the iPhone. I did not save the emails because I thought I would never need something like because I don't have an iPhone. But, I bought an iPhone last night and now I am looking for an ssh app. I have found iSSH and the reviews are good about it. I know that $7.99 for an app is a lot of money but if this is the one to have then I don't mind spending the money. This also appears to have a vnc client as well. Any input as far as SSH utilities or any other iPhone apps for WISP operations would be appreciated. LaRoy McCann Data Technology WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- l...@iridescent.org WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Extra jacketed CAT5e
I can recommend both versions of Mohawk cable. The burial cable is very stiff because of the thick plastic inner jacket. The aerial lash cable is the one I have the most experience with. Both cabled are flooded with silicon goo on the inside. It is messy but it cleans up very easily with an orange based cleaner. The Mohawk cable come in a bunch of versions CAT5+. CAT-6, CAT6+ ... In all cases the outer jacket is made from Polyethylene which is key for outdoor use. One thing, it can be hard to find RJ-45 connector made for this cable. I tried to convince Mohawk to pay someone to make connectors just for these cables, but I don't think they wanted to spend the $. leb At 12:58 PM -0500 2/3/10, Josh Luthman wrote: I've used that Mohawk cable but I actually prefer the Superior Essex stuff recommended by 3db. I believe it was for the PTP400/500 products. Both work just as well, but the Superior Essex is a bit cheaper. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com wrote: Was looking for something more like this http://www.mohawk-cable.com/images/products/pdf/lantrak%20cat%205e%20sctp.pd f Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of lakel...@gbcx.net Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 11:32 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Extra jacketed CAT5e 1351A is the heavy duty outdoor version we use. But that number is for CAT6 I believe Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Kurt Fankhauser k...@wavelinc.com Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 11:21:57 To: 'WISPA General List'wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Extra jacketed CAT5e I seen some cat5e once that had a second jacket around it, it was obviously made for outdoors and was very durable and it was running through a woods just laying on the ground. I think it was made by Belkin. Does anyone know what this is and if you have a link where I can get it that would be great. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- l...@iridescent.org WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] power
You guys should know that the 802.11 radios I have worked with can have built in attenuators, sometimes more than one, that can get switched on and off based on RX power level sensed in hardware. How many and at what levels the attenuators kick in varies from card to card and vendor to vendor. ODMs have the ability to change this part of the design. If implemented properly, which may not always be the case, the built in attenuators should prevent most RX overload. To make it even more complicated there can also be LNAs that can switched on or off. I mention all this because if your mental model of how the card works assumes that everything is linear, it could be wrong. Best, leb At 2:45 AM -0500 2/2/10, Jerry Richardson wrote: I would say yes with one caveat, If you need -71 to get full modulation and need to guarantee that it holds like in a PTP link then you would want additional fade margin. Assuming an additional 10db would mean you would want -61 minimum. A PTMP network may or may not need that kind margin and could use less power. Ideally one only uses enough power to acheive the required levels to make the link plus some margin. Anything over that is just polluting your own rf space. Sent Mobile Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications On Feb 1, 2010, at 7:09 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Floor is -98. So, using 20dB fade margin would mean -70's is good? On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 10:01 PM, Jerry Richardson jrichard...@aircloud.comwrote: I tend to use 20dB fade margin. If the floor is -80, then -60 is going to be great. This works until you are dealing with a -60dB floor cause -40dB is going to be too hot and overload the Rx of the radios. Sent Mobile Jerry Richardson airCloud Communications On Feb 1, 2010, at 5:56 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Ya, thats what I do. I'm just concerned about what the best power level is? I hate to create a monster based on the wrong settings. On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 8:21 PM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I have a few like that. Cheap and quick for low density population. Use a pac grid for the backhaul and a bullet with an omni for the AP. Check your polarity, make sure you're on the right orientation and right radio. My grids are horz. Pol and the omnis, well. Vertical of course! Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 8:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] power OK, I need a little input. I've got several poor mans repeaters around by using a pair of bullets, one for backhaul and the other for the AP. Today, I installed a Bullet on a new customer that was a stones throw away from the AP. At full power, he got just under 1Mbps. Turning down the power, he got 3Mbps+. Is turning down the power on the CPE side on a test and trial basis or is there some kind of method to it? -RickG --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] 5.6 GHZ?
Does anyone know the frequency range of the 5.6 Doppler Radar? leb At 3:08 PM -0500 11/24/09, Tom DeReggi wrote: Forbes, Historically, The FCC has usually grandfathered pre-existing installations, to protect those that have already deployed equipment. You have 250Mhz available today between 5.4g and 5.7g. My recommendation is If it works use it. If you have a airport radar system near by dont. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Jack Unger To: WISPA General List ; memb...@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 1:16 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.6 GHZ? IMO, it is iffy for the reason you mentioned. The FCC (at the request of the FAA and the NTIA) appears ready to deny use of the 5.6 spectrum in areas where interference with airport weather radar takes place. I doubt that any WISP would ague that their use of that spectrum is more important than safe operation of commercial aircraft. I expect that newly certified 5 GHz equipment will soon (within the next year) include a updated DFS algorithm that looks for the presence of 5.6 GHz radar and switches away from 5.6 when radar is detected. Your existing equipment may remain technically legal but you do run the risk of possibly being blamed for aircraft crashes assuming you are unlucky enough to be using 5.6 near airports where you could cause actual interference to Terminal Doppler Weather Radar systems. See http://tiny.cc/LIlqB for more information. jack Travis Johnson wrote: It's iffy because the FCC allowed the specific band, and now they are trying to take it back away... two years later. If I never upgrade my radios, does that mean I'm legal to run in that specific band forever? I just don't understand how they can allow it for 2 years, and then try and take it away and think they are going to clean up the airways. Travis Microserv 3-dB Networks wrote: Motorola Canopy 5.4GHz radios updated with the latest firmware cannot transmit in the 5600-5650 part of the band. I don't understand what is iffy about the band... Canopy operators have been using it for two years or so now legally, and while DFS still has issues in its current implementation, the FCC is working to make the DFS detection better on the radio side and in turn make it harder to radio manufacturers to allow clients to avoid using DFS Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 11:02 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.6 GHZ? 5470 - 5725 is a legitimate band but DFS2 must be used on the radios. There is currently FCC activity to modify the DFS profiles for all newly-certified radios to avoid aircraft radar system in the 5.6 GHz part of the 5470-5725 band. The bottom line is - it's pretty iffy. jack Forbes Mercy wrote: My new MIMO radios have 5.6 GHZ on them, I don't recall that frequency being available in the US. Is it? Forbes WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString... -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA
Re: [WISPA] Times Microwave EZ connectors
This is going to sound like a Huber+Suhner commercial. 1. Waterproof connectors At 11:41 PM + 11/19/09, lakel...@gbcx.net wrote: No 400 connector from any of the manufacturers is weatherproof by itself. You need to weatherproof all of your connections. If they are not getting wet you are lucky. Plain and simple. True for most low end connectors. However, H+S makes connectors with integrated o-rings that are IP68/NEMA-6 rated. That means they have to pass a water submersion test. I have used the product with success. They are probably more expensive than most WISP's can afford, but you get what you pay for. I don't know if they have one that would work for LMR-400 cable. They also make hermetically sealed connectors. http://www.hubersuhnerinc.com/co-ca-us/mozilla/us-news.htm?org=4F0184A3DC3E6840newsid=D05AABE63966F25Eitemstate=2back=ECC6CA06810995BD1581FAC18CAA4AFB 2. adhesive shrink tubing At 4:42 PM -0700 11/19/09, AJ wrote: CANUSA adhesive shrink tubing is your friend :) Adhesive shrink tubing probably won't pass IP68, but that doesn't mean it won't help. 3. There is better cable out there than LMR-400. Again H+S makes one that is quite a bit better, especially at 5.8 GHz, and not too expensive. Contact me off list if you need pointers. Having said that I suspect that H+S doesn't want to sell directly to WISPs but rather to large customers and distributors. Best, leb At 11:41 PM + 11/19/09, lakel...@gbcx.net wrote: No 400 connector from any of the manufacturers is weatherproof by itself. You need to weatherproof all of your connections. If they are not getting wet you are lucky. Plain and simple. Bob Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:20:52 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Times Microwave EZ connectors I've run out of these, and none of the vendors I use commonly carry them. Anyone out west have these? Yeah, I know, it costs more to buy two of these than a whole pre-built 10 foot cable, but every danged pre-built I buy has water issues. We have never had to seal any of the cables we built ourselves, and none of them have ever leaked (except when someone who'll forever remain nameless forgot to tighten the cable...), but I have no luck at all with the pre-made I've bought from multiple places. Our temporary site needed to go up in a real hurry, so I bought a whole pile of parts and cables, and most of them have had issues. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- l...@iridescent.org WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Dual Band Sectors
I can highly recommend this little known vendor based in Ireland. http://www.stelladoradus.com/dual.tri.band.antennas.php As noted on the web page the US contact is: pspoo...@mindspring.com Best, leb At 5:17 PM -0500 11/3/09, Eric Rogers wrote: Has anyone used any 2.4/5.8 Dual Band Sectors? Does anyone know of any that are 120*? I have found some that are 90. Thanks, Eric Rogers Precision Data Solutions, LLC (317) 831-3000 x200 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- l...@iridescent.org WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] To G or not to G :-)
I think you guys know most of this already, but here is my take FWIW. I'm not a WISP, but I spent 5 years leading the design and development of an 802.11[agb] security system. We did our own polling solution based on 802.11e HCCA to solve the RTS/hidden node problem. All things being equal (which they often aren't) 802.11b will give you a higher S/N and C/I than 802.11g, because in almost all cases and especially at higher speeds. 802.11g has to lower the PA power because of the PAPR of OFDM and meeting the 802.11g EVM spec. It is true that 2.4 GHz can be very polluted. We found the noise floor to be really awful. You would be surprised by the number of entities that know they are way over the FCC max power in 2.4 GHz, but I digress. We once measured over 300 PHY errors a second on an unused 2.4 GHz channel. The number went down to 150 PHY errors a second inside an FCC chamber, if you can believe that. Having said all that we didn't use 802.11b at all because it's data rates are too low for video. Also while we supported 2.4 GHz, we mostly deployed at 5.8 GHz ISM because of the increased power available there and the pollution was much less, but that maybe different now. For 802.11[ag] mutlipoint, the sweet spot speed wise is 18-36 Mbps. It's very hard to keep a multipoint system at 48 or 54 Mbps because you need a great deal of link margin and with all cards you loose power as the speed increases to maintain PAPR/EVM. For point to point with direction antenna relief you can often maintain 48 or 54. Antennae make a big difference, as others have noted horizontal polarization is usually best and make the beam as narrow as you can afford because it raises the effective gain. However, if you are in an area where everyone else is horizontal it can make sense to try vertical. With some of the antennae we used that was as simple as rotating the antenna 90 deg at both ends. Watch out for crappy antennae, cheap cable, bad connectors, and so on. That can often cost you a few dB. In the product I designed I spent more time then I care to admit trying to make a very tough loss budget that I set out as a goal. There is no substitute for link margin, you can never really have enough. I can confirm that our sweeps with a spectrum analyzer show lots of opportunity to use 5 and 10 MHz channels, as others have also noted. For WISPs it would be nice if chip vendors designed the radios so that you could set the channel bandwidth from 5-40 MHz in 1 MHz increments. It can be done but probably won't be, although maybe the Microsoft WhiteFI stuff force the chip vendors to do it. In WiMax and LTE they are already doing some things close to this. Still 5, 10, and 20 isn't bad and probably hits the sweet spot or 80/20 rule. One of the down sides of fitting a 5 or 10 MHz channel in a sweet spot is that it can change at any time. Best, leb At 9:58 AM -0500 10/1/09, Jason Hensley wrote: In 2.4 land, if you have a lot of noise, which protocol is better - B or G? Is it better to run an AP as locked into one mode or is it OK to do a mix? Max I want off of 2.4 customers is 3meg so not that worried about the extra speed that G will provide, but, I would like to know which is more stable? I've always thought that B was more stable overall but just provided less bandwidth. I've gotten some info that may counter that. What's the real-world experience with folks in a high-noise environment, combined with a higher useage AP? I've got an AP that we've run in B mode only for a while. We've started having problems with it - speeds go from 3meg at the customer to 200k and fluctuate constantly. We've worked with RTS, ACK timeouts, etc etc and nothing seems to have improved the stability. For testing purposes we put up another AP right next to the one we're having trouble with. Switched two of our gaming clients to that one (setup as G mode only) and they seem to be doing better, but not quite as good as we feel they could be. This is on Deliberant AP's (Duos). The backhaul part of it is not the issue - we can pull close to 15meg back to our office when cabled into the AP. We have other Deliberant APs that are running MANY more clients than this one so we know it's not limitations of the equipment. AP is on top of a water tower. Have taken all clients off and brought them back on one by one and it did not reveal anything significant. With just one customer on the AP started acting up again. Swapped radios in the AP thinking we could have one going bad and still no luck. 2.4 antennas are H-pol. We have a ton of noise in the area, but we've been through basically every channel and it did not help either. Other AP's in the vicinity are performing fine. Thought of the multipath issue so we raised our test AP up a little higher than the other one. As I said, the test AP seems to be better, but next to it on top of the tower we can get around 8 or 9 meg down (locked into G mode), but at the
Re: [WISPA] 10 GigE
Mike, If you can set your application up to be more switching than routing based you could consider the new Arista switches. Very high 10 GbE port density with low cost. You don't specify what kind of routing you are doing but if it is BGP they have that in Beta now. I have no idea what the routing throughput numbers will be. I don't have any personal experience or financial interest in the company. http://www.aristanetworks.com/en/Index Best, leb At 12:22 PM -0500 4/9/09, Mike Hammett wrote: Any recommendations for routers that have multiple 10 GigE interfaces? I believe the PowerRouter can only do 3 and I'm looking for at least 4, even up to 8 or 10. I didn't see anything from ImageStream that went that high. I don't need to do 100 Gigs of throughput, but if you need 1 GigE of commit, you really need a 10 GigE for bursting. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5.3/5.8 GHz Antenna Suggestion
1. Does anyone have any experience with the XtremeWave MPR Series from PCTEL/MaxRad? 2. Can anyone comapre the PacWireless offerings to the XtremeWave MPR Series? I suspect the MPR's are more expensive/ 3. Some of the MPR's have side lobes that make alignment challenging. In this case we are talking about the 24 5.8 GHz model.Does anyone have an tips or ideas on how to align 24 dishes on 70-100 foot towers. To be honest our installer seems to be having issues getting it right. I actually think we'll get it next time. There are 3 cases: side lobe to side lobe main lobe to side lobe main lobe to main lobe We started out with side lobe to side lobe. In the second attempt we briefly saw what I believe was main lobe to main lobe, but person to person communication problems forced us to settle for main lobe to side lobe, which was 5 dB more RSSI and not the 10 dB we had seen or hoped for. Best, leb At 11:11 AM -0800 12/30/06, Mark Nash - Lists wrote: I have usually used Trango backhauls, so I have not had to worry about 5 GHz antennas and what to choose. Now I'm going to try a MikroTik backhaul with a CM9. Currently, I've got two applications: 1. 2-mile link that I can perhaps use 5.3GHz over. 2. 8-mile link that I'll go 5.8GHz over. What antennas have you used to accomplish links such as these... Also, kI have heard that the output power of the CM9 in a MikroTik can be adjusted. Experience? Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
