Re: [WISPA] FCC Says White-Space Spectrum Device Doesn't Work
All, focusing on the future of white space is so far off that you can't even assume that the current technologies used will even apply ( or there will be a market for WISPs to service ) If I was any of you I would be banging down the FCC's door to get decent output power ( greater than 1w EIRP ) for 3.65 otherwise there is no NLOS magic wisp bullet ever. its back to good ol LOS! On Aug 9, 2007, at 9:48 AM, Patrick Leary wrote: To reinforce Steve's comment, Butch it is not only the technology that will very distinct, but the applications running across such spectrum will be distinct. Most likely we'd see some sort of future TV-ish application, one that is interactive, user selectable in terms of content and God knows what else. And as Steve noted, the technology will be a big challenge. Not only must such devices deal with protecting broadcasts, but it will also have to not interfere with the millions of low end receivers in the market sitting in every home in the U.STVs. Basically, for the white space a whole ecosystem will have to be created and evolve and know one has any real idea what this will look like. I would estimate that we are years from any mass usage of white space and frankly, bwa vendors have their hands full at the moment with the other current and forthcoming bands. For example, our R&D run rate is better than $13M a quarter -- a massive pace, especially relative to those companies you are familiar with (it is a number equivalent to some WISP vendors full year of revenues) and every dollar of that is going toward development and evolution of products for the current and growing unlicensed and licensed markets. Long before anything can be done with the white space we have to deal with 3.65 and 700, much less all the current frequencies. BTW, I do know a little about the device the IT companies forwarded to the FCC. Let's just say that these IT companies are gurus of tech, but they are clearly not exactly radio guys! - Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 8:58 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] FCC Says White-Space Spectrum Device Doesn't Work On Thu, 9 Aug 2007, Patrick Leary wrote: Well, most that can are probably doing what we are doing Mike, which is to study, monitor, and plant some seeds. It is a bit early to market an actual system. The nature of the band will require some atypical technologies and the applications will likely be broader than fixed wireless as we know it today. I presume you're referring to mobile applications. I know that you (Alvarion) have a mobile 900 product, so the step to this lower band should be and easy one for that technology anyway. You don't have any information on what device the FCC tested and failed, do you? You're the guy that would know if anyone does. :-) -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** ** This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses(190). ** ** ** ** This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses(42). ** ** ** ** This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses(84). ** ** ** ** This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for
RE: [WISPA] FCC Says White-Space Spectrum Device Doesn't Work
Mike, I believe the FCC is plenty smart and will not assume that what the IT and computer guys did as a first pass is representative of what the long-time radio pros can achieve. Frankly, I am amused at the result and appreciate the FCC's public candor since, as it shows the IT giants that this stuff is not as easy as it seems. Radio access network (RAN) technology is not something that can be duffered together and these guys will need to partner with those for whom RAN expertise is a proven core competency. Guys like Hitachi (a recently announced Alvarion partner) already understand this. - Patrick Alvarion -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 9:49 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Says White-Space Spectrum Device Doesn't Work Well, so far Google, Dell, etc. have painted a piss poor picture to the FCC of what can be done in those bands. Someone needs to show them that it can be done right so that we will have the ability to use those spaces. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Patrick Leary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 10:45 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] FCC Says White-Space Spectrum Device Doesn't Work Well, most that can are probably doing what we are doing Mike, which is to study, monitor, and plant some seeds. It is a bit early to market an actual system. The nature of the band will require some atypical technologies and the applications will likely be broader than fixed wireless as we know it today. - Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 6:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Says White-Space Spectrum Device Doesn't Work As someone else has asked... what are the fixed wireless companies doing in the white spaces? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Frank Muto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 8:21 PM Subject: [WISPA] FCC Says White-Space Spectrum Device Doesn't Work > FCC Says White-Space Spectrum Device Doesn't Work, Techdirt, 8/8/2007 > > A gaggle of tech companies, led by Google and Microsoft, have been pushing > the FCC to open up the "white space" spectrum -- open airwaves in between > those used by TV broadcasts -- for use by electronic devices and broadband > services. http://techdirt.com/articles/20070807/114424.shtml > > > > Frank Muto > FSM Marketing Group, Inc. > www.SecureEmailPlus.com > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses(190). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses(42). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses(84). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses. ***
Re: [WISPA] FCC Says White-Space Spectrum Device Doesn't Work
Well, so far Google, Dell, etc. have painted a piss poor picture to the FCC of what can be done in those bands. Someone needs to show them that it can be done right so that we will have the ability to use those spaces. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Patrick Leary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 10:45 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] FCC Says White-Space Spectrum Device Doesn't Work Well, most that can are probably doing what we are doing Mike, which is to study, monitor, and plant some seeds. It is a bit early to market an actual system. The nature of the band will require some atypical technologies and the applications will likely be broader than fixed wireless as we know it today. - Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 6:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Says White-Space Spectrum Device Doesn't Work As someone else has asked... what are the fixed wireless companies doing in the white spaces? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Frank Muto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 8:21 PM Subject: [WISPA] FCC Says White-Space Spectrum Device Doesn't Work FCC Says White-Space Spectrum Device Doesn't Work, Techdirt, 8/8/2007 A gaggle of tech companies, led by Google and Microsoft, have been pushing the FCC to open up the "white space" spectrum -- open airwaves in between those used by TV broadcasts -- for use by electronic devices and broadband services. http://techdirt.com/articles/20070807/114424.shtml Frank Muto FSM Marketing Group, Inc. www.SecureEmailPlus.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses(190). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses(42). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses(84). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] FCC Says White-Space Spectrum Device Doesn't Work
To reinforce Steve's comment, Butch it is not only the technology that will very distinct, but the applications running across such spectrum will be distinct. Most likely we'd see some sort of future TV-ish application, one that is interactive, user selectable in terms of content and God knows what else. And as Steve noted, the technology will be a big challenge. Not only must such devices deal with protecting broadcasts, but it will also have to not interfere with the millions of low end receivers in the market sitting in every home in the U.STVs. Basically, for the white space a whole ecosystem will have to be created and evolve and know one has any real idea what this will look like. I would estimate that we are years from any mass usage of white space and frankly, bwa vendors have their hands full at the moment with the other current and forthcoming bands. For example, our R&D run rate is better than $13M a quarter -- a massive pace, especially relative to those companies you are familiar with (it is a number equivalent to some WISP vendors full year of revenues) and every dollar of that is going toward development and evolution of products for the current and growing unlicensed and licensed markets. Long before anything can be done with the white space we have to deal with 3.65 and 700, much less all the current frequencies. BTW, I do know a little about the device the IT companies forwarded to the FCC. Let's just say that these IT companies are gurus of tech, but they are clearly not exactly radio guys! - Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 8:58 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] FCC Says White-Space Spectrum Device Doesn't Work On Thu, 9 Aug 2007, Patrick Leary wrote: >Well, most that can are probably doing what we are doing Mike, >which is to study, monitor, and plant some seeds. It is a bit early >to market an actual system. The nature of the band will require >some atypical technologies and the applications will likely be >broader than fixed wireless as we know it today. I presume you're referring to mobile applications. I know that you (Alvarion) have a mobile 900 product, so the step to this lower band should be and easy one for that technology anyway. You don't have any information on what device the FCC tested and failed, do you? You're the guy that would know if anyone does. :-) -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses(190). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses(42). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses(84). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] FCC Says White-Space Spectrum Device Doesn't Work
Butch: There were actually two different whitespace devices tested by the FCC, and they were very much prototypes. Making a device for whitespaces is markedly different than anything vendors such as Alvarion have ever done, because a whitespaces device has to guard against interfering with television broadcast signals AND wireless microphones (yes, really - wireless microphones are a licensed use of whitespace spectrum). Until there are real whitespace rules at least proposed... how does a company like Alvarion even know what to attempt to build? Thanks, Steve On 8/9/07, Butch Evans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I presume you're referring to mobile applications. I know that you > (Alvarion) have a mobile 900 product, so the step to this lower band > should be and easy one for that technology anyway. > > You don't have any information on what device the FCC tested and > failed, do you? You're the guy that would know if anyone does. :-) > > -- > Butch Evans > Network Engineering and Security Consulting > 573-276-2879 > http://www.butchevans.com/ > My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 > Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf > Mikrotik Certified Consultant > http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html -- Steve Stroh 425-939-0076 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.stevestroh.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] FCC Says White-Space Spectrum Device Doesn't Work
On Thu, 9 Aug 2007, Patrick Leary wrote: Well, most that can are probably doing what we are doing Mike, which is to study, monitor, and plant some seeds. It is a bit early to market an actual system. The nature of the band will require some atypical technologies and the applications will likely be broader than fixed wireless as we know it today. I presume you're referring to mobile applications. I know that you (Alvarion) have a mobile 900 product, so the step to this lower band should be and easy one for that technology anyway. You don't have any information on what device the FCC tested and failed, do you? You're the guy that would know if anyone does. :-) -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] FCC Says White-Space Spectrum Device Doesn't Work
Well, most that can are probably doing what we are doing Mike, which is to study, monitor, and plant some seeds. It is a bit early to market an actual system. The nature of the band will require some atypical technologies and the applications will likely be broader than fixed wireless as we know it today. - Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 6:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC Says White-Space Spectrum Device Doesn't Work As someone else has asked... what are the fixed wireless companies doing in the white spaces? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Frank Muto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 8:21 PM Subject: [WISPA] FCC Says White-Space Spectrum Device Doesn't Work > FCC Says White-Space Spectrum Device Doesn't Work, Techdirt, 8/8/2007 > > A gaggle of tech companies, led by Google and Microsoft, have been pushing > the FCC to open up the "white space" spectrum -- open airwaves in between > those used by TV broadcasts -- for use by electronic devices and broadband > services. http://techdirt.com/articles/20070807/114424.shtml > > > > Frank Muto > FSM Marketing Group, Inc. > www.SecureEmailPlus.com > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses(190). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses(42). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses(84). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] FCC Says White-Space Spectrum Device Doesn't Work
As someone else has asked... what are the fixed wireless companies doing in the white spaces? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Frank Muto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 8:21 PM Subject: [WISPA] FCC Says White-Space Spectrum Device Doesn't Work FCC Says White-Space Spectrum Device Doesn't Work, Techdirt, 8/8/2007 A gaggle of tech companies, led by Google and Microsoft, have been pushing the FCC to open up the "white space" spectrum -- open airwaves in between those used by TV broadcasts -- for use by electronic devices and broadband services. http://techdirt.com/articles/20070807/114424.shtml Frank Muto FSM Marketing Group, Inc. www.SecureEmailPlus.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] FCC Says White-Space Spectrum Device Doesn't Work
FCC Says White-Space Spectrum Device Doesn't Work, Techdirt, 8/8/2007 A gaggle of tech companies, led by Google and Microsoft, have been pushing the FCC to open up the "white space" spectrum -- open airwaves in between those used by TV broadcasts -- for use by electronic devices and broadband services. http://techdirt.com/articles/20070807/114424.shtml Frank Muto FSM Marketing Group, Inc. www.SecureEmailPlus.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
