Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser
So in your described system, does it just use a single VPN link or multiple? I was thinking of your system before this thread came up and I was thinking of each connection having its own VPN back and using OSPF to handle link failures back home with each router having a loopback address everyone talks to. I haven't done anything with any of these, so maybe I'm trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist in your system. I'm looking to attempt to setup something similar, perhaps just as a tech demo, but maybe actually use it for something. Prefer the wireless links, but have a 3G card as backup. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Butch Evans but...@butchevans.com Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 11:56 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser On Sat, 2009-10-17 at 11:05 -0400, Robert West wrote: I got a call Friday afternoon from the police chief of a small little spot in the road asking about the possibility of connecting his cruisers to the station network via a wireless link. I have done this several times. See this blog entry for some basic details on HOW to accomplish it. http://tinyurl.com/3w74jg I am happy to assist with such a network. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser
I got a call Friday afternoon from the police chief of a small little spot in the road asking about the possibility of connecting his cruisers to the station network via a wireless link. (He is the Police Chief but I suspect he is also the entire police force) He said that the local Wal-Mart has agreed to donate to him a few of those little Acer 7 screen laptops, which are a big piece of crap from the number of repairs we've had to do on them... Anyhow, he wants to be able to be in the cruiser and connect to the network back at the station and use the websites from the Attorney General's office where he can run plates, drivers license info and also fill out his reports. Here's the setup.. This Burg is a bit less than 2 miles long and about one and a half miles wide. The town hall is equivalent to a 4 story building and they also have a water tower that looks to be 100 foot tall. The terrain is flat as can be and they have the normal scattering of trees. The Town Hall and water tower are the tallest structures by far aside from a large grain elevator right outside of town. Boy wants to connect to his network anywhere in town from his cop-mobile as well as when he is at home, also within the town. We've done plenty of private networks but it's all been in the 2.4 and 5ghz band. He was thinking he could just throw up a 2.4ghz link and be good but I told him to hold on, I didn't think he could broadcast the Attorney Generals network to every antenna in town, I had to do some research. So this, because of my utterly blatant laziness, is my research. J Has anyone been down this path? What can we do and not do? I have a meeting with the guy next Wednesday and want to have some idea of what we're up against on this one. (Hopefully he doesn't recognize me as the guy who took him to court over a ticket he wrote for a crooked license plate... I won that one by the way) Thanks for any help! Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser
On Sat, 2009-10-17 at 11:05 -0400, Robert West wrote: I got a call Friday afternoon from the police chief of a small little spot in the road asking about the possibility of connecting his cruisers to the station network via a wireless link. I have done this several times. See this blog entry for some basic details on HOW to accomplish it. http://tinyurl.com/3w74jg I am happy to assist with such a network. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser
Thanks, Butch. There is much value in your experience. I'll look it over and will certainly ask some questions if they decide to do this. Thanks again. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 12:56 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser On Sat, 2009-10-17 at 11:05 -0400, Robert West wrote: I got a call Friday afternoon from the police chief of a small little spot in the road asking about the possibility of connecting his cruisers to the station network via a wireless link. I have done this several times. See this blog entry for some basic details on HOW to accomplish it. http://tinyurl.com/3w74jg I am happy to assist with such a network. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser
We currently do this for a local PD. They have 13 of those ruggedized Dell laptops, mounted in all the cars. We looked at 2.4GHz and 900MHz. Even though the town is only 5sqmi, we decided to go with Verizon Aircards. Worked out well, because the laptops are tied directly into their CAD system, which is tied into the whole state. So now they could, theoretically, go anywhere in the state and be dispatched on a call, run plates/people through NCIC, etc. I believe that because of that, they actually got the state to pay for a lot of it. Sure, we don't make anything on the Verizon service, but we do on the backend by tying their CAD into the Internet. Just something to keep in mind, if you have any sort of 3G service in that area. Jayson On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: I got a call Friday afternoon from the police chief of a small little spot in the road asking about the possibility of connecting his cruisers to the station network via a wireless link. (He is the Police Chief but I suspect he is also the entire police force) He said that the local Wal-Mart has agreed to donate to him a few of those little Acer 7 screen laptops, which are a big piece of crap from the number of repairs we've had to do on them... Anyhow, he wants to be able to be in the cruiser and connect to the network back at the station and use the websites from the Attorney General's office where he can run plates, drivers license info and also fill out his reports. Here's the setup.. This Burg is a bit less than 2 miles long and about one and a half miles wide. The town hall is equivalent to a 4 story building and they also have a water tower that looks to be 100 foot tall. The terrain is flat as can be and they have the normal scattering of trees. The Town Hall and water tower are the tallest structures by far aside from a large grain elevator right outside of town. Boy wants to connect to his network anywhere in town from his cop-mobile as well as when he is at home, also within the town. We've done plenty of private networks but it's all been in the 2.4 and 5ghz band. He was thinking he could just throw up a 2.4ghz link and be good but I told him to hold on, I didn't think he could broadcast the Attorney Generals network to every antenna in town, I had to do some research. So this, because of my utterly blatant laziness, is my research. J Has anyone been down this path? What can we do and not do? I have a meeting with the guy next Wednesday and want to have some idea of what we're up against on this one. (Hopefully he doesn't recognize me as the guy who took him to court over a ticket he wrote for a crooked license plate... I won that one by the way) Thanks for any help! Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser
Josh, It kind of depends where you live, just like it does for any 3G service. Where I personally live, ATT's 3G service is excellent. I switched from Verizon and have better coverage and better performance. I'm sure the reverse is true in other areas...but you really cannot legitimately make blanket statements like that when they need coverage in a specific relatively small area. Chuck On Oct 17, 2009, at 1:45 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: I strongly advise avoiding ATT's 3G service. I haven't been impressed at all. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.comwrote: We currently do this for a local PD. They have 13 of those ruggedized Dell laptops, mounted in all the cars. We looked at 2.4GHz and 900MHz. Even though the town is only 5sqmi, we decided to go with Verizon Aircards. Worked out well, because the laptops are tied directly into their CAD system, which is tied into the whole state. So now they could, theoretically, go anywhere in the state and be dispatched on a call, run plates/people through NCIC, etc. I believe that because of that, they actually got the state to pay for a lot of it. Sure, we don't make anything on the Verizon service, but we do on the backend by tying their CAD into the Internet. Just something to keep in mind, if you have any sort of 3G service in that area. Jayson On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I got a call Friday afternoon from the police chief of a small little spot in the road asking about the possibility of connecting his cruisers to the station network via a wireless link. (He is the Police Chief but I suspect he is also the entire police force) He said that the local Wal-Mart has agreed to donate to him a few of those little Acer 7 screen laptops, which are a big piece of crap from the number of repairs we've had to do on them... Anyhow, he wants to be able to be in the cruiser and connect to the network back at the station and use the websites from the Attorney General's office where he can run plates, drivers license info and also fill out his reports. Here's the setup.. This Burg is a bit less than 2 miles long and about one and a half miles wide. The town hall is equivalent to a 4 story building and they also have a water tower that looks to be 100 foot tall. The terrain is flat as can be and they have the normal scattering of trees. The Town Hall and water tower are the tallest structures by far aside from a large grain elevator right outside of town. Boy wants to connect to his network anywhere in town from his cop-mobile as well as when he is at home, also within the town. We've done plenty of private networks but it's all been in the 2.4 and 5ghz band. He was thinking he could just throw up a 2.4ghz link and be good but I told him to hold on, I didn't think he could broadcast the Attorney Generals network to every antenna in town, I had to do some research. So this, because of my utterly blatant laziness, is my research. J Has anyone been down this path? What can we do and not do? I have a meeting with the guy next Wednesday and want to have some idea of what we're up against on this one. (Hopefully he doesn't recognize me as the guy who took him to court over a ticket he wrote for a crooked license plate... I won that one by the way) Thanks for any help! Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser
West Bend Wisconson St Louis MO Chicago IL Top Sail Beach NC All the way up and down I75 in Ohio Not one of these places has a solid ATT 3G service. Neither using the PC Express Card nor the integrated Sierra modem. I have had what I consider bad service all around, which is why I said what I did. Not saying it will be bad, but I would avoid it. You have had the opposite experience, so you said what you said. Just voicing my experience and my opinion... Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 2:08 PM, Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.comwrote: Josh, It kind of depends where you live, just like it does for any 3G service. Where I personally live, ATT's 3G service is excellent. I switched from Verizon and have better coverage and better performance. I'm sure the reverse is true in other areas...but you really cannot legitimately make blanket statements like that when they need coverage in a specific relatively small area. Chuck On Oct 17, 2009, at 1:45 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: I strongly advise avoiding ATT's 3G service. I haven't been impressed at all. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.comwrote: We currently do this for a local PD. They have 13 of those ruggedized Dell laptops, mounted in all the cars. We looked at 2.4GHz and 900MHz. Even though the town is only 5sqmi, we decided to go with Verizon Aircards. Worked out well, because the laptops are tied directly into their CAD system, which is tied into the whole state. So now they could, theoretically, go anywhere in the state and be dispatched on a call, run plates/people through NCIC, etc. I believe that because of that, they actually got the state to pay for a lot of it. Sure, we don't make anything on the Verizon service, but we do on the backend by tying their CAD into the Internet. Just something to keep in mind, if you have any sort of 3G service in that area. Jayson On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I got a call Friday afternoon from the police chief of a small little spot in the road asking about the possibility of connecting his cruisers to the station network via a wireless link. (He is the Police Chief but I suspect he is also the entire police force) He said that the local Wal-Mart has agreed to donate to him a few of those little Acer 7 screen laptops, which are a big piece of crap from the number of repairs we've had to do on them... Anyhow, he wants to be able to be in the cruiser and connect to the network back at the station and use the websites from the Attorney General's office where he can run plates, drivers license info and also fill out his reports. Here's the setup.. This Burg is a bit less than 2 miles long and about one and a half miles wide. The town hall is equivalent to a 4 story building and they also have a water tower that looks to be 100 foot tall. The terrain is flat as can be and they have the normal scattering of trees. The Town Hall and water tower are the tallest structures by far aside from a large grain elevator right outside of town. Boy wants to connect to his network anywhere in town from his cop-mobile as well as when he is at home, also within the town. We've done plenty of private networks but it's all been in the 2.4 and 5ghz band. He was thinking he could just throw up a 2.4ghz link and be good but I told him to hold on, I didn't think he could broadcast the Attorney Generals network to every antenna in town, I had to do some research. So this, because of my utterly blatant laziness, is my research. J Has anyone been down this path? What can we do and not do? I have a meeting with the guy next Wednesday and want to have some idea of what we're up against on this one. (Hopefully he doesn't recognize me as the guy who took him to court over a ticket he wrote for a crooked license plate... I won that one by the way) Thanks for any help! Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger!
Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser
Who makes 4.9 gear and what would you need in the police cruiser? On 10/17/09, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.com wrote: I myself would look into 4.9 or other licensed spectrum. Then you could have gear on one tower and service the whole area... Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 1:46 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station toCruiser IMHO, the only way to do something like this where the office is mobile is with cellular service (although he will need to VPN back to the Police HQ) or to use a Mesh network designed for mobility (since 802.11G tends to fall apart past 30MPH or so). Unless this city want's to make a major investment in Mesh... I'd tell him to stick with the cellular air cards (Verizon, ATT, whatever) and be done with it. Hacking together a solution is probably more effort than its worth, and there could be theoretical consequences if the network doesn't operate correctly. I'm still nowhere close to being able to offload this... but down the pipe I know of a city that is replacing their MOTOMESH Solo network with MOTOMESH Duo... so those nodes would probably be cheap... and it allows the cop cards to go up to 144MPH in the Mesh and still stay connected (its actually really cool technology developed for the US Military... but the most it can do is T1 speeds) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 9:05 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser I got a call Friday afternoon from the police chief of a small little spot in the road asking about the possibility of connecting his cruisers to the station network via a wireless link. (He is the Police Chief but I suspect he is also the entire police force) He said that the local Wal- Mart has agreed to donate to him a few of those little Acer 7 screen laptops, which are a big piece of crap from the number of repairs we've had to do on them... Anyhow, he wants to be able to be in the cruiser and connect to the network back at the station and use the websites from the Attorney General's office where he can run plates, drivers license info and also fill out his reports. Here's the setup.. This Burg is a bit less than 2 miles long and about one and a half miles wide. The town hall is equivalent to a 4 story building and they also have a water tower that looks to be 100 foot tall. The terrain is flat as can be and they have the normal scattering of trees. The Town Hall and water tower are the tallest structures by far aside from a large grain elevator right outside of town. Boy wants to connect to his network anywhere in town from his cop-mobile as well as when he is at home, also within the town. We've done plenty of private networks but it's all been in the 2.4 and 5ghz band. He was thinking he could just throw up a 2.4ghz link and be good but I told him to hold on, I didn't think he could broadcast the Attorney Generals network to every antenna in town, I had to do some research. So this, because of my utterly blatant laziness, is my research. J Has anyone been down this path? What can we do and not do? I have a meeting with the guy next Wednesday and want to have some idea of what we're up against on this one. (Hopefully he doesn't recognize me as the guy who took him to court over a ticket he wrote for a crooked license plate... I won that one by the way) Thanks for any help! Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA
Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser
What type of 4.9GHz gear... point to point, point to multipoint, mesh? Motorola makes 4.9GHz gear for all of those applications... Proxim has it for point to point and point to multipoint... I think Firetide has 4.9GHz Mesh... Redline has a point to point radio I believe... Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 12:25 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser Who makes 4.9 gear and what would you need in the police cruiser? On 10/17/09, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.com wrote: I myself would look into 4.9 or other licensed spectrum. Then you could have gear on one tower and service the whole area... Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 1:46 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station toCruiser IMHO, the only way to do something like this where the office is mobile is with cellular service (although he will need to VPN back to the Police HQ) or to use a Mesh network designed for mobility (since 802.11G tends to fall apart past 30MPH or so). Unless this city want's to make a major investment in Mesh... I'd tell him to stick with the cellular air cards (Verizon, ATT, whatever) and be done with it. Hacking together a solution is probably more effort than its worth, and there could be theoretical consequences if the network doesn't operate correctly. I'm still nowhere close to being able to offload this... but down the pipe I know of a city that is replacing their MOTOMESH Solo network with MOTOMESH Duo... so those nodes would probably be cheap... and it allows the cop cards to go up to 144MPH in the Mesh and still stay connected (its actually really cool technology developed for the US Military... but the most it can do is T1 speeds) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 9:05 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser I got a call Friday afternoon from the police chief of a small little spot in the road asking about the possibility of connecting his cruisers to the station network via a wireless link. (He is the Police Chief but I suspect he is also the entire police force) He said that the local Wal- Mart has agreed to donate to him a few of those little Acer 7 screen laptops, which are a big piece of crap from the number of repairs we've had to do on them... Anyhow, he wants to be able to be in the cruiser and connect to the network back at the station and use the websites from the Attorney General's office where he can run plates, drivers license info and also fill out his reports. Here's the setup.. This Burg is a bit less than 2 miles long and about one and a half miles wide. The town hall is equivalent to a 4 story building and they also have a water tower that looks to be 100 foot tall. The terrain is flat as can be and they have the normal scattering of trees. The Town Hall and water tower are the tallest structures by far aside from a large grain elevator right outside of town. Boy wants to connect to his network anywhere in town from his cop-mobile as well as when he is at home, also within the town. We've done plenty of private networks but it's all been in the 2.4 and 5ghz band. He was thinking he could just throw up a 2.4ghz link and be good but I told him to hold on, I didn't think he could broadcast the Attorney Generals network to every antenna in town, I had to do some research. So this, because of my utterly blatant laziness, is my research. J Has anyone been down this path? What can we do and not do? I have a meeting with the guy next Wednesday and want to have some idea of what we're up against on this one. (Hopefully he doesn't recognize me as the guy who took him to court over a ticket he wrote for a crooked license plate... I won that one by the way) Thanks for any help! Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail
Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser
What about the air card? I would assume that the aircard service fee isn't being paid by the state? That would be the ideal situation but this town Very political. I know there would be a fight over who had access to it and when and anything else they could fight over. But I;; write that down as an option to go over with them. One never knows. Ruggedized dells.. A far cry from this nasty Acer laptops from Wal-Mart. But they are worth the price they are paying for them, free. Thanks for the idea. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jayson Baker Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 1:37 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser We currently do this for a local PD. They have 13 of those ruggedized Dell laptops, mounted in all the cars. We looked at 2.4GHz and 900MHz. Even though the town is only 5sqmi, we decided to go with Verizon Aircards. Worked out well, because the laptops are tied directly into their CAD system, which is tied into the whole state. So now they could, theoretically, go anywhere in the state and be dispatched on a call, run plates/people through NCIC, etc. I believe that because of that, they actually got the state to pay for a lot of it. Sure, we don't make anything on the Verizon service, but we do on the backend by tying their CAD into the Internet. Just something to keep in mind, if you have any sort of 3G service in that area. Jayson On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: I got a call Friday afternoon from the police chief of a small little spot in the road asking about the possibility of connecting his cruisers to the station network via a wireless link. (He is the Police Chief but I suspect he is also the entire police force) He said that the local Wal-Mart has agreed to donate to him a few of those little Acer 7 screen laptops, which are a big piece of crap from the number of repairs we've had to do on them... Anyhow, he wants to be able to be in the cruiser and connect to the network back at the station and use the websites from the Attorney General's office where he can run plates, drivers license info and also fill out his reports. Here's the setup.. This Burg is a bit less than 2 miles long and about one and a half miles wide. The town hall is equivalent to a 4 story building and they also have a water tower that looks to be 100 foot tall. The terrain is flat as can be and they have the normal scattering of trees. The Town Hall and water tower are the tallest structures by far aside from a large grain elevator right outside of town. Boy wants to connect to his network anywhere in town from his cop-mobile as well as when he is at home, also within the town. We've done plenty of private networks but it's all been in the 2.4 and 5ghz band. He was thinking he could just throw up a 2.4ghz link and be good but I told him to hold on, I didn't think he could broadcast the Attorney Generals network to every antenna in town, I had to do some research. So this, because of my utterly blatant laziness, is my research. J Has anyone been down this path? What can we do and not do? I have a meeting with the guy next Wednesday and want to have some idea of what we're up against on this one. (Hopefully he doesn't recognize me as the guy who took him to court over a ticket he wrote for a crooked license plate... I won that one by the way) Thanks for any help! Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser
Then you should sue them for a violation of your god given broadband rights as a human being! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 1:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser I strongly advise avoiding ATT's 3G service. I haven't been impressed at all. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.comwrote: We currently do this for a local PD. They have 13 of those ruggedized Dell laptops, mounted in all the cars. We looked at 2.4GHz and 900MHz. Even though the town is only 5sqmi, we decided to go with Verizon Aircards. Worked out well, because the laptops are tied directly into their CAD system, which is tied into the whole state. So now they could, theoretically, go anywhere in the state and be dispatched on a call, run plates/people through NCIC, etc. I believe that because of that, they actually got the state to pay for a lot of it. Sure, we don't make anything on the Verizon service, but we do on the backend by tying their CAD into the Internet. Just something to keep in mind, if you have any sort of 3G service in that area. Jayson On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I got a call Friday afternoon from the police chief of a small little spot in the road asking about the possibility of connecting his cruisers to the station network via a wireless link. (He is the Police Chief but I suspect he is also the entire police force) He said that the local Wal-Mart has agreed to donate to him a few of those little Acer 7 screen laptops, which are a big piece of crap from the number of repairs we've had to do on them... Anyhow, he wants to be able to be in the cruiser and connect to the network back at the station and use the websites from the Attorney General's office where he can run plates, drivers license info and also fill out his reports. Here's the setup.. This Burg is a bit less than 2 miles long and about one and a half miles wide. The town hall is equivalent to a 4 story building and they also have a water tower that looks to be 100 foot tall. The terrain is flat as can be and they have the normal scattering of trees. The Town Hall and water tower are the tallest structures by far aside from a large grain elevator right outside of town. Boy wants to connect to his network anywhere in town from his cop-mobile as well as when he is at home, also within the town. We've done plenty of private networks but it's all been in the 2.4 and 5ghz band. He was thinking he could just throw up a 2.4ghz link and be good but I told him to hold on, I didn't think he could broadcast the Attorney Generals network to every antenna in town, I had to do some research. So this, because of my utterly blatant laziness, is my research. J Has anyone been down this path? What can we do and not do? I have a meeting with the guy next Wednesday and want to have some idea of what we're up against on this one. (Hopefully he doesn't recognize me as the guy who took him to court over a ticket he wrote for a crooked license plate... I won that one by the way) Thanks for any help! Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser
So the cops could be watching You Porn while driving at 144mph? That's a very good selling point that could sway some departments. I personally like the Cellular option. The infrastructure is already in place for the most part, just tie into office system with a VPN and a firewall and they should be good. The bonus would be having an internal card in the machine instead of the USB deal. It all comes down to money for the monthly fee, I bet. The biggest plus on that I see is if they transport a prisoner, which they have to do since they have no jail (Thank god!) and they have to go 15 miles away to the sheriff's department. So, this would be my pick after all if the politics turn out to be good, an internal card in the laptop would make that an easier sell. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of 3-dB Networks Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 1:46 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser IMHO, the only way to do something like this where the office is mobile is with cellular service (although he will need to VPN back to the Police HQ) or to use a Mesh network designed for mobility (since 802.11G tends to fall apart past 30MPH or so). Unless this city want's to make a major investment in Mesh... I'd tell him to stick with the cellular air cards (Verizon, ATT, whatever) and be done with it. Hacking together a solution is probably more effort than its worth, and there could be theoretical consequences if the network doesn't operate correctly. I'm still nowhere close to being able to offload this... but down the pipe I know of a city that is replacing their MOTOMESH Solo network with MOTOMESH Duo... so those nodes would probably be cheap... and it allows the cop cards to go up to 144MPH in the Mesh and still stay connected (its actually really cool technology developed for the US Military... but the most it can do is T1 speeds) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 9:05 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser I got a call Friday afternoon from the police chief of a small little spot in the road asking about the possibility of connecting his cruisers to the station network via a wireless link. (He is the Police Chief but I suspect he is also the entire police force) He said that the local Wal- Mart has agreed to donate to him a few of those little Acer 7 screen laptops, which are a big piece of crap from the number of repairs we've had to do on them... Anyhow, he wants to be able to be in the cruiser and connect to the network back at the station and use the websites from the Attorney General's office where he can run plates, drivers license info and also fill out his reports. Here's the setup.. This Burg is a bit less than 2 miles long and about one and a half miles wide. The town hall is equivalent to a 4 story building and they also have a water tower that looks to be 100 foot tall. The terrain is flat as can be and they have the normal scattering of trees. The Town Hall and water tower are the tallest structures by far aside from a large grain elevator right outside of town. Boy wants to connect to his network anywhere in town from his cop-mobile as well as when he is at home, also within the town. We've done plenty of private networks but it's all been in the 2.4 and 5ghz band. He was thinking he could just throw up a 2.4ghz link and be good but I told him to hold on, I didn't think he could broadcast the Attorney Generals network to every antenna in town, I had to do some research. So this, because of my utterly blatant laziness, is my research. J Has anyone been down this path? What can we do and not do? I have a meeting with the guy next Wednesday and want to have some idea of what we're up against on this one. (Hopefully he doesn't recognize me as the guy who took him to court over a ticket he wrote for a crooked license plate... I won that one by the way) Thanks for any help! Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless
Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser
On Sat, 2009-10-17 at 11:45 -0600, 3-dB Networks wrote: IMHO, the only way to do something like this where the office is mobile is with cellular service I have done this MANY times without cellular and without mesh. Cellular is too expensive and WAY too slow to be really very useful. Mesh is simply not needed for what MOST of them need. or to use a Mesh network designed for mobility (since 802.11G tends to fall apart past 30MPH or so). You are thinking that an officer of the law is gonna be using the network while driving at 30MPH+? If their need is to have it working that way, then I would agree that it may be necessary to increase coverage. Unless this city want's to make a major investment in Mesh... I'd tell him to stick with the cellular air cards (Verizon, ATT, whatever) and be done with it. In some cases, these networks have been paid for with Homeland Security $$. No cost to the city. Hacking together a solution is probably more effort than its worth, and there could be theoretical consequences if the network doesn't operate correctly. Of course. It's all about explaining benefits and pitfalls. Once the network needs are known (which they are not at this point), THEN a solution is devised. For what it's worth, the second time I did this type of network, we watched a LIVE streaming video from one cop car as it drove all over town without more than a 1 second hiccup (which happened 2 times). Additionally, he was talking to us via an 802.11g wireless voip phone and NEVER lost the call. This was using a mixture of 2.4GHz 802.11b, 802.11g and 900MHz (Mikrotik 802.11a I think), if you're interested. Not too bad for not having purchased, or even considered Moto. I think to dismiss a technology outright before understanding what good engineering can do is pretty short sighted. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser
I agree 100% that cellular is the best option for case like this :-D But if you need watch Youporn while flying in an Apache helicopter... Motorola has an app for that :-D Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 12:54 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser So the cops could be watching You Porn while driving at 144mph? That's a very good selling point that could sway some departments. I personally like the Cellular option. The infrastructure is already in place for the most part, just tie into office system with a VPN and a firewall and they should be good. The bonus would be having an internal card in the machine instead of the USB deal. It all comes down to money for the monthly fee, I bet. The biggest plus on that I see is if they transport a prisoner, which they have to do since they have no jail (Thank god!) and they have to go 15 miles away to the sheriff's department. So, this would be my pick after all if the politics turn out to be good, an internal card in the laptop would make that an easier sell. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of 3-dB Networks Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 1:46 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser IMHO, the only way to do something like this where the office is mobile is with cellular service (although he will need to VPN back to the Police HQ) or to use a Mesh network designed for mobility (since 802.11G tends to fall apart past 30MPH or so). Unless this city want's to make a major investment in Mesh... I'd tell him to stick with the cellular air cards (Verizon, ATT, whatever) and be done with it. Hacking together a solution is probably more effort than its worth, and there could be theoretical consequences if the network doesn't operate correctly. I'm still nowhere close to being able to offload this... but down the pipe I know of a city that is replacing their MOTOMESH Solo network with MOTOMESH Duo... so those nodes would probably be cheap... and it allows the cop cards to go up to 144MPH in the Mesh and still stay connected (its actually really cool technology developed for the US Military... but the most it can do is T1 speeds) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 9:05 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser I got a call Friday afternoon from the police chief of a small little spot in the road asking about the possibility of connecting his cruisers to the station network via a wireless link. (He is the Police Chief but I suspect he is also the entire police force) He said that the local Wal- Mart has agreed to donate to him a few of those little Acer 7 screen laptops, which are a big piece of crap from the number of repairs we've had to do on them... Anyhow, he wants to be able to be in the cruiser and connect to the network back at the station and use the websites from the Attorney General's office where he can run plates, drivers license info and also fill out his reports. Here's the setup.. This Burg is a bit less than 2 miles long and about one and a half miles wide. The town hall is equivalent to a 4 story building and they also have a water tower that looks to be 100 foot tall. The terrain is flat as can be and they have the normal scattering of trees. The Town Hall and water tower are the tallest structures by far aside from a large grain elevator right outside of town. Boy wants to connect to his network anywhere in town from his cop-mobile as well as when he is at home, also within the town. We've done plenty of private networks but it's all been in the 2.4 and 5ghz band. He was thinking he could just throw up a 2.4ghz link and be good but I told him to hold on, I didn't think he could broadcast the Attorney Generals network to every antenna in town, I had to do some research. So this, because of my utterly blatant laziness, is my research. J Has anyone been down this path? What can we do and not do? I have a meeting with the guy next Wednesday and want to have some idea of what we're up against on this one. (Hopefully he doesn't recognize me as the guy who took him to court over a ticket he wrote for a crooked license plate... I won that one by the way) Thanks for any help! Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser
In my area, South Central Ohio, Verizon, Sprint, ATT all have issues. The latency is all over the place and the ul/dl speeds are inconsistent over the span of even 5 minutes. I have a customer who we were trying to hook up to her office in town from her home in BFE via VPN but it was miserable. Both Sprint and Verizon gave her fits. She was supposed to have a 2mb download and 1mb upload and it was running between 512 and 768 most of the time and it was pinging in the 200 range. Nasty, nasty, nasty. But of course near a better populated place, it would fly. Love that 3G network! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 2:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser West Bend Wisconson St Louis MO Chicago IL Top Sail Beach NC All the way up and down I75 in Ohio Not one of these places has a solid ATT 3G service. Neither using the PC Express Card nor the integrated Sierra modem. I have had what I consider bad service all around, which is why I said what I did. Not saying it will be bad, but I would avoid it. You have had the opposite experience, so you said what you said. Just voicing my experience and my opinion... Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 2:08 PM, Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.comwrote: Josh, It kind of depends where you live, just like it does for any 3G service. Where I personally live, ATT's 3G service is excellent. I switched from Verizon and have better coverage and better performance. I'm sure the reverse is true in other areas...but you really cannot legitimately make blanket statements like that when they need coverage in a specific relatively small area. Chuck On Oct 17, 2009, at 1:45 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: I strongly advise avoiding ATT's 3G service. I haven't been impressed at all. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.comwrote: We currently do this for a local PD. They have 13 of those ruggedized Dell laptops, mounted in all the cars. We looked at 2.4GHz and 900MHz. Even though the town is only 5sqmi, we decided to go with Verizon Aircards. Worked out well, because the laptops are tied directly into their CAD system, which is tied into the whole state. So now they could, theoretically, go anywhere in the state and be dispatched on a call, run plates/people through NCIC, etc. I believe that because of that, they actually got the state to pay for a lot of it. Sure, we don't make anything on the Verizon service, but we do on the backend by tying their CAD into the Internet. Just something to keep in mind, if you have any sort of 3G service in that area. Jayson On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I got a call Friday afternoon from the police chief of a small little spot in the road asking about the possibility of connecting his cruisers to the station network via a wireless link. (He is the Police Chief but I suspect he is also the entire police force) He said that the local Wal-Mart has agreed to donate to him a few of those little Acer 7 screen laptops, which are a big piece of crap from the number of repairs we've had to do on them... Anyhow, he wants to be able to be in the cruiser and connect to the network back at the station and use the websites from the Attorney General's office where he can run plates, drivers license info and also fill out his reports. Here's the setup.. This Burg is a bit less than 2 miles long and about one and a half miles wide. The town hall is equivalent to a 4 story building and they also have a water tower that looks to be 100 foot tall. The terrain is flat as can be and they have the normal scattering of trees. The Town Hall and water tower are the tallest structures by far aside from a large grain elevator right outside of town. Boy wants to connect to his network anywhere in town from his cop-mobile as well as when he is at home, also within the town. We've done plenty of private networks but it's all been in the 2.4 and 5ghz band. He was thinking he could just throw up a 2.4ghz link and be good but I told him to hold on, I didn't think he could broadcast the Attorney Generals network to every antenna in town
Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser
Aren't there frequencies set aside for law enforcement and other safety services? Hey, I'm a freebie kinds dude, the licensed thing has been what the other people with cash use. However, if they have their own spectrum why not use it? If 4.9 Safety Services? I could look it up but hey, you know -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 2:25 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser Who makes 4.9 gear and what would you need in the police cruiser? On 10/17/09, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.com wrote: I myself would look into 4.9 or other licensed spectrum. Then you could have gear on one tower and service the whole area... Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: 3-dB Networks wi...@3-db.net Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 1:46 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station toCruiser IMHO, the only way to do something like this where the office is mobile is with cellular service (although he will need to VPN back to the Police HQ) or to use a Mesh network designed for mobility (since 802.11G tends to fall apart past 30MPH or so). Unless this city want's to make a major investment in Mesh... I'd tell him to stick with the cellular air cards (Verizon, ATT, whatever) and be done with it. Hacking together a solution is probably more effort than its worth, and there could be theoretical consequences if the network doesn't operate correctly. I'm still nowhere close to being able to offload this... but down the pipe I know of a city that is replacing their MOTOMESH Solo network with MOTOMESH Duo... so those nodes would probably be cheap... and it allows the cop cards to go up to 144MPH in the Mesh and still stay connected (its actually really cool technology developed for the US Military... but the most it can do is T1 speeds) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 9:05 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser I got a call Friday afternoon from the police chief of a small little spot in the road asking about the possibility of connecting his cruisers to the station network via a wireless link. (He is the Police Chief but I suspect he is also the entire police force) He said that the local Wal- Mart has agreed to donate to him a few of those little Acer 7 screen laptops, which are a big piece of crap from the number of repairs we've had to do on them... Anyhow, he wants to be able to be in the cruiser and connect to the network back at the station and use the websites from the Attorney General's office where he can run plates, drivers license info and also fill out his reports. Here's the setup.. This Burg is a bit less than 2 miles long and about one and a half miles wide. The town hall is equivalent to a 4 story building and they also have a water tower that looks to be 100 foot tall. The terrain is flat as can be and they have the normal scattering of trees. The Town Hall and water tower are the tallest structures by far aside from a large grain elevator right outside of town. Boy wants to connect to his network anywhere in town from his cop-mobile as well as when he is at home, also within the town. We've done plenty of private networks but it's all been in the 2.4 and 5ghz band. He was thinking he could just throw up a 2.4ghz link and be good but I told him to hold on, I didn't think he could broadcast the Attorney Generals network to every antenna in town, I had to do some research. So this, because of my utterly blatant laziness, is my research. J Has anyone been down this path? What can we do and not do? I have a meeting with the guy next Wednesday and want to have some idea of what we're up against on this one. (Hopefully he doesn't recognize me as the guy who took him to court over a ticket he wrote for a crooked license plate... I won that one by the way) Thanks for any help! Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser
They do? Oh, man, it's a $2.99 download fee from Verizon. Forget that. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of 3-dB Networks Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 3:03 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser I agree 100% that cellular is the best option for case like this :-D But if you need watch Youporn while flying in an Apache helicopter... Motorola has an app for that :-D Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 12:54 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser So the cops could be watching You Porn while driving at 144mph? That's a very good selling point that could sway some departments. I personally like the Cellular option. The infrastructure is already in place for the most part, just tie into office system with a VPN and a firewall and they should be good. The bonus would be having an internal card in the machine instead of the USB deal. It all comes down to money for the monthly fee, I bet. The biggest plus on that I see is if they transport a prisoner, which they have to do since they have no jail (Thank god!) and they have to go 15 miles away to the sheriff's department. So, this would be my pick after all if the politics turn out to be good, an internal card in the laptop would make that an easier sell. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of 3-dB Networks Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 1:46 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser IMHO, the only way to do something like this where the office is mobile is with cellular service (although he will need to VPN back to the Police HQ) or to use a Mesh network designed for mobility (since 802.11G tends to fall apart past 30MPH or so). Unless this city want's to make a major investment in Mesh... I'd tell him to stick with the cellular air cards (Verizon, ATT, whatever) and be done with it. Hacking together a solution is probably more effort than its worth, and there could be theoretical consequences if the network doesn't operate correctly. I'm still nowhere close to being able to offload this... but down the pipe I know of a city that is replacing their MOTOMESH Solo network with MOTOMESH Duo... so those nodes would probably be cheap... and it allows the cop cards to go up to 144MPH in the Mesh and still stay connected (its actually really cool technology developed for the US Military... but the most it can do is T1 speeds) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 9:05 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser I got a call Friday afternoon from the police chief of a small little spot in the road asking about the possibility of connecting his cruisers to the station network via a wireless link. (He is the Police Chief but I suspect he is also the entire police force) He said that the local Wal- Mart has agreed to donate to him a few of those little Acer 7 screen laptops, which are a big piece of crap from the number of repairs we've had to do on them... Anyhow, he wants to be able to be in the cruiser and connect to the network back at the station and use the websites from the Attorney General's office where he can run plates, drivers license info and also fill out his reports. Here's the setup.. This Burg is a bit less than 2 miles long and about one and a half miles wide. The town hall is equivalent to a 4 story building and they also have a water tower that looks to be 100 foot tall. The terrain is flat as can be and they have the normal scattering of trees. The Town Hall and water tower are the tallest structures by far aside from a large grain elevator right outside of town. Boy wants to connect to his network anywhere in town from his cop-mobile as well as when he is at home, also within the town. We've done plenty of private networks but it's all been in the 2.4 and 5ghz band. He was thinking he could just throw up a 2.4ghz link and be good but I told him to hold on, I didn't think he could broadcast the Attorney Generals network to every antenna in town, I had to do some research. So this, because of my utterly blatant laziness, is my research. J Has anyone been down this path? What can we do and not do? I have a meeting with the guy next Wednesday and want to have some idea of what we're up against on this one. (Hopefully he doesn't
Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser
On Sat, 2009-10-17 at 15:39 -0400, Robert West wrote: You were watching live streaming video from the cruiser? That's impressive, for sure. While their plan wasn't to build a system where live streaming from every car was a requirement, that is how we chose to demonstrate the successful build. Thanks again, Butch. You're welcome. For what it's worth, I am not suggesting that the other ideas (cellular or canopy mesh) are bad. I only wanted to dispel the myth that is HAS to be that way. Hey any way of putting an IP activated switch on the lights and siren just to mess with the guy from time to time? Well..I am sure one of those remote power switches could be a lot of fun. :-) -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser
And from there, all the way south down I-75 into Florida... On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com wrote: West Bend Wisconson St Louis MO Chicago IL Top Sail Beach NC All the way up and down I75 in Ohio Not one of these places has a solid ATT 3G service. Neither using the PC Express Card nor the integrated Sierra modem. I have had what I consider bad service all around, which is why I said what I did. Not saying it will be bad, but I would avoid it. You have had the opposite experience, so you said what you said. Just voicing my experience and my opinion... Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 2:08 PM, Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.comwrote: Josh, It kind of depends where you live, just like it does for any 3G service. Where I personally live, ATT's 3G service is excellent. I switched from Verizon and have better coverage and better performance. I'm sure the reverse is true in other areas...but you really cannot legitimately make blanket statements like that when they need coverage in a specific relatively small area. Chuck On Oct 17, 2009, at 1:45 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: I strongly advise avoiding ATT's 3G service. I haven't been impressed at all. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.comwrote: We currently do this for a local PD. They have 13 of those ruggedized Dell laptops, mounted in all the cars. We looked at 2.4GHz and 900MHz. Even though the town is only 5sqmi, we decided to go with Verizon Aircards. Worked out well, because the laptops are tied directly into their CAD system, which is tied into the whole state. So now they could, theoretically, go anywhere in the state and be dispatched on a call, run plates/people through NCIC, etc. I believe that because of that, they actually got the state to pay for a lot of it. Sure, we don't make anything on the Verizon service, but we do on the backend by tying their CAD into the Internet. Just something to keep in mind, if you have any sort of 3G service in that area. Jayson On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: I got a call Friday afternoon from the police chief of a small little spot in the road asking about the possibility of connecting his cruisers to the station network via a wireless link. (He is the Police Chief but I suspect he is also the entire police force) He said that the local Wal-Mart has agreed to donate to him a few of those little Acer 7 screen laptops, which are a big piece of crap from the number of repairs we've had to do on them... Anyhow, he wants to be able to be in the cruiser and connect to the network back at the station and use the websites from the Attorney General's office where he can run plates, drivers license info and also fill out his reports. Here's the setup.. This Burg is a bit less than 2 miles long and about one and a half miles wide. The town hall is equivalent to a 4 story building and they also have a water tower that looks to be 100 foot tall. The terrain is flat as can be and they have the normal scattering of trees. The Town Hall and water tower are the tallest structures by far aside from a large grain elevator right outside of town. Boy wants to connect to his network anywhere in town from his cop-mobile as well as when he is at home, also within the town. We've done plenty of private networks but it's all been in the 2.4 and 5ghz band. He was thinking he could just throw up a 2.4ghz link and be good but I told him to hold on, I didn't think he could broadcast the Attorney Generals network to every antenna in town, I had to do some research. So this, because of my utterly blatant laziness, is my research. J Has anyone been down this path? What can we do and not do? I have a meeting with the guy next Wednesday and want to have some idea of what we're up against on this one. (Hopefully he doesn't recognize me as the guy who took him to court over a ticket he wrote for a crooked license plate... I won that one by the way) Thanks for any help! Robert West Just Micro Digital Services Inc. 740-335-7020 -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their
Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser
Butch, Cellular isn't that expensive when you're talking a few cars... if you're talking 30 patrol cars... I agree it's expensive. Heck, if the city has a ton of cell phones already they might be able to get the service free. I've heard of cities getting aircard equipment to do network monitoring type work at night when the network was offloaded for pennies a month. I agree that Mesh is way beyond what most departments need. Many police departments have two officers in their cars... so the second officer needs to be able to work on the laptop on the way to a call etc. Probably not a requirement here since it's a small town... but for instance one city I am working with now wants to be able to watch streaming video from security cameras while driving up to 75MPH... that's hard to do without a Mesh IMO. Also, I doubt that Homeland Security is paying for anything here or they wouldn't be hitting up Walmart for free laptops :-D For your last part... you didn't explain what you did for your network. What equipment was used, how it was configured, etc. I would suspect you ended up working around the 802.11 protocol to handle the roaming hand-offs better. It might not be a true mesh (meaning you have actual nodes meshing), but something similar must be done (more AP's than point to multipoint service to account for worse link budgets from omni's and typically NLOS shots). Generally it's also best to have the AP's below the trees... also kinda lends itself to a mesh. With that said... I'm not advocating any manufactures product here (I just happen to be the most familiar with Motorola's)... but if I was to build out a Mesh network, and mobility was required, I'd choose something that was designed for it and proven for it. Heck I'm really advocating air cards here... I've got no stake in that but realistically is probably the cheapest and best option for this police department assuming that there is decent 3G service there. Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 12:55 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser On Sat, 2009-10-17 at 11:45 -0600, 3-dB Networks wrote: IMHO, the only way to do something like this where the office is mobile is with cellular service I have done this MANY times without cellular and without mesh. Cellular is too expensive and WAY too slow to be really very useful. Mesh is simply not needed for what MOST of them need. or to use a Mesh network designed for mobility (since 802.11G tends to fall apart past 30MPH or so). You are thinking that an officer of the law is gonna be using the network while driving at 30MPH+? If their need is to have it working that way, then I would agree that it may be necessary to increase coverage. Unless this city want's to make a major investment in Mesh... I'd tell him to stick with the cellular air cards (Verizon, ATT, whatever) and be done with it. In some cases, these networks have been paid for with Homeland Security $$. No cost to the city. Hacking together a solution is probably more effort than its worth, and there could be theoretical consequences if the network doesn't operate correctly. Of course. It's all about explaining benefits and pitfalls. Once the network needs are known (which they are not at this point), THEN a solution is devised. For what it's worth, the second time I did this type of network, we watched a LIVE streaming video from one cop car as it drove all over town without more than a 1 second hiccup (which happened 2 times). Additionally, he was talking to us via an 802.11g wireless voip phone and NEVER lost the call. This was using a mixture of 2.4GHz 802.11b, 802.11g and 900MHz (Mikrotik 802.11a I think), if you're interested. Not too bad for not having purchased, or even considered Moto. I think to dismiss a technology outright before understanding what good engineering can do is pretty short sighted. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Ideas on Police Department Wireless Link from Station to Cruiser
On Sat, 2009-10-17 at 20:04 -0600, 3-dB Networks wrote: but for instance one city I am working with now wants to be able to watch streaming video from security cameras while driving up to 75MPH... that's hard to do without a Mesh IMO. Maybe hard..but not impossible. Is my solution better? Hard to say. I'd be hard pressed to say outright that the mesh solution is better, though. FWIW, my solution would work fine if the infrastructure WERE a mesh, but it does not require it. I'd suggest reading through the blog post I made that details some of the obstacles that this type of network has to overcome. I have built this solution with MT CPE (in the cars), but it can be done with nearly ANY CPE that can be made smart with a script. I have been playing with ImageStream devices as the router connected via ethernet to multiple radios and am nearly able to do the same thing with ImageStream (which means virtually ANY Linux device can do it). The brains in my solution resides in the CPE, and not the network. Also, I doubt that Homeland Security is paying for anything here or they wouldn't be hitting up Walmart for free laptops :-D Probably correct. The reason they are not likely to get homeland security dollars is more because they don't know and didn't ask. Last year, there were more $$ budgeted than were given out. For your last part... you didn't explain what you did for your network. What equipment was used, how it was configured, etc. I would suspect you ended up working around the 802.11 protocol to handle the roaming hand-offs better. It's explained in the blog post. It might not be a true mesh (meaning you have actual nodes meshing), but something similar must be done (more AP's than point to multipoint service to account for worse link budgets from omni's and typically NLOS shots). Generally it's also best to have the AP's below the trees... also kinda lends itself to a mesh. You're on the right path, but not quite there. The mesh in my case was a fully routed network. My method offers some significant advantages over a simple meshed network, however. As I said, the brains are in the CPE. What that means in the real world, is that I can allow the CPE to connect to ANY network that I know about and can configure interfaces for. I built one network that utilized 3 ISPs with access methods that varied from DHCP, PPPoE and Static IPs (different IP, depending on the tower we connected to). That is something that a mesh cannot compete with, since the mesh would be owned by a single entity (at least in most cases). With that said... I'm not advocating any manufactures product here (I just happen to be the most familiar with Motorola's)... but if I was to build out a Mesh network, and mobility was required, I'd choose something that was designed for it and proven for it. An if it sounded like I was knocking the Moto option, it was not intended that way. The fact is, that I know (from experience) that we are not nearly as limited as your post seemed to suggest. With smart CPE devices, you'd be surprised what can be done. In some cases, we can do way more with my methods than any other solution is capable of. Heck I'm really advocating air cards here... I've got no stake in that but realistically is probably the cheapest and best option for this police department assuming that there is decent 3G service there. I would agree, sort of. It really depends on what they need. If it is simple access (even with a vpn) to a network that can handle the high latency and low speed of the cellular network, then an air card is almost certainly the best option. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
