Re: [WISPA] More spectrum?

2012-04-02 Thread Jeromie Reeves
On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 6:46 AM, Fred Goldstein  wrote:
> At 4/2/2012 09:22 AM, Jeromie Reeves wrote:
>>Right. This is the next part of the puzzle. John Scrivner wrong to the
>>list a email titled [WISPA] Future of Wifi Offloading WAS: Ericsson is
>>buying BelAir, betting on Wi-Fi.
>>
>>This auction sums up my post in that thread. The cellco's are getting
>>smarter about what the users want and about how to
>>deliver it to them. Look at the partnerships that cellco's are making
>>with cable co's. The cable companies already have large
>>high speed footprints. Its trivial to throw a cable modem with a AP in
>>it onto a pole. Suddenly you have a very large roamable
>>footprint, if only that wifi chipset had a little more cellular sauce
>>in it.
>
> Just to clarify, "AP" generally means WiFi.  Most smartphones already
> have WiFi, so it's just a matter of getting them to use it.  But the
> cellcos could also choose to adopt picocells or DAS, where they mount
> a cell on every block or so, possibly hanging from the cable.  That
> latter case uses the cellco's licensed frequencies.  It puts more
> pressure on their spectrum, but lets them bill for the usage.

Right I should say PicoCell instead of AP. It really does not put more pressure
on the spectrum as it will be gps synced. Smaller, tighter cells
releases pressure
from the RF by offloading.

>
> Since Americans prefer flat-rate plans, the cellcos seem to be moving
> away from charging by the bit and more towards monthly plans.  This
> changes their incentive from wanting more bits to wanting
> fewer.  Think about how the LD business moved away from advertising
> usage ("the next best thing to being there") to discouraging usage
> (railing against "access stimulation").  So it looks like they'd
> really rather your smartphone move to WiFi when home and not tie up
> their network.

Right but this is where I think the cellco's got smart. They know that
is not going to fly
for long or very well. Also bits is not the main issue. RF congestion
is and this kind
of picocell setup would solve a lot of that. The main reason people do
not use their
wifi is the convenience of not having to switch radios. A cellco
powered wifi would go
a long way to making people happy in that regard. Also, look at all
the special use they
can bill for.

>
>>Atheros chips very well could do it with some good
>>firmware, look at Ubnt. They are pretty close with their GPS, for a
>>small in house project. Look at what Ubnt did with just a
>>highly experienced RF team? AirFiber. Now do the same with more money
>>and in a cellular project aimed at very small and
>>very fast cells. Sky is not falling, yet.
>
> Atheros is now part of Qualcomm, which of course makes cell phone
> chipsets too.  There are already cheap femtocells (home-based) that
> do the RF side of the cellular system (NodeB) while parasitically
> feeding the customer's Internet connection, giving the cellco, in
> effect, free backhaul.  (Why should Vonage have all the fun?)  An
> outdoor picocell is a bit more complex but practical in an
> aerial-wire area.  Of course it doesn't do much good in an
> underground-wire area.  Femtocells haven't caught on that much here
> because WiFi is picking up the load.  They are mostly useful when you
> are just out of range of a base station and need to use the cellphone
> at home; WiFi offload doesn't work for receiving phone calls.

Right. And they do work in a underground wire area. They just need to run
wire up a pole some place. Even in 100% underground areas there are light
poles and I have seen wifi on them, cellco's can do it too.

>
> But going back to the original thread, there's some irony here in how
> the cellcos almost screwed themselves when trying to screw us.  They
> had inserted wording into a budget bill that would have banned the
> FCC from providing any more unlicensed spectrum.  Their minions on
> the Hill thought that they wanted it.  But while the lobbyists were
> pushing that message, the folks on the ground were trying to move
> traffic to WiFi, and thus their own cost-saving plans would have been
> hurt.  They got word back to the Hill on time and thus concurred with
> WISPA and almost everyone else that banning unlicensed would be a bad move.

Gotta love politics.

>
>  --
>  Fred Goldstein    k1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
>  ionary Consulting              http://www.ionary.com/
>  +1 617 795 2701
>
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Re: [WISPA] More spectrum?

2012-04-02 Thread Fred Goldstein
At 4/2/2012 09:22 AM, Jeromie Reeves wrote:
>Right. This is the next part of the puzzle. John Scrivner wrong to the
>list a email titled [WISPA] Future of Wifi Offloading WAS: Ericsson is
>buying BelAir, betting on Wi-Fi.
>
>This auction sums up my post in that thread. The cellco's are getting
>smarter about what the users want and about how to
>deliver it to them. Look at the partnerships that cellco's are making
>with cable co's. The cable companies already have large
>high speed footprints. Its trivial to throw a cable modem with a AP in
>it onto a pole. Suddenly you have a very large roamable
>footprint, if only that wifi chipset had a little more cellular sauce
>in it.

Just to clarify, "AP" generally means WiFi.  Most smartphones already 
have WiFi, so it's just a matter of getting them to use it.  But the 
cellcos could also choose to adopt picocells or DAS, where they mount 
a cell on every block or so, possibly hanging from the cable.  That 
latter case uses the cellco's licensed frequencies.  It puts more 
pressure on their spectrum, but lets them bill for the usage.

Since Americans prefer flat-rate plans, the cellcos seem to be moving 
away from charging by the bit and more towards monthly plans.  This 
changes their incentive from wanting more bits to wanting 
fewer.  Think about how the LD business moved away from advertising 
usage ("the next best thing to being there") to discouraging usage 
(railing against "access stimulation").  So it looks like they'd 
really rather your smartphone move to WiFi when home and not tie up 
their network.

>Atheros chips very well could do it with some good
>firmware, look at Ubnt. They are pretty close with their GPS, for a
>small in house project. Look at what Ubnt did with just a
>highly experienced RF team? AirFiber. Now do the same with more money
>and in a cellular project aimed at very small and
>very fast cells. Sky is not falling, yet.

Atheros is now part of Qualcomm, which of course makes cell phone 
chipsets too.  There are already cheap femtocells (home-based) that 
do the RF side of the cellular system (NodeB) while parasitically 
feeding the customer's Internet connection, giving the cellco, in 
effect, free backhaul.  (Why should Vonage have all the fun?)  An 
outdoor picocell is a bit more complex but practical in an 
aerial-wire area.  Of course it doesn't do much good in an 
underground-wire area.  Femtocells haven't caught on that much here 
because WiFi is picking up the load.  They are mostly useful when you 
are just out of range of a base station and need to use the cellphone 
at home; WiFi offload doesn't work for receiving phone calls.

But going back to the original thread, there's some irony here in how 
the cellcos almost screwed themselves when trying to screw us.  They 
had inserted wording into a budget bill that would have banned the 
FCC from providing any more unlicensed spectrum.  Their minions on 
the Hill thought that they wanted it.  But while the lobbyists were 
pushing that message, the folks on the ground were trying to move 
traffic to WiFi, and thus their own cost-saving plans would have been 
hurt.  They got word back to the Hill on time and thus concurred with 
WISPA and almost everyone else that banning unlicensed would be a bad move.

  --
  Fred Goldsteink1io   fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
  ionary Consulting  http://www.ionary.com/
  +1 617 795 2701 

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Re: [WISPA] More spectrum?

2012-04-02 Thread Jeromie Reeves
ah! Yes I agree we could use the spectrum. I bet Ubnt could retool the M2
line for it in a hurry. What would it take to get this licensed in very
small chunks, or even licensed lite? Ill go wake up in a few min.

Jeromie Reeves

On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 6:33 AM, Jason Bailey  wrote:

> No,I'm not. I was just saying we sure could use it!!!
>
>
> --- On *Mon, 4/2/12, Jeromie Reeves * wrote:
>
>
> From: Jeromie Reeves 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] More spectrum?
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Date: Monday, April 2, 2012, 9:32 AM
>
>
> Are you a cell co? I do not see anyone with out deep pockets getting
> the RF. Not unless the FCC does this auction in very small
> chunks.
>
> On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 6:26 AM, Jason Bailey 
> http://mc/compose?to=j284...@yahoo.com>>
> wrote:
> >
> > That is exactly what I was thinking. We sure could use it!
> >
> > --- On Mon, 4/2/12, Jeromie Reeves 
> > http://mc/compose?to=jree...@18-30chat.net>>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Jeromie Reeves 
> > http://mc/compose?to=jree...@18-30chat.net>
> >
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] More spectrum?
> > To: "WISPA General List" 
> > http://mc/compose?to=wireless@wispa.org>
> >
> > Date: Monday, April 2, 2012, 9:22 AM
> >
> >
> > Right. This is the next part of the puzzle. John Scrivner wrong to the
> > list a email titled [WISPA] Future of Wifi Offloading WAS: Ericsson is
> > buying BelAir, betting on Wi-Fi.
> >
> > This auction sums up my post in that thread. The cellco's are getting
> > smarter about what the users want and about how to
> > deliver it to them. Look at the partnerships that cellco's are making
> > with cable co's. The cable companies already have large
> > high speed footprints. Its trivial to throw a cable modem with a AP in
> > it onto a pole. Suddenly you have a very large roamable
> > footprint, if only that wifi chipset had a little more cellular sauce
> > in it. Atheros chips very well could do it with some good
> > firmware, look at Ubnt. They are pretty close with their GPS, for a
> > small in house project. Look at what Ubnt did with just a
> > highly experienced RF team? AirFiber. Now do the same with more money
> > and in a cellular project aimed at very small and
> > very fast cells. Sky is not falling, yet.
> >
> > Jeromie
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 6:54 AM,  
> > http://mc/compose?to=wispawirel...@ics-il.net>>
> wrote:
> > > I see that going to the cellular guys.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -
> > > Mike Hammett
> > > Intelligent Computing Solutions
> > > http://www.ics-il.com
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Jason Bailey" 
> > > http://mc/compose?to=j284...@yahoo.com>
> >
> > > To: wireless@wispa.org <http://mc/compose?to=wireless@wispa.org>
> > > Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 8:57:16 PM
> > > Subject: [WISPA] More spectrum?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/fcc-carves-out-another--mhz-forms-spectrum-auction-task-force/212502
> > > ___
> > > Wireless mailing list
> > > Wireless@wispa.org <http://mc/compose?to=Wireless@wispa.org>
> > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > > ___
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> > > Wireless@wispa.org <http://mc/compose?to=Wireless@wispa.org>
> > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > ___
> > Wireless mailing list
> > Wireless@wispa.org <http://mc/compose?to=Wireless@wispa.org>
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Wireless mailing list
> > Wireless@wispa.org <http://mc/compose?to=Wireless@wispa.org>
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
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Re: [WISPA] More spectrum?

2012-04-02 Thread Jason Bailey
No,I'm not. I was just saying we sure could use it!!!

--- On Mon, 4/2/12, Jeromie Reeves  wrote:

From: Jeromie Reeves 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] More spectrum?
To: "WISPA General List" 
Date: Monday, April 2, 2012, 9:32 AM

Are you a cell co? I do not see anyone with out deep pockets getting
the RF. Not unless the FCC does this auction in very small
chunks.

On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 6:26 AM, Jason Bailey  wrote:
>
> That is exactly what I was thinking. We sure could use it!
>
> --- On Mon, 4/2/12, Jeromie Reeves  wrote:
>
>
> From: Jeromie Reeves 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] More spectrum?
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Date: Monday, April 2, 2012, 9:22 AM
>
>
> Right. This is the next part of the puzzle. John Scrivner wrong to the
> list a email titled [WISPA] Future of Wifi Offloading WAS: Ericsson is
> buying BelAir, betting on Wi-Fi.
>
> This auction sums up my post in that thread. The cellco's are getting
> smarter about what the users want and about how to
> deliver it to them. Look at the partnerships that cellco's are making
> with cable co's. The cable companies already have large
> high speed footprints. Its trivial to throw a cable modem with a AP in
> it onto a pole. Suddenly you have a very large roamable
> footprint, if only that wifi chipset had a little more cellular sauce
> in it. Atheros chips very well could do it with some good
> firmware, look at Ubnt. They are pretty close with their GPS, for a
> small in house project. Look at what Ubnt did with just a
> highly experienced RF team? AirFiber. Now do the same with more money
> and in a cellular project aimed at very small and
> very fast cells. Sky is not falling, yet.
>
> Jeromie
>
> On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 6:54 AM,   wrote:
> > I see that going to the cellular guys.
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions
> > http://www.ics-il.com
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Jason Bailey" 
> > To: wireless@wispa.org
> > Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 8:57:16 PM
> > Subject: [WISPA] More spectrum?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/fcc-carves-out-another--mhz-forms-spectrum-auction-task-force/212502
> > ___
> > Wireless mailing list
> > Wireless@wispa.org
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > ___
> > Wireless mailing list
> > Wireless@wispa.org
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> ___
> Wireless mailing list
> Wireless@wispa.org
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [WISPA] More spectrum?

2012-04-02 Thread Jeromie Reeves
Are you a cell co? I do not see anyone with out deep pockets getting
the RF. Not unless the FCC does this auction in very small
chunks.

On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 6:26 AM, Jason Bailey  wrote:
>
> That is exactly what I was thinking. We sure could use it!
>
> --- On Mon, 4/2/12, Jeromie Reeves  wrote:
>
>
> From: Jeromie Reeves 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] More spectrum?
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Date: Monday, April 2, 2012, 9:22 AM
>
>
> Right. This is the next part of the puzzle. John Scrivner wrong to the
> list a email titled [WISPA] Future of Wifi Offloading WAS: Ericsson is
> buying BelAir, betting on Wi-Fi.
>
> This auction sums up my post in that thread. The cellco's are getting
> smarter about what the users want and about how to
> deliver it to them. Look at the partnerships that cellco's are making
> with cable co's. The cable companies already have large
> high speed footprints. Its trivial to throw a cable modem with a AP in
> it onto a pole. Suddenly you have a very large roamable
> footprint, if only that wifi chipset had a little more cellular sauce
> in it. Atheros chips very well could do it with some good
> firmware, look at Ubnt. They are pretty close with their GPS, for a
> small in house project. Look at what Ubnt did with just a
> highly experienced RF team? AirFiber. Now do the same with more money
> and in a cellular project aimed at very small and
> very fast cells. Sky is not falling, yet.
>
> Jeromie
>
> On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 6:54 AM,   wrote:
> > I see that going to the cellular guys.
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions
> > http://www.ics-il.com
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Jason Bailey" 
> > To: wireless@wispa.org
> > Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 8:57:16 PM
> > Subject: [WISPA] More spectrum?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/fcc-carves-out-another--mhz-forms-spectrum-auction-task-force/212502
> > ___
> > Wireless mailing list
> > Wireless@wispa.org
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > ___
> > Wireless mailing list
> > Wireless@wispa.org
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> ___
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> Wireless@wispa.org
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] More spectrum?

2012-04-02 Thread Jason Bailey
That is exactly what I was thinking. We sure could use it!

--- On Mon, 4/2/12, Jeromie Reeves  wrote:

From: Jeromie Reeves 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] More spectrum?
To: "WISPA General List" 
Date: Monday, April 2, 2012, 9:22 AM

Right. This is the next part of the puzzle. John Scrivner wrong to the
list a email titled [WISPA] Future of Wifi Offloading WAS: Ericsson is
buying BelAir, betting on Wi-Fi.

This auction sums up my post in that thread. The cellco's are getting
smarter about what the users want and about how to
deliver it to them. Look at the partnerships that cellco's are making
with cable co's. The cable companies already have large
high speed footprints. Its trivial to throw a cable modem with a AP in
it onto a pole. Suddenly you have a very large roamable
footprint, if only that wifi chipset had a little more cellular sauce
in it. Atheros chips very well could do it with some good
firmware, look at Ubnt. They are pretty close with their GPS, for a
small in house project. Look at what Ubnt did with just a
highly experienced RF team? AirFiber. Now do the same with more money
and in a cellular project aimed at very small and
very fast cells. Sky is not falling, yet.

Jeromie

On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 6:54 AM,   wrote:
> I see that going to the cellular guys.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jason Bailey" 
> To: wireless@wispa.org
> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 8:57:16 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] More spectrum?
>
>
>
> http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/fcc-carves-out-another--mhz-forms-spectrum-auction-task-force/212502
> ___
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> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
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Re: [WISPA] More spectrum?

2012-04-02 Thread Jeromie Reeves
Right. This is the next part of the puzzle. John Scrivner wrong to the
list a email titled [WISPA] Future of Wifi Offloading WAS: Ericsson is
buying BelAir, betting on Wi-Fi.

This auction sums up my post in that thread. The cellco's are getting
smarter about what the users want and about how to
deliver it to them. Look at the partnerships that cellco's are making
with cable co's. The cable companies already have large
high speed footprints. Its trivial to throw a cable modem with a AP in
it onto a pole. Suddenly you have a very large roamable
footprint, if only that wifi chipset had a little more cellular sauce
in it. Atheros chips very well could do it with some good
firmware, look at Ubnt. They are pretty close with their GPS, for a
small in house project. Look at what Ubnt did with just a
highly experienced RF team? AirFiber. Now do the same with more money
and in a cellular project aimed at very small and
very fast cells. Sky is not falling, yet.

Jeromie

On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 6:54 AM,   wrote:
> I see that going to the cellular guys.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jason Bailey" 
> To: wireless@wispa.org
> Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 8:57:16 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] More spectrum?
>
>
>
> http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/fcc-carves-out-another--mhz-forms-spectrum-auction-task-force/212502
> ___
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Re: [WISPA] More spectrum?

2012-04-01 Thread wispawireless
I see that going to the cellular guys.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

- Original Message -
From: "Jason Bailey" 
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 8:57:16 PM
Subject: [WISPA] More spectrum?



http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/fcc-carves-out-another--mhz-forms-spectrum-auction-task-force/212502
 
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[WISPA] More spectrum?

2012-03-31 Thread Jason Bailey

http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/fcc-carves-out-another--mhz-forms-spectrum-auction-task-force/212502
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Re: [WISPA] More Spectrum!!

2010-12-30 Thread Charles N Wyble
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

The pricing better come WAY WAY WAY down if multiple people can access
the same spectrum. The only way the current prices are justified is
because the access is exclusive.




On 12/30/2010 10:43 AM, Jerry Richardson wrote:
> Where do we start?
> 
> - Jerry
> 
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
> Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists
> Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 9:26 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] More Spectrum!!
> 
> Folks, here is the real opportunity that we need to be focusing on
>  
> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/12/white-spaces-could-expand-beyond-unused-tv-spectrum.ars
>  There may be no more important item for wisps to unite in their focus on 
> than this.   If we can start to use other "white space" spectrum - or even 
> scraps of licensed spectrum that are going unused - we will have all the 
> spectrum we need.
>  Time to roll!
>  Matt Larsen
> Vistabeam.com
> Wirelesscowboys.com
> 
> 
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<http://www.avg.com>
> Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3348 - Release Date: 12/30/10
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


- -- 
Charles N Wyble (char...@knownelement.com)
Systems craftsman for the stars
http://www.knownelement.com
Mobile: 626 539 4344
Office: 310 929 8793
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Re: [WISPA] More Spectrum!!

2010-12-30 Thread Jerry Richardson
Where do we start?

- Jerry

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Matt Larsen - Lists
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 9:26 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] More Spectrum!!

Folks, here is the real opportunity that we need to be focusing on
 
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/12/white-spaces-could-expand-beyond-unused-tv-spectrum.ars
 There may be no more important item for wisps to unite in their focus on than 
this.   If we can start to use other "white space" spectrum - or even scraps of 
licensed spectrum that are going unused - we will have all the spectrum we need.
 Time to roll!
 Matt Larsen
Vistabeam.com
Wirelesscowboys.com


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[WISPA] More Spectrum!!

2010-12-30 Thread Matt Larsen - Lists

Folks, here is the real opportunity that we need to be focusing on

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/12/white-spaces-could-expand-beyond-unused-tv-spectrum.ars

 There may be no more important item for wisps to unite in their focus 
on than this.If we can start to use other "white space" spectrum -- or 
even scraps of licensed spectrum that are going unused -- we will have 
all the spectrum we need.


 Time to roll!

 Matt Larsen
Vistabeam.com
Wirelesscowboys.com




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