Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance
I believe it is the doctors/hospitals causing the issues with high insurance. Here as a good example... True Story: I have two friends that have children that needed/had the same operation. Friend 1 had insurance, Friend 2 did not. They went to the same doctors and same hospitals. Friend 1 with insurance was charged around $40,000 total for the child's surgery. Friend 2, that did not have insurance, told them up front, and the cost was around $15,000 total. There were no complications in either case. I also made a trip to the emergency room a few years ago. I was charged $10 for 1 Tylenol. So something smells awful fishy here. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:17:43 -0600 The answer to your first question is our government currently limits where insurance companies can offer their coverage. Open up the entire country to all health insurance companies and you'll see competition increase and prices decrease. This is economics 101, but our elected officials can't seem to get their arms around it...or simply choose not to. Your second question/point is correct. Creating a government option will discourage competition resulting in a single payer system. With a single payer system it is my opinion the cost will go up and the services provided will go down. Without competition I see this as the only outcome. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul C Diem Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:05 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded program will do. Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is gets me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about this: 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is averaging a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a great $75 billion/year? 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry. How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free enterprises in any industry? Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty and not that it's an extra tax. Either way I'd have insurance on my vehicles. I would agree that the cost is too high which is for the same reasons our health care is so high. I too have been one of those people that begged not to send me to the hospital because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up there, I still paid several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I had absolutely the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live kickin for it. Just a lot less savings in the bank. And I still dont want any government plan or their help in any way. What I'm p-o-ed about is why it costs so much. For example, $8 for 2 asperin! As a wise old friend of mine used to say follow the dollar. Thats what needs to be fixed. Then our health care policies will go down but not until the waste is corrected. -RickG On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care system. One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare. If you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services. That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I am tired of being terrified that BASIC health care will put me in the poor-house. I volunteer as a firefighter/paramedic.. I am tired of patients (sometimes in horrific car accidents) that ask me to NOT take them to the hospital because they cannot afford it. Imagine looking down on someone that you just extracted from a car wreck and have strapped to a backboard begging you to let them up and let them out because of the financial burden of going to the hospital. I am more than happy to pay for extra medical services. Whatever those may be.. Heck, I can even buy more insurance if I need to. I buy extra insurance riders for my car to cover me when I am driving on private forest-lands on top of the mandatory insurance needed for my vehicle. Why are we not having a
Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance
I would say the problems is lawyers. When a skilled good doctor that is nationally renowned as a OB can't make a living as a OB alone yet he is always busy but end up doing plastic surgery on the side because his malpractice insurance is so high (yet never had to use it) but he has to carry it. On the prices I seen the clear opposite. The insurance companies have allowed prices what the doctors can charge. If you don't have insurance you can end up paying full premiums which sometimes can be twice as much as health insurance allowed fees. /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Scottie Arnett sarn...@info-ed.com Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 08:26:22 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance I believe it is the doctors/hospitals causing the issues with high insurance. Here as a good example... True Story: I have two friends that have children that needed/had the same operation. Friend 1 had insurance, Friend 2 did not. They went to the same doctors and same hospitals. Friend 1 with insurance was charged around $40,000 total for the child's surgery. Friend 2, that did not have insurance, told them up front, and the cost was around $15,000 total. There were no complications in either case. I also made a trip to the emergency room a few years ago. I was charged $10 for 1 Tylenol. So something smells awful fishy here. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:17:43 -0600 The answer to your first question is our government currently limits where insurance companies can offer their coverage. Open up the entire country to all health insurance companies and you'll see competition increase and prices decrease. This is economics 101, but our elected officials can't seem to get their arms around it...or simply choose not to. Your second question/point is correct. Creating a government option will discourage competition resulting in a single payer system. With a single payer system it is my opinion the cost will go up and the services provided will go down. Without competition I see this as the only outcome. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul C Diem Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:05 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded program will do. Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is gets me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about this: 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is averaging a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a great $75 billion/year? 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry. How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free enterprises in any industry? Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty and not that it's an extra tax. Either way I'd have insurance on my vehicles. I would agree that the cost is too high which is for the same reasons our health care is so high. I too have been one of those people that begged not to send me to the hospital because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up there, I still paid several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I had absolutely the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live kickin for it. Just a lot less savings in the bank. And I still dont want any government plan or their help in any way. What I'm p-o-ed about is why it costs so much. For example, $8 for 2 asperin! As a wise old friend of mine used to say follow the dollar. Thats what needs to be fixed. Then our health care policies will go down but not until the waste is corrected. -RickG On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care system. One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare. If you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services. That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I am tired of being
Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance
That's correct and you're blaming the doctor? Your example gives you some idea the amount of waste our current system is saddled with. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scottie Arnett Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance I believe it is the doctors/hospitals causing the issues with high insurance. Here as a good example... True Story: I have two friends that have children that needed/had the same operation. Friend 1 had insurance, Friend 2 did not. They went to the same doctors and same hospitals. Friend 1 with insurance was charged around $40,000 total for the child's surgery. Friend 2, that did not have insurance, told them up front, and the cost was around $15,000 total. There were no complications in either case. I also made a trip to the emergency room a few years ago. I was charged $10 for 1 Tylenol. So something smells awful fishy here. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:17:43 -0600 The answer to your first question is our government currently limits where insurance companies can offer their coverage. Open up the entire country to all health insurance companies and you'll see competition increase and prices decrease. This is economics 101, but our elected officials can't seem to get their arms around it...or simply choose not to. Your second question/point is correct. Creating a government option will discourage competition resulting in a single payer system. With a single payer system it is my opinion the cost will go up and the services provided will go down. Without competition I see this as the only outcome. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul C Diem Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:05 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded program will do. Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is gets me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about this: 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is averaging a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a great $75 billion/year? 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry. How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free enterprises in any industry? Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty and not that it's an extra tax. Either way I'd have insurance on my vehicles. I would agree that the cost is too high which is for the same reasons our health care is so high. I too have been one of those people that begged not to send me to the hospital because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up there, I still paid several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I had absolutely the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live kickin for it. Just a lot less savings in the bank. And I still dont want any government plan or their help in any way. What I'm p-o-ed about is why it costs so much. For example, $8 for 2 asperin! As a wise old friend of mine used to say follow the dollar. Thats what needs to be fixed. Then our health care policies will go down but not until the waste is corrected. -RickG On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care system. One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare. If you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services. That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I am tired of being terrified that BASIC health care will put me in the poor-house. I volunteer as a firefighter/paramedic.. I am tired of patients (sometimes in horrific car accidents) that ask me to NOT take them to the hospital because they cannot afford it. Imagine looking down on someone that you just extracted from a car wreck and have strapped to a backboard begging you to let them up and let them out
Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance
Just taking issue with the I was charged $8 for two Tylenol, I was charged $10 for a Tylenol. A beer in a bar (with far less overhead) is $5. Isn't the fact that if one doesn't have insurance the hospitals work with you at the very least go to show that the folks providing us healthcare aren't the cold hearted money grabbing parasites some pushing for healthcare reform (I mean people I know and people I hear on TV, not pointing fingers at anyone here on the list) try to claim they are? I know of examples where patients couldn't afford the meds so the pharmaceutical company donated them, or a friend (who's a missionary in the jungle and not much money) who's daughter ran up a $500,000 bill being on a special life support device which the company itself helped pay for and the rest was covered by grants. Our system is not as broken as some want to make it out to be. Many of the uninsured are uninsured by choice or illegals. I live in Venezuela and I am covered by their free system there (though if it matters and one has the money people go to the paid clinics) BUT I'M NOT THERE ILLEGALLY. Greg On Dec 7, 2009, at 9:26 AM, Scottie Arnett wrote: I believe it is the doctors/hospitals causing the issues with high insurance. Here as a good example... True Story: I have two friends that have children that needed/had the same operation. Friend 1 had insurance, Friend 2 did not. They went to the same doctors and same hospitals. Friend 1 with insurance was charged around $40,000 total for the child's surgery. Friend 2, that did not have insurance, told them up front, and the cost was around $15,000 total. There were no complications in either case. I also made a trip to the emergency room a few years ago. I was charged $10 for 1 Tylenol. So something smells awful fishy here. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:17:43 -0600 The answer to your first question is our government currently limits where insurance companies can offer their coverage. Open up the entire country to all health insurance companies and you'll see competition increase and prices decrease. This is economics 101, but our elected officials can't seem to get their arms around it...or simply choose not to. Your second question/point is correct. Creating a government option will discourage competition resulting in a single payer system. With a single payer system it is my opinion the cost will go up and the services provided will go down. Without competition I see this as the only outcome. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul C Diem Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:05 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded program will do. Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is gets me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about this: 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is averaging a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a great $75 billion/year? 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry. How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free enterprises in any industry? Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty and not that it's an extra tax. Either way I'd have insurance on my vehicles. I would agree that the cost is too high which is for the same reasons our health care is so high. I too have been one of those people that begged not to send me to the hospital because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up there, I still paid several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I had absolutely the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live kickin for it. Just a lot less savings in the bank. And I still dont want any government plan or their help in any way. What I'm p-o-ed about is why it costs so much. For example, $8 for 2 asperin! As a wise old friend of mine used to say follow the dollar. Thats what needs to be fixed. Then our health care policies will go down but not until the waste is
Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance
That's correct and you're blaming the doctor? Yes, or the hospital. Many insurance companies may have a set rate they will pay, but many do not. In this instance, the doctor/hospital knew that Friend 1 had insurance and Friend 2 did not. Why the cost disparity? The doctor/hospital knew they could sock it to the insurance company. Insurance company pays more out, now what? Everyone's premiums go up to fund the doctor/hospital charging the outrageous prices to people that have insurance. Just an FYI, they have to treat you in life threatening situations. I have seen illegal aliens get treated in emergency rooms and then sent back across the border(if the law enforcement was involved, such as car wreck,etc...) and no one pays the bill, except the US citizens being charged more for health care. You can also make any attempt to pay on a doctor/hospital bill and their is nothing they can do about it. Even if it's $25 - $100/mth. At least that is the way it is around here. Both of these cause the price of health care to rise which leads to higher insurance. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 08:44:29 -0600 That's correct and you're blaming the doctor? Your example gives you some idea the amount of waste our current system is saddled with. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scottie Arnett Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance I believe it is the doctors/hospitals causing the issues with high insurance. Here as a good example... True Story: I have two friends that have children that needed/had the same operation. Friend 1 had insurance, Friend 2 did not. They went to the same doctors and same hospitals. Friend 1 with insurance was charged around $40,000 total for the child's surgery. Friend 2, that did not have insurance, told them up front, and the cost was around $15,000 total. There were no complications in either case. I also made a trip to the emergency room a few years ago. I was charged $10 for 1 Tylenol. So something smells awful fishy here. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:17:43 -0600 The answer to your first question is our government currently limits where insurance companies can offer their coverage. Open up the entire country to all health insurance companies and you'll see competition increase and prices decrease. This is economics 101, but our elected officials can't seem to get their arms around it...or simply choose not to. Your second question/point is correct. Creating a government option will discourage competition resulting in a single payer system. With a single payer system it is my opinion the cost will go up and the services provided will go down. Without competition I see this as the only outcome. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul C Diem Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:05 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded program will do. Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is gets me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about this: 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is averaging a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a great $75 billion/year? 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry. How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free enterprises in any industry? Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty and not that it's an extra tax. Either way I'd have insurance on my vehicles. I would agree that the cost is too high which is for the same reasons our health care is so high. I too have been one of those people that begged not to send me to the hospital because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up there, I still paid several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I had absolutely the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live kickin
Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance
Agreed about the lawyers, that is why it is so difficult to find an OB now. But, every single hospital, doctors office, lab, and pretty much any other health care provider offers discounts for cash pay customers. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: e...@wisp-router.com To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:42 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance I would say the problems is lawyers. When a skilled good doctor that is nationally renowned as a OB can't make a living as a OB alone yet he is always busy but end up doing plastic surgery on the side because his malpractice insurance is so high (yet never had to use it) but he has to carry it. On the prices I seen the clear opposite. The insurance companies have allowed prices what the doctors can charge. If you don't have insurance you can end up paying full premiums which sometimes can be twice as much as health insurance allowed fees. /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Scottie Arnett sarn...@info-ed.com Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 08:26:22 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance I believe it is the doctors/hospitals causing the issues with high insurance. Here as a good example... True Story: I have two friends that have children that needed/had the same operation. Friend 1 had insurance, Friend 2 did not. They went to the same doctors and same hospitals. Friend 1 with insurance was charged around $40,000 total for the child's surgery. Friend 2, that did not have insurance, told them up front, and the cost was around $15,000 total. There were no complications in either case. I also made a trip to the emergency room a few years ago. I was charged $10 for 1 Tylenol. So something smells awful fishy here. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:17:43 -0600 The answer to your first question is our government currently limits where insurance companies can offer their coverage. Open up the entire country to all health insurance companies and you'll see competition increase and prices decrease. This is economics 101, but our elected officials can't seem to get their arms around it...or simply choose not to. Your second question/point is correct. Creating a government option will discourage competition resulting in a single payer system. With a single payer system it is my opinion the cost will go up and the services provided will go down. Without competition I see this as the only outcome. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul C Diem Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:05 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded program will do. Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is gets me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about this: 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is averaging a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a great $75 billion/year? 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry. How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free enterprises in any industry? Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty and not that it's an extra tax. Either way I'd have insurance on my vehicles. I would agree that the cost is too high which is for the same reasons our health care is so high. I too have been one of those people that begged not to send me to the hospital because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up there, I still paid several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I had absolutely the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live kickin for it. Just a lot less savings in the bank. And I still dont want any government plan or their help in any way. What I'm p-o-ed about is why it costs so much. For example, $8 for 2 asperin! As a wise old friend of mine used to say follow the dollar. Thats what
Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance
No insurance was probably required to put some down, and then paid the balance quickly. Doctors and hospitals love that - it saves them a tremendous amount of money compared to the discounts that they have to give insurance, billing, time waiting for money, rebilling, giving the billing service a cut, etc. They always discount that. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: Scottie Arnett sarn...@info-ed.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:26 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance I believe it is the doctors/hospitals causing the issues with high insurance. Here as a good example... True Story: I have two friends that have children that needed/had the same operation. Friend 1 had insurance, Friend 2 did not. They went to the same doctors and same hospitals. Friend 1 with insurance was charged around $40,000 total for the child's surgery. Friend 2, that did not have insurance, told them up front, and the cost was around $15,000 total. There were no complications in either case. I also made a trip to the emergency room a few years ago. I was charged $10 for 1 Tylenol. So something smells awful fishy here. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:17:43 -0600 The answer to your first question is our government currently limits where insurance companies can offer their coverage. Open up the entire country to all health insurance companies and you'll see competition increase and prices decrease. This is economics 101, but our elected officials can't seem to get their arms around it...or simply choose not to. Your second question/point is correct. Creating a government option will discourage competition resulting in a single payer system. With a single payer system it is my opinion the cost will go up and the services provided will go down. Without competition I see this as the only outcome. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul C Diem Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:05 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded program will do. Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is gets me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about this: 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is averaging a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a great $75 billion/year? 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry. How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free enterprises in any industry? Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty and not that it's an extra tax. Either way I'd have insurance on my vehicles. I would agree that the cost is too high which is for the same reasons our health care is so high. I too have been one of those people that begged not to send me to the hospital because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up there, I still paid several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I had absolutely the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live kickin for it. Just a lot less savings in the bank. And I still dont want any government plan or their help in any way. What I'm p-o-ed about is why it costs so much. For example, $8 for 2 asperin! As a wise old friend of mine used to say follow the dollar. Thats what needs to be fixed. Then our health care policies will go down but not until the waste is corrected. -RickG On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care system. One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare. If you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services. That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I am tired of being terrified that BASIC health care will put me in the poor-house. I volunteer as a firefighter/paramedic.. I am tired
Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance
Insurance operations cost more because of the paperwork involved in claiming the insurance. I doubt it's $25k different, but... - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Scottie Arnett sarn...@info-ed.com Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 8:26 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance I believe it is the doctors/hospitals causing the issues with high insurance. Here as a good example... True Story: I have two friends that have children that needed/had the same operation. Friend 1 had insurance, Friend 2 did not. They went to the same doctors and same hospitals. Friend 1 with insurance was charged around $40,000 total for the child's surgery. Friend 2, that did not have insurance, told them up front, and the cost was around $15,000 total. There were no complications in either case. I also made a trip to the emergency room a few years ago. I was charged $10 for 1 Tylenol. So something smells awful fishy here. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:17:43 -0600 The answer to your first question is our government currently limits where insurance companies can offer their coverage. Open up the entire country to all health insurance companies and you'll see competition increase and prices decrease. This is economics 101, but our elected officials can't seem to get their arms around it...or simply choose not to. Your second question/point is correct. Creating a government option will discourage competition resulting in a single payer system. With a single payer system it is my opinion the cost will go up and the services provided will go down. Without competition I see this as the only outcome. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul C Diem Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:05 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded program will do. Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is gets me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about this: 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is averaging a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a great $75 billion/year? 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry. How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free enterprises in any industry? Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:19 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance I was against mandatory insurance on vehicles but for reasons of liberty and not that it's an extra tax. Either way I'd have insurance on my vehicles. I would agree that the cost is too high which is for the same reasons our health care is so high. I too have been one of those people that begged not to send me to the hospital because I couldnt afford it. I still ended up there, I still paid several thousand dollars, and thats the way it was. I had absolutely the best care I could ever ask for and I'm still here live kickin for it. Just a lot less savings in the bank. And I still dont want any government plan or their help in any way. What I'm p-o-ed about is why it costs so much. For example, $8 for 2 asperin! As a wise old friend of mine used to say follow the dollar. Thats what needs to be fixed. Then our health care policies will go down but not until the waste is corrected. -RickG On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: My wife is from South Africa where they have a public health care system. One of the fastest growing industries is private healthcare. If you want better service or do not want to wait in huge lines or want to go to the newest hospitals you pay extra to visit the private services. That sounds awesome.. Now. where do I get BASIC health care? Cause I am tired of being terrified that BASIC health care will put me in the poor-house. I volunteer as a firefighter/paramedic.. I am tired of patients (sometimes in horrific car accidents) that ask me to NOT take them to the hospital because they cannot afford it. Imagine looking down on someone that you just extracted from a car wreck and have strapped
Re: [WISPA] OT: health insurance
Another thing to consider in this scenario is negotiated fees. If you have insurance, the insurance company will negotiate a discount on the fees charged by the provider on your behalf. You pay your deductible, your insurance carrier pays the difference between your deductible contribution and the discounted amount. Most carriers will have pre-negotiated discounts in place with the providers. The providers try to get the costs up to factor in the discounts. In the case below, the discount could get the ultimate cost pretty close to the cash price. If this was a Medicaid case, the actual payment to the provider would be $1000 less than the cash price of $15,000. Medicaid has @ a 65% discount. You pay the insurance company a premium. Out of that premium the insurance company does three things - takes profit, pays claims and pays its administrative costs. Here are the rough numbers for the three silos: Profit 3% Overhead11% Claims 86% There isn't a whole lot of room to shift allocation on the first two items. The biggest column to move is the $.86 of every dollar that gets paid out in claims. The only way to do that is to use less services or be smarter about the ones you do use. The best way to do that is to be well. Live a healthier lifestyle = less sickness. You might be able to reduce your premiums if you promote wellness within your employees just because they will go to the doctor less. Incent them to stop smoking, loose weight, exercise etc. Share some of the savings you realize in premium dollars with them through deductible rebate, wellness program expenses etc. A healthier group will have lower premiums. It pays to have your group healthy. Our medical system is set up to treat and not prevent disease. As a nation we eat quarter pounders and drink quarts of soda. This causes heart disease. When you get heart disease, you go to the doctor, he puts you on meds and sends you to the cardiac care unit to get a cardiac procedure done. This generates big dollars for the drug company and big dollars for the hospital performing the procedure. We all could save the system, and therefore ourselves, billions just by avoiding this scenario. Chris I believe it is the doctors/hospitals causing the issues with high insurance. Here as a good example... True Story: I have two friends that have children that needed/had the same operation. Friend 1 had insurance, Friend 2 did not. They went to the same doctors and same hospitals. Friend 1 with insurance was charged around $40,000 total for the child's surgery. Friend 2, that did not have insurance, told them up front, and the cost was around $15,000 total. There were no complications in either case. I also made a trip to the emergency room a few years ago. I was charged $10 for 1 Tylenol. So something smells awful fishy here. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Brad Belton b...@belwave.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 23:17:43 -0600 The answer to your first question is our government currently limits where insurance companies can offer their coverage. Open up the entire country to all health insurance companies and you'll see competition increase and prices decrease. This is economics 101, but our elected officials can't seem to get their arms around it...or simply choose not to. Your second question/point is correct. Creating a government option will discourage competition resulting in a single payer system. With a single payer system it is my opinion the cost will go up and the services provided will go down. Without competition I see this as the only outcome. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Paul C Diem Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:05 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] health insurance Correcting the waste is the exact opposite of what a government funded program will do. Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to the news anymore because is gets me too po'ed. Can someone answer a couple basic question I have about this: 1. If the high cost of health care insurance is being caused by the insurance company executives raking in loads of money, why hasn't free enterprises created competition. If all the insurance company A is averaging a profit of $100 billion/year, wouldn't free enterprise generate a competitor that decided to charge 25% lower premiums and still make a great $75 billion/year? 2. I keep hearing that the idea of a federal government sponsored health care insurance program is to create competition in the insurance industry. How can tax dollar funded anything be considered true competition to free enterprises in any industry? Paul C Diem pcd...@foxvalley.net -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent:
