RE: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz
VERY bad. I believe this is the reason that the big boys aren't doing 5 gig / 2 gig, etc unlicensed today in addition to all their other crap. Let all those pesky wisps get the customers educated, we'll take 'em all with 700 mhz indoor installs. grrr. I wish I were close enough to Washington, but I'm not. I agree with you on the base station license thing. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 9:52 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz Apparently there is a meeting scheduled today, April 25, at the FCC over how the 700 MHz band is going to be split up for auction. It amazes me how we can be kept in the dark about these meetings. If anyone can tell me how to get included on announcements of such meetings I need to know about it. This really angers me that we are not there with some representation today. If anyone reads this who is near the DC area please go to this meeting and tell them we need spectrum to be made available on a base station license basis. They need to auction off individual base station licenses or reserve some for a flat fee so all of us can compete. If they do not then hundreds if not thousands of operators who are now serving rural broadband will not be able to compete. This is an anti-competitive problem that the FCC needs to address with this auction. This is a big deal. If we do not get some 700 MHz or similar sub- 1 GHz spectrum it is going to be very bad for us all. Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz
FCC Digest comes out daily with about 30 to 50 items. Sign up at fcc.gov This announcement today about the first of 2 auctions for 700 MHz is going to describe how the auction will go. Will it be large geographic chunks or smaller broadcast areas. Starts at 10:30. John Scrivner wrote: Apparently there is a meeting scheduled today, April 25, at the FCC over how the 700 MHz band is going to be split up for auction. It amazes me how we can be kept in the dark about these meetings. If anyone can tell me how to get included on announcements of such meetings I need to know about it. This really angers me that we are not there with some representation today. If anyone reads this who is near the DC area please go to this meeting and tell them we need spectrum to be made available on a base station license basis. They need to auction off individual base station licenses or reserve some for a flat fee so all of us can compete. If they do not then hundreds if not thousands of operators who are now serving rural broadband will not be able to compete. This is an anti-competitive problem that the FCC needs to address with this auction. This is a big deal. If we do not get some 700 MHz or similar sub- 1 GHz spectrum it is going to be very bad for us all. Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz
The meeting notice popped up last week. I didn't know about the 700 MHz until this morning. The 700 MHz has been on comments since 2003. Regards, Peter -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz
Peter - I don't guess that is going to be streamed eh? Mac Dearman -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter R. Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 9:07 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz FCC Digest comes out daily with about 30 to 50 items. Sign up at fcc.gov This announcement today about the first of 2 auctions for 700 MHz is going to describe how the auction will go. Will it be large geographic chunks or smaller broadcast areas. Starts at 10:30. John Scrivner wrote: Apparently there is a meeting scheduled today, April 25, at the FCC over how the 700 MHz band is going to be split up for auction. It amazes me how we can be kept in the dark about these meetings. If anyone can tell me how to get included on announcements of such meetings I need to know about it. This really angers me that we are not there with some representation today. If anyone reads this who is near the DC area please go to this meeting and tell them we need spectrum to be made available on a base station license basis. They need to auction off individual base station licenses or reserve some for a flat fee so all of us can compete. If they do not then hundreds if not thousands of operators who are now serving rural broadband will not be able to compete. This is an anti-competitive problem that the FCC needs to address with this auction. This is a big deal. If we do not get some 700 MHz or similar sub- 1 GHz spectrum it is going to be very bad for us all. Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz
Plus dealing with less than 10 who will fill out forms and abide by the rules without a fuss. The FCC has the CEO's of the cellco's on speed-dial. from Alex @ ISP-Planet: http://www.isp-planet.com/politics/2003/uncertainty_p2.html Here's a quote from a Powell speech: (competition is bad because) One of the things we are going to have to get really used to is once upon a time the world was really simple. We knew who all the companies were. We knew all the CEOs by name. I think what we are going to have to get used to is that there is never again going to be the ability to be very simplistic about a country this large and diverse and about whether the country is competitive, is this market segment this or is that market segment that. I think it's going to be much more dynamic and chaotic. It will be difficult to make broad generalizations about the entire space. Travis Johnson wrote: John, This is just my opinion, but I seriously doubt the FCC is just going to give away 700MHz licenses, even on a per base station basis. And the WISP community is not going to spend even $5,000 per license if they could. The cell companies will be bidding, and once again it will be in the millions of dollars per region. Honestly, what would you do if you were the FCC? Deal with hundreds or thousands of little operators at $5,000 per license, or sell 3 or 4 licenses for the entire US for millions of dollars? Travis Microserv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz
Travis Johnson wrote: John, This is just my opinion, but I seriously doubt the FCC is just going to give away 700MHz licenses, even on a per base station basis. I never said they should give it to us. I said they should have base station sized auctions. They can include an opening bid amount. They always do. And the WISP community is not going to spend even $5,000 per license if they could. I would spend $20K+ per base station license. I am not kidding. I would do it in a heartbeat because I could make it back in one year alone from not having to tell people NO when we could not get them signal. The cell companies will be bidding, and once again it will be in the millions of dollars per region. It is like farm ground. We are the farmers. None of us can farm if we have to buy a million square acres of ground to farm. It is not fair. It is exactly the same correlation and the FCC needs to hear it. (And understand it which is a big stretch for them) Honestly, what would you do if you were the FCC? Deal with hundreds or thousands of little operators at $5,000 per license, or sell 3 or 4 licenses for the entire US for millions of dollars? It is NOT about what is easier for them. It is a matter of what is best for the country. Enabling thousands of new bustling and growing entrepreneurs to build local wireless communication broadband companies is the smartest thing they could do which is why they will not do it. Scriv Travis Microserv John Scrivner wrote: Apparently there is a meeting scheduled today, April 25, at the FCC over how the 700 MHz band is going to be split up for auction. It amazes me how we can be kept in the dark about these meetings. If anyone can tell me how to get included on announcements of such meetings I need to know about it. This really angers me that we are not there with some representation today. If anyone reads this who is near the DC area please go to this meeting and tell them we need spectrum to be made available on a base station license basis. They need to auction off individual base station licenses or reserve some for a flat fee so all of us can compete. If they do not then hundreds if not thousands of operators who are now serving rural broadband will not be able to compete. This is an anti-competitive problem that the FCC needs to address with this auction. This is a big deal. If we do not get some 700 MHz or similar sub- 1 GHz spectrum it is going to be very bad for us all. Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz
Billions* - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 9:00 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz John, This is just my opinion, but I seriously doubt the FCC is just going to give away 700MHz licenses, even on a per base station basis. And the WISP community is not going to spend even $5,000 per license if they could. The cell companies will be bidding, and once again it will be in the millions of dollars per region. Honestly, what would you do if you were the FCC? Deal with hundreds or thousands of little operators at $5,000 per license, or sell 3 or 4 licenses for the entire US for millions of dollars? Travis Microserv John Scrivner wrote: Apparently there is a meeting scheduled today, April 25, at the FCC over how the 700 MHz band is going to be split up for auction. It amazes me how we can be kept in the dark about these meetings. If anyone can tell me how to get included on announcements of such meetings I need to know about it. This really angers me that we are not there with some representation today. If anyone reads this who is near the DC area please go to this meeting and tell them we need spectrum to be made available on a base station license basis. They need to auction off individual base station licenses or reserve some for a flat fee so all of us can compete. If they do not then hundreds if not thousands of operators who are now serving rural broadband will not be able to compete. This is an anti-competitive problem that the FCC needs to address with this auction. This is a big deal. If we do not get some 700 MHz or similar sub- 1 GHz spectrum it is going to be very bad for us all. Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz
I could see $5k per license (depending on the terms of the license) to be a good deal for WISPs. The amount of frequency we get, power levels, etc. all play in to the cost effectiveness of the license. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 9:00 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz John, This is just my opinion, but I seriously doubt the FCC is just going to give away 700MHz licenses, even on a per base station basis. And the WISP community is not going to spend even $5,000 per license if they could. The cell companies will be bidding, and once again it will be in the millions of dollars per region. Honestly, what would you do if you were the FCC? Deal with hundreds or thousands of little operators at $5,000 per license, or sell 3 or 4 licenses for the entire US for millions of dollars? Travis Microserv John Scrivner wrote: Apparently there is a meeting scheduled today, April 25, at the FCC over how the 700 MHz band is going to be split up for auction. It amazes me how we can be kept in the dark about these meetings. If anyone can tell me how to get included on announcements of such meetings I need to know about it. This really angers me that we are not there with some representation today. If anyone reads this who is near the DC area please go to this meeting and tell them we need spectrum to be made available on a base station license basis. They need to auction off individual base station licenses or reserve some for a flat fee so all of us can compete. If they do not then hundreds if not thousands of operators who are now serving rural broadband will not be able to compete. This is an anti-competitive problem that the FCC needs to address with this auction. This is a big deal. If we do not get some 700 MHz or similar sub- 1 GHz spectrum it is going to be very bad for us all. Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz
The other issue is equipment... you are willing to spend $20k RIGHT NOW for the license, but it would be at least a year before any equipment was available, and then it would be $500 per CPE and $10k per base station. A lot of the WISPs on this list spend an hour building a CPE to save $5. You think they are going to buy $500 CPE? Of course the price would come down, but that would be years from now. You should consider that for $20k, you could easily put up 4 towers using equipment that is available today, and cover those customers that you are turning away, TODAY. I have always said we need to get the customers signed up and installed NOW. TODAY. If they can't get our service, they will go with something else, and then they are gone forever. I have put up a new tower in a single day (backhaul, AP, router, etc.) because we had an area that we had two NOGO's (as we call them) in that area. We went back the next day and installed those two customers. Spend the money TODAY and use equipment that is available TODAY. Get those customers installed TODAY. Just my $0.02 worth. Travis Microserv John Scrivner wrote: Travis Johnson wrote: John, This is just my opinion, but I seriously doubt the FCC is just going to give away 700MHz licenses, even on a per base station basis. I never said they should give it to us. I said they should have base station sized auctions. They can include an opening bid amount. They always do. And the WISP community is not going to spend even $5,000 per license if they could. I would spend $20K+ per base station license. I am not kidding. I would do it in a heartbeat because I could make it back in one year alone from not having to tell people NO when we could not get them signal. The cell companies will be bidding, and once again it will be in the millions of dollars per region. It is like farm ground. We are the farmers. None of us can farm if we have to buy a million square acres of ground to farm. It is not fair. It is exactly the same correlation and the FCC needs to hear it. (And understand it which is a big stretch for them) Honestly, what would you do if you were the FCC? Deal with hundreds or thousands of little operators at $5,000 per license, or sell 3 or 4 licenses for the entire US for millions of dollars? It is NOT about what is easier for them. It is a matter of what is best for the country. Enabling thousands of new bustling and growing entrepreneurs to build local wireless communication broadband companies is the smartest thing they could do which is why they will not do it. Scriv Travis Microserv John Scrivner wrote: Apparently there is a meeting scheduled today, April 25, at the FCC over how the 700 MHz band is going to be split up for auction. It amazes me how we can be kept in the dark about these meetings. If anyone can tell me how to get included on announcements of such meetings I need to know about it. This really angers me that we are not there with some representation today. If anyone reads this who is near the DC area please go to this meeting and tell them we need spectrum to be made available on a base station license basis. They need to auction off individual base station licenses or reserve some for a flat fee so all of us can compete. If they do not then hundreds if not thousands of operators who are now serving rural broadband will not be able to compete. This is an anti-competitive problem that the FCC needs to address with this auction. This is a big deal. If we do not get some 700 MHz or similar sub- 1 GHz spectrum it is going to be very bad for us all. Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz
Maybe they haven't used it because there isn't any good, affordable equipment right now? Travis Microserv Mac Dearman wrote: Travis, IMHO the FCC is supposed to serve the people. I understand that spectrum is a huge money maker, but if just one of the FCC chair people lived in my rural part of the state - - we would have some of that spectrum. The ones who own the good spectrum now in my area have never used it and never will. If they (FCC) really understood how important that 700MHz is to so many out here in the boonies then they would give us the opportunity to acquire some of it and then they could gloat over what a great thing they did and I would lead that charge right to the press. Mac Dearman -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 9:01 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz John, This is just my opinion, but I seriously doubt the FCC is just going to give away 700MHz licenses, even on a per base station basis. And the WISP community is not going to spend even $5,000 per license if they could. The cell companies will be bidding, and once again it will be in the millions of dollars per region. Honestly, what would you do if you were the FCC? Deal with hundreds or thousands of little operators at $5,000 per license, or sell 3 or 4 licenses for the entire US for millions of dollars? Travis Microserv John Scrivner wrote: Apparently there is a meeting scheduled today, April 25, at the FCC over how the 700 MHz band is going to be split up for auction. It amazes me how we can be kept in the dark about these meetings. If anyone can tell me how to get included on announcements of such meetings I need to know about it. This really angers me that we are not there with some representation today. If anyone reads this who is near the DC area please go to this meeting and tell them we need spectrum to be made available on a base station license basis. They need to auction off individual base station licenses or reserve some for a flat fee so all of us can compete. If they do not then hundreds if not thousands of operators who are now serving rural broadband will not be able to compete. This is an anti-competitive problem that the FCC needs to address with this auction. This is a big deal. If we do not get some 700 MHz or similar sub- 1 GHz spectrum it is going to be very bad for us all. Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz
John, there is a daily release from the FCC that covers these things. It's long and 99.9% of it doesn't apply to us. I rarely take the time to scan it these days. I'll try to remember to post a signup link next time one comes in. Marlon (509) 982-2181 (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999! [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 6:52 AM Subject: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz Apparently there is a meeting scheduled today, April 25, at the FCC over how the 700 MHz band is going to be split up for auction. It amazes me how we can be kept in the dark about these meetings. If anyone can tell me how to get included on announcements of such meetings I need to know about it. This really angers me that we are not there with some representation today. If anyone reads this who is near the DC area please go to this meeting and tell them we need spectrum to be made available on a base station license basis. They need to auction off individual base station licenses or reserve some for a flat fee so all of us can compete. If they do not then hundreds if not thousands of operators who are now serving rural broadband will not be able to compete. This is an anti-competitive problem that the FCC needs to address with this auction. This is a big deal. If we do not get some 700 MHz or similar sub- 1 GHz spectrum it is going to be very bad for us all. Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz - FCC Subscribe
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Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz
John, Regarding your comment: Enabling thousands of new bustling and growing entrepreneurs to build local wireless communication broadband companies is the smartest thing they could do which is why they will not do it. Yes, creating and supporting new entrepreneurs is what government should do but our government has become corrupted (there, I did it... I uttered the C word) by the big money from large, entrenched, politically-connected corporations. By providing large political campaign contributions and gifts (like trips on corporate jets) large corporations now control how new laws are written and how existing laws are enforced. It should be no surprise that new laws are written to benefit large corporations. Back when I was a child (in the 50's) I was taught and I believed that the job of government was to do the greatest good for the greatest number of people. Today, that's changed. Now, it's my impression that our government writes laws to benefit those who contribute the most money to political parties. In the last few years, there are examples of bills that were actually written directly by large, politically-connected corporations, delivered to Congress, voted on and passed into law. Because laws written today fail to benefit the majority of the people, our real economy is going downhill. Our government prints billions of new dollars each month (millions of dollars each day) but these dollars are not being circulated in our real-world, local-businesses economy. These dollars are circulated on Wall Street. These dollars are circulated between our government and large corporations. These dollars are circulated between foreign central banks in countries outside the U.S. Now that I've framed the problem (political corruption), I have an obligation to do more than just complain. I have an obligation to outline the solution. The solution is to take the money out of politics. Allow all candidates to campaign with an small but equal amount of public money (our money). Remember, the job of politicians is to write the laws that govern our country. By taking the large-corporation money out of politics, politicians will be reminded each day who they are supposed to be working for... they're supposed to be working for us. Us is not large corporations. Us is real-world, middle-class, grass-roots, local-entrepreneur, working people. By taking the large-corporation, big-money factor out of politics, government will once again write laws that bring the greatest good to the greatest number of people. The FCC will then promote policies that truly build, benefit and support local economies. jack John Scrivner wrote: Travis Johnson wrote: John, This is just my opinion, but I seriously doubt the FCC is just going to give away 700MHz licenses, even on a per base station basis. I never said they should give it to us. I said they should have base station sized auctions. They can include an opening bid amount. They always do. And the WISP community is not going to spend even $5,000 per license if they could. I would spend $20K+ per base station license. I am not kidding. I would do it in a heartbeat because I could make it back in one year alone from not having to tell people NO when we could not get them signal. The cell companies will be bidding, and once again it will be in the millions of dollars per region. It is like farm ground. We are the farmers. None of us can farm if we have to buy a million square acres of ground to farm. It is not fair. It is exactly the same correlation and the FCC needs to hear it. (And understand it which is a big stretch for them) Honestly, what would you do if you were the FCC? Deal with hundreds or thousands of little operators at $5,000 per license, or sell 3 or 4 licenses for the entire US for millions of dollars? It is NOT about what is easier for them. It is a matter of what is best for the country. Enabling thousands of new bustling and growing entrepreneurs to build local wireless communication broadband companies is the smartest thing they could do which is why they will not do it. Scriv Travis Microserv John Scrivner wrote: Apparently there is a meeting scheduled today, April 25, at the FCC over how the 700 MHz band is going to be split up for auction. It amazes me how we can be kept in the dark about these meetings. If anyone can tell me how to get included on announcements of such meetings I need to know about it. This really angers me that we are not there with some representation today. If anyone reads this who is near the DC area please go to this meeting and tell them we need spectrum to be made available on a base station license basis. They need to auction off individual base station licenses or reserve some for a flat fee so all of us can compete. If they do not then hundreds if not thousands of operators who are now serving rural broadband will not be able to compete.
Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz
It's ALWAYS been this way. Back in the 50's when you were taught ideals, rest assured it was the same way (but as a child you weren't aware). Remember that telecommunications had little need for radio back then other than as microwave backhaul ... which never cut a large geographic area due to its directionality by nature. Radio licenses were handed out to commercial business's at modest filing fee because there wasn't perceived to be any large monetary demand. This changed only in the early 1980's as the FCC struggled to find ways to grant licenses for cellular spectrum, which was the first time in history that there had ever been such demand. Yet it still hadn't been discovered how much business's were willing to PAY for licenses until the first round of PCS auctions netted the government $2.3B almost a decade later. But IMO there's been no recent change in government. We each discover the way it works at a particular age, but I've no reason to believe it acted differently in times gone by. Just reflect back on regulations crafted for oil, railroad, steel, coal, or whatever the largest corporations of the day were 100 years ago. The only change is that wireless was never the target of the largest corporations way, way back when. Even though it was one-way, remember how the corporate interests of the TV broadcasters (Sarnoff) influenced the FCC to move the FM broadcast band almost-3/4-of-a-century-ago just as a roadblock to an emerging FM broadcast competition? Imagine getting the FCC to put all early FM broadcasters and manufacturers out of business with a stroke of the pen! I think this was all the way back in the 1930s. Crippled the FM broadcast industry for at least 30 years (until the invention of FM Stereo in the early 1960s). Before I start sounding like Mark, I need to state that I believe government plays an important helpful (even vital) role to promote US industries and provide the best services for the US people. I just think they're doing a bad job in this regard. I fervently believe that regulatory anarchy is the worst thing for us all collectively when it comes to signals that can travel long distances. There's no excuse for lack of regulation which can destroy the utility of our spectrum which can all go the way of CB. There's a terrible need for active FCC watch-dogs to weigh-in to counteract the impact of paid lobbyists. Of course, the major industries have a voice that's orders of magnitude louder. But that's the way it's always been. Rich - Original Message - From: Jack Unger To: WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 11:17 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz John, Regarding your comment: Enabling thousands of new bustling and growing entrepreneurs to build local wireless communication broadband companies is the smartest thing they could do which is why they will not do it. Yes, creating and supporting new entrepreneurs is what government should do but our government has become corrupted (there, I did it... I uttered the C word) by the big money from large, entrenched, politically-connected corporations. By providing large political campaign contributions and gifts (like trips on corporate jets) large corporations now control how new laws are written and how existing laws are enforced. It should be no surprise that new laws are written to benefit large corporations. Back when I was a child (in the 50's) I was taught and I believed that the job of government was to do the greatest good for the greatest number of people. Today, that's changed. Now, it's my impression that our government writes laws to benefit those who contribute the most money to political parties. In the last few years, there are examples of bills that were actually written directly by large, politically-connected corporations, delivered to Congress, voted on and passed into law. Because laws written today fail to benefit the majority of the people, our real economy is going downhill. Our government prints billions of new dollars each month (millions of dollars each day) but these dollars are not being circulated in our real-world, local-businesses economy. These dollars are circulated on Wall Street. These dollars are circulated between our government and large corporations. These dollars are circulated between foreign central banks in countries outside the U.S. Now that I've framed the problem (political corruption), I have an obligation to do more than just complain. I have an obligation to outline the solution. The solution is to take the money out of politics. Allow all candidates to campaign with an small but equal amount of public money (our money). Remember, the job of politicians is to write the laws that govern our country. By taking the large-corporation money out of politics, politicians will be reminded
Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz
- Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz John, Regarding your comment: Enabling thousands of new bustling and growing entrepreneurs to build local wireless communication broadband companies is the smartest thing they could do which is why they will not do it. Yes, creating and supporting new entrepreneurs is what government should do but our government has become corrupted (there, I did it... I uttered the C word) by the big money from large, entrenched, politically-connected corporations. By providing large political campaign contributions and gifts (like trips on corporate jets) large corporations now control how new laws are written and how existing laws are enforced. It should be no surprise that new laws are written to benefit large corporations. But Jack, this is problem is more than 200 years old in the US. In fact, people with money have been influencing government for... well, as long as there has been money and governments. Back when I was a child (in the 50's) I was taught and I believed that the job of government was to do the greatest good for the greatest number of people. Today, that's changed. Now, it's my impression that our government writes laws to benefit those who contribute the most money to political parties. In the last few years, there are examples of bills that were actually written directly by large, politically-connected corporations, delivered to Congress, voted on and passed into law. Because laws written today fail to benefit the majority of the people, our real economy is going downhill. Our economy has thrived IN SPITE OF GOVERNMENT for as long as our nation has existed. It has and always be so. There are many things that could be done to limit the damage, but few of us ever support those things. Our government prints billions of new dollars each month (millions of dollars each day) but these dollars are not being circulated in our real-world, local-businesses economy. These dollars are circulated on Wall Street. These dollars are circulated between our government and large corporations. These dollars are circulated between foreign central banks in countries outside the U.S. Now that I've framed the problem (political corruption), I have an obligation to do more than just complain. I have an obligation to outline the solution. The solution is to take the money out of politics. Allow all candidates to campaign with an small but equal amount of public money (our money). Remember, the job of politicians is to write the laws that govern our country. By taking the large-corporation money out of politics, politicians will be reminded each day who they are supposed to be working for... they're supposed to be working for us. No, Jack, this only gaurantees that the famous, the incumbents... these will get elected and re-elected. All this does is limit the power of those NOT in power to speak to the people. Every time someone tries to limit this, it further calcifies the power in place and people already into power. Money is not the problem. The problem is that we have allowed goverment to do everything for us, and we don't insist it stop. Poll this list, and you'll find a lot of people want the government to take over EVEN MORE parts of our economy than they have already. Health care being one. Gee, we whine and moan that government is intrenched into everything and plays favorites with those who give it money, and then we start talking about giving it EVEN MORE control and power. If money is EVER the problem... It's that the government has too much already. It has so much it can and does use it to pry into and then thinks it can solve with it's money, every so-called problem, be it people unwilling to budget their money to pay the doctor, or whiny snobs who snivel about how slow the public adopts broadband. And the FCC's motivation to rake in the money is why spectrum is so terribly badly allocated. And as soon as government sets itself in charge of something... then EVERYONE is at ther door trying to find ways to get the government to direct favor in their way. The question is: Where does this leave us? My God, do I have to sound like a broken record? We need to have been telling the FCC that impediments to entry into the wireless broadband business are wrong. Be they CALEA mandates, spectrum auction stupidness, or regulations concerning the use of public land. We HAVE to be the broken record... the squeaky wheel... We haven't money or huge numbers... but we can be LOUD. And we should be consistent, with the message that THIS TIME, economies of scale are not the salvation for reaching the people, but DIVERSITY, that is, a dynamic industry filled with everything from mom-and-pop garage based sharing schemes to bit multi-state operators
RE: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz
Jack, Campaign Contribution regulation is only one part of the solution to the problem. There are many ways to buy votes after the election is over and the politicians are in office. Regulating campaign contributions would just put more corporate money into the pot to fund trips, pet projects, hold lavish banquets, buy sporting event tickets and so forth. I do however agree that our elected officials do not control the country anymore. The large enabled Corporations guide policy as they see fit. This allows these corporations to get even bigger and there grasp on policy even stronger. The US is quickly becoming a monopolistic society in my eyes and twenty years from now our children are going to wonder just how ignorant their parents were for allowing this to happen. A quick analogy if I might. When I used to farm, it amazed me that people complained about farmer subsidies. Farmers are price takers and have little control over neither the price of the products they produce nor the cost of the supplies to produce these products. Agriculture subsidies were essential to even get the bottom line into the black in most cases. Large corporations control grain prices as well as input costs. If grain prices went up, input costs would go up as well, leaving the farmer with a relatively flat and thin margin. These subsidies however, were often spent locally supporting the local economies. When a farmer makes a good profit, he normally will buy more equipment (US made) and support the rural economy in which they reside. Taking away the profit potential of farmers does more to sour rural economies than anything else I can think of. I believe that is why I am so excited about the Ethanol and Biodiesel explosion. In this analogy, the large chemical/seed/equipment companies have been allowed to dictate agriculture policy to protect and improve their profit margins at the expense of the family farm. Farmers today either get big or they die. The telecommunications industry is heading much the same way. So much clout has been handed over to the ILECs (or is it one ILEC yet?) that there is little true competition. Tier One markets are primary targets for these corporations, the rural economy isn't worth their time to even consider. Rural America would be all but dead today (from a technological standpoint) if it wasn't for WISPs. It's time the FCC realizes this. Respectfully, Rick Harnish President OnlyInternet Broadband Wireless, Inc. 260-827-2482 Founding Member of WISPA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 12:17 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz John, Regarding your comment: Enabling thousands of new bustling and growing entrepreneurs to build local wireless communication broadband companies is the smartest thing they could do which is why they will not do it. Yes, creating and supporting new entrepreneurs is what government should do but our government has become corrupted (there, I did it... I uttered the C word) by the big money from large, entrenched, politically-connected corporations. By providing large political campaign contributions and gifts (like trips on corporate jets) large corporations now control how new laws are written and how existing laws are enforced. It should be no surprise that new laws are written to benefit large corporations. Back when I was a child (in the 50's) I was taught and I believed that the job of government was to do the greatest good for the greatest number of people. Today, that's changed. Now, it's my impression that our government writes laws to benefit those who contribute the most money to political parties. In the last few years, there are examples of bills that were actually written directly by large, politically-connected corporations, delivered to Congress, voted on and passed into law. Because laws written today fail to benefit the majority of the people, our real economy is going downhill. Our government prints billions of new dollars each month (millions of dollars each day) but these dollars are not being circulated in our real-world, local-businesses economy. These dollars are circulated on Wall Street. These dollars are circulated between our government and large corporations. These dollars are circulated between foreign central banks in countries outside the U.S. Now that I've framed the problem (political corruption), I have an obligation to do more than just complain. I have an obligation to outline the solution. The solution is to take the money out of politics. Allow all candidates to campaign with an small but equal amount of public money (our money). Remember, the job of politicians is to write the laws that govern our country. By taking the large-corporation money out of politics, politicians will be reminded each day who they are supposed to be working
Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz
- Original Message - From: Rich Comroe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz Before I start sounding like Mark, I need to state that I believe government plays an important helpful (even Ok, now that I stopped snickering... Rich, we're not that far apart... but the difference between is, is that I'm willing to argue what we all know, but often just don't really want to address. That being the obvious outcomes vs the ideal we want. vital) role to promote US industries and provide the best services for the US people. I just think they're doing a bad job in this regard. I fervently believe that regulatory anarchy is the worst thing for us all collectively when it comes to signals that can travel long distances. There's no excuse for lack of regulation which can destroy the utility of our spectrum which can all go the way of CB. There's a terrible need for active FCC watch-dogs to weigh-in to counteract the impact of paid lobbyists. Of course, the major industries have a voice that's orders of magnitude louder. But that's the way it's always been. That's the nature of government for you. The nature has certain observable qualities, and I address those here. That's why I state things like government being lethal. That's its nature, that's just how things are. You people keep confusing that with the notion of promoting anarchy, which I am not.As someone once said eternal vigilance is the price we must pay as a democratic type society to get and keep liberty - and that could be defined as having a reasonably just and responsible government. Eternal Vigilance can be defined, when it comes to WISP's, as standing up for or against everything that impacts our business, our services, or our ability to do either. It is the very nature of government and the governed to be adversarial. I know many of you think that's some kind of politics, but it's not partisan. It's just the nature of the beast, as they say. Anyone who thinks that we must give up something, does nothing but offer payment for empty air. Unless we are EVER defensive, eternally vigilant, we WILL get trod into oblivion. That doesn't take bad people, or ANY hostility on the part of the regulators toward us, that's just the consequences of the motions of the 1500 pound gorilla attempting to walk around the anthills. If we have good enough things to say, and ones that give the regulators the ability to say good things about what they do, then we needed play 'quid pro quo which is just a nice way of saying shady dealings which we all despise. Most of them would rather have something good to say and do something good... It's easier, but until or unless we give them that ammunition, INTACT, it's not going to happen. Rich - Original Message - From: Jack Unger To: WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 11:17 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz John, Regarding your comment: Enabling thousands of new bustling and growing entrepreneurs to build local wireless communication broadband companies is the smartest thing they could do which is why they will not do it. Yes, creating and supporting new entrepreneurs is what government should do but our government has become corrupted (there, I did it... I uttered the C word) by the big money from large, entrenched, politically-connected corporations. By providing large political campaign contributions and gifts (like trips on corporate jets) large corporations now control how new laws are written and how existing laws are enforced. It should be no surprise that new laws are written to benefit large corporations. Back when I was a child (in the 50's) I was taught and I believed that the job of government was to do the greatest good for the greatest number of people. Today, that's changed. Now, it's my impression that our government writes laws to benefit those who contribute the most money to political parties. In the last few years, there are examples of bills that were actually written directly by large, politically-connected corporations, delivered to Congress, voted on and passed into law. Because laws written today fail to benefit the majority of the people, our real economy is going downhill. Our government prints billions of new dollars each month (millions of dollars each day) but these dollars are not being circulated in our real-world, local-businesses economy. These dollars are circulated on Wall Street. These dollars are circulated between our government and large corporations. These dollars are circulated between foreign central banks in countries outside the U.S. Now that I've framed the problem (political corruption), I have an obligation to do more than just complain. I have an obligation to outline
Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz
- Original Message - From: Rick Harnish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 11:15 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz Jack, I do however agree that our elected officials do not control the country anymore. The large enabled Corporations guide policy as they see fit. This allows these corporations to get even bigger and there grasp on policy even stronger. The US is quickly becoming a monopolistic society in my eyes and twenty years from now our children are going to wonder just how ignorant their parents were for allowing this to happen. And someone here called ** me ** a conspiratorial kook... -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz
Rich, You make a good point. As a child, it was easy for me to understand the ideals that I was taught but it was harder for me to see and to understand what was really going on behind the scenes - behind the political curtain so to speak. Now, as an adult, it's become painfully obvious to me how intertwined politics and business really are. They are so intertwined that they appear (to me at least) to be destroying both the financial well-being of our country and the moral leadership that we once believed our country provided in the world. I guess I could say that my eyes have been opened. I now try to watch the FCC and our government at every level (local, state and federal) to try to keep them true to the ideals that I was taught were true and that I still believe they should be upholding. jack Rich Comroe wrote: It's ALWAYS been this way. Back in the 50's when you were taught ideals, rest assured it was the same way (but as a child you weren't aware). Remember that telecommunications had little need for radio back then other than as microwave backhaul ... which never cut a large geographic area due to its directionality by nature. Radio licenses were handed out to commercial business's at modest filing fee because there wasn't perceived to be any large monetary demand. This changed only in the early 1980's as the FCC struggled to find ways to grant licenses for cellular spectrum, which was the first time in history that there had ever been such demand. Yet it still hadn't been discovered how much business's were willing to PAY for licenses until the first round of PCS auctions netted the government $2.3B almost a decade later. But IMO there's been no recent change in government. We each discover the way it works at a particular age, but I've no reason to believe it acted differently in times gone by. Just reflect back on regulations crafted for oil, railroad, steel, coal, or whatever the largest corporations of the day were 100 years ago. The only change is that wireless was never the target of the largest corporations way, way back when. Even though it was one-way, remember how the corporate interests of the TV broadcasters (Sarnoff) influenced the FCC to move the FM broadcast band almost-3/4-of-a-century-ago just as a roadblock to an emerging FM broadcast competition? Imagine getting the FCC to put all early FM broadcasters and manufacturers out of business with a stroke of the pen! I think this was all the way back in the 1930s. Crippled the FM broadcast industry for at least 30 years (until the invention of FM Stereo in the early 1960s). Before I start sounding like Mark, I need to state that I believe government plays an important helpful (even vital) role to promote US industries and provide the best services for the US people. I just think they're doing a bad job in this regard. I fervently believe that regulatory anarchy is the worst thing for us all collectively when it comes to signals that can travel long distances. There's no excuse for lack of regulation which can destroy the utility of our spectrum which can all go the way of CB. There's a terrible need for active FCC watch-dogs to weigh-in to counteract the impact of paid lobbyists. Of course, the major industries have a voice that's orders of magnitude louder. But that's the way it's always been. Rich - Original Message - From: Jack Unger To: WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 11:17 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz John, Regarding your comment: Enabling thousands of new bustling and growing entrepreneurs to build local wireless communication broadband companies is the smartest thing they could do which is why they will not do it. Yes, creating and supporting new entrepreneurs is what government should do but our government has become corrupted (there, I did it... I uttered the C word) by the big money from large, entrenched, politically-connected corporations. By providing large political campaign contributions and gifts (like trips on corporate jets) large corporations now control how new laws are written and how existing laws are enforced. It should be no surprise that new laws are written to benefit large corporations. Back when I was a child (in the 50's) I was taught and I believed that the job of government was to do the greatest good for the greatest number of people. Today, that's changed. Now, it's my impression that our government writes laws to benefit those who contribute the most money to political parties. In the last few years, there are examples of bills that were actually written directly by large, politically-connected corporations, delivered to Congress, voted on and passed into law. Because laws written today fail to benefit the majority of the people, our real economy is going downhill. Our government prints billions
Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz
I've found your posts articulate, intelligent, and often very insightful. I agree with many of things you write. But I can't help but disagree with literally everything you've said here in this post. I'd spent nearly a decade representing a large corporation in public coordination functions with the rest of the wireless industry at large, and government. True, you learn to not believe anything anyone ever says on its face, but if you're successful in what you do you dig for the true motive of everyone. You also learn that the public good is very often served by concensus, even if it's expressed through regulation. It's unfortunate that much of regulation is not an expression of anything but the voice of who has the most money influence. The responsible thing is to play to make it better (spoken as one who tried), but that hardly ever equates to burn it all down. Can you really find no redeeming qualities in anything expressed thru your government? Respectfully, Rich - Original Message - From: Mark Koskenmaki [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 1:22 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz - Original Message - From: Rich Comroe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz Before I start sounding like Mark, I need to state that I believe government plays an important helpful (even Ok, now that I stopped snickering... Rich, we're not that far apart... but the difference between is, is that I'm willing to argue what we all know, but often just don't really want to address. That being the obvious outcomes vs the ideal we want. vital) role to promote US industries and provide the best services for the US people. I just think they're doing a bad job in this regard. I fervently believe that regulatory anarchy is the worst thing for us all collectively when it comes to signals that can travel long distances. There's no excuse for lack of regulation which can destroy the utility of our spectrum which can all go the way of CB. There's a terrible need for active FCC watch-dogs to weigh-in to counteract the impact of paid lobbyists. Of course, the major industries have a voice that's orders of magnitude louder. But that's the way it's always been. That's the nature of government for you. The nature has certain observable qualities, and I address those here. That's why I state things like government being lethal. That's its nature, that's just how things are. You people keep confusing that with the notion of promoting anarchy, which I am not.As someone once said eternal vigilance is the price we must pay as a democratic type society to get and keep liberty - and that could be defined as having a reasonably just and responsible government. Eternal Vigilance can be defined, when it comes to WISP's, as standing up for or against everything that impacts our business, our services, or our ability to do either. It is the very nature of government and the governed to be adversarial. I know many of you think that's some kind of politics, but it's not partisan. It's just the nature of the beast, as they say. Anyone who thinks that we must give up something, does nothing but offer payment for empty air. Unless we are EVER defensive, eternally vigilant, we WILL get trod into oblivion. That doesn't take bad people, or ANY hostility on the part of the regulators toward us, that's just the consequences of the motions of the 1500 pound gorilla attempting to walk around the anthills. If we have good enough things to say, and ones that give the regulators the ability to say good things about what they do, then we needed play 'quid pro quo which is just a nice way of saying shady dealings which we all despise. Most of them would rather have something good to say and do something good... It's easier, but until or unless we give them that ammunition, INTACT, it's not going to happen. Rich - Original Message - From: Jack Unger To: WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 11:17 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz John, Regarding your comment: Enabling thousands of new bustling and growing entrepreneurs to build local wireless communication broadband companies is the smartest thing they could do which is why they will not do it. Yes, creating and supporting new entrepreneurs is what government should do but our government has become corrupted (there, I did it... I uttered the C word) by the big money from large, entrenched, politically-connected corporations. By providing large political campaign contributions and gifts (like trips on corporate jets) large corporations now control how new laws are written and how existing laws are enforced. It should be no surprise that new laws are written
Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz
A very good respectable attitude. I agree with you whole heartedly that FCC (and justice dept policy) has badly damaged our own wireless and wired telecommunications industries in this country (which for so long led the entire planet). That doesn't make them evil ... it just means they've done a bad job at balancing the needs of the country with the politics influence that have dominated the last few decades. I've observed over many years that the positions advocated with money influence from major business's are often not in the interests of the country (or even themselves!). Like most things it's a fault of leadership, not of the institutions. We all need to keep our eyes on them as you so appropriately described. Like everything else in politics, if you don't vote you get the government you deserve. The same goes with the institutions that influence our industry ... the industry has to participate! Those that serve wispa deserve a lot of credit. It's tough to participate as a volunteer beyond the scope of the work necessary to run your own businesses. Hell, many of the years I worked for Moto it was my paid full-time job to participate in whatever industry forum or government committee they saw fit. It's really tough when it's your own time, expense, motivation. Rich - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 1:31 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz Rich, You make a good point. As a child, it was easy for me to understand the ideals that I was taught but it was harder for me to see and to understand what was really going on behind the scenes - behind the political curtain so to speak. Now, as an adult, it's become painfully obvious to me how intertwined politics and business really are. They are so intertwined that they appear (to me at least) to be destroying both the financial well-being of our country and the moral leadership that we once believed our country provided in the world. I guess I could say that my eyes have been opened. I now try to watch the FCC and our government at every level (local, state and federal) to try to keep them true to the ideals that I was taught were true and that I still believe they should be upholding. jack Rich Comroe wrote: It's ALWAYS been this way. Back in the 50's when you were taught ideals, rest assured it was the same way (but as a child you weren't aware). Remember that telecommunications had little need for radio back then other than as microwave backhaul ... which never cut a large geographic area due to its directionality by nature. Radio licenses were handed out to commercial business's at modest filing fee because there wasn't perceived to be any large monetary demand. This changed only in the early 1980's as the FCC struggled to find ways to grant licenses for cellular spectrum, which was the first time in history that there had ever been such demand. Yet it still hadn't been discovered how much business's were willing to PAY for licenses until the first round of PCS auctions netted the government $2.3B almost a decade later. But IMO there's been no recent change in government. We each discover the way it works at a particular age, but I've no reason to believe it acted differently in times gone by. Just reflect back on regulations crafted for oil, railroad, steel, coal, or whatever the largest corporations of the day were 100 years ago. The only change is that wireless was never the target of the largest corporations way, way back when. Even though it was one-way, remember how the corporate interests of the TV broadcasters (Sarnoff) influenced the FCC to move the FM broadcast band almost-3/4-of-a-century-ago just as a roadblock to an emerging FM broadcast competition? Imagine getting the FCC to put all early FM broadcasters and manufacturers out of business with a stroke of the pen! I think this was all the way back in the 1930s. Crippled the FM broadcast industry for at least 30 years (until the invention of FM Stereo in the early 1960s). Before I start sounding like Mark, I need to state that I believe government plays an important helpful (even vital) role to promote US industries and provide the best services for the US people. I just think they're doing a bad job in this regard. I fervently believe that regulatory anarchy is the worst thing for us all collectively when it comes to signals that can travel long distances. There's no excuse for lack of regulation which can destroy the utility of our spectrum which can all go the way of CB. There's a terrible need for active FCC watch-dogs to weigh-in to counteract the impact of paid lobbyists. Of course, the major industries have a voice that's orders of magnitude louder. But that's the way it's always been. Rich - Original Message - From: Jack Unger To: WISPA General
RE: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz
-Original Message- From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: 4/25/07 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz Rich, You make a good point. As a child, it was easy for me to understand the ideals that I was taught but it was harder for me to see and to understand what was really going on behind the scenes - behind the political curtain so to speak. Now, as an adult, it's become painfully obvious to me how intertwined politics and business really are. They are so intertwined that they appear (to me at least) to be destroying both the financial well-being of our country and the moral leadership that we once believed our country provided in the world. I guess I could say that my eyes have been opened. I now try to watch the FCC and our government at every level (local, state and federal) to try to keep them true to the ideals that I was taught were true and that I still believe they should be upholding. jack Rich Comroe wrote: It's ALWAYS been this way. Back in the 50's when you were taught ideals, rest assured it was the same way (but as a child you weren't aware). Remember that telecommunications had little need for radio back then other than as microwave backhaul ... which never cut a large geographic area due to its directionality by nature. Radio licenses were handed out to commercial business's at modest filing fee because there wasn't perceived to be any large monetary demand. This changed only in the early 1980's as the FCC struggled to find ways to grant licenses for cellular spectrum, which was the first time in history that there had ever been such demand. Yet it still hadn't been discovered how much business's were willing to PAY for licenses until the first round of PCS auctions netted the government $2.3B almost a decade later. But IMO there's been no recent change in government. We each discover the way it works at a particular age, but I've no reason to believe it acted differently in times gone by. Just reflect back on regulations crafted for oil, railroad, steel, coal, or whatever the largest corporations of the day were 100 years ago. The only change is that wireless was never the target of the largest corporations way, way back when. Even though it was one-way, remember how the corporate interests of the TV broadcasters (Sarnoff) influenced the FCC to move the FM broadcast band almost-3/4-of-a-century-ago just as a roadblock to an emerging FM broadcast competition? Imagine getting the FCC to put all early FM broadcasters and manufacturers out of business with a stroke of the pen! I think this was all the way back in the 1930s. Crippled the FM broadcast industry for at least 30 years (until the invention of FM Stereo in the early 1960s). Before I start sounding like Mark, I need to state that I believe government plays an important helpful (even vital) role to promote US industries and provide the best services for the US people. I just think they're doing a bad job in this regard. I fervently believe that regulatory anarchy is the worst thing for us all collectively when it comes to signals that can travel long distances. There's no excuse for lack of regulation which can destroy the utility of our spectrum which can all go the way of CB. There's a terrible need for active FCC watch-dogs to weigh-in to counteract the impact of paid lobbyists. Of course, the major industries have a voice that's orders of magnitude louder. But that's the way it's always been. Rich - Original Message - From: Jack Unger To: WISPA General List Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 11:17 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz John, Regarding your comment: Enabling thousands of new bustling and growing entrepreneurs to build local wireless communication broadband companies is the smartest thing they could do which is why they will not do it. Yes, creating and supporting new entrepreneurs is what government should do but our government has become corrupted (there, I did it... I uttered the C word) by the big money from large, entrenched, politically-connected corporations. By providing large political campaign contributions and gifts (like trips on corporate jets) large corporations now control how new laws are written and how existing laws are enforced. It should be no surprise that new laws are written to benefit large corporations. Back when I was a child (in the 50's) I was taught and I believed that the job of government was to do the greatest good for the greatest number of people. Today, that's changed. Now, it's my impression that our government writes laws to benefit those who contribute the most money to political parties. In the last few years, there are examples of bills that were actually written directly by large
Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz
Now exactly why some people have to say I'm promoting anarchy, or that I'm against all government, or calling government universally evil, I dunno. Maybe you could explain it to me. Here's where I get the impression, from things you've written such as these few excerpts below. Government policy MUST regulate wireless industries for the public good. Not really. Do you really truly believe that everyone always benefits from your having no restriction whatsoever on what you choose to do? I respect your yes. Absolutely. opinions immensely but I just can't help believe that deep down you know from your own career experiences that this has never really been true under all circumstances. I don't think I'm reading much between lines, but I guess I could be as guilty as anyone. If I have, you've my humblest, sincerest appologies. I knew better even as I was writing the crack which mentioned Ore/Wash. It was a humble attempt at humor for all the anti-gov militia's that always seem to be from there. I know better than to write such crap, but it sometimes leaks out into my writing. Study some history of various industries (not restricted to just wireless) and you will find that lack of government guidance / or bad government guidance (read: lack of vitally needed regulation) hurts everyone. We've Could you provide a few examples? I can't think of any. This is exactly the disconnect. You've often written that you want total freedom from regulation to do whatever you want, and that this is somehow a historically proven axiom that always works out for the best. Life doesn't work that way. In connection with other threads I've written at length on how the justice dept forcibly knocked down the most advanced telecommunications system in the world to its current position way down in the pack ... because of a complete fantasy that smaller competing phone companies that needed to scratch just to stay in business could somehow maintain a leadership position for the American people and American industry. Total hogwash in a world where virtually every other country has a consolidated PTT (which immediately began gaining ground and passed the United States in leadership, technology, features, etc., etc.). This badly hurt you, me, and every other American. I've written at length in other threads how the FCC (with several large US manufacturers) took us down from our #1 leadership position in the world in cellular technology and service by totally reversing its own previous position on the standards that had at one time made AMPS the world leader. This has badly hurt every American that uses a cellphone, and totally eliminated all US manufacturers out of world leadership (and yet it was originally advocated by US manufacturers ... where my opinion comes from that business's don't necessarily know what's in their own best interest). There's many examples of business's that gambled away their own market position and future success by choosing to not go with a voluntary market standard for some short-sighted business decision ... I got'ta believe in your years of background you know many of these. Where wireless is involved it's doubly important for the FCC to impose standards of operation, just like it did for amps (the exact opposite of the way it behaved for 2nd generation digital cellular and beyond). When the CB band was expanded (about 30 yrs ago) the FCC was encouraged by business's that didn't know their own best interest to abandon tighter performance standards that had been formulated (where an entire band can become unusable). There's no shortage of examples. The more you look the more you'll see. You can't best serve the American people best unless you can serve the most people. Solutions that interfere with one another cannot ever be considered as serving the best interests of the market. Success requires some discipline, regulation, standards, or whatever you want to call it. It's best if they are selected by voluntary participation which leads to concensus of the industry itself. But they've got'ta be mandatory, meaning they've got'ta be enforced by the government. We don't need to argue this, and this isn't the place for it. But the argument displaces good conversation, I guess I'll admit you're right. The thread got kind of hijacked off topic and I appologize for playing a part in that. However I find it good conversation and I enjoy discussion with people like yourself who are skilled in the industry and can express themselves well (you certainly do). I guess I just enjoy your discussion!:-) I'd happily discuss anything on the topic off-list as I feel as strongly about it as you seem to. best regards, Rich - Original Message - From: Mark Koskenmaki [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 2:38 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz
Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz
- Original Message - From: Rich Comroe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 2:07 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Open Meeting on 700 MHz Now exactly why some people have to say I'm promoting anarchy, or that I'm against all government, or calling government universally evil, I dunno. Maybe you could explain it to me. Here's where I get the impression, from things you've written such as these few excerpts below. Government policy MUST regulate wireless industries for the public good. Not really. Uh, Rich... I specifically stated that the industry doesn't need to be controlled. The RF aspects are subject to regulation, as I think perhaps we pretty much all agree they should be. Do you really truly believe that everyone always benefits from your having no restriction whatsoever on what you choose to do? I respect your yes. Absolutely. Why must ** I ** be regulated? What possible public harm do you think me being in the internet business without federal oversight could happen? Too many people with broadband? Too cheap of prices? Too much profit? Too much profit lost by others? If I am free to conduct my business unhindered, it seems the only person who could be hurt in any way is my competition, and customers will benefit. opinions immensely but I just can't help believe that deep down you know from your own career experiences that this has never really been true under all circumstances. I don't think I'm reading much between lines, but I guess I could be as guilty as anyone. If I have, you've my humblest, sincerest appologies. I knew better even as I was writing the crack which mentioned Ore/Wash. It was a humble attempt at humor for all the anti-gov militia's that always seem to be from there. I know better than to write such crap, but it sometimes leaks out into my writing. Naw, they come from Idaho and Montana. Well, heck, I'd live in either if I could find a way to earn a living. Probably for the same reason... You get left alone in both states. Well, Montana's getting ruined by all the insane Californians, environmental wackos, and movie stars moving and destroying the state, but it's still pretty decent. Study some history of various industries (not restricted to just wireless) and you will find that lack of government guidance / or bad government guidance (read: lack of vitally needed regulation) hurts everyone. We've Could you provide a few examples? I can't think of any. This is exactly the disconnect. You've often written that you want total freedom from regulation to do whatever you want, and that this is somehow a historically proven axiom that always works out for the best. Life doesn't work that way. In connection with other threads I've written at length on how the justice dept forcibly knocked down the most advanced telecommunications system in the world to its current position way down in the pack ... because of a complete fantasy that smaller competing phone companies that needed to scratch just to stay in business could somehow maintain a leadership position for the American people and American industry. Total hogwash in a world where virtually every other country has The way I see it, the US innovated not a single thing, and we had completely unchanging and calcified technologically, in the POTS system. I can't imagine this being good. What you saw was that there was almost NO consumer market for phone products. a consolidated PTT (which immediately began gaining ground and passed the United States in leadership, technology, features, etc., etc.). This badly hurt you, me, and every other American. I've written at length in other I can't imagine how. I have far better service, it costs a small fraction of what it used to, and now I have options galore, for phone service. How you can call this bad, I can't imagine. I think it's the best thing to happen to Ma Bell. threads how the FCC (with several large US manufacturers) took us down from our #1 leadership position in the world in cellular technology and service by totally reversing its own previous position on the standards that had at one time made AMPS the world leader. This has badly hurt every American that uses a cellphone, and totally eliminated all US manufacturers out of world leadership (and yet it was originally advocated by US manufacturers ... where my opinion comes from that business's don't necessarily know what's in their own best interest). There's many examples of business's I think you're all wrong. The commoditization of cellular phones is what turned the industry from small potatoes, overly expensive products, to commodity cell phones produced by low-value commodity production systems. Just like we no longer have to pay a month's wages to buy a rather primitive TV. Now you can buy a great one for peanuts,. and Americans aren't
