RE: Alvarion (was Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax?)
Patrick, It is my understanding that there isn't a 3.5 GHz profile for 802.16e... -Charles ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax?
I was talking Investment form Moto to CLWR. NextNet is 2Watts without Filters and 5 With. Mike Bushard, Jr Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC 320-256-WISP (9477) 320-256-9478 Fax -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Thomas Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 11:53 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax? There specs said 36dbm ( 5 watts ) I thought On Oct 7, 2007, at 6:48 PM, Mike Bushard, Jr wrote: I think it was 300Mil, not 5. Mike Bushard, Jr Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC 320-256-WISP (9477) 320-256-9478 Fax -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Thomas Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 6:00 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax? All, Bear in mind, Clearwire uses their own base station technology, which is mostly Nextnet base stations ( now motorola ) . Nextnet's performance is not wimax, just really high power base stations and CPE. 4 QAM / 2 WATT output power / 8dbi directional antenna on the CPE and I think around 10 watts on the base in power? ( originally was nextnet, then mccaw bought them for 50 million, then sold it to Motorola in exchange for 500 million in investment ) - Jeff On Oct 4, 2007, at 11:04 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2.5 has great range penetration. ClearWire, as an example, had solid indoor coverage 2 miles away. I live in an apartment complex thats out of coverage area, and it still works - I'm in the bottom floor of an apartment complex, my unit has another unit behind it, a 4 acre forest conservation area, I stick it in my window, get 2/5 bars on it, and still get 1Mbps... Outdoor, could be many more miles, but the ClearWire indoor-only self-install business model seems superior to all other WISP models, unless you're selling a super-premium business service (fiber/T1 replacement). We basically sell Clearwire for all residential, and use our own wireless network for premium business customers only (149/month minimum). On Thu, 4 Oct 2007 12:56:43 -0400, John Valenti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just curious if anyone has seen a coverage map that compares WiFi and WiMax? I spent a little bit of time researching WiMax, but decided I would be unlikely to have a license and to just go with what I have that mostly works (unlicensed). But I would like to know what WiMax means in a rural, tree filled environment. As a novice WISP (about 18 months now), I can only hope for good coverage with 2.4GHz to maybe a mile. A rare house might have LOS farther than that, but generally there will be enough trees in the way by a mile to block my signal. (this is using farm grain legs/ silos for the AP, so maybe 150' max AGL) If I switch to 900MHz, maybe the distance gets out to 2.5 miles. Would a 2.5GHz Wimax AP push the signal much better thru trees? I suppose it would make a difference what was at the customer end - a laptop with a WiMax card vs a fixed, outdoor radio. And does AP height help a lot? I don't see an advantage to paying commercial tower rates to get above 200' in my situation, but maybe that changes with WiMax. - - -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** - - -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - - -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - - -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http:// www.ispcon.com/register.php ** - - -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - - -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org
RE: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax?
And trust me, they need filters with 2 watts. Mike Bushard, Jr Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC 320-256-WISP (9477) 320-256-9478 Fax -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Thomas Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 11:53 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax? There specs said 36dbm ( 5 watts ) I thought On Oct 7, 2007, at 6:48 PM, Mike Bushard, Jr wrote: I think it was 300Mil, not 5. Mike Bushard, Jr Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC 320-256-WISP (9477) 320-256-9478 Fax -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Thomas Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 6:00 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax? All, Bear in mind, Clearwire uses their own base station technology, which is mostly Nextnet base stations ( now motorola ) . Nextnet's performance is not wimax, just really high power base stations and CPE. 4 QAM / 2 WATT output power / 8dbi directional antenna on the CPE and I think around 10 watts on the base in power? ( originally was nextnet, then mccaw bought them for 50 million, then sold it to Motorola in exchange for 500 million in investment ) - Jeff On Oct 4, 2007, at 11:04 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2.5 has great range penetration. ClearWire, as an example, had solid indoor coverage 2 miles away. I live in an apartment complex thats out of coverage area, and it still works - I'm in the bottom floor of an apartment complex, my unit has another unit behind it, a 4 acre forest conservation area, I stick it in my window, get 2/5 bars on it, and still get 1Mbps... Outdoor, could be many more miles, but the ClearWire indoor-only self-install business model seems superior to all other WISP models, unless you're selling a super-premium business service (fiber/T1 replacement). We basically sell Clearwire for all residential, and use our own wireless network for premium business customers only (149/month minimum). On Thu, 4 Oct 2007 12:56:43 -0400, John Valenti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just curious if anyone has seen a coverage map that compares WiFi and WiMax? I spent a little bit of time researching WiMax, but decided I would be unlikely to have a license and to just go with what I have that mostly works (unlicensed). But I would like to know what WiMax means in a rural, tree filled environment. As a novice WISP (about 18 months now), I can only hope for good coverage with 2.4GHz to maybe a mile. A rare house might have LOS farther than that, but generally there will be enough trees in the way by a mile to block my signal. (this is using farm grain legs/ silos for the AP, so maybe 150' max AGL) If I switch to 900MHz, maybe the distance gets out to 2.5 miles. Would a 2.5GHz Wimax AP push the signal much better thru trees? I suppose it would make a difference what was at the customer end - a laptop with a WiMax card vs a fixed, outdoor radio. And does AP height help a lot? I don't see an advantage to paying commercial tower rates to get above 200' in my situation, but maybe that changes with WiMax. - - -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** - - -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - - -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - - -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http:// www.ispcon.com/register.php ** - - -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - - -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: Alvarion (was Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax?)
Patrick Leary wrote: On the Cisco note Matt, Cisco is making ASN gateways for WiMAX and so far the only ones they have slide into our WiMAX macro base stations, so we have and are doing considerable work with them to integrate some of their pieces into ours. Can you expand on that? The Cisco platforms we are running for our network support the ASN gateway. I'd like to understand what advantages this setup has as opposed to just using Ethernet to connect a base station to my Cisco. But along with that point, the only way operators will be able to participate in that part is if they go with an 802.16e version of 3.65 GHz product. The first WiMAX products to hit the band will be based on the old 802.16d standard. While that will provide some of the service benefits of WiMAX, it will not have all the goodies 802.16e will have nor should it be able to achieve the same link budgets that can be achieved with 802.16e. What goodies are you referring to with e? Based on the results of our testing with 3.65 we don't think mobility is going to make much sense in the band. Further, it doesn't appear indoor (self-install) SMs are going to do well beyond 1 mile from the base station. All of which is fine with us. We just want the spectral efficiency and the additional spectrum. 802.16d gets us that I believe. On the regulatory side, vendors also have to solve the unrestricted contention requirement or else your gear will be relegated only to the lower 25 MHz. I suspect some will try to come out with proprietary means of dealing with this, but with that goes some of the standardization. That's what 802.16h set out to fix when the task group was formed 2.5 years ago and it is what we support. That would be an interesting development. I suspect we will see 802.11n-based gear available for the band soon as it should be able to operate in the entire 50Mhz. -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax?
This is a goofy debate Jeff. As you say, I work for 1 company. But, um, let's look at that one company: Along with our good legacy business we have been living and breathing WiMAX before it had the name WiMAX. We have sold more WiMAX 802.16d multipoint than everyone else combined. We currently have a 60% share of 802.16e. We have held the number two slot (behind Intel) in the WiMAX Forum since it has been constituted in its sub-11 GHz role. We hold the official liaison role between ETSI HiperMAN and the IEEE. We chair 802.16h. Etc., etc. and there are other reasons including things most in my own company won't even know unless they work here at a high level. In other words, you can bet we know real what every other competitor, large and small, is doing and has done and it is part of jobs to know that stuff in more intimate detail than even most other insiders know and months before most outside know anything. And we certainly know where this technology is heading because we are among the main companies charting the course for Pete's sake. It is just the reality of our work and our position in this space, not because we are necessarily smarter. Kind of like even though I like wine and good beer, I know I'd be foolish to try to convince other social drinkers of certain subtleties or even basic points about ingredients or what's next in wine or beer after a brew master or head sommelier at the most inside and best selling beverage maker weighed in. Switch to networking and routing Jeff and I'll gladly shut up and concede as it is not my area of expertise and you'd probably eat my lunch on the topic, but on this subject you can toss around as many techno babble terms like MOFO as you'd like, but you simply do not have the perspective or understanding to pull them all together, combine them with the market machinations and developments to grasp the whole. The end result is that your just-enough-to-make-you-dangerous knowledge might lead even less knowledgeable people to poor decision making. Anyway, people here are hopefully smart enough to know which viewpoint has the most credence in terms where this technology is headed and I really should not bang my head against the wall any longer. Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Thomas Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:09 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax? All, Again, remember that patrick works for 1 company while I personally have the freedom as a consumer to talk to EVERYONE making equipment. yes a licensed version will look like an unlicensed, but will be just limited in output power. What is the point however of using 802.16e over 802.16d if you don't have the proper spectrum? Cmon! 1048 ofdm? still gotta go outdoors @ 5.8ghz! I just ran a link budget ( for fun and games ) - utilizing a high powered, high capacity base station solution @ 5.8 ghz for a NLOS cpe. This company uses beamforming, 2 x 2 mimo, uplink subchannelization, and guess what the effective range per cell for an indoor, window mounted CPE? .5KM @ 75% penetration @ bpsk 1/2. .25km for a self install @ 90% penetration. 802.16e doesn't always mean mobile, but some companies are coming out with solutions where there isnt backwards compatibility to 802.16d ( dont ask me why ) It all depends on who the MFR is, ( Axcellera is one, Solectek another ) The point is 802.16d is still DAMN sweet gear that can get you greater scaleability ( try up to 1000 subscribers per sector, or 8000 subscribers per base ) Carrier grade voice services, video services, T-1 grade internet, etc. - Jeff On Oct 8, 2007, at 10:08 AM, Patrick Leary wrote: Another inaccurate post. Jeff assumes that a UL WiMAX 5.8 GHz system will look like a licensed version. He also assumes 802.16e means mobile -- it does not, 802.16e systems can be mobile, fixed, nomadic or combinations of these. The WiMAX Forum will eventually have an 802.16e profile for 5 GHz, but the systems themselves will be designed for the realities of UL in 5 GHz (so they will be designed for fixed). As such, they will not have lots of the expensive things needed in a mobile WiMAX network like ASN gateways, AAA servers, etc. At this point, it is probably best to ignore Jeff's posts regarding WiMAX. They are thus far simply wildly off the mark. Patrick Leary AVP, Market Development Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Thomas Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 3:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax? 802.16e in 5.8ghz would be absolutely the biggest waste of money ever as you wouldn't get a true mobile network but your network costs would be around, yaknow, 300k for a market of 20k people
Alvarion (was Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax?)
Now that we have read your post regarding Alvarion's market leading position and your insight into the entire market, I'd like to know your thoughts on using WiMAX in 5Ghz and 3.65Ghz. It is fair to say that most readers of this list won't be gaining access to the ideal spectrum profiles for WiMAX. That leaves 5Ghz and 3.65Ghz. WiMAX vendors are offering or planning on offering WiMAX like equipment for these spectrum ranges. As a side note, I'd also like you to comment on plans to integrate WiMAX base stations into the network better than they are today. For example, why not produce a 7600 line card for your base station? Or do we have to wait for Cisco to complete their WiMAX acquisition for that? -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: Alvarion (was Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax?)
This isn't the wireless line card, but several vendors at WiMax World were showing off the Cisco ASN Gateway (or at least a 7600 with a SAMI card): http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/ps8738/products_data_sheet0900aecd806cdb72.html But you probably knew that. Best, -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: Alvarion (was Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax?)
On the Cisco note Matt, Cisco is making ASN gateways for WiMAX and so far the only ones they have slide into our WiMAX macro base stations, so we have and are doing considerable work with them to integrate some of their pieces into ours. Regarding 3.65 MHz, in spite of the ruling's imperfections, I think it presents a great opportunity. It certainly will be much cleaner spectrum than we are all used to and it gives the WISP market its best and first real opportunity to implement business models with limited truck rolls, at least relatively close in to the base stations. And if Intel eventually turns on the ability to use the band within its chipsets then the opportunity gets even more attractive. But along with that point, the only way operators will be able to participate in that part is if they go with an 802.16e version of 3.65 GHz product. The first WiMAX products to hit the band will be based on the old 802.16d standard. While that will provide some of the service benefits of WiMAX, it will not have all the goodies 802.16e will have nor should it be able to achieve the same link budgets that can be achieved with 802.16e. On the regulatory side, vendors also have to solve the unrestricted contention requirement or else your gear will be relegated only to the lower 25 MHz. I suspect some will try to come out with proprietary means of dealing with this, but with that goes some of the standardization. That's what 802.16h set out to fix when the task group was formed 2.5 years ago and it is what we support. Another set of hurdles are the exclusion zones. These zones are 80 miles in radius -- that's over 20,000 square miles per license. The FCC does not require the satcom license holders to work with you and you can't deploy along much of the eastern and western seaboard without their approval. And should they agree to work with you, the FCC does not tell them how to do so, so they can require anything of you they wish pretty much, and that might make such areas too onerous to deploy. In the mass of the interior though you won't have to deal with this since there are no zones except near Louisiana and Dallas, Texas. In any event, it is likely that WISPs will have several choices for this band beginning as soon as later this quarter. The decisions you'll need to make: exactly what type of business model do you want; do you only want to stay in the lower 25 MHz; what mix of self-install install and outdoor units will make the model work for these higher cost WiMAX base stations; do you want to be able to support laptops in the network; what model makes your network the most valuable; what is your planned exit strategy? If you only want pure fixed, maybe the old 802.16d versions you are about to see will suffice. If you want more, you might want to wait a quarter more or so for 802.16e versions to appear. Patrick Leary AVP, Market Development Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 5:20 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Alvarion (was Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax?) Now that we have read your post regarding Alvarion's market leading position and your insight into the entire market, I'd like to know your thoughts on using WiMAX in 5Ghz and 3.65Ghz. It is fair to say that most readers of this list won't be gaining access to the ideal spectrum profiles for WiMAX. That leaves 5Ghz and 3.65Ghz. WiMAX vendors are offering or planning on offering WiMAX like equipment for these spectrum ranges. As a side note, I'd also like you to comment on plans to integrate WiMAX base stations into the network better than they are today. For example, why not produce a 7600 line card for your base station? Or do we have to wait for Cisco to complete their WiMAX acquisition for that? -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(190
Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax?
muliple operating frequency overlay- MOFO Atca ( telco term for a standard they use for rack mounted blade base station equipment, with interoperability, you can potentially have a base station unit with a Airspan blade for 3.65, an aperto blade for 5.4, and an alvarion blade for 5.8 ) Internationally this applies to most 3.5 ghz solutions. SDR- software defined radio. This makes it so manufacturers can very easily offer additional features like 2x2 mimo, beamforming, and quickly port to other frequencies without needing to manufacture new ODU's and IDU's. On Oct 7, 2007, at 7:01 AM, Dylan Oliver wrote: MOFO? ATCA? SDR? On 10/6/07, Jeffrey Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 802.16e in 5.8ghz would be absolutely the biggest waste of money ever as you wouldn't get a true mobile network but your network costs would be around, yaknow, 300k for a market of 20k people for just BASE station equipment. The way to go if you are really worried about upward compatibility ( and you own licenses or want to lease spectrum ) is to build a MOFO network using ATCA solutions, but still you are talking for just 4 sectors of Wimax with scaleablity to multiple bands and sectors, 50k per base station to start. The key is going to market with a solution that has both a SDR system but low cost initially. - jeff On Oct 4, 2007, at 8:23 PM, Senthil wrote: We did consider deploying Wi-Max 802.16e (802.16d totally out of the question) in 5.8 GHz but checking on the technical aspects of the standard Wi-Max still seems to be rather immature as most aspects are similar to 802.11a/g. Then again this applies only to the initial Wave-1 compliant Wi-Max devices but once wave-2 standardized equipment comes we should have smarter antenna systems (MIMO,beamforming) with which we will definitely get a better performance. So for the time being I think in terms of performance, pricing and technology it's better to stick to Wi-Fi! Senthil John Valenti wrote: Just curious if anyone has seen a coverage map that compares WiFi and WiMax? I spent a little bit of time researching WiMax, but decided I would be unlikely to have a license and to just go with what I have that mostly works (unlicensed). But I would like to know what WiMax means in a rural, tree filled environment. As a novice WISP (about 18 months now), I can only hope for good coverage with 2.4GHz to maybe a mile. A rare house might have LOS farther than that, but generally there will be enough trees in the way by a mile to block my signal. (this is using farm grain legs/ silos for the AP, so maybe 150' max AGL) If I switch to 900MHz, maybe the distance gets out to 2.5 miles. Would a 2.5GHz Wimax AP push the signal much better thru trees? I suppose it would make a difference what was at the customer end - a laptop with a WiMax card vs a fixed, outdoor radio. And does AP height help a lot? I don't see an advantage to paying commercial tower rates to get above 200' in my situation, but maybe that changes with WiMax. --- -- --- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http:// www.ispcon.com/register.php ** --- -- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- -- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http:// www.ispcon.com/register.php ** -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass
Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax?
There specs said 36dbm ( 5 watts ) I thought On Oct 7, 2007, at 6:48 PM, Mike Bushard, Jr wrote: I think it was 300Mil, not 5. Mike Bushard, Jr Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC 320-256-WISP (9477) 320-256-9478 Fax -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Thomas Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 6:00 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax? All, Bear in mind, Clearwire uses their own base station technology, which is mostly Nextnet base stations ( now motorola ) . Nextnet's performance is not wimax, just really high power base stations and CPE. 4 QAM / 2 WATT output power / 8dbi directional antenna on the CPE and I think around 10 watts on the base in power? ( originally was nextnet, then mccaw bought them for 50 million, then sold it to Motorola in exchange for 500 million in investment ) - Jeff On Oct 4, 2007, at 11:04 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2.5 has great range penetration. ClearWire, as an example, had solid indoor coverage 2 miles away. I live in an apartment complex thats out of coverage area, and it still works - I'm in the bottom floor of an apartment complex, my unit has another unit behind it, a 4 acre forest conservation area, I stick it in my window, get 2/5 bars on it, and still get 1Mbps... Outdoor, could be many more miles, but the ClearWire indoor-only self-install business model seems superior to all other WISP models, unless you're selling a super-premium business service (fiber/T1 replacement). We basically sell Clearwire for all residential, and use our own wireless network for premium business customers only (149/month minimum). On Thu, 4 Oct 2007 12:56:43 -0400, John Valenti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just curious if anyone has seen a coverage map that compares WiFi and WiMax? I spent a little bit of time researching WiMax, but decided I would be unlikely to have a license and to just go with what I have that mostly works (unlicensed). But I would like to know what WiMax means in a rural, tree filled environment. As a novice WISP (about 18 months now), I can only hope for good coverage with 2.4GHz to maybe a mile. A rare house might have LOS farther than that, but generally there will be enough trees in the way by a mile to block my signal. (this is using farm grain legs/ silos for the AP, so maybe 150' max AGL) If I switch to 900MHz, maybe the distance gets out to 2.5 miles. Would a 2.5GHz Wimax AP push the signal much better thru trees? I suppose it would make a difference what was at the customer end - a laptop with a WiMax card vs a fixed, outdoor radio. And does AP height help a lot? I don't see an advantage to paying commercial tower rates to get above 200' in my situation, but maybe that changes with WiMax. - - -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** - - -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - - -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - - -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http:// www.ispcon.com/register.php ** - - -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - - -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php
Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax?
All, Again, remember that patrick works for 1 company while I personally have the freedom as a consumer to talk to EVERYONE making equipment. yes a licensed version will look like an unlicensed, but will be just limited in output power. What is the point however of using 802.16e over 802.16d if you don't have the proper spectrum? Cmon! 1048 ofdm? still gotta go outdoors @ 5.8ghz! I just ran a link budget ( for fun and games ) - utilizing a high powered, high capacity base station solution @ 5.8 ghz for a NLOS cpe. This company uses beamforming, 2 x 2 mimo, uplink subchannelization, and guess what the effective range per cell for an indoor, window mounted CPE? .5KM @ 75% penetration @ bpsk 1/2. .25km for a self install @ 90% penetration. 802.16e doesn't always mean mobile, but some companies are coming out with solutions where there isnt backwards compatibility to 802.16d ( dont ask me why ) It all depends on who the MFR is, ( Axcellera is one, Solectek another ) The point is 802.16d is still DAMN sweet gear that can get you greater scaleability ( try up to 1000 subscribers per sector, or 8000 subscribers per base ) Carrier grade voice services, video services, T-1 grade internet, etc. - Jeff On Oct 8, 2007, at 10:08 AM, Patrick Leary wrote: Another inaccurate post. Jeff assumes that a UL WiMAX 5.8 GHz system will look like a licensed version. He also assumes 802.16e means mobile -- it does not, 802.16e systems can be mobile, fixed, nomadic or combinations of these. The WiMAX Forum will eventually have an 802.16e profile for 5 GHz, but the systems themselves will be designed for the realities of UL in 5 GHz (so they will be designed for fixed). As such, they will not have lots of the expensive things needed in a mobile WiMAX network like ASN gateways, AAA servers, etc. At this point, it is probably best to ignore Jeff's posts regarding WiMAX. They are thus far simply wildly off the mark. Patrick Leary AVP, Market Development Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Thomas Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 3:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax? 802.16e in 5.8ghz would be absolutely the biggest waste of money ever as you wouldn't get a true mobile network but your network costs would be around, yaknow, 300k for a market of 20k people for just BASE station equipment. The way to go if you are really worried about upward compatibility ( and you own licenses or want to lease spectrum ) is to build a MOFO network using ATCA solutions, but still you are talking for just 4 sectors of Wimax with scaleablity to multiple bands and sectors, 50k per base station to start. The key is going to market with a solution that has both a SDR system but low cost initially. - jeff On Oct 4, 2007, at 8:23 PM, Senthil wrote: We did consider deploying Wi-Max 802.16e (802.16d totally out of the question) in 5.8 GHz but checking on the technical aspects of the standard Wi-Max still seems to be rather immature as most aspects are similar to 802.11a/g. Then again this applies only to the initial Wave-1 compliant Wi-Max devices but once wave-2 standardized equipment comes we should have smarter antenna systems (MIMO,beamforming) with which we will definitely get a better performance. So for the time being I think in terms of performance, pricing and technology it's better to stick to Wi-Fi! Senthil John Valenti wrote: Just curious if anyone has seen a coverage map that compares WiFi and WiMax? I spent a little bit of time researching WiMax, but decided I would be unlikely to have a license and to just go with what I have that mostly works (unlicensed). But I would like to know what WiMax means in a rural, tree filled environment. As a novice WISP (about 18 months now), I can only hope for good coverage with 2.4GHz to maybe a mile. A rare house might have LOS farther than that, but generally there will be enough trees in the way by a mile to block my signal. (this is using farm grain legs/ silos for the AP, so maybe 150' max AGL) If I switch to 900MHz, maybe the distance gets out to 2.5 miles. Would a 2.5GHz Wimax AP push the signal much better thru trees? I suppose it would make a difference what was at the customer end - a laptop with a WiMax card vs a fixed, outdoor radio. And does AP height help a lot? I don't see an advantage to paying commercial tower rates to get above 200' in my situation, but maybe that changes with WiMax. - --- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code
RE: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax?
Another inaccurate post. Jeff assumes that a UL WiMAX 5.8 GHz system will look like a licensed version. He also assumes 802.16e means mobile -- it does not, 802.16e systems can be mobile, fixed, nomadic or combinations of these. The WiMAX Forum will eventually have an 802.16e profile for 5 GHz, but the systems themselves will be designed for the realities of UL in 5 GHz (so they will be designed for fixed). As such, they will not have lots of the expensive things needed in a mobile WiMAX network like ASN gateways, AAA servers, etc. At this point, it is probably best to ignore Jeff's posts regarding WiMAX. They are thus far simply wildly off the mark. Patrick Leary AVP, Market Development Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Thomas Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 3:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax? 802.16e in 5.8ghz would be absolutely the biggest waste of money ever as you wouldn't get a true mobile network but your network costs would be around, yaknow, 300k for a market of 20k people for just BASE station equipment. The way to go if you are really worried about upward compatibility ( and you own licenses or want to lease spectrum ) is to build a MOFO network using ATCA solutions, but still you are talking for just 4 sectors of Wimax with scaleablity to multiple bands and sectors, 50k per base station to start. The key is going to market with a solution that has both a SDR system but low cost initially. - jeff On Oct 4, 2007, at 8:23 PM, Senthil wrote: We did consider deploying Wi-Max 802.16e (802.16d totally out of the question) in 5.8 GHz but checking on the technical aspects of the standard Wi-Max still seems to be rather immature as most aspects are similar to 802.11a/g. Then again this applies only to the initial Wave-1 compliant Wi-Max devices but once wave-2 standardized equipment comes we should have smarter antenna systems (MIMO,beamforming) with which we will definitely get a better performance. So for the time being I think in terms of performance, pricing and technology it's better to stick to Wi-Fi! Senthil John Valenti wrote: Just curious if anyone has seen a coverage map that compares WiFi and WiMax? I spent a little bit of time researching WiMax, but decided I would be unlikely to have a license and to just go with what I have that mostly works (unlicensed). But I would like to know what WiMax means in a rural, tree filled environment. As a novice WISP (about 18 months now), I can only hope for good coverage with 2.4GHz to maybe a mile. A rare house might have LOS farther than that, but generally there will be enough trees in the way by a mile to block my signal. (this is using farm grain legs/ silos for the AP, so maybe 150' max AGL) If I switch to 900MHz, maybe the distance gets out to 2.5 miles. Would a 2.5GHz Wimax AP push the signal much better thru trees? I suppose it would make a difference what was at the customer end - a laptop with a WiMax card vs a fixed, outdoor radio. And does AP height help a lot? I don't see an advantage to paying commercial tower rates to get above 200' in my situation, but maybe that changes with WiMax. - --- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http:// www.ispcon.com/register.php ** - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http:// www.ispcon.com/register.php ** -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http
Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax?
All, Bear in mind, Clearwire uses their own base station technology, which is mostly Nextnet base stations ( now motorola ) . Nextnet's performance is not wimax, just really high power base stations and CPE. 4 QAM / 2 WATT output power / 8dbi directional antenna on the CPE and I think around 10 watts on the base in power? ( originally was nextnet, then mccaw bought them for 50 million, then sold it to Motorola in exchange for 500 million in investment ) - Jeff On Oct 4, 2007, at 11:04 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2.5 has great range penetration. ClearWire, as an example, had solid indoor coverage 2 miles away. I live in an apartment complex thats out of coverage area, and it still works - I'm in the bottom floor of an apartment complex, my unit has another unit behind it, a 4 acre forest conservation area, I stick it in my window, get 2/5 bars on it, and still get 1Mbps... Outdoor, could be many more miles, but the ClearWire indoor-only self-install business model seems superior to all other WISP models, unless you're selling a super-premium business service (fiber/T1 replacement). We basically sell Clearwire for all residential, and use our own wireless network for premium business customers only (149/month minimum). On Thu, 4 Oct 2007 12:56:43 -0400, John Valenti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just curious if anyone has seen a coverage map that compares WiFi and WiMax? I spent a little bit of time researching WiMax, but decided I would be unlikely to have a license and to just go with what I have that mostly works (unlicensed). But I would like to know what WiMax means in a rural, tree filled environment. As a novice WISP (about 18 months now), I can only hope for good coverage with 2.4GHz to maybe a mile. A rare house might have LOS farther than that, but generally there will be enough trees in the way by a mile to block my signal. (this is using farm grain legs/ silos for the AP, so maybe 150' max AGL) If I switch to 900MHz, maybe the distance gets out to 2.5 miles. Would a 2.5GHz Wimax AP push the signal much better thru trees? I suppose it would make a difference what was at the customer end - a laptop with a WiMax card vs a fixed, outdoor radio. And does AP height help a lot? I don't see an advantage to paying commercial tower rates to get above 200' in my situation, but maybe that changes with WiMax. -- -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http:// www.ispcon.com/register.php ** -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax?
802.16e in 5.8ghz would be absolutely the biggest waste of money ever as you wouldn't get a true mobile network but your network costs would be around, yaknow, 300k for a market of 20k people for just BASE station equipment. The way to go if you are really worried about upward compatibility ( and you own licenses or want to lease spectrum ) is to build a MOFO network using ATCA solutions, but still you are talking for just 4 sectors of Wimax with scaleablity to multiple bands and sectors, 50k per base station to start. The key is going to market with a solution that has both a SDR system but low cost initially. - jeff On Oct 4, 2007, at 8:23 PM, Senthil wrote: We did consider deploying Wi-Max 802.16e (802.16d totally out of the question) in 5.8 GHz but checking on the technical aspects of the standard Wi-Max still seems to be rather immature as most aspects are similar to 802.11a/g. Then again this applies only to the initial Wave-1 compliant Wi-Max devices but once wave-2 standardized equipment comes we should have smarter antenna systems (MIMO,beamforming) with which we will definitely get a better performance. So for the time being I think in terms of performance, pricing and technology it's better to stick to Wi-Fi! Senthil John Valenti wrote: Just curious if anyone has seen a coverage map that compares WiFi and WiMax? I spent a little bit of time researching WiMax, but decided I would be unlikely to have a license and to just go with what I have that mostly works (unlicensed). But I would like to know what WiMax means in a rural, tree filled environment. As a novice WISP (about 18 months now), I can only hope for good coverage with 2.4GHz to maybe a mile. A rare house might have LOS farther than that, but generally there will be enough trees in the way by a mile to block my signal. (this is using farm grain legs/ silos for the AP, so maybe 150' max AGL) If I switch to 900MHz, maybe the distance gets out to 2.5 miles. Would a 2.5GHz Wimax AP push the signal much better thru trees? I suppose it would make a difference what was at the customer end - a laptop with a WiMax card vs a fixed, outdoor radio. And does AP height help a lot? I don't see an advantage to paying commercial tower rates to get above 200' in my situation, but maybe that changes with WiMax. - --- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http:// www.ispcon.com/register.php ** - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http:// www.ispcon.com/register.php ** -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax?
MOFO? ATCA? SDR? On 10/6/07, Jeffrey Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 802.16e in 5.8ghz would be absolutely the biggest waste of money ever as you wouldn't get a true mobile network but your network costs would be around, yaknow, 300k for a market of 20k people for just BASE station equipment. The way to go if you are really worried about upward compatibility ( and you own licenses or want to lease spectrum ) is to build a MOFO network using ATCA solutions, but still you are talking for just 4 sectors of Wimax with scaleablity to multiple bands and sectors, 50k per base station to start. The key is going to market with a solution that has both a SDR system but low cost initially. - jeff On Oct 4, 2007, at 8:23 PM, Senthil wrote: We did consider deploying Wi-Max 802.16e (802.16d totally out of the question) in 5.8 GHz but checking on the technical aspects of the standard Wi-Max still seems to be rather immature as most aspects are similar to 802.11a/g. Then again this applies only to the initial Wave-1 compliant Wi-Max devices but once wave-2 standardized equipment comes we should have smarter antenna systems (MIMO,beamforming) with which we will definitely get a better performance. So for the time being I think in terms of performance, pricing and technology it's better to stick to Wi-Fi! Senthil John Valenti wrote: Just curious if anyone has seen a coverage map that compares WiFi and WiMax? I spent a little bit of time researching WiMax, but decided I would be unlikely to have a license and to just go with what I have that mostly works (unlicensed). But I would like to know what WiMax means in a rural, tree filled environment. As a novice WISP (about 18 months now), I can only hope for good coverage with 2.4GHz to maybe a mile. A rare house might have LOS farther than that, but generally there will be enough trees in the way by a mile to block my signal. (this is using farm grain legs/ silos for the AP, so maybe 150' max AGL) If I switch to 900MHz, maybe the distance gets out to 2.5 miles. Would a 2.5GHz Wimax AP push the signal much better thru trees? I suppose it would make a difference what was at the customer end - a laptop with a WiMax card vs a fixed, outdoor radio. And does AP height help a lot? I don't see an advantage to paying commercial tower rates to get above 200' in my situation, but maybe that changes with WiMax. - --- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http:// www.ispcon.com/register.php ** - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http:// www.ispcon.com/register.php ** -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:
RE: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax?
NextNet is 2Watts standard, 5Watts with filters. Very noisy system too. Mike Bushard, Jr Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC 320-256-WISP (9477) 320-256-9478 Fax -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Thomas Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 6:00 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax? All, Bear in mind, Clearwire uses their own base station technology, which is mostly Nextnet base stations ( now motorola ) . Nextnet's performance is not wimax, just really high power base stations and CPE. 4 QAM / 2 WATT output power / 8dbi directional antenna on the CPE and I think around 10 watts on the base in power? ( originally was nextnet, then mccaw bought them for 50 million, then sold it to Motorola in exchange for 500 million in investment ) - Jeff On Oct 4, 2007, at 11:04 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2.5 has great range penetration. ClearWire, as an example, had solid indoor coverage 2 miles away. I live in an apartment complex thats out of coverage area, and it still works - I'm in the bottom floor of an apartment complex, my unit has another unit behind it, a 4 acre forest conservation area, I stick it in my window, get 2/5 bars on it, and still get 1Mbps... Outdoor, could be many more miles, but the ClearWire indoor-only self-install business model seems superior to all other WISP models, unless you're selling a super-premium business service (fiber/T1 replacement). We basically sell Clearwire for all residential, and use our own wireless network for premium business customers only (149/month minimum). On Thu, 4 Oct 2007 12:56:43 -0400, John Valenti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just curious if anyone has seen a coverage map that compares WiFi and WiMax? I spent a little bit of time researching WiMax, but decided I would be unlikely to have a license and to just go with what I have that mostly works (unlicensed). But I would like to know what WiMax means in a rural, tree filled environment. As a novice WISP (about 18 months now), I can only hope for good coverage with 2.4GHz to maybe a mile. A rare house might have LOS farther than that, but generally there will be enough trees in the way by a mile to block my signal. (this is using farm grain legs/ silos for the AP, so maybe 150' max AGL) If I switch to 900MHz, maybe the distance gets out to 2.5 miles. Would a 2.5GHz Wimax AP push the signal much better thru trees? I suppose it would make a difference what was at the customer end - a laptop with a WiMax card vs a fixed, outdoor radio. And does AP height help a lot? I don't see an advantage to paying commercial tower rates to get above 200' in my situation, but maybe that changes with WiMax. -- -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http:// www.ispcon.com/register.php ** -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php
RE: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax?
I think it was 300Mil, not 5. Mike Bushard, Jr Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC 320-256-WISP (9477) 320-256-9478 Fax -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Thomas Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 6:00 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax? All, Bear in mind, Clearwire uses their own base station technology, which is mostly Nextnet base stations ( now motorola ) . Nextnet's performance is not wimax, just really high power base stations and CPE. 4 QAM / 2 WATT output power / 8dbi directional antenna on the CPE and I think around 10 watts on the base in power? ( originally was nextnet, then mccaw bought them for 50 million, then sold it to Motorola in exchange for 500 million in investment ) - Jeff On Oct 4, 2007, at 11:04 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2.5 has great range penetration. ClearWire, as an example, had solid indoor coverage 2 miles away. I live in an apartment complex thats out of coverage area, and it still works - I'm in the bottom floor of an apartment complex, my unit has another unit behind it, a 4 acre forest conservation area, I stick it in my window, get 2/5 bars on it, and still get 1Mbps... Outdoor, could be many more miles, but the ClearWire indoor-only self-install business model seems superior to all other WISP models, unless you're selling a super-premium business service (fiber/T1 replacement). We basically sell Clearwire for all residential, and use our own wireless network for premium business customers only (149/month minimum). On Thu, 4 Oct 2007 12:56:43 -0400, John Valenti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just curious if anyone has seen a coverage map that compares WiFi and WiMax? I spent a little bit of time researching WiMax, but decided I would be unlikely to have a license and to just go with what I have that mostly works (unlicensed). But I would like to know what WiMax means in a rural, tree filled environment. As a novice WISP (about 18 months now), I can only hope for good coverage with 2.4GHz to maybe a mile. A rare house might have LOS farther than that, but generally there will be enough trees in the way by a mile to block my signal. (this is using farm grain legs/ silos for the AP, so maybe 150' max AGL) If I switch to 900MHz, maybe the distance gets out to 2.5 miles. Would a 2.5GHz Wimax AP push the signal much better thru trees? I suppose it would make a difference what was at the customer end - a laptop with a WiMax card vs a fixed, outdoor radio. And does AP height help a lot? I don't see an advantage to paying commercial tower rates to get above 200' in my situation, but maybe that changes with WiMax. -- -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http:// www.ispcon.com/register.php ** -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You
RE: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax?
I'm not sure about MOFO but ATCA is a modular design standard (Advanced Telecommunications Computing Architecture) and SDR is Software Designed Radio. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dylan Oliver Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 10:02 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax? MOFO? ATCA? SDR? On 10/6/07, Jeffrey Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 802.16e in 5.8ghz would be absolutely the biggest waste of money ever as you wouldn't get a true mobile network but your network costs would be around, yaknow, 300k for a market of 20k people for just BASE station equipment. The way to go if you are really worried about upward compatibility ( and you own licenses or want to lease spectrum ) is to build a MOFO network using ATCA solutions, but still you are talking for just 4 sectors of Wimax with scaleablity to multiple bands and sectors, 50k per base station to start. The key is going to market with a solution that has both a SDR system but low cost initially. - jeff On Oct 4, 2007, at 8:23 PM, Senthil wrote: We did consider deploying Wi-Max 802.16e (802.16d totally out of the question) in 5.8 GHz but checking on the technical aspects of the standard Wi-Max still seems to be rather immature as most aspects are similar to 802.11a/g. Then again this applies only to the initial Wave-1 compliant Wi-Max devices but once wave-2 standardized equipment comes we should have smarter antenna systems (MIMO,beamforming) with which we will definitely get a better performance. So for the time being I think in terms of performance, pricing and technology it's better to stick to Wi-Fi! Senthil John Valenti wrote: Just curious if anyone has seen a coverage map that compares WiFi and WiMax? I spent a little bit of time researching WiMax, but decided I would be unlikely to have a license and to just go with what I have that mostly works (unlicensed). But I would like to know what WiMax means in a rural, tree filled environment. As a novice WISP (about 18 months now), I can only hope for good coverage with 2.4GHz to maybe a mile. A rare house might have LOS farther than that, but generally there will be enough trees in the way by a mile to block my signal. (this is using farm grain legs/ silos for the AP, so maybe 150' max AGL) If I switch to 900MHz, maybe the distance gets out to 2.5 miles. Would a 2.5GHz Wimax AP push the signal much better thru trees? I suppose it would make a difference what was at the customer end - a laptop with a WiMax card vs a fixed, outdoor radio. And does AP height help a lot? I don't see an advantage to paying commercial tower rates to get above 200' in my situation, but maybe that changes with WiMax. - --- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http:// www.ispcon.com/register.php ** - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http:// www.ispcon.com/register.php ** -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com
Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax?
My guess is it's MOTO a typo. try googling you should find the answer. Senthil Dylan Oliver wrote: MOFO? ATCA? SDR? ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax?
2.5 has great range penetration. ClearWire, as an example, had solid indoor coverage 2 miles away. I live in an apartment complex thats out of coverage area, and it still works - I'm in the bottom floor of an apartment complex, my unit has another unit behind it, a 4 acre forest conservation area, I stick it in my window, get 2/5 bars on it, and still get 1Mbps... Outdoor, could be many more miles, but the ClearWire indoor-only self-install business model seems superior to all other WISP models, unless you're selling a super-premium business service (fiber/T1 replacement). We basically sell Clearwire for all residential, and use our own wireless network for premium business customers only (149/month minimum). On Thu, 4 Oct 2007 12:56:43 -0400, John Valenti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just curious if anyone has seen a coverage map that compares WiFi and WiMax? I spent a little bit of time researching WiMax, but decided I would be unlikely to have a license and to just go with what I have that mostly works (unlicensed). But I would like to know what WiMax means in a rural, tree filled environment. As a novice WISP (about 18 months now), I can only hope for good coverage with 2.4GHz to maybe a mile. A rare house might have LOS farther than that, but generally there will be enough trees in the way by a mile to block my signal. (this is using farm grain legs/ silos for the AP, so maybe 150' max AGL) If I switch to 900MHz, maybe the distance gets out to 2.5 miles. Would a 2.5GHz Wimax AP push the signal much better thru trees? I suppose it would make a difference what was at the customer end - a laptop with a WiMax card vs a fixed, outdoor radio. And does AP height help a lot? I don't see an advantage to paying commercial tower rates to get above 200' in my situation, but maybe that changes with WiMax. ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax?
John, The 2.5 GHz will push better for two reasons, one the power is higher, and two, the product sophistication is much higher, with multiple diversity options to dramatically improve link budgets. Tower height is the same you'd plan for with 2.4 GHz. CPE choices will range from outdoor mounted models to self-install with integrated antennas using beam-forming and other advanced techniques. Some also offer self-install with an external connector option for a window mount antenna (at least ours does). Our outdoor uses a single antenna. Our Si uses 6 built-in antennae that implement a dynamic/real time patent-pending fast switching algorithm. 900MHz will still get you farther I would think. Patrick Leary AVP, Market Development Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Valenti Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 9:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax? Just curious if anyone has seen a coverage map that compares WiFi and WiMax? I spent a little bit of time researching WiMax, but decided I would be unlikely to have a license and to just go with what I have that mostly works (unlicensed). But I would like to know what WiMax means in a rural, tree filled environment. As a novice WISP (about 18 months now), I can only hope for good coverage with 2.4GHz to maybe a mile. A rare house might have LOS farther than that, but generally there will be enough trees in the way by a mile to block my signal. (this is using farm grain legs/ silos for the AP, so maybe 150' max AGL) If I switch to 900MHz, maybe the distance gets out to 2.5 miles. Would a 2.5GHz Wimax AP push the signal much better thru trees? I suppose it would make a difference what was at the customer end - a laptop with a WiMax card vs a fixed, outdoor radio. And does AP height help a lot? I don't see an advantage to paying commercial tower rates to get above 200' in my situation, but maybe that changes with WiMax. ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(190). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(43). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(84). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
RE: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax?
I would agree and we are seeing ranges even much better than this when 4th order diversity is implemented. Patrick Leary AVP, Market Development Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 11:05 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] RF propagation map: WiFi vs WiMax? 2.5 has great range penetration. ClearWire, as an example, had solid indoor coverage 2 miles away. I live in an apartment complex thats out of coverage area, and it still works - I'm in the bottom floor of an apartment complex, my unit has another unit behind it, a 4 acre forest conservation area, I stick it in my window, get 2/5 bars on it, and still get 1Mbps... Outdoor, could be many more miles, but the ClearWire indoor-only self-install business model seems superior to all other WISP models, unless you're selling a super-premium business service (fiber/T1 replacement). We basically sell Clearwire for all residential, and use our own wireless network for premium business customers only (149/month minimum). On Thu, 4 Oct 2007 12:56:43 -0400, John Valenti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just curious if anyone has seen a coverage map that compares WiFi and WiMax? I spent a little bit of time researching WiMax, but decided I would be unlikely to have a license and to just go with what I have that mostly works (unlicensed). But I would like to know what WiMax means in a rural, tree filled environment. As a novice WISP (about 18 months now), I can only hope for good coverage with 2.4GHz to maybe a mile. A rare house might have LOS farther than that, but generally there will be enough trees in the way by a mile to block my signal. (this is using farm grain legs/ silos for the AP, so maybe 150' max AGL) If I switch to 900MHz, maybe the distance gets out to 2.5 miles. Would a 2.5GHz Wimax AP push the signal much better thru trees? I suppose it would make a difference what was at the customer end - a laptop with a WiMax card vs a fixed, outdoor radio. And does AP height help a lot? I don't see an advantage to paying commercial tower rates to get above 200' in my situation, but maybe that changes with WiMax. ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(190). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(43). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(84
