Re: [WISPA] MIMO antenna cabling...
In MIMO, Dis-similar Cable length to the dual pol feeds CAN be a problem. Both cables should be the exact same length, or as close as you can make them. This should not be a problem for a 10ft cable. Simply crimp the indoor connector first, since ends terminated really close to each other. Have second cable follow the first cable (maybe even zip tie it to it) and then outside cut the second cable at the point where it reaches the first cable's end. It means not totally using pre-made cables, and having to crimp the outdoor connector manually. Use Ezy connectors to ease abilit to crimp cables up on a roof without the need for a soldering iron. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: MDK To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 2:16 PM Subject: [WISPA] MIMO antenna cabling... I'm in the position of wanting to test the Star-OS MIMO mode, and it occurs to me that connecting an antenna through a few feet of cable may have some pitfalls... I'm going to use dual polarity antennas, and so I'm wondering if I need to use very closely matching cable lengths for the cables that connect the radio to the wire?The board / radio are inside the building, and the antennas will be about 10 feet away, or so. Is this an issue to be concerned about? Anyone know? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MIMO antenna cabling...
Note: Interference between cards in a case can be a problem, but With MIMO self interference between polarity connectors is less of a problem than with trying to use two seperate radios not MIMO. Let me tell you why I feel this. In theory OFDM for Full modulations needs at minimum 25db isolation between ports. I've seen huge difference in performance using antennas that had 35-40 db isolation between ports compared to 25db. Because of this, when fiorst testing Ubiquiti MIMO I was very concerned about this. I was concerned that a Nano MIMO only had about 16db of isolations between antenna polarities, 19db sector only about 22db isolation, and large sector about 28db isolation between feeds. So, I'd asume the 28db antenna would way out perform the NANO, in regards to polarity isolation, considering JUST a single link. (not considering intference or isolation from other seperate radio links.Obviously the larger antenna has better front to back ratio isolation from other sectors than Nonos that have little.). Any way we recently did tests on a 8 mile Ubiquiti MIMO link, comparing results using each of the three antenna type. (rockets with ext versus Nanos). The goal was to determine whether the NANO could work adequately as a AP sector, IF there were not many APs at that site. The results were Absolutely no difference in performance, regardless of which antenna we used. (again, just talking about polarity isolation, using MIMO on one link, on a clear channel). The Ubiquiti MIMO worked at full capacity even though the isolation between polarities is not very high on a NANO. I was very surprised. I do not know how this will play out StarOS MIMO. The radio system is an ALIX mini-itx and it has 5 radios, It will be very hard to trouble shoot your MIMO link based on MIMO's merit, as with so many radios within the case, it will be really hard to isolate so many cards from each other, to know whether interference is from cards or MIMO polarities. Receiver overload can also be a factor. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 3:37 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] MIMO antenna cabling... Beware of interference problems between the cards in the board Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 4:20 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MIMO antenna cabling... I'm aware of cable loss issues, but in this case, that's just not an option. LMR-400 has low enough loss at 5 ghz that I don't see any big issue with using it, and the run really isn't all that long. The radio system is an ALIX mini-itx and it has 5 radios, plus a 2 radio ALIX board, all in one enclosure. BTW, it's a metal building, with the radios inside another heavy steel box, required to prevent nearby lightning strikes from shutting it down. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: support Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 11:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MIMO antenna cabling... 10ft in RF cable is a Bad Idea I would put you board in a weather proof box and put it next to your antennas On 1/11/2011 1:16 PM, MDK wrote: I'm in the position of wanting to test the Star-OS MIMO mode, and it occurs to me that connecting an antenna through a few feet of cable may have some pitfalls... I'm going to use dual polarity antennas, and so I'm wondering if I need to use very closely matching cable lengths for the cables that connect the radio to the wire?The board / radio are inside the building, and the antennas will be about 10 feet away, or so.Is this an issue to be concerned about?Anyone know? ++Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy541-969-8200 509-386-4589++ WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Tim Steele supp...@nitline.com NITLine Support (574) 772-7550 ext 103 www.NITLine.net -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] MIMO antenna cabling...
OK... I just visited the forums and saw StarOS has been hard at work adding N Class support. (Better late than never). I stopped paying attention after around Starv3 v1.3.23 or soThinking EOL was near. I just noticed the opposite on the forums with V3- v1.5.15, and even an ALIX specific version. It appears StarOS's implementation is still playing catch up, but exciting to see that their product is evolving. They definately have the talent on staff to evolve their product to a stable product. Wondering if they are working on adding an embedded Spectrum Scanner software for Ncards yet? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: MDK To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 2:16 PM Subject: [WISPA] MIMO antenna cabling... I'm in the position of wanting to test the Star-OS MIMO mode, and it occurs to me that connecting an antenna through a few feet of cable may have some pitfalls... I'm going to use dual polarity antennas, and so I'm wondering if I need to use very closely matching cable lengths for the cables that connect the radio to the wire?The board / radio are inside the building, and the antennas will be about 10 feet away, or so. Is this an issue to be concerned about? Anyone know? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MIMO antenna cabling...
I believe that's somewhere down the road, not too far distant. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: Tom DeReggi Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 11:22 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MIMO antenna cabling... OK... I just visited the forums and saw StarOS has been hard at work adding N Class support. (Better late than never). I stopped paying attention after around Starv3 v1.3.23 or soThinking EOL was near. I just noticed the opposite on the forums with V3- v1.5.15, and even an ALIX specific version. It appears StarOS's implementation is still playing catch up, but exciting to see that their product is evolving. They definately have the talent on staff to evolve their product to a stable product. Wondering if they are working on adding an embedded Spectrum Scanner software for Ncards yet? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: MDK To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 2:16 PM Subject: [WISPA] MIMO antenna cabling... I'm in the position of wanting to test the Star-OS MIMO mode, and it occurs to me that connecting an antenna through a few feet of cable may have some pitfalls... I'm going to use dual polarity antennas, and so I'm wondering if I need to use very closely matching cable lengths for the cables that connect the radio to the wire?The board / radio are inside the building, and the antennas will be about 10 feet away, or so. Is this an issue to be concerned about? Anyone know? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MIMO antenna cabling...
10ft in RF cable is a Bad Idea I would put you board in a weather proof box and put it next to your antennas On 1/11/2011 1:16 PM, MDK wrote: I'm in the position of wanting to test the Star-OS MIMO mode, and it occurs to me that connecting an antenna through a few feet of cable may have some pitfalls... I'm going to use dual polarity antennas, and so I'm wondering if I need to use very closely matching cable lengths for the cables that connect the radio to the wire?The board / radio are inside the building, and the antennas will be about 10 feet away, or so. Is this an issue to be concerned about? Anyone know? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Tim Steele supp...@nitline.com NITLine Support (574) 772-7550 ext 103 www.NITLine.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MIMO antenna cabling...
Why is 10' of cable a bad idea. I am not doing MIMO, but I have cables from 8 to 145' working just fine. And, the real question wasn't about using cables, but do they need to be the same length. Since MIMO is looking for the best signal and/or combining what is sees from reflections/refractions, I would not see that a difference in cable length would make much difference. On 1/11/2011 2:51 PM, support wrote: 10ft in RF cable is a Bad Idea I would put you board in a weather proof box and put it next to your antennas On 1/11/2011 1:16 PM, MDK wrote: I'm in the position of wanting to test the Star-OS MIMO mode, and it occurs to me that connecting an antenna through a few feet of cable may have some pitfalls... I'm going to use dual polarity antennas, and so I'm wondering if I need to use very closely matching cable lengths for the cables that connect the radio to the wire?The board / radio are inside the building, and the antennas will be about 10 feet away, or so. Is this an issue to be concerned about? Anyone know? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Tim Steele supp...@nitline.com NITLine Support (574) 772-7550 ext 103 www.NITLine.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Owner NewWays Networking, LLC Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration Mikrotik Advanced Certified www.nwwnet.net (765) 855-1060 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MIMO antenna cabling...
I'm aware of cable loss issues, but in this case, that's just not an option. LMR-400 has low enough loss at 5 ghz that I don't see any big issue with using it, and the run really isn't all that long. The radio system is an ALIX mini-itx and it has 5 radios, plus a 2 radio ALIX board, all in one enclosure. BTW, it's a metal building, with the radios inside another heavy steel box, required to prevent nearby lightning strikes from shutting it down. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: support Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 11:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MIMO antenna cabling... 10ft in RF cable is a Bad Idea I would put you board in a weather proof box and put it next to your antennas On 1/11/2011 1:16 PM, MDK wrote: I'm in the position of wanting to test the Star-OS MIMO mode, and it occurs to me that connecting an antenna through a few feet of cable may have some pitfalls... I'm going to use dual polarity antennas, and so I'm wondering if I need to use very closely matching cable lengths for the cables that connect the radio to the wire?The board / radio are inside the building, and the antennas will be about 10 feet away, or so. Is this an issue to be concerned about? Anyone know? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Tim Steele supp...@nitline.com NITLine Support (574) 772-7550 ext 103 www.NITLine.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MIMO antenna cabling...
Beware of interference problems between the cards in the board Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 4:20 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] MIMO antenna cabling... I'm aware of cable loss issues, but in this case, that's just not an option. LMR-400 has low enough loss at 5 ghz that I don't see any big issue with using it, and the run really isn't all that long. The radio system is an ALIX mini-itx and it has 5 radios, plus a 2 radio ALIX board, all in one enclosure. BTW, it's a metal building, with the radios inside another heavy steel box, required to prevent nearby lightning strikes from shutting it down. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ From: support mailto:supp...@nitline.com Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 11:51 AM To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] MIMO antenna cabling... 10ft in RF cable is a Bad Idea I would put you board in a weather proof box and put it next to your antennas On 1/11/2011 1:16 PM, MDK wrote: I'm in the position of wanting to test the Star-OS MIMO mode, and it occurs to me that connecting an antenna through a few feet of cable may have some pitfalls... I'm going to use dual polarity antennas, and so I'm wondering if I need to use very closely matching cable lengths for the cables that connect the radio to the wire?The board / radio are inside the building, and the antennas will be about 10 feet away, or so. Is this an issue to be concerned about? Anyone know? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Tim Steele supp...@nitline.com NITLine Support (574) 772-7550 ext 103 www.NITLine.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
