Re: [WISPA] On-line back-up
I can identify. I get people that offer their 2 cents on how where we should market - but I already have more work than I can handle. What a catch 22! -RickG On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Marlon K. Schafero...@odessaoffice.com wrote: No. We're rotten at marketing. Actually, we're just growing as fast as we can already It's on the to do list though, does that count? marlon - Original Message - From: Bob Elliott - RCS belli...@rcs.info To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 12:23 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] On-line back-up Marlon, Are you actively marketing it? We have been contemplating a backup service as well. Bob Elliott Information Systems RCS Communications 502.587.7384 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 11:20 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] On-line back-up We don't promise the integrity of the data. It's a BACKUP. Chances are slim that we AND they will loose it at the same time though. Our goal is to get a couple of servers built and put a few TB of storage in them. But so far we don't even need gigs of space... shrug marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 8:14 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] On-line back-up On that note, I do percieve you will see more ISP's start their own competitive services like online backup, etc. I wonder if the companies will ever get smart and offer to pay ISP's to install mirrored servers on their network? -RickG On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Marlon K. Schafero...@odessaoffice.com wrote: We have an online backup program. It hasn't been very popular yet. We also bill per bit. Let them do those huge backups. I make money on them too! grin If they do the backups on MY system they do NOT pay the per bit fees. marlon - Original Message - From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 3:39 AM Subject: [WISPA] On-line back-up Is anybody doing anything about the on-line back-up programs like Mosy and Carbonite? I tend to think it's a good use of technology, but some users seem to back-up their entire hard drives and use half a meg for hours and days until it's done. Is that the intent, entire drive? Or do I have a bunch of unsophisticated users? Seems wrong too that a company can make money off using MY bandwidth for hours on end with no compensation. Mike - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ DISCLAIMER: This communication is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, (i) please do not read or disclose to others, (ii) please notify the sender by reply mail, and (iii) please delete this communication from your system. Thank you for your cooperation. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] On-line back-up
Yes Marlon, that counts! We are in the exact same boat, for now. Hopefully the marketing will be put together by end of next week and we can go to market. Bob Elliott Information Systems RCS Communications 502.587.7384 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 12:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] On-line back-up I can identify. I get people that offer their 2 cents on how where we should market - but I already have more work than I can handle. What a catch 22! -RickG On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Marlon K. Schafero...@odessaoffice.com wrote: No. We're rotten at marketing. Actually, we're just growing as fast as we can already It's on the to do list though, does that count? marlon - Original Message - From: Bob Elliott - RCS belli...@rcs.info To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 12:23 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] On-line back-up Marlon, Are you actively marketing it? We have been contemplating a backup service as well. Bob Elliott Information Systems RCS Communications 502.587.7384 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 11:20 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] On-line back-up We don't promise the integrity of the data. It's a BACKUP. Chances are slim that we AND they will loose it at the same time though. Our goal is to get a couple of servers built and put a few TB of storage in them. But so far we don't even need gigs of space... shrug marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 8:14 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] On-line back-up On that note, I do percieve you will see more ISP's start their own competitive services like online backup, etc. I wonder if the companies will ever get smart and offer to pay ISP's to install mirrored servers on their network? -RickG On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Marlon K. Schafero...@odessaoffice.com wrote: We have an online backup program. It hasn't been very popular yet. We also bill per bit. Let them do those huge backups. I make money on them too! grin If they do the backups on MY system they do NOT pay the per bit fees. marlon - Original Message - From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 3:39 AM Subject: [WISPA] On-line back-up Is anybody doing anything about the on-line back-up programs like Mosy and Carbonite? I tend to think it's a good use of technology, but some users seem to back-up their entire hard drives and use half a meg for hours and days until it's done. Is that the intent, entire drive? Or do I have a bunch of unsophisticated users? Seems wrong too that a company can make money off using MY bandwidth for hours on end with no compensation. Mike - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ DISCLAIMER: This communication is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, (i) please do not read or disclose to others, (ii) please notify the sender by reply mail, and (iii) please delete this communication from your system. Thank you for your
Re: [WISPA] On-line back-up
No. We're rotten at marketing. Actually, we're just growing as fast as we can already It's on the to do list though, does that count? marlon - Original Message - From: Bob Elliott - RCS belli...@rcs.info To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 12:23 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] On-line back-up Marlon, Are you actively marketing it? We have been contemplating a backup service as well. Bob Elliott Information Systems RCS Communications 502.587.7384 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 11:20 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] On-line back-up We don't promise the integrity of the data. It's a BACKUP. Chances are slim that we AND they will loose it at the same time though. Our goal is to get a couple of servers built and put a few TB of storage in them. But so far we don't even need gigs of space... shrug marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 8:14 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] On-line back-up On that note, I do percieve you will see more ISP's start their own competitive services like online backup, etc. I wonder if the companies will ever get smart and offer to pay ISP's to install mirrored servers on their network? -RickG On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Marlon K. Schafero...@odessaoffice.com wrote: We have an online backup program. It hasn't been very popular yet. We also bill per bit. Let them do those huge backups. I make money on them too! grin If they do the backups on MY system they do NOT pay the per bit fees. marlon - Original Message - From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 3:39 AM Subject: [WISPA] On-line back-up Is anybody doing anything about the on-line back-up programs like Mosy and Carbonite? I tend to think it's a good use of technology, but some users seem to back-up their entire hard drives and use half a meg for hours and days until it's done. Is that the intent, entire drive? Or do I have a bunch of unsophisticated users? Seems wrong too that a company can make money off using MY bandwidth for hours on end with no compensation. Mike - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ DISCLAIMER: This communication is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, (i) please do not read or disclose to others, (ii) please notify the sender by reply mail, and (iii) please delete this communication from your system. Thank you for your cooperation. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe
Re: [WISPA] On-line back-up
Back in the day, we used to pay $1-12000 for VCR sized rackmount boxes to handle dialup users at $20/month. At $5/month, the economics are great for backup infrastructure, assuming a $1000 box of computer parts and hard drives can handle the same quantity of customers. It's the tech support that is tough. I can't see how to make money providing customer support from helpful and smart humans for $5/month, and backup is easily as confusing as dialup if not more so. The customer must understand concepts instead of memorizing the steps needed to get connected. We offer backup, but not that cheap. Most of our business comes from a computer shop we work with who chooses online backup for customers when appropriate. If you have a computer shop along with your WISP, you could probably do well with it. Otherwise, it's a hard sell to make people worry about their data until they lose it, especially for residential use. On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 09:22:24PM -0700, John Thomas wrote: Are you willing to setup a server for their backups? For home users, Mozy charges $4.95 per month. If you setup your own backup server, you would have the initial expense of a server with big drive space, but you could charge $4.95 and at least save money on your upstream bandwidth. John Mike wrote: In my heart, I know you are right. The nature of our business is we buy bandwidth wholesale, and then resell it to others who can't afford to buy dedicated bandwidth. We factor an oversubscription rate, and count on bursty, short lived traffic from users that share the bandwidth. If I could afford to add bandwidth so everybody could maintain a 500 kbps connection for days on end, then I would. But the economics are I pay $350.00 for my first MB and $250.00 for each additional. So a person using the system for backup is utilizing a $175.00 resource for $42.40 a month; IF the back-up software only uses 500 kbps, and I've seen them surge way over that. So, two people running Mosy hog a Meg or more of a precious resource. Four of them, and they've used a couple MB or more. I'm sure you get the point. I do have a Netequalizer in place with fairness rules that will penalize those packets, because they are long duration IF and when the network gets near capacity. So, they get penalized, and grandma downloading pictures from her grand kids also gets penalized, even though her use is bursty and infrequent, just because there is not enough overhead on the pipe BECAUSE of the long duration back-up users. Without the Netequalizer, just a few of these users would bring my network to its knees. I am beginning to think Mosy and their ilk belong in the same camp as Netflix and the P2Pers. Mike At 05:51 AM 8/13/2009, you wrote: Mike wrote: Seems wrong too that a company can make money off using MY bandwidth for hours on end with no compensation. You are getting compensated, by your customer, so now it isn't really your bandwidth, but theirs. The customer is paying you to transport data, be it pictures of kittens, a HDD backup, or something else. If the terms of your contract are such that you can't support this usage, then you should probably look at changing the terms of the contract. However, I would think that it would be pretty easy to look at the flows and put throttling rules in place that limit Carbonite/Mozy/xyz traffic when there is congestion. Josh -- Josh Cheney josh.che...@gmail.com http://www.joshcheney.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and
Re: [WISPA] On-line back-up
Yes, those Livingston Portmasters? Expensive, but great boxes. -RickG On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 10:16 AM, jpj...@saucer.midcoast.com wrote: Back in the day, we used to pay $1-12000 for VCR sized rackmount boxes to handle dialup users at $20/month. At $5/month, the economics are great for backup infrastructure, assuming a $1000 box of computer parts and hard drives can handle the same quantity of customers. It's the tech support that is tough. I can't see how to make money providing customer support from helpful and smart humans for $5/month, and backup is easily as confusing as dialup if not more so. The customer must understand concepts instead of memorizing the steps needed to get connected. We offer backup, but not that cheap. Most of our business comes from a computer shop we work with who chooses online backup for customers when appropriate. If you have a computer shop along with your WISP, you could probably do well with it. Otherwise, it's a hard sell to make people worry about their data until they lose it, especially for residential use. On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 09:22:24PM -0700, John Thomas wrote: Are you willing to setup a server for their backups? For home users, Mozy charges $4.95 per month. If you setup your own backup server, you would have the initial expense of a server with big drive space, but you could charge $4.95 and at least save money on your upstream bandwidth. John Mike wrote: In my heart, I know you are right. The nature of our business is we buy bandwidth wholesale, and then resell it to others who can't afford to buy dedicated bandwidth. We factor an oversubscription rate, and count on bursty, short lived traffic from users that share the bandwidth. If I could afford to add bandwidth so everybody could maintain a 500 kbps connection for days on end, then I would. But the economics are I pay $350.00 for my first MB and $250.00 for each additional. So a person using the system for backup is utilizing a $175.00 resource for $42.40 a month; IF the back-up software only uses 500 kbps, and I've seen them surge way over that. So, two people running Mosy hog a Meg or more of a precious resource. Four of them, and they've used a couple MB or more. I'm sure you get the point. I do have a Netequalizer in place with fairness rules that will penalize those packets, because they are long duration IF and when the network gets near capacity. So, they get penalized, and grandma downloading pictures from her grand kids also gets penalized, even though her use is bursty and infrequent, just because there is not enough overhead on the pipe BECAUSE of the long duration back-up users. Without the Netequalizer, just a few of these users would bring my network to its knees. I am beginning to think Mosy and their ilk belong in the same camp as Netflix and the P2Pers. Mike At 05:51 AM 8/13/2009, you wrote: Mike wrote: Seems wrong too that a company can make money off using MY bandwidth for hours on end with no compensation. You are getting compensated, by your customer, so now it isn't really your bandwidth, but theirs. The customer is paying you to transport data, be it pictures of kittens, a HDD backup, or something else. If the terms of your contract are such that you can't support this usage, then you should probably look at changing the terms of the contract. However, I would think that it would be pretty easy to look at the flows and put throttling rules in place that limit Carbonite/Mozy/xyz traffic when there is congestion. Josh -- Josh Cheney josh.che...@gmail.com http://www.joshcheney.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast
Re: [WISPA] On-line back-up
Marlon, Are you actively marketing it? We have been contemplating a backup service as well. Bob Elliott Information Systems RCS Communications 502.587.7384 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 11:20 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] On-line back-up We don't promise the integrity of the data. It's a BACKUP. Chances are slim that we AND they will loose it at the same time though. Our goal is to get a couple of servers built and put a few TB of storage in them. But so far we don't even need gigs of space... shrug marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 8:14 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] On-line back-up On that note, I do percieve you will see more ISP's start their own competitive services like online backup, etc. I wonder if the companies will ever get smart and offer to pay ISP's to install mirrored servers on their network? -RickG On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Marlon K. Schafero...@odessaoffice.com wrote: We have an online backup program. It hasn't been very popular yet. We also bill per bit. Let them do those huge backups. I make money on them too! grin If they do the backups on MY system they do NOT pay the per bit fees. marlon - Original Message - From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 3:39 AM Subject: [WISPA] On-line back-up Is anybody doing anything about the on-line back-up programs like Mosy and Carbonite? I tend to think it's a good use of technology, but some users seem to back-up their entire hard drives and use half a meg for hours and days until it's done. Is that the intent, entire drive? Or do I have a bunch of unsophisticated users? Seems wrong too that a company can make money off using MY bandwidth for hours on end with no compensation. Mike - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ DISCLAIMER: This communication is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, (i) please do not read or disclose to others, (ii) please notify the sender by reply mail, and (iii) please delete this communication from your system. Thank you for your cooperation. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] On-line back-up
We have an online backup program. It hasn't been very popular yet. We also bill per bit. Let them do those huge backups. I make money on them too! grin If they do the backups on MY system they do NOT pay the per bit fees. marlon - Original Message - From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 3:39 AM Subject: [WISPA] On-line back-up Is anybody doing anything about the on-line back-up programs like Mosy and Carbonite? I tend to think it's a good use of technology, but some users seem to back-up their entire hard drives and use half a meg for hours and days until it's done. Is that the intent, entire drive? Or do I have a bunch of unsophisticated users? Seems wrong too that a company can make money off using MY bandwidth for hours on end with no compensation. Mike WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] On-line back-up
Yes, I've been saying bandwidth based pricing is the ultimate way to go since 1997. The question is: what is the best easiest way to do it? -RickG On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Marlon K. Schafero...@odessaoffice.com wrote: We have an online backup program. It hasn't been very popular yet. We also bill per bit. Let them do those huge backups. I make money on them too! grin If they do the backups on MY system they do NOT pay the per bit fees. marlon - Original Message - From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 3:39 AM Subject: [WISPA] On-line back-up Is anybody doing anything about the on-line back-up programs like Mosy and Carbonite? I tend to think it's a good use of technology, but some users seem to back-up their entire hard drives and use half a meg for hours and days until it's done. Is that the intent, entire drive? Or do I have a bunch of unsophisticated users? Seems wrong too that a company can make money off using MY bandwidth for hours on end with no compensation. Mike WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] On-line back-up
On that note, I do percieve you will see more ISP's start their own competitive services like online backup, etc. I wonder if the companies will ever get smart and offer to pay ISP's to install mirrored servers on their network? -RickG On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Marlon K. Schafero...@odessaoffice.com wrote: We have an online backup program. It hasn't been very popular yet. We also bill per bit. Let them do those huge backups. I make money on them too! grin If they do the backups on MY system they do NOT pay the per bit fees. marlon - Original Message - From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 3:39 AM Subject: [WISPA] On-line back-up Is anybody doing anything about the on-line back-up programs like Mosy and Carbonite? I tend to think it's a good use of technology, but some users seem to back-up their entire hard drives and use half a meg for hours and days until it's done. Is that the intent, entire drive? Or do I have a bunch of unsophisticated users? Seems wrong too that a company can make money off using MY bandwidth for hours on end with no compensation. Mike WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] On-line back-up
We don't promise the integrity of the data. It's a BACKUP. Chances are slim that we AND they will loose it at the same time though. Our goal is to get a couple of servers built and put a few TB of storage in them. But so far we don't even need gigs of space... shrug marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 8:14 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] On-line back-up On that note, I do percieve you will see more ISP's start their own competitive services like online backup, etc. I wonder if the companies will ever get smart and offer to pay ISP's to install mirrored servers on their network? -RickG On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Marlon K. Schafero...@odessaoffice.com wrote: We have an online backup program. It hasn't been very popular yet. We also bill per bit. Let them do those huge backups. I make money on them too! grin If they do the backups on MY system they do NOT pay the per bit fees. marlon - Original Message - From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 3:39 AM Subject: [WISPA] On-line back-up Is anybody doing anything about the on-line back-up programs like Mosy and Carbonite? I tend to think it's a good use of technology, but some users seem to back-up their entire hard drives and use half a meg for hours and days until it's done. Is that the intent, entire drive? Or do I have a bunch of unsophisticated users? Seems wrong too that a company can make money off using MY bandwidth for hours on end with no compensation. Mike WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] On-line back-up
I've ccd Brandon for you. He set up a system for us. Cost was less than $500 including some customization. It uses netflow data from our routers. This system has been GREAT. marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 8:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] On-line back-up Yes, I've been saying bandwidth based pricing is the ultimate way to go since 1997. The question is: what is the best easiest way to do it? -RickG On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Marlon K. Schafero...@odessaoffice.com wrote: We have an online backup program. It hasn't been very popular yet. We also bill per bit. Let them do those huge backups. I make money on them too! grin If they do the backups on MY system they do NOT pay the per bit fees. marlon - Original Message - From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 3:39 AM Subject: [WISPA] On-line back-up Is anybody doing anything about the on-line back-up programs like Mosy and Carbonite? I tend to think it's a good use of technology, but some users seem to back-up their entire hard drives and use half a meg for hours and days until it's done. Is that the intent, entire drive? Or do I have a bunch of unsophisticated users? Seems wrong too that a company can make money off using MY bandwidth for hours on end with no compensation. Mike WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] On-line back-up
This is the new Internet 2 model. Using Distributed computing (peer to peer) to cut your bandwidth costs and spread them across the network providers. Now you can distribute electronic files such as movies with no storage or bandwidth or backup costs. When the Product is spread over thousands of home computers it is also hard to cut off the source. Those that can pay and have excess capacity subsidize those with less. Mike wrote: Is anybody doing anything about the on-line back-up programs like Mosy and Carbonite? I tend to think it's a good use of technology, but some users seem to back-up their entire hard drives and use half a meg for hours and days until it's done. Is that the intent, entire drive? Or do I have a bunch of unsophisticated users? Seems wrong too that a company can make money off using MY bandwidth for hours on end with no compensation. Mike WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] On-line back-up
In my heart, I know you are right. The nature of our business is we buy bandwidth wholesale, and then resell it to others who can't afford to buy dedicated bandwidth. We factor an oversubscription rate, and count on bursty, short lived traffic from users that share the bandwidth. If I could afford to add bandwidth so everybody could maintain a 500 kbps connection for days on end, then I would. But the economics are I pay $350.00 for my first MB and $250.00 for each additional. So a person using the system for backup is utilizing a $175.00 resource for $42.40 a month; IF the back-up software only uses 500 kbps, and I've seen them surge way over that. So, two people running Mosy hog a Meg or more of a precious resource. Four of them, and they've used a couple MB or more. I'm sure you get the point. I do have a Netequalizer in place with fairness rules that will penalize those packets, because they are long duration IF and when the network gets near capacity. So, they get penalized, and grandma downloading pictures from her grand kids also gets penalized, even though her use is bursty and infrequent, just because there is not enough overhead on the pipe BECAUSE of the long duration back-up users. Without the Netequalizer, just a few of these users would bring my network to its knees. I am beginning to think Mosy and their ilk belong in the same camp as Netflix and the P2Pers. Mike At 05:51 AM 8/13/2009, you wrote: Mike wrote: Seems wrong too that a company can make money off using MY bandwidth for hours on end with no compensation. You are getting compensated, by your customer, so now it isn't really your bandwidth, but theirs. The customer is paying you to transport data, be it pictures of kittens, a HDD backup, or something else. If the terms of your contract are such that you can't support this usage, then you should probably look at changing the terms of the contract. However, I would think that it would be pretty easy to look at the flows and put throttling rules in place that limit Carbonite/Mozy/xyz traffic when there is congestion. Josh -- Josh Cheney josh.che...@gmail.com http://www.joshcheney.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] On-line back-up
I have been saying bandwidth pricing is the way to go since I first read Marlon's articles on wireless access way before 1997, probably around 2001 when I was still only providing Dial-Up and dreaming about wireless. I mean bandwidth pricing on everything, transfer would pretty much sum it all up, or for the intellectually inclined, any data that moves across your network. My feelings are that the all you can eat buffet that AOL and a few others put out there ruined it for any BBS, network provider, or any Internet Service Provider. Then the US gov't came in behind and made it worse with the Tauzin-Dingell Act that pretty much got rid of line sharing and left everyone out in the cold at-that-time but Ilec's and Clec's. It stuck in the consumers mind and that it is still what they want today. The only problem is that the BIG PROVIDERS are still feeding off it. How can we reasonably compete when they are still fueling the fire? I guess it maters where your competition is(if you have any) and how they sit on the subject. To make matters worse, the gov't wants their hands in it with net neutrality and they did not do crap to build out the networks we have had for years! Finally, Comcast, Frontier, and Time Warner announced something to combat the buffet, and the gov't had to stick their noses where they did not belong! I have heard different things that the cable and telco's are supported somewhat by gov't subsides but they should leave their nose out of our private networks. If the gov't helped build it, in my opinion they are more than welcome to stick their nose inalthough it may hurt all independent service providers. just spewing, Scottie -- Original Message -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:10:31 -0400 Yes, I've been saying bandwidth based pricing is the ultimate way to go since 1997. The question is: what is the best easiest way to do it? -RickG On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Marlon K. Schafero...@odessaoffice.com wrote: We have an online backup program. It hasn't been very popular yet. We also bill per bit. Let them do those huge backups. I make money on them too! grin If they do the backups on MY system they do NOT pay the per bit fees. marlon - Original Message - From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 3:39 AM Subject: [WISPA] On-line back-up Is anybody doing anything about the on-line back-up programs like Mosy and Carbonite? I tend to think it's a good use of technology, but some users seem to back-up their entire hard drives and use half a meg for hours and days until it's done. Is that the intent, entire drive? Or do I have a bunch of unsophisticated users? Seems wrong too that a company can make money off using MY bandwidth for hours on end with no compensation. Mike WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] On-line back-up
Scottie, I obviously agree with you. Curious though - why would you say there was a need for bandwidth based pricing before 1997? The was very little broadband then and bandwidth was not an issue. Busy signals on modem pools were. On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 11:12 PM, Scottie Arnettsarn...@info-ed.com wrote: I have been saying bandwidth pricing is the way to go since I first read Marlon's articles on wireless access way before 1997, probably around 2001 when I was still only providing Dial-Up and dreaming about wireless. I mean bandwidth pricing on everything, transfer would pretty much sum it all up, or for the intellectually inclined, any data that moves across your network. My feelings are that the all you can eat buffet that AOL and a few others put out there ruined it for any BBS, network provider, or any Internet Service Provider. Then the US gov't came in behind and made it worse with the Tauzin-Dingell Act that pretty much got rid of line sharing and left everyone out in the cold at-that-time but Ilec's and Clec's. It stuck in the consumers mind and that it is still what they want today. The only problem is that the BIG PROVIDERS are still feeding off it. How can we reasonably compete when they are still fueling the fire? I guess it maters where your competition is(if you have any) and how they sit on the subject. To make matters worse, the gov't wants their hands in it with net neutrality and they did not do crap to build out the networks we have had for years! Finally, Comcast, Frontier, and Time Warner announced something to combat the buffet, and the gov't had to stick their noses where they did not belong! I have heard different things that the cable and telco's are supported somewhat by gov't subsides but they should leave their nose out of our private networks. If the gov't helped build it, in my opinion they are more than welcome to stick their nose inalthough it may hurt all independent service providers. just spewing, Scottie -- Original Message -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:10:31 -0400 Yes, I've been saying bandwidth based pricing is the ultimate way to go since 1997. The question is: what is the best easiest way to do it? -RickG On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Marlon K. Schafero...@odessaoffice.com wrote: We have an online backup program. It hasn't been very popular yet. We also bill per bit. Let them do those huge backups. I make money on them too! grin If they do the backups on MY system they do NOT pay the per bit fees. marlon - Original Message - From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 3:39 AM Subject: [WISPA] On-line back-up Is anybody doing anything about the on-line back-up programs like Mosy and Carbonite? I tend to think it's a good use of technology, but some users seem to back-up their entire hard drives and use half a meg for hours and days until it's done. Is that the intent, entire drive? Or do I have a bunch of unsophisticated users? Seems wrong too that a company can make money off using MY bandwidth for hours on end with no compensation. Mike WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] On-line back-up
Are you willing to setup a server for their backups? For home users, Mozy charges $4.95 per month. If you setup your own backup server, you would have the initial expense of a server with big drive space, but you could charge $4.95 and at least save money on your upstream bandwidth. John Mike wrote: In my heart, I know you are right. The nature of our business is we buy bandwidth wholesale, and then resell it to others who can't afford to buy dedicated bandwidth. We factor an oversubscription rate, and count on bursty, short lived traffic from users that share the bandwidth. If I could afford to add bandwidth so everybody could maintain a 500 kbps connection for days on end, then I would. But the economics are I pay $350.00 for my first MB and $250.00 for each additional. So a person using the system for backup is utilizing a $175.00 resource for $42.40 a month; IF the back-up software only uses 500 kbps, and I've seen them surge way over that. So, two people running Mosy hog a Meg or more of a precious resource. Four of them, and they've used a couple MB or more. I'm sure you get the point. I do have a Netequalizer in place with fairness rules that will penalize those packets, because they are long duration IF and when the network gets near capacity. So, they get penalized, and grandma downloading pictures from her grand kids also gets penalized, even though her use is bursty and infrequent, just because there is not enough overhead on the pipe BECAUSE of the long duration back-up users. Without the Netequalizer, just a few of these users would bring my network to its knees. I am beginning to think Mosy and their ilk belong in the same camp as Netflix and the P2Pers. Mike At 05:51 AM 8/13/2009, you wrote: Mike wrote: Seems wrong too that a company can make money off using MY bandwidth for hours on end with no compensation. You are getting compensated, by your customer, so now it isn't really your bandwidth, but theirs. The customer is paying you to transport data, be it pictures of kittens, a HDD backup, or something else. If the terms of your contract are such that you can't support this usage, then you should probably look at changing the terms of the contract. However, I would think that it would be pretty easy to look at the flows and put throttling rules in place that limit Carbonite/Mozy/xyz traffic when there is congestion. Josh -- Josh Cheney josh.che...@gmail.com http://www.joshcheney.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
