Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
Loved the comment on ATK, IPX, Neteui. Like Yogi Berra said this is like deja vu all over again! At 08:54 AM 2/22/2012, you wrote: Agreed. We are blocking bonjour between buildings, but not within. I wanted to block within, but there are apps out there that the faculty want to use that require it. That was the compromise I settled on... looking forward to 802.11ac now. I thought my days of dealing with AppleTalk, IPX and Netbeui were done. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 5:21 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Had an Apple rep in recently and he stated Apple (Bonjour) has come a long way since Appletalk on their network protocols. I wanted to believe him and then I tried to use it on our campus. LAN only protocol that relies on mDNS registration to bridge networks assuming all your end devices support it of course. Reminds me of LAN/SOHO only protocols I worked with a decade ago. Why not allow the device being mirrored to specify the device you want to mirror to by IP address or FQDN. I don't think I'm asking for too much from the man but, alas, perhaps I am. Disappointed yet again by Apple network protocols, Brian ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
We are faced with the same issues here at BC... We are starting to block it for all students but have not for the Faculty. Could you give more details on what apps the faculty needed bonjour for? -Brian Brian J David Network Systems Engineer Boston College -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian Helman Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 9:54 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Agreed. We are blocking bonjour between buildings, but not within. I wanted to block within, but there are apps out there that the faculty want to use that require it. That was the compromise I settled on... looking forward to 802.11ac now. I thought my days of dealing with AppleTalk, IPX and Netbeui were done. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 5:21 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Had an Apple rep in recently and he stated Apple (Bonjour) has come a long way since Appletalk on their network protocols. I wanted to believe him and then I tried to use it on our campus. LAN only protocol that relies on mDNS registration to bridge networks assuming all your end devices support it of course. Reminds me of LAN/SOHO only protocols I worked with a decade ago. Why not allow the device being mirrored to specify the device you want to mirror to by IP address or FQDN. I don't think I'm asking for too much from the man but, alas, perhaps I am. Disappointed yet again by Apple network protocols, Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 4:57 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Would be interesting to contemplate a petition or similar from the Educause members to Apple requesting that they catch up to the fact that their toys are invading the enterprise, that the enterprise doesn't run on AirPorts, and therefor they might develop towards the enterprise WLAN, Then again, I doubt they'd give a rip. It's a shame that the sexiest devices on the planet have such shallow network development behind them. -Lee From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Cappalli, Tim G @ LSC-ITS [tim.cappa...@lsc.vsc.edu] Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 4:36 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. It's time for Apple step up. How many hundreds of hours are we going to spend on this? For the first time in a long time, we are saying no for the time being. Tim Cappalli, CCNA ACMA | IT Services | (802) 626-6456 tim.cappa...@lyndonstate.edu | it.lyndonstate.edu PRIVACY CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, confidential, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of an email received in error is prohibited. Sent from my BlackBerry(r) PlayBook(tm) -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Peter P Morrissey Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 4:14 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Isn't it amazing that they actually mention classrooms and conference rooms here, yet the geniuses at Apple probably have no clue about what is really involved? Pete M. -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Julian Y Koh Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 4:00 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri Dec 16 2011 11:16:43 Central Time, Johnson, Neil M wrote: We have a request to support Airplay/Apple TV's on our enterprise network so that instructors can mirror presentations from their iPad's to classroom and meeting room projectors. This is only going to get more prevalent now that Mountain Lion will support Airplay mirroring from OS X machines.
RE: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
We will need Bonjour in order to allow faculty members to mirror their iPads/WhateverAppleProductElse to an AppleTV in a classroom for presentations wirelessly. Presently we block all mcast and bcast on our WLAN due to the channel use overhead this incurs (anywhere from 10% to 20%). We'll be moving to Aruba this summer where enabling bcast and mcast is not an all or nothing endeavor I believe. I think Aruba is integrating some stuff into their controller code to help with this problem or already has it. Someone who knows more about Aruba can correct me if I'm wrong. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian David Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:11 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. We are faced with the same issues here at BC... We are starting to block it for all students but have not for the Faculty. Could you give more details on what apps the faculty needed bonjour for? -Brian Brian J David Network Systems Engineer Boston College -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian Helman Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 9:54 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Agreed. We are blocking bonjour between buildings, but not within. I wanted to block within, but there are apps out there that the faculty want to use that require it. That was the compromise I settled on... looking forward to 802.11ac now. I thought my days of dealing with AppleTalk, IPX and Netbeui were done. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 5:21 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Had an Apple rep in recently and he stated Apple (Bonjour) has come a long way since Appletalk on their network protocols. I wanted to believe him and then I tried to use it on our campus. LAN only protocol that relies on mDNS registration to bridge networks assuming all your end devices support it of course. Reminds me of LAN/SOHO only protocols I worked with a decade ago. Why not allow the device being mirrored to specify the device you want to mirror to by IP address or FQDN. I don't think I'm asking for too much from the man but, alas, perhaps I am. Disappointed yet again by Apple network protocols, Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 4:57 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Would be interesting to contemplate a petition or similar from the Educause members to Apple requesting that they catch up to the fact that their toys are invading the enterprise, that the enterprise doesn't run on AirPorts, and therefor they might develop towards the enterprise WLAN, Then again, I doubt they'd give a rip. It's a shame that the sexiest devices on the planet have such shallow network development behind them. -Lee From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Cappalli, Tim G @ LSC-ITS [tim.cappa...@lsc.vsc.edu] Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 4:36 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. It's time for Apple step up. How many hundreds of hours are we going to spend on this? For the first time in a long time, we are saying no for the time being. Tim Cappalli, CCNA ACMA | IT Services | (802) 626-6456 tim.cappa...@lyndonstate.edu | it.lyndonstate.edu PRIVACY CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, confidential, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of an email received in error is prohibited. Sent from my BlackBerry(r) PlayBook(tm) -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Peter P Morrissey Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 4:14 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Isn't it amazing that they actually mention classrooms and
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
On 2/22/2012 10:07 AM, Fred Mowchan wrote: Loved the comment on ATK, IPX, Neteui. Like Yogi Berra said this is like deja vu all over again! Yes, routing breaks traditional AT, IPX, NetBEUI, etc. So what clown woke up and said Hey! Let's just multicast it, that's routable... Jeff ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
Has anyone actually tracked how much bandwidth/usage Bonjour coughs up across their wlan infrastructure? I haven't analyzed it, and while it could be bandwidth hungry, it appears to me that will be more with device to device. I'm playing devils advocate here, but is a 6 meg stream on an N access point both ways really going to be crunching anyone? I'd be worried about G yes, but N with a gig uplink? I do find it unnerving that all the bonjour devices are able to find each other and potentially create a lot of traffic, but 99.9% of the time I don't see anyone working any access point very hard. Mike Goebel Network Programmer Office of Information Technology Western Michigan University Phone: 269-387-0453 Email: michael.goe...@wmich.edu On 2/22/2012 10:18 AM, Kellogg, Brian D. wrote: We will need Bonjour in order to allow faculty members to mirror their iPads/WhateverAppleProductElse to an AppleTV in a classroom for presentations wirelessly. Presently we block all mcast and bcast on our WLAN due to the channel use overhead this incurs (anywhere from 10% to 20%). We'll be moving to Aruba this summer where enabling bcast and mcast is not an all or nothing endeavor I believe. I think Aruba is integrating some stuff into their controller code to help with this problem or already has it. Someone who knows more about Aruba can correct me if I'm wrong. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian David Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:11 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. We are faced with the same issues here at BC... We are starting to block it for all students but have not for the Faculty. Could you give more details on what apps the faculty needed bonjour for? -Brian Brian J David Network Systems Engineer Boston College -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian Helman Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 9:54 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Agreed. We are blocking bonjour between buildings, but not within. I wanted to block within, but there are apps out there that the faculty want to use that require it. That was the compromise I settled on... looking forward to 802.11ac now. I thought my days of dealing with AppleTalk, IPX and Netbeui were done. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 5:21 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Had an Apple rep in recently and he stated Apple (Bonjour) has come a long way since Appletalk on their network protocols. I wanted to believe him and then I tried to use it on our campus. LAN only protocol that relies on mDNS registration to bridge networks assuming all your end devices support it of course. Reminds me of LAN/SOHO only protocols I worked with a decade ago. Why not allow the device being mirrored to specify the device you want to mirror to by IP address or FQDN. I don't think I'm asking for too much from the man but, alas, perhaps I am. Disappointed yet again by Apple network protocols, Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 4:57 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Would be interesting to contemplate a petition or similar from the Educause members to Apple requesting that they catch up to the fact that their toys are invading the enterprise, that the enterprise doesn't run on AirPorts, and therefor they might develop towards the enterprise WLAN, Then again, I doubt they'd give a rip. It's a shame that the sexiest devices on the planet have such shallow network development behind them. -Lee From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Cappalli, Tim G @ LSC-ITS [tim.cappa...@lsc.vsc.edu] Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 4:36 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. It's time for Apple step up. How many hundreds of hours are we going to spend on this? For the first time in a long time, we are saying no for the time being. Tim Cappalli, CCNA ACMA | IT Services | (802) 626-6456
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
To me, it's less about bandwidth than it is expectations that you'll change the network design to accommodate these things because some of the require all devices to be on the same class C subnet, don't do 1x for security, etc. -Lee -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike Goebel Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 11:09 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Has anyone actually tracked how much bandwidth/usage Bonjour coughs up across their wlan infrastructure? I haven't analyzed it, and while it could be bandwidth hungry, it appears to me that will be more with device to device. I'm playing devils advocate here, but is a 6 meg stream on an N access point both ways really going to be crunching anyone? I'd be worried about G yes, but N with a gig uplink? I do find it unnerving that all the bonjour devices are able to find each other and potentially create a lot of traffic, but 99.9% of the time I don't see anyone working any access point very hard. Mike Goebel Network Programmer Office of Information Technology Western Michigan University Phone: 269-387-0453 Email: michael.goe...@wmich.edu On 2/22/2012 10:18 AM, Kellogg, Brian D. wrote: We will need Bonjour in order to allow faculty members to mirror their iPads/WhateverAppleProductElse to an AppleTV in a classroom for presentations wirelessly. Presently we block all mcast and bcast on our WLAN due to the channel use overhead this incurs (anywhere from 10% to 20%). We'll be moving to Aruba this summer where enabling bcast and mcast is not an all or nothing endeavor I believe. I think Aruba is integrating some stuff into their controller code to help with this problem or already has it. Someone who knows more about Aruba can correct me if I'm wrong. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian David Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:11 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. We are faced with the same issues here at BC... We are starting to block it for all students but have not for the Faculty. Could you give more details on what apps the faculty needed bonjour for? -Brian Brian J David Network Systems Engineer Boston College -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian Helman Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 9:54 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Agreed. We are blocking bonjour between buildings, but not within. I wanted to block within, but there are apps out there that the faculty want to use that require it. That was the compromise I settled on... looking forward to 802.11ac now. I thought my days of dealing with AppleTalk, IPX and Netbeui were done. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 5:21 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Had an Apple rep in recently and he stated Apple (Bonjour) has come a long way since Appletalk on their network protocols. I wanted to believe him and then I tried to use it on our campus. LAN only protocol that relies on mDNS registration to bridge networks assuming all your end devices support it of course. Reminds me of LAN/SOHO only protocols I worked with a decade ago. Why not allow the device being mirrored to specify the device you want to mirror to by IP address or FQDN. I don't think I'm asking for too much from the man but, alas, perhaps I am. Disappointed yet again by Apple network protocols, Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 4:57 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Would be interesting to contemplate a petition or similar from the Educause members to Apple requesting that they catch up to the fact that their toys are invading the enterprise, that the enterprise doesn't run on AirPorts, and therefor they might develop towards the enterprise WLAN, Then again, I doubt they'd give a rip. It's a shame that the sexiest devices on the planet have such shallow
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
I assumed with mDNS it didn't just hit it's local subnet. I've been on the nightmare side of getting Audio/Video stuff to talk over IP with hundreds of classrooms and that isn't a whole lot of fun either. Mike Goebel Network Programmer Office of Information Technology Western Michigan University Phone: 269-387-0453 Email: michael.goe...@wmich.edu On 2/22/2012 11:42 AM, Lee H Badman wrote: To me, it's less about bandwidth than it is expectations that you'll change the network design to accommodate these things because some of the require all devices to be on the same class C subnet, don't do 1x for security, etc. -Lee -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike Goebel Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 11:09 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Has anyone actually tracked how much bandwidth/usage Bonjour coughs up across their wlan infrastructure? I haven't analyzed it, and while it could be bandwidth hungry, it appears to me that will be more with device to device. I'm playing devils advocate here, but is a 6 meg stream on an N access point both ways really going to be crunching anyone? I'd be worried about G yes, but N with a gig uplink? I do find it unnerving that all the bonjour devices are able to find each other and potentially create a lot of traffic, but 99.9% of the time I don't see anyone working any access point very hard. Mike Goebel Network Programmer Office of Information Technology Western Michigan University Phone: 269-387-0453 Email: michael.goe...@wmich.edu On 2/22/2012 10:18 AM, Kellogg, Brian D. wrote: We will need Bonjour in order to allow faculty members to mirror their iPads/WhateverAppleProductElse to an AppleTV in a classroom for presentations wirelessly. Presently we block all mcast and bcast on our WLAN due to the channel use overhead this incurs (anywhere from 10% to 20%). We'll be moving to Aruba this summer where enabling bcast and mcast is not an all or nothing endeavor I believe. I think Aruba is integrating some stuff into their controller code to help with this problem or already has it. Someone who knows more about Aruba can correct me if I'm wrong. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian David Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:11 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. We are faced with the same issues here at BC... We are starting to block it for all students but have not for the Faculty. Could you give more details on what apps the faculty needed bonjour for? -Brian Brian J David Network Systems Engineer Boston College -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian Helman Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 9:54 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Agreed. We are blocking bonjour between buildings, but not within. I wanted to block within, but there are apps out there that the faculty want to use that require it. That was the compromise I settled on... looking forward to 802.11ac now. I thought my days of dealing with AppleTalk, IPX and Netbeui were done. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 5:21 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Had an Apple rep in recently and he stated Apple (Bonjour) has come a long way since Appletalk on their network protocols. I wanted to believe him and then I tried to use it on our campus. LAN only protocol that relies on mDNS registration to bridge networks assuming all your end devices support it of course. Reminds me of LAN/SOHO only protocols I worked with a decade ago. Why not allow the device being mirrored to specify the device you want to mirror to by IP address or FQDN. I don't think I'm asking for too much from the man but, alas, perhaps I am. Disappointed yet again by Apple network protocols, Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 4:57 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Would be interesting to contemplate a petition or similar from the Educause
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
My concern isn't so much the bandwidth associated with active connections between these devices as it is the discovery process. All the bonjour enabled devices are constantly attempting to discover other such devices, most of which there's no value to the user in connecting to. If, like we do, you have large b-cast domains, that discovery traffic bogs down an 802.11n network and can cripple an a/g network. IP or FQDN access to these devices would allow clients to connect selectively to devices they need to use, while keeping the excessive discovery traffic of the network. Chuck Enfield Sr. Communications Engineer Telecommunications Networking Services The Pennsylvania State University 110H, USB2, UP, PA 16802 ph: 814.863.8715 fx: 814.865-3988 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike Goebel Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 12:08 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. I assumed with mDNS it didn't just hit it's local subnet. I've been on the nightmare side of getting Audio/Video stuff to talk over IP with hundreds of classrooms and that isn't a whole lot of fun either. Mike Goebel Network Programmer Office of Information Technology Western Michigan University Phone: 269-387-0453 Email: michael.goe...@wmich.edu On 2/22/2012 11:42 AM, Lee H Badman wrote: To me, it's less about bandwidth than it is expectations that you'll change the network design to accommodate these things because some of the require all devices to be on the same class C subnet, don't do 1x for security, etc. -Lee -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike Goebel Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 11:09 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Has anyone actually tracked how much bandwidth/usage Bonjour coughs up across their wlan infrastructure? I haven't analyzed it, and while it could be bandwidth hungry, it appears to me that will be more with device to device. I'm playing devils advocate here, but is a 6 meg stream on an N access point both ways really going to be crunching anyone? I'd be worried about G yes, but N with a gig uplink? I do find it unnerving that all the bonjour devices are able to find each other and potentially create a lot of traffic, but 99.9% of the time I don't see anyone working any access point very hard. Mike Goebel Network Programmer Office of Information Technology Western Michigan University Phone: 269-387-0453 Email: michael.goe...@wmich.edu On 2/22/2012 10:18 AM, Kellogg, Brian D. wrote: We will need Bonjour in order to allow faculty members to mirror their iPads/WhateverAppleProductElse to an AppleTV in a classroom for presentations wirelessly. Presently we block all mcast and bcast on our WLAN due to the channel use overhead this incurs (anywhere from 10% to 20%). We'll be moving to Aruba this summer where enabling bcast and mcast is not an all or nothing endeavor I believe. I think Aruba is integrating some stuff into their controller code to help with this problem or already has it. Someone who knows more about Aruba can correct me if I'm wrong. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian David Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:11 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. We are faced with the same issues here at BC... We are starting to block it for all students but have not for the Faculty. Could you give more details on what apps the faculty needed bonjour for? -Brian Brian J David Network Systems Engineer Boston College -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian Helman Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 9:54 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Agreed. We are blocking bonjour between buildings, but not within. I wanted to block within, but there are apps out there that the faculty want to use that require it. That was the compromise I settled on... looking forward to 802.11ac now. I thought my days of dealing with AppleTalk, IPX and Netbeui were done. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 5:21 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV supportfor instructors.
It wasn't that many years ago that Apple defined Bonjour/mDNS as an experimental protocol for small networks without a DNS server. Our network isn't small. It has DNS servers. With some of our current equipment, multicast just turns into a broadcast flood. (Multicast imaging with Ghost *kills* us.) Oh but oops -- we use some Apple hardware and software, so I guess those don't matter. David Gillett CISSP CCNP -Original Message- From: Jeff Kell [mailto:jeff-k...@utc.edu] Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 07:25 To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV supportfor instructors. On 2/22/2012 10:07 AM, Fred Mowchan wrote: Loved the comment on ATK, IPX, Neteui. Like Yogi Berra said this is like deja vu all over again! Yes, routing breaks traditional AT, IPX, NetBEUI, etc. So what clown woke up and said Hey! Let's just multicast it, that's routable... Jeff ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
So it's not just about the bandwidth. B'cast M'cast use the lowest configured data rate of the AP - just like wireless management frames. This means that even for 300Mbps 802.11n network is reduced to 24Mbps or less. That also ties up airtime that could be given to faster clients as well, since transmitting data at a lower data rate consumes more time that transmitting data at a higher data rate. So even if it is a low bit-rate stream, it takes away more available bandwidth from other clients. Aruba has a method that takes b'cast m'cast and converts it to higher speed unicast traffic to each client. This gives better results for about up to 12 clients on an AP/radio. - Stan Brooks - CWNA/CWSP Emory University University Technology Services 404.727.0226 AIM/Y!/Twitter: WLANstan MSN: wlans...@hotmail.com GoogleTalk: wlans...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: Mike Goebel michael.goe...@wmich.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 11:09:16 -0500 To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Has anyone actually tracked how much bandwidth/usage Bonjour coughs up across their wlan infrastructure? I haven't analyzed it, and while it could be bandwidth hungry, it appears to me that will be more with device to device. I'm playing devils advocate here, but is a 6 meg stream on an N access point both ways really going to be crunching anyone? I'd be worried about G yes, but N with a gig uplink? I do find it unnerving that all the bonjour devices are able to find each other and potentially create a lot of traffic, but 99.9% of the time I don't see anyone working any access point very hard. Mike Goebel Network Programmer Office of Information Technology Western Michigan University Phone: 269-387-0453 Email: michael.goe...@wmich.edu On 2/22/2012 10:18 AM, Kellogg, Brian D. wrote: We will need Bonjour in order to allow faculty members to mirror their iPads/WhateverAppleProductElse to an AppleTV in a classroom for presentations wirelessly. Presently we block all mcast and bcast on our WLAN due to the channel use overhead this incurs (anywhere from 10% to 20%). We'll be moving to Aruba this summer where enabling bcast and mcast is not an all or nothing endeavor I believe. I think Aruba is integrating some stuff into their controller code to help with this problem or already has it. Someone who knows more about Aruba can correct me if I'm wrong. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian David Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:11 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. We are faced with the same issues here at BC... We are starting to block it for all students but have not for the Faculty. Could you give more details on what apps the faculty needed bonjour for? -Brian Brian J David Network Systems Engineer Boston College -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian Helman Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 9:54 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Agreed. We are blocking bonjour between buildings, but not within. I wanted to block within, but there are apps out there that the faculty want to use that require it. That was the compromise I settled on... looking forward to 802.11ac now. I thought my days of dealing with AppleTalk, IPX and Netbeui were done. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 5:21 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Had an Apple rep in recently and he stated Apple (Bonjour) has come a long way since Appletalk on their network protocols. I wanted to believe him and then I tried to use it on our campus. LAN only protocol that relies on mDNS registration to bridge networks assuming all your end devices support it of course. Reminds me of LAN/SOHO only protocols I worked with a decade ago. Why not allow the device being mirrored to specify the device you want to mirror to by IP address or FQDN. I don't think I'm asking for too much from the man but, alas, perhaps I am. Disappointed yet again by Apple network protocols, Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf
RE: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
Yep Add to this the fact that if you enable mcast/bcast the vast majority of the traffic taking up that air time isn't of any use/worth; Bonjour ... SSDP. I'm thankful Aruba is addressing the issue, very, but unfortunately not surprised that Apple's solution thus far is to just deal with it. I honestly like Apple products and software, but they are not enterprise ready/worthy IMHO. Who am I to try and dissuade the emotional sea of consumer demand insisting enterprise adoption (interoperability anyone?). I asked the same Apple rep about running their server OS on VMware. I was not surprised by the answer; sure, but only on our hardware. Lol, They kill me. -Brian Kellogg -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brooks, Stan Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 12:49 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. So it's not just about the bandwidth. B'cast M'cast use the lowest configured data rate of the AP - just like wireless management frames. This means that even for 300Mbps 802.11n network is reduced to 24Mbps or less. That also ties up airtime that could be given to faster clients as well, since transmitting data at a lower data rate consumes more time that transmitting data at a higher data rate. So even if it is a low bit-rate stream, it takes away more available bandwidth from other clients. Aruba has a method that takes b'cast m'cast and converts it to higher speed unicast traffic to each client. This gives better results for about up to 12 clients on an AP/radio. - Stan Brooks - CWNA/CWSP Emory University University Technology Services 404.727.0226 AIM/Y!/Twitter: WLANstan MSN: wlans...@hotmail.com GoogleTalk: wlans...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: Mike Goebel michael.goe...@wmich.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 11:09:16 -0500 To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Has anyone actually tracked how much bandwidth/usage Bonjour coughs up across their wlan infrastructure? I haven't analyzed it, and while it could be bandwidth hungry, it appears to me that will be more with device to device. I'm playing devils advocate here, but is a 6 meg stream on an N access point both ways really going to be crunching anyone? I'd be worried about G yes, but N with a gig uplink? I do find it unnerving that all the bonjour devices are able to find each other and potentially create a lot of traffic, but 99.9% of the time I don't see anyone working any access point very hard. Mike Goebel Network Programmer Office of Information Technology Western Michigan University Phone: 269-387-0453 Email: michael.goe...@wmich.edu On 2/22/2012 10:18 AM, Kellogg, Brian D. wrote: We will need Bonjour in order to allow faculty members to mirror their iPads/WhateverAppleProductElse to an AppleTV in a classroom for presentations wirelessly. Presently we block all mcast and bcast on our WLAN due to the channel use overhead this incurs (anywhere from 10% to 20%). We'll be moving to Aruba this summer where enabling bcast and mcast is not an all or nothing endeavor I believe. I think Aruba is integrating some stuff into their controller code to help with this problem or already has it. Someone who knows more about Aruba can correct me if I'm wrong. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian David Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:11 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. We are faced with the same issues here at BC... We are starting to block it for all students but have not for the Faculty. Could you give more details on what apps the faculty needed bonjour for? -Brian Brian J David Network Systems Engineer Boston College -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian Helman Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 9:54 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Agreed. We are blocking bonjour between buildings, but not within. I wanted to block within, but there are apps out there that the faculty want to use that require it. That was the compromise I settled on... looking forward to 802.11ac now. I thought my days of dealing with AppleTalk, IPX and Netbeui were done. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
I assume this also correlates with the size of client subnets and your supported data rates. We're using /22s, so are a bit concerned. -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike Goebel Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 11:09 To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Has anyone actually tracked how much bandwidth/usage Bonjour coughs up across their wlan infrastructure? I haven't analyzed it, and while it could be bandwidth hungry, it appears to me that will be more with device to device. I'm playing devils advocate here, but is a 6 meg stream on an N access point both ways really going to be crunching anyone? I'd be worried about G yes, but N with a gig uplink? I do find it unnerving that all the bonjour devices are able to find each other and potentially create a lot of traffic, but 99.9% of the time I don't see anyone working any access point very hard. Mike Goebel Network Programmer Office of Information Technology Western Michigan University Phone: 269-387-0453 Email: michael.goe...@wmich.edu On 2/22/2012 10:18 AM, Kellogg, Brian D. wrote: We will need Bonjour in order to allow faculty members to mirror their iPads/WhateverAppleProductElse to an AppleTV in a classroom for presentations wirelessly. Presently we block all mcast and bcast on our WLAN due to the channel use overhead this incurs (anywhere from 10% to 20%). We'll be moving to Aruba this summer where enabling bcast and mcast is not an all or nothing endeavor I believe. I think Aruba is integrating some stuff into their controller code to help with this problem or already has it. Someone who knows more about Aruba can correct me if I'm wrong. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian David Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:11 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. We are faced with the same issues here at BC... We are starting to block it for all students but have not for the Faculty. Could you give more details on what apps the faculty needed bonjour for? -Brian Brian J David Network Systems Engineer Boston College -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian Helman Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 9:54 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Agreed. We are blocking bonjour between buildings, but not within. I wanted to block within, but there are apps out there that the faculty want to use that require it. That was the compromise I settled on... looking forward to 802.11ac now. I thought my days of dealing with AppleTalk, IPX and Netbeui were done. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 5:21 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Had an Apple rep in recently and he stated Apple (Bonjour) has come a long way since Appletalk on their network protocols. I wanted to believe him and then I tried to use it on our campus. LAN only protocol that relies on mDNS registration to bridge networks assuming all your end devices support it of course. Reminds me of LAN/SOHO only protocols I worked with a decade ago. Why not allow the device being mirrored to specify the device you want to mirror to by IP address or FQDN. I don't think I'm asking for too much from the man but, alas, perhaps I am. Disappointed yet again by Apple network protocols, Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 4:57 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Would be interesting to contemplate a petition or similar from the Educause members to Apple requesting that they catch up to the fact that their toys are invading the enterprise, that the enterprise doesn't run on AirPorts, and therefor they might develop towards the enterprise WLAN, Then again, I doubt they'd give a rip. It's a shame that the sexiest devices on the planet have such shallow network development behind them. -Lee From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2/22/2012 3:38 PM, Julian Y Koh wrote: On Wed Feb 22 2012 09:24:46 Central Time, Jeff Kell wrote: Yes, routing breaks traditional AT, IPX, NetBEUI, etc. AppleTalk and IPX at least are totally routable protocols. :) Well, you and I know that, but the Appletalk and IPX people didn't necessarily know that... :) Jeff -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) iEYEARECAAYFAk9FU0oACgkQiwXJq373XhZpEQCg9RhjrJXlwinLAofaT7Rjvh3U 7tUAnjuNM3UG93mnsVLR4bbATSiZv1xY =nO8G -END PGP SIGNATURE- ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
It's my understanding, at least in the 7.x train of Cisco wireless, that multicast data is transmitted at the highest basic (required) rate. Management frames can also be set to use the highest basic rate and/or kept at the lowest basic rate. Of course, transmitting at the highest basic rate does require smaller cell sizes. There is no client limit that I'm aware of, but even if it was 12 like Aruba, my cells are small enough that it would be rare to see that many clients on a single radio. Cisco also introduced a new multicast optimization in 7.0.116, so when using VLAN pooling, you wind up with only a single multicast stream no matter how many VLANs are in the pool. This is a big plus if say you have 10 clients all on the same AP, but all in different VLANs. Instead of 10 copies (1 per VLAN) of the multicast stream going out over the air, there is only one that all clients listen to. Jeff On Wednesday, February 22, 2012 at 9:49 AM, in message cb6a92f7.2586b%stan.bro...@emory.edu, Brooks, Stan stan.bro...@emory.edu wrote: So it's not just about the bandwidth. B'cast M'cast use the lowest configured data rate of the AP - just like wireless management frames. This means that even for 300Mbps 802.11n network is reduced to 24Mbps or less. That also ties up airtime that could be given to faster clients as well, since transmitting data at a lower data rate consumes more time that transmitting data at a higher data rate. So even if it is a low bit-rate stream, it takes away more available bandwidth from other clients. Aruba has a method that takes b'cast m'cast and converts it to higher speed unicast traffic to each client. This gives better results for about up to 12 clients on an AP/radio. - Stan Brooks - CWNA/CWSP Emory University University Technology Services 404.727.0226 AIM/Y!/Twitter: WLANstan MSN: wlans...@hotmail.com GoogleTalk: wlans...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: Mike Goebel michael.goe...@wmich.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 11:09:16 -0500 To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Has anyone actually tracked how much bandwidth/usage Bonjour coughs up across their wlan infrastructure? I haven't analyzed it, and while it could be bandwidth hungry, it appears to me that will be more with device to device. I'm playing devils advocate here, but is a 6 meg stream on an N access point both ways really going to be crunching anyone? I'd be worried about G yes, but N with a gig uplink? I do find it unnerving that all the bonjour devices are able to find each other and potentially create a lot of traffic, but 99.9% of the time I don't see anyone working any access point very hard. Mike Goebel Network Programmer Office of Information Technology Western Michigan University Phone: 269-387-0453 Email: michael.goe...@wmich.edu On 2/22/2012 10:18 AM, Kellogg, Brian D. wrote: We will need Bonjour in order to allow faculty members to mirror their iPads/WhateverAppleProductElse to an AppleTV in a classroom for presentations wirelessly. Presently we block all mcast and bcast on our WLAN due to the channel use overhead this incurs (anywhere from 10% to 20%). We'll be moving to Aruba this summer where enabling bcast and mcast is not an all or nothing endeavor I believe. I think Aruba is integrating some stuff into their controller code to help with this problem or already has it. Someone who knows more about Aruba can correct me if I'm wrong. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian David Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:11 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. We are faced with the same issues here at BC... We are starting to block it for all students but have not for the Faculty. Could you give more details on what apps the faculty needed bonjour for? -Brian Brian J David Network Systems Engineer Boston College -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian Helman Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 9:54 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Agreed. We are blocking bonjour between buildings, but not within. I wanted to block within, but there are apps out there that the faculty want to use that require it. That was the compromise I settled on... looking forward to 802.11ac now. I thought my days of dealing with AppleTalk, IPX and Netbeui were done. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
I just heard an interesting solution for this. Since AppleTV is already consumer tech and does not need Internet (their classroom use is pretty much just AirPlay), the person went out and bought a cheap $30 wireless router off the shelf at Walmart for each AppleTV. Each device is now on its own unrouted subnet, and bonjour can do what it wants in that space. Sent from my iPod On Feb 22, 2012, at 9:43 AM, Craig Eyre ce...@mtroyal.ca wrote: Hey All, We are looking into a similar solution but I'm more concerned about what others have thought about the following. 1. Management of the apple tv's 2. security of the devices 3. Non apple devices connecting? 4. Would you hardwire or do wifi for the apple tv box itself? We have roughly 300 classrooms with projectors and that seems like a management nightmare, but maybe I'm missing all the peices. Regards, Craig Eyre Network Analyst IT Services Department Mount Royal University 4825 Mount Royal Gate SW Calgary AB T2P 3T5 P. 403.440.5199 E. ce...@mtroyal.ca The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather in a lack of will. Vincent T. Lombardi From:Cappalli, Tim G @ LSC-ITS tim.cappa...@lsc.vsc.edu To:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date:02/22/2012 08:38 AM Subject:Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Sent by:The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Aruba will be addressing the Bonjour issue in a future release. I heard it is going into beta soon. If I remember correctly, they will provide a way to tunnel the bonjour traffic to the AppleTV without routing and without allowing all broadcast and multicast traffic. Tim Cappalli, CCNA ACMA | IT Services | (802) 626-6456 » tim.cappa...@lyndonstate.edu | it.lyndonstate.edu (Embedded image moved to file: pic24778.jpg)Description: Description: T:\IT Staff\Lyndon ITS Logo Package\LyndonITS\LyndonITS_Md-emailsig.jpg PRIVACY CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, confidential, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of an email received in error is prohibited. -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [ mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:18 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. We will need Bonjour in order to allow faculty members to mirror their iPads/WhateverAppleProductElse to an AppleTV in a classroom for presentations wirelessly. Presently we block all mcast and bcast on our WLAN due to the channel use overhead this incurs (anywhere from 10% to 20%). We'll be moving to Aruba this summer where enabling bcast and mcast is not an all or nothing endeavor I believe. I think Aruba is integrating some stuff into their controller code to help with this problem or already has it. Someone who knows more about Aruba can correct me if I'm wrong. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian David Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:11 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. We are faced with the same issues here at BC... We are starting to block it for all students but have not for the Faculty. Could you give more details on what apps the faculty needed bonjour for? -Brian Brian J David Network Systems Engineer Boston College -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian Helman Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 9:54 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Agreed. We are blocking bonjour between buildings, but not within. I wanted to block within, but there are apps out there that the faculty want to use that require it. That was the compromise I settled on... looking forward to 802.11ac now. I thought my days of dealing with AppleTalk, IPX and Netbeui were done. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 5:21 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
And a 35-50 mW noise maker sits among several low-power cells, where there is no such this as a spare channel. Most WLAN policies cover RF and forbid this sort of thing... the wired network is part of the issue, competing wireless is another. -Lee -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Joel Coehoorn Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 9:21 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. I just heard an interesting solution for this. Since AppleTV is already consumer tech and does not need Internet (their classroom use is pretty much just AirPlay), the person went out and bought a cheap $30 wireless router off the shelf at Walmart for each AppleTV. Each device is now on its own unrouted subnet, and bonjour can do what it wants in that space. Sent from my iPod On Feb 22, 2012, at 9:43 AM, Craig Eyre ce...@mtroyal.ca wrote: Hey All, We are looking into a similar solution but I'm more concerned about what others have thought about the following. 1. Management of the apple tv's 2. security of the devices 3. Non apple devices connecting? 4. Would you hardwire or do wifi for the apple tv box itself? We have roughly 300 classrooms with projectors and that seems like a management nightmare, but maybe I'm missing all the peices. Regards, Craig Eyre Network Analyst IT Services Department Mount Royal University 4825 Mount Royal Gate SW Calgary AB T2P 3T5 P. 403.440.5199 E. ce...@mtroyal.ca The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather in a lack of will. Vincent T. Lombardi From:Cappalli, Tim G @ LSC-ITS tim.cappa...@lsc.vsc.edu To:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date:02/22/2012 08:38 AM Subject:Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Sent by:The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Aruba will be addressing the Bonjour issue in a future release. I heard it is going into beta soon. If I remember correctly, they will provide a way to tunnel the bonjour traffic to the AppleTV without routing and without allowing all broadcast and multicast traffic. Tim Cappalli, CCNA ACMA | IT Services | (802) 626-6456 » tim.cappa...@lyndonstate.edu | it.lyndonstate.edu (Embedded image moved to file: pic24778.jpg)Description: Description: T:\IT Staff\Lyndon ITS Logo Package\LyndonITS\LyndonITS_Md-emailsig.jpg PRIVACY CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, confidential, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of an email received in error is prohibited. -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [ mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:18 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. We will need Bonjour in order to allow faculty members to mirror their iPads/WhateverAppleProductElse to an AppleTV in a classroom for presentations wirelessly. Presently we block all mcast and bcast on our WLAN due to the channel use overhead this incurs (anywhere from 10% to 20%). We'll be moving to Aruba this summer where enabling bcast and mcast is not an all or nothing endeavor I believe. I think Aruba is integrating some stuff into their controller code to help with this problem or already has it. Someone who knows more about Aruba can correct me if I'm wrong. -Brian -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian David Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:11 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. We are faced with the same issues here at BC... We are starting to block it for all students but have not for the Faculty. Could you give more details on what apps the faculty needed bonjour for? -Brian Brian J David Network Systems Engineer Boston College -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian Helman Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 9:54 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Agreed. We are blocking bonjour between buildings, but not
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
On 2/22/2012 9:21 PM, Joel Coehoorn wrote: I just heard an interesting solution for this. Since AppleTV is already consumer tech and does not need Internet (their classroom use is pretty much just AirPlay), the person went out and bought a cheap $30 wireless router off the shelf at Walmart for each AppleTV. Each device is now on its own unrouted subnet, and bonjour can do what it wants in that space. We considered that, but one or both of them (TV or instructor device) is going to want internet too but can only connect to one SSID, and you're adding to the unmanaged RF interference in a potentially noisy area already. Jeff ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
