RE: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
Since this is an enterprise issue, why exclude them from the petition? If some big enterprise customers governments were on the petition, it would have a better chance of at least being noticed. I would expect that an enterprise like Boeing would have more impact on Apple than any educational institution, for example. Bruce Osborne Network Engineer IT Network Services (434) 592-4229 LIBERTY UNIVERSITY Training Champions for Christ since 1971 -Original Message- From: Johnson, Neil M [mailto:neil-john...@uiowa.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 3:10 PM Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. How is this for a start :-) Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, here by solemnly request that Apple provide support or Airplay technology in enterprise wireless networks. Failure to provide this support severely limits the usefulness (and desirability) of Apple products in our institutions. At your earliest convenience please provide us with a roadmap for support of Airplay and related technologies in enterprise wireless environments. Thank you. - -Neil -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu On 7/5/12 1:47 PM, Watters, John john.watt...@ua.edu wrote: I bet if you would write something up we could get signatures from just about every college and university. Do you have time to work up a short document that could be passed around on this list (and to others interested in this subject)? We need to convince (or coerce) Apple into playing nice in the enterprise space with all of their products. -jcw - John WattersUA: OIT 205-348-3992 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 1:05 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. You mean a good-looking, man-of-action blogger? Hmmm. Let me call the agency, see if they have anyone on staff. I was thinking more like a couple of hundred well-known institutions of higher Ed all signing the same doc. Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Johnson, Neil M [neil-john...@uiowa.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 1:23 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Or maybe a well known blogger could write an article about it.. :-) -Neil -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu From: Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edumailto:lhbad...@syr.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE. EDU Date: Thursday, July 5, 2012 8:56 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE. EDU WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE. EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. ...or somehow have everyone on the Educause list sign a petition that gets presented to Apple- if you can gain entry into the Bubble of Blissful Perfection. From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE. EDU] on behalf of jkaf...@utica.edumailto:jkaf...@utica.edu [jkaf...@utica.edumailto:jkaf...@utica.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 9:10 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.E DU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Has anyone tried not supporting Bonjour and directing users who complain to Apple? Perhaps if we all did that it would get Apple's attention. John Kaftan Infrastructure Manager Utica College - Reply message - From: Andy Voelker avoel...@email.wcu.edumailto:avoel...@email.wcu.edu Date: Thu, Jul 5, 2012 8:23 am Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. To: WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edumailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause. edu Ours completely denied the existence of a possible issue. Of course, you could see in his eyes that his answer was somewhat
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.)
One more thing. I think use of an online petition tool might help things out organizationally. http://www.change.org/petition there are others, that was the first Google result. Mike On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edu wrote: So... two thoughts. Perhaps give it another week for people to chime in with their gripes and let the list discuss them? Then perhaps digital signatures- DocuSign is free and elegant. I guess also, a courtesy inquiry to Phillipe over whether he sees this as prudent list of the group is probably in order. Say, Phillipe- do you see this as prudent use of the list? Thanks, Lee Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [ WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Curtis K. Larsen [ curtis.k.lar...@utah.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 5:01 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) You should add fast-roaming to the list. No Mac or iOS device supports fast roaming with Opportunistic Key Caching. They can do PMK Sticky, but it is not the same as OKC. With Sticky, it is only fast when you roam back to an AP you've been on, and the client can only cache up to 8 AP's. Curtis Larsen Wireless Network Engineer University of Utah 801-587-1313 On 07/05/2012 02:46 PM, Lee H Badman wrote: Pretty much what I was thinking (ballpark) with all Educause schools individually signed on. May not amount to anything, but would in itself be media fodder. Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [ WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Johnson, Neil M [ neil-john...@uiowa.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 3:37 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) I'm a little fuzzy on the specifics things to request from Apple, but here is a first pass): Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, hereby solemnly request that Apple provide support for Airplay technology in enterprise wireless networks. Specifically, we request the following (in order of priority): * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be discoverable across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets or lacking that: * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be easily statically configured to be accessible across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets * That the Apple TV support Enterprise Wireless Encryption and Authentication (WPA2-Enterprise) * That authentication to the Apple TV be able to utilize enterprise authentication services (LDAP and/or AD) Failure to provide this support severely limits the usefulness (and desirability) of Apple products in our institutions. At your earliest convenience please provide us with a roadmap for support of Airplay and related technologies in enterprise wireless environments. Thank you. -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu From:Watters, Johnjohn.watt...@ua.edumailto:john.watt...@ua.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Thursday, July 5, 2012 2:23 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUWIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, here by solemnly request that Apple provide support or Airplay technology in enterprise wireless networks. Failure to provide this support severely limits the usefulness (and desirability) of Apple products in our institutions. At your earliest convenience please provide us with a roadmap for support of Airplay and related technologies in enterprise
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.)
This has worked at least once before on Apple. http://www.change.org/petitions/apple-protect-workers-making-iphones-in-chinese-factories-3 According to the petition over 250,000 signed on to the appeal for change From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike King Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 6:47 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) One more thing. I think use of an online petition tool might help things out organizationally. http://www.change.org/petition there are others, that was the first Google result. Mike On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edumailto:lhbad...@syr.edu wrote: So... two thoughts. Perhaps give it another week for people to chime in with their gripes and let the list discuss them? Then perhaps digital signatures- DocuSign is free and elegant. I guess also, a courtesy inquiry to Phillipe over whether he sees this as prudent list of the group is probably in order. Say, Phillipe- do you see this as prudent use of the list? Thanks, Lee Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003tel:315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Curtis K. Larsen [curtis.k.lar...@utah.edumailto:curtis.k.lar...@utah.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 5:01 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) You should add fast-roaming to the list. No Mac or iOS device supports fast roaming with Opportunistic Key Caching. They can do PMK Sticky, but it is not the same as OKC. With Sticky, it is only fast when you roam back to an AP you've been on, and the client can only cache up to 8 AP's. Curtis Larsen Wireless Network Engineer University of Utah 801-587-1313tel:801-587-1313 On 07/05/2012 02:46 PM, Lee H Badman wrote: Pretty much what I was thinking (ballpark) with all Educause schools individually signed on. May not amount to anything, but would in itself be media fodder. Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003tel:315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Johnson, Neil M [neil-john...@uiowa.edumailto:neil-john...@uiowa.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 3:37 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) I'm a little fuzzy on the specifics things to request from Apple, but here is a first pass): Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, hereby solemnly request that Apple provide support for Airplay technology in enterprise wireless networks. Specifically, we request the following (in order of priority): * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be discoverable across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets or lacking that: * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be easily statically configured to be accessible across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets * That the Apple TV support Enterprise Wireless Encryption and Authentication (WPA2-Enterprise) * That authentication to the Apple TV be able to utilize enterprise authentication services (LDAP and/or AD) Failure to provide this support severely limits the usefulness (and desirability) of Apple products in our institutions. At your earliest convenience please provide us with a roadmap for support of Airplay and related technologies in enterprise wireless environments. Thank you. -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938tel:319%20384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951tel:319%20335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081tel:319%20540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edumailto:neil-john...@uiowa.edu From:Watters, Johnjohn.watt...@ua.edumailto:john.watt...@ua.edumailto:john.watt...@ua.edumailto:john.watt...@ua.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group
RE: Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.)
I agree although I expect nothing will come of it. Their stock price is far too high for them to be bothered with concern. I wish I could be more of an optimist sometimes. Brian From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Bruce Boardman Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 9:25 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) I think it's a good idea to reach out to Apple, even if ignored, for two reasons, so they know it's comming, and so they know it's important and not just a group of loud mouth limes. |Bruce Boardman, Network Engineer, Syracuse University - 315 889-1667 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Mike King [m...@mpking.com] Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 7:47 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) One more thing. I think use of an online petition tool might help things out organizationally. http://www.change.org/petition there are others, that was the first Google result. Mike On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edumailto:lhbad...@syr.edu wrote: So... two thoughts. Perhaps give it another week for people to chime in with their gripes and let the list discuss them? Then perhaps digital signatures- DocuSign is free and elegant. I guess also, a courtesy inquiry to Phillipe over whether he sees this as prudent list of the group is probably in order. Say, Phillipe- do you see this as prudent use of the list? Thanks, Lee Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003tel:315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Curtis K. Larsen [curtis.k.lar...@utah.edumailto:curtis.k.lar...@utah.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 5:01 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) You should add fast-roaming to the list. No Mac or iOS device supports fast roaming with Opportunistic Key Caching. They can do PMK Sticky, but it is not the same as OKC. With Sticky, it is only fast when you roam back to an AP you've been on, and the client can only cache up to 8 AP's. Curtis Larsen Wireless Network Engineer University of Utah 801-587-1313tel:801-587-1313 On 07/05/2012 02:46 PM, Lee H Badman wrote: Pretty much what I was thinking (ballpark) with all Educause schools individually signed on. May not amount to anything, but would in itself be media fodder. Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003tel:315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Johnson, Neil M [neil-john...@uiowa.edumailto:neil-john...@uiowa.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 3:37 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) I'm a little fuzzy on the specifics things to request from Apple, but here is a first pass): Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, hereby solemnly request that Apple provide support for Airplay technology in enterprise wireless networks. Specifically, we request the following (in order of priority): * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be discoverable across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets or lacking that: * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be easily statically configured to be accessible across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets * That the Apple TV support Enterprise Wireless Encryption and Authentication (WPA2-Enterprise) * That authentication to the Apple TV be able to utilize enterprise authentication services (LDAP and/or AD) Failure to provide this support severely limits the usefulness (and desirability) of Apple products in our institutions. At your earliest
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.)
Thank you Lee. I definitely believe that it is a great use of the list...A request made by Academia and for Academia Let me add: Even as an Apple shareholder, (no conflict of interest, more of a vested interest in the matter ;-), I believe that it is way past our time to voice our opinion strongly. We cannot continue to create ugly hacks to support those enterprise non-friendly protocols. I love my Apple TV and can imagine that students and faculty feel the same. I would like to support these cool devices on campus, but how? (and without destroying my Wi-Fi!) The local Student Apple representative on our campus asked me if he could bring up an Apple Airport Extreme on campus to show the features of Airplay to students... (I almost lost it ;-). In a cense, we don't need to be too detailed in our request it could be: Apple! help use support AirPlay on our campus networks Just to start a dialog (and add a few specifics) Should we start with a petition, as you all suggested, and if we get no response, we try the FaceBook approach (create a group). Or immediately go the FB way? I agree with the maturity process of a week. Philippe Univ. of TN On Jul 5, 2012, at 5:12 PM, Lee H Badman wrote: So... two thoughts. Perhaps give it another week for people to chime in with their gripes and let the list discuss them? Then perhaps digital signatures- DocuSign is free and elegant. I guess also, a courtesy inquiry to Phillipe over whether he sees this as prudent list of the group is probably in order. Say, Phillipe- do you see this as prudent use of the list? Thanks, Lee Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Curtis K. Larsen [curtis.k.lar...@utah.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 5:01 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) You should add fast-roaming to the list. No Mac or iOS device supports fast roaming with Opportunistic Key Caching. They can do PMK Sticky, but it is not the same as OKC. With Sticky, it is only fast when you roam back to an AP you've been on, and the client can only cache up to 8 AP's. Curtis Larsen Wireless Network Engineer University of Utah 801-587-1313 On 07/05/2012 02:46 PM, Lee H Badman wrote: Pretty much what I was thinking (ballpark) with all Educause schools individually signed on. May not amount to anything, but would in itself be media fodder. Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Johnson, Neil M [neil-john...@uiowa.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 3:37 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) I'm a little fuzzy on the specifics things to request from Apple, but here is a first pass): Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, hereby solemnly request that Apple provide support for Airplay technology in enterprise wireless networks. Specifically, we request the following (in order of priority): * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be discoverable across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets or lacking that: * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be easily statically configured to be accessible across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets * That the Apple TV support Enterprise Wireless Encryption and Authentication (WPA2-Enterprise) * That authentication to the Apple TV be able to utilize enterprise authentication services (LDAP and/or AD) Failure to provide this support severely limits the usefulness (and desirability) of Apple products in our institutions. At your earliest convenience please provide us with a roadmap for support of Airplay and related technologies in enterprise wireless environments. Thank you. -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu From:Watters, Johnjohn.watt...@ua.edumailto:john.watt...@ua.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.)
Lets do both, petition that points to the FB page, that way it will be easier for Apple to circulate our concerns within apple., amaybe we get some enterprise particpation. |Bruce Boardman, Network Engineer, Syracuse University - 315 889-1667 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Hanset, Philippe C [phan...@utk.edu] Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 10:00 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) Thank you Lee. I definitely believe that it is a great use of the list...A request made by Academia and for Academia Let me add: Even as an Apple shareholder, (no conflict of interest, more of a vested interest in the matter ;-), I believe that it is way past our time to voice our opinion strongly. We cannot continue to create ugly hacks to support those enterprise non-friendly protocols. I love my Apple TV and can imagine that students and faculty feel the same. I would like to support these cool devices on campus, but how? (and without destroying my Wi-Fi!) The local Student Apple representative on our campus asked me if he could bring up an Apple Airport Extreme on campus to show the features of Airplay to students... (I almost lost it ;-). In a cense, we don't need to be too detailed in our request it could be: Apple! help use support AirPlay on our campus networks Just to start a dialog (and add a few specifics) Should we start with a petition, as you all suggested, and if we get no response, we try the FaceBook approach (create a group). Or immediately go the FB way? I agree with the maturity process of a week. Philippe Univ. of TN On Jul 5, 2012, at 5:12 PM, Lee H Badman wrote: So... two thoughts. Perhaps give it another week for people to chime in with their gripes and let the list discuss them? Then perhaps digital signatures- DocuSign is free and elegant. I guess also, a courtesy inquiry to Phillipe over whether he sees this as prudent list of the group is probably in order. Say, Phillipe- do you see this as prudent use of the list? Thanks, Lee Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Curtis K. Larsen [curtis.k.lar...@utah.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 5:01 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) You should add fast-roaming to the list. No Mac or iOS device supports fast roaming with Opportunistic Key Caching. They can do PMK Sticky, but it is not the same as OKC. With Sticky, it is only fast when you roam back to an AP you've been on, and the client can only cache up to 8 AP's. Curtis Larsen Wireless Network Engineer University of Utah 801-587-1313 On 07/05/2012 02:46 PM, Lee H Badman wrote: Pretty much what I was thinking (ballpark) with all Educause schools individually signed on. May not amount to anything, but would in itself be media fodder. Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Johnson, Neil M [neil-john...@uiowa.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 3:37 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) I'm a little fuzzy on the specifics things to request from Apple, but here is a first pass): Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, hereby solemnly request that Apple provide support for Airplay technology in enterprise wireless networks. Specifically, we request the following (in order of priority): * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be discoverable across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets or lacking that: * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be easily statically configured to be accessible across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets * That the Apple TV support Enterprise Wireless Encryption and Authentication (WPA2-Enterprise) * That authentication to the Apple TV be able to utilize enterprise authentication services (LDAP and/or AD) Failure to
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.)
Apple either does not care or they have not gotten the message. There is no way to know for sure which is the case. There is not a lot we can do about the former, however we can keep trying about regarding the latter. I think the petition is a positive and creative way for us to try and reach them from another angle and collectively. I am fairly excited about how this is coming together. I will forward this thread to our Apple Engineer as a heads up. John Kaftan IT Infrastructure Manager Utica College. From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 9:27 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) I agree although I expect nothing will come of it. Their stock price is far too high for them to be bothered with concern. I wish I could be more of an optimist sometimes. Brian From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Bruce Boardman Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 9:25 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) I think it's a good idea to reach out to Apple, even if ignored, for two reasons, so they know it's comming, and so they know it's important and not just a group of loud mouth limes. |Bruce Boardman, Network Engineer, Syracuse University - 315 889-1667 _ From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Mike King [m...@mpking.com] Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 7:47 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) One more thing. I think use of an online petition tool might help things out organizationally. http://www.change.org/petition there are others, that was the first Google result. Mike On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edu wrote: So... two thoughts. Perhaps give it another week for people to chime in with their gripes and let the list discuss them? Then perhaps digital signatures- DocuSign is free and elegant. I guess also, a courtesy inquiry to Phillipe over whether he sees this as prudent list of the group is probably in order. Say, Phillipe- do you see this as prudent use of the list? Thanks, Lee Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Curtis K. Larsen [curtis.k.lar...@utah.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 5:01 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) You should add fast-roaming to the list. No Mac or iOS device supports fast roaming with Opportunistic Key Caching. They can do PMK Sticky, but it is not the same as OKC. With Sticky, it is only fast when you roam back to an AP you've been on, and the client can only cache up to 8 AP's. Curtis Larsen Wireless Network Engineer University of Utah 801-587-1313 On 07/05/2012 02:46 PM, Lee H Badman wrote: Pretty much what I was thinking (ballpark) with all Educause schools individually signed on. May not amount to anything, but would in itself be media fodder. Lee H. Badman Wireless/Network Engineer, ITS Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315.443.3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Johnson, Neil M [neil-john...@uiowa.edu] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 3:37 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) I'm a little fuzzy on the specifics things to request from Apple, but here is a first pass): Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, hereby solemnly request that Apple provide support for Airplay technology in enterprise wireless networks. Specifically, we request the following (in order of priority): * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be discoverable across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets or lacking that: * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.)
I've added a section on solution criteria: Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, hereby solemnly request that Apple provide support for Airplay technology in enterprise networks. Specifically, we request the following (in order of priority): * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be discoverable across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets, or lacking that: * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be easily statically configured to be accessible across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets * That the Apple TV support Enterprise Wireless Encryption and Authentication (WPA2-Enterprise) * That authentication to the Apple TV be able to utilize enterprise authentication services (LDAP and/or AD) Any enterprise Airplay solution needs to meet the following criteria: * It must scale to 100's-1000's of Airplay enabled devices. * It must not significantly negatively impact network traffic (wired and wireless). * It must be easily manageable at scale. * It must be provided at a reasonable cost Failure to provide this support severely limits the usefulness (and desirability) of Apple products in our institutions. At your earliest convenience please provide us with a roadmap for support of Airplay and related technologies in enterprise wireless environments. Thank you. -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu From: John Kaftan jkaf...@utica.edumailto:jkaf...@utica.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Friday, July 6, 2012 9:11 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) Apple either does not care or they have not gotten the message. There is no way to know for sure which is the case. There is not a lot we can do about the former, however we can keep trying about regarding the latter. I think the petition is a positive and creative way for us to try and reach them from another angle and collectively. I am fairly excited about how this is coming together. I will forward this thread to our Apple Engineer as a heads up. John Kaftan IT Infrastructure Manager Utica College. From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 9:27 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edumailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) I agree although I expect nothing will come of it. Their stock price is far too high for them to be bothered with concern. I wish I could be more of an optimist sometimes. Brian From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Bruce Boardman Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 9:25 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) I think it's a good idea to reach out to Apple, even if ignored, for two reasons, so they know it's comming, and so they know it's important and not just a group of loud mouth limes. |Bruce Boardman, Network Engineer, Syracuse University - 315 889-1667 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Mike King [m...@mpking.commailto:m...@mpking.com] Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 7:47 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) One more thing. I think use of an online petition tool might help things out organizationally. http://www.change.org/petition there are others, that was the first Google result. Mike On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edumailto:lhbad...@syr.edu wrote: So... two thoughts. Perhaps give it another week for people to chime in with their gripes and let the list discuss them? Then perhaps digital signatures- DocuSign is free and elegant. I guess also, a
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.)
I tried to create a Facebook group, but it's requesting I add members to it before it is created. Any suggestions ? -Neil -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu From: Johnson, Neil Johnson neil-john...@uiowa.edumailto:neil-john...@uiowa.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Friday, July 6, 2012 9:26 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) I've added a section on solution criteria: Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, hereby solemnly request that Apple provide support for Airplay technology in enterprise networks. Specifically, we request the following (in order of priority): * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be discoverable across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets, or lacking that: * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be easily statically configured to be accessible across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets * That the Apple TV support Enterprise Wireless Encryption and Authentication (WPA2-Enterprise) * That authentication to the Apple TV be able to utilize enterprise authentication services (LDAP and/or AD) Any enterprise Airplay solution needs to meet the following criteria: * It must scale to 100's-1000's of Airplay enabled devices. * It must not significantly negatively impact network traffic (wired and wireless). * It must be easily manageable at scale. * It must be provided at a reasonable cost Failure to provide this support severely limits the usefulness (and desirability) of Apple products in our institutions. At your earliest convenience please provide us with a roadmap for support of Airplay and related technologies in enterprise wireless environments. Thank you. -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edumailto:neil-john...@uiowa.edu From: John Kaftan jkaf...@utica.edumailto:jkaf...@utica.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Friday, July 6, 2012 9:11 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) Apple either does not care or they have not gotten the message. There is no way to know for sure which is the case. There is not a lot we can do about the former, however we can keep trying about regarding the latter. I think the petition is a positive and creative way for us to try and reach them from another angle and collectively. I am fairly excited about how this is coming together. I will forward this thread to our Apple Engineer as a heads up. John Kaftan IT Infrastructure Manager Utica College. From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 9:27 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edumailto:WIRELESS-LAN@listserv.educause.edu Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) I agree although I expect nothing will come of it. Their stock price is far too high for them to be bothered with concern. I wish I could be more of an optimist sometimes. Brian From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Bruce Boardman Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 9:25 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) I think it's a good idea to reach out to Apple, even if ignored, for two reasons, so they know it's comming, and so they know it's important and not just a group of loud mouth limes. |Bruce Boardman, Network Engineer, Syracuse University - 315 889-1667 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.)
For me, the key point is enterprise networks. When Bonjour first came to my attention, it was officially described as An experimental protocol for small networks without DNS servers. Apparently, Apple's thinking is that if you use their products, your network MUST qualify. I believe THAT is the attitude that needs to be changed. David Gillett From: Johnson, Neil M [neil-john...@uiowa.edu] Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 7:55 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) How about: Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, hereby solemnly request that Apple provide support for Airplay technology in enterprise networks. Specifically, we request the following (in order of priority): * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be easily accessible across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets. * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be easily statically configured to be accessible across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets. * That the Apple TV support Enterprise Wireless Encryption and Authentication (WPA2-Enterprise) * That authentication to the Apple TV be able to utilize enterprise authentication services (LDAP and/or AD) Any enterprise Airplay solution needs to meet the following criteria: * It must scale to 100's-1000's of Airplay enabled devices. * It must work with wired and wireless networks from different vendors. * It must not significantly negatively impact network traffic (wired and wireless). * It must be easily manageable at scale. * If it requires a separate hardware solution, the solution's hardware must be enterprise grade (rack mountable, dual power supplies, etc.) * It must be provided at a reasonable cost Failure to provide this support severely limits the usefulness (and desirability) of Apple products in our institutions. At your earliest convenience please provide us with a roadmap for support of Airplay and related technologies in enterprise wireless environments. Thank you. -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edumailto:neil-john...@uiowa.edu -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu From: Ian McDonald i...@st-andrews.ac.ukmailto:i...@st-andrews.ac.uk Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Friday, July 6, 2012 9:32 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) It must run on a standard size rack-mountable server class piece of hardware! I’m not big on “discovery”, I’d much rather some central registration arbiter system through which the traffic flowed, and probably a separate “Airplay Enterprise” software implementation. We don’t want to have to allow inter-client communications on either our wireless or wired networks. In general though, I’d like to see it looking like it’s a deployable and manageable solution, not something that might work (if you’re lucky) in your house. My 0.02 :) -- ian From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Johnson, Neil M Sent: 06 July 2012 15:26 To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) I've added a section on solution criteria: Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, hereby solemnly request that Apple provide support for Airplay technology in enterprise networks. Specifically, we request the following (in order of priority): * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be discoverable across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets, or lacking that: * That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be easily statically configured to be accessible across multiple
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.)
That is worth mentioning: I'll be disappointed if this petition is limited to AirPlay. The real target here is Bonjour. It's required for an iOS device to use wifi to sync to iTunes. Time Capsule uses it. It is rapidly becoming the cornerstone of Apple's networking story. In fairness, if we give Apple the benefit of the doubt on the experimental part of the mDNS description, then small networks without DNS servers perfectly describes the typical Apple deployment environment. Move beyond that, though, and the experiment has failed. Spectacularly. Just be careful what you ask for. Apple's likely response is to release a new line of AirPort access points for enterprise that work with Bonjour and make Cisco's pricing look like D-Link. Joel Coehoorn IT Director York College, Nebraska 402.363.5603 jcoeho...@york.edu On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 10:08 AM, David Gillett gillettda...@fhda.eduwrote: For me, the key point is enterprise networks. When Bonjour first came to my attention, it was officially described as An experimental protocol for small networks without DNS servers. Apparently, Apple's thinking is that if you use their products, your network MUST qualify. I believe THAT is the attitude that needs to be changed. David Gillett -- *From:* Johnson, Neil M [neil-john...@uiowa.edu] *Sent:* Friday, July 06, 2012 7:55 AM *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) How about: Whereas, we the undersigned academic and research institutions are receiving numerous requests from our faculty, staff, and students for the ability to utilize Airplay technology in classrooms, conference rooms, and other locations, hereby solemnly request that Apple provide support for Airplay technology in enterprise networks. Specifically, we request the following (in order of priority): - That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be easily accessible across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets. - That Apple establish a way for the Apple TV (and other Airplay enabled devices) to be easily statically configured to be accessible across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 subnets. - That the Apple TV support Enterprise Wireless Encryption and Authentication (WPA2-Enterprise) - That authentication to the Apple TV be able to utilize enterprise authentication services (LDAP and/or AD) Any enterprise Airplay solution needs to meet the following criteria: - It must scale to 100's-1000's of Airplay enabled devices. - It must work with wired and wireless networks from different vendors. - It must not significantly negatively impact network traffic (wired and wireless). - It must be easily manageable at scale. - If it requires a separate hardware solution, the solution's hardware must be enterprise grade (rack mountable, dual power supplies, etc.) - It must be provided at a reasonable cost Failure to provide this support severely limits the usefulness (and desirability) of Apple products in our institutions. At your earliest convenience please provide us with a roadmap for support of Airplay and related technologies in enterprise wireless environments. Thank you. -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu From: Ian McDonald i...@st-andrews.ac.uk Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Friday, July 6, 2012 9:32 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.) It must run on a standard size rack-mountable server class piece of hardware! I’m not big on “discovery”, I’d much rather some central registration arbiter system through which the traffic flowed, and probably a separate “Airplay Enterprise” software implementation. We don’t want to have to allow inter-client communications on either our wireless or wired networks. In general though, I’d like to see it looking like it’s a deployable and manageable solution, not something that might work (if you’re lucky) in your house. My 0.02 J -- ian *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [ mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUWIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Johnson, Neil M *Sent:* 06 July 2012 15:26 *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition (Was Re:
Institutional Policy on radio frequencies
I'm researching policies regarding the governance of radio frequency control at other institutions? This seems to pop up annually here where a department goes for a convenient/cheap installation of a product, which inevitably means the device - weather station, score board, energy management - is 2.4GHz. And we tend to learn about it AFTER it is purchased and installed. What I'm trying to find are institutional policies regarding who governs/identifies/recommends/etc wireless devices, whether 802.11 or not. I would like to present this to my management with the hopes of heading off wireless surprises. Thanks, Brian Brian Helman | Director, ITS/Networking Services | *: 978.542.7272 Salem State University, 352 Lafayette St., Salem Massachusetts 01970 GPS: 42.502129, -70.894779 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: Apple Petition
Today it is AppleTV, tomorrow it will be a different device/use/software. The underlying issue, as others have noted, is the Bonjour resource discovery mechanism, what Apple likely needs is a directory service. Once that is solved, the problem will then shift to authentication/authorization/accounting and scalability. I'd suggest: That Apple create non-Bonjour/non-multicast discovery mechanisms that scale in large enterprise environments. That Apple integrate their offerings with enterprise AAA services. -William ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: Apple Petition
Also, for me, the lack of support for WPA2-Enterprise is a head-scratcher. If they go through the trouble of supporting the rest of the encryption schemes, and obviously support it on a bunch of their other products, why randomly leave it out of some products? I’d prioritize that a bit more, personally. -- Toivo Voll Network Engineer Information Technology Communications University of South Florida
RE: Institutional Policy on radio frequencies
The FCC and NTIA govern frequency in the United States. You control short-range airwaves to the extent that your institution can control what is brought onto campus by employees, students, and the public. In the same way it's difficult to legally prevent students from bringing in peanut-based products into a location that may affect students with peanut allergies, institutional legal counsel will likely find it difficult to defend in court a policy that restricts bringing certain objects onto campus. In other words, unless you're the DoD, a strict policy may be non-starter. And don't forget OTARD. The IT department typically finds the most success with restricting 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz interferers by banning the use of those unapproved devices on their wired Ethernet network. So that takes care of rogue routers and the like, but that doesn't help so much wireless to wireless devices (i.e. Bluetooth). Since most of the device you listed are likely owned by the institution and installed by staff, it would be best to have work with IT upper management to articulate the reasons why managing the campus airspace is beneficial for the entire institution, get support from the highest ranks possible, and then continue your education campaign to all the relevant departments. Frank From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian Helman Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 11:28 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Institutional Policy on radio frequencies I'm researching policies regarding the governance of radio frequency control at other institutions? This seems to pop up annually here where a department goes for a convenient/cheap installation of a product, which inevitably means the device - weather station, score board, energy management - is 2.4GHz. And we tend to learn about it AFTER it is purchased and installed. What I'm trying to find are institutional policies regarding who governs/identifies/recommends/etc wireless devices, whether 802.11 or not. I would like to present this to my management with the hopes of heading off wireless surprises. Thanks, Brian Brian Helman | Director, ITS/Networking Services | (: 978.542.7272 Salem State University, 352 Lafayette St., Salem Massachusetts 01970 GPS: 42.502129, -70.894779 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Apple TV/Wide Area Bonjour question
Good afternoon -- I had a question about how you setup Wide Area Bonjour -- in your example below you listed a dns record for _appletv-v2._tcp: 35CF2488F02660B1._appletv-v2._tcp SRV 0 0 3689 utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.edu. ; Replace with unicast FQDN of target host 35CF2488F02660B1._appletv-v2._tcp TXT txtvers=1 hG=-06f6-4f5d-0171-0bcc51d34d14 MniT=167845888 fs=2 Name=utnet-appletv PrVs=65538 DFID=2 EiTS=1 MiTPV=196611 What is the number prefixing the ._appletv-v2._tcp? Is that the serial number of the unit? Thanks for your help! Cheryl-Anne Juba Senior Network Engineer Division of Information Technology University of Maryland 301-405-3042 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Oscar Ricardo Silva Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 7:26 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. As with many of you, I've been tasked with the same thing. I manage the DNS servers so initially tried it with static entries. That didn't quite work so I then setup another server that allowed for dynamic updates. That didn't work either. After basically sniffing traffic between the Apple TV and other devices I was able to figure out the required records. And after that I found the magical dns-sd command: dns-sd -Z _appletv-v2._tcp that would spit out the exact records (in BIND format) that are needed. It seems that if you do a man on dns-sd you don't get all the actual options. Anyway, the important thing here is that I spoke with an Apple engineer and he said Apple specifically disabled streaming to/from an Apple TV. This was a concession they made to content providers and that no amount of DNS records or search domains would allow the Apple TV to be contacted/used from another network. In case anyone is interested, here's the records I gleaned from the Apple TV: $ORIGIN bonjour.utexas.edu. _airplay._tcp PTR utnet-appletv._airplay._tcp utnet-appletv._airplay._tcpSRV 0 0 7000 utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.edu. ; Replace with unicast FQDN of target host utnet-appletv._airplay._tcpTXT deviceid=28:E7:CF:DB:6E:E0 features=0x39f7 model=AppleTV2,1 pw=1 srcvers=120.2 _raop._tcpPTR 28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcp 28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcp SRV 0 0 49152 utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.edu. ; Replace with unicast FQDN of target host 28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcp TXT txtvers=1 ch=2 cn=0,1,2,3 da=true et=0,3 md=0,1,2 pw=true sv=false sr=44100 ss=16 tp=UDP vn=65537 vs=120.2 am=AppleTV2,1 sf=0x4 _appletv-v2._tcp PTR 35CF2488F02660B1._appletv-v2._tcp 35CF2488F02660B1._appletv-v2._tcp SRV 0 0 3689 utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.edu. ; Replace with unicast FQDN of target host 35CF2488F02660B1._appletv-v2._tcp TXT txtvers=1 hG=-06f6-4f5d-0171-0bcc51d34d14 MniT=167845888 fs=2 Name=utnet-appletv PrVs=65538 DFID=2 EiTS=1 MiTPV=196611 _sleep-proxy._udp PTR 70-35-60-63\032utnet-appletv._sleep-proxy._udp 70-35-60-63\032utnet-appletv._sleep-proxy._udp SRV 0 0 55597 utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.edu. ; Replace with unicast FQDN of target host 70-35-60-63\032utnet-appletv._sleep-proxy._udp TXT Oscar Ricardo Silva The University of Texas at Austin On 12/20/2011 06:12 PM, Oscar Ricardo Silva wrote: Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. From: Johnson, Neil M neil-john...@uiowa.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 18:34:42 + Content-Type: text/plain Parts/Attachments: text/plain (166 lines) Thanks. Now I just have to convince our DNS admins to least try it out :-). I'm concerned about how scalable any solution is from a DNS (and device support) aspect. -Neil ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple TV/Wide Area Bonjour question
I thought it was the MAC address of the particular device, but yours is longer than that. Curious. (One of the reasons we didn't want to use Wide-Area Bonjour for this). -Neil -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu On 7/6/12 3:36 PM, Cheryl-Anne Juba cj...@umd.edu wrote: Good afternoon -- I had a question about how you setup Wide Area Bonjour -- in your example below you listed a dns record for _appletv-v2._tcp: 35CF2488F02660B1._appletv-v2._tcp SRV 0 0 3689 utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.edu. ; Replace with unicast FQDN of target host 35CF2488F02660B1._appletv-v2._tcp TXT txtvers=1 hG=-06f6-4f5d-0171-0bcc51d34d14 MniT=167845888 fs=2 Name=utnet-appletv PrVs=65538 DFID=2 EiTS=1 MiTPV=196611 What is the number prefixing the ._appletv-v2._tcp? Is that the serial number of the unit? Thanks for your help! Cheryl-Anne Juba Senior Network Engineer Division of Information Technology University of Maryland 301-405-3042 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Oscar Ricardo Silva Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 7:26 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. As with many of you, I've been tasked with the same thing. I manage the DNS servers so initially tried it with static entries. That didn't quite work so I then setup another server that allowed for dynamic updates. That didn't work either. After basically sniffing traffic between the Apple TV and other devices I was able to figure out the required records. And after that I found the magical dns-sd command: dns-sd -Z _appletv-v2._tcp that would spit out the exact records (in BIND format) that are needed. It seems that if you do a man on dns-sd you don't get all the actual options. Anyway, the important thing here is that I spoke with an Apple engineer and he said Apple specifically disabled streaming to/from an Apple TV. This was a concession they made to content providers and that no amount of DNS records or search domains would allow the Apple TV to be contacted/used from another network. In case anyone is interested, here's the records I gleaned from the Apple TV: $ORIGIN bonjour.utexas.edu. _airplay._tcp PTR utnet-appletv._airplay._tcp utnet-appletv._airplay._tcpSRV 0 0 7000 utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.edu. ; Replace with unicast FQDN of target host utnet-appletv._airplay._tcpTXT deviceid=28:E7:CF:DB:6E:E0 features=0x39f7 model=AppleTV2,1 pw=1 srcvers=120.2 _raop._tcpPTR 28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcp 28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcp SRV 0 0 49152 utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.edu. ; Replace with unicast FQDN of target host 28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcp TXT txtvers=1 ch=2 cn=0,1,2,3 da=true et=0,3 md=0,1,2 pw=true sv=false sr=44100 ss=16 tp=UDP vn=65537 vs=120.2 am=AppleTV2,1 sf=0x4 _appletv-v2._tcp PTR 35CF2488F02660B1._appletv-v2._tcp 35CF2488F02660B1._appletv-v2._tcp SRV 0 0 3689 utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.edu. ; Replace with unicast FQDN of target host 35CF2488F02660B1._appletv-v2._tcp TXT txtvers=1 hG=-06f6-4f5d-0171-0bcc51d34d14 MniT=167845888 fs=2 Name=utnet-appletv PrVs=65538 DFID=2 EiTS=1 MiTPV=196611 _sleep-proxy._udp PTR 70-35-60-63\032utnet-appletv._sleep-proxy._udp 70-35-60-63\032utnet-appletv._sleep-proxy._udp SRV 0 0 55597 utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.edu. ; Replace with unicast FQDN of target host 70-35-60-63\032utnet-appletv._sleep-proxy._udp TXT Oscar Ricardo Silva The University of Texas at Austin On 12/20/2011 06:12 PM, Oscar Ricardo Silva wrote: Subject: Re: You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. From: Johnson, Neil M neil-john...@uiowa.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 18:34:42 + Content-Type: text/plain Parts/Attachments: text/plain (166 lines) Thanks. Now I just have to convince our DNS admins to least try it out :-). I'm concerned about how scalable any solution is from a DNS (and device support) aspect. -Neil ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
