Apple Petition- Mid-Week Sanity Check
Folks, Those interested seem to agree that we'd discuss specific pain points regarding those other Apple devices like AppleTv and any AirPlay/Bonjour-dependent gadgets until Friday, at which point we'd firm up the petition and find a place to host it. Then would come signatures, and ultimately presenting it to Apple, possibly via each of our Apple reps. Neil Johnson has started the companion Facebook group, and has drafted the early version of what everyone appears to want from Apple development in petition form at https://www.facebook.com/groups/enterpriseairplay with 72 members joining thus far. (Thanks, Neil) We have at least one CIO interested, and interested in sharing it with other CIOs via Educause if petition is done in a constructive, fact-based way. We also have a bit of media coverage coming soon on the process, with potentially more to follow. A lot of excellent technical discussion has been spawned during all of this, and as usual, the interaction has been great between list members. All of that being said, it is worth asking: * Is the group still feeling good about the direction this initiative is going in? * Does anyone have any problems with the wording and points in the doc so far? * Is everyone interested able to sign on behalf of their institution/organization? If not, can you get empowered or find someone who can sign? * Has anyone else approached senior IT management and found interest? Any other CIOs game at this point? * Any other mid-week thoughts, concerns, comments on the topic? Regards- Lee Badman ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: Apple Petition
But it's still link-local and requires management of an enterprise-wide flat VLAN architecture. No IP addresses I can see. Just the hardware address. Don't we want something IP based similar to dynamic DNS? Microsoft provided WINS and then Active Directory to allow their OSes to move from local subnet broadcast based discovery. Novell used SLP when they moved from IPX to IP. Don't we want Apple to provide us with something similar? Mearl -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:03 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition I might be misunderstanding something; if so please correct me. When I setup a Linux MDNS server the bonjour devices all auto registered with the DNS server so there were no entries I had to manually create. I used a subdomain to keep them from cluttering up the our root domain for all bonjour devices, but I only tested with a handful of devices and found that some devices would not query MDNS for the resource records. -Brian From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Johnson, Neil M [neil-john...@uiowa.edu] Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:41 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: Apple Petition My concern is that certain fields appear to contain dynamic information like the software version (see srcvers=120.2) and other information (what does 35CF2488F02660B1 mean ?). The only way it seems to collect this information is to connect the device to local net, run Bonjour Browser or run dns-sd -Z command on a MAC and copy and paste results into your DNS configs. If certain data is dynamic then, you are out of luck. -Neil -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu From: Joel Coehoorn jcoeho...@york.edumailto:jcoeho...@york.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 7:22 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition If those entries work, and are all that is needed, then we're not far from full support. It seems like we could get a tool or set of scripts to automate creating/modifying the needed records. Sent from my iPad On Jul 10, 2012, at 7:11 PM, Johnson, Neil M neil-john...@uiowa.edumailto:neil-john...@uiowa.edu wrote: We looked into DNS-SD, but with entries like this (example taken from an earlier e-mail from Oscar Silva at the Univ. or Texas , and confirmed by our own testing): _airplay._tcp PTR utnet-appletv._airplay._tcp utnet-appletv._airplay._tcp SRV 0 0 7000 utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.eduhttp://utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.edu. ; Replace with unicast FQDN of target host utnet-appletv._airplay._tcp TXT deviceid=28:E7:CF:DB:6E:E0 features=0x39f7 model=AppleTV2,1 pw=1 srcvers=120.2 _raop._tcpPTR 28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcpmailto:28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcp 28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcpmailto:28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcp SRV 0 0 49152 utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.eduhttp://utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.edu. ; Replace with unicast FQDN of target host 28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcpmailto:28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcp TXT txtvers=1 ch=2 cn=0,1,2,3 da=true et=0,3 md=0,1,2 pw=true sv=false sr=44100 ss=16 tp=UDP vn=65537 vs=120.2 am=AppleTV2,1 sf=0x4 _appletv-v2._tcp PTR 35CF2488F02660B1._appletv-v2._tcp 35CF2488F02660B1._appletv-v2._tcp SRV 0 0 3689 utnet- appletv.bonjour.utexas.eduhttp://appletv.bonjour.utexas.edu. ; Replace with unicast FQDN of target host 35CF2488F02660B1._appletv-v2._tcp TXT txtvers=1 hG=-06f6-4f5d-0171-0bcc51d34d14 MniT=167845888 fs=2 Name=utnet-appletv PrVs=65538 DFID=2 EiTS=1 MiTPV=196611 _sleep-proxy._udp PTR 70-35-60-63\032utnet-appletv._sleep-proxy._udp 70-35-60-63\032utnet-appletv._sleep-proxy._udp SRV 0 0 55597 utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.eduhttp://utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.edu. ; Replace with unicast FQDN of target host 70-35-60-63\032utnet-appletv._sleep-proxy._udp TXT required for every Apple TV (and no direction from Apple on what entries/fields are actually required) our DNS admins were ready with pitch forks and torches if we attempted saddle them with the the responsibility of trying to maintain records for 100's such devices (not to mention printers, etc.). -Neil -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition
Honestly, if I could just enter a FQDN for an Apple TV or a printer I'd be ecstatic. -Chris On Jul 11, 2012, at 9:43 AM, Danner, Mearl wrote: But it's still link-local and requires management of an enterprise-wide flat VLAN architecture. No IP addresses I can see. Just the hardware address. Don't we want something IP based similar to dynamic DNS? Microsoft provided WINS and then Active Directory to allow their OSes to move from local subnet broadcast based discovery. Novell used SLP when they moved from IPX to IP. Don't we want Apple to provide us with something similar? Mearl -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:03 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition I might be misunderstanding something; if so please correct me. When I setup a Linux MDNS server the bonjour devices all auto registered with the DNS server so there were no entries I had to manually create. I used a subdomain to keep them from cluttering up the our root domain for all bonjour devices, but I only tested with a handful of devices and found that some devices would not query MDNS for the resource records. -Brian From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Johnson, Neil M [neil-john...@uiowa.edu] Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:41 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: Apple Petition My concern is that certain fields appear to contain dynamic information like the software version (see srcvers=120.2) and other information (what does 35CF2488F02660B1 mean ?). The only way it seems to collect this information is to connect the device to local net, run Bonjour Browser or run dns-sd -Z command on a MAC and copy and paste results into your DNS configs. If certain data is dynamic then, you are out of luck. -Neil -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu From: Joel Coehoorn jcoeho...@york.edumailto:jcoeho...@york.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 7:22 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition If those entries work, and are all that is needed, then we're not far from full support. It seems like we could get a tool or set of scripts to automate creating/modifying the needed records. Sent from my iPad On Jul 10, 2012, at 7:11 PM, Johnson, Neil M neil-john...@uiowa.edumailto:neil-john...@uiowa.edu wrote: We looked into DNS-SD, but with entries like this (example taken from an earlier e-mail from Oscar Silva at the Univ. or Texas , and confirmed by our own testing): _airplay._tcp PTR utnet-appletv._airplay._tcp utnet-appletv._airplay._tcp SRV 0 0 7000 utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.eduhttp://utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.edu. ; Replace with unicast FQDN of target host utnet-appletv._airplay._tcp TXT deviceid=28:E7:CF:DB:6E:E0 features=0x39f7 model=AppleTV2,1 pw=1 srcvers=120.2 _raop._tcpPTR 28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcpmailto:28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcp 28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcpmailto:28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcp SRV 0 0 49152 utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.eduhttp://utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.edu. ; Replace with unicast FQDN of target host 28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcpmailto:28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcp TXT txtvers=1 ch=2 cn=0,1,2,3 da=true et=0,3 md=0,1,2 pw=true sv=false sr=44100 ss=16 tp=UDP vn=65537 vs=120.2 am=AppleTV2,1 sf=0x4 _appletv-v2._tcp PTR 35CF2488F02660B1._appletv-v2._tcp 35CF2488F02660B1._appletv-v2._tcp SRV 0 0 3689 utnet- appletv.bonjour.utexas.eduhttp://appletv.bonjour.utexas.edu. ; Replace with unicast FQDN of target host 35CF2488F02660B1._appletv-v2._tcp TXT txtvers=1 hG=-06f6-4f5d-0171-0bcc51d34d14 MniT=167845888 fs=2 Name=utnet-appletv PrVs=65538 DFID=2 EiTS=1 MiTPV=196611 _sleep-proxy._udp PTR 70-35-60-63\032utnet-appletv._sleep-proxy._udp 70-35-60-63\032utnet-appletv._sleep-proxy._udp SRV 0 0 55597 utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.eduhttp://utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.edu. ; Replace with unicast FQDN of target host 70-35-60-63\032utnet-appletv._sleep-proxy._udp TXT required for every Apple TV (and no direction from Apple on what entries/fields are
RE: Apple Petition- Mid-Week Sanity Check
What is the scope of the petition? What is the goal? Is it only to improve the Airplay feature in the enterprise? If so, the petition looks fine to me. If the goal is to encourage Apple to incorporate enterprise support in *all* of their products, then we should include more lacking enterprise features in other products in the petition. I don't want to muddy the waters with the message we are sending, but in my opinion - as soon as you get things like Airplay working you have another big problem and that is that you cannot pull off a seamless roam from any Apple device connected to a WPA2-Enterprise SSID. So if you are fine with telling those users to stay put while doing Airplay, or voice apps, etc. then no biggie, but if you want to support mobile real-time video/voice - these devices have to support a fast-roam using an Enterprise method. Since Windows XP, microsoft supports this - it is called opportunistic key caching. You can add the feature to Linux by editing the wpa_supplicant.conf file and adding proactive key caching. All of the WiFi phones (Cisco, Avaya, Polycom) support this. Not a single Mac or iOS device does. Some think 802.11r is the solution - I have my doubts that Apple will ever incorporate 802.11r, and if they did and you turn it on, then all of your other non-802.11r devices on that SSID will no longer fast-roam. ...May be something to consider. Curtis Larsen University of Utah Wireless Network Engineer Office 801-587-1313 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Lee H Badman [lhbad...@syr.edu]u Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 7:13 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition- Mid-Week Sanity Check Folks, Those interested seem to agree that we’d discuss specific pain points regarding “those other” Apple devices like AppleTv and any AirPlay/Bonjour-dependent gadgets until Friday, at which point we’d firm up the petition and find a place to host it. Then would come signatures, and ultimately presenting it to Apple, possibly via each of our Apple reps. Neil Johnson has started the companion Facebook group, and has drafted the early version of what everyone appears to want from Apple development in petition form at https://www.facebook.com/groups/enterpriseairplay with 72 members joining thus far. (Thanks, Neil) We have at least one CIO interested, and interested in sharing it with other CIOs via Educause if petition is done in a constructive, fact-based way. We also have a bit of media coverage coming soon on the process, with potentially more to follow. A lot of excellent technical discussion has been spawned during all of this, and as usual, the interaction has been great between list members. All of that being said, it is worth asking: · Is the group still feeling good about the direction this initiative is going in? · Does anyone have any problems with the wording and points in the doc so far? · Is everyone interested able to sign on behalf of their institution/organization? If not, can you get empowered or find someone who can sign? · Has anyone else approached senior IT management and found interest? Any other CIOs game at this point? · Any other mid-week thoughts, concerns, comments on the topic? Regards- Lee Badman ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition
So, even if you setup static DNS-SD records, the Airplay receiver (Apple TV) and Airplay transmitter (iPad, iPhone, or Mac running Mountain Lion) have to be in the same subnet. That is the reason for the 1st request in the petition. -Neil -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu On 7/11/12 8:47 AM, Chris Murphy ch...@mit.edu wrote: Honestly, if I could just enter a FQDN for an Apple TV or a printer I'd be ecstatic. -Chris On Jul 11, 2012, at 9:43 AM, Danner, Mearl wrote: But it's still link-local and requires management of an enterprise-wide flat VLAN architecture. No IP addresses I can see. Just the hardware address. Don't we want something IP based similar to dynamic DNS? Microsoft provided WINS and then Active Directory to allow their OSes to move from local subnet broadcast based discovery. Novell used SLP when they moved from IPX to IP. Don't we want Apple to provide us with something similar? Mearl -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:03 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition I might be misunderstanding something; if so please correct me. When I setup a Linux MDNS server the bonjour devices all auto registered with the DNS server so there were no entries I had to manually create. I used a subdomain to keep them from cluttering up the our root domain for all bonjour devices, but I only tested with a handful of devices and found that some devices would not query MDNS for the resource records. -Brian From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Johnson, Neil M [neil-john...@uiowa.edu] Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:41 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: Apple Petition My concern is that certain fields appear to contain dynamic information like the software version (see srcvers=120.2) and other information (what does 35CF2488F02660B1 mean ?). The only way it seems to collect this information is to connect the device to local net, run Bonjour Browser or run dns-sd -Z command on a MAC and copy and paste results into your DNS configs. If certain data is dynamic then, you are out of luck. -Neil -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu From: Joel Coehoorn jcoeho...@york.edumailto:jcoeho...@york.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE .EDU Date: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 7:22 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE .EDU WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE .EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition If those entries work, and are all that is needed, then we're not far from full support. It seems like we could get a tool or set of scripts to automate creating/modifying the needed records. Sent from my iPad On Jul 10, 2012, at 7:11 PM, Johnson, Neil M neil-john...@uiowa.edumailto:neil-john...@uiowa.edu wrote: We looked into DNS-SD, but with entries like this (example taken from an earlier e-mail from Oscar Silva at the Univ. or Texas , and confirmed by our own testing): _airplay._tcp PTR utnet-appletv._airplay._tcp utnet-appletv._airplay._tcp SRV 0 0 7000 utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.eduhttp://utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.edu . ; Replace with unicast FQDN of target host utnet-appletv._airplay._tcp TXT deviceid=28:E7:CF:DB:6E:E0 features=0x39f7 model=AppleTV2,1 pw=1 srcvers=120.2 _raop._tcpPTR 28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcpmailto:28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._ raop._tcp 28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcpmailto:28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._ raop._tcp SRV 0 0 49152 utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.eduhttp://utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.edu . ; Replace with unicast FQDN of target host 28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcpmailto:28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._ raop._tcp TXT txtvers=1 ch=2 cn=0,1,2,3 da=true et=0,3 md=0,1,2 pw=true sv=false sr=44100 ss=16 tp=UDP vn=65537 vs=120.2 am=AppleTV2,1 sf=0x4 _appletv-v2._tcp PTR 35CF2488F02660B1._appletv-v2._tcp 35CF2488F02660B1._appletv-v2._tcp SRV 0 0 3689 utnet- appletv.bonjour.utexas.eduhttp://appletv.bonjour.utexas.edu. ; Replace with unicast FQDN of target host 35CF2488F02660B1._appletv-v2._tcp TXT txtvers=1 hG=-06f6-4f5d-0171-0bcc51d34d14 MniT=167845888 fs=2 Name=utnet-appletv PrVs=65538 DFID=2 EiTS=1 MiTPV=196611 _sleep-proxy._udp PTR
RE: Apple Petition
From what I read the MDNS registration is link local, but once registered than other Bonjour clients can query the MDNS records and connect across VLANs. The issue I ran into is that most Bonjour clients I tested could not connect across VLANs. I thought the original post was more of a complaint on creating the resource records manually, sorry. -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Danner, Mearl Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:44 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: Apple Petition But it's still link-local and requires management of an enterprise-wide flat VLAN architecture. No IP addresses I can see. Just the hardware address. Don't we want something IP based similar to dynamic DNS? Microsoft provided WINS and then Active Directory to allow their OSes to move from local subnet broadcast based discovery. Novell used SLP when they moved from IPX to IP. Don't we want Apple to provide us with something similar? Mearl -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:03 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition I might be misunderstanding something; if so please correct me. When I setup a Linux MDNS server the bonjour devices all auto registered with the DNS server so there were no entries I had to manually create. I used a subdomain to keep them from cluttering up the our root domain for all bonjour devices, but I only tested with a handful of devices and found that some devices would not query MDNS for the resource records. -Brian From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Johnson, Neil M [neil-john...@uiowa.edu] Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:41 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: Apple Petition My concern is that certain fields appear to contain dynamic information like the software version (see srcvers=120.2) and other information (what does 35CF2488F02660B1 mean ?). The only way it seems to collect this information is to connect the device to local net, run Bonjour Browser or run dns-sd -Z command on a MAC and copy and paste results into your DNS configs. If certain data is dynamic then, you are out of luck. -Neil -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu From: Joel Coehoorn jcoeho...@york.edumailto:jcoeho...@york.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 7:22 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition If those entries work, and are all that is needed, then we're not far from full support. It seems like we could get a tool or set of scripts to automate creating/modifying the needed records. Sent from my iPad On Jul 10, 2012, at 7:11 PM, Johnson, Neil M neil-john...@uiowa.edumailto:neil-john...@uiowa.edu wrote: We looked into DNS-SD, but with entries like this (example taken from an earlier e-mail from Oscar Silva at the Univ. or Texas , and confirmed by our own testing): _airplay._tcp PTR utnet-appletv._airplay._tcp utnet-appletv._airplay._tcp SRV 0 0 7000 utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.eduhttp://utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.edu. ; Replace with unicast FQDN of target host utnet-appletv._airplay._tcp TXT deviceid=28:E7:CF:DB:6E:E0 features=0x39f7 model=AppleTV2,1 pw=1 srcvers=120.2 _raop._tcpPTR 28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcpmailto:28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcp 28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcpmailto:28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcp SRV 0 0 49152 utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.eduhttp://utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.edu. ; Replace with unicast FQDN of target host 28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcpmailto:28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcp TXT txtvers=1 ch=2 cn=0,1,2,3 da=true et=0,3 md=0,1,2 pw=true sv=false sr=44100 ss=16 tp=UDP vn=65537 vs=120.2 am=AppleTV2,1 sf=0x4 _appletv-v2._tcp PTR 35CF2488F02660B1._appletv-v2._tcp 35CF2488F02660B1._appletv-v2._tcp SRV 0 0 3689 utnet- appletv.bonjour.utexas.eduhttp://appletv.bonjour.utexas.edu. ; Replace with unicast FQDN of target host 35CF2488F02660B1._appletv-v2._tcp TXT txtvers=1 hG=-06f6-4f5d-0171-0bcc51d34d14 MniT=167845888 fs=2 Name=utnet-appletv PrVs=65538 DFID=2 EiTS=1 MiTPV=196611 _sleep-proxy._udp PTR
RE: Apple Petition
Yep -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Chris Murphy Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:48 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: Apple Petition Honestly, if I could just enter a FQDN for an Apple TV or a printer I'd be ecstatic. -Chris On Jul 11, 2012, at 9:43 AM, Danner, Mearl wrote: But it's still link-local and requires management of an enterprise-wide flat VLAN architecture. No IP addresses I can see. Just the hardware address. Don't we want something IP based similar to dynamic DNS? Microsoft provided WINS and then Active Directory to allow their OSes to move from local subnet broadcast based discovery. Novell used SLP when they moved from IPX to IP. Don't we want Apple to provide us with something similar? Mearl -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:03 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition I might be misunderstanding something; if so please correct me. When I setup a Linux MDNS server the bonjour devices all auto registered with the DNS server so there were no entries I had to manually create. I used a subdomain to keep them from cluttering up the our root domain for all bonjour devices, but I only tested with a handful of devices and found that some devices would not query MDNS for the resource records. -Brian From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Johnson, Neil M [neil-john...@uiowa.edu] Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:41 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: Apple Petition My concern is that certain fields appear to contain dynamic information like the software version (see srcvers=120.2) and other information (what does 35CF2488F02660B1 mean ?). The only way it seems to collect this information is to connect the device to local net, run Bonjour Browser or run dns-sd -Z command on a MAC and copy and paste results into your DNS configs. If certain data is dynamic then, you are out of luck. -Neil -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu From: Joel Coehoorn jcoeho...@york.edumailto:jcoeho...@york.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 7:22 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition If those entries work, and are all that is needed, then we're not far from full support. It seems like we could get a tool or set of scripts to automate creating/modifying the needed records. Sent from my iPad On Jul 10, 2012, at 7:11 PM, Johnson, Neil M neil-john...@uiowa.edumailto:neil-john...@uiowa.edu wrote: We looked into DNS-SD, but with entries like this (example taken from an earlier e-mail from Oscar Silva at the Univ. or Texas , and confirmed by our own testing): _airplay._tcp PTR utnet-appletv._airplay._tcp utnet-appletv._airplay._tcp SRV 0 0 7000 utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.eduhttp://utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.edu. ; Replace with unicast FQDN of target host utnet-appletv._airplay._tcp TXT deviceid=28:E7:CF:DB:6E:E0 features=0x39f7 model=AppleTV2,1 pw=1 srcvers=120.2 _raop._tcpPTR 28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcpmailto:28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcp 28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcpmailto:28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcp SRV 0 0 49152 utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.eduhttp://utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.edu. ; Replace with unicast FQDN of target host 28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcpmailto:28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcp TXT txtvers=1 ch=2 cn=0,1,2,3 da=true et=0,3 md=0,1,2 pw=true sv=false sr=44100 ss=16 tp=UDP vn=65537 vs=120.2 am=AppleTV2,1 sf=0x4 _appletv-v2._tcp PTR 35CF2488F02660B1._appletv-v2._tcp 35CF2488F02660B1._appletv-v2._tcp SRV 0 0 3689 utnet- appletv.bonjour.utexas.eduhttp://appletv.bonjour.utexas.edu. ; Replace with unicast FQDN of target host 35CF2488F02660B1._appletv-v2._tcp TXT txtvers=1 hG=-06f6-4f5d-0171-0bcc51d34d14 MniT=167845888 fs=2 Name=utnet-appletv PrVs=65538 DFID=2 EiTS=1 MiTPV=196611 _sleep-proxy._udp PTR 70-35-60-63\032utnet-appletv._sleep-proxy._udp 70-35-60-63\032utnet-appletv._sleep-proxy._udp SRV 0 0 55597
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition- Mid-Week Sanity Check
It's just my opinion, but while asking Apple to implement OKC sounds like worthwhile idea, I'd like to keep the focus on Bonjour and Airplay for this petition. -Neil -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu From: Curtis K. Larsen (UIT-Network) curtis.k.lar...@utah.edumailto:curtis.k.lar...@utah.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:05 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition- Mid-Week Sanity Check What is the scope of the petition? What is the goal? Is it only to improve the Airplay feature in the enterprise? If so, the petition looks fine to me. If the goal is to encourage Apple to incorporate enterprise support in *all* of their products, then we should include more lacking enterprise features in other products in the petition. I don't want to muddy the waters with the message we are sending, but in my opinion - as soon as you get things like Airplay working you have another big problem and that is that you cannot pull off a seamless roam from any Apple device connected to a WPA2-Enterprise SSID. So if you are fine with telling those users to stay put while doing Airplay, or voice apps, etc. then no biggie, but if you want to support mobile real-time video/voice - these devices have to support a fast-roam using an Enterprise method. Since Windows XP, microsoft supports this - it is called opportunistic key caching. You can add the feature to Linux by editing the wpa_supplicant.conf file and adding proactive key caching. All of the WiFi phones (Cisco, Avaya, Polycom) support this. Not a single Mac or iOS device does. Some think 802.11r is the solution - I have my doubts that Apple will ever incorporate 802.11r, and if they did and you turn it on, then all of your other non-802.11r devices on that SSID will no longer fast-roam. ...May be something to consider. Curtis Larsen University of Utah Wireless Network Engineer Office 801-587-1313 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Lee H Badman [lhbad...@syr.edumailto:lhbad...@syr.edu]u Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 7:13 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition- Mid-Week Sanity Check Folks, Those interested seem to agree that we’d discuss specific pain points regarding “those other” Apple devices like AppleTv and any AirPlay/Bonjour-dependent gadgets until Friday, at which point we’d firm up the petition and find a place to host it. Then would come signatures, and ultimately presenting it to Apple, possibly via each of our Apple reps. Neil Johnson has started the companion Facebook group, and has drafted the early version of what everyone appears to want from Apple development in petition form at https://www.facebook.com/groups/enterpriseairplay with 72 members joining thus far. (Thanks, Neil) We have at least one CIO interested, and interested in sharing it with other CIOs via Educause if petition is done in a constructive, fact-based way. We also have a bit of media coverage coming soon on the process, with potentially more to follow. A lot of excellent technical discussion has been spawned during all of this, and as usual, the interaction has been great between list members. All of that being said, it is worth asking: · Is the group still feeling good about the direction this initiative is going in? · Does anyone have any problems with the wording and points in the doc so far? · Is everyone interested able to sign on behalf of their institution/organization? If not, can you get empowered or find someone who can sign? · Has anyone else approached senior IT management and found interest? Any other CIOs game at this point? · Any other mid-week thoughts, concerns, comments on the topic? Regards- Lee Badman ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: Apple Petition- Mid-Week Sanity Check
I agree. I think if it get too broad it is just going to look like a well-organized rant. From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Johnson, Neil M Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:25 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: Apple Petition- Mid-Week Sanity Check It's just my opinion, but while asking Apple to implement OKC sounds like worthwhile idea, I'd like to keep the focus on Bonjour and Airplay for this petition. -Neil -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edumailto:neil-john...@uiowa.edu From: Curtis K. Larsen (UIT-Network) curtis.k.lar...@utah.edumailto:curtis.k.lar...@utah.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:05 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition- Mid-Week Sanity Check What is the scope of the petition? What is the goal? Is it only to improve the Airplay feature in the enterprise? If so, the petition looks fine to me. If the goal is to encourage Apple to incorporate enterprise support in *all* of their products, then we should include more lacking enterprise features in other products in the petition. I don't want to muddy the waters with the message we are sending, but in my opinion - as soon as you get things like Airplay working you have another big problem and that is that you cannot pull off a seamless roam from any Apple device connected to a WPA2-Enterprise SSID. So if you are fine with telling those users to stay put while doing Airplay, or voice apps, etc. then no biggie, but if you want to support mobile real-time video/voice - these devices have to support a fast-roam using an Enterprise method. Since Windows XP, microsoft supports this - it is called opportunistic key caching. You can add the feature to Linux by editing the wpa_supplicant.conf file and adding proactive key caching. All of the WiFi phones (Cisco, Avaya, Polycom) support this. Not a single Mac or iOS device does. Some think 802.11r is the solution - I have my doubts that Apple will ever incorporate 802.11r, and if they did and you turn it on, then all of your other non-802.11r devices on that SSID will no longer fast-roam. ...May be something to consider. Curtis Larsen University of Utah Wireless Network Engineer Office 801-587-1313 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] on behalf of Lee H Badman [lhbad...@syr.edumailto:lhbad...@syr.edu]u Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 7:13 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition- Mid-Week Sanity Check Folks, Those interested seem to agree that we'd discuss specific pain points regarding those other Apple devices like AppleTv and any AirPlay/Bonjour-dependent gadgets until Friday, at which point we'd firm up the petition and find a place to host it. Then would come signatures, and ultimately presenting it to Apple, possibly via each of our Apple reps. Neil Johnson has started the companion Facebook group, and has drafted the early version of what everyone appears to want from Apple development in petition form at https://www.facebook.com/groups/enterpriseairplay with 72 members joining thus far. (Thanks, Neil) We have at least one CIO interested, and interested in sharing it with other CIOs via Educause if petition is done in a constructive, fact-based way. We also have a bit of media coverage coming soon on the process, with potentially more to follow. A lot of excellent technical discussion has been spawned during all of this, and as usual, the interaction has been great between list members. All of that being said, it is worth asking: * Is the group still feeling good about the direction this initiative is going in? * Does anyone have any problems with the wording and points in the doc so far? * Is everyone interested able to sign on behalf of their institution/organization? If not, can you get empowered or find someone who can sign? * Has anyone else approached senior IT management and found interest? Any other CIOs game at this point? * Any other mid-week thoughts, concerns, comments on the topic? Regards- Lee Badman ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition
I agree. The ability to enter a FQDN or ip would be a huge (and sufficient) step forward. I can imagine all sorts of more complicated discovery methods (ideally where some central server gives one access to specific AppleTVs based on location and credentials) but that doesn't seem like a request that would get very far with apple. I think asking for a way to have the client specify by IP or host name is a very modest request, and probably the only reason apple hasn't done it is because they don't think their customers want that. A petition would be a way to show them that a large number of their customers do want that. Ethan On 07/11/2012 08:47 AM, Chris Murphy wrote: Honestly, if I could just enter a FQDN for an Apple TV or a printer I'd be ecstatic. -Chris On Jul 11, 2012, at 9:43 AM, Danner, Mearl wrote: But it's still link-local and requires management of an enterprise-wide flat VLAN architecture. No IP addresses I can see. Just the hardware address. Don't we want something IP based similar to dynamic DNS? Microsoft provided WINS and then Active Directory to allow their OSes to move from local subnet broadcast based discovery. Novell used SLP when they moved from IPX to IP. Don't we want Apple to provide us with something similar? Mearl -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:03 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition I might be misunderstanding something; if so please correct me. When I setup a Linux MDNS server the bonjour devices all auto registered with the DNS server so there were no entries I had to manually create. I used a subdomain to keep them from cluttering up the our root domain for all bonjour devices, but I only tested with a handful of devices and found that some devices would not query MDNS for the resource records. -Brian From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Johnson, Neil M [neil-john...@uiowa.edu] Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:41 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: Apple Petition My concern is that certain fields appear to contain dynamic information like the software version (see srcvers=120.2) and other information (what does 35CF2488F02660B1 mean ?). The only way it seems to collect this information is to connect the device to local net, run Bonjour Browser or run dns-sd -Z command on a MAC and copy and paste results into your DNS configs. If certain data is dynamic then, you are out of luck. -Neil -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu From: Joel Coehoorn jcoeho...@york.edumailto:jcoeho...@york.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 7:22 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition If those entries work, and are all that is needed, then we're not far from full support. It seems like we could get a tool or set of scripts to automate creating/modifying the needed records. Sent from my iPad On Jul 10, 2012, at 7:11 PM, Johnson, Neil M neil-john...@uiowa.edumailto:neil-john...@uiowa.edu wrote: We looked into DNS-SD, but with entries like this (example taken from an earlier e-mail from Oscar Silva at the Univ. or Texas , and confirmed by our own testing): _airplay._tcp PTR utnet-appletv._airplay._tcp utnet-appletv._airplay._tcp SRV 0 0 7000 utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.eduhttp://utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.edu. ; Replace with unicast FQDN of target host utnet-appletv._airplay._tcp TXT deviceid=28:E7:CF:DB:6E:E0 features=0x39f7 model=AppleTV2,1 pw=1 srcvers=120.2 _raop._tcpPTR 28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcpmailto:28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcp 28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcpmailto:28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcp SRV 0 0 49152 utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.eduhttp://utnet-appletv.bonjour.utexas.edu. ; Replace with unicast FQDN of target host 28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcpmailto:28E7CFDB6EE0@utnet-appletv._raop._tcp TXT txtvers=1 ch=2 cn=0,1,2,3 da=true et=0,3 md=0,1,2 pw=true sv=false sr=44100 ss=16 tp=UDP vn=65537 vs=120.2 am=AppleTV2,1 sf=0x4 _appletv-v2._tcp PTR 35CF2488F02660B1._appletv-v2._tcp 35CF2488F02660B1._appletv-v2._tcp SRV 0 0 3689 utnet- appletv.bonjour.utexas.eduhttp://appletv.bonjour.utexas.edu. ; Replace with unicast FQDN of target host
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
From my brief play with one the sleep/wake is an advertisement, and it was easier for me to power cycle it. Thank you, Lee Weers Central College IT Services Assistant Director for Network Services 641-628-7675 Vcard https://www.mcpvirtualbusinesscard.com/VBCServer/LeeWeers/interactivecard Vprofile https://www.mcpvirtualbusinesscard.com/VBCServer/LeeWeers/profile From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Garry Peirce Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 4:22 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. I apologize for duplicate posting, but it was suggested I rename the subject of my note below so that it fall under this related subject thread. Re: Cisco vlan select method – I note to be discovered by clients, “This means the Apple TV should be forced to announce itself by being put to sleep, and then woken up.”Is this one time occurrence or would a user have to have mgt access to the AppleTV in order to put it to sleep/wake up to be able to discover it? If it’s the advertisement needs this frequent kick, I unfortunately suspect it might be easier to simply power-cycle it. Also, Eric, do you know if the Avahi reflector allows for any level of Bonjour service level filtering? = I’m in support of the collective request to help enable further operational flexibility, although also not sure Apple will feel enough pressure to assist. To the first item: ‘That Apple establish a way for Apple TV's (and other Bonjour/Airplay enabled devices) be accessible across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 sub-nets.” Isn’t this item solved to a degree by wide area DNS-SD? If not, I assume this is left open to solve by either making it use a routable mcast addr or by creating some non-standard solution. Controls will be needed to make sense of all the advertised services and possibly for security/privacy reasons. I would think navigating a large Bonjour enabled subnet for a production service must be an ugly exercise - nevermind if enabled to pass L2 boundaries. Who remembers those IPX service filtering ACLs? Request #2 might soon follow to network vendors to be able to support Bonjour service filtering. For production services, wide area DNS-SD seems a better tool to me, as opposed to using the wild west of zeroconf end device advertisements or some special hardware solution. We’ve trialed it (static entries) for printing and it seems to work well. This leverages our existing DNS infrastructure, allows for control of the advertised entries, and a uniform naming convention making it easier to identify the service. One could also opt to block 224.0.0.251 altogether, if there is concern about unnecessary device traffic. So in tandem to supporting this request, I’d also be interested in anyone’s recap of their wide area DNS-SD (WAB) environment, the services being advertised , how it is scaling, and any major stumbling blocks. From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]mailto:[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 4:00 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition Please consider this- as we get to the point where we have an agreed on document, say by this Friday, and we find an online petition site to use where individuals can sign on in whatever form that takes before we close the signing window and present it to Apple- are each one of us able to do so on behalf of our institutions or organizations? If you need to seek permission, now is the time. If a CIO or Director is the only one allowed to make such public-facing declarations on behalf of your school/or org, it would be good to start working the notion. Ideally, no one would overstep their position by jumping on this worthy endeavor. Lee H. Badman Wireless Architect/Network Engineer Information Technology and Services Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315 443-3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]mailto:[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Andy Voelker Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 12:44 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition That confuses me as well. It is obviously built in to many other iOS devices (iPod Touch, iPad) and has been for some time. Why the change? I suspect it just due to the GUI difference. If so, that’s easily fixable. -- Andy Voelker Manager of Student Computing in the Technology Commons WCU Staff Senator Western Carolina University Check the status of your IT requests at any time at http://help.wcu.edu/ ! From: The EDUCAUSE
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
Hey guys. I've found more interesting information. This page: http://www.grouplogic.com/Knowledge/PDFUpload/Info/WanBonjour_1.pdf Has some pretty detailed information on creating Unicast DNS Service Discovery for Bonjour on Windows DNS Servers, as well as how to use a MAC to function as a *Basic* Bonjour Proxy (same as Avahi and Aerohive) it's not pretty, and does not have service filtering, but it works. Also, I was on a TAC call with a very knowledgeable TAC engineer. We came up with another corner case that has not been discussed: Cisco H-REAP (Now called Flexconnect) support local switching of the data vlan. (I'm sure other vendors do this as well) Any traffic in that VLAN is replayed on the wireless and vice versa. So if you have have an H-REAP doing local switching, and an Apple TV connected to the same VLAN, theoretically it will pass the multicast traffic WITHOUT enabling Mulitcast on the Central controller. I have not tested this, so take it with a grain of salt. Mike On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 4:57 PM, Eric T. Barnett ebarn...@astate.eduwrote: I believe that the data streams are indeed unicast, but if I understand it right, Bonjour uses multicast for the initial setup and discovery. ** ** --Eric ** ** *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Chris Murphy *Sent:* Tuesday, July 10, 2012 3:28 PM *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. ** ** Eric, ** ** I haven't sniffed the traffic, but I don't see anything that indicates the actual data streams are multicast, and I don't think I'd expect it to be given it's point-to-point. Then again, I'd expect the whole system to be implemented in a rather more sane way, so what do I know... ** ** -Chris ** ** On Jul 10, 2012, at 4:04 PM, Eric T. Barnett wrote: Hi folks, long time lurker here. There’s an update to the deployment guide. I’ve included it. It adds the concept of using an open-source Avahi multicast reflector. It works pretty well once you get it hammered out. It is weird though. The iPhones don’t seem to see the AppleTV near as well as the iPads. However, Mike, either with Multicast VLAN or the reflector, you still have to enable multicast, because if the controller can’t multicast to the AP’s, the multicast data streams for the iStuffs don’t work either. Regards, Eric Barnett Senior Network Engineer/Wireless Administrator Information and Technology Services Arkansas State University (870) 680-4243 http://wireless.astate.edu *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Jeffrey Sessler *Sent:* Monday, July 09, 2012 4:13 PM *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. I posted this before, but here is the Cisco Apple Bonjour Deployment Guide. It contains a lot of great information as well as a method to allow use of AppleTV access across multiple VLANs using a single Multicast VLAN (part of VLAN select). Jeff On Tuesday, July 03, 2012 at 6:06 AM, in message CANtPpk420_nAraEeOqnC=d6ckj2ujkk+=t5_hsu0q4_jxrc...@mail.gmail.com, Mike King m...@mpking.com wrote: So I have Cisco Wireless, and I've just been asked to make Airplay work in a conference room. We do not have multicast enable (anywhere). Asking for details, I've been told it's only this one conference room. (I someone believe this, as it the only one that has a projector that get's any use) Suggestions for this as a one off? I have idea's one what to do for a campus wide deployment, but that will take me significantly longer to deploy, and my boss is asking me to have this done this week. Right now, we have a single WPA2/enterprise SSID, and the apple TV will most likely be wired (not required) Mike ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. cuwn-apple-bonjour-dg-00.pdf ** ** === Chris Murphy Network Engineer MIT Information Services Technology Room W92-191 77 Massachusetts Avenue Cambridge, MA 02139 ch...@mit.edu ** ** ** Participation and subscription
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors.
That reflector might not be as amazing as I thought. It’s strange, I have been able to mirror my iPad forever, but using the YouTube app, the AppleTV drops me in some random 30 second incremented time (i.e. happened once at 30 seconds, once at 1 minute, once at 2 minutes). Once I turned back on the Multicast VLAN on the controller, it is solid as a rock. As far as I know, Avahi doesn’t have any filtering, but I’ve barely scratched the surface with it. With the reflector on and the Multicast VLAN turned on, my iPad discovered my AppleTV this morning after a slight delay. I didn’t have to touch the AppleTV. I have it hardwired and the sleep settings off, however. --Eric From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Garry Peirce Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 4:22 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] You knew it was coming...Airplay/Apple TV support for instructors. I apologize for duplicate posting, but it was suggested I rename the subject of my note below so that it fall under this related subject thread. Re: Cisco vlan select method – I note to be discovered by clients, “This means the Apple TV should be forced to announce itself by being put to sleep, and then woken up.”Is this one time occurrence or would a user have to have mgt access to the AppleTV in order to put it to sleep/wake up to be able to discover it? If it’s the advertisement needs this frequent kick, I unfortunately suspect it might be easier to simply power-cycle it. Also, Eric, do you know if the Avahi reflector allows for any level of Bonjour service level filtering? = I’m in support of the collective request to help enable further operational flexibility, although also not sure Apple will feel enough pressure to assist. To the first item: ‘That Apple establish a way for Apple TV's (and other Bonjour/Airplay enabled devices) be accessible across multiple IPv4 and IPv6 sub-nets.” Isn’t this item solved to a degree by wide area DNS-SD? If not, I assume this is left open to solve by either making it use a routable mcast addr or by creating some non-standard solution. Controls will be needed to make sense of all the advertised services and possibly for security/privacy reasons. I would think navigating a large Bonjour enabled subnet for a production service must be an ugly exercise - nevermind if enabled to pass L2 boundaries. Who remembers those IPX service filtering ACLs? Request #2 might soon follow to network vendors to be able to support Bonjour service filtering. For production services, wide area DNS-SD seems a better tool to me, as opposed to using the wild west of zeroconf end device advertisements or some special hardware solution. We’ve trialed it (static entries) for printing and it seems to work well. This leverages our existing DNS infrastructure, allows for control of the advertised entries, and a uniform naming convention making it easier to identify the service. One could also opt to block 224.0.0.251 altogether, if there is concern about unnecessary device traffic. So in tandem to supporting this request, I’d also be interested in anyone’s recap of their wide area DNS-SD (WAB) environment, the services being advertised , how it is scaling, and any major stumbling blocks. From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]mailto:[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 4:00 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition Please consider this- as we get to the point where we have an agreed on document, say by this Friday, and we find an online petition site to use where individuals can sign on in whatever form that takes before we close the signing window and present it to Apple- are each one of us able to do so on behalf of our institutions or organizations? If you need to seek permission, now is the time. If a CIO or Director is the only one allowed to make such public-facing declarations on behalf of your school/or org, it would be good to start working the notion. Ideally, no one would overstep their position by jumping on this worthy endeavor. Lee H. Badman Wireless Architect/Network Engineer Information Technology and Services Adjunct Instructor, iSchool Syracuse University 315 443-3003 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]mailto:[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Andy Voelker Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 12:44 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition That confuses me as well. It is obviously built in to many other iOS devices (iPod Touch, iPad) and has been for
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition
Like it or not, Bonjour exists and users desire the service discovery promoted and which they have in their home/local subnet as they move within the enterprise. All enterprise solutions seem kludgey to different degrees, but we're trying to make a non-routed protocol act like one. A current solution might therefore involve using more than one method. Native Bonjour: uses link-local mDNS , not going to work across subnets without help. Direct FQDN use: It may be a nice option to have but I don't think it scales well as it would increase endUser support. The service discovery method is to call the NOC to find out the FQDN. DNS-SD: static, manageable service entries across subnets utilizing standard DNS procedures. Dynamic ad-hoc entries trickier. Fail for AppleTV - cannot be used for AppleTV/Airplay by Apple design (see Oscar@UTexas msg 12/20/11). Cisco: McastVlan feature forwards the advertisement through from remote subnet to the clients WLANs, with VlanSelect enabling Airplay 'across' subnets (bridge with one-way m/bcast? Not 100% sure what's going on here). Be wary of sleeping Bonjour devices. As documented, VlanSelect does not solve all uses, ex. where bidirectional (Bonjour) flow would be required (messaging/iTunes sharing). Their Bonjour solution for these services would make use of an Avahi gateway. Nevermind adding another appliance to the mix, without an ability to granularly filter services it seems like a looming problem to me. Aruba/Others: Perhaps those using other infrastructures can add their vendor's solutions. If Bonjour advertisements are bridged/reflected or someday using routed mcast, I'd think we'll need filtering controls to limit confusion and perhaps for security privacy concerns. The same issue as the Avahi gateway above. As I finish this, I see we just got a request from a campus dept to help with Airplay/wireless for their AppleTV device they just installed. ;-) Perhaps if Apple cannot assist us in making this any more manageable within an enterprise, we'll be driven to find other solutions and say BonVoyage. -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Chris Murphy Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:48 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition Honestly, if I could just enter a FQDN for an Apple TV or a printer I'd be ecstatic. -Chris On Jul 11, 2012, at 9:43 AM, Danner, Mearl wrote: But it's still link-local and requires management of an enterprise-wide flat VLAN architecture. No IP addresses I can see. Just the hardware address. Don't we want something IP based similar to dynamic DNS? Microsoft provided WINS and then Active Directory to allow their OSes to move from local subnet broadcast based discovery. Novell used SLP when they moved from IPX to IP. Don't we want Apple to provide us with something similar? Mearl -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Kellogg, Brian D. Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:03 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition I might be misunderstanding something; if so please correct me. When I setup a Linux MDNS server the bonjour devices all auto registered with the DNS server so there were no entries I had to manually create. I used a subdomain to keep them from cluttering up the our root domain for all bonjour devices, but I only tested with a handful of devices and found that some devices would not query MDNS for the resource records. -Brian From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Johnson, Neil M [neil-john...@uiowa.edu] Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:41 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: Apple Petition My concern is that certain fields appear to contain dynamic information like the software version (see srcvers=120.2) and other information (what does 35CF2488F02660B1 mean ?). The only way it seems to collect this information is to connect the device to local net, run Bonjour Browser or run dns-sd -Z command on a MAC and copy and paste results into your DNS configs. If certain data is dynamic then, you are out of luck. -Neil -- Neil Johnson Network Engineer The University of Iowa Phone: 319 384-0938 Fax: 319 335-2951 Mobile: 319 540-2081 E-Mail: neil-john...@uiowa.edu From: Joel Coehoorn jcoeho...@york.edumailto:jcoeho...@york.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS- l...@listserv.educause.edu Date: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 7:22 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition- Mid-Week Sanity Check
So for those of us without Facebook, no way of signing it? From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 8:14 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition- Mid-Week Sanity Check Folks, Those interested seem to agree that we'd discuss specific pain points regarding those other Apple devices like AppleTv and any AirPlay/Bonjour-dependent gadgets until Friday, at which point we'd firm up the petition and find a place to host it. Then would come signatures, and ultimately presenting it to Apple, possibly via each of our Apple reps. Neil Johnson has started the companion Facebook group, and has drafted the early version of what everyone appears to want from Apple development in petition form at https://www.facebook.com/groups/enterpriseairplay with 72 members joining thus far. (Thanks, Neil) We have at least one CIO interested, and interested in sharing it with other CIOs via Educause if petition is done in a constructive, fact-based way. We also have a bit of media coverage coming soon on the process, with potentially more to follow. A lot of excellent technical discussion has been spawned during all of this, and as usual, the interaction has been great between list members. All of that being said, it is worth asking: . Is the group still feeling good about the direction this initiative is going in? . Does anyone have any problems with the wording and points in the doc so far? . Is everyone interested able to sign on behalf of their institution/organization? If not, can you get empowered or find someone who can sign? . Has anyone else approached senior IT management and found interest? Any other CIOs game at this point? . Any other mid-week thoughts, concerns, comments on the topic? Regards- Lee Badman ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition
On 11/07/12 22:05, Johnson, Neil M wrote: So, even if you setup static DNS-SD records, the Airplay receiver (Apple TV) and Airplay transmitter (iPad, iPhone, or Mac running Mountain Lion) have to be in the same subnet. That is the reason for the 1st request in the petition. Aerohive's Bonjour gateway feature claims to have Airplay working across subnets. The SRV record does have a hostname, so presumably it uses that. Even so, creating them manually is a pain, we need some sort of tooling to help. Ideally the Apple TVs would register themselves in wide-area DNS-SD domains, but I don't know how you control who can do that, or if they can. -- James Andrewartha Network Projects Engineer Christ Church Grammar School Claremont, Western Australia Ph. (08) 9442 1757 Mob. 0424 160 877 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition- Mid-Week Sanity Check
Hearing that some do not use FB that wish to sign, perhaps moving it to a site like http://www.change.org/ http://www.change.org is a possibility, or perhaps a page could be hosted on the Educause website itself? The petition's main statement reads: We the undersigned academic and research institutions request that Apple provide support for Bonjour/Airplay technology in enterprise networks. Might I suggest a possible refinement to: We the undersigned academic and research institutions request that Apple collaborate with us to improve Bonjour/Airplay technologies in enterprise networks. For me, if DNS-SD worked for Airplay (as it does for printing) , my current hurdle would largely be solved. That would also require the AppleTV concession made to content-providers relaxed or removed. Perhaps they could make an alternative AppleTV image that allows DNS-SD to work, but removes the content-provider features (?). If one needs both the content services and Airplay across subnets, that seems the immediate problem we'd like Apple to help solve in lieu of other proprietary solutions. From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jesse Rink Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 7:34 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition- Mid-Week Sanity Check So for those of us without Facebook, no way of signing it? From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 8:14 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Apple Petition- Mid-Week Sanity Check Folks, Those interested seem to agree that we'd discuss specific pain points regarding those other Apple devices like AppleTv and any AirPlay/Bonjour-dependent gadgets until Friday, at which point we'd firm up the petition and find a place to host it. Then would come signatures, and ultimately presenting it to Apple, possibly via each of our Apple reps. Neil Johnson has started the companion Facebook group, and has drafted the early version of what everyone appears to want from Apple development in petition form at https://www.facebook.com/groups/enterpriseairplay with 72 members joining thus far. (Thanks, Neil) We have at least one CIO interested, and interested in sharing it with other CIOs via Educause if petition is done in a constructive, fact-based way. We also have a bit of media coverage coming soon on the process, with potentially more to follow. A lot of excellent technical discussion has been spawned during all of this, and as usual, the interaction has been great between list members. All of that being said, it is worth asking: . Is the group still feeling good about the direction this initiative is going in? . Does anyone have any problems with the wording and points in the doc so far? . Is everyone interested able to sign on behalf of their institution/organization? If not, can you get empowered or find someone who can sign? . Has anyone else approached senior IT management and found interest? Any other CIOs game at this point? . Any other mid-week thoughts, concerns, comments on the topic? Regards- Lee Badman ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
