Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

[Samuel Clements]

Timely blog post on this subject over at:
https://robrobstation.com/2016/06/22/setting-minimum-data-rates-read-this-first/
  -Sam

On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 11:49 PM, Trenton Hurt <trenth...@gmail.com> wrote:

> It's 2.4 b/g/n for actually network connectivity but it doesn't require
> the legacy data rates to connect.   This is the wifi chipset in it
>
>
> http://pdf.datasheetarchive.com/indexerfiles/Datasheets-EC3/DSAQ00337826.pdf
>
>
>
> The thing to watch out for on the wii u is that the console and controller
> use miracast on a random 5GHz channel.   It does display mirroring of the
> game to the controller and causes very high channel utilization on that
> channel will console is in use.  Upwards of 60%
>
>
> On Wednesday, June 22, 2016, Adam Forsyth <forsy...@luther.edu> wrote:
>
>> Wii is the most mentioned issue that people are mentioning that they
>> encountered with turning off B rates (and that's the one I've feared and
>> has made me hesitant to do this on our network).  Using a wired port
>> instead is sometimes mentioned as a work around but that doesn't work for
>> us in two of our residence halls that are wireless only and don't have
>> wired ports.  For those that have wireless only residence halls and have
>> disabled B rates, do you just say Wii's are not supported and there is no
>> work around?
>>
>> Also, I don't think they have sold many of them, but does any one know if
>> the Wii U solved this problem of B rates being required or if it has the
>> same problem?
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 9:17 AM, Kanan E Simpson <kesim...@valdosta.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, I know. We still had some students using the Wii to stream Netflix.
>>> Maybe this fall, they will have new updated devices. :)
>>>
>>>
>>> Kanan Simpson, CWNA, JNCIA
>>> Network Services Specialist
>>> Information Technology Division
>>> Valdosta State University
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:
>>> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Osborne, Bruce W
>>> (Network Services)
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 8:03 AM
>>> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
>>> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?
>>>
>>> Really?
>>>
>>> Nintendo dropped Wii & DS support & closed the online store in 2014.
>>>
>>> ​
>>>
>>> Bruce Osborne
>>> Wireless Engineer
>>> IT Network Services - Wireless
>>>
>>> (434) 592-4229
>>>
>>> LIBERTY UNIVERSITY
>>> Training Champions for Christ since 1971
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Kanan E Simpson [mailto:kesim...@valdosta.edu]
>>> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 12:03 PM
>>> Subject: Re: 802.11b data rates disabled?
>>>
>>> We disabled the 11b rates last summer. For the most part, we didn't have
>>> too many complaints. The complaints that we received was from the students
>>> that own the legacy Wii. All though the devices support 11g, it must see
>>> the SSID broadcasted at a 11b (1mbps) rate in order to connect.  This was
>>> the only complaint. We no longer support the original Wii.
>>>
>>> We also have institutional devices at that are older and only support
>>> 11b. For these devices, we simply left the 11b rates on for the APs in the
>>> area they connect. Thankfully, it's only one building.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Kanan Simpson, CWNA, JNCIA
>>> Network Services Specialist
>>> Information Technology Division
>>> Valdosta State University
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:
>>> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Todd M. Hall
>>> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 11:50 AM
>>> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
>>> Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?
>>>
>>> Do you have all of the 802.11b data rates disabled?  If so, how long
>>> have they been disabled?  Did you have many complaints when you disabled
>>> them?  Were there any particular devices that could not connect as a result?
>>>
>>> I'm hoping this information will help us move towards disabling these
>>> old rates.
>>> Thank you for your feedback.
>>>
>>> --
>>> T

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

[Trenton Hurt]

It's 2.4 b/g/n for actually network connectivity but it doesn't require the
legacy data rates to connect.   This is the wifi chipset in it

http://pdf.datasheetarchive.com/indexerfiles/Datasheets-EC3/DSAQ00337826.pdf



The thing to watch out for on the wii u is that the console and controller
use miracast on a random 5GHz channel.   It does display mirroring of the
game to the controller and causes very high channel utilization on that
channel will console is in use.  Upwards of 60%

On Wednesday, June 22, 2016, Adam Forsyth <forsy...@luther.edu> wrote:

> Wii is the most mentioned issue that people are mentioning that they
> encountered with turning off B rates (and that's the one I've feared and
> has made me hesitant to do this on our network).  Using a wired port
> instead is sometimes mentioned as a work around but that doesn't work for
> us in two of our residence halls that are wireless only and don't have
> wired ports.  For those that have wireless only residence halls and have
> disabled B rates, do you just say Wii's are not supported and there is no
> work around?
>
> Also, I don't think they have sold many of them, but does any one know if
> the Wii U solved this problem of B rates being required or if it has the
> same problem?
>
> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 9:17 AM, Kanan E Simpson <kesim...@valdosta.edu
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kesim...@valdosta.edu');>> wrote:
>
>> Yes, I know. We still had some students using the Wii to stream Netflix.
>> Maybe this fall, they will have new updated devices. :)
>>
>>
>> Kanan Simpson, CWNA, JNCIA
>> Network Services Specialist
>> Information Technology Division
>> Valdosta State University
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:
>> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU');>] On
>> Behalf Of Osborne, Bruce W (Network Services)
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 8:03 AM
>> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU');>
>> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?
>>
>> Really?
>>
>> Nintendo dropped Wii & DS support & closed the online store in 2014.
>>
>> ​
>>
>> Bruce Osborne
>> Wireless Engineer
>> IT Network Services - Wireless
>>
>> (434) 592-4229
>>
>> LIBERTY UNIVERSITY
>> Training Champions for Christ since 1971
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Kanan E Simpson [mailto:kesim...@valdosta.edu
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kesim...@valdosta.edu');>]
>> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 12:03 PM
>> Subject: Re: 802.11b data rates disabled?
>>
>> We disabled the 11b rates last summer. For the most part, we didn't have
>> too many complaints. The complaints that we received was from the students
>> that own the legacy Wii. All though the devices support 11g, it must see
>> the SSID broadcasted at a 11b (1mbps) rate in order to connect.  This was
>> the only complaint. We no longer support the original Wii.
>>
>> We also have institutional devices at that are older and only support
>> 11b. For these devices, we simply left the 11b rates on for the APs in the
>> area they connect. Thankfully, it's only one building.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Kanan Simpson, CWNA, JNCIA
>> Network Services Specialist
>> Information Technology Division
>> Valdosta State University
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:
>> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU');>] On
>> Behalf Of Todd M. Hall
>> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 11:50 AM
>> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU');>
>> Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?
>>
>> Do you have all of the 802.11b data rates disabled?  If so, how long have
>> they been disabled?  Did you have many complaints when you disabled them?
>> Were there any particular devices that could not connect as a result?
>>
>> I'm hoping this information will help us move towards disabling these old
>> rates.
>> Thank you for your feedback.
>>
>> --
>> Todd M. Hall
>> Sr. Network Analyst
>> Information Technology Services
>> Mississippi State University
>> t...@msstate.edu <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','t...@msstate.edu')

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

[Adam Forsyth]

Wii is the most mentioned issue that people are mentioning that they
encountered with turning off B rates (and that's the one I've feared and
has made me hesitant to do this on our network).  Using a wired port
instead is sometimes mentioned as a work around but that doesn't work for
us in two of our residence halls that are wireless only and don't have
wired ports.  For those that have wireless only residence halls and have
disabled B rates, do you just say Wii's are not supported and there is no
work around?

Also, I don't think they have sold many of them, but does any one know if
the Wii U solved this problem of B rates being required or if it has the
same problem?

On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 9:17 AM, Kanan E Simpson <kesim...@valdosta.edu>
wrote:

> Yes, I know. We still had some students using the Wii to stream Netflix.
> Maybe this fall, they will have new updated devices. :)
>
>
> Kanan Simpson, CWNA, JNCIA
> Network Services Specialist
> Information Technology Division
> Valdosta State University
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:
> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Osborne, Bruce W
> (Network Services)
> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 8:03 AM
> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?
>
> Really?
>
> Nintendo dropped Wii & DS support & closed the online store in 2014.
>
> ​
>
> Bruce Osborne
> Wireless Engineer
> IT Network Services - Wireless
>
> (434) 592-4229
>
> LIBERTY UNIVERSITY
> Training Champions for Christ since 1971
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Kanan E Simpson [mailto:kesim...@valdosta.edu]
> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 12:03 PM
> Subject: Re: 802.11b data rates disabled?
>
> We disabled the 11b rates last summer. For the most part, we didn't have
> too many complaints. The complaints that we received was from the students
> that own the legacy Wii. All though the devices support 11g, it must see
> the SSID broadcasted at a 11b (1mbps) rate in order to connect.  This was
> the only complaint. We no longer support the original Wii.
>
> We also have institutional devices at that are older and only support 11b.
> For these devices, we simply left the 11b rates on for the APs in the area
> they connect. Thankfully, it's only one building.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kanan Simpson, CWNA, JNCIA
> Network Services Specialist
> Information Technology Division
> Valdosta State University
>
> -Original Message-
> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:
> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Todd M. Hall
> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 11:50 AM
> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?
>
> Do you have all of the 802.11b data rates disabled?  If so, how long have
> they been disabled?  Did you have many complaints when you disabled them?
> Were there any particular devices that could not connect as a result?
>
> I'm hoping this information will help us move towards disabling these old
> rates.
> Thank you for your feedback.
>
> --
> Todd M. Hall
> Sr. Network Analyst
> Information Technology Services
> Mississippi State University
> t...@msstate.edu
> 662-325-9311 (phone)
>
> **
> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent
> Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
>
> **
> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent
> Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
>
> **
> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent
> Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
>
>
> **
> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent
> Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
>
>


-- 
*Adam Forsyth*
Director of Network and Systems
Luther College Information Technology Services

*700 College DriveDecorah, IA 52101563-387-1402*

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

[Jake Snyder]

With mandatory rates, the higher you go the more issues you can see and the 
advantages of more airtime suffer diminishing returns.  Since the lowest 
mandatory is where control frames get sent, it can have some pretty serious 
impact.  Pushing higher than 24 should be done with some good airtime analysis 
that most controllers won't give you. When you watch Mac laptops spam control 
frames like RTS and BAR at 6Mbps and it go unack'd from the AP because of data 
rates, things can go sideways pretty fast.  For more resiliency, keeping lower 
OFDM rates enabled helps clients with poor supplicants have good experiences.

And most NMS and controllers can't see the issues because the AP isn't 
registering the frames sent at unsupported rates.  This leads to performance 
issues that you probably won't see and are hard to quantify.

Trimming DSSS and HR-DSSS rates (1,2,5.5,11) are a good idea if you can, but I 
would advise getting crazy trimming rates beyond that.

My general recommendation is 12Mbps as minimum in 2.4GHz and 6 as the minimum 
for 5GHz.  This is a reasonable starting place with good overall device 
compatibility.  Obviously in LPV and stadiums are exceptions to this advise.

Thanks
Jake Snyder


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 21, 2016, at 7:44 PM, James Andrewartha  
> wrote:
> 
>> On 21/06/16 12:06, Anthony Croome wrote:
>> Exactly, use 24Mbs to avoid weird behaviour.
>> 
>> We looked at this a few years ago and found that XP could not handle 
>> management packets being sent at 48Mb/s or 54Mb/s despite the card 
>> connecting at 450Mb/s on 5GHz N or 144Mb/s on 2.4GHz N.
>> 
>> On 5GHz the laptop could get an IP address but could not ping it's gateway.
>> On 2.4GHz the laptop could get an IP, it could ping it's gateway, but it's 
>> performance was terrible.
>> 
>> What we saw from a 5GHz packet capture was the AP continuously sending RTS 
>> to the client but never getting any packets from the client.  On 2.4GHz it 
>> would reply but only after a random number of RTS were sent.  
> 
> I saw a similar situation recently, a new laptop with an Intel AC
> chipset was sending continuous RTS at 2Mbps (on 2.4GHz), however the AP
> was configured with an 11g protection rate of 11Mbps. Setting that to
> 2Mbps and the client could talk fine.
> 
> -- 
> James Andrewartha
> Network & Projects Engineer
> Christ Church Grammar School
> Claremont, Western Australia
> Ph. (08) 9442 1757
> Mob. 0424 160 877
> 
> **
> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent 
> Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

[James Andrewartha]

On 21/06/16 12:06, Anthony Croome wrote:
> Exactly, use 24Mbs to avoid weird behaviour.
> 
> We looked at this a few years ago and found that XP could not handle 
> management packets being sent at 48Mb/s or 54Mb/s despite the card connecting 
> at 450Mb/s on 5GHz N or 144Mb/s on 2.4GHz N.
> 
> On 5GHz the laptop could get an IP address but could not ping it's gateway.
> On 2.4GHz the laptop could get an IP, it could ping it's gateway, but it's 
> performance was terrible.
> 
> What we saw from a 5GHz packet capture was the AP continuously sending RTS to 
> the client but never getting any packets from the client.  On 2.4GHz it would 
> reply but only after a random number of RTS were sent.  

I saw a similar situation recently, a new laptop with an Intel AC
chipset was sending continuous RTS at 2Mbps (on 2.4GHz), however the AP
was configured with an 11g protection rate of 11Mbps. Setting that to
2Mbps and the client could talk fine.

-- 
James Andrewartha
Network & Projects Engineer
Christ Church Grammar School
Claremont, Western Australia
Ph. (08) 9442 1757
Mob. 0424 160 877

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

[Frank Sweetser]

Hey, I remember that bug! Or at least a very similar one.

There were a wide range of centrino chipsets with a driver bug.  Specifically, 
the driver would advertise 3 stream data rates, even though the hardware 
itself was only 2 stream.  This meant that the card could *usually* process 
broadcast packets, as they get sent at the greatest common denominator speed 
of all associated stations, so could get an IP address and ARP, but any 
unicast traffic would get sent at a data rate the client hardware couldn't 
decode and disappeared.  The fix was to get a new driver from Intel, as MS 
update was shipping buggy drivers for a very, very long time.


The fact that the client getting an IP address depended on the data rates of 
other clients on the same AP made troubleshooting nearly impossible, until we 
got lucky and Trapeze identified it as a known bug.


Frank Sweetser fs at wpi.edu|  For every problem, there is a solution that
Manager of Network Operations   |  is simple, elegant, and wrong.
Worcester Polytechnic Institute |   - HL Mencken

On 6/21/2016 12:06 AM, Anthony Croome wrote:

Exactly, use 24Mbs to avoid weird behaviour.

We looked at this a few years ago and found that XP could not handle management 
packets being sent at 48Mb/s or 54Mb/s despite the card connecting at 450Mb/s 
on 5GHz N or 144Mb/s on 2.4GHz N.

On 5GHz the laptop could get an IP address but could not ping it's gateway.
On 2.4GHz the laptop could get an IP, it could ping it's gateway, but it's 
performance was terrible.

What we saw from a 5GHz packet capture was the AP continuously sending RTS to 
the client but never getting any packets from the client.  On 2.4GHz it would 
reply but only after a random number of RTS were sent.

Anthony
IT Networks
Queensland University of Australia

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jason Cook
Sent: Tuesday, 21 June 2016 11:20 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

Yeah my understanding is that as per the standard devices are 
required(mandatory) to support 6,12,24 rates for 802.11g. So to ensure all 
devices are happy then 24 would be the right minimum, therefore you may see 
some weird behaviour.  So devices need to support that to be compliant, I'm not 
sure it means you have to use it. I'd say if your running 54 and there's no 
complaints why change.  it will be interesting to see how things go.


We disabled 802.11b rates about 3 months back with no issues reported. We've 
left it enabled in some of our remote campuses where we use lower rates to get 
distance.



--
Jason Cook
Technology Services
The University of Adelaide, AUSTRALIA 5005 Ph: +61 8 8313 4800

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Chuck Enfield
Sent: Tuesday, 21 June 2016 6:21 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

Rick,

If I were brave enough to do what you've done, here's what I would worry
about:

- 802.11a/g devices are getting scarce, but I've heard rumors that there were 
802.11g devices that required a basic rate of 6, 12, or 24 Mb/s.
It's possible that there are no such devices left, that driver updates have 
eliminated the limitation, or that no such devices ever existed.
- Many client device drivers do unexpected things when connected to networks 
with unconventional settings.  For example, will clients with a marginal MCS 7 
connection probe for their next AP before their retry rate goes through the 
roof?
- We use 40Mhz channels, so reliable comm at MCS 7 requires about 28 dB SNR.  
It could be very difficult to maintain that while moving.
- Even if clients roam successfully, you'll see an increase in roaming 
activity.  Moving clients may normally hit every second or third AP along the 
way, in your case they'll probably hit every AP.  This could increase the 
overhead consumed by authentication and/or stress your AAA infrastructure.  
That said, the AAA load could be more than offset by reduced authentication 
attempts to indoor APs from outdoor passers-by.

I'm not suggesting these are reasons not to do it.  They're just things I'd 
worry about.  I'd be interested in hearing how it works out for you if you find 
the time to follow up.

Thanks,

Chuck

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Rick.Decaro
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 2:10 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

It sound like a lot of people have already disabled the 802.11b data
rates.   That being saidwhat minimum rate is everyone using?

We just changed ours last week from a minimum of 1Mbps to 54Mbps.   So far

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

[Jason Wang]

We removed 802.11b data rates on our campus in 2011. We didn't hear any 
feedback directly or by way of our Helpdesk. At the time we turned those 
rates off, 802.11b clients were a negligible percentage of our wireless 
users (rounded to ~0.0% when we put together our usage stats for that year).


Jason


On 06/20/2016 10:49 AM, Todd M. Hall wrote:
Do you have all of the 802.11b data rates disabled? If so, how long 
have they been disabled?  Did you have many complaints when you 
disabled them?  Were there any particular devices that could not 
connect as a result?


I'm hoping this information will help us move towards disabling these 
old rates. Thank you for your feedback.






**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

[Danny Eaton]

We have the 5.5 Mbps, 6 Mbps, 9 Mbps, 12 Mbps, 18 Mbps, 24 Mbps, 36 Mbps, 48
Mbps, and 54 Mbps as supported; 11 Mbps as Mandatory, but 1 Mbps and 2 Mbps
as disabled.  

We probably should disable the 5.5, 6, 9, and 11 Mbps, to really "eliminate"
them, but even with 1 and 2 disabled, we're not seeing anyone on 802.11b.
About 20% of my users are on 802.11n (2.4 Ghz), and just over 18% are on 5
Ghz.  I have a total of 17 users on 802.11g, and one on 802.11a.   


-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Chuck Enfield
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 3:51 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

Rick,

If I were brave enough to do what you've done, here's what I would worry
about:

- 802.11a/g devices are getting scarce, but I've heard rumors that there
were 802.11g devices that required a basic rate of 6, 12, or 24 Mb/s.
It's possible that there are no such devices left, that driver updates have
eliminated the limitation, or that no such devices ever existed.
- Many client device drivers do unexpected things when connected to networks
with unconventional settings.  For example, will clients with a marginal MCS
7 connection probe for their next AP before their retry rate goes through
the roof?
- We use 40Mhz channels, so reliable comm at MCS 7 requires about 28 dB SNR.
It could be very difficult to maintain that while moving.
- Even if clients roam successfully, you'll see an increase in roaming
activity.  Moving clients may normally hit every second or third AP along
the way, in your case they'll probably hit every AP.  This could increase
the overhead consumed by authentication and/or stress your AAA
infrastructure.  That said, the AAA load could be more than offset by
reduced authentication attempts to indoor APs from outdoor passers-by.

I'm not suggesting these are reasons not to do it.  They're just things I'd
worry about.  I'd be interested in hearing how it works out for you if you
find the time to follow up.  

Thanks,

Chuck

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Rick.Decaro
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 2:10 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

It sound like a lot of people have already disabled the 802.11b data
rates.   That being saidwhat minimum rate is everyone using?  

We just changed ours last week from a minimum of 1Mbps to 54Mbps.   So far
we have not heard of any issues.Does anyone know what if any problems
could arise from this being set to 54Mbps?   Is there a sweet spot in
between that is better? 

Thanks,

Rick DeCaro
(636)230-1911
rick.dec...@logan.edu


-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Watters, John
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 1:01 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

We have had the b rates disabled for 2 months short of 5 years. Not a single
complaint that I am aware of.


-jcw

John WattersThe University of Alabama
Office of Information Technology
205-348-3992
 


-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Todd M. Hall
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 10:50 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

Do you have all of the 802.11b data rates disabled?  If so, how long have
they been disabled?  Did you have many complaints when you disabled them?
Were there any particular devices that could not connect as a result?

I'm hoping this information will help us move towards disabling these old
rates. 
Thank you for your feedback.

--
Todd M. Hall
Sr. Network Analyst
Information Technology Services
Mississippi State University
t...@msstate.edu
662-325-9311 (phone)

**
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!DSPAM:911,5768574a116701014119785!

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RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

[Chuck Enfield]

Rick,

If I were brave enough to do what you've done, here's what I would worry
about:

- 802.11a/g devices are getting scarce, but I've heard rumors that there
were 802.11g devices that required a basic rate of 6, 12, or 24 Mb/s.
It's possible that there are no such devices left, that driver updates
have eliminated the limitation, or that no such devices ever existed.
- Many client device drivers do unexpected things when connected to
networks with unconventional settings.  For example, will clients with a
marginal MCS 7 connection probe for their next AP before their retry rate
goes through the roof?
- We use 40Mhz channels, so reliable comm at MCS 7 requires about 28 dB
SNR.  It could be very difficult to maintain that while moving.
- Even if clients roam successfully, you'll see an increase in roaming
activity.  Moving clients may normally hit every second or third AP along
the way, in your case they'll probably hit every AP.  This could increase
the overhead consumed by authentication and/or stress your AAA
infrastructure.  That said, the AAA load could be more than offset by
reduced authentication attempts to indoor APs from outdoor passers-by.

I'm not suggesting these are reasons not to do it.  They're just things
I'd worry about.  I'd be interested in hearing how it works out for you if
you find the time to follow up.  

Thanks,

Chuck

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Rick.Decaro
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 2:10 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

It sound like a lot of people have already disabled the 802.11b data
rates.   That being saidwhat minimum rate is everyone using?  

We just changed ours last week from a minimum of 1Mbps to 54Mbps.   So far
we have not heard of any issues.Does anyone know what if any problems
could arise from this being set to 54Mbps?   Is there a sweet spot in
between that is better? 

Thanks,

Rick DeCaro
(636)230-1911
rick.dec...@logan.edu


-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Watters, John
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 1:01 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

We have had the b rates disabled for 2 months short of 5 years. Not a
single complaint that I am aware of.


-jcw

John WattersThe University of Alabama
Office of Information Technology
205-348-3992
 


-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Todd M. Hall
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 10:50 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

Do you have all of the 802.11b data rates disabled?  If so, how long have
they been disabled?  Did you have many complaints when you disabled them?
Were there any particular devices that could not connect as a result?

I'm hoping this information will help us move towards disabling these old
rates. 
Thank you for your feedback.

--
Todd M. Hall
Sr. Network Analyst
Information Technology Services
Mississippi State University
t...@msstate.edu
662-325-9311 (phone)

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent
Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent
Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent
Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

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discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

[Jeremy Mooney]

Not specifically. That's something I haven't seen a straight answer on how
the options interact (Cisco), and haven't spent the time to research yet.
Technically all the a/b/g rates are a modulation and coding scheme and have
MCS bits, although the term (especially with "index" and the number scheme)
often seems to only refer to the n+ standard options. In any case the main
goal was to keep broadcast traffic and distant clients from using
disproportionate airtime, which setting the base rate solved. I figured
even if it's possible for a client to drop to the lower rates under n or ac
for its private traffic, it's unlikely to do so if it's able to maintain an
association at 24+ for the base stream and we could revisit if it became an
issue.

On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 1:38 PM, McClintic, Thomas <
thomas.mcclin...@uth.tmc.edu> wrote:

> Your mention of QAM peaks my interest. Have you disabled lower MCS index
> rates? I’ve often wondered if we disabled 18 and below but leave MCS 0-2
> enabled, can clients use that lower rate on HT and VHT? This is included in
> both beacons and probe responses.
>
>
>
> To the original topic, we have b disabled for at least 2 years. No issues
> or concerns. In fact, we only see about 5% of users on a/g. n is very
> prevalent now.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:
> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Jeremy Mooney
> *Sent:* Monday, June 20, 2016 1:14 PM
> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?
>
>
>
> We've had b disabled for several years, and when we did a complete
> wireless replacement last year dropped rates below 24Mbps to get everything
> up to QAM. The only definite complaints I know about are the Wii users
> everyone else has mentioned. Eliminating the rates would have effectively
> shrunk cell size (indirectly the point - force a roam), but given the
> entire system was replaced as well we've just been addressing them as
> coverage issues (which we also knew existed before the swap) so can't
> quantify that impact.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 10:49 AM, Todd M. Hall <t...@msstate.edu> wrote:
>
> Do you have all of the 802.11b data rates disabled?  If so, how long have
> they been disabled?  Did you have many complaints when you disabled them?
> Were there any particular devices that could not connect as a result?
>
> I'm hoping this information will help us move towards disabling these old
> rates. Thank you for your feedback.
>
> --
> Todd M. Hall
> Sr. Network Analyst
> Information Technology Services
> Mississippi State University
> t...@msstate.edu
> 662-325-9311 (phone)
>
> **
> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent
> Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.educause.edu_groups_=CwMFaQ=6vgNTiRn9_pqCD9hKx9JgXN1VapJQ8JVoF8oWH1AgfQ=rYfqH_8oTvcXxRxUI3x3m3Y7Nwgir7tnuoGbdZsrUM4=pFNLOeFJivl3-l55HMbqDILDs0fFoFn7jB0vg_vIO10=M1ayJHXjuGH0cIP6MdJP8oCYuLMEz_O_NchfEZhLR9U=>
> .
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Jeremy Mooney
>
> ITS - Bethel University
>
> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
> http://www.educause.edu/groups/
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.educause.edu_groups_=CwMFaQ=6vgNTiRn9_pqCD9hKx9JgXN1VapJQ8JVoF8oWH1AgfQ=rYfqH_8oTvcXxRxUI3x3m3Y7Nwgir7tnuoGbdZsrUM4=pFNLOeFJivl3-l55HMbqDILDs0fFoFn7jB0vg_vIO10=M1ayJHXjuGH0cIP6MdJP8oCYuLMEz_O_NchfEZhLR9U=>.
>
> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
> http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
>
>


-- 
Jeremy Mooney
ITS - Bethel University

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

[Watters, John]

We have our minimum/required rate set at 12 Mbps but may go up to 18 in August 
(after the summer term and before the kids come back for fall).


-jcw

John WattersThe University of Alabama
Office of Information Technology
205-348-3992
 


-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Rick.Decaro
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 1:10 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

It sound like a lot of people have already disabled the 802.11b data rates.   
That being saidwhat minimum rate is everyone using?  

We just changed ours last week from a minimum of 1Mbps to 54Mbps.   So far we 
have not heard of any issues.Does anyone know what if any problems could 
arise from this being set to 54Mbps?   Is there a sweet spot in between that is 
better? 

Thanks,

Rick DeCaro
(636)230-1911
rick.dec...@logan.edu


-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Watters, John
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 1:01 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

We have had the b rates disabled for 2 months short of 5 years. Not a single 
complaint that I am aware of.


-jcw

John WattersThe University of Alabama
Office of Information Technology
205-348-3992
 


-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Todd M. Hall
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 10:50 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

Do you have all of the 802.11b data rates disabled?  If so, how long have they 
been disabled?  Did you have many complaints when you disabled them?  Were 
there any particular devices that could not connect as a result?

I'm hoping this information will help us move towards disabling these old 
rates. 
Thank you for your feedback.

--
Todd M. Hall
Sr. Network Analyst
Information Technology Services
Mississippi State University
t...@msstate.edu
662-325-9311 (phone)

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

[Chuck Enfield]

Be aware, the minimum rate question is far less straight-forward than the
11b rates question.  The latter is really an issue of client device
compatibility - something we can expect to be similar across our market
sector.  In addition client device compatibility, minimum data rate
depends upon signal strength, noise level, and channel width.

That said, if you use 40MHz channels and maintain an SNR >= 20dB (I assume
that's most of us these days), you can definitely disable MCS 1 & 2 -
probably even MCS 3.

Chuck

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Rick.Decaro
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 2:10 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

It sound like a lot of people have already disabled the 802.11b data
rates.   That being saidwhat minimum rate is everyone using?  

We just changed ours last week from a minimum of 1Mbps to 54Mbps.   So far
we have not heard of any issues.Does anyone know what if any problems
could arise from this being set to 54Mbps?   Is there a sweet spot in
between that is better? 

Thanks,

Rick DeCaro
(636)230-1911
rick.dec...@logan.edu


-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Watters, John
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 1:01 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

We have had the b rates disabled for 2 months short of 5 years. Not a
single complaint that I am aware of.


-jcw

John WattersThe University of Alabama
Office of Information Technology
205-348-3992
 


-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Todd M. Hall
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 10:50 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

Do you have all of the 802.11b data rates disabled?  If so, how long have
they been disabled?  Did you have many complaints when you disabled them?
Were there any particular devices that could not connect as a result?

I'm hoping this information will help us move towards disabling these old
rates. 
Thank you for your feedback.

--
Todd M. Hall
Sr. Network Analyst
Information Technology Services
Mississippi State University
t...@msstate.edu
662-325-9311 (phone)

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent
Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
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Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent
Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

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RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

[Kanan E Simpson]

Rick, 
I'm not sure of issues other than shrinking the AP cell size. With a minimum 
data rate of 54mbps, you must have a dense ap deployment. How many redundant 
aps are you surveyed for?

Thanks,

Kanan Simpson, CWNA, JNCIA
Network Services Specialist
Information Technology Division
Valdosta State University
Dept: 229-333-7396
Office: 229-333-5740
Helpdesk: 229-245-4357


-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Rick.Decaro
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 2:10 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

It sound like a lot of people have already disabled the 802.11b data rates.   
That being saidwhat minimum rate is everyone using?  

We just changed ours last week from a minimum of 1Mbps to 54Mbps.   So far we 
have not heard of any issues.Does anyone know what if any problems could 
arise from this being set to 54Mbps?   Is there a sweet spot in between that is 
better? 

Thanks,

Rick DeCaro
(636)230-1911
rick.dec...@logan.edu


-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Watters, John
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 1:01 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

We have had the b rates disabled for 2 months short of 5 years. Not a single 
complaint that I am aware of.


-jcw

John WattersThe University of Alabama
Office of Information Technology
205-348-3992
 


-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Todd M. Hall
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 10:50 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

Do you have all of the 802.11b data rates disabled?  If so, how long have they 
been disabled?  Did you have many complaints when you disabled them?  Were 
there any particular devices that could not connect as a result?

I'm hoping this information will help us move towards disabling these old 
rates. 
Thank you for your feedback.

--
Todd M. Hall
Sr. Network Analyst
Information Technology Services
Mississippi State University
t...@msstate.edu
662-325-9311 (phone)

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

[Chuck Enfield]

I'm eagerly awaiting my invitation to the anniversary party.

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Watters, John
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 2:01 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

We have had the b rates disabled for 2 months short of 5 years. Not a
single complaint that I am aware of.


-jcw

John WattersThe University of Alabama
Office of Information Technology
205-348-3992
 


-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Todd M. Hall
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 10:50 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

Do you have all of the 802.11b data rates disabled?  If so, how long have
they been disabled?  Did you have many complaints when you disabled them?
Were there any particular devices that could not connect as a result?

I'm hoping this information will help us move towards disabling these old
rates. 
Thank you for your feedback.

--
Todd M. Hall
Sr. Network Analyst
Information Technology Services
Mississippi State University
t...@msstate.edu
662-325-9311 (phone)

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent
Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent
Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

[McClintic, Thomas]

Your mention of QAM peaks my interest. Have you disabled lower MCS index rates? 
I’ve often wondered if we disabled 18 and below but leave MCS 0-2 enabled, can 
clients use that lower rate on HT and VHT? This is included in both beacons and 
probe responses.

To the original topic, we have b disabled for at least 2 years. No issues or 
concerns. In fact, we only see about 5% of users on a/g. n is very prevalent 
now.


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jeremy Mooney
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 1:14 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

We've had b disabled for several years, and when we did a complete wireless 
replacement last year dropped rates below 24Mbps to get everything up to QAM. 
The only definite complaints I know about are the Wii users everyone else has 
mentioned. Eliminating the rates would have effectively shrunk cell size 
(indirectly the point - force a roam), but given the entire system was replaced 
as well we've just been addressing them as coverage issues (which we also knew 
existed before the swap) so can't quantify that impact.

On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 10:49 AM, Todd M. Hall 
<t...@msstate.edu<mailto:t...@msstate.edu>> wrote:
Do you have all of the 802.11b data rates disabled?  If so, how long have they 
been disabled?  Did you have many complaints when you disabled them?  Were 
there any particular devices that could not connect as a result?

I'm hoping this information will help us move towards disabling these old 
rates. Thank you for your feedback.

--
Todd M. Hall
Sr. Network Analyst
Information Technology Services
Mississippi State University
t...@msstate.edu<mailto:t...@msstate.edu>
662-325-9311 (phone)

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.educause.edu_groups_=CwMFaQ=6vgNTiRn9_pqCD9hKx9JgXN1VapJQ8JVoF8oWH1AgfQ=rYfqH_8oTvcXxRxUI3x3m3Y7Nwgir7tnuoGbdZsrUM4=pFNLOeFJivl3-l55HMbqDILDs0fFoFn7jB0vg_vIO10=M1ayJHXjuGH0cIP6MdJP8oCYuLMEz_O_NchfEZhLR9U=>.



--
Jeremy Mooney
ITS - Bethel University
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
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Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

[Jeremy Mooney]

We've had b disabled for several years, and when we did a complete wireless
replacement last year dropped rates below 24Mbps to get everything up to
QAM. The only definite complaints I know about are the Wii users everyone
else has mentioned. Eliminating the rates would have effectively shrunk
cell size (indirectly the point - force a roam), but given the entire
system was replaced as well we've just been addressing them as coverage
issues (which we also knew existed before the swap) so can't quantify that
impact.

On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 10:49 AM, Todd M. Hall  wrote:

> Do you have all of the 802.11b data rates disabled?  If so, how long have
> they been disabled?  Did you have many complaints when you disabled them?
> Were there any particular devices that could not connect as a result?
>
> I'm hoping this information will help us move towards disabling these old
> rates. Thank you for your feedback.
>
> --
> Todd M. Hall
> Sr. Network Analyst
> Information Technology Services
> Mississippi State University
> t...@msstate.edu
> 662-325-9311 (phone)
>
> **
> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent
> Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
>



-- 
Jeremy Mooney
ITS - Bethel University

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

[Rick . Decaro]

It sound like a lot of people have already disabled the 802.11b data rates.   
That being saidwhat minimum rate is everyone using?  

We just changed ours last week from a minimum of 1Mbps to 54Mbps.   So far we 
have not heard of any issues.Does anyone know what if any problems could 
arise from this being set to 54Mbps?   Is there a sweet spot in between that is 
better? 

Thanks,

Rick DeCaro
(636)230-1911
rick.dec...@logan.edu


-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Watters, John
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 1:01 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

We have had the b rates disabled for 2 months short of 5 years. Not a single 
complaint that I am aware of.


-jcw

John WattersThe University of Alabama
Office of Information Technology
205-348-3992
 


-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Todd M. Hall
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 10:50 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

Do you have all of the 802.11b data rates disabled?  If so, how long have they 
been disabled?  Did you have many complaints when you disabled them?  Were 
there any particular devices that could not connect as a result?

I'm hoping this information will help us move towards disabling these old 
rates. 
Thank you for your feedback.

--
Todd M. Hall
Sr. Network Analyst
Information Technology Services
Mississippi State University
t...@msstate.edu
662-325-9311 (phone)

**
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RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

[Watters, John]

We have had the b rates disabled for 2 months short of 5 years. Not a single 
complaint that I am aware of.


-jcw

John WattersThe University of Alabama
Office of Information Technology
205-348-3992
 


-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Todd M. Hall
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 10:50 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

Do you have all of the 802.11b data rates disabled?  If so, how long have they 
been disabled?  Did you have many complaints when you disabled them?  Were 
there any particular devices that could not connect as a result?

I'm hoping this information will help us move towards disabling these old 
rates. 
Thank you for your feedback.

--
Todd M. Hall
Sr. Network Analyst
Information Technology Services
Mississippi State University
t...@msstate.edu
662-325-9311 (phone)

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

[Bucklaew, Jerry]

On 06/20/2016 11:50 AM, Todd M. Hall wrote:
> Do you have all of the 802.11b data rates disabled?  If so, how long have they
> been disabled?  Did you have many complaints when you disabled them?  Were 
> there
> any particular devices that could not connect as a result?
>
> I'm hoping this information will help us move towards disabling these old 
> rates.
> Thank you for your feedback.
>


We did it about 2 years ago, our lowest 2.4ghz rate is 18meg.   We had the wii 
issue also, but very few of them.

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RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

[Chuck Enfield]

We shut off 802.11b rates in 2011.  While we received no complaints about 
incompatible devices, it’s worth mentioning that our only SSID was 
WPA2-Enterpirse.  We knew going in that there we few if any 802.11b devices 
could connect anyway.  In fact, that’s what encouraged us to shut it off. 
We had lots of devices connecting at 802.11b data rates that we knew shouldn’t 
be.  Once those rates were disabled, some of those devices just naturally 
started connecting at g-rates and some stopped connecting until their 
drivers were updated, but it allowed us to solve a problem that was severely 
hurting network performance.



Chuck Enfield

Manager, Wireless Systems & Engineering

Telecommunications & Networking Services

The Pennsylvania State University

110H, USB2, UP, PA 16802

ph: 814.863.8715

fx: 814.865.3988



From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Samuel Clements
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 11:56 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?



I think we've arrived at a point where most 802.11b devices are flat out 
deprecated. I also believe that you're going to run into far more 802.11g 
devices that don't like 1 & 2 being disabled (most notably the Nintendo Wii) 
than you are people that actually expect an 802.11b device to still 
function. Between that, and the significant positive impact to CU that 
you'll undoubtedly get, it's a very timely conversation to be having. 
Unfortunately, you can't rely on your NMS platforms reporting of 802.11b 
devices since many .11g clients will stick further out than what's 
reasonable using CCK modulation (and showing .11b clients). In all instances 
in recent memory (say, 2 years), I've had the number of complaints by 
disabling .11b data rates be so low as to be background noise. Couple the 
ethernet adapter for the Wii into the equation, and the problems are 
practically nonexistent except in the most corner of cases.

  -Sam



On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 10:49 AM, Todd M. Hall <t...@msstate.edu 
<mailto:t...@msstate.edu> > wrote:

Do you have all of the 802.11b data rates disabled?  If so, how long have 
they been disabled?  Did you have many complaints when you disabled them? 
Were there any particular devices that could not connect as a result?

I'm hoping this information will help us move towards disabling these old 
rates. Thank you for your feedback.

-- 
Todd M. Hall
Sr. Network Analyst
Information Technology Services
Mississippi State University
t...@msstate.edu <mailto:t...@msstate.edu>
662-325-9311   (phone)

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent 
Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.



** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.


**
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discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

[Matthew Newton]

On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 10:49:35AM -0500, Todd M. Hall wrote:
> Do you have all of the 802.11b data rates disabled?

Yes.

> If so, how long have they been disabled?

Two or three years IIRC.

> Did you have many complaints when you disabled them?

None.

> Were there any particular devices that could not connect as a
> result?

Probably, but we never heard of them.

I seem to remember we saw about three 11b clients connected before
we killed it.

> I'm hoping this information will help us move towards disabling these old
> rates.

We're beaconing at 24Mpbs. For 2.4ghz the slowest rate we allow
allow is 12Mbps, and for 5Gzh the slowest is 24Mbps.

The thing to watch out is that your coverage area will drop (which
is probably a good thing, but you may need to install more APs...)

Matthew


-- 
Matthew Newton, Ph.D. 

Systems Specialist, Infrastructure Services,
I.T. Services, University of Leicester, Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom

For IT help contact helpdesk extn. 2253, 

**
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Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

[Reyes, Esteban]

RIP 802.11b

Esteban Reyes 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 20, 2016, at 11:03 AM, Kanan E Simpson <kesim...@valdosta.edu> wrote:
> 
> We disabled the 11b rates last summer. For the most part, we didn't have too 
> many complaints. The complaints that we received was from the students that 
> own the legacy Wii. All though the devices support 11g, it must see the SSID 
> broadcasted at a 11b (1mbps) rate in order to connect.  This was the only 
> complaint. We no longer support the original Wii.
> 
> We also have institutional devices at that are older and only support 11b. 
> For these devices, we simply left the 11b rates on for the APs in the area 
> they connect. Thankfully, it's only one building. 
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Kanan Simpson, CWNA, JNCIA
> Network Services Specialist
> Information Technology Division
> Valdosta State University
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
> [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Todd M. Hall
> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 11:50 AM
> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?
> 
> Do you have all of the 802.11b data rates disabled?  If so, how long have 
> they been disabled?  Did you have many complaints when you disabled them?  
> Were there any particular devices that could not connect as a result?
> 
> I'm hoping this information will help us move towards disabling these old 
> rates. 
> Thank you for your feedback.
> 
> --
> Todd M. Hall
> Sr. Network Analyst
> Information Technology Services
> Mississippi State University
> t...@msstate.edu
> 662-325-9311 (phone)
> 
> **
> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent 
> Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
> 
> **
> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent 
> Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

[Frank Sweetser]

We killed off all 11b data rates about two years ago.  We've had no 
complaints, but also don't have any wireless network set up to handle non-1x 
devices, like game consoles.


Frank Sweetser fs at wpi.edu|  For every problem, there is a solution that
Manager of Network Operations   |  is simple, elegant, and wrong.
Worcester Polytechnic Institute |   - HL Mencken

On 06/20/2016 11:49 AM, Todd M. Hall wrote:

Do you have all of the 802.11b data rates disabled?  If so, how long have they
been disabled?  Did you have many complaints when you disabled them?  Were
there any particular devices that could not connect as a result?

I'm hoping this information will help us move towards disabling these old
rates. Thank you for your feedback.



**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

[Kanan E Simpson]

We disabled the 11b rates last summer. For the most part, we didn't have too 
many complaints. The complaints that we received was from the students that own 
the legacy Wii. All though the devices support 11g, it must see the SSID 
broadcasted at a 11b (1mbps) rate in order to connect.  This was the only 
complaint. We no longer support the original Wii.

We also have institutional devices at that are older and only support 11b. For 
these devices, we simply left the 11b rates on for the APs in the area they 
connect. Thankfully, it's only one building. 


Thanks,

Kanan Simpson, CWNA, JNCIA
Network Services Specialist
Information Technology Division
Valdosta State University

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Todd M. Hall
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 11:50 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

Do you have all of the 802.11b data rates disabled?  If so, how long have they 
been disabled?  Did you have many complaints when you disabled them?  Were 
there any particular devices that could not connect as a result?

I'm hoping this information will help us move towards disabling these old 
rates. 
Thank you for your feedback.

--
Todd M. Hall
Sr. Network Analyst
Information Technology Services
Mississippi State University
t...@msstate.edu
662-325-9311 (phone)

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

[Jeremy Gibbs]

Gone for 2 years.  We have had only a handful of people complain, mostly
about the Wii.




*--Jeremy L. Gibbs*
Sr. Network Engineer
Utica College IITS

On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 11:57 AM, Britton Anderson 
wrote:

> We have had them disabled now for about two years now. When we were
> planning this, we had about 10 routine clients that were associating at
> .11b rates routinely on our guest network--so we couldn't identify them,
> just where they were connecting. When we pitched this, we thought it best
> to invest in a couple dozen low profile USB wifi NICs that we were certain
> worked with Windows 2000 that we could hand out to clients that requested
> them. I think we bought 20 total of a couple different models, and I still
> have a handful left.
>
> Could be a possible avenue for you. Good luck.
>
>
>
> Britton Anderson  |  Senior Network
> Communications Specialist |  University of Alaska
>  |  907.450.8250
>
> On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 7:49 AM, Todd M. Hall  wrote:
>
>> Do you have all of the 802.11b data rates disabled?  If so, how long have
>> they been disabled?  Did you have many complaints when you disabled them?
>> Were there any particular devices that could not connect as a result?
>>
>> I'm hoping this information will help us move towards disabling these old
>> rates. Thank you for your feedback.
>>
>> --
>> Todd M. Hall
>> Sr. Network Analyst
>> Information Technology Services
>> Mississippi State University
>> t...@msstate.edu
>> 662-325-9311 (phone)
>>
>> **
>> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent
>> Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
>>
>
> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at
> http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
>
>

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Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

[Britton Anderson]

We have had them disabled now for about two years now. When we were
planning this, we had about 10 routine clients that were associating at
.11b rates routinely on our guest network--so we couldn't identify them,
just where they were connecting. When we pitched this, we thought it best
to invest in a couple dozen low profile USB wifi NICs that we were certain
worked with Windows 2000 that we could hand out to clients that requested
them. I think we bought 20 total of a couple different models, and I still
have a handful left.

Could be a possible avenue for you. Good luck.



Britton Anderson  |  Senior Network Communications
Specialist |  University of Alaska  |
 907.450.8250

On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 7:49 AM, Todd M. Hall  wrote:

> Do you have all of the 802.11b data rates disabled?  If so, how long have
> they been disabled?  Did you have many complaints when you disabled them?
> Were there any particular devices that could not connect as a result?
>
> I'm hoping this information will help us move towards disabling these old
> rates. Thank you for your feedback.
>
> --
> Todd M. Hall
> Sr. Network Analyst
> Information Technology Services
> Mississippi State University
> t...@msstate.edu
> 662-325-9311 (phone)
>
> **
> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent
> Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
>

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled?

[Samuel Clements]

I think we've arrived at a point where most 802.11b devices are flat out
deprecated. I also believe that you're going to run into far more 802.11g
devices that don't like 1 & 2 being disabled (most notably the Nintendo
Wii) than you are people that actually expect an 802.11b device to still
function. Between that, and the significant positive impact to CU that
you'll undoubtedly get, it's a very timely conversation to be having.
Unfortunately, you can't rely on your NMS platforms reporting of 802.11b
devices since many .11g clients will stick further out than what's
reasonable using CCK modulation (and showing .11b clients). In all
instances in recent memory (say, 2 years), I've had the number of
complaints by disabling .11b data rates be so low as to be background
noise. Couple the ethernet adapter for the Wii into the equation, and the
problems are practically nonexistent except in the most corner of cases.
  -Sam

On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 10:49 AM, Todd M. Hall  wrote:

> Do you have all of the 802.11b data rates disabled?  If so, how long have
> they been disabled?  Did you have many complaints when you disabled them?
> Were there any particular devices that could not connect as a result?
>
> I'm hoping this information will help us move towards disabling these old
> rates. Thank you for your feedback.
>
> --
> Todd M. Hall
> Sr. Network Analyst
> Information Technology Services
> Mississippi State University
> t...@msstate.edu
> 662-325-9311 (phone)
>
> **
> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent
> Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
>

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.