Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless location data for contact tracing

2020-05-15 Thread John Rodkey 
I found this podcast  about efforts by U of W and Microsoft to be
insightful.
https://stackoverflow.blog/2020/05/05/podcast-232-contact-tracing-privacy-surveillance-decentralized/
https://stackoverflow.blog/2020/05/08/podcast-233-contact-tracing-civil-liberties-sham-kakade/

John Rodkey
Director of Servers and Networks
Westmont College

Verification: Unsure if this is a legitimate email to an email list? Make
sure it is recorded at https://my.westmont.edu/it_emails


"*God-fearing faith... is neither brash nor foolhardy and does not tempt
God."* - Martin Luther


On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 9:38 AM Julian Y Koh 
wrote:

> I’m not sure that Wi-Fi data will be the best for doing actual contact
> tracing.  Maybe if you’ve got the full blown Meridian location tracking or
> something similar that can tie in Bluetooth-based beacons, but it seems to
> me that the granularity of Wi-Fi only data wouldn’t quite be up to what
> you’d need for effective contact tracing.  I’m not completely convinced
> that Bluetooth doesn’t cast too wide a net either, but it’d be a lot better
> that Wi-Fi triangulation.
>
> Where we’re anticipating having the discussion around Wi-Fi data is
> gauging user/device density and duration of stay in general areas so that
> we can gauge what areas present the greater risks of exposure.  There was a
> recent NYT article that explored this using cell phone location data.
>
>
> https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/06/opinion/coronavirus-us-reopen.html
>
> Going back to contact tracing, as of right now we see the value of trying
> to roll our own app or system to be limited given that there’s no way to
> tell what people are going to do when they leave campus.  I’m hoping the
> state will come up with something workable that we can then point everyone
> here to use.
>
>
>
> --
> Julian Y. Koh
> Associate Director, Telecommunications and Network Services
> Northwestern Information Technology
>
> 2020 Ridge Avenue #331
> Evanston, IL 60208
> +1-847-467-5780
> Northwestern IT Web Site: 
> PGP Public Key: 
>
>
> On May 15, 2020, at 11:17, McGuire, Michael <
> 00208832ddd0-dmarc-requ...@listserv.educause.edu> wrote:
>
> As I’m sure everyone else is doing, we’re working on plans for having our
> campus community rejoin us at some point. The question of “how far back do
> you keep wireless logs” was just asked which of course leads to “we want to
> see where a person has been on a given day”.
>
> This of course has privacy issues along with the technical challenges of
> storing and accessing that data.
>
> Has anyone else been asked to look into this or begun to make preparations
> for such?
>
> Being an Aruba shop we already leverage AirWave reports for our campus
> police when tracing lost or stolen devices as well as where a user has been
> or devices in an area at a specific time.
>
> This request seems to be a larger scale with potentially more moving parts.
>
>
> - Michael
>
> Michael McGuire
> *Network Systems Administrator*
> *Monmouth University*
> *mmcgu...@monmouth.edu *
> *732.263.5589*
>
> 
> 
> 400 Cedar Avenue
> West Long Branch, NJ 07764
> monmouth.edu
> 
>
> 
> 
>
> 
> 
>
> 
> 
>
> 
> 
>
> 
> 
>
> 
>
> We are a green campus.
> Think before you print.
>
>
>
> **
> Replies to EDUCAUSE Community Group emails are sent to the entire
> community list. If you want to reply only to the person who sent the
> message, copy and paste their email address and forward the email reply.
> Additional participation and subscription information can be found at
> https://www.educause.edu/comm

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless location data for contact tracing

2020-05-15 Thread Julian Y Koh 
The UK folks are supposedly looking at switching to the Apple/Google APIs.  
That should address the background concerns as well as privacy issues with 
their centralized model.

https://techcrunch.com/2020/05/07/uk-eyeing-switch-to-apple-google-api-for-coronavirus-contacts-tracing-report/



On May 15, 2020, at 11:57, LaPorte, David 
mailto:david_lapo...@harvard.edu>> wrote:

One challenging aspect of a Bluetooth-based approach is that the app must be 
open and in the foreground of the device (which must remain unlocked).  That 
seems to be a common limitation with most other Bluetooth-based approaches 
(including Meridian), although it seems like the UK’s “NHS COVID-19” app has 
implemented a relatively untested workaround:

https://techcrunch.com/2020/05/05/nhs-covid-19-the-uks-coronavirus-contacts-tracing-app-explained/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://techcrunch.com/2020/05/05/nhs-covid-19-the-uks-coronavirus-contacts-tracing-app-explained/__;!!Dq0X2DkFhyF93HkjWTBQKhk!E7_iREFnCxQZzunl4_5Ta54GQCz40BIAYWHXgJyYbFbhYMG18B7uMLNS1UkLy8nH3IB1Ow$>:

Best,
Dave

—

David LaPorte
Harvard University Information Technology
P: (617) 496-3446

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
on behalf of Julian Y Koh 
mailto:kohs...@northwestern.edu>>
Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Date: Friday, May 15, 2020 at 12:38
To: 
"WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>" 
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless location data for contact tracing

I’m not sure that Wi-Fi data will be the best for doing actual contact tracing. 
 Maybe if you’ve got the full blown Meridian location tracking or something 
similar that can tie in Bluetooth-based beacons, but it seems to me that the 
granularity of Wi-Fi only data wouldn’t quite be up to what you’d need for 
effective contact tracing.  I’m not completely convinced that Bluetooth doesn’t 
cast too wide a net either, but it’d be a lot better that Wi-Fi triangulation.

Where we’re anticipating having the discussion around Wi-Fi data is gauging 
user/device density and duration of stay in general areas so that we can gauge 
what areas present the greater risks of exposure.  There was a recent NYT 
article that explored this using cell phone location data.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/06/opinion/coronavirus-us-reopen.html<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.nytimes.com_interactive_2020_05_06_opinion_coronavirus-2Dus-2Dreopen.html&d=DwMGaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=MOrPzn96ki798xbUwXJc6Hbb8ZwV-Df1GCkE26WPyzg&m=6Pv6VtEpHK3IKdxjA-5mKmZ5tx8onLW0n73s1lNzqSg&s=Ex7WTUkXv2YMcRkug0XOhFtmR9CXTH33iawJ7C0f6dw&e=>

Going back to contact tracing, as of right now we see the value of trying to 
roll our own app or system to be limited given that there’s no way to tell what 
people are going to do when they leave campus.  I’m hoping the state will come 
up with something workable that we can then point everyone here to use.



--
Julian Y. Koh
Associate Director, Telecommunications and Network Services
Northwestern Information Technology

2020 Ridge Avenue #331
Evanston, IL 60208
+1-847-467-5780
Northwestern IT Web Site: 
<http://www.it.northwestern.edu/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.it.northwestern.edu_&d=DwMGaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=MOrPzn96ki798xbUwXJc6Hbb8ZwV-Df1GCkE26WPyzg&m=6Pv6VtEpHK3IKdxjA-5mKmZ5tx8onLW0n73s1lNzqSg&s=7SWaGbBsKunaURXtSDBN9ieYfTGRMj2sYauhkSsIV9A&e=>>
PGP Public Key: 
<https://bt.ittns.northwestern.edu/julian/pgppubkey.html<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__bt.ittns.northwestern.edu_julian_pgppubkey.html&d=DwMGaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=MOrPzn96ki798xbUwXJc6Hbb8ZwV-Df1GCkE26WPyzg&m=6Pv6VtEpHK3IKdxjA-5mKmZ5tx8onLW0n73s1lNzqSg&s=8_FCvemye75IJtIcPzk0xmvGBQiFAH-FahCg-TlvTsA&e=>>



On May 15, 2020, at 11:17, McGuire, Michael 
<00208832ddd0-dmarc-requ...@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:00208832ddd0-dmarc-requ...@listserv.educause.edu>>
 wrote:

As I’m sure everyone else is doing, we’re working on plans for having our 
campus community rejoin us at some point. The question of “how far back do you 
keep wireless logs” was just asked which of course leads to “we want to see 
where a person has been on a given day”.

This of course has privacy issues along with the technical challenges of 
storing and accessing that data.

Has anyone else been asked to look into this or begun to make preparations for 
such?

Being an Aruba shop we already leverage AirWave reports for our campus police 
when tracing lost or stolen devices as well as where a user has been or devices 
in an area at a specific time.

This reque

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless location data for contact tracing

2020-05-15 Thread LaPorte, David 
One challenging aspect of a Bluetooth-based approach is that the app must be 
open and in the foreground of the device (which must remain unlocked).  That 
seems to be a common limitation with most other Bluetooth-based approaches 
(including Meridian), although it seems like the UK’s “NHS COVID-19” app has 
implemented a relatively untested workaround:

https://techcrunch.com/2020/05/05/nhs-covid-19-the-uks-coronavirus-contacts-tracing-app-explained/:

Best,
Dave

—

David LaPorte
Harvard University Information Technology
P: (617) 496-3446

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
 on behalf of Julian Y Koh 

Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 

Date: Friday, May 15, 2020 at 12:38
To: "WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU" 
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless location data for contact tracing

I’m not sure that Wi-Fi data will be the best for doing actual contact tracing. 
 Maybe if you’ve got the full blown Meridian location tracking or something 
similar that can tie in Bluetooth-based beacons, but it seems to me that the 
granularity of Wi-Fi only data wouldn’t quite be up to what you’d need for 
effective contact tracing.  I’m not completely convinced that Bluetooth doesn’t 
cast too wide a net either, but it’d be a lot better that Wi-Fi triangulation.

Where we’re anticipating having the discussion around Wi-Fi data is gauging 
user/device density and duration of stay in general areas so that we can gauge 
what areas present the greater risks of exposure.  There was a recent NYT 
article that explored this using cell phone location data.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/06/opinion/coronavirus-us-reopen.html<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.nytimes.com_interactive_2020_05_06_opinion_coronavirus-2Dus-2Dreopen.html&d=DwMGaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=MOrPzn96ki798xbUwXJc6Hbb8ZwV-Df1GCkE26WPyzg&m=6Pv6VtEpHK3IKdxjA-5mKmZ5tx8onLW0n73s1lNzqSg&s=Ex7WTUkXv2YMcRkug0XOhFtmR9CXTH33iawJ7C0f6dw&e=>

Going back to contact tracing, as of right now we see the value of trying to 
roll our own app or system to be limited given that there’s no way to tell what 
people are going to do when they leave campus.  I’m hoping the state will come 
up with something workable that we can then point everyone here to use.



--
Julian Y. Koh
Associate Director, Telecommunications and Network Services
Northwestern Information Technology

2020 Ridge Avenue #331
Evanston, IL 60208
+1-847-467-5780
Northwestern IT Web Site: 
<http://www.it.northwestern.edu/<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.it.northwestern.edu_&d=DwMGaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=MOrPzn96ki798xbUwXJc6Hbb8ZwV-Df1GCkE26WPyzg&m=6Pv6VtEpHK3IKdxjA-5mKmZ5tx8onLW0n73s1lNzqSg&s=7SWaGbBsKunaURXtSDBN9ieYfTGRMj2sYauhkSsIV9A&e=>>
PGP Public Key: 
<https://bt.ittns.northwestern.edu/julian/pgppubkey.html<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__bt.ittns.northwestern.edu_julian_pgppubkey.html&d=DwMGaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=MOrPzn96ki798xbUwXJc6Hbb8ZwV-Df1GCkE26WPyzg&m=6Pv6VtEpHK3IKdxjA-5mKmZ5tx8onLW0n73s1lNzqSg&s=8_FCvemye75IJtIcPzk0xmvGBQiFAH-FahCg-TlvTsA&e=>>



On May 15, 2020, at 11:17, McGuire, Michael 
<00208832ddd0-dmarc-requ...@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:00208832ddd0-dmarc-requ...@listserv.educause.edu>>
 wrote:

As I’m sure everyone else is doing, we’re working on plans for having our 
campus community rejoin us at some point. The question of “how far back do you 
keep wireless logs” was just asked which of course leads to “we want to see 
where a person has been on a given day”.

This of course has privacy issues along with the technical challenges of 
storing and accessing that data.

Has anyone else been asked to look into this or begun to make preparations for 
such?

Being an Aruba shop we already leverage AirWave reports for our campus police 
when tracing lost or stolen devices as well as where a user has been or devices 
in an area at a specific time.

This request seems to be a larger scale with potentially more moving parts.


- Michael

Michael McGuire
Network Systems Administrator
Monmouth University
mmcgu...@monmouth.edu<mailto:mmcgu...@monmouth.edu>
732.263.5589
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.monmouth.edu/?utm_source=Email*Signature&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Email*Signature*Generator__;Kysr!!Dq0X2DkFhyF93HkjWTBQKhk!GxdXiJ7V22R-CDaaztQ6k-ODF5Ou3tlHTD5MIYpPr8iu4Avdrb9P8gdGGcZypbLaFMvufg$>
400 Cedar Avenue
West Long Branch, NJ 07764
monmouth.edu<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.monmouth.edu/?utm_source=Email*Signature&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Email*Signature*Generator__;Kysr!!Dq0X2DkFhyF93HkjWTBQKhk!GxdXiJ7V22R-CDaaztQ6k-ODF5Ou3tlHTD5MIYpPr8iu4Avdrb9P8gdGGcZypbLaFMvufg$>

<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/twitter.com/monmouthu__;!!Dq0X2DkFh

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless location data for contact tracing

2020-05-15 Thread Julian Y Koh 
I’m not sure that Wi-Fi data will be the best for doing actual contact tracing. 
 Maybe if you’ve got the full blown Meridian location tracking or something 
similar that can tie in Bluetooth-based beacons, but it seems to me that the 
granularity of Wi-Fi only data wouldn’t quite be up to what you’d need for 
effective contact tracing.  I’m not completely convinced that Bluetooth doesn’t 
cast too wide a net either, but it’d be a lot better that Wi-Fi triangulation.

Where we’re anticipating having the discussion around Wi-Fi data is gauging 
user/device density and duration of stay in general areas so that we can gauge 
what areas present the greater risks of exposure.  There was a recent NYT 
article that explored this using cell phone location data.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/06/opinion/coronavirus-us-reopen.html

Going back to contact tracing, as of right now we see the value of trying to 
roll our own app or system to be limited given that there’s no way to tell what 
people are going to do when they leave campus.  I’m hoping the state will come 
up with something workable that we can then point everyone here to use.



--
Julian Y. Koh
Associate Director, Telecommunications and Network Services
Northwestern Information Technology

2020 Ridge Avenue #331
Evanston, IL 60208
+1-847-467-5780
Northwestern IT Web Site: 
PGP Public Key: 


On May 15, 2020, at 11:17, McGuire, Michael 
<00208832ddd0-dmarc-requ...@listserv.educause.edu>
 wrote:

As I’m sure everyone else is doing, we’re working on plans for having our 
campus community rejoin us at some point. The question of “how far back do you 
keep wireless logs” was just asked which of course leads to “we want to see 
where a person has been on a given day”.

This of course has privacy issues along with the technical challenges of 
storing and accessing that data.

Has anyone else been asked to look into this or begun to make preparations for 
such?

Being an Aruba shop we already leverage AirWave reports for our campus police 
when tracing lost or stolen devices as well as where a user has been or devices 
in an area at a specific time.

This request seems to be a larger scale with potentially more moving parts.


- Michael

Michael McGuire
Network Systems Administrator
Monmouth University
mmcgu...@monmouth.edu
732.263.5589

400 Cedar Avenue
West Long Branch, NJ 07764
monmouth.edu






We are a green campus.
Think before you print.



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Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless location data for contact tracing

2020-05-15 Thread Max McGrath 
Michael -

Yes, we are going through this exact same thing as of a few days ago.

The questions are currently coming from my CIO.  I don't know if others
above her are asking any questions.

My assumption is that we will be utilizing WiFi data for (both with a
certain margin of error):

   - Determining approx. building occupancy
   - Contact tracing

We use PacketFence and currently keep 24 hours of audit logs available to
the UI.  Anything beyond that would be manually searching through
application logs at the OS level.  Just today I've reached out to support
to ask if we move this to 3, 5, 7, etc.. days, what kind of havoc that
would cause to the system.

Max
--
Max McGrath  
Infrastructure and Security Manager
Carthage College
262-551-
mmcgr...@carthage.edu


On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 11:17 AM McGuire, Michael <
00208832ddd0-dmarc-requ...@listserv.educause.edu> wrote:

> As I’m sure everyone else is doing, we’re working on plans for having our
> campus community rejoin us at some point. The question of “how far back do
> you keep wireless logs” was just asked which of course leads to “we want to
> see where a person has been on a given day”.
>
>
>
> This of course has privacy issues along with the technical challenges of
> storing and accessing that data.
>
>
>
> Has anyone else been asked to look into this or begun to make preparations
> for such?
>
>
>
> Being an Aruba shop we already leverage AirWave reports for our campus
> police when tracing lost or stolen devices as well as where a user has been
> or devices in an area at a specific time.
>
>
>
> This request seems to be a larger scale with potentially more moving parts.
>
>
>
>
>
> - Michael
>
>
>
> Michael McGuire
>
> *Network Systems Administrator*
>
> *Monmouth University*
>
> *mmcgu...@monmouth.edu *
>
> *732.263.5589*
>
> [image: Monmouth University Logo]
> 
>
> 400 Cedar Avenue
> West Long Branch, NJ 07764
> monmouth.edu
> 
>
>
>
> [image:
> https://www.monmouth.edu/identity/wp-content/uploads/sites/61/2018/08/social-icons-twitter.png]
> 
>
> [image:
> https://www.monmouth.edu/identity/wp-content/uploads/sites/61/2018/08/social-icons-facebook.png]
> 
>
> [image:
> https://www.monmouth.edu/identity/wp-content/uploads/sites/61/2018/08/social-icons-instagram.png]
> 
>
> [image:
> https://www.monmouth.edu/identity/wp-content/uploads/sites/61/2018/08/social-icons-snapchat.png]
> 
>
> [image:
> https://www.monmouth.edu/identity/wp-content/uploads/sites/61/2018/08/social-icons-linkedin.png]
> 
>
> [image:
> https://www.monmouth.edu/identity/wp-content/uploads/sites/61/2018/08/icons-green.png]
>
> We are a green campus.
> Think before you print.
>
>
>
>
>
> **
> Replies to EDUCAUSE Community Group emails are sent to the entire
> community list. If you want to reply only to the person who sent the
> message, copy and paste their email address and forward the email reply.
> Additional participation and subscription information can be found at
> https://www.educause.edu/community
> 
>

**
Replies to EDUCAUSE Community Group emails are sent to the entire community 
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paste their email address and forward the email reply. Additional participation 
and subscription information can be found at https://www.educause.edu/community