RE: 802.11b data rates disabled?
The gist of the article is just adjusting the Minimum data rate does not affect the beacon rate or the coverage area. This is already a solved issue in enterprise (HP/Aruba, at least) wireless systems. We set the beacon rate per RF band, SSID. According to the CLI guide it is not recommended, but we have used this to optimize coverage & performance The wlan ssid-profile commands are a-beacon-rate & g-beacon-rate. Our current standard here at Liberty University is to set both to 12 except in a few cases. We actually have an SSID on only one AP to support an executive’s TV that needs 1 & 2. Bruce Osborne Wireless Engineer IT Network Services - Wireless (434) 592-4229 LIBERTY UNIVERSITY Training Champions for Christ since 1971 From: Samuel Clements [mailto:scleme...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 3:41 PM Subject: Re: 802.11b data rates disabled? Timely blog post on this subject over at: https://robrobstation.com/2016/06/22/setting-minimum-data-rates-read-this-first/ -Sam On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 11:49 PM, Trenton Hurt <trenth...@gmail.com<mailto:trenth...@gmail.com>> wrote: It's 2.4 b/g/n for actually network connectivity but it doesn't require the legacy data rates to connect. This is the wifi chipset in it http://pdf.datasheetarchive.com/indexerfiles/Datasheets-EC3/DSAQ00337826.pdf The thing to watch out for on the wii u is that the console and controller use miracast on a random 5GHz channel. It does display mirroring of the game to the controller and causes very high channel utilization on that channel will console is in use. Upwards of 60% On Wednesday, June 22, 2016, Adam Forsyth <forsy...@luther.edu<mailto:forsy...@luther.edu>> wrote: Wii is the most mentioned issue that people are mentioning that they encountered with turning off B rates (and that's the one I've feared and has made me hesitant to do this on our network). Using a wired port instead is sometimes mentioned as a work around but that doesn't work for us in two of our residence halls that are wireless only and don't have wired ports. For those that have wireless only residence halls and have disabled B rates, do you just say Wii's are not supported and there is no work around? Also, I don't think they have sold many of them, but does any one know if the Wii U solved this problem of B rates being required or if it has the same problem? On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 9:17 AM, Kanan E Simpson <kesim...@valdosta.edu<mailto:kesim...@valdosta.edu>> wrote: Yes, I know. We still had some students using the Wii to stream Netflix. Maybe this fall, they will have new updated devices. :) Kanan Simpson, CWNA, JNCIA Network Services Specialist Information Technology Division Valdosta State University -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Osborne, Bruce W (Network Services) Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 8:03 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled? Really? Nintendo dropped Wii & DS support & closed the online store in 2014. Bruce Osborne Wireless Engineer IT Network Services - Wireless (434) 592-4229<tel:%28434%29%20592-4229> LIBERTY UNIVERSITY Training Champions for Christ since 1971 -Original Message- From: Kanan E Simpson [mailto:kesim...@valdosta.edu] Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 12:03 PM Subject: Re: 802.11b data rates disabled? We disabled the 11b rates last summer. For the most part, we didn't have too many complaints. The complaints that we received was from the students that own the legacy Wii. All though the devices support 11g, it must see the SSID broadcasted at a 11b (1mbps) rate in order to connect. This was the only complaint. We no longer support the original Wii. We also have institutional devices at that are older and only support 11b. For these devices, we simply left the 11b rates on for the APs in the area they connect. Thankfully, it's only one building. Thanks, Kanan Simpson, CWNA, JNCIA Network Services Specialist Information Technology Division Valdosta State University -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Todd M. Hall Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 11:50 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled? Do you have all of the 802.11b data rates disabled? If so, how long have they been disabled? Did you have many complaints when you disabled them? Were there any particular devices that could not connect as a result? I'm hoping this information will help us move towards disabling these old rates. Thank you for your feedback. -- Todd M. Hall Sr. Netw
RE: 802.11b data rates disabled?
Thanks for the info everyone. We are going to keep our minimum at 54Mbps right now and see what happens. We will do another quick survey to find any coverage gaps that may have cropped up as a result of the change. The main reason for our change is to increase performance in our classrooms where we have 125 students in a small space. We have 2 AP's in each of these rooms and so far the change to 54Mbps has helped from what we can tell. Rick DeCaro (636)230-1911 rick.dec...@logan.edu -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Anthony Croome Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 11:06 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled? Exactly, use 24Mbs to avoid weird behaviour. We looked at this a few years ago and found that XP could not handle management packets being sent at 48Mb/s or 54Mb/s despite the card connecting at 450Mb/s on 5GHz N or 144Mb/s on 2.4GHz N. On 5GHz the laptop could get an IP address but could not ping it's gateway. On 2.4GHz the laptop could get an IP, it could ping it's gateway, but it's performance was terrible. What we saw from a 5GHz packet capture was the AP continuously sending RTS to the client but never getting any packets from the client. On 2.4GHz it would reply but only after a random number of RTS were sent. Anthony IT Networks Queensland University of Australia -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jason Cook Sent: Tuesday, 21 June 2016 11:20 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled? Yeah my understanding is that as per the standard devices are required(mandatory) to support 6,12,24 rates for 802.11g. So to ensure all devices are happy then 24 would be the right minimum, therefore you may see some weird behaviour. So devices need to support that to be compliant, I'm not sure it means you have to use it. I'd say if your running 54 and there's no complaints why change. it will be interesting to see how things go. We disabled 802.11b rates about 3 months back with no issues reported. We've left it enabled in some of our remote campuses where we use lower rates to get distance. -- Jason Cook Technology Services The University of Adelaide, AUSTRALIA 5005 Ph : +61 8 8313 4800 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Chuck Enfield Sent: Tuesday, 21 June 2016 6:21 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled? Rick, If I were brave enough to do what you've done, here's what I would worry about: - 802.11a/g devices are getting scarce, but I've heard rumors that there were 802.11g devices that required a basic rate of 6, 12, or 24 Mb/s. It's possible that there are no such devices left, that driver updates have eliminated the limitation, or that no such devices ever existed. - Many client device drivers do unexpected things when connected to networks with unconventional settings. For example, will clients with a marginal MCS 7 connection probe for their next AP before their retry rate goes through the roof? - We use 40Mhz channels, so reliable comm at MCS 7 requires about 28 dB SNR. It could be very difficult to maintain that while moving. - Even if clients roam successfully, you'll see an increase in roaming activity. Moving clients may normally hit every second or third AP along the way, in your case they'll probably hit every AP. This could increase the overhead consumed by authentication and/or stress your AAA infrastructure. That said, the AAA load could be more than offset by reduced authentication attempts to indoor APs from outdoor passers-by. I'm not suggesting these are reasons not to do it. They're just things I'd worry about. I'd be interested in hearing how it works out for you if you find the time to follow up. Thanks, Chuck -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Rick.Decaro Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 2:10 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled? It sound like a lot of people have already disabled the 802.11b data rates. That being saidwhat minimum rate is everyone using? We just changed ours last week from a minimum of 1Mbps to 54Mbps. So far we have not heard of any issues.Does anyone know what if any problems could arise from this being set to 54Mbps? Is there a sweet spot in between that is better? Thanks, Rick DeCaro (636)230-1911 rick.dec...@logan.edu -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent
RE: 802.11b data rates disabled?
Yes, I know. We still had some students using the Wii to stream Netflix. Maybe this fall, they will have new updated devices. :) Kanan Simpson, CWNA, JNCIA Network Services Specialist Information Technology Division Valdosta State University -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Osborne, Bruce W (Network Services) Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2016 8:03 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled? Really? Nintendo dropped Wii & DS support & closed the online store in 2014. Bruce Osborne Wireless Engineer IT Network Services - Wireless (434) 592-4229 LIBERTY UNIVERSITY Training Champions for Christ since 1971 -Original Message- From: Kanan E Simpson [mailto:kesim...@valdosta.edu] Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 12:03 PM Subject: Re: 802.11b data rates disabled? We disabled the 11b rates last summer. For the most part, we didn't have too many complaints. The complaints that we received was from the students that own the legacy Wii. All though the devices support 11g, it must see the SSID broadcasted at a 11b (1mbps) rate in order to connect. This was the only complaint. We no longer support the original Wii. We also have institutional devices at that are older and only support 11b. For these devices, we simply left the 11b rates on for the APs in the area they connect. Thankfully, it's only one building. Thanks, Kanan Simpson, CWNA, JNCIA Network Services Specialist Information Technology Division Valdosta State University -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Todd M. Hall Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 11:50 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled? Do you have all of the 802.11b data rates disabled? If so, how long have they been disabled? Did you have many complaints when you disabled them? Were there any particular devices that could not connect as a result? I'm hoping this information will help us move towards disabling these old rates. Thank you for your feedback. -- Todd M. Hall Sr. Network Analyst Information Technology Services Mississippi State University t...@msstate.edu 662-325-9311 (phone) ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: 802.11b data rates disabled?
Really? Nintendo dropped Wii & DS support & closed the online store in 2014. Bruce Osborne Wireless Engineer IT Network Services - Wireless (434) 592-4229 LIBERTY UNIVERSITY Training Champions for Christ since 1971 -Original Message- From: Kanan E Simpson [mailto:kesim...@valdosta.edu] Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 12:03 PM Subject: Re: 802.11b data rates disabled? We disabled the 11b rates last summer. For the most part, we didn't have too many complaints. The complaints that we received was from the students that own the legacy Wii. All though the devices support 11g, it must see the SSID broadcasted at a 11b (1mbps) rate in order to connect. This was the only complaint. We no longer support the original Wii. We also have institutional devices at that are older and only support 11b. For these devices, we simply left the 11b rates on for the APs in the area they connect. Thankfully, it's only one building. Thanks, Kanan Simpson, CWNA, JNCIA Network Services Specialist Information Technology Division Valdosta State University -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Todd M. Hall Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 11:50 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled? Do you have all of the 802.11b data rates disabled? If so, how long have they been disabled? Did you have many complaints when you disabled them? Were there any particular devices that could not connect as a result? I'm hoping this information will help us move towards disabling these old rates. Thank you for your feedback. -- Todd M. Hall Sr. Network Analyst Information Technology Services Mississippi State University t...@msstate.edu 662-325-9311 (phone) ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: 802.11b data rates disabled?
Exactly, use 24Mbs to avoid weird behaviour. We looked at this a few years ago and found that XP could not handle management packets being sent at 48Mb/s or 54Mb/s despite the card connecting at 450Mb/s on 5GHz N or 144Mb/s on 2.4GHz N. On 5GHz the laptop could get an IP address but could not ping it's gateway. On 2.4GHz the laptop could get an IP, it could ping it's gateway, but it's performance was terrible. What we saw from a 5GHz packet capture was the AP continuously sending RTS to the client but never getting any packets from the client. On 2.4GHz it would reply but only after a random number of RTS were sent. Anthony IT Networks Queensland University of Australia -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jason Cook Sent: Tuesday, 21 June 2016 11:20 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled? Yeah my understanding is that as per the standard devices are required(mandatory) to support 6,12,24 rates for 802.11g. So to ensure all devices are happy then 24 would be the right minimum, therefore you may see some weird behaviour. So devices need to support that to be compliant, I'm not sure it means you have to use it. I'd say if your running 54 and there's no complaints why change. it will be interesting to see how things go. We disabled 802.11b rates about 3 months back with no issues reported. We've left it enabled in some of our remote campuses where we use lower rates to get distance. -- Jason Cook Technology Services The University of Adelaide, AUSTRALIA 5005 Ph : +61 8 8313 4800 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Chuck Enfield Sent: Tuesday, 21 June 2016 6:21 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled? Rick, If I were brave enough to do what you've done, here's what I would worry about: - 802.11a/g devices are getting scarce, but I've heard rumors that there were 802.11g devices that required a basic rate of 6, 12, or 24 Mb/s. It's possible that there are no such devices left, that driver updates have eliminated the limitation, or that no such devices ever existed. - Many client device drivers do unexpected things when connected to networks with unconventional settings. For example, will clients with a marginal MCS 7 connection probe for their next AP before their retry rate goes through the roof? - We use 40Mhz channels, so reliable comm at MCS 7 requires about 28 dB SNR. It could be very difficult to maintain that while moving. - Even if clients roam successfully, you'll see an increase in roaming activity. Moving clients may normally hit every second or third AP along the way, in your case they'll probably hit every AP. This could increase the overhead consumed by authentication and/or stress your AAA infrastructure. That said, the AAA load could be more than offset by reduced authentication attempts to indoor APs from outdoor passers-by. I'm not suggesting these are reasons not to do it. They're just things I'd worry about. I'd be interested in hearing how it works out for you if you find the time to follow up. Thanks, Chuck -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Rick.Decaro Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 2:10 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled? It sound like a lot of people have already disabled the 802.11b data rates. That being saidwhat minimum rate is everyone using? We just changed ours last week from a minimum of 1Mbps to 54Mbps. So far we have not heard of any issues.Does anyone know what if any problems could arise from this being set to 54Mbps? Is there a sweet spot in between that is better? Thanks, Rick DeCaro (636)230-1911 rick.dec...@logan.edu -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Watters, John Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 1:01 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled? We have had the b rates disabled for 2 months short of 5 years. Not a single complaint that I am aware of. -jcw John WattersThe University of Alabama Office of Information Technology 205-348-3992 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Todd M. Hall Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 10:50 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled? Do you have all of the 802.11b data rates disabled? If
RE: 802.11b data rates disabled?
Yeah my understanding is that as per the standard devices are required(mandatory) to support 6,12,24 rates for 802.11g. So to ensure all devices are happy then 24 would be the right minimum, therefore you may see some weird behaviour. So devices need to support that to be compliant, I'm not sure it means you have to use it. I'd say if your running 54 and there's no complaints why change. it will be interesting to see how things go. We disabled 802.11b rates about 3 months back with no issues reported. We've left it enabled in some of our remote campuses where we use lower rates to get distance. -- Jason Cook Technology Services The University of Adelaide, AUSTRALIA 5005 Ph : +61 8 8313 4800 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Chuck Enfield Sent: Tuesday, 21 June 2016 6:21 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled? Rick, If I were brave enough to do what you've done, here's what I would worry about: - 802.11a/g devices are getting scarce, but I've heard rumors that there were 802.11g devices that required a basic rate of 6, 12, or 24 Mb/s. It's possible that there are no such devices left, that driver updates have eliminated the limitation, or that no such devices ever existed. - Many client device drivers do unexpected things when connected to networks with unconventional settings. For example, will clients with a marginal MCS 7 connection probe for their next AP before their retry rate goes through the roof? - We use 40Mhz channels, so reliable comm at MCS 7 requires about 28 dB SNR. It could be very difficult to maintain that while moving. - Even if clients roam successfully, you'll see an increase in roaming activity. Moving clients may normally hit every second or third AP along the way, in your case they'll probably hit every AP. This could increase the overhead consumed by authentication and/or stress your AAA infrastructure. That said, the AAA load could be more than offset by reduced authentication attempts to indoor APs from outdoor passers-by. I'm not suggesting these are reasons not to do it. They're just things I'd worry about. I'd be interested in hearing how it works out for you if you find the time to follow up. Thanks, Chuck -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Rick.Decaro Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 2:10 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled? It sound like a lot of people have already disabled the 802.11b data rates. That being saidwhat minimum rate is everyone using? We just changed ours last week from a minimum of 1Mbps to 54Mbps. So far we have not heard of any issues.Does anyone know what if any problems could arise from this being set to 54Mbps? Is there a sweet spot in between that is better? Thanks, Rick DeCaro (636)230-1911 rick.dec...@logan.edu -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Watters, John Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 1:01 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled? We have had the b rates disabled for 2 months short of 5 years. Not a single complaint that I am aware of. -jcw John WattersThe University of Alabama Office of Information Technology 205-348-3992 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Todd M. Hall Sent: Monday, June 20, 2016 10:50 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] 802.11b data rates disabled? Do you have all of the 802.11b data rates disabled? If so, how long have they been disabled? Did you have many complaints when you disabled them? Were there any particular devices that could not connect as a result? I'm hoping this information will help us move towards disabling these old rates. Thank you for your feedback. -- Todd M. Hall Sr. Network Analyst Information Technology Services Mississippi State University t...@msstate.edu 662-325-9311 (phone) ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion
