Re: [WSG] web essentials 04 - zeldman video keynote online
Hey, To do subtitleing with VIDEOLAN All you need to do is this: 1 00:06:54,970 -- 00:06:58,840 Subtitle number 1!!! 2 00:06:58,980 -- 00:07:00,910 SubTitle Number2!! 3 00:07:01,050 -- 00:07:03,240 Subtitle Number 3!!! Do that in a TEXT FILE, with the Subtitle text, and the correct TIME VALUES (HH:MM:SS,MS [I think the numbers after the comma are the miliseconds???]) Name the TEXTFILE the same as the video file with the extention: .srt That should work fine! The following is an example (first 15 subtitles) from the movie KILL BILL: 1 00:15:15,640 -- 00:15:17,800 For those regarded as warriors... 2 00:15:18,550 -- 00:15:20,910 ...when engaged in combat... 3 00:15:21,050 -- 00:15:26,680 ...the vanquishing of thine enemy can be the warrior's only concern. 4 00:15:28,320 -- 00:15:34,320 Suppress all human emotions and compassion... 5 00:15:38,600 -- 00:15:45,200 ...kill whoever stands in thy way, even if that be Lord God, 6 00:15:45,340 -- 00:15:48,000 or Buddha himself. 7 00:15:51,580 -- 00:15:57,740 This truth lies at the heart of the art of combat. 8 00:41:14,530 -- 00:41:18,230 Look at me Matsumoto... 9 00:41:20,040 -- 00:41:23,200 ...take a good look at my face. 10 00:41:25,210 -- 00:41:27,480 Look at my eyes. 11 00:41:29,350 -- 00:41:31,680 Look at my nose. 12 00:41:32,490 -- 00:41:34,980 Look at my chin. 13 00:41:36,290 -- 00:41:38,880 Look at my mouth. 14 00:41:41,360 -- 00:41:43,350 Do I look familiar? 15 00:41:45,660 -- 00:41:51,000 Do I look like somebody you murdered! Leslie Riggs wrote: I just did a search for subtitles in Internet media and found this... http://www.cpcweb.com/Webcasting/webcast_samples.htm I know it costs MONEY to get this - but there's another one called VideoLAN, which is free, open source software but I don't know a whole lot about it: http://www.videolan.org/ - still researching this. I want not only accessibility but also web standards compliance. But, is that asking too much? So, I guess the capabilities are out there. And I'm proud to see a number of people right here in this group who have the skills and knowledge to create things like this with SAMI or SMIL. Two organizations among my clients that are both comprised of and oriented toward the Deaf and hard of hearing community have asked me to look into creating streaming video of their representatives using American Sign Language to include on their websites - and we're looking at voice-overs for site visitors who may not be familiar with ASL, and/or, including text translations (captioning or perhaps just a paragraph next to/beneath the video) because accessibility works both ways. Cost figures into the decision making process quite a bit. Life gets a lot more complicated when we consider all the possible ways to be accessible. I know I may be asking a lot, but I feel like I miss out, when I WANT so much to learn everything everybody else here gets to learn. Talking Newspapers is a great idea - and an excellent solution for people with visual impairments. Captioned/subtitled media on the Web is hugely popular with Deaf and hard of hearing people, because it's real-time information in a visual form. Leslie Riggs Now you've got me thinking. Is there anything similar to the Talking Newspapers service for internet content? Should there be? A group of fast typing volunteers/proofreaders could provide transcripts to popular non subtitled items. We'd barely be scratching the surface of what needs to be done but is it worth thinking about Leslie? Janet ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Chris Stratford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.neester.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] web essentials 04 - zeldman video keynote online
Leslie Riggs wrote: How hard was it to caption, Patrick? Is it real time-consuming? Would it be something doable for each of the presentations that are filmed? I'm not the quickest typist in the world, and in parts the audio was a tad hard to understand, but it took me about 20-25 minutes to make the initial transcript,; an hour to turn the transcript into a proper QText file with individual timings (that file is linked straight from the video page as well, under the related files bit), and another hour just to fiddle around tweaking the timecodes and to get SMIL to display just the way I wanted it (this would now be cut down to far less, as the majority of that time was spent experimenting with settings etc) So, around 2 1/2 hours for 7 1/2 minutes of video. If I were to do these more often, the time would probably drop considerably due to practice. Also, I simply used Quicktime player and notepad - using more dedicated software would again cut the time down (I did try to install Magpie, but something in my settings wasn't quite right and it wouldn't run on my machine http://ncam.wgbh.org/webaccess/magpie/ ) Patrick H. Lauke -- _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Help with suggestions
Dear all, I am a beginner. Please help me on www.TattaMangalam.com with its looks navigation. I'd prefer pure CSS HTML. regards Prashanth Prashanth Nair"dotcompals" Tattamangalam.P.O Palakkad Dt. Kerala (State) India-678102 http://www.TattaMangalam.Com Call: +91 94474 22736 ; +91 4923 227395Useful Linkswww.KeralaClick.com for Stunning Images of KeralaGet Firefox!Safer/Faster/Better::: the Browser You can Trust Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! Get yours free!
[WSG] Help With a weird link style
Hello All, Im finishing a website at http://www.novo.meucarronovo.com.br/compara.php Inside a tag: ul li|a href=""Imprimir Lista /a|/li li|a href=""Nova busca/a|/li /ul The rigth class and style inside a tag a/a can be viewed at: http://www.novo.meucarronovo.com.br/listabusca.php Inside tag: ul lia href="" Enviar para um amigo/a|/li li|a target="_blank" href=""Imprimir veiacute;culo/a|/li li|a href=""Veiacute;culos salvos/a|/li li|a href=""Nova busca/a|/li /ul The problem is that the style links are being showed in different styles without reason. Can anyone helpme? And i appreciate advices about layout and design Thanks, Genau Jr. www.meucarronovo.com.br ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Help With a weird link style
First of all... you have I don't know how many instances of the same javascripts all over the place. You don't have a doctype. You have 2 start tags for style. You have your bodytag before the closing headtag. I suggest you fix that first. Kim Genau Junior wrote: Hello All, Im finishing a website at http://www.novo.meucarronovo.com.br/compara.php Inside a tag: ul li|a href=?=$url?Imprimir Lista /a|/li li|a href=buscaavancada.phpNova busca/a|/li /ul The rigth class and style inside a tag a/a can be viewed at: http://www.novo.meucarronovo.com.br/listabusca.php Inside tag: ul lia href=amigocarro.php?id=?=$veicu_id? onclick=window.open(this.href, 'exemple', 'height=200, width=400, top=0, left=0, toolbar=no, menubar=yes, location=no, resizable=no, scrollbars=no, status=no'); return false;Enviar para um amigo/a|/li li|a target=_blank href=?=$url?Imprimir veiacute;culo/a|/li li|a href=compara.phpVeiacute;culos salvos/a|/li li|a href=buscaavancada.phpNova busca/a|/li /ul The problem is that the style links are being showed in different styles without reason. Can anyone helpme? And i appreciate advices about layout and design Thanks, Genau Jr. www.meucarronovo.com.br ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Unsubscribing
Just a suggestion: I'd like to remain a member on the website but do not have time to read any emails at the moment. I went to the website to unsubscribe and it's a dual function - unsubscribe AND delete your membership. I'm unsubscribing, hope you dont take it personally. Would seem like a good idea (tm) to maintain membership but not email people. Aaron Atomic Software http://www.atomic-software.com.au phone: +61 409 430 231email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [WSG] Unsubscribing
Title: Message This is an excellent suggestion. As good as it is... there is too much email for me to digest. ~Rob - - - - - - - - - - -Rob McCormack, P. Eng.PresidentReadPlease Corporation"Software that lets your computer talk"121 Cherry Ridge RoadThunder Bay, ON, CanadaP7G 1A7 Time Zone: ET, GMT-4, New York Time Toll free: 877-768-6720 Phone: 807-474-7702 Fax: 807-768-1285 Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://readplease.com- - - - - - - - - - - -Original Message-From: Aaron DC [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 3:12 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [WSG] Unsubscribing Just a suggestion: I'd like to remain a member on the website but do not have time to read any emails at the moment. I went to the website to unsubscribe and it's a dual function - unsubscribe AND delete your membership. I'm unsubscribing, hope you dont take it personally. Would seem like a good idea (tm) to maintain membership but not email people. Aaron Atomic Software http://www.atomic-software.com.au phone: +61 409 430 231email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [WSG] Unsubscribing
Why not just create this kind of atmosphere in a forum, instead of an email group? Just a thought, people could check it on their own time - instead of filtering through dozens of emails each day (which I'm sure no one puts at the top of their list). Aaron Holbrook On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:59:58 -0500, Rob McCormack - ReadPlease Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is an excellent suggestion. As good as it is... there is too much email for me to digest. ~Rob - - - - - - - - - - - Rob McCormack, P. Eng. President ReadPlease Corporation Software that lets your computer talk 121 Cherry Ridge Road Thunder Bay, ON, Canada P7G 1A7 Time Zone: ET, GMT-4, New York Time Toll free: 877-768-6720 Phone: 807-474-7702 Fax: 807-768-1285 Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://readplease.com - - - - - - - - - - - -Original Message- From: Aaron DC [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 3:12 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Unsubscribing Just a suggestion: I'd like to remain a member on the website but do not have time to read any emails at the moment. I went to the website to unsubscribe and it's a dual function - unsubscribe AND delete your membership. I'm unsubscribing, hope you dont take it personally. Would seem like a good idea (tm) to maintain membership but not email people. Aaron Atomic Software http://www.atomic-software.com.au phone: +61 409 430 231 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Unsubscribing
I think unsubscribing from the email list indepently of memebership is a good idea. I prefer email list to forums... because my email client can do a lot of the work for me such as highlight mail keywords, mark threads as read, plus I can search through my local archives a lot quicker than searching through an online forum. my 2 cents. Terrence Wood. On 2004-11-22 10:03 AM, Aaron Holbrook wrote: Why not just create this kind of atmosphere in a forum, instead of an email group? Just a thought, people could check it on their own time - instead of filtering through dozens of emails each day (which I'm sure no one puts at the top of their list). -- *** Are you in the Wellington area and interested in web standards? Wellington Web Standards Group inaugural meeting 9 Dec 2004. See http://webstandardsgroup.org/go/event24.cfm for details *** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Unsubscribing
on 11/21/2004 9:03 PM Aaron Holbrook said the following: Why not just create this kind of atmosphere in a forum, instead of an email group? Perhaps because everybody would be critiquing the design and validity of the site itself. ;) Besides, is there valid XHTML/CSS forum software available anywhere? ~john _ Dr. Zeus Web Development http://www.DrZeus.net content without clutter ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Unsubscribing
These messages really should be sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] rather than the list. Not to stop people publicly complaining but to keep the non-standards traffic down for everyone else. No to the forum, this has been discussed before. Yes to the no-mail membership but not until I have time over xmas. I still maintain it's kinda pointless though. The membership is to the list. There's nothing else (apart from the ability to add resources to the website) to be a member of. Non-members are welcome at the meetings. If you don't want the mailing list what are you joining for? As I've said before, I'm happy to charge you a joining fee, send you a little WSG member badge and tell you the secret handshake, but I really don't think you'll pay. Once I do it, if you're a member but not on the list you won't be able to post to the list. A reminder about the rss feed of the list. Not perfect but not in your inbox either. http://webstandardsgroup.org/rss.cfm I'd prefer responses off list please -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] P -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Aaron Holbrook Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 8:04 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Unsubscribing Why not just create this kind of atmosphere in a forum, instead of an email group? Just a thought, people could check it on their own time - instead of filtering through dozens of emails each day (which I'm sure no one puts at the top of their list). Aaron Holbrook On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:59:58 -0500, Rob McCormack - ReadPlease Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is an excellent suggestion. As good as it is... there is too much email for me to digest. ~Rob - - - - - - - - - - - Rob McCormack, P. Eng. President ReadPlease Corporation Software that lets your computer talk 121 Cherry Ridge Road Thunder Bay, ON, Canada P7G 1A7 Time Zone: ET, GMT-4, New York Time Toll free: 877-768-6720 Phone: 807-474-7702 Fax: 807-768-1285 Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://readplease.com - - - - - - - - - - - -Original Message- From: Aaron DC [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 3:12 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Unsubscribing Just a suggestion: I'd like to remain a member on the website but do not have time to read any emails at the moment. I went to the website to unsubscribe and it's a dual function - unsubscribe AND delete your membership. I'm unsubscribing, hope you dont take it personally. Would seem like a good idea (tm) to maintain membership but not email people. Aaron Atomic Software http://www.atomic-software.com.au phone: +61 409 430 231 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Unsubscribing
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:03:32 -0600, Aaron Holbrook wrote: Why not just create this kind of atmosphere in a forum, instead of an email group? Great idea! You go create it. This group is an email list. :) IIRC, Peter (the listmom) has mentioned that the next version of the software used to run the list will include the ability to go no-mail. So, all things with time! Lea ~ with core group member hat set to on -- Lea de Groot Elysian Systems - I Understand the Internet http://elysiansystems.com/ Search Engine Optimisation, Usability, Information Architecture, Web Design Brisbane, Australia ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
ADMIN - THREAD CLOSED Re: [WSG] Unsubscribing
OK, Guys - enough. The list may be able to handle no-mail soon. The list is not turning into a forum. We've been asked in the past not to discuss the list on the list; if you have a suggestion or a request, please mail Russ or Peter directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] END THREAD warmly, Lea -- Lea de Groot WSG Core member hat firmly on. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re[2]: [WSG] Unsubscribing
Hello john, Sunday, November 21, 2004, 9:17:44 PM, you wrote: Besides, is there valid XHTML/CSS forum software available anywhere? I did modify phpbb2 to use css positioning instead of nested tables (for some of it, at least), but getting it all valid would have taken too long for the client's budget. I'd like to find one that does do valid pages. -- Best regards, Iainmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] choosing encoding, charset and using special characters
Julin Landerreche wrote: 1) Question: Is there a way to use special characters directly in the code? Two ways, actually, both requiring the pages being displayed as utf-8. One is writing the document with an editor capable of saving text as utf-8 (Unired is the one I like - http://www.esperanto.mv.ru/UniRed/ENG/), so that anything you can key or paste in it will be stored correctly and rendered as expected, as long as you remember to put a meta http-equiv=content-type content=text/html; charset=utf-8 in your page's head. The other one is using a browser's form to input the text and send it to some sort of CMS. Provided the page with the form is utf-8 too, all modern browsers will convert the whole stuff to utf-8 while uploading. 2) I have seen a lot of webpages that directly use the special character and dont code them as html entities. This pages are displayed correctly. Question: Is this a good or bad practice (to use special characters in code, instead of entities)? According to my experience, it is OK to do it using Unicode, otherwise you're relying on unwarranted assumptions regarding the native codepage of the reader's machine (example: if you use an in your source it will probably be displayed as such on any Spanish and generally western language OS, but it will become a on most Central European PCs). 3. In Google results, I found that those special characters arent always correctly displayed. Google uses utf-8 for display, so your browser renders the title as if it was encoded as such. Question: Is there a way to force or override the encoding (not the charset) directly from the page code? I think that my textpattern managed pages should have ISO-8850-1 encoding. You can try using the numeric character references (written as #xxx, where xxx is the decimal value of the character) or the hexadecimal ones (written as #x, where is the hex value of the same). The complete list of references is at ftp://ftp.unicode.org/Public/MAPPINGS/. 3. If I change to UTF-8... wich are the advantages / disvantages? The main advantages are correct rendering in all modern browsers - OSes, plus the possibility of hassle-free mixing of characters from any charset on a single page. Besides this, it is rapidly becoming the standard encoding for all sort of documents, on the web or otherwise. There are disavantages: Netscape 4.7 mostly doesn't recognize the characters (except for the first 127 that are part of ASCII) and MacOS 9 and below has sometimes a weird way of displaying them. One final word about the document title: even if you place the above meta before the title tag and tweak your server to transmit the correct MIME type almost any browser around will still use the OS's default 'window title' font for the title, so it will be displayed as expected only if that font contains the required glyphs (or shapes). It will display correctly in Google listings, nevertheless. -- Dejan Kozina Web Design Studio Dolina 346 (TS) I-34018 Trst/Trieste - Italy tel./fax: +39 040 228 436 cell.: +39 348 7355 225 http://www.kozina.com/ e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] begin:vcard fn:Dejan Kozina n:Kozina;Dejan org:Dejan Kozina Web Design Studio adr:;;Dolina 346;Dolina;TS;I-34018;Italy email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] tel;work:+39 348 7355 225 tel;fax:+39 040 228 436 tel;home:+39 040 228 436 tel;cell:+39 348 7355 225 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://www.kozina.com/ version:2.1 end:vcard
[WSG] Convincing usability/standards arguments
I think Felix has put in a lot of time and effort with his work at... http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/wauth1.html ...and I found a lot of his demonstrations useful. So before I start I just wanted to thank him for his efforts before using his work as an example of perhaps part of why the font-size argument got so side-tracked. As a designer developer I'd like to see two basic things to convince me of an argument: 1. Well designed examples: With no disrespect intended to Felix, his pages are not very aesthetic. While arguing points that designers must take into consideration, the pages themselves do not demonstrate that the designers visual integrity will not be overly jeopardised. This is really why CSS Zen Garden is successful as it demonstrates aesthetic as well as structural integrity. It's the picture is worth a thousand words type thing. This matter is not to be trivialised. A designers income is based on the ability to produce visually appealing work. We all know how carefully we must work with clients as it is to bring them over to a standards-based approach. If we tread too heavily and also produce work that we or the client feel is visually compromised, we risk losing them to one of the many other firms who are not taking a standards-based approach, yet do produce visually appealing sites. - So my first request would be if you are trying to convince designers, but cannot produce visually appealing examples of points you are trying to demonstrate, give links to sites that do. I already use and send clients/other developers to sites like: http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/index.cfm http://www.htmldog.com/ Because their presentation installs confidence as well as the articles being well written. 2. User examples/case studies: Arguments based around a generic user/visitor/etc don't come across well. One of the good things about this list is the spread of contributors and the spread of markets they cover. With regards to the font-size argument there are clearly users for whom this is more important than others. The considerations made for a cutting edge interior design website are not just the same as those for a family care organisation website. - My second request is then to give some indication as to the type of users this is important to and therefore the priority of consideration that it should be given, i.e. everything is important to somebody but is it important to me? Since at this stage of standards-based web development we are all spending a lot of time educating I thought it would be good to just outline what would be helpful to me and I hope other developers on the list. Thanks, Nick ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Ten questions for Cameron Adams
Cameron Adams, aka the Man in Blue, talks about standards, his amazing site, design, CSS Scrabble, the Web Standards Awards, accessible forms and more. http://webstandardsgroup.org/features/cameron-adams.cfm Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Graph descriptions: Summary, details or both
Hello list, I have been providing [D] links to the descriptions for the graphs on my website. However, the descriptions are basically limited to summaries of the graphs, telling about the axis, type of data plotted and the important trends or may be a couple of figures. Now, I am not sure whether a summary is enough or the descriptions should also detail the underlying data. Its easy for a normal reader to either study a graph in detail or just give it a quick glance to get an idea about, say, the trend. How are we supposed to make it equally easy for people with visual disabilities ? Should we have two [D] links - one taking to the summary and the other to the detailed analysis of the graph so that the user can decide his option ? Any ideas and/or examples would be appreciated ? Thanks Bhuvnesh Chaudhry * This e-mail message (along with any attachments) is intended only for the named addressee and could contain information that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that any dissemination, copying or use of any of the information is prohibited. Please notify us immediately by return e-mail if you are not the intended recipient and delete all copies of the original message and attachments. This footnote also confirms that this message has been checked for computer viruses. * ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Help With a weird link style
Hi Genau Jr, The first step when asking for help is always to get the page code valid first. See http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://novo.meucarronovo.com.br/ Most of your problems seem to stem from unescaped ampersands () in links (I haven't looked too far down as there are 153 errors). So, your link to: http://www.meucarronovo.com.br/cgi-bin/advertpro/banners.pl?region=0campaig n=74banner=52publisher=0mode=CLICKbust=203939timestamp=20041122044306 Must be converted to: http://www.meucarronovo.com.br/cgi-bin/advertpro/banners.pl?region=0amp;cam paign=74amp;banner=52amp;publisher=0amp;mode=CLICKamp;bust=203939amp;ti mestamp=20041122044306 Etc. all the way through your page. If the links come out of a dynamic system or CMS then you need to have that system escape the ampersands or give up on XHTML altogether. Once all the links are finished you'll probably have some other errors to fix. If you need help fixing those, please ask for help. When you get a This Page Is Valid XHTML 1.0 Transitional! message on the validator, let us know if you still have problems with your initial enquiry. Regards, Peter - sorry. The correct link is http://novo.meucarronovo.com.br without www ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Convincing usability/standards arguments
Nick Lo wrote: I think Felix has put in a lot of time and effort with his work at... http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/wauth1.html ...and I found a lot of his demonstrations useful. I'd like to add my name under that comment. Have visited his site a number of times over the last couple of months, while trying to find some background for use in my own research. As a designer developer I'd like to see two basic things to convince me of an argument: 1. Well designed examples: ... - So my first request would be if you are trying to convince designers, but cannot produce visually appealing examples of points you are trying to demonstrate, give links to sites that do. I already use and send clients/other developers to sites like: http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/index.cfm http://www.htmldog.com/ Design is as important as content (in my view). It's hard to tell people anything if they don't like the look of the page. Guess web designers are no different from other visitors in that respect. However, what should we think if a well-designed web page with a lot of good information, breaks when put under just a little bit of stress? (I broke both your examples - sorry :-) ) Question: How much should a well designed example be able to take? I guess that's part of your second request... 2. User examples/case studies: ... - My second request is then to give some indication as to the type of users this is important to and therefore the priority of consideration that it should be given, i.e. everything is important to somebody but is it important to me? Are there any user groups that we can refer to? Sorry if that sounds like a stupid question, but it looks to me like we are in the dark here. Are there any reliable case studies on the web? I have read plenty, but I'm still in the dark. It is sometimes difficult to come up with hard evidence about anything on the web, and useful discussions are often disrupted when we try to find some practical middle ground. Sorry, but THREAD CLOSED isn't always helpful or meaningful... I can't surf around and break peoples pages and say they are well designed or not-so-well designed if I don't know more about where that middle ground is, and the practical limits were we have to let it go. All studies I have found goes all over the place, and I end up with something close to what a Norwegian Government page says about improvements for those who are not as lucky as myself: don't bother to do anything, because it won't work well for many anyway, and it will probably make things worse for most (my interpretation and translation). Not much to go on. --- Case study: I had to base my own case studies (to use on my own site) on a few friends who just surfed through half a dozen different page-structures/ web pages, and rely on simple better and worse comments. These friends of mine happened to be blind, so they could see things from that angle. They also represented large national groups of people with low or no vision, who could add some more to my simple case study. However, none of them were able to tell me much about their software and hardware, and all I know is that their solutions are spread all over the place. Not much standards there... A few common factors came through for blind and low-vision visitors. - they preferred CSS-styled pages over nested-table design (not surprising). - they preferred well-sequenced pages with main content first (links on top were no problem, but they didn't like them there. OTOH: link-relations in the page head were just fine for those who had access to them). - they didn't care about font-size as long as the design-part didn't get in the way (those with low vision zoomed text and blew the designs to pieces, using all sorts of methods). - they like to read all the hidden stuff that people with normal vision don't know is there (I use off-screen positioning and alt text where I think it matters - testing in Opera/Lynx - seems to work). - they like it when the written content reflects the graphical content well enough to give them some insight into what those images are all about. Most of them are good at visualizing. (I try to make my pages make sense with no images, and not rely on alt-text). I don't think the above qualifies as a case study, but... Since at this stage of standards-based web development we are all spending a lot of time educating I thought it would be good to just outline what would be helpful to me and I hope other developers on the list. ...maybe with a little more discussion it might be of some use to someone. At least it would be to me. ref: http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/wd_1_03.html (still working on it) regards Georg ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] ADMIN - THREAD CLOSED
I must agree with Felix Miata. Apart from the spam, my inbox typically includes up to a hundred [WSG] items on Monday mornings. I've been trawling through them all day and was finally moved to post a contribution. Then, maybe two list items later, I find that the thread's been summarily closed and I've commited the cardinal sin of posting to a closed thread. I'll have to check ALL the posts before I reply ... next time. John = CAUTION: This message may contain both confidential and privileged information intended only for the addressee named above. If you are not the intended recipient any dissemination, distribution or reproduction of this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error please notify the sender immediately, then destroy the original message. Any views expressed in this message are solely those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of Peregrine Semiconductor Australia. All care has been taken to screen this message and attachments for computer viruses, however, we accept no responsibility for viruses it may contain. Peregrine Semiconductor Australia Pty Ltd 8 Herb Elliott Ave., Homebush Bay 2127. NSW Australia. Ph. +612 9763 4111 Fax. +612 9746 1501 = ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
