[WSG] validator error in stylesheet
In TWiki we have "empty.css". It has /**/ in it. It gives the error: Errors CSS Line: 34 Uncaught error java.lang.Exception: Import loop detected in http://www.bkdesign.ca/pub4/TWiki/PatternSkin/empty.css It's a placeholder for user styles or something. What is better? Bruce Prochnau www.bkdesign.ca
Re: [WSG] Quirks mode vs Standards mode
Foster, Raymond W wrote: Also, IE6's handling of keyword font sizes in standards mode is consistent with other modern browsers. IE6 in quirks mode (and IE 5.5) renders keyword-defined font sizes a step larger than most other browsers. Yes, IE6 handle a few things _differently_ in standard and quirks mode. One line of CSS-corrections may have to be deleted, and maybe another put in. Most differences between Microsoft standard and W3C standard are still present, and we are just handling some of these differences differently in IE6' two modes. Add support for IE5.0 and 5.5 also, and we may have to deal with these differences in several different versions. A smaller number of corrections is usually needed if they are all in the same mode = quirks mode. Still not much standard-support added in IE6' standard mode, so why care about what mode IE6 is in? I have no personal preference here, but I can't see that IE6' mode play a big role when it comes to correcting it. Just compare the following: http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/wd_1_09.html http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/wd_1_09-nocheat.html http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/wd_1_09-nocheat-standard.html ...it's the same - simple - page, with and without IE/win fixes. We will always have to /cheat/ and /fix things/ in order to get IE6 anywhere near standard behavior, and I don't think there's much disagreement about this simple fact. My conclusion is that IE6 just isn't standard in any mode, so no mode-change will really solve anything. :-) regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Standard JS events and properties?
Google is full of post-netscape JS or adopted IE extensions... Where can I find authoritative list of standard (i.e. future-compatible, non-deprecated) JS properties for HTML/CSS manipulation? I'm using W3C DOM and events (I don't care about IE-compatibility), but what about manipilation of elements like select? Should I stick to pure DOM or is select.options, select.selectedIndex the right way? Which way of getting position and size of elements on page is supposed to be the proper one? -- regards, Kornel Lesiski ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Standard JS events and properties?
Kornel Lesinski asked: Where can I find authoritative list of standard (i.e. future-compatible, non-deprecated) JS properties for HTML/CSS manipulation? If you stick to the DOM Core, you can't go wrong. Basically, that means using a small but powerful arsenal of methods and properties like: getElementById getElementsByTagName getAttribute setAttribute, etc. When in doubt, I always go for the standardised DOM way of doing something even if it's more verbose, e.g. I'll use: element.getAttribute(href) instead of: element.href I'm using W3C DOM and events (I don't care about IE-compatibility) Actually, IE has very good DOM support. IE's problem is that it supports too much: it has all those proprietary methods and properties which, even though many of them have been implemented by Mozilla and other browsers, are *not* part of the standardised DOM. innerHTML springs to mind. Should I stick to pure DOM or is select.options, select.selectedIndex the right way? Well, when it comes to the forms object, that isn't going anywhere. It's part of the HTML-DOM which is here to stay. selectedIndex is a good example of a situation where the DOM Core doesn't really offer an alternative. Which way of getting position and size of elements on page is supposed to be the proper one? Ah, the CSS-DOM. A whole other kettle of fish :-) Wherever possible, try to use the style property: element.style.styleProperty The big problem with reading style properties like this is that it only works when the style properties have either been set using JavaScript or using inline styles. In other words, it *won't* pick up styles declared in external stylesheets :-( So, yeah, it is a bit of a jungle out there. Peter Paul Koch has done a lot of research on browser compatibility with various DOM methods (both standard and proprietary). His website is: http://www.quirksmode.org/ -- Jeremy Keith a d a c t i o http://adactio.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility - Site Map Link
I've mentioned this before, but at an awards bash I attended the (blind) compere mentioned above and beyond all considerations of accessibility is the inclusion of a link to the site map page. Many AT (assistive technology) users have a devil of a job deciphering site content relevance, especially when arriving new to a site from a search engine. A (well designed) site map helps enormously. Cheers, Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of russ - maxdesign Sent: 15 April 2005 00:55 To: Web Standards Group Subject: Re: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility Richard, these are all good questions. The best thing to do as actually observe real people (with disabilities) interacting with sites. I have watched blind users and users with severe vision impairment who become frustrated and leave sites very quickly. They are more likely to struggle on if the information is very important or only available at one particular site. When David Woodbridge's was demonstrating a poorly built site to the WSG last year he commented: I am doing this to demonstrate the problems. In real life I would never really go this far into a site this bad, I would have left on the fist page. Think of it in other terms. If there was a shop with major physical barriers (like being forced to climb a ladder just to get into the shop), and the shop keeper was never available, would you hang around long? Compare that to a shop nearby with easy access and friendly staff. Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility - Site Map Link
Mike Did he make any suggestions asto the features a well designed site map should have? -- Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Need a Sydney based web standards contractor? You need my services. Recent projects for Glassonion, Freshweb, Cogentis, Ceneka ... http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts http://bookcrossing.com/referral/neerav Mike Pepper wrote: I've mentioned this before, but at an awards bash I attended the (blind) compere mentioned above and beyond all considerations of accessibility is the inclusion of a link to the site map page. Many AT (assistive technology) users have a devil of a job deciphering site content relevance, especially when arriving new to a site from a search engine. A (well designed) site map helps enormously. Cheers, Mike ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility - Site Map Link
Hi Neerav, No, unfortunately not. My own feeling is to offer sensible page summaries against each link (page) reference. To be honest, I've not looked into this further (other than feeling a bloody idiot that I hadn't made the site map page the first link in the set of skip navs - but we live and, from the experiences of others, learn ;o) ). Even now your question prompts me wonder why on earth I haven't given a site summary at the head of the site map page :-/ -- which I shall now correct :o) Cheers, Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Neerav Sent: 16 April 2005 14:10 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Skip Navigation Visibility - Site Map Link Mike Did he make any suggestions asto the features a well designed site map should have? -- Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Need a Sydney based web standards contractor? You need my services. Recent projects for Glassonion, Freshweb, Cogentis, Ceneka ... http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts http://bookcrossing.com/referral/neerav Mike Pepper wrote: I've mentioned this before, but at an awards bash I attended the (blind) compere mentioned above and beyond all considerations of accessibility is the inclusion of a link to the site map page. Many AT (assistive technology) users have a devil of a job deciphering site content relevance, especially when arriving new to a site from a search engine. A (well designed) site map helps enormously. Cheers, Mike ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.11 - Release Date: 14/04/05 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Subject: Re: [WSG] Quirks mode vs Standards mode
From Georg: I'm asking because after 2 years of studies on the subject, I still haven't found anything useful in IE6' standard mode, but I may have missed something. My first experience with putting IE6 into standards mode involved a simple table-based layout. I had an image followed by a header (tdimg src=logoh1Page Title/h1/td). Everything lined up fine in FF, etc, but IE6 kept putting a gap between the image and text. It looked almost like the 3px jog bug, but since I wasn't using boxes, floats and the like that wasn't it. Turns out I had a malformed doctype (putting IE6 into quirks). Fixing the doctype and putting IE6 into Standards mode fixed the problem. If I recall correctly (it's been almost a year since I built the site) the gap only appeared in IE6, not 5.5, which made it really confusing. Hope that helps Georg. (If you want more detail, email me and I'll try to replicate it at work on Monday.) Tim tjameswhite AT yahoo.com ~ Tim www.tjameswhite.com Get Firefox! http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliatesid=12227t=1 __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Problem with floating heights
By Adam I have specified my site a bit, and used some of your suggestions with making a 1px picture. The address is still www.tres.dk/test I want the #left floating bar to be 100% of the browser window, also when you scroll down !! Any suggestions ! Adam DK ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] multiple columns and 100% height
Sorry, but I'm not near my normal computer for a few days so I can't check the email archives for this. A short while ago somebody wrote an article about achieving 100% height divs when using multiple columns. Their solution was something really simple but for the life of me I can't remember the trick - it was some kind of one line rule...height: ???. But I'm not sure. Does anybody know what I'm talking about and have the link or know the rule? Thanks...v ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Problem with floating heights
Check out Faux Columns: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/fauxcolumns/ Do a google search on faux columns for more info..but a list apart article is a good place to start. -David I want the #left floating bar to be 100% of the browser window, also when you scroll down !! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] multiple columns and 100% height
Also a case for faux columns... http://www.alistapart.com/articles/fauxcolumns/ A short while ago somebody wrote an article about achieving 100% height divs when using multiple columns. Their solution was something really simple but for the life of me I can't remember the trick - it was some kind of one line rule...height: ???. But I'm not sure. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Problem with floating heights
By Adam Thank you David That was exactly what i was looking for ! Good ALA article ! problem solved ! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] multiple columns and 100% height
Fauxcolumns isn't it. Darn, I can't believe I didn't put this link in my read me files... On Apr 16, 2005, at 5:28 PM, David wrote: Also a case for faux columns... http://www.alistapart.com/articles/fauxcolumns/ A short while ago somebody wrote an article about achieving 100% height divs when using multiple columns. Their solution was something really simple but for the life of me I can't remember the trick - it was some kind of one line rule...height: ???. But I'm not sure. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: Subject: Re: [WSG] Quirks mode vs Standards mode
Tim White wrote: ... It looked almost like the 3px jog bug, but since I wasn't using boxes, floats and the like that wasn't it. Thanks Tim. (no further details needed :-) ) Have a few cases in my internal archive that sounds like that one. Some of these cases are solved by changing mode, but that may create the need for more bug-fixing elsewhere in more complex pages. No problem to target such a gap-bug without mode-change though. Not any closer to a real benefit from the IE6 mode-change itself, which is what I'm looking for. I hope Sarah who started this thread have found something useful in it. Myself: I don't think IE6' two modes matter much, although I do find it easier to handle complex pages with IE6 in quirks mode and all the other browsers in real standard mode. Guess that's just me. :-) regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] skip flash intro question
I'm wondering if a site would be more accessible if the flash intro (never mind how it's a bad idea to have a flash intro!) skipped automatically if the viewer had seen the intro before. I'm also wondering if I could detect browser for the sight impaired and skip the intro then too. I'm new to javascript and flash too so any comments (directly is fine) are appreciated. Thanks, Lisa ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] skip flash intro question
Lisa B. McLaughlin wrote: I'm also wondering if I could detect browser for the sight impaired and skip the intro then too. Blind and visually impaired users use the same browsers everybody else uses. JAWS and other screenreaders simply sit on top of the entire OS, so they use standard IE and such. So no, you can't detect them. -- Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: Subject: Re: [WSG] Quirks mode vs Standards mode
Hi Georg Not any closer to a real benefit from the IE6 mode-change itself, which is what I'm looking for. I hope Sarah who started this thread have found something useful in it. Myself: I don't think IE6' two modes matter much, although I do find it easier to handle complex pages with IE6 in quirks mode and all the other browsers in real standard mode. Guess that's just me. :-) I have found the discussions very interesting. But, like you, I am still unclear which option is preferred by the majority. I have used both quirks and standards modes, but tend to use quirks mode more often now. I guess it's easier to stick with one and become familiar with its problems, than to change unnecessarily. I suppose I really just wanted to see what others were doing, and more importantly *why*. Perhaps a poll would be useful here? Sarah -- XERT Communications email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] office: +61 2 4782 3104 mobile: 0438 017 416 http://www.xert.com.au/ web development : digital imaging : dvd production ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] skip flash intro question
I have always used a manual skip intro button on intro flash animations. Maybe flashkit.com would be a better source for finding an auto skip method method. -Kevin ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] device independence
I am only now starting to think about cell phones as a valid medium for veiwing web pages. What are some common pitfalls of building websites with regards to device independence-especially when considering flash? If any meadia in your xhtml doc will degrade to basic html/css sans plug ins are we safe enough? Thanks -Kvnmcwebn ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] what is quirks mode?
Where can i learn more about quirks mode? -Kvnmcwebn ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] skip flash intro question
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi there Lisa! I think you can use the flash accessibility enabled! Check this feature in http://www.macromedia.com/macromedia/accessibility/features/flash/ - -- Atentamente, Jorge Laranjo site http://thetaoofwebdesign.tk/ email [EMAIL PROTECTED] msn [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype jorge.laranjo aim [EMAIL PROTECTED] sapo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Em 16/abr/2005, às 21:58, Lisa B. McLaughlin escreveu: I'm wondering if a site would be more accessible if the flash intro (never mind how it's a bad idea to have a flash intro!) skipped automatically if the viewer had seen the intro before. I'm also wondering if I could detect browser for the sight impaired and skip the intro then too. I'm new to javascript and flash too so any comments (directly is fine) are appreciated. Thanks, Lisa ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (Darwin) iD8DBQFCYaYugPhWLBOYKFQRApukAJ9dhgy6/zyXCG/QCBVAZ36hiEzvfQCgzzCB vXTO5UuOqL2ucGxQ3Mfm8b4= =QQXI -END PGP SIGNATURE- ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] what is quirks mode?
Google * cough * http://www.google.com.au/search?q=quirks+mode leads to results like: http://www.quirksmode.org/css/quirksmode.html -- Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Need a Sydney based web standards contractor? You need my services. Recent projects for Glassonion, Freshweb, Cogentis, Ceneka ... http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts http://bookcrossing.com/referral/neerav Kvnmcwebn wrote: Where can i learn more about quirks mode? -Kvnmcwebn ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] skip flash intro question
I had to do this for a job once and all i used was an anchor in the flash movie and then called the anchor up when sum1 went back to the main page. Hope that helps. -Karl Brightman Jorge Laranjo wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi there Lisa! I think you can use the flash accessibility enabled! Check this feature in http://www.macromedia.com/macromedia/accessibility/features/flash/ - -- Atentamente, Jorge Laranjo site http://thetaoofwebdesign.tk/ email [EMAIL PROTECTED] msn [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype jorge.laranjo aim [EMAIL PROTECTED] sapo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Em 16/abr/2005, às 21:58, Lisa B. McLaughlin escreveu: I'm wondering if a site would be more accessible if the flash intro (never mind how it's a bad idea to have a flash intro!) skipped automatically if the viewer had seen the intro before. I'm also wondering if I could detect browser for the sight impaired and skip the intro then too. I'm new to javascript and flash too so any comments (directly is fine) are appreciated. Thanks, Lisa ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (Darwin) iD8DBQFCYaYugPhWLBOYKFQRApukAJ9dhgy6/zyXCG/QCBVAZ36hiEzvfQCgzzCB vXTO5UuOqL2ucGxQ3Mfm8b4= =QQXI -END PGP SIGNATURE- ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
