Re: [WSG] Firefox bug?
Thanks Georg, Perhaps you are right and I should ignore it. However, it is unsightly, as you can see if you look at the jpg screen grab I've put at: http://www.treyarnon.fsworld.co.uk/wg/FFbug.jpg It happens even if you put the same image in four times, and only affects the second and fourth images. (I've uploaded that file at the same address: http://www.treyarnon.fsworld.co.uk/wg/galleryv2.html Also, just for completion of information, my PC has a 2.6 processor, 1024Mb of memory and the Matrox Millennium 750 card has 128 Mb memory. Not the fastest machine around, but surely should be adequate? Thanks for your help (All) Bob McClelland, Cornwall (U.K.) www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk - Original Message - From: Gunlaug Srtun [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 10:17 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Firefox bug? designer wrote: I have been trying to produce a gallery thing without using a table, and my test file has four images in a vertical column. It all seems fine, except in FF1.0, where the second and fourth images display several dashed lines across the image. http://www.treyarnon.fsworld.co.uk/wg/galleryv2.html Tested on win2K-pro with Matrox Parhelia. Can't see anything wrong -- the same nice images / page in Opera8 and FF1.0. FF may have some problems that sounds like yours on very slow computers with heavy load, and Matrox Parh. is heavy. My PC is ultrafast, so can't test that. Don't think there's anything you can, or should, do about it. However, you may test if the exact height of any of those images have an impact -- almost like rounding-errors -- by interchanging them. regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no http://www.treyarnon.fsworld.co.uk/wg/FFbug.jpg ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Fake Horizontal Frames Layout
Hi Everyone, I'm newer to CSS then I'd like to admit, but I was wondering if it is possible to create a layout that consists of three content areas (Think about a 3-column layout turned 90 degrees). Top Section: - fixed height ~36px Middle Section: - variable height - overflowed to allow verticle scrolling (think about this displaying some reference text that a user needs to read and scroll through) Bottom Section: - fixed height 125px - overflowed to allow for scrolling (although probably not needed) (think about this diplaying a question with possible answers that is in regards to the text that is displayed above) I know this is a strange question, but I want to avoid using a frame here. Thanks in advance for any help... -- Peter J. Farrell :: Maestro Publishing blog:: http://blog.maestropublishing.com email :: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Create boilerplate beans! Check out the Mach-II Bean Creator - free download. http://blog.maestropublishing.com/mach-ii_beaner.htm I've learned that artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity. -- ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Firefox bug?
designer wrote: Perhaps you are right and I should ignore it. However, it is unsightly, as you can see if you look at the jpg screen grab I've put at: http://www.treyarnon.fsworld.co.uk/wg/FFbug.jpg I see, but that's Firefox messing up the /background on top of background/. I couldn't see that first time around. No stripes on the image itself. - Tips: check smooth scrolling in Firefox' Tools. It happens even if you put the same image in four times, and only affects the second and fourth images. (I've uploaded that file at the same address: http://www.treyarnon.fsworld.co.uk/wg/galleryv2.html May change depending on screen/window size, as it looks like it misses something while scrolling past the top and bottom of the window. - Tips: test with another background-combination and see how Firefox behaves. Also, try making background-dimensions independent of content, for simpler and faster calculations. Also, just for completion of information, my PC has a 2.6 processor, 1024Mb of memory and the Matrox Millennium 750 card has 128 Mb memory. Not the fastest machine around, but surely should be adequate? No problem with that one on paper. Should work near perfect if all parts are matching in performance. - Tips: expect a lot of your visitors to have much less speed and power, and test your solutions in all browsers on a more middle of the road computer from time to time. For comparison: http://www.gunlaug.no/contents/main_author_tools.html regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Fake Horizontal Frames Layout
Peter J. Farrell wrote: I'm newer to CSS then I'd like to admit, but I was wondering if it is possible to create a layout that consists of three content areas (Think about a 3-column layout turned 90 degrees). You've got plenty of fun waiting for you up the CSS-road. :-) Something like: http://www.gunlaug.no/tos/moa_8d.html, or http://www.gunlaug.no/tos/moa_8e.html but without sidebars? Check: http://www.fu2k.org/alex/css/frames/ for all the details. regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
OFF LIST - [WSG] Firefox bug?
Hi Again Georg, Interesting. If I do away with the main grey background, and check the 'smooth scrolling' the problem gets worse! See: http://www.treyarnon.fsworld.co.uk/wg/FFbug2.jpg Also, same code, but using a table instead of a nest of divs is fine - no problem: http://www.treyarnon.fsworld.co.uk/wg/participants/rdm/gallery_rdm.html Baffling me! (I went off-list because folk may be getting bored with it :-) Many thanks for your help, Bob Cornwall (U.K.) www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: OFF LIST - [WSG] Firefox bug?
designer wrote: (I went off-list because folk may be getting bored with it :-) Next time you go off list, make sure you're not actually sending it to the list's email address, though... -- Patrick H. Lauke _ redux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: OFF LIST - [WSG] Firefox bug?
Alright, alright. Mutter mutter . . . :-) Bob McClelland, Cornwall (U.K.) www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk - Original Message - From: Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 1:10 PM Subject: Re: OFF LIST - [WSG] Firefox bug? designer wrote: (I went off-list because folk may be getting bored with it :-) Next time you go off list, make sure you're not actually sending it to the list's email address, though... -- Patrick H. Lauke _ redux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] To table or not to table, the form question
I spent an hour on the archives of WSG whether to use the table for form or not, still can't make up my mind. I need to create a complex online order form that look something like this: http://www.melsmarket.com/cgi-bin/orderonline.cgi Haven't start yet but I already imagine it will be a big headache if using CSS, especially copying with the IE, not to mention the tedious code for the float left float right and clear both. Question: how much accessibility will table-based jeopardy for a form like this? Thanks! Tee ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Fake Horizontal Frames Layout
Gunlaug Sørtun wrote: Peter J. Farrell wrote: I'm newer to CSS then I'd like to admit, but I was wondering if it is possible to create a layout that consists of three content areas (Think about a 3-column layout turned 90 degrees). You've got plenty of fun waiting for you up the CSS-road. :-) Something like: http://www.gunlaug.no/tos/moa_8d.html, or http://www.gunlaug.no/tos/moa_8e.html but without sidebars? Check: http://www.fu2k.org/alex/css/frames/ for all the details. regards Georg Thanks Georg, I'll look into it. Seems like it might work More like: http://www.gunlaug.no/tos/moa_8d.html without the sidebars Any idea of the compatibility with which browsers? Thanks again for pointing me in the right direction. -- Peter J. Farrell :: Maestro Publishing blog:: http://blog.maestropublishing.com email :: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Create boilerplate beans! Check out the Mach-II Bean Creator - free download. http://blog.maestropublishing.com/mach-ii_beaner.htm I've learned that I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy it. -- ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] To table or not to table, the form question
On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 21:41:11 +0100, tee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I need to create a complex online order form that look something like
this:
http://www.melsmarket.com/cgi-bin/orderonline.cgi
Haven't start yet but I already imagine it will be a big headache if
using CSS, especially copying with the IE, not to mention the tedious
code for the float left float right and clear both.
There you go:
divinput /label /div
div class=oddinput /label /div
div {float: left; clear: right; width: 49%;}
* html div {clear: both;}
div.odd {float: right; width: 49%;}
h3 {clear: both;}
--
regards, Kornel Lesiski
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
[WSG] To Table or Not To Table for Forms
I've been wondering the same thing as Tee - whether to use the table for form or not, still can't make up my mind. I've been using tables for my forms just because it's fast and easy to align stuff - like a horizontal double or triple-column input design or even putting a text label AFTERa check box or radio button - but I don't want to take "the fast way out" if using tables for my forms is not adhearing to the spirit of web standards or accessibility. I have read elsewhere that using tables for form elements is permissable as it's considered "tabular" data. I'm interested in the group's overall opinion on this subject. Cole
RE: [WSG] To table or not to table, the form question
That a good solution but I think you could simplify it by this :
label
input /
Whatever your term that must appear after your input text box
/label
Where :
label {float: left; clear: none; width: 49%;}
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Kornel Lesinski
Sent: April 30, 2005 16:51
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] To table or not to table, the form question
On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 21:41:11 +0100, tee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I need to create a complex online order form that look something like
this:
http://www.melsmarket.com/cgi-bin/orderonline.cgi
Haven't start yet but I already imagine it will be a big headache if
using CSS, especially copying with the IE, not to mention the tedious
code for the float left float right and clear both.
There you go:
divinput /label /div
div class=oddinput /label /div
div {float: left; clear: right; width: 49%;}
* html div {clear: both;}
div.odd {float: right; width: 49%;}
h3 {clear: both;}
--
regards, Kornel Lesiski
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
[WSG] Semantic tag for copyright slug?
This maybe taking the whole semantic thing too far, but is there a "copywright" tag (not the Meta Tag) that one should use for copyright information? I've searched the web, but can't find one defined other than the meta tag. The use for this would be - frequenlty for my projects - in the footer, where you say "Copyright 2005 - some company, inc. all rights reserved". That kind of thing. I've been enclosing this kind of information in p/p tags for years, but am just wondering if there's a more semantically-appropriate tag to use - like "label/label maybe? Cole
Re: [WSG] To Table or Not To Table for Forms
There is nothing about a form tag that makes it tabular. Many form's just dont fit into neat columns and rows. These days I code elements firstly so they are semantically correct. Then I use CSS to attempt to lay them out as best as I can (with what I know and what I can teach myself from all the online resources). And, as the other parts of this thread show, you can do a HELL of a lot with CSS to layout semantically created forms. After that I will look too using the smallest amounts of _javascript_ to tweak things at runtime. Then (and this is usually when what I am building is an application that just happens to use a browser) I will go to using larger amounts of _javascript_ - but then I am usually in control of the end platform and can restrict the browser appropriately (be it IE or Firefox - for example). The data that is collected by a form tag may have a consistent schema to it (such as name, address, phone) which is stored in a database as a collection of like objects (what we usually call a table) - but even that does not justify a form as being tabular data. What constitutes tabular data is when you want to display such a collection of like objects (which may or may not come from a database table) in a manner that can be considered, semantically, tabular. Or when you clearly are working with items that semantically are a grid ( e.g. a spreadhseet, or a even a complex report of some kind). We (and I do it too - but I think it is very lazy) have always just thought of forms on the web as just being a set of labels and fields rolling down the screen (because that was all that was ever possible). Whereas the print world (and just about everyone else) things of forms as information placed as clumps on the page that make sense to be grouped together. So we should be embracing that view now that we have CSS to help us lay things out (although it is still not perfect). Semantically (i.e. the meaning attached to the tag actually representing what the tag is actually doing) a form is exactly that (something that contains tags that will collect data). This then generally implies that you would find label (something to give the user feedback on what information was being requested) and input/select/textarea (places to put the data - my own personal opinion being that we should only have an input tag with attributes to tell it how to behave OR that the input tag should only be for text and not for type=radio or type=checbox as these are semantically different elements). That said, the next question may be What about tabular data that you want to input as a result of a parent/child relationship?. My answer to that is that HTML/XHTML is lackingany suitable construct to achieve this ( i.e. there needs to be some type of tabular entry element in the specification that allows such data entry for a form). So, in this case, (i.e. to visually layout some fields in a form that need to accept data in a tabular way - yes it is a table). And, with all that said, it's only just my opinion (gleaned from all the available information on the semantic approach to markup). But, when the chips are down and you have to deliver, you do what works. Regards, Gary Menzel On 5/1/05, Cole Kuryakin - x7m [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been wondering the same thing as Tee - whether to use the table for form or not, still can't make up my mind. I've been using tables for my forms just because it's fast and easy to align stuff - like a horizontal double or triple-column input design or even putting a text label AFTERa check box or radio button - but I don't want to take the fast way out if using tables for my forms is not adhearing to the spirit of web standards or accessibility. I have read elsewhere that using tables for form elements is permissable as it's considered tabular data. I'm interested in the group's overall opinion on this subject. Cole
Re: [WSG] Semantic tag for copyright slug?
Hi Cole Label is a form field tag... it can't be used outside of a form. (well it can but you'll have invalid html according to the w3c) http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/forms/label.html The issue here is how far you go with your semantics. Do we have a tag for trademark, registered mark, service mark?. To all intents and purposes it's a paragraph or phrase of text on the page. Cheers James On 4/30/05, Cole Kuryakin - x7m [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This maybe taking the whole semantic thing too far, but is there a copywright tag (not the Meta Tag) that one should use for copyright information? I've searched the web, but can't find one defined other than the meta tag. The use for this would be - frequenlty for my projects - in the footer, where you say Copyright 2005 - some company, inc. all rights reserved. That kind of thing. I've been enclosing this kind of information in p/p tags for years, but am just wondering if there's a more semantically-appropriate tag to use - like label/label maybe? Cole ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Semantic tag for copyright slug?
James - Thanks for the reply as well as the clarification about the Label tag. I'll continue using p's for copyright info. Cole - Original Message - From: James Ellis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 1:02 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Semantic tag for copyright slug? Hi Cole Label is a form field tag... it can't be used outside of a form. (well it can but you'll have invalid html according to the w3c) http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/forms/label.html The issue here is how far you go with your semantics. Do we have a tag for trademark, registered mark, service mark?. To all intents and purposes it's a paragraph or phrase of text on the page. Cheers James On 4/30/05, Cole Kuryakin - x7m [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This maybe taking the whole semantic thing too far, but is there a copywright tag (not the Meta Tag) that one should use for copyright information? I've searched the web, but can't find one defined other than the meta tag. The use for this would be - frequenlty for my projects - in the footer, where you say Copyright 2005 - some company, inc. all rights reserved. That kind of thing. I've been enclosing this kind of information in p/p tags for years, but am just wondering if there's a more semantically-appropriate tag to use - like label/label maybe? Cole ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
