Re: [WSG CORE] RE: 'users with disabilities' WAS: [WSG] New front page for http: //ab c.net.au/

[Vicki Berry]

James Ellis wrote:
> I think "John", "Betty", "Steve" or "Jane" are always more preferable
> labels, if my drift is seen ;), otherwise, the person tends to become
> the label in societal eyes.
[snip]
> The moral for us? Accessibility is for everyone, not just for a group
> deemed "disabled"... and politics sometimes gets in the way).

That's all really well said, James. IMO that's it, in a nutshell.

Funny we should have been talking about this cos my cousin, whose 
daughter has Autism and who is working really hard to form a support 
organisation for parents of newly-diagnosed children with Autism, just 
wrote to me after I'd asked about her use of an upper-case A for the 
word Autism. I thought I'd quote here for those who are interested in 
this discussion and in being "politically correct" in their 
accessibility terminology:

"Officially, it is a capital letter "A" because it's a label, like Mr or
Mrs etc.  There are so many politics with Autism.  Like we are not
supposed to say Autistic children, we are supposed to say Children with
Autism.  The reasoning for that one is they are children first."

(I should add that this is in Australia since there are clearly 
international variations in terminology.)

Vicki.  :-)

-- 
Vicki Berry
DistinctiveWeb
http://www.distinctiveweb.com.au
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Re: [WSG] Editor Controls

[development]

www.xstandard.com they 
are very serious about standars =) even got some firefox/mozilla behavior 
modified to allow better compatibility with their editor

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Tatham Oddie (Fuel Advance) 
  
  To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org 
  Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 1:08 
  AM
  Subject: [WSG] Editor Controls
  
  
  Hi 
  all,
   
  I’m 
  looking for some advice on editor controls (like JS controls) for a CMS type 
  ‘thing’ I’m building.
   
  Basically, it needs to be a rich edit control that’s 
  simple for users to use.
   
  However:
   
  
Must produce 
XHTML 
Must only produce p, ul, ol, li, a, 
img, code, dl, dt, dd, strong, em, del 
Must only allow the user to format 
by 

  bold = 
   
  italics = 
   
  strike =  
  or a selection of classnames that I 
  specify in the configuration 
Must allow embedding of 
images 
Could allow upload of 
images 
   
  Any 
  ideas?
   
  Most of the controls out there seems to generate 
  crappy HTML4 then hack it across to something that’s mostly XHTML. If I cant 
  find one, I’ll probably start writing one then make it open source down the 
  track, however I don’t really have that much time to wait for 
  it.
   
   
   
  Thanks,
   
  Tatham 
  Oddie
  Fuel 
  Advance - Ignite Your Idea
  www.fueladvance.com
   

Re: [WSG] Editor Controls

[Joshua Street]

On Sun, 2005-08-07 at 15:08 +1000, Tatham Oddie (Fuel Advance) wrote:
> Hi all,
> I’m looking for some advice on editor controls (like JS controls) for
> a CMS type ‘thing’ I’m building.

First off, I'm foreseeing an admin saying this should be on the CMS list
instead...

> Any ideas?

... but yes, since you asked, I've got an idea.

Matt Mullenweg of the WordPress project announced a few days ago
( http://photomatt.net/2005/08/05/wysi/ ) they were planning to
integrate the TinyMCE Javascript WYSIWYG editor
( http://tinymce.moxiecode.com/ ).

I'm assuming they've got that working in full XHTML happiness, given the
general history of that project (WordPress, that is) in terms of
adherence to validation (semantically always been pretty good, too)...
but, until that comes out (version 1.6, probably a few months still),
this post on the TinyMCE forum
( http://tinymce.moxiecode.com/punbb/viewtopic.php?id=27 ) appears to be
the best guide to making it spit out nice code.  I think.  I haven't
actually tried it yet, though.

> Most of the controls out there seems to generate crappy HTML4 then
> hack it across to something that’s mostly XHTML. If I cant find one,
> I’ll probably start writing one then make it open source down the
> track, however I don’t really have that much time to wait for it.

This may be doing the same thing, I'm uncertain.

Kind Regards,
Joshua Street

base10solutions
Website:
http://www.base10solutions.com.au/
Phone: (02) 9898-0060  Fax: (02)
8572-6021
Mobile: 0425 808 469

Multimedia  Development  Agency



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[WSG] Editor Controls

[Tatham Oddie \(Fuel Advance\)]

Hi
all,

 

I’m
looking for some advice on editor controls (like JS controls) for a CMS type ‘thing’
I’m building.

 

Basically,
it needs to be a rich edit control that’s simple for users to use.

 

However:

 


 Must produce XHTML
 Must only produce p, ul, ol, li, a, img, code,
 dl, dt, dd, strong, em, del
 Must only allow the user to format by
 
  bold = 
  italics = 
  strike = 
  or a selection of classnames
  that I specify in the configuration
 
 Must allow embedding of images
 Could allow upload of images


 

Any
ideas?

 

Most
of the controls out there seems to generate crappy HTML4 then hack it across to
something that’s mostly XHTML. If I cant find one, I’ll probably
start writing one then make it open source down the track, however I don’t
really have that much time to wait for it.

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

Tatham Oddie

Fuel Advance - Ignite Your Idea

www.fueladvance.com

 

Re: [WSG] list-style-image in horizonal menu

[Terrence Wood]

In fact, you could put the background image in the anchor to achieve a 
rollover affect by adjusting the background position, or changing the 
the image.


Here's a good article on single background images and positioning:

http://superfluousbanter.org/archives/2004/05/navigation_matr.php

kind regards
Terrence Wood.

On 7 Aug 2005, at 11:23 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Goodevening All,

I have a slight problem. I can't seem to get the list-style-image to 
work, which is part of a unordered list set to display inline in a 
horizonal menu bar.

On 7 Aug 2005, at 1:16 PM, russ - maxdesign wrote:

I agree with Patrick - I'd use background-image instead of 
list-style-image

as you have far more control over the placement of the image using the
background-position property.

Russ



Alternatively, you could try and add left-hand padding and place the
star as a non-repeating background image



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Re: [WSG] list-style-image in horizonal menu

[Patrick H. Lauke]

Terrence Wood wrote:


display:inline prevents your bullet from displaying.

Try float:left; and adjust your margins to suit.


Alternatively, you could try and add left-hand padding and place the 
star as a non-repeating background image


#topnav ul li {
display: inline;
padding-left: 30px;
background: url(../images/star.gif) no-repeat left center;
line-height: 30px;
}

--
Patrick H. Lauke
__
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
__
Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/
__

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Re: [WSG] list-style-image in horizonal menu

[russ - maxdesign]

I agree with Patrick - I'd use background-image instead of list-style-image
as you have far more control over the placement of the image using the
background-position property.

Russ


> Alternatively, you could try and add left-hand padding and place the
> star as a non-repeating background image


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Re: [WSG] list-style-image in horizonal menu

[Terrence Wood]

On 7 Aug 2005, at 11:23 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


#topnav ul li
{display: inline;
  list-style-image: url(../images/star.gif);
  line-height: 30px;}



display:inline prevents your bullet from displaying.

Try float:left; and adjust your margins to suit.

kind regards
Terrence Wood.

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[WSG] list-style-image in horizonal menu

[standards]

Goodevening All,

I have a slight problem. I can't seem to get the list-style-image to work, 
which is part of a
unordered list set to display inline in a horizonal menu bar. I've reviewed my 
books, The CSS
Anthology and Web Standards Solutions, but I must be missing something 
therefore any advice or
suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

CSS:

#topnav
{font: bold 12px "trebuchet ms", serif;
  text-align: center;
  text-transform: uppercase;
  border-top: 1px solid #fff;
  border-bottom: 1px solid #000;
  background-color: #00563E;}

#topnav ul
{margin: 0;
  padding: 0;}

#topnav ul li
{display: inline;
  list-style-image: url(../images/star.gif);
  line-height: 30px;}

#topnav a:link, #topnav a:active , #topnav a:visited
{color: #fff;
  padding: 5px 20px 5px 15px;
  text-decoration: none;
  border-right: 1px solid #B8C5BD;}

#topnav a:hover
{color: #B8C5BD;
  text-decoration: underline;}

Respectfully yours,
Mario S. Cisneros


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Re: [WSG] Form labels - What is correct usage?

[Terrence Wood]

This question was discussed recently on this list:

http://www.mail-archive.com/wsg%40webstandardsgroup.org/msg19456.html


kind regards
Terrence Wood.


On 6 Aug 2005, at 8:48 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hoping some of you may help with a question that I frequently see 
implemented
differently? Should the form 'label' element () wrap 
around the
form elements that they are a label for (almost like a container), or 
should

they be left on their own?


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Re: [WSG] a:hover delayed

[Terrence Wood]

I didn't see the problem... maybe the tool tips appearing contribute to 
the *perception* that the hover effect is slow?


kind regards
Terrence Wood.

On 6 Aug 2005, at 5:19 PM, José de Jesús Sanchez Betanzos wrote:


Hi, I'm jesus.

Look how the a:hover effect in the following menu make the browser 
slow...

http://www.jesusbet.net/tmp/sp/

I wanted to do something like the menu on the web standards group 
homepage:

http://webstandardsgroup.org/


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Re: [WSG] Form labels - What is correct usage?

[David Hucklesby]

On Sat, 6 Aug 2005 Nathan wrote:

> ... Should the form 'label' element
> () wrap around the form elements that they are a
> label for (almost like a container), or should they be left on
> their own? I have seen some keep the form labels separate from say
> a input field, but then wrapped around multiple elements, like say
> radio buttons.
>

Well, Nathan, I don't claim to know which is "semantically correct",
but I use both wrapping and non-wrapping, depending on what I want
to do. In either case, though, I discovered long ago that the "for"
attribute is needed for some browsers to associate the label with
the form element so that it is "clickable".

For text input boxes, with labels lined up to the left, I use a label
followed by the input. I can then float the label left with a specific
width to align all labels.

For radio buttons, on the other hand, I put the label on the right
and wrap it around the button. I can then apply a hover effect to
the background of the entire label/button combination to indicate
that the label is "clickable".

I also add a focus behavior to the label for those who, like me,
tend to use the keyboard for navigating forms.

Cordially,
David
--
David Hucklesby, on 8/6/2005

--


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Re: [WSG] firefox for OS9?

[Kay Smoljak]

On 8/6/05, Drake, Ted C. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Sorry for a possibly off-topic post.  We have a client on our intranet that
> needs to look at our site on OS9.2.  I couldn't find information on the
> Firefox web site about compatibility with this platform. Does anyone know
> where I could send this person for more advice?

I had a client with OS9 who were using Netscape 4 (!), and I got them
to upgrade to Netscape 7. The later builds don't support OS9, but
earlier ones do, so if you look around you should be able to find one.

-- 
Kay Smoljak
http://kay.smoljak.com/
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Re: [WSG] standards form?

[Svip]

I wouldn't suggest doing a single multi-porpuse form, as it would
simply just confuse people using the website.

Split them up. Though I am not quite sure what your question is.

Svip - sviip.dk

On 06/08/05, Jad Madi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm working on multi purpose form, registration and purchase
> so it become so boring form, while I was trying to have simple form,
> and excited process of registration and purchase
> please if you have any suggestion let me know, I'm having headache
> because of this form
> 
> 
> 
> ## Personal information ##
> first name
> Middle name
> sure name
> 
> ## Contact Information ##
> Country
> City
> State
> Street
> Zip code
> Phone number
> Fax number
> Email address
> 
> ## Billing information ###
> Credit card type
> Credit number
> Expire date
> CVV2
> Billing address
> Name on card
> 
> ## Account Package information ##
> username
> password
> Package
> Domain name
> 
> 
> --
> Regards
> Jad madi
> Personal Blogger
> http://EasyHTTP.com/jad/
> Web standards Planet
> http://w3planet.info/site/
> EasyHTTP Network
> http://EasyHTTP.com
> **
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> 
>
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[WSG] standards form?

[Jad Madi]

Hi, 
I'm working on multi purpose form, registration and purchase 
so it become so boring form, while I was trying to have simple form,
and excited process of registration and purchase
please if you have any suggestion let me know, I'm having headache
because of this form



## Personal information ##
first name
Middle name
sure name 

## Contact Information ##
Country 
City
State
Street 
Zip code
Phone number
Fax number
Email address

## Billing information ###
Credit card type
Credit number
Expire date
CVV2
Billing address
Name on card

## Account Package information ## 
username 
password 
Package
Domain name 


-- 
Regards
Jad madi
Personal Blogger
http://EasyHTTP.com/jad/
Web standards Planet 
http://w3planet.info/site/
EasyHTTP Network
http://EasyHTTP.com
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Re: [WSG] a:hover delayed

[José de Jesús Sanchez Betanzos]

Hi, thanks for your answers.

May be you didn't see the problem because your RAM speed is very fast,
I don't see the problem when I am using a PC with 1.5GB of RAM speed,
but my PC has 512MB of speed...

I'm so thankful for your help...

Re: [WSG] a:hover delayed

[David Laakso]

José de Jesús Sanchez Betanzos wrote:


Hi, I'm jesus.
Look how the a:hover effect in the following menu make the browser slow...
http://www.jesusbet.net/tmp/sp/
I wanted to do something like the menu on the web standards group 
homepage:

http://webstandardsgroup.org/
And I did it, but when you browse the menu using Internet Explorer,it 
makes the browser slow...


Jesus,
I did not see the problem you describe in XP_SP2 IE6.0.
Trivial pursuits: You may want to consider using relative font-sizes so 
that IE users will be able to zoom the fonts. I noticed also, you 
specified justified at one point-- hot-metal typographers avoid setting 
unserifed fonts justified as if it was a plague; and serif fonts when 
set justified for the Web are prone to white acne and pigs 
bristles(lakes and rivers).

Regards,
David Laakso

--
David Laakso
http://www.dlaakso.com/


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Re: [WSG] a:hover delayed

[Zachary Hopkins]

I tested the page in both Internet Explore 6 & 7.
I do not see any signs that the browser is "slow", nor any evidence of 
flickering.


--Zachary

José de Jesús Sanchez Betanzos wrote:


Hi, I'm jesus.

Look how the a:hover effect in the following menu make the browser slow...
http://www.jesusbet.net/tmp/sp/

I wanted to do something like the menu on the web standards group 
homepage:

http://webstandardsgroup.org/

And I did it, but when you browse the menu using Internet Explorer,it 
makes the browser slow...


I was checking my code and it looks the same as the CSS code in 
cssbeauty menu... but i couldn't fix it...


Thanks for your help... (and sorry for my english :D)



--
==
"The best way to predict the future is to invent it."

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.hopkinsprogramming.net

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Re: [WSG] Form labels - What is correct usage?

[taka1112]

We might think implicit labels (LABEL - WRAPPING) as
a transitional markup :-)

In HTML Techniques fo WCAG 2.0 (status: WD),
explicit labels are favorable, and implicit labels are 'deprecated', 
said "do not use the label element implicitly." 
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-HTML-TECHS/#label


I think this is a good judgment for semantic markup.

T. Mashiko
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [WSG] Form labels - What is correct usage?

[leenath1]

I think your first sample (LABEL - NOT WRAPPING)
is favorable for semantic markup.
Because it shows 'directly connection.'

WCAG 1.0 needs to "associate labels explicitly with
their controls", that is, "in HTML use LABEL and its 'for'
attribute" as priority 2. http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/#gl-complex-elements



Thanks for your reply, but now Im confused. Have a look at the example here: 
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-HTML-TECHS/#forms-grouping and now just a little 
later down the page there is this example: 
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-HTML-TECHS/#forms-labels which shows a different 
technique for using labels. 



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Re: [WSG] Form labels - What is correct usage?

[taka1112]

Hello.

I think your first sample (LABEL - NOT WRAPPING)
is favorable for semantic markup.
Because it shows 'directly connection.'

Label element doesn't exist as a container (e.g., fieldset),
and should be related to a control individually.

WCAG 1.0 needs to "associate labels explicitly with
their controls", that is, "in HTML use LABEL and its 'for'
attribute" as priority 2. 
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/#gl-complex-elements


T. Mashiko
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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[WSG] Form labels - What is correct usage?

[leenath1]

Hoping some of you may help with a question that I 
frequently see implemented differently? Should the form 'label' element 
() wrap around the form elements that they are a 
label for (almost like a container), or should they be left on their own? I have 
seen some keep the form labels separate from say a input field, but then wrapped 
around multiple elements, like say radio buttons. 
 
I hope I am making myself clear? For example: 

 
LABEL - NOT WRAPPING:
  Rate this 
example      
1  
2  
3  
4  
5    

 

LABEL - WRAPPING:
  Rate this 
example
    
  
1  
2  
3  
4  
5    

  
I assume the first example provides for more 
power/control over the design/positioning of a label, but I guess my question is 
about semantic correctness rather than the best option for presentation (CSS) 
control.
 
Regards
 
Nathan
 
 
 

Re: [WSG CORE] RE: 'users with disabilities' WAS: [WSG] New front page for http: //ab c.net.au/

[James Ellis]

Hi

I think "John", "Betty", "Steve" or "Jane" are always more preferable
labels, if my drift is seen ;), otherwise, the person tends to become
the label in societal eyes.

Interestingly, "dis" comes from the latin and can mean "absence",
"bad" or similar. See: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=dis-
http://www.answers.com/topic/dis-prefix?method=6
definitely a negative prefix.

So, disability could literally mean bad ability or an abscence of
ability. Well, everyone has this in some form or another : lack of a
sense (smelling, hearing... whatever), someone with their blinkers on,
someone with selective hearing etc etc.

The moral for us? Accessibility is for everyone, not just for a group
deemed "disabled"... and politics sometimes gets in the way).

HTH
James
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