Re: [WSG] Behavior Effecting Presentation or Structure - Precedence?
Frank Palinkas wrote: Am I correct in thinking that behavior should target structure first, and if necessary, presentation second? Frank, when you have a choice I don't think it matters which one you choose. But this raises another question I'd like to ask...take these situations: a) the user agent has Javascript that doesn't support the DOM (but has CSS enabled) b) the user agent is Javascript enabled and not CSS enabled how common is a) (maybe not on the desktop but what about other devices?) and does b) actually exist out there? If so, then I'm not sure there's ever really a choice. e.g. in your example you would need to use both methods to cover a) and b): a) would need you to set the style to display: none and b) would need you to try and remove the node -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Behavior Effecting Presentation or Structure - Precedence?
Hi Chris, Thanks for the reply. As you illustrate, trying to be definitive in this situation seems pretty much impossible. It's appreciated. Kind regards, Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Knowles Sent: Monday, 07 January, 2008 9:54 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Behavior Effecting Presentation or Structure - Precedence? Frank Palinkas wrote: Am I correct in thinking that behavior should target structure first, and if necessary, presentation second? Frank, when you have a choice I don't think it matters which one you choose. But this raises another question I'd like to ask...take these situations: a) the user agent has Javascript that doesn't support the DOM (but has CSS enabled) b) the user agent is Javascript enabled and not CSS enabled how common is a) (maybe not on the desktop but what about other devices?) and does b) actually exist out there? If so, then I'm not sure there's ever really a choice. e.g. in your example you would need to use both methods to cover a) and b): a) would need you to set the style to display: none and b) would need you to try and remove the node -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Behavior Effecting Presentation or Structure - Precedence?
This is way above me but isn't that what the below method does? http://www.bobbyvandersluis.com/ufo/ if so how does he do it? it seems to be the savy solution hope my reply is relevant -kevin *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Behavior Effecting Presentation or Structure - Precedence?
Hi Kevin, and thanks. I think I've found a simpler way to handle this. Please see my next reply to Chris Knowles. Kind regards, Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of kevin mcmonagle Sent: Monday, 07 January, 2008 10:57 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Behavior Effecting Presentation or Structure - Precedence? This is way above me but isn't that what the below method does? http://www.bobbyvandersluis.com/ufo/ if so how does he do it? it seems to be the savy solution hope my reply is relevant -kevin *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Behavior Effecting Presentation or Structure - Precedence?
Hi Chris,
(My apologies to the list moderators if this is getting to Behavior orientated.)
If so, then I'm not sure there's ever really a choice. e.g. in your
example you would need to use both methods to cover a) and b):
a) would need you to set the style to display: none
and b) would need you to try and remove the node
I don't know if this will satisfy the conditions you raised, but combining the
two methods with an if else statement may make sense:
/*
function remove()
{
if (remove)
{
var div = document.getElementById(remove);
div.parentNode.removeChild(div);
}
else
{
document.getElementById(remove).style.display = none;
}
}
*/
Kind regards,
Frank
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[WSG] Joomla question
Hi everybody, I'm familiarising myself with Joomla. The basics, I understand and can manage. What I find very difficult to understand is how sections, categories and modules work and interact. Also the various template layouts. I mean, the blog format, etc. (Not the actual html layout itself.) I got some good books to help me, but those topics aren't covered in depth. Can anyone recommend a good book or (preferably) online tutorial? What I find is mainly very basic stuff. Nothing at all about why using sections, categories, how the two interact and that sort of thing. -- Best regards, Jos mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
ADMIN THREAD CLOSED Re: [WSG] Joomla question
Sorry, Jos, this is off topic for this list. Everyone, if you have a response for Jos please send it off list. Jos, you might want to search for Joomla forums :) Lea -- Lea de Groot WSG Core Member On Mon, 7 Jan 2008 17:12:33 +0700, Jos Flachs wrote: I'm familiarising myself with Joomla. The basics, I understand and can manage. What I find very difficult to understand is how sections, categories and modules work and interact. Also the various template layouts. I mean, the blog format, etc. (Not the actual html layout itself.) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: WSG Digest
The way I see your scenario is that you are activating a div element which
should be displayed when there is an absence of JavaScript, but you are
trying to check whether
or not the JavaScript is enabled by using JavaScript.
This is the same approach of cutting the same branch on which you are
actually standing.
Do let me know, if I have understood the problem as intended? If I have
understood it in a wrong way, I take back all my words, if not then you
should be checking the existence of JavaScript not by using JavaScript but
by using some server based technology.
Regards,
Salman, Khwaja.
On Mon, 07 Jan 2008 16:52:32 1100, wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote:
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From: Frank Palinkas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 07:44:07 +0200
Subject: Behavior Effecting Presentation or Structure - Precedence?
Hi All,
I hope everyone has had a pleasant, restful and blessed holiday.
May I pose a question regarding the Behavior layer with its intended
effect
on presentation or structure? I'm looking for an answer according to best
practice and standards, as to which layer should we target to achieve a
des
ired effect.
Scenario:
I have a div whose contents are only to be seen when scripting is not
avail
able (I don't employ the noscript element). The div is given an id
attribut
e and value (remove) acting as a hook to an external javascript function
which performs the intended behavior. So far, so good. The function can
aff
ect either the style or the structure of the div and its contents. Both
app
roaches work equally well. My question is which is the preferred/correct
la
yer to target when we have a choice? The functions are exhibited below:
// - behavior affects the presentation layer
function remove1()
{
document.getElementById(remove).style.display = none;
}
/
/ - behavior affects the structure layer
function remove2()
{
var div = document.getElementById(remove);
div.parentNode.removeChild(div);
}
/
Am I correct in thinking that behavior should target structure first, and
i
f necessary, presentation second?
Kind regards,
Frank M. Palinkas
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--
-
Salman, Khwaja.
Snr. QA Engineer
TPS Pakistan.
Http://www.TPSOnline.com
Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes
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Re: [WSG] Behavior Effecting Presentation or Structure - Precedence?
Frank Palinkas wrote:
function remove()
{
if (remove)
{
var div = document.getElementById(remove);
div.parentNode.removeChild(div);
}
else
{
document.getElementById(remove).style.display = none;
}
}
Frank,
try this...
if (typeof document.removeChild != undefined) {
var div = document.getElementById(remove);
div.parentNode.removeChild(div);
} else {
document.getElementById(remove).style.display = none;
}
if you're doing a lot of checking throughout your code though set a
global flag...
var DOM = document.getElementById ? true : false;
and then...
if (DOM) {
...
}
email me direct if you want to discuss as it's probably off topic by now.
--
Chris Knowles
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RE: [WSG] Behavior Effecting Presentation or Structure - Precedence?
Brilliant! Thank you Chris.
Frank,
try this...
if (typeof document.removeChild != undefined) {
var div = document.getElementById(remove);
div.parentNode.removeChild(div);
} else {
document.getElementById(remove).style.display = none;
}
if you're doing a lot of checking throughout your code though set a
global flag...
var DOM = document.getElementById ? true : false;
and then...
if (DOM) {
...
}
email me direct if you want to discuss as it's probably off topic by now.
--
Chris Knowles
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Re: [WSG] Behavior Effecting Presentation or Structure - Precedence?
Heloo
Can any boy help out wid this problem.
the problem is when my dropdown menu r any frams r over the combobos, det
frams r visible under the combobox..
please give me d solution for dis ASAp
Thank u..
On Jan 7, 2008 5:37 PM, Frank Palinkas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Brilliant! Thank you Chris.
Frank,
try this...
if (typeof document.removeChild != undefined) {
var div = document.getElementById(remove);
div.parentNode.removeChild(div);
} else {
document.getElementById(remove).style.display = none;
}
if you're doing a lot of checking throughout your code though set a
global flag...
var DOM = document.getElementById ? true : false;
and then...
if (DOM) {
...
}
email me direct if you want to discuss as it's probably off topic by now.
--
Chris Knowles
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[WSG] Float-less layouts
My apologies for cross-posting. I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this article: http://tjkdesign.com/articles/float-less_css_layouts.asp Demo: http://tjkdesign.com/articles/css-layout/no_div_no_float_no_clear_no_hack_no _joke.asp -- Regards, Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Float-less layouts
From: Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] My apologies for cross-posting. I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this article: http://tjkdesign.com/articles/float-less_css_layouts.asp Demo: http://tjkdesign.com/articles/css-layout/no_div_no_float_no_clear_no_hack_no _joke.asp I'll cross-post, too - since I really like the essence of your approach, though I'm not fully sold on the lists. My opinion notwithstanding, that's a very industrious piece of work. Interestingly, I played with something like that for a Page Pack last year. We just used DIVs, however. The reason we've not felt good releasing it was because of Dreamweaver's inability to render it. Of course, many people on this list probably are not as obsessed with Dreamweaver rendering as on the Adobe forum. Perhaps if your exercise gets a good response (on Adobe's forum), we can reconsider :-) Here is our little exercise, with just non-floated DIVs: http://www.projectseven.com/products/staging/float_not/ -- Al Sparber - PVII http://www.projectseven.com Extending Dreamweaver - Nav Systems | Galleries | Widgets Authors: 42nd Street: Mastering the Art of CSS Design *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Float-less layouts
A little history relating to floating-box layouts: http://jp29.org/floatbox.htm James Pickering http://jp29.org/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Float-less layouts
My apologies for cross-posting.
I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this article:
http://tjkdesign.com/articles/float-less_css_layouts.asp
Demo:
http://tjkdesign.com/articles/css-
layout/no_div_no_float_no_clear_no_hack_no
_joke.asp
I'll cross-post, too - since I really like the essence of your
approach,
though I'm not fully sold on the lists.
The use of lists is not that serious. It was mostly to make the title of
the article more attractive ;)
not felt good releasing it was because of Dreamweaver's inability to
render
it. Of course, many people on this list probably are not as obsessed
with
Dreamweaver rendering as on the Adobe forum. Perhaps if your exercise
gets a
good response (on Adobe's forum), we can reconsider :-)
Dreamweaver users may use a design-time style sheet to make the layout
behave as a float construct.
For example, with my layout they could use the following:
#s1,#s2,#s3 {float:left;overflow:hidden;border:0;}
#ft {clear:left;}
--
Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] Float-less layouts
Does your approach deal with any column any order? Is this a possibility?
Karl
On Jan 8, 2008 6:15 AM, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My apologies for cross-posting.
I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this article:
http://tjkdesign.com/articles/float-less_css_layouts.asp
Demo:
http://tjkdesign.com/articles/css-
layout/no_div_no_float_no_clear_no_hack_no
_joke.asp
I'll cross-post, too - since I really like the essence of your
approach,
though I'm not fully sold on the lists.
The use of lists is not that serious. It was mostly to make the title of
the article more attractive ;)
not felt good releasing it was because of Dreamweaver's inability to
render
it. Of course, many people on this list probably are not as obsessed
with
Dreamweaver rendering as on the Adobe forum. Perhaps if your exercise
gets a
good response (on Adobe's forum), we can reconsider :-)
Dreamweaver users may use a design-time style sheet to make the layout
behave as a float construct.
For example, with my layout they could use the following:
#s1,#s2,#s3 {float:left;overflow:hidden;border:0;}
#ft {clear:left;}
--
Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [WSG] Float-less layouts
OOps sorry, read your demo page and it doesn't. Sure, your visual
tabbing might not be the same, but for semantics and SEO, I think its
fairly important to have major content ahead of secondary content in
source-order. I think it makes it much easier for screen-readers too.
Have you tried to explore the possibility of changing the visual
layout of the columns? Perhaps with negative margins similar to how
its done with floats?
Karl
On Jan 8, 2008 9:24 AM, Karl Lurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Does your approach deal with any column any order? Is this a possibility?
Karl
On Jan 8, 2008 6:15 AM, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My apologies for cross-posting.
I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this article:
http://tjkdesign.com/articles/float-less_css_layouts.asp
Demo:
http://tjkdesign.com/articles/css-
layout/no_div_no_float_no_clear_no_hack_no
_joke.asp
I'll cross-post, too - since I really like the essence of your
approach,
though I'm not fully sold on the lists.
The use of lists is not that serious. It was mostly to make the title of
the article more attractive ;)
not felt good releasing it was because of Dreamweaver's inability to
render
it. Of course, many people on this list probably are not as obsessed
with
Dreamweaver rendering as on the Adobe forum. Perhaps if your exercise
gets a
good response (on Adobe's forum), we can reconsider :-)
Dreamweaver users may use a design-time style sheet to make the layout
behave as a float construct.
For example, with my layout they could use the following:
#s1,#s2,#s3 {float:left;overflow:hidden;border:0;}
#ft {clear:left;}
--
Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com
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RE: [WSG] Float-less layouts
Does your approach deal with any column any order? Is this a possibility? Hi Karl, As it says on this page [1]: The sequence of the columns depends on the source order... As far as I know, display:table doesn't let us play with columns the same way we can do with floats. [1] http://tjkdesign.com/articles/css-layout/no_div_no_float_no_clear_no_hack_no _joke.asp -- Regards, Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Float-less layouts
OOps sorry, read your demo page and it doesn't. Sure, your visual tabbing might not be the same, which can be confusing ;-) but for semantics and SEO, I think its fairly important to have major content ahead of secondary content in source-order. I don't know. In my 5+ years old web site content comes *last*, but still major SE index my articles very well. I think it makes it much easier for screen-readers too. Why? If skip links are properly implemented I don't see the advantage for these users. Have you tried to explore the possibility of changing the visual layout of the columns? Perhaps with negative margins similar to how its done with floats? I gave it a quick try, but I didn't really spend much time on this as I'm not a fan of cheating with the visual flow. -- Regards, Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Float-less layouts
From: Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] I gave it a quick try, but I didn't really spend much time on this as I'm not a fan of cheating with the visual flow. I agree. Skip to links would be the solution. Layout is difficult enough with the existing standards, but source ordering is, in my opinion, largely a wasted effort. If a web designer feels it important to have the main content come first, then that is the way the page should both display and be read. -- Al Sparber - PVII http://www.projectseven.com Extending Dreamweaver - Nav Systems | Galleries | Widgets Authors: 42nd Street: Mastering the Art of CSS Design *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Float-less layouts
On Jan 8, 2008, at 1:48 AM, Thierry Koblentz wrote: I'd appreciate any comment that would help me improve this article: http://tjkdesign.com/articles/float-less_css_layouts.asp Demo: http://tjkdesign.com/articles/css-layout/ no_div_no_float_no_clear_no_hack_no _joke.asp Nice write-up. One of the issues with this technique: you can't use the 'columns' as a containing block for absolute positioned elements. Another issue: width on a 'table-cell' is more like 'min-width' than 'width'. The cell can expand in width if it contains e.g. long unbreakable text strings (or strings of text with white-space:pre). This can eventually be controlled by wrapping such content in a 'overflow:auto' wrapper, but not always. Philippe --- Philippe Wittenbergh http://emps.l-c-n.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Float-less layouts
From: Philippe Wittenbergh [EMAIL PROTECTED] One of the issues with this technique: you can't use the 'columns' as a containing block for absolute positioned elements. Another issue: width on a 'table-cell' is more like 'min-width' than 'width'. The cell can expand in width if it contains e.g. long unbreakable text strings (or strings of text with white-space:pre). This can eventually be controlled by wrapping such content in a 'overflow:auto' wrapper, but not always. I didn't test Thierry's layout, but this page, setting widths on each DIV that is set to display table-cell, seems to behave as expected with respect to overflowed content: http://www.projectseven.com/products/staging/float_not/index2.htm -- Al Sparber - PVII http://www.projectseven.com Extending Dreamweaver - Nav Systems | Galleries | Widgets Authors: 42nd Street: Mastering the Art of CSS Design *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Float-less layouts
Thierry wrote (in the linked article, not his post): DIVs are meaningless and cannot represent the structure of a document Really? According to the HTML 3.2 spec, where they first appear: DIV elements can be used to structure HTML documents as a hierarchy of divisions. http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html32#div See also: http://www.mail-archive.com/wsg@webstandardsgroup.org/msg29003.html Geoff *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] w3c link checker
i have been trying to check the links on my web site. it has 176 pages, but the link checker only checks a maximum of 150 links. who would i contact to ask for a larger number of pages (links)? i went to the w3c web site and have not found a contact link for the link checker. i think it would be out of line (ot) to contact the membership contact. any ideas or better information? dwain -- dwain alford The artist may use any form which his expression demands; for his inner impulse must find suitable expression. Kandinsky *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] w3c link checker
On 8 Jan 2008, at 01:10, dwain wrote: i have been trying to check the links on my web site. it has 176 pages, but the link checker only checks a maximum of 150 links. who would i contact to ask for a larger number of pages (links)? i went to the w3c web site and have not found a contact link for the link checker. They have limited resources to devote to providing free QA services. You can download the link checker and install it on your own systems, if you do so you can change the cap. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] w3c link checker
You could do it your self, how handy are you with ruby? Use 'hpricot' and 'open-uri' http://code.whytheluckystiff.net/hpricot/ A rough guess would be #!ruby #Get the html doc you want to check then loop through checking the status of each link (doc/a).each do |link| # now check the status link.attributes['href'] end On Jan 8, 2008 11:10 AM, dwain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i have been trying to check the links on my web site. it has 176 pages, but the link checker only checks a maximum of 150 links. who would i contact to ask for a larger number of pages (links)? i went to the w3c web site and have not found a contact link for the link checker. i think it would be out of line (ot) to contact the membership contact. any ideas or better information? dwain -- dwain alford The artist may use any form which his expression demands; for his inner impulse must find suitable expression. Kandinsky *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Camocarzi - www.camocarzi.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] w3c link checker
dwain wrote: i have been trying to check the links on my web site. it has 176 pages, but the link checker only checks a maximum of 150 links. who would i contact to ask for a larger number of pages (links)? i went to the w3c web site and have not found a contact link for the link checker. i think it would be out of line (ot) to contact the membership contact. any ideas or better information? dwain how about you download, install, and run it yourself? http://search.cpan.org/dist/W3C-LinkChecker/ P -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com __ Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ Take it to the streets ... join the WaSP Street Team http://streetteam.webstandards.org/ __ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Float-less layouts
Geoff Pack [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thierry wrote (in the linked article, not his post): DIVs are meaningless and cannot represent the structure of a document Really? According to the HTML 3.2 spec, where they first appear: DIV elements can be used to structure HTML documents as a hierarchy of divisions. http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html32#div Also see the W3C HTML 4.01 Specification: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/global.html#edef-DIV James Pickering Pickering Pages http://jp29.org/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Float-less layouts
From: Geoff Pack [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thierry wrote (in the linked article, not his post): DIVs are meaningless and cannot represent the structure of a document Really? According to the HTML 3.2 spec, where they first appear: DIV elements can be used to structure HTML documents as a hierarchy of divisions. http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html32#div See also: http://www.mail-archive.com/wsg@webstandardsgroup.org/msg29003.html Hi Geoff, The problem is with the standard. If one gets too hung up on semantic markup then there is the risk of bending the logical or implied semantics of an element to suit ones project. I submit that in the absence of a perfectly specific semantically correct element for a given task, a DIV becomes, by default, the logical choice. The world, and everything in it, is a list. The danger with that thinking, of course, is that everything in the world is data and can, therefore, be described in the cells of a table :-) -- Al Sparber - PVII http://www.projectseven.com Extending Dreamweaver - Nav Systems | Galleries | Widgets Authors: 42nd Street: Mastering the Art of CSS Design *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Float-less layouts
Thierry Koblentz wrote: Does your approach deal with any column any order? Is this a possibility? As it says on this page [1]: The sequence of the columns depends on the source order... As far as I know, display:table doesn't let us play with columns the same way we can do with floats. We can reverse column-order with rtl/ltr, and do some more order-tricking between similar-width columns. Example: http://www.gunlaug.no/tos/moa_11h.html Other than that there's not much we can do with CSS tables when it comes to source order vs. visual order. regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Float-less layouts
Al Sparber wrote: The problem is with the standard. If one gets too hung up on semantic markup then there is the risk of bending the logical or implied semantics of an element to suit ones project. I submit that in the absence of a perfectly specific semantically correct element for a given task, a DIV becomes, by default, the logical choice. It's not by default at all - it's by design: a DIV is exactly the correct element to use when you want to divide a document into divisions or sections. The world, and everything in it, is a list. Ordered or unordered? I guess it depends on your faith or lack of it. Maybe a definition list for the platonists out there. (And I though it was all waves and particles :) James Pickering wrote: Also see the W3C HTML 4.01 Specification: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/global.html#edef-DIV I've read it - see the last link in my last post, where I pointed out the progression of the DIV element in the various HTML specs: 3.2: used to structure HTML documents as a hierarchy of divisions 4.01: a generic mechanism for adding structure to documents 5 (draft): The div element represents nothing at all Geoff *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
