RE: [WSG] Usability for downloading documents
Should we be making this decision for the user though? If, by default, PDFs open within the browser, then won't we be changing their user experience by forcing them to open/save? In principle yes, but because so many other sites have worked around this issue (usually by opening new windows, or forcing download), there is no real default that users are accustomed to. I've resorted to forcing download (yes, thus perpetuating the erosion of default myself...a vicious circle). P Patrick H. Lauke Web Editor Enterprise Development University of Salford Room 113, Faraday House Salford, Greater Manchester M5 4WT UK T +44 (0) 161 295 4779 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.salford.ac.uk A GREATER MANCHESTER UNIVERSITY *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Usability for downloading documents
I think that you should make 2 buttons. The user will choice for download or just read the documment []'s - Rochester Oliveira http://webbemfeita.com/ Viva a Web-Bem-Feita Web Designer Curitiba - PR - Brasil *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Usability for downloading documents
Doesn't have a way to force the don't download? Or you may force download as pdf and make a jpg() for the preview :) 2 buttons for the same action will be a problem for sure. 2008/1/28, Christian Snodgrass [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Wording that would be really tricky, because if they're default action is to download it, when they hit Read they'd expect it to just open, not offer them a download prompt. There are a lot of people that would be agitated that both buttons do the same thing. Rochester oliveira wrote: I think that you should make 2 buttons. The user will choice for download or just read the documment []'s - Rochester Oliveira http://webbemfeita.com/ Viva a Web-Bem-Feita Web Designer Curitiba - PR - Brasil *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Christian Snodgrass Azure Ronin Web Design http://www.arwebdesign.net/ http://www.arwebdesign.net Phone: 859.816.7955 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- []'s - Rochester Oliveira http://webbemfeita.com/ Viva a Web-Bem-Feita Web Designer Curitiba - PR - Brasil *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Usability for downloading documents
Wording that would be really tricky, because if they're default action is to download it, when they hit Read they'd expect it to just open, not offer them a download prompt. There are a lot of people that would be agitated that both buttons do the same thing. Rochester oliveira wrote: I think that you should make 2 buttons. The user will choice for download or just read the documment []'s - Rochester Oliveira http://webbemfeita.com/ Viva a Web-Bem-Feita Web Designer Curitiba - PR - Brasil *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Christian Snodgrass Azure Ronin Web Design http://www.arwebdesign.net/ http://www.arwebdesign.net Phone: 859.816.7955 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Conflict between Mime Type and Document Type
Usually, it is something simple like trying to use a DOCTYPE of XHTML, with the extension html or whatever, and your server is, in reality, serving it up as text/html. Basically, you need to make sure that your server either: a) assumes no MIME type, or b) use an extension like .xhtml and tell it to serve it as text/xhtml+xml. However, be warned that IE7 (and all before, and likely IE8) do not actually support text/xhtml+xml, so it will completely fail when presented to the end-user. If it is some other DOCTYPE you are using that is getting the error (other then XHTML) let us know. Andrew Freedman wrote: G'day, I see this warning often when using the W3C validator and figured I must be doing something wrong, but as it is a warning I never bothered looking into it. Now I've seen it on the results from this site so it has roused my curiosity. Can some explain to me why this is occurring and how it is overcome. Thanks. Andrew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Christian Snodgrass Azure Ronin Web Design http://www.arwebdesign.net/ http://www.arwebdesign.net Phone: 859.816.7955 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Usability for downloading documents
Hi Tony On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 12:07:06 am Tony wrote: Hello, If, by default, PDFs open within the browser, then won't we be changing their user experience by forcing them to open/save? Regards, Tony Not really, the current position of inline PDF and other documents in probably due to the way the browser ships. I know a lot of people who dislike the inline thing and change it straight away, especially PDF's as it can slow or crash certain browsers (especially those beginning with F and ending in x). The other thing to consider is that people will generally save a document presented inline any way (it won't stay in their cache forever) and that a Save As... dialogue box will generally have an open option. So, the best usability is to allow the user to define what they want to do (either by allowing the user to select inline or downloadable files, or put it back in their hands and they can fiddle with their browser settings). To force download certain types of files (content-disposition: attachment), changes can be made at the web server level or in the middleware (PHP etc). How to do this is off topic for the list but I would quickly mention two gotchas that are: * only allow downloads from a certain directory lest you end up with downloader.php?file=/etc/passwd or even downloader.php?file=/path/to/databaseconnection.config * define the mime type properly when downloading as a lot of browsers use it to determine how to open a file. HTH James *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Conflict between Mime Type and Document Type
G'day, I see this warning often when using the W3C validator and figured I must be doing something wrong, but as it is a warning I never bothered looking into it. Now I've seen it on the results from this site so it has roused my curiosity. Can some explain to me why this is occurring and how it is overcome. Thanks. Andrew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Explorer woes with list dropdowns
Hello fellow web standard groupies. I have built a dropdown menu using lists. It works in Firefox and Safari but doesn't seem to work in IE6 or 7. Any suggestions? http://www.treasurehillskihomes.com/TESTING/navtest.html Greatly appreciated! Shane Helm www.sonze.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Explorer woes with list dropdowns
Seems I got it working in IE 6. The background color cannot be the same for the css from .menus a, .menus :visited and from .menus :hover the two values must be different, or the script wont work. Can anyone confirm it is working in IE 7? http://www.treasurehillskihomes.com/TESTING/navtest.html Thanks! Shane On Jan 28, 2008, at 8:52 PM, Shane Helm wrote: Hello fellow web standard groupies. I have built a dropdown menu using lists. It works in Firefox and Safari but doesn't seem to work in IE6 or 7. Any suggestions? http://www.treasurehillskihomes.com/TESTING/navtest.html Greatly appreciated! Shane Helm www.sonze.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Explorer woes with list dropdowns
IE6 doesn't respect the *:hover pseudo selector if I remember rightly... It only supports it for anchors, e.g a:hover You may have to look at a small bit of javascript to 'activate' this behavior. Im pretty sure this is your problem for IE browsers. Karl On Jan 29, 2008 2:52 PM, Shane Helm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello fellow web standard groupies. I have built a dropdown menu using lists. It works in Firefox and Safari but doesn't seem to work in IE6 or 7. Any suggestions? http://www.treasurehillskihomes.com/TESTING/navtest.html Greatly appreciated! Shane Helm www.sonze.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Explorer woes with list dropdowns
IE6 doesn't respect the *:hover pseudo selector if I remember rightly... It only supports it for anchors, e.g a:hover You may have to look at a small bit of javascript to 'activate' this behavior. No, because he's using one of Stu Nicholl's js-free menus. The trade off is a lot of IE conditional comments wrapped around table tags. :/ -- Tyssen Design http://www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Explorer woes with list dropdowns
A JavaScript function that you might be interested in is called the 'Suckerfish' technique. It is a well known problem that IE is difficult at best in these situations so to avoid lots of css hacks etc. you can use a little bit of JS instead. It's accessible, standards compliant and easy to use. There is a nice article about it here: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/dropdowns On 1/29/08, Karl Lurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IE6 doesn't respect the *:hover pseudo selector if I remember rightly... It only supports it for anchors, e.g a:hover You may have to look at a small bit of javascript to 'activate' this behavior. Im pretty sure this is your problem for IE browsers. Karl On Jan 29, 2008 2:52 PM, Shane Helm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello fellow web standard groupies. I have built a dropdown menu using lists. It works in Firefox and Safari but doesn't seem to work in IE6 or 7. Any suggestions? http://www.treasurehillskihomes.com/TESTING/navtest.html Greatly appreciated! Shane Helm www.sonze.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Explorer woes with list dropdowns
http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech-gadget/video-digital-cloud-invades-british-airways-first-class-lounge-at-heathrow On Jan 29, 2008 3:40 PM, Karl Lurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IE6 doesn't respect the *:hover pseudo selector if I remember rightly... It only supports it for anchors, e.g a:hover You may have to look at a small bit of javascript to 'activate' this behavior. Im pretty sure this is your problem for IE browsers. Karl On Jan 29, 2008 2:52 PM, Shane Helm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello fellow web standard groupies. I have built a dropdown menu using lists. It works in Firefox and Safari but doesn't seem to work in IE6 or 7. Any suggestions? http://www.treasurehillskihomes.com/TESTING/navtest.html Greatly appreciated! Shane Helm www.sonze.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Explorer woes with list dropdowns
Oops * 2 1st oops for sending the link to the WSG instead of my IM conversation (Damn Google Talk!!!) - Its a pretty cool video though... 2nd oops for looking at Shanes code in Firebug instead of by viewing the source! Karl *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Usability for downloading documents
Tony wrote: Should we be making this decision for the user though? If, by default, PDFs open within the browser, then won't we be changing their user experience by forcing them to open/save? Yes, I think we should make this decision. It's in the users best interests IMO. And by doing this maybe we can make that the new default (if there is one as others suggest). By not directly opening a resource in the browser, you delegate the downloading to the application assigned to it by the OS, which is separate to the browser. That way you avoid freezing your browser if it's a large resource and takes a while to download or if it's a slow connection, or potentially crashing your browser if it freezes and you start hitting the back button etc in an attempt to undo your action. -- Chris Knowles *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Usability for downloading documents
On 28 Jan 2008, at 18:04, Rochester oliveira wrote: Doesn't have a way to force the don't download? It is difficult to make a PDF open in a plugin if the user doesn't have that plugin installed. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Conflict between Mime Type and Document Type
On 28 Jan 2008, at 23:22, Andrew Freedman wrote: I see this warning often when using the W3C validator and figured I must be doing something wrong, but as it is a warning I never bothered looking into it. Now I've seen it on the results from this site so it has roused my curiosity. Can some explain to me why this is occurring and how it is overcome. URLs make things easier to debug, but most likely you are serving a document that: (a) Is XHTML (b) As text/html (c) Is not a version of XHTML that may be served as text/html (i.e. XHTML 1.0) It is generally best to just stick to HTML 4.01. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
