Re: [WSG] Blockquote

[James Jeffery]

Thanks for the heads up guys. I know how to use blockquote, that's not an
issue, but I'm wondering if using cite would be worth it.

I won't be storing the URL from the original page. If I did citing the orig.
page that could get me into a while lot of trouble if I am
mirroring/scraping/*stealing* quotes from certain sites. Hence why I do not
want to cite the original site.

Any advances on the problem?

If I could leave the cite out, without it causing an issue then I would. I
was going to use a , but an uncited blockquote would be more semantic
than a  I felt.


On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 12:33 AM, Chris Cressman wrote:

> > ,,,and the cite attribute itself is optional, used only
> > when the quote, as you say, is scraped from another site. :)
>
> The cite attribute is poorly supported by most browsers, in the sense
> that they don't do anything with it. However, you can use a CSS
> attribute selector and CSS generated content to display its value on
> your page. I'm not a CSS expert, so I can't code it up, but perhaps
> someone else will do it if you're interested.
>
> Chris
>
>
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Re: [WSG] Beta Testers Needed for BCAT

[Priti Rohra]

Hi Christie,

Flash is used extensively for creating E-learning courses and adding 
accessibility to Flash courses enhances the learning experience for students 
with special needs, provides authors and students with wider choices for 
creating and accessing E-learning courses etc. In addition, Flash helps to 
explain the complex concepts easily to students with learning and cognitive 
impairments, especially those having reading problems and those who find 
difficulties in understanding complex concepts.

Thus Flash can enrich the learning experience for all students and Accessible 
Flash can help to wards Inclusive Education.

Thanks & Regards,
Priti Rohra
Accessibility Tester
Net Systems Informatics (India) Pvt. Ltd.
Web: www.n-syst.com|www.barrierbreak.com
Blog: www.barrierbreak.com/blog

Please don't print this email unless you really need to. This will preserve 
trees on our planet.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Christie Mason 
  To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 7:15 PM
  Subject: RE: [WSG] Beta Testers Needed for BCAT


  Wouldn't it have been easier to manage and more appropriate towards being 
welcoming to those using assistive technologies to NOT use Flash?  Yes, Flash 
can be MADE to be accessible but what benefits does its use offer to justify 
all the things that must be done to make it accessible?  Why not use a standard 
CMS approach, apply web standards, and link in alternate media?  Then the text 
can be made larger and even the size of graphics, such as icons, can be 
increased with standard browser settings.

  Christie Mason

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[WSG] Chrome and Safari render the same...or do they?

[Jens-Uwe Korff]

Hi experts,

I'm running into big rendering differences between Google Chrome and
Safari 3.1/PC. They are said to render pages the same, given that
they're using the same Webkit engine.

The differences seem to be mainly due to the different font rendering.
Safari's fonts are way smaller, hence my boxes are smaller and shift up,
breaking the layout.

Anyone knows why this is so? Is there a workaround, i.e. a Safari-only
CSS hack?

Cheers,
 
Jens

The information contained in this e-mail message and any accompanying files is 
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it should be reproduced, adapted or communicated without the written consent of 
the copyright owner. If you have received this e-mail in error please advise 
the sender immediately by return e-mail or telephone and delete all copies. 
Fairfax does not guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information 
contained in this e-mail or attached files. Internet communications are not 
secure, therefore Fairfax does not accept legal responsibility for the contents 
of this message or attached files.


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Re: [WSG] Blockquote

[Chris Cressman]

> ,,,and the cite attribute itself is optional, used only
> when the quote, as you say, is scraped from another site. :)

The cite attribute is poorly supported by most browsers, in the sense
that they don't do anything with it. However, you can use a CSS
attribute selector and CSS generated content to display its value on
your page. I'm not a CSS expert, so I can't code it up, but perhaps
someone else will do it if you're interested.

Chris


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Re: [WSG] Blockquote

[Ben Buchanan]

2009/1/8 James Jeffery 

> I'm developing a site. A quote site infact. For the quotes I think it's
> wise to use  ... but, the quotes are being scraped from other
> sites so how would I cite them? Could I use a wiki url for the author? And
> what if the author is unknown or has no wiki page.
> Do I *need* to include the cite attribute?
>
While the cite attribute isn't mandatory, your scenario actually solves its
own problem. You can put in the URL you got the quote from. The cite
attribute is set up for that sort of usage:

"cite = uri [CT]
The value of this attribute is a URI that designates a source document or
message. This attribute is intended to give information about the source
from which the quotation was borrowed."

http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/text.html#h-9.2.2

If you wanted to visibly show the actual author/quote source (ie. who said
it, not where you got it) then you could include the name in a . eg.

http://www.rtnda.org/pages/media_items/edward-r.-murrow-speech998.php";>

This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even
inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to
use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires and lights in a box.
There is a great and perhaps decisive battle to be fought against ignorance,
intolerance and indifference. This weapon of television could be useful.

Edward R. Murrow, RTNDA Convention Speech, October 15
1958



cheers,

Ben

-- 
--- 
--- The future has arrived; it's just not
--- evenly distributed. - William Gibson


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Re: [WSG] Blockquote

[Mike at Green-Beast.com]

Hi James,


quotes are being scraped from other sites
how would I cite them?


Something like this might work well:

http://site.com/quotesource";>
Quoted text goes here.
http://site.com/quotedperson";>Quoted 
Person



The link within the cite element is optional, they may be the same or 
different as shown, and the cite attribute itself is optional, used only 
when the quote, as you say, is scraped from another site. :)


Hope that helps.

Cheers.
Mike Cherim
http://green-beast.com


- Original Message - 
From: "James Jeffery" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 5:58 PM
Subject: [WSG] Blockquote


I'm developing a site. A quote site infact. For the quotes I think it's 
wise

to use  ... but, the quotes are being scraped from other sites
so how would I cite them? Could I use a wiki url for the author? And what 
if

the author is unknown or has no wiki page.

Do I *need* to include the cite attribute?


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RE: [WSG] Blockquote

[Kepler Gelotte]

> ... but, the quotes are being scraped from other sites so how would I cite
them?

 

I thought the cite attribute was the URL of the original page the quote came
from. For example (from
http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/block/blockquote.html):

 

http://www.bibliomania.com/Fiction/joyce/ulysses/telemac.html";>
He pointed his finger in friendly jest and went over to the parapet,
laughing to himself. Stephen Dedalus stepped up, followed him wearily half
way and sat down on the edge of the gunrest, watching him still as he
propped his mirror on the parapet, dipped the brush in the bowl and lathered
cheeks and neck.
Buck Mulligan's gay voice went on.
My name is absurd too: Malachi Mulligan, two dactyls. But it
has a Hellenic ring, hasn't it? Tripping and sunny like the buck himself. We
must go to Athens. Will you come if I can get the aunt to fork out twenty
quid?


 

Since you are scraping the site you should have the URL.

 

Best regards,

Kepler Gelotte

Neighbor Webmaster, Inc.

156 Normandy Dr., Piscataway, NJ 08854

  www.neighborwebmaster.com

phone/fax: (732) 302-0904



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ORG:Neighbor Webmaster
TITLE:Web Designer
TEL;WORK;VOICE:(732) 302-0904
TEL;WORK;FAX:(732) 302-0904
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[WSG] Blockquote

[James Jeffery]

I'm developing a site. A quote site infact. For the quotes I think it's wise
to use  ... but, the quotes are being scraped from other sites
so how would I cite them? Could I use a wiki url for the author? And what if
the author is unknown or has no wiki page.

Do I *need* to include the cite attribute?


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Re: [WSG] Checking My Page

[James Jeffery]

lol. Don't worry Lisa.

I was reading it and I thought for a second it was some spam type of email.
Was a good read :p

I've did the same in the past.

Regards

James Jeffery

On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 1:45 PM, Lisa B McLaughlin wrote:

> OMG! So sorry to blast a personal email here!  I WILL use my glasses when
> using my BlackBerry!  Really.  (I at least how you got a laugh from my
> idiocy!) Lisa
>
> -Original Message-
> From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
> Behalf Of l...@allspunup.com
> Sent: 07 January 2009 07:04
> To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
> Subject: Re: [WSG] Checking My Page
>
> Hi
>   My sister was only able to afford a house because a hurricane made her
> eligible for a spacial deal. Lots of luck finding something where
> transportation isn't such an issue. Lots of places open now.
>   Yes, I am planning on Ian's party so getting a ride home shouldn't be a
> problem.
>   David is as can be expected. Funeral is today so he's on his way to
> Belfast.
> LL xx
> --Original Message--
> From: Marvin Hunkin
> Sender: li...@webstandardsgroup.org
> To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
> ReplyTo: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
> Subject: [WSG] Checking My Page
> Sent: Jan 7, 2009 05:15
>
> Hi.
> well, got some suggestions, from a friend.
> and now uploaded my latest files to http://drop.io/startrekcafe/
> so, take a look, give me feedback, and any other suggestions, i might need,
> or if my page, style sheet, and the nav links.css, looks fine and it looks
> professional, and the fonts, colours, and the page looks fine, then give me
> some feedback.
> cheers Marvin.
> E-mail: startrekc...@gmail.com
> MSN: sttartrekc...@msn.com
> Skype: startrekcafe
> We Are The Borg! You Will Be Assimilated! Resistance Is Futile!
> Star Trek Voyager Episode 68 Scorpian Part One
>
>
>
>
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> Sent from my BlackBerryR wireless device
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RE: [WSG] Checking My Page

[Lisa B McLaughlin]

OMG! So sorry to blast a personal email here!  I WILL use my glasses when
using my BlackBerry!  Really.  (I at least how you got a laugh from my
idiocy!) Lisa

-Original Message-
From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of l...@allspunup.com
Sent: 07 January 2009 07:04
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Checking My Page

Hi
   My sister was only able to afford a house because a hurricane made her
eligible for a spacial deal. Lots of luck finding something where
transportation isn't such an issue. Lots of places open now. 
   Yes, I am planning on Ian's party so getting a ride home shouldn't be a
problem. 
   David is as can be expected. Funeral is today so he's on his way to
Belfast.
LL xx
--Original Message--
From: Marvin Hunkin
Sender: li...@webstandardsgroup.org
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
ReplyTo: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Checking My Page
Sent: Jan 7, 2009 05:15

Hi.
well, got some suggestions, from a friend.
and now uploaded my latest files to http://drop.io/startrekcafe/
so, take a look, give me feedback, and any other suggestions, i might need, 
or if my page, style sheet, and the nav links.css, looks fine and it looks 
professional, and the fonts, colours, and the page looks fine, then give me 
some feedback.
cheers Marvin.
E-mail: startrekc...@gmail.com
MSN: sttartrekc...@msn.com
Skype: startrekcafe
We Are The Borg! You Will Be Assimilated! Resistance Is Futile!
Star Trek Voyager Episode 68 Scorpian Part One 




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Sent from my BlackBerryR wireless device
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RE: [WSG] Beta Testers Needed for BCAT

[Christie Mason]

Wouldn't it have been easier to manage and more appropriate towards being
welcoming to those using assistive technologies to NOT use Flash?  Yes,
Flash can be MADE to be accessible but what benefits does its use offer to
justify all the things that must be done to make it accessible?  Why not use
a standard CMS approach, apply web standards, and link in alternate media?
Then the text can be made larger and even the size of graphics, such as
icons, can be increased with standard browser settings.

Christie Mason


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[WSG] Re: WSG Digest (Out of the office until 02/03/2009)

[Marian WEATHERSTONE]

I am currently out of the office until Monday 2 March 2009.  
If you have an enquiry please contact:

Martha Herewini on 9391 9048 or send your web request to:
webservi...@doh.health.nsw.gov.au



Regards, Marian Weatherstone
Web Support Officer
NSW Department of Health


Disclaimer: This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain 
confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete 
it and notify the sender. Views expressed in this message are those of the 
individual sender, and are not necessarily the views of NSW Health.

__
This email has been scanned for the NSW Department of Health by the MessageLabs 
Email Security System. The Department regularly monitors emails and attachments 
to ensure compliance with its Electronic Messaging Policy.
_

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Re: [WSG] issues with too many divs

[Bill Brown]

Ben Lau wrote:

Hi all,

I'm not a fan of having too many DIVs on a page, but due to complicated
background designs, I'm forced to use additional wrapper DIVs just to
achieve the look. Are there any major downfall in doing so apart from
increasing page size? I'd like to be able to convince our designer to
simplify the design...


Hi Ben--

I think it depends on the design and the application/website. If divs 
are being used wisely, on a widely deployed application, it makes sense 
that the div count could be quite high. I created a bookmark and did a 
quick census of some larger sites:


Facebook.com - 796 divs (!) on my simple landing (dashboard?) page.
CNN.com - 724 divs on main page.
MSN.com - 188 divs.
Yahoo.com - a cool 100 divs.
Alistapart.com - 17 divs.
CSSZenGarden.com - 22 divs.
MySpace.com - 77 divs (not logged in or anything).

Even an infrequent visitor to MySpace must expect the post-login div 
count (and table count) to be quite a bit higher.


When a more semantic tag makes more sense, death to the div, I say. If a 
better cross-browser solution can be achieved sans-div...death to the 
div, once again. Unfortunately, much like forms, divs can be a necessary 
evil and sometimes have to be used. When this is the case, I try to live 
by a 'less is more' philosophy as best I can.


All my tests were run using this bookmarklet:
javascript:(function(){var 
docrut,divlen,msgtag,msgtxt;docrut=document.getElementsByTagName("BODY")[0];divlen=document.getElementsByTagName("DIV").length;msgtag=document.createElement("H1");msgtxt=document.createTextNode("This 
site is using "+divlen+" 
divs.");msgtag.appendChild(msgtxt);docrut.insertBefore(msgtag,docrut.firstChild);})();


I made it up for the solely for the purposes of this email, so don't 
shoot me if it isn't perfect.


--Bill


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[WSG] Beta Testers Needed for BCAT

[Priti Rohra]

Hello All,

Right to education is universal. Education has evolved from blackboard to 
keyboard. Elearning has broken the geographical barriers and made it possible
for people to access knowledge with ease and convenience.

Despite the benefits offered by Elearning, it is not possible for students with 
special needs to access Elearning courses. Students using assistive technologies
can with little ease access HTML based elearning but are deprived of the rich 
learning experience provided by technologies such as Flash. The common myth
that prevails is that 'Flash cannot be made accessible' Its time that we over 
come this myth and change the mind set to 'Flash can be made Accessible'

Net Systems Informatics & BarrierBreak Technologies have taken the initiative 
to break this myth and have launched the Beta version of "BarrierBreak Course
Authoring Tool (BCAT)". BCAT is designed and developed to assist 
teachers/authors in creating accessible Flash based Elearning courses. BCAT is 
an easy
to use tool with in-built keyboard and screen reader support enabling students 
with disabilities to experience the power of Elearning!

BCAT comprises of two main components, Course Authoring Tool based on Moodle 
Learning Management System and Flash Architecture to access the course contents.
In addition, the teacher/author can add various accessibility options to the 
course such as: Alternate Text, Captions, and Transcripts.

Once the course is published, the contents are generated in to XML and users 
can access the course using a Flash player. The Flash course thus created 
provides
users with an "Accessibility Panel" to meet their needs:
  a.. Show/Hide Captions
  b.. Audio Transcript
  c.. Change Themes
  d.. Small/Large Icons
  e.. Show/Hide Labels
  f.. Change Text Size
We invite users with disabilities, teachers/authors, accessibility community at 
large to access BCAT and provide their valuable feedback and suggestions
to make BCAT a tool for inclusive education.

To access Beta version of BCAT, visit:
http://www.n-syst.com/lms/login/signup.php

Once you sign up, you will receive an email including further instructions. 
Along with the email, you will receive a ReadMe file, documentation for creating
a course, documentation for using the course and bug report file.

The Beta Test Run is open until 20th January 2009. All suggestions are highly 
appreciated and will help us to make BCAT more user-friendly and accessible
for all.

Thanks & Regards,
Net Systems Informatics & BarrierBreak Technologies Team
www.n-syst.com |www.barrierbreak.com |e-learn...@n-syst.com


Thanks & Regards,
Priti Rohra
Accessibility Tester
Net Systems Informatics (India) Pvt. Ltd.
Web: www.n-syst.com|www.barrierbreak.com
Blog: www.barrierbreak.com/blog

Please don't print this email unless you really need to. This will preserve 
trees on our planet.


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Re: [WSG] issues with too many divs

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Ben Lau wrote:
Are there any major downfall in doing so apart from increasing page 
size? I'd like to be able to convince our designer to simplify the 
design...


No UA will have problems with a dozen or so extra wrapper-divs around
every single element in a page - doesn't even have to be valid nesting,
so that in itself won't give you arguments for simplifying a design.

Complex imagery in designs tends to lead to failures when exposed to
font-resizing and other normal user-induced challenges -
background-images don't scale with foreground, so it's probably easier
to find arguments for a simplified design on the accessibility/usability
side of web design.

regards
Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no


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RE: [WSG] issues with too many divs

[michael.brockington]

Do the additional wrapper divs make as much difference to the page
weight as the images that you imply are also required?  Eleven extra
bytes is generally nothing compared to an additional image. Unless you
are adding them in four-figure quantities, no amount of DIVs are likely
to cause a problem for a modern browser, but overlapping images will
start to cause problems while you are still in double-figures. 
 
Balance is normally the key to a good design - it is never worth
stripping the HTML down to the absolute basics, since that will then
require you to increase the complexity of your CSS to compensate, or
indeed vice-versa.
This also applies to visual design - too much detail makes things look
fussy, and often makes them fragile, but without seeing what your
designer has given you, I don't think any of us can comment on whether
he is being overly demanding or not.
 
Regards,
Mike
 
Mike Brockington
Web Development Specialist

www.calcResult.com
www.stephanieBlakey.me.uk
www.edinburgh.gov.uk

This message does not reflect the opinions of any entity other than the
author alone. 




From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org]
On Behalf Of Ben Lau
Sent: 07 January 2009 05:36
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] issues with too many divs


Hi all,

I'm not a fan of having too many DIVs on a page, but due to complicated
background designs, I'm forced to use additional wrapper DIVs just to
achieve the look. Are there any major downfall in doing so apart from
increasing page size? I'd like to be able to convince our designer to
simplify the design...

Thanks

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Re: [WSG] issues with too many divs

[aimee]

Depends on what you mean by to many,  agree with Tee the use of class  
wth backgrounds will help. You could create a small sample with not to  
many divs to test the image/graphic weight on the page and inform the  
designer that by using this or that the page load increases X ammount.  
IT all depends in your company how much say you have over the  
designers choice... the only page load issue with divs is not the  
ammount of divs used but the size of the graphic/image which  
will/should not change wheter you load it in 3 DIV or 30. one  
condiseration though will be how the page will be drawn by using the  
divs, ie for people with low speed connections the page load an look  
very ugly if it needs to be spliced (and also for high speed  
connections ust not as bad) and lest face it in the city we have high  
speeds but a lot of australia does not.


hope that helps somewhat?


Regards

Aimee Maree



Quoting tee :



On Jan 6, 2009, at 9:35 PM, Ben Lau wrote:


Hi all,

I'm not a fan of having too many DIVs on a page, but due to   
complicated background designs, I'm forced to use additional   
wrapper DIVs just to achieve the look. Are there any major downfall  
 in doing so apart from increasing page size? I'd like to be able  
to  convince our designer to simplify the design...




Ben, not sure if this helps or not.

What I usually do is, I make good use of tags such as headings, child
selectors for background image purpose or sometimes add a class just
for the background image purpose, and then add it to the divs and tags
accordingly.
One technique I particularly like is to make a gradient transparent
background, and use it for many background effects with colors and
background positioning.

It does take a bit of practice to get it right and to be able to
foresee potential but hard to spot issues to make it more browser-proof
(or browser friendly).

tee


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Re: [WSG] issues with too many divs

[tee]

On Jan 6, 2009, at 9:35 PM, Ben Lau wrote:


Hi all,

I'm not a fan of having too many DIVs on a page, but due to  
complicated background designs, I'm forced to use additional wrapper  
DIVs just to achieve the look. Are there any major downfall in doing  
so apart from increasing page size? I'd like to be able to convince  
our designer to simplify the design...




Ben, not sure if this helps or not.

What I usually do is, I make good use of tags such as headings, child  
selectors for background image purpose or sometimes add a class just  
for the background image purpose, and then add it to the divs and tags  
accordingly.
One technique I particularly like is to make a gradient transparent  
background, and use it for many background effects with colors and  
background positioning.


It does take a bit of practice to get it right and to be able to  
foresee potential but hard to spot issues to make it more browser- 
proof (or browser friendly).


tee


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