[WSG] NYTimes.com Article: Microsoft Quits a U.N. Standards Group
The article below from NYTimes.com has been sent to you by [EMAIL PROTECTED] This company is really starting to scare me. [EMAIL PROTECTED] /- E-mail Sponsored by Fox Searchlight \ I HEART HUCKABEES - OPENING IN SELECT CITIES OCTOBER 1 From David O. Russell, writer and director of THREE KINGS and FLIRTING WITH DISASTER comes an existential comedy starring Dustin Hoffman, Isabelle Hupert, Jude Law, Jason Schwartzman, Lily Tomlin, Mark Wahlberg and Naomi Watts. Watch the trailer now at: http://www.foxsearchlight.com/huckabees/index_nyt.html \--/ Microsoft Quits a U.N. Standards Group August 24, 2004 By JOHN MARKOFF Microsoft withdrew from a United Nations software standards group for commerce, citing business reasons. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/24/technology/24soft.html?ex=1094355517ei=1en=e6be4aa44b34f223 - Get Home Delivery of The New York Times Newspaper. Imagine reading The New York Times any time anywhere you like! Leisurely catch up on events expand your horizons. Enjoy now for 50% off Home Delivery! Click here: http://homedelivery.nytimes.com/HDS/SubscriptionT1.do?mode=SubscriptionT1ExternalMediaCode=W24AF HOW TO ADVERTISE - For information on advertising in e-mail newsletters or other creative advertising opportunities with The New York Times on the Web, please contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit our online media kit at http://www.nytimes.com/adinfo For general information about NYTimes.com, write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] The Tables Revenge
Hi, Thanks, it is truly enlightening hearing from the author. So this is not an example of how to convert div's to cells but just vertical alignment without the need for images, so semantically all is good with this technique? C On Tuesday, July 6, 2004, at 12:08 AM, Roger Johansson wrote: On 5 jul 2004, at 22.43, ckimedia wrote: I've read this, and found it useful but isn't it retrograde making div's into table cells so we can style non tabular data in a table ? http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200406/ equal_height_boxes_with_css_part_ii/ I made that example to show that it's possible to use CSS to vertically align content in a div (or other container), or make several containers (with an unknown and variable amount of content) the same height. Just not in Internet Explorer. Since this is just visual styling, a table isn't really appropriate (unless what you're styling is tabular data, obviously). If you use a table, you're stuck with a table, and if later on you want to change the layout, you will probably need to edit the HTML as well as the CSS. /Roger -- http://www.456bereastreet.com/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] The Tables Revenge
Hi, I'm aware I've posted this twice, but I'm a little confused. I've read this, and found it useful but isn't it retrograde making div's into table cells so we can style non tabular data in a table ? http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200406/ equal_height_boxes_with_css_part_ii/ Complexity is good, complicated is bad. Paolo Soleri * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] The Tables Revenge
Hi, I've read this, and found it useful but isn't it retrograde making div's into table cells so we can style non tabular data in a table ? http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200406/ equal_height_boxes_with_css_part_ii/ C * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] 508??
Hi, Lee would recommend a comprehensive accessibility text. I've scoured Amazon to the point of red eye, and have found nothing but how to pass Bobby. This text should include captioning of Quicktime, and other dynamic media considerations. C On Wednesday, June 30, 2004, at 05:47 AM, Lee Roberts wrote: Jesse, I'll agree it makes them think about it for about ... 10 seconds. Then they go and start using those automated evaluators and mess it all up. I've used every evaluator there is and none come as close to meeting my experience as I would like. You can pass those automated test very easily and then totally ignore some very important elements. One accessibility presentation I went to had a company representative look like a fool when he was showing how JAWS worked with their pages. The designer passed all the automated tests, but failed to lineate the table correctly so JAWS was jumping all around the screen reading things out of order. Yep, Bobby said it passed - Bobby lied too. Yes, much of the Assistive Technology relies upon Microsoft. Didn't you realize that Microsoft doesn't allow anyone access to their core functions? Oh, that's last millennia's news. We should fire the federal judges that ruled in favor of Microsoft. They just gave too much power to Microsoft and I'm not talking their anti-competitive attitudes. I'm talking embedding their browser further into their operating systems. It's going to get to the point that their browser will enable any web site to take control of the computer again ... just like when we used to cause hard drive formats. Jesse, please tell me how Canada falls under Section 508. I realize Canada falls under our telecommunications acts, but I wasn't aware that Canada had to comply with Section 508. As I understood it, Canada's rules, although not totally accepted, required bi-lingual sites and even more accessibility than Section 508 requires. Please correct me if I'm wrong; I like to keep up with how other countries are handling the issues. Thanks, Lee Roberts -Original Message- From: J Rodgers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 5:42 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] 508?? Have you looked at the other assistive technologies available? Yes I work closely with our Office for Persons with Disabilities, even presented at their Assistive Technology Fair last year. This year I will as well and sounds like it will be even bigger than last year. There are some very cool technologies out there. England and the other countries requiring accessible web sites state 508 did not meet their requirements for accessible web sites. So, how can we state that Section 508 is the end-all solution when other governments are saying it isn't enough? Not saying it was an end-all, just saying it was a decent place to start. At the very least it is forcing a lot of software developers and web designers to think accessible design. AT developers have the User Agent Accessibility Guidelines they have to follow. There is at least one person from the JAWS team on the working group. Since JAWS uses Internet Explorer and the Microsoft Accessibility Agent, I would hope that Microsoft starts supporting standards better than they do. And that they stop with their proprietary stuff. Netscape has begun to support OBJECT so we don't need to use EMBED/NOEMBED any longer unless you want to support earlier versions. Oh my, do we want to support Netscape 4.x? I don't and don't even come close to trying any longer. That is likely the biggest problem with Assistive technology, it relies on other over priced bloat ware that is unstable at the best of times and refuses to follow any standards properly. Why not move to Moz? Why build Assistive technologies for Linux where you have more control? Oh that is rhetorical. One thing I did notice with a lot of Assistive Technologies is that they rely heavily on Microsoft. I think that is a shame. Jesse * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] 508??
Hi, Thanks I wasn't aware my question had ominous tones. Nonetheless, humble voice I appreciate your suggestion. /humble voice On Wednesday, June 30, 2004, at 08:04 AM, Patrick Lauke wrote: ominous voiceComprehensive Accessibility Text/ominous voice, as the field is constantly evolving and changing. What you can get, though, is books covering the majority of the basis, and follow that up with good practice examples. They're out there, you just need to look in the right places (and frequent lists like the above featured WAI-IG, or forums such as www.accessifyforum.com for instance). * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Looking for help and critiques on a new site
Hi, You could also try linking to the js file. C On Monday, June 28, 2004, at 11:19 PM, Ben Bishop wrote: The final problem is when I try and validate the page. Everything validates, except the JavaScript for the menus. Now, this JavaScript is taken directly from the Son of Suckerfish so I was surprised to find that it was coming Hi Seona, Quick (but proper) fix for the JS validation, start with: script type=text/javascript!--//--![CDATA[//!-- and finish with: //--!]]/script (Check the source at http://www.htmldog.com/articles/suckerfish/dropdowns/example/ bones1.html) -ben * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] 508??
Hi, Are these expanded rules mentioned available to the public? C On Tuesday, June 29, 2004, at 09:49 AM, Lee Roberts wrote: Even on the Oklahoma Electronic and Information Technology Accessibility Task Force, which I'm a member, we took Section 508 as our base rules and advanced beyond it. Many States have done the same including Missouri and Illinois. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] 508??
Hi, Looking forward to the enhanced view. Thanks for the timely reply. C On Tuesday, June 29, 2004, at 07:32 PM, Lee Roberts wrote: The standards are available at these locations. Missouri: http://www.dolir.state.mo.us/matp/ITAccessibilityStatute.htm Illinois: http://www.illinois.gov/iwas/standards/iwasStandards.cfm I hope this helps. Sincerely, Lee Roberts -Original Message- From: ckimedia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 12:59 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] 508?? Hi, Are these expanded rules mentioned available to the public? C On Tuesday, June 29, 2004, at 09:49 AM, Lee Roberts wrote: Even on the Oklahoma Electronic and Information Technology Accessibility Task Force, which I'm a member, we took Section 508 as our base rules and advanced beyond it. Many States have done the same including Missouri and Illinois. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] As Good As the Weakest Link
Hi,
When styling a group of links one can simply change the display of the
a:link and a:visited state to display block, making a simply line of
links into a list. What is the advantage of using a ol for links as
opposed to the aforementioned, if any?
#navbar a:link, #navbar a:visited {
display: block;
color: #7e7e7e;
background-color: #ff;
border-bottom: solid 1px #00;
padding-bottom: 3px;
padding-top: 3px;
}
Complexity is good, complicated is bad.
Paolo Soleri
Chris
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Re: [WSG] As Good As the Weakest Link
Hi, I meant ul, and I too agree that semantically the list seems more sound. Thanks. C On Monday, June 28, 2004, at 05:05 PM, Mordechai Peller wrote: ckimedia wrote: When styling a group of links one can simply change the display of the a:link and a:visited state to display block, making a simply line of links into a list. What is the advantage of using a ol for links as opposed to the aforementioned, if any? ul is actually more common, and usually the better, more logical, choice. Besides giving more hooks for CSS, it connects the links together semantically. As far as ol versus ul is concerned, the answer to that is a separate discussion which has nothing to do with links. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Site Deconstruction, those crafty Germans
Hi, Thanks, as this topic caused a bit of unrest last evening. After looking in terms of a gathering in which diverse taste need accommodation, serving one vegetarian entree as an alternative is just courteous. Browser sniffing, can be used in such a manner to allow a seamless experience for non-plug in users, or wireless. Serving (1) standards based alternative, not a buffet of little hacks to please every UA. So I look forward to adding this technique to my tool kit, as with any tool, to be called upon only when needed. Complexity is good, complicated is bad. Paolo Soleri On Friday, June 25, 2004, at 01:35 AM, Mordechai Peller wrote: Chris Blown wrote: Thats _really_ bad Browser checking is a thing of the past and should be gladly forgotten. Something that we can all thank the web standards project for. Is there a valid reason to do browser checking? I can't think of one... There are plenty of reasons to do so server side, log files being the most common. I use sniffing to determine whether I should serve up XHTML 1.1 or HTML 4.01. Even client side, the use of @-rules to hide CSS from certain browsers, and for that matter, all CSS hacks, are a form of browser checking. Also, many mobile phones use the wrong style sheet (screen instead of handheld). Browser sniffing is a way around that. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Site Deconstruction, those crafty Germans
Hi, I found this wonderful site (http://www.mbusa.com/brand/index.jsp) listed at the WSG section for full CSS sites(http://webstandardsgroup.org/resources/#cat9). As today is my Review and Research day, I've been peeking under the hood. If my interpretation of the rather elegant code is correct, this site has a second layout that is rendered if FLASH is not present. Can some one please confirm or correct my observation. I've sent an e-mail and poked around for other examples, but have come to rely on this rather savvy bunch for my final analysis. C * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Accessibility in FLASH MX 2004
Hi, Thanks On Wednesday, June 23, 2004, at 01:45 AM, Tim Lucas wrote: ckimedia spoke the following wise words on 23/06/2004 10:36 AM EST: Before dashing the XHTML/CSS solution to my interface execution, how robust is the accessibility feature in MX 2004? The interface must be as 508 compliant as possible. A quick google for Flash 2004 accessibility found a couple of interesting pages: Flash and JAWS: http://ficp.engr.utexas.edu/cone/flash/files/Flash%20and%20JAWS.pdf Macromedia's Stuff: http://www.macromedia.com/macromedia/accessibility/features/flash/ A Breeze presso that no longer exists: http://www.markme.com/accessibility/archives/003223.cfm Accessibility tools for Flash: http://www.hisoftware.com/macromedia_flash/ A few articles: http://www.washington.edu/accessit/articles?23 http://evolt.org/article/rdf/4090/57431/index.html HTH -- tim lucas http://www.toolmantim.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] :before Pseudo Element
Hi, I a bit of a pickle, I attempting to use the :before Pseudo element to insert an en dash before a p class=dialogueblah blah/P, but have ran aground, wisdom welcome. C * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] :before Pseudo Element
Hi,
Target browsers include Safari, Mozilla, Firefox, the standards posse
and perhaps IE 5 mac. As for the CSS
P.dialogue:before {content: mdash; }
On Wednesday, June 23, 2004, at 11:06 AM, Iain Gardiner wrote:
Do you have any more background than this? The CSS you are applying,
for
example. Letting us know which browsers you are using would also
help. If
you are using IE, then that's the problem. Its support for generated
content is pitiful if not non-existant.
Iain
--
Iain Gardiner
http://www.firelightning.com
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of ckimedia
Sent: 23 June 2004 17:13
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] :before Pseudo Element
Hi,
I a bit of a pickle, I attempting to use the :before Pseudo element to
insert an en dash before a
p class=dialogueblah blah/P,
but have ran aground, wisdom welcome.
C
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Re: [WSG] Mac testers please
Hi, Works good in safari, you could force white space so the site does not jump horizontal when a scrollbar is needed. On Tuesday, June 22, 2004, at 02:14 AM, t94xr.net.nz webmaster wrote: Hi all, I was wondering if anyone could be so kind as to test my site using IE for Mac 5+ and Safari http://www.v2.shockmedia.com.au Thanks. Damn, forget the rest of the site - put her as the only thing on the page and you'll have everyone still agreeing its a great site. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Accessibility in FLASH MX 2004
Hi, Before dashing the XHTML/CSS solution to my interface execution, how robust is the accessibility feature in MX 2004? The interface must be as 508 compliant as possible. Don't Crucify the Flash Guy, Chris * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Mac testers please
http://www.webstandardsawards.com/tests/bigtext.php Twinsparc Tuesday April 6th, 2004 It's easy to forget that a powerful design doesn't have to be chock full o' graphics. Twinsparc lives up to their own credo of Smart Design for Print and Web by taking full advantage of web standards, simplicity and extensive use of white space. Worth noticing: the 800 pixel high center column forces a scrollbar to appear for all pages. This effectively stops the content from jumping horizontally and provides a frames-like experience where only the content appears to be refreshed when viewed in a browser that auto-hides the scrollbars. Smart. If you ever submitted a site to WSA you'd know that our own technique of forcing a vertical scrollbar is slightly more radical. :) Hi, The above is from the WSA, this is where I learned the technique, see the entry for Twinsparc. Reviewed by Johan Edlund :: Comments (6) On Tuesday, June 22, 2004, at 09:48 AM, Shane Helm wrote: Looks great in Safari. Nice clean design. Great work. The site is not centering in IE 5 on the map. You have about 200px of white space between site and right border/shadow. I'm interested to know CKIMEDIA is saying about forcing white space so that the site doesn't jump horizontal when a scrollbar is needed. I hat the jump. What's this mean? How do you fix it? Sonze On Jun 22, 2004, at 8:29 AM, ckimedia wrote: Hi, Works good in safari, you could force white space so the site does not jump horizontal when a scrollbar is needed. On Tuesday, June 22, 2004, at 02:14 AM, t94xr.net.nz webmaster wrote: Hi all, I was wondering if anyone could be so kind as to test my site using IE for Mac 5+ and Safari http://www.v2.shockmedia.com.au Thanks. Damn, forget the rest of the site - put her as the only thing on the page and you'll have everyone still agreeing its a great site. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
