Re: [WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment

[Mordechai Peller]

Sean M. Hall AKA Dante wrote:

  RE:[WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment 
  "Use to force [of
Web Standards]" 
  
Cute. This may yet become the new tag line of the WSG

(If George doen't mind.)

Re: [WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment - OT

[Russ Weakley - Maxdesign]

Apologies to all - I seem to have done some thread hijacking of my own!

That off-topic post was made in a flippant mood on Saturday night. The site
in question was taken down a year or two ago, so the games cannot be seen.
However, the front page is still available on the wayback machine (may
offend some viewers):
http://web.archive.org/web/20020925212239/webwank.net/

In those days we were into political activism and fighting for the rights of
Indigenous Australians. Now we are standards evangelists fighting for CSS
and standards against repressive regimes (such as IE6).  :)

Back to discussions on web standards...
Russ



> Sorry, I meant the site the article talks about - webwank.net - I want to
> throw tampons at John Howard!
> 

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Re: [WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment

[Kay Smoljak]

Neerav <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

> I can view it in Firefox 0.8 , heres the text for ppl who cant access it 
> for some reason
> 
> http://news.awn.com/index.php?newsitem_no=4149

Sorry, I meant the site the article talks about - webwank.net - I want to
throw tampons at John Howard!


--
Kay Smoljak
http://kay.smoljak.com
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Re: [WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment

[Kym Kovan]

Hi Kay,

>> http://news.awn.com/index.php?newsitem_no=4149
>
>Is the site no longer up?

I can see it, and had a good giggle :-)


--

Yours,

Kym 

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Re: [WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment

[Neerav]

I can view it in Firefox 0.8 , heres the text for ppl who cant access it 
for some reason

http://news.awn.com/index.php?newsitem_no=4149
Australian Government Sets Out To Ban Political Web Game
January 23, 2001
"Government officials in Australia are threatening a lawsuit against 
WebWank.net for posting a political satire Web game, which pokes fun at 
the country's treatment of its aboriginal people. Aboriginal Affairs 
Minister John Herron feels that the use of his likeness in the game, 
JOHN HERRON'S STOLEN CHILDREN GAME, is a defamation of character. In the 
game, players must capture all ten of John Herron's children then place 
them in non-white families.

The game is a satire of an early 20th century Australian policy, which 
removed aboriginal children from their families and placed them in white 
homes. Current Australian Prime Minister, John Howard, has also come 
under heat of late for refusing to apologize for the policy, which 
displaced thousands of children known as the "Stolen Generation."

The STOLEN CHILDREN creators, Russ Weakley and Peter Firminger, e-mailed 
Herron about what he thought of the game. Herron responded in a written 
letter saying, "This is formally to let you know that I am instituting 
proceedings against you for defamation in the Supreme Court of 
Queensland. The Federal Police will be involved to track this Website if 
I do not receive a response within 24 hours."

Weakley and Firminger removed the game on Thursday, January 18, however 
it was back up on Monday, January 22. The creators wrote on the site, 
"This game is political satire. It was intended to be a comic depiction 
of the Howard government's policy and John Herron's stance towards the 
'Stolen Generation.' We do not, in any way, intend to offend or threaten 
John Herron's real children."

Electronic Frontier Australia board member Dale Clapperton said, "In a 
free society, it is completely unacceptable for politicians to use 
threats of legal action to silence their critics. Senator Herron has 
completely overreacted to a humorous parody of his handling of the 
'Stolen Generation' issue. Furthermore, threatening to use the Federal 
Police to track down the authors of this site constitutes a gross abuse 
of his power as an elected official."

WebWank features two other political games, which have enflamed 
officials. THE CRUCIFIXION GAME challenges players to nail WebWank 
creators to a cross and THE JOHN HOWARD SHOOTING GALLERY has gamers 
fling tampons at the Prime Minister – a poke at the Australian 
government's unpopular tax on feminine hygiene products. "

--
Neerav Bhatt
http://www.bhatt.id.au
Web Development & IT consultancy
Mobile: +61 403 8000 27
Kay Smoljak wrote:
Russ Weakley - Maxdesign <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
I played around with flash and and then Peter and I were threatened with
defamation in the Supreme Court of Queensland:
http://news.awn.com/index.php?newsitem_no=4149

Is the site no longer up?
--
Kay Smoljak
http://www.newlookhair.com.au
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Re: [WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment

[Kay Smoljak]

Russ Weakley - Maxdesign <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> I played around with flash and and then Peter and I were threatened with
> defamation in the Supreme Court of Queensland:
> http://news.awn.com/index.php?newsitem_no=4149

Is the site no longer up?

--
Kay Smoljak
http://www.newlookhair.com.au


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Re: [WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment

[Russ Weakley - Maxdesign]

I think can beat that!

I played around with flash and and then Peter and I were threatened with
defamation in the Supreme Court of Queensland:
http://news.awn.com/index.php?newsitem_no=4149

But that was before we became responsible listparents  :)
Russ



> I played around with flash - in a wk i made blue box move from one side to
> another :D!!

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Re: [WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment

[Jeff Davies]

Horses for courses - you build what will attract your client's audience - 
if the client requires a site for a niche audience with it's own 
characteristics (as long as these are known not just assumed) then a lot of 
the usual cliches about not losing part of the potential audience MAY not 
apply. There must be some people out there who actually like sitting 
through flash animations - just like the movie companies must have done 
audience research that proves that most of us like sitting through endless 
clever animated sequences that eventually get you to the menu screen on a DVD.

When I started working on websites the woman who took me on said just 
remember that there are millions of idiots out there who will burn up their 
phone bill and sit for ages waiting to see a fake image of Gillian 
Anderson's privates slowly reveal itself on screen but they're unlikely to 
be still waiting on your ever-so-neat price list and order form for home 
delivered pizza to materialise.

As basic advice it's worked for me
Jeff
06:28 05/06/2004, you wrote:
Hey list,
I have something which has been a major topic of discussion between a 
friend and I.
I am currently working on a promotions website - promoting for Sydney 
Nightclubs (R&B Scene)
To knuckle down and get to the point - Do I use webstandards and efficent 
coding to make the website...
Or do I use Flash, Verbose Table Layouts, Lots of Images & Animations 
etc... To get people interested.

Really it is a question of - do I make the website for viewer enjoyment, 
or for the widest viewer spectrum.

I am not sure if many of you would be in the same situation, but I can 
imagine it has come up at least once with us all before.
Whether its a news website, or a Hosting companies website...

My situation is a very sticky one - Clubbers dont want web standards, they 
want to see - what they can't have - lots of pictures help, and sounds are 
good (ambient music, on/off switch of course).

My website hasn't begun yet, although I have some rough ideas, one which 
my friend came up with:
http://www.equicom.net/chris/test.html
I think its great, doesnt use flash or anything.
It was an eye opener thinking it was as simple as it was.
It works in FireFox (exept sound) which is good...
But the fact that it looks good with such a simply design.

What are your opinions - and can you lend me any assistance.
Web Standars are very important to me, and I would much rather use 
standards compliant code, than make 10 extra people per 100 happy because 
there is a boxed layout (like the demo website)...
I could code that in CSS, but it wouldn't be as solid as it is with Tables.

Anyway!
Let me know what you all think!
Cheers!
Chris Stratford.
web-arts: the art & craft of web design
http://www.web-arts.biz 

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Re: [WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment

[Jeff Davies]

Horses for courses - you build what will attract your client's audience - 
if the client requires a site for a niche audience with it's own 
characteristics (as long as these are known not just assumed) then a lot of 
the usual cliches about not losing part of the potential audience MAY not 
apply. There must be some people out there who actually like sitting 
through flash animations - just like the movie companies must have done 
audience research that proves that most of us like sitting through endless 
clever animated sequences that eventually get you to the menu screen on a DVD.

When I started working on websites the woman who took me on said just 
remember that there are millions of idiots out there who will burn up their 
phone bill and sit for ages waiting to see a fake image of Gillian 
Anderson's privates slowly reveal itself on screen but they're unlikely to 
be still waiting on your ever-so-neat price list and order form for home 
delivered pizza to materialise.

As basic advice it's worked for me
Jeff
06:28 05/06/2004, you wrote:
Hey list,
I have something which has been a major topic of discussion between a 
friend and I.
I am currently working on a promotions website - promoting for Sydney 
Nightclubs (R&B Scene)
To knuckle down and get to the point - Do I use webstandards and efficent 
coding to make the website...
Or do I use Flash, Verbose Table Layouts, Lots of Images & Animations 
etc... To get people interested.

Really it is a question of - do I make the website for viewer enjoyment, 
or for the widest viewer spectrum.

I am not sure if many of you would be in the same situation, but I can 
imagine it has come up at least once with us all before.
Whether its a news website, or a Hosting companies website...

My situation is a very sticky one - Clubbers dont want web standards, they 
want to see - what they can't have - lots of pictures help, and sounds are 
good (ambient music, on/off switch of course).

My website hasn't begun yet, although I have some rough ideas, one which 
my friend came up with:
http://www.equicom.net/chris/test.html
I think its great, doesnt use flash or anything.
It was an eye opener thinking it was as simple as it was.
It works in FireFox (exept sound) which is good...
But the fact that it looks good with such a simply design.

What are your opinions - and can you lend me any assistance.
Web Standars are very important to me, and I would much rather use 
standards compliant code, than make 10 extra people per 100 happy because 
there is a boxed layout (like the demo website)...
I could code that in CSS, but it wouldn't be as solid as it is with Tables.

Anyway!
Let me know what you all think!
Cheers!
Chris Stratford.
web-arts: the art & craft of web design
http://www.web-arts.biz 

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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
* 

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Re: [WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment

[Jeff Davies]

Horses for courses - you build what will attract your client's audience - 
if the client requires a site for a niche audience with it's own 
characteristics (as long as these are known not just assumed) then a lot of 
the usual cliches about not losing part of the potential audience MAY not 
apply. There must be some people out there who actually like sitting 
through flash animations - just like the movie companies must have done 
audience research that proves that most of us like sitting through endless 
clever animated sequences that eventually get you to the menu screen on a DVD.

When I started working on websites the woman who took me on said just 
remember that there are millions of idiots out there who will burn up their 
phone bill and sit for ages waiting to see a fake image of Gillian 
Anderson's privates slowly reveal itself on screen but they're unlikely to 
be still waiting on your ever-so-neat price list and order form for home 
delivered pizza to materialise.

As basic advice it's worked for me
Jeff
06:28 05/06/2004, you wrote:
Hey list,
I have something which has been a major topic of discussion between a 
friend and I.
I am currently working on a promotions website - promoting for Sydney 
Nightclubs (R&B Scene)
To knuckle down and get to the point - Do I use webstandards and efficent 
coding to make the website...
Or do I use Flash, Verbose Table Layouts, Lots of Images & Animations 
etc... To get people interested.

Really it is a question of - do I make the website for viewer enjoyment, 
or for the widest viewer spectrum.

I am not sure if many of you would be in the same situation, but I can 
imagine it has come up at least once with us all before.
Whether its a news website, or a Hosting companies website...

My situation is a very sticky one - Clubbers dont want web standards, they 
want to see - what they can't have - lots of pictures help, and sounds are 
good (ambient music, on/off switch of course).

My website hasn't begun yet, although I have some rough ideas, one which 
my friend came up with:
http://www.equicom.net/chris/test.html
I think its great, doesnt use flash or anything.
It was an eye opener thinking it was as simple as it was.
It works in FireFox (exept sound) which is good...
But the fact that it looks good with such a simply design.

What are your opinions - and can you lend me any assistance.
Web Standars are very important to me, and I would much rather use 
standards compliant code, than make 10 extra people per 100 happy because 
there is a boxed layout (like the demo website)...
I could code that in CSS, but it wouldn't be as solid as it is with Tables.

Anyway!
Let me know what you all think!
Cheers!
Chris Stratford.
web-arts: the art & craft of web design
http://www.web-arts.biz 

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for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
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Re: [WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment

[Chris Stratford]

Good points mike.

I know what you mean, and that was my original idea with the website.
although the websites I produced turned out to be - lets say - less
than ideal for the audience.
I know flash isn't totally inaccessible - but its not avaliable on
mobiles, its not always avaliable on PC's.
It can be inefficent, and it can be an annoyance - thats why I usually
steer clear.
Although I think for this project, i will use Flash for the title logo
- and I will have a Splash page (yeah I hate them too).
But the splash page will have a link - SKIP this intro.
That link will save a cookie - and that splash page will not be seen
again (1 year cookie).

Good tips and nice ideas!
Thanks a lot for your input!
Greatly appreciated!

Chris Stratford

Mike Pepper wrote:

  
  
  
  Chris, look at it this way: they're all going to
be tripping, anyway, so you're just doubling up on the psychedelic
experience :o)
   
  Don't do it. Go standards. My stepson's heading
a D & B/Jungle unit so I've got to dip more than a toe into that
environment very shortly. I didn't even consider using anything but
standards-compliant accessible markup when the build request arose.
Yes, it is challenging to go standards when the glamour of Flash
beckons but consider this: if you want to send SMS alerts to cell
phones you're gonna use text. And when they hit the site they're gonna
want quick access and not huge cell phone bills. Consider the practical
commercial aspects of what you're looking to achieve. Give them what
they really want: a list of what's on and where in the clubber scene in
Sydney. Make it useful; make it functional. Then you can consider all
the 'Wow, that's cool' bits with CSS rollovers, etc.
   
  (Incidentally, well written Flash does not mean
inaccessible; it's just another tool.)
   
  Mike Pepper
  Accessible Web Developer (on a roll)
  www.seowebsitepromotion.com
  www.gawds.org
   

RE: [WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment

[Mike Pepper]

Chris, 
look at it this way: they're all going to be tripping, anyway, so you're just 
doubling up on the psychedelic experience :o)
 
Don't 
do it. Go standards. My stepson's heading a D & B/Jungle unit so I've got to 
dip more than a toe into that environment very shortly. I didn't even consider 
using anything but standards-compliant accessible markup when the build 
request arose. Yes, it is challenging to go standards when the glamour of Flash 
beckons but consider this: if you want to send SMS alerts to cell phones you're 
gonna use text. And when they hit the site they're gonna want quick access and 
not huge cell phone bills. Consider the practical commercial aspects of what 
you're looking to achieve. Give them what they really want: a list of what's on 
and where in the clubber scene in Sydney. Make it useful; make it functional. 
Then you can consider all the 'Wow, that's cool' bits with CSS rollovers, 
etc.
 
(Incidentally, well written Flash does not mean inaccessible; it's just 
another tool.)
 
Mike 
Pepper
Accessible Web Developer (on a roll)
www.seowebsitepromotion.com
www.gawds.org
 

Re: [WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment

[Chris Stratford]

I know what you mean about the "I'll take the embed tag"
- I can relate there, so much effort for such a small validation.
I would rather just not have my footer with: "STANDARDS COMPLIANT" on
that one page... LoL...

thanks for the input!
cheers!

Chris Stratford

Sean M. Hall AKA Dante wrote:

  RE:[WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment 
  "Use to force [of
Web Standards]" 
  
  
And if that doesn't work there's always good ol "eennie meenie miney
mo" 
  
Standards-based sites can be flashy, personally I wouldn't mess around
with that "Flash Satay" stuff - I'll take the embed tag, thank you very
much (that is assuming I ever use Flash - I probably never will, I
wasn't never good with animation). 
  

Re: [WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment

[Chris Stratford]

Yes, thanks!

I was going to have these areas:
- Upcoming Events,
- Forums,
- Guestbook, [maybe a forum thread?]
- Member Pages [free passes etc...],
- Photo Album (if I get around to taking Pix)

And a news reel with contact panel etc...

t94xr.net.nz webmaster wrote:

  
  
  
  
  I would recommend you do both - have
a standards compliant accessable site, but include an interactive area.
  A xhtml/css &
php/mysql "photobook" with the club at certian nights - preferably the
peak holiday periods.
   
  Give them the best of both worlds. a
quick loading site with an area where they can have alot more
interactive with the site. A
guestbook would be excellent aswell. runnnig off a db accessed both by
the interactive area and the xhtml css area.
   
  Camz
   
  - Original Message - 
  
From:
Chris
Stratford 
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent:
Saturday, June 05, 2004 5:28 PM
    Subject:
[WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment


Hey list,

I have something which has been a major topic of discussion between a
friend and I.
I am currently working on a promotions website - promoting for Sydney
Nightclubs (R&B Scene)
To knuckle down and get to the point - Do I use webstandards and
efficent coding to make the website...
Or do I use Flash, Verbose Table Layouts, Lots of Images &
Animations etc... To get people interested.

Really it is a question of - do I make the website for viewer
enjoyment, or for the widest viewer spectrum.

I am not sure if many of you would be in the same situation, but I can
imagine it has come up at least once with us all before.
Whether its a news website, or a Hosting companies website...

My situation is a very sticky one - Clubbers dont want web standards,
they want to see - what they can't have - lots of pictures help, and
sounds are good (ambient music, on/off switch of course).

My website hasn't begun yet, although I have some rough ideas, one
which my friend came up with:
http://www.equicom.net/chris/test.html
I think its great, doesnt use flash or anything.
It was an eye opener thinking it was as simple as it was.
It works in FireFox (exept sound) which is good...
But the fact that it looks good with such a simply design.


What are your opinions - and can you lend me any assistance.
Web Standars are very important to me, and I would much rather use
standards compliant code, than make 10 extra people per 100 happy
because there is a boxed layout (like the demo website)...
I could code that in CSS, but it wouldn't be as solid as it is with
Tables.

Anyway!
Let me know what you all think!

Cheers!

Chris Stratford.

Re: [WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment

[Chris Stratford]

That was my originaly thought...
I am still contemplating what to do.

I really want to make it look appealing - and yet still compliant.

Good point that the graphics are still all the same - regardless of the
code.
Something I may have forgotten.
Well you have some very good points which I appreciate!
Thanks very much!


- Chris Stratford


Kay Smoljak wrote:

  Chris Stratford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
  
  
To knuckle down and get to the point - Do I use webstandards and 
efficent coding to make the website...
Or do I use Flash, Verbose Table Layouts, Lots of Images & Animations 
etc... To get people interested.

  
  
Don't get suckered into the myth that standards based web sites can't look as
good as old-school tag soup sites. That's what people who can't be bothered
learning something new use as an argument. 

I maintain that the actual web sites you produce should not look any different
just because you are using standards. Until someone views source (or tries a
browser other than IE or uses a screen reader etc), no one should know what
you've done. 

When I started getting our team to start coding to the standards, I didn't
even mention it to the designers - I got the coders to change the way they
were creating the sites.  The graphic designers are still producing the same
kinds of things that they did before.

 
--
Kay Smoljak
http://www.glyfx.com


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Re: RE:[WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

Title: RE:[WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment



Wooops the link in the other email is 
actually...
http://www.taupowebdesigns.co.nz/
 
sorry :$
 
Camz
www.t94xr.net.nz

Re: [WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

> Don't get suckered into the myth that standards based web sites can't look
as
> good as old-school tag soup sites. That's what people who can't be
bothered
> learning something new use as an argument.

Quite true but they dont have the interactivity as flash does. flash isnt
good for hte main actual site, but most are including an interactive version
of the site for those kinds of people.

> I maintain that the actual web sites you produce should not look any
different
> just because you are using standards. Until someone views source (or tries
a
> browser other than IE or uses a screen reader etc), no one should know
what
> you've done.
Yes, flash does have it advantages, but most of the TOP high premium
websiets that you can buy today area all XHTML/CSS. Very few using flash.
Many of the other XHTML CSS websites are pinicles of webdesign today. A List
Apart & Zeldman proove this. There websites are what people should be trying
to achieve. Although they do admit flash is good in ceritan areas. Vincent
Flanders even said it one time, he makes the point that flash is to be used
in areas where it isnt a problem to use it & used right it is quite
effective.

> When I started getting our team to start coding to the standards, I didn't
> even mention it to the designers - I got the coders to change the way they
> were creating the sites.  The graphic designers are still producing the
same
> kinds of things that they did before.

I know of many graphic designers who have attempted to literally build there
sites in Photoshop - fairly good sites- 500px wide and a good length long.
But then again i also know of webcoders/designers who dont know crap and get
into the industry www.taupowebdesigners.co.nz (i dont know here i just
offered to help her and got slammed back.) - many webdesigners arent
openminded to go standards compliant aswell - good reminder...
Graphics designers have to know the coding side, the coding is restrictive
to what a designer is able to do for a website. If he builds a site that is
almost impossible to code or is far to complicated, no point.
Its good to have Graphic designers who know the coding limitations &
understand there is a limit.

In the end, Photoshop was never published to build sites, Dreamweaver was.
Sadly MANY graphic designers never actually catch on to that concept and get
into the webdesign industry missing the graphic/media design industry.

Although thats good - although i would have got atleast one standards
compliant coder to help upskill the others. most webdesign agencies expect
the coders to upskill while in the middle of coding all of this work.
It took me almost a year before i became standards compliant - and then i
was a bit sketchy. I did it bymyself.

Camz.
www.t94xr.net.nz


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RE[WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment

[Sean M. Hall AKA Dante]

Title: RE[WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment 
The last part of my mail should've read "I was never good with animation"; sorry for the error (it's 11:30 PM here in San Francisco right now). 

Re: RE:[WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

Title: RE:[WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment



I played around with flash - in a wk i made blue 
box move from one side to another :D!!

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Sean M. Hall AKA 
  Dante 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 6:14 
  PM
  Subject: RE:[WSG] Standards Compliance 
  -vs- User Enjoyment
  "Use to force 
  [of Web Standards]" And if that doesn't work there's always good 
  ol "eennie meenie miney mo" Standards-based sites can be flashy, 
  personally I wouldn't mess around with that "Flash Satay" stuff - I'll take 
  the embed tag, thank you very much (that is assuming I ever use Flash - I 
  probably never will, I wasn't never good with animation). 

RE:[WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment

[Sean M. Hall AKA Dante]

Title: RE:[WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment 
"Use to force [of Web Standards]" 
 
 
And if that doesn't work there's always good ol "eennie meenie miney mo" 
 
Standards-based sites can be flashy, personally I wouldn't mess around with that "Flash Satay" stuff - I'll take the embed tag, thank you very much (that is assuming I ever use Flash - I probably never will, I wasn't never good with animation). 
 

Re: [WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment

[Kay Smoljak]

Chris Stratford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> To knuckle down and get to the point - Do I use webstandards and 
> efficent coding to make the website...
> Or do I use Flash, Verbose Table Layouts, Lots of Images & Animations 
> etc... To get people interested.

Don't get suckered into the myth that standards based web sites can't look as
good as old-school tag soup sites. That's what people who can't be bothered
learning something new use as an argument. 

I maintain that the actual web sites you produce should not look any different
just because you are using standards. Until someone views source (or tries a
browser other than IE or uses a screen reader etc), no one should know what
you've done. 

When I started getting our team to start coding to the standards, I didn't
even mention it to the designers - I got the coders to change the way they
were creating the sites.  The graphic designers are still producing the same
kinds of things that they did before.

 
--
Kay Smoljak
http://www.glyfx.com


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Re: [WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment

[t94xr.net.nz webmaster]

I would recommend you do both - have a standards 
compliant accessable site, but include an interactive area.
A xhtml/css & php/mysql "photobook" with 
the club at certian nights - preferably the peak holiday periods.
 
Give them the best of both worlds. a quick loading 
site with an area where they can have alot more interactive with the site. 
A guestbook would be excellent aswell. runnnig 
off a db accessed both by the interactive area and the xhtml css 
area.
 
Camz
 
- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Chris 
  Stratford 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 5:28 
  PM
  Subject: [WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- 
  User Enjoyment
  Hey list,I have something 
  which has been a major topic of discussion between a friend and I.I am 
  currently working on a promotions website - promoting for Sydney Nightclubs 
  (R&B Scene)To knuckle down and get to the point - Do I use 
  webstandards and efficent coding to make the website...Or do I use Flash, 
  Verbose Table Layouts, Lots of Images & Animations etc... To get people 
  interested.Really it is a question of - do I make the website for 
  viewer enjoyment, or for the widest viewer spectrum.I am not sure if 
  many of you would be in the same situation, but I can imagine it has come up 
  at least once with us all before.Whether its a news website, or a Hosting 
  companies website...My situation is a very sticky one - Clubbers dont 
  want web standards, they want to see - what they can't have - lots of pictures 
  help, and sounds are good (ambient music, on/off switch of course).My 
  website hasn't begun yet, although I have some rough ideas, one which my 
  friend came up with:http://www.equicom.net/chris/test.htmlI 
  think its great, doesnt use flash or anything.It was an eye opener 
  thinking it was as simple as it was.It works in FireFox (exept sound) 
  which is good...But the fact that it looks good with such a simply 
  design.What are your opinions - and can you lend me any 
  assistance.Web Standars are very important to me, and I would much rather 
  use standards compliant code, than make 10 extra people per 100 happy because 
  there is a boxed layout (like the demo website)...I could code that in 
  CSS, but it wouldn't be as solid as it is with Tables.Anyway!Let 
  me know what you all think!Cheers!Chris 
Stratford.

[WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment

[Chris Stratford]

Hey list,

I have something which has been a major topic of discussion between a
friend and I.
I am currently working on a promotions website - promoting for Sydney
Nightclubs (R&B Scene)
To knuckle down and get to the point - Do I use webstandards and
efficent coding to make the website...
Or do I use Flash, Verbose Table Layouts, Lots of Images &
Animations etc... To get people interested.

Really it is a question of - do I make the website for viewer
enjoyment, or for the widest viewer spectrum.

I am not sure if many of you would be in the same situation, but I can
imagine it has come up at least once with us all before.
Whether its a news website, or a Hosting companies website...

My situation is a very sticky one - Clubbers dont want web standards,
they want to see - what they can't have - lots of pictures help, and
sounds are good (ambient music, on/off switch of course).

My website hasn't begun yet, although I have some rough ideas, one
which my friend came up with:
http://www.equicom.net/chris/test.html
I think its great, doesnt use flash or anything.
It was an eye opener thinking it was as simple as it was.
It works in FireFox (exept sound) which is good...
But the fact that it looks good with such a simply design.


What are your opinions - and can you lend me any assistance.
Web Standars are very important to me, and I would much rather use
standards compliant code, than make 10 extra people per 100 happy
because there is a boxed layout (like the demo website)...
I could code that in CSS, but it wouldn't be as solid as it is with
Tables.

Anyway!
Let me know what you all think!

Cheers!

Chris Stratford.