Re: [WSG] o & 0
On 3/4/06, Vicki Berry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > My own main bugbear is in product serial numbers where there is a > mixture of numbers and letters. It's all very well knowing that O is > rounder than 0, but if you don't have one of each to compare, it can > be very hit-and-miss. I'm sure there must be many other situations on > and off the web where usability is impaired in this way. We've excluded these characters (0,o,1,l,i, and maybe a handful of others I don't recall) for the Sunrise Family website [1] wherever randomly generated (reset) passwords are sent out to users. This would definitely have had an impact on feedback + phonecalls to 7: it's difficult to underestimate the stupidity of large numbers of people. Of course, we can only catch so many problems. The first week of the site's life was characterised by messages from people saying "I entered my ISP username/password and can't login... why?" Heh. (A few extra "REGISTER" links have been scattered around the place since!) Sigh. Josh ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] o & 0
Lea de Groot wrote: My main bugbear with such issues is things like Captchas. Captchas... argh! A web accessibility blight on the face of the earth. :-) My own main bugbear is in product serial numbers where there is a mixture of numbers and letters. It's all very well knowing that O is rounder than 0, but if you don't have one of each to compare, it can be very hit-and-miss. I'm sure there must be many other situations on and off the web where usability is impaired in this way. -- Vicki Berry DistinctiveWeb Web: http://www.distinctiveweb.com.au Blog: http://www.unheardword.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] o & 0
At 03:30 PM 3/3/2006, Chris Kennon wrote: A accessibility/usability quirk was posed to me and led to a "me neither" response. I've yet to encounter a font for the web that has a distinction between the uppercase letter O and the number 0. If such a font exist, which is it? Checking quickly: Arial, Avant Garde, ...Times Roman, and most other proportional fonts on my system. What fonts have you checked? Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] o & 0
On 04/03/2006, at 1:51 PM, Christian Montoya wrote: If the concern is that the number 0 would be excused for the letter O in a block of text, I can see the issue, but I'm certain that English style manuals say that one digit numbers like 0 in sentences should be spelled out. My main bugbear with such issues is things like Captchas. I appreciate it when the developer takes care to exclude o,0,1,I,l from the possible letters, as I am really bad at guessing which of these an example might be :( In a sentence such as 'you have 0 items in your cart'. one is unlikely to mistake 0 for o. -- Lea de Groot Brisbane, Australia ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] o & 0
On 3/3/06, Chris Kennon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > A accessibility/usability quirk was posed to me and led to a "me > neither" response. I've yet to encounter a font for the web that has > a distinction between the uppercase letter O and the number 0. If > such a font exist, which is it? If the concern is that the number 0 would be excused for the letter O in a block of text, I can see the issue, but I'm certain that English style manuals say that one digit numbers like 0 in sentences should be spelled out. So in a table of data you would have 0 along with other numbers, but in the following sentence: The cat has 0 balls of yarn. You should not use the number, but rather "zero" or "none." And in the following data returned from a database: You have 0 items in your cart. There should have been a check for zero, with the alternate text returned: Your cart is empty. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com ... cssliquid.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] o & 0
On 4 Mar 2006, at 02:02, James Bennett wrote: On 3/3/06, Chris Kennon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: A accessibility/usability quirk was posed to me and led to a "me neither" response. I've yet to encounter a font for the web that has a distinction between the uppercase letter O and the number 0. If such a font exist, which is it? My first thought was that if it's extremely important, switch to a monospace font because they typically have a slash through the zero to distinguish it. Unfortunately, Courier New -- the most likely thing a PC user will see if you set font to 'monospace' -- doesn't do that :( Monaco, which is the default monospace font on Macs, does use a slashed zero, however, and so does Bitstream Vera Sans Mono, which is coming to be the most common default monospace font under Linux. The (currently) default monospace font for windows Vista will be called consolas, this has a slashed 0 Stephen ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] o & 0
On 3/3/06, Chris Kennon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > A accessibility/usability quirk was posed to me and led to a "me > neither" response. I've yet to encounter a font for the web that has > a distinction between the uppercase letter O and the number 0. If > such a font exist, which is it? My first thought was that if it's extremely important, switch to a monospace font because they typically have a slash through the zero to distinguish it. Unfortunately, Courier New -- the most likely thing a PC user will see if you set font to 'monospace' -- doesn't do that :( Monaco, which is the default monospace font on Macs, does use a slashed zero, however, and so does Bitstream Vera Sans Mono, which is coming to be the most common default monospace font under Linux. -- "May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house." -- George Carlin ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] o & 0
On 06/03/03 18:30 Chris Kennon apparently typed: A accessibility/usability quirk was posed to me and led to a "me neither" response. I've yet to encounter a font for the web that has a distinction between the uppercase letter O and the number 0. If such a font exist, which is it? Upper case O seems consistently wider than zero in common web fonts: http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/Font/fonts-face-commons-0oO.html -- "Blessed are they whose ways are blameless, who walk according to the law of the Lord." Psalm 119:11 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/auth ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] o & 0
On 3/4/06, Jens Brueckmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > a font for the web that has a distinction between the > > uppercase letter O and the number 0. > > If such a font exist, which is it? Georgia uses pretty much the same shape for o, 0 and O, but lower-case is small, zero is bigger, and capital is largest. A distinction, though not always a helpful one. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] o & 0
> a font for the web that has a distinction between the > uppercase letter O and the number 0. > If such a font exist, which is it? Distinction - in which way? Have a look at Arial, uppercase letter O is nearly round while number 0 is distinctly oval. Cheers, jens -- Jens Brueckmann http://www.yalf.de ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] o & 0
Hi, A accessibility/usability quirk was posed to me and led to a "me neither" response. I've yet to encounter a font for the web that has a distinction between the uppercase letter O and the number 0. If such a font exist, which is it? Respectfully, Chris ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
