Re: [WSG] quot; or in copy?
On 16 Feb 2005, at 22:16, Dmitry Baranovskiy wrote: Actually " is an inch symbol. For quotes we should use #147; and #148; in normal text. ″ - The double prime. U+2033. The inch ′ - The prime. U+2032. The foot http://mathworld.wolfram.com/DoublePrime.html Taken from http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/sgml/entities.html (quote level altered) !ENTITY primeCDATA "#8242;" -- prime = minutes = feet, U+2032 ISOtech -- !ENTITY PrimeCDATA "#8243;" -- double prime = seconds = inches, U+2033 ISOtech -- " - The double quote (straight/neutral) ' - The apostrophe or single quote There are also the obvious left right, double single quotes !ENTITY quotCDATA "#34;" -- quotation mark = APL quote, U+0022 ISOnum -- -- Paul Connolley - http://shunuk.co.uk/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] quot; or in copy?
Additionally: Taken from http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/intro/sgmltut.html which is an overview of looking at SGML Content model definitions The content model describes what may be contained by an instance of an element type. Content model definitions may include: The names of allowed or forbidden element types (e.g., the UL element contains instances of the LI element type, and the P element type may not contain other P elements). DTD entities (e.g., the LABEL element contains instances of the %inline; parameter entity). Document text (indicated by the SGML construct #PCDATA). Text may contain character references. Recall that these begin with and end with a semicolon (e.g., Hergeacute;'s adventures of Tintin contains the character entity reference for the e acute character). Emphasis on Document text - PCDATA. Text **may** contain character references. This doesn't imply that all of the four main html entities have to be encoded (, , , and ). Note this document originally applied to HTML but is as relevant to XHTML if you please. The only important consideration is that ampersands be encoded correctly in HTML and XHTML. -- Paul Connolley - http://shunuk.co.uk/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] quot; or in copy?
Paul Connolley mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] on Thursday, February 17, 2005 11:52 AM said: Emphasis on Document text - PCDATA. Text **may** contain character references. This doesn't imply that all of the four main html entities have to be encoded (, , , and ). Note this document originally applied to HTML but is as relevant to XHTML if you please. The only important consideration is that ampersands be encoded correctly in HTML and XHTML. So then is the consesus that encoding only the ampersand within regular body text is necessary and all other encodings are superfluous (excluding obvious necessities like value=quot;)? Thanks, Chris. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] quot; or in copy?
I've just asked the W3C Validator. Test based on XHTML Strict.
PCDATA, document text (plike that/p):
allows '' and '' everywhere,
allows, but warns about '' with non-letter after it (' ', 'tag',
'123', '# ' are fine),
does not allow '' followed by a letter.
CDATA, attribute text (a href=this one):
allows '', if '\'' is used for quoting attribute (that='is ok'),
'', '' same like in PCDATA,
allows, but warns about '' (including attr=nontag).
--
regards, Kornel Lesiski
http://browsehappy.pl
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[WSG] quot; or in copy?
Hello, Is there a reason I should be using quot; (or any other HTML entity) within regular tags like p, hx, li, etc.? I know I have to use them when they are to be displayed within a form field but within regular copy I'm not seeing it as necessary. What is the consesus on this? Thanks, Chris. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] quot; or in copy?
I don't know about quot; but if you use instead of amp; it will break your xml pages (i.e. a href='some.com/page.php?a=bc=d' *must* be a href='some.com/page.php?a=bamp;c=d' in xml) -Alan Trick Chris W. Parker wrote: Hello, Is there a reason I should be using quot; (or any other HTML entity) within regular tags like p, hx, li, etc.? I know I have to use them when they are to be displayed within a form field but within regular copy I'm not seeing it as necessary. What is the consesus on this? Thanks, Chris. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] quot; or in copy?
Chris W. Parker wrote: Hello, Is there a reason I should be using quot; (or any other HTML entity) within regular tags like p, hx, li, etc.? I know I have to use them when they are to be displayed within a form field but within regular copy I'm not seeing it as necessary. What is the consesus on this? I'm guessing you mean like this: element attribute=this contains a quote woo! / Well, no... is only meant to be used to delimit attribute values, you /might/ get away with using it insice body text: phello, he said hello to me yesterday/p But officially when isn't being used to delimit attribute values it must be written in entity form: quot; HTH -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] quot; or in copy?
David R mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 11:58 AM said: you /might/ get away with using it insice body text: phello, he said hello to me yesterday/p Yes that's what I'm referring to. But officially when isn't being used to delimit attribute values it must be written in entity form: quot; Reference? Thanks! Chris. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] quot; or in copy?
But officially when isn't being used to delimit attribute values it must be written in entity form: quot; Reference? My bad... XHTML1.1 derives from XHTML1.0 Strict which derives from HTML4.01 Strict ...Which mentions this about quote entities: --- http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/charset.html#h-5.3.2 --- Four character entity references deserve special mention since they are frequently used to escape special characters: * lt; represents the sign. * gt; represents the sign. * amp; represents the sign. * quot; represents the mark. ... Some authors use the character entity reference quot; to encode instances of the double quote mark () since that character may be used to delimit attribute values. --- So its official... its not required in HTML4.01, but sort-of 'recommended'. I couldn't find anything about it in XHTML1.1, but imho, I wouldn't risk it. -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] quot; or in copy?
Actually is an inch symbol. For quotes we should use #147; and #148; in normal text. -- Best regards, Dmitry Baranovskiy ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] quot; or in copy?
Dmitry Baranovskiy mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 2:16 PM said: Actually is an inch symbol. For quotes we should use #147; and #148; in normal text. Interesting point. Chris. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] quot; or in copy?
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 09:16:09 +1100, Dmitry Baranovskiy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually is an inch symbol. For quotes we should use #147; and #148; in normal text. And when you have already this far, I would say, *free your mind from eight bit* and use unicode :) (Takes less space and is better to read then #147;entity references#148;, not to mention all the other benefits...) - Rene Saarsoo ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] quot; or in copy?
At 02:16 PM 2/16/2005, Dmitry Baranovskiy wrote: Actually is an inch symbol. For quotes we should use #147; and #148; in normal text. I thought #147; and #147; were deprecated in HTML4. I use: #8216; = left single quote #8217; = right single quote (apostrophe) #8220; = left double quote #8221; = right double quote etc. See http://www.ascii.cl/htmlcodes.htm Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] quot; or in copy?
I thought #147; and #147; were deprecated in HTML4. I use: #8216; = left single quote #8217; = right single quote (apostrophe) #8220; = left double quote #8221; = right double quote etc. See http://www.ascii.cl/htmlcodes.htm Doesn't this go against the semantics of XHTML? Use of entities in documents prevents the XHTML from being human-readable (of sorts... I'm not going to memorise the ASCII, Unicode, or UTF character tables) ...As well as adding to the document overhead? I mean, provided you send the document from the server as unicode, why must we resort to entities for non-reserved characters? (ie: ) -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] quot; or in copy?
On 17 feb 2005, at 03.14, David R wrote: I mean, provided you send the document from the server as unicode, why must we resort to entities for non-reserved characters? You don't. If you use unicode, you don't have to use character references. /Roger ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
