Re: [WSG] ADA Compliant Flash
2008/7/7 Steve Green [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Or is it likely to be similar to the DDA in the UK, which is concerned with actual outcomes rather than a technical standard? Under the DDA it doesn't matter if a website is AAA-compliant (if such a thing were possible); a person can still bring an action if the website was not accessible to them (although there is no guarantee they will win). Only a court can decide if the website met the law or not. Steve I suspect that once WCAG 2.0 becomes a recommendation, its testable nature will mean that it is much easier for governments to require a certain level be reached. At least, in theory anyway. UK government websites are currently required (internally, not legally) to reach level AA of WCAG 1.0. There was recently a suggestion that those which failed to do so would be stripped of their .gov.uk domain names, but this has subsequently been watered down and the deadline extended. David *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] ADA Compliant Flash
On 7 Jul 2008, at 15:50, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To answer your question, I think the general feeling is that if you wish to produce an accessible site, then it is far easier to build flashy effects accessibly with CSS etc than to make FLASH accessible. As far as I know, the accessibility features of Flash are not bad (although somewhat Windows-centric), it's just that most authors don't use them. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] ADA Compliant Flash
On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 10:50 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am sure that there are still several people in the world still actively programming in ADA... To answer your question, I think the general feeling is that if you wish to produce an accessible site, then it is far easier to build flashy effects accessibly with CSS etc than to make FLASH accessible. Regards, Mike Yes. I know all this. But sometimes, it's just beyond one's power to change the project at hand, and must do the best he/she can. If anyone knows if it is possible to make a Flash file ADA compliant, and if ANY file can pass ADA (i.e. does a passing Flash file have to be very simple/lack-luster), I'd love to hear about it and see some resources. Thanks -- Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] ADA Compliant Flash
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Livingston Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 8:04 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] ADA Compliant Flash On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 10:50 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am sure that there are still several people in the world still actively programming in ADA... To answer your question, I think the general feeling is that if you wish to produce an accessible site, then it is far easier to build flashy effects accessibly with CSS etc than to make FLASH accessible. Regards, Mike Yes. I know all this. But sometimes, it's just beyond one's power to change the project at hand, and must do the best he/she can. If anyone knows if it is possible to make a Flash file ADA compliant, and if ANY file can pass ADA (i.e. does a passing Flash file have to be very simple/lack-luster), I'd love to hear about it and see some resources. Hi Tom, You may want to read Bob Regan's white paper: http://www.adobe.com/resources/accessibility/best_practices/bp_fp.html (PDF file) Some good info here too: http://www.adobe.com/accessibility/products/flash/ -- Regards, Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] ADA Compliant Flash
If ADA requires compliance with Section 508 (and I am not sure if it does), then you would need to provide the content in an alternative, accessible format regardless of how accessible the Flash version is. My reasoning is thus: Checkpoint m) of Section 508 states When a web page requires that an applet, plug-in or other application be present on the client system to interpret page content, the page must provide a link to a plug-in or applet that complies with ยง1194.21(a) through (l). Clearly it is not possible to provide such a link for user agents that do not support Flash, so in my opinion this checkpoint cannot be met for any Flash-based content. Checkpoint k) states A text-only page, with equivalent information or functionality, shall be provided to make a web site comply with the provisions of this part, when compliance cannot be accomplished in any other way. The content of the text-only page shall be updated whenever the primary page changes. This would appear to allow you to achieve compliance, albeit in a rather sub-optimal manner. On a separate issue, can I take the opportunity to advertise a permanent job vacancy for a website tester / accessibility tester / consultant. This is a mid-level to senior position based on London and I am offering a substantial finders fee for anyone who can introduce a candidate that we recruit. Full details are available on request. Steve Green Labscape www.labscape.co.uk -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Livingston Sent: 07 July 2008 15:37 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] ADA Compliant Flash Hello list, Is it possible to have an ADA (no, not the dentists' thing) compliant Flash site? Anyone have a good resource, if it is possible? All my searching has resulted in the feeling that this subject is one people avoid. -- Tom Livingston | Senior Interactive Developer | Media Logic | ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] ADA Compliant Flash
Clarification. Section 508 and ADA are about as different as fishes and bicycles in intent, direction, scope and application. Section 508 is part of Rehabilitation Act of 1973, as amended. It only applies to US Government web sites and those sites built/maintained with (US) federal tax dollars. ADA is shorthand for the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990, as amended. The prevailing point of view (until recently) is ADA has nothing to do with the web. However the Target.com court case and other (US) state thoughts are that ADA applies to all web sites within its jurisdiction. Time will tell on this point. Dennis Lapcewich USDA Forest Service Webmaster DRM Civil Rights POC R6 Web Accessibility Monitoring Program Pacific Northwest Region - Vancouver, WA 360-891-5024 - Voice | 360-891-5045 - Fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it. -- Anonymous [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 07/07/2008 09:10:49 AM: If ADA requires compliance with Section 508 (and I am not sure if it does), then you would need to provide the content in an alternative, accessible format regardless of how accessible the Flash version is. My reasoning is thus: *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] ADA Compliant Flash
Thanks for the clarification Dennis. If it turns out that ADA does cover websites, what would be the test for compliance? Or is it likely to be similar to the DDA in the UK, which is concerned with actual outcomes rather than a technical standard? Under the DDA it doesn't matter if a website is AAA-compliant (if such a thing were possible); a person can still bring an action if the website was not accessible to them (although there is no guarantee they will win). Only a court can decide if the website met the law or not. Steve -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dennis Lapcewich Sent: 07 July 2008 21:50 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] ADA Compliant Flash Clarification. Section 508 and ADA are about as different as fishes and bicycles in intent, direction, scope and application. Section 508 is part of Rehabilitation Act of 1973, as amended. It only applies to US Government web sites and those sites built/maintained with (US) federal tax dollars. ADA is shorthand for the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990, as amended. The prevailing point of view (until recently) is ADA has nothing to do with the web. However the Target.com court case and other (US) state thoughts are that ADA applies to all web sites within its jurisdiction. Time will tell on this point. Dennis Lapcewich USDA Forest Service Webmaster DRM Civil Rights POC R6 Web Accessibility Monitoring Program Pacific Northwest Region - Vancouver, WA 360-891-5024 - Voice | 360-891-5045 - Fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it. -- Anonymous [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 07/07/2008 09:10:49 AM: If ADA requires compliance with Section 508 (and I am not sure if it does), then you would need to provide the content in an alternative, accessible format regardless of how accessible the Flash version is. My reasoning is thus: *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
