Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[Michael Horowitz]

Your problem is government doesn't care about what works for users.  I'm 
suprised it works on Firefox and IE 6 but not 7 as I thought 7 was more 
not less standards compliant.  But most businesses that actually make 
money from the web will have to go with the market and work with the 
latest release of IE.



Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079



Keryx Web wrote:

aleagi skrev:

Hello Mike,

I agree with you.

There's a lot of users still working in obsolete machines or/by
option, browsing with IE6.

That would be all of my colleagues - and me if I want to access the 
intranet for our town. It won't work in MSIE 7 (and hence not in MSIE 
8 with any switch.) I carry around FFox on a USB stick to avoid this 
nightmare.


Yes, I've complained. I have written about it in our local paper. I 
have pleaded. I have done everything in my power. What do the 
brainiacs at the IT department answer. "We don't see this as a 
problem. IE 6 works."


As long as all sites work in IE6/7 and some intranets won't work in 
any other, we are stuck. Let's do break the web - free from bad browsers!



Lars Gunther


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Re: [WSG] IE8 news - stats

[Ben Dodson]

As mentioned previously, people with illegal copies of XP can now upgrade to
IE7 -
http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2007/10/04/internet-explorer-7-update.aspx

Ben

-- 
e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
w: http://bendodson.com/


On 09/03/2008, Andrew Boyd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> John,
>
> most of the IE6 users I know are not thieves, they are clients that use
> IE6 as part of their SOE. One organisation alone has several thousand IE6
> users. They do not choose their browser, nor their O/S.
>
> Cheers, Andrew
>
> Andrew Boyd
> Consultant
> SMS Management & Technology
>
> M 0413 048 542
> T +61 2 6279 7100
> F +61 2 6279 7101
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> About SMS: Ground Floor, 8 Brindabella Circuit, CANBERRA
> AIRPORT  ACT  2609  www.smsmt.com
> SMS Management & Technology (SMS) [ASX:SMX] is Australia's largest,
> publicly listed Management Services company. We solve complex problems and
> transform business through Consulting, People and Technology
> 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of John Hancock [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, 9 March 2008 9:05 PM
> To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
> Subject: RE: [WSG] IE8 news - stats
>
>
> Consider that a fairly significant proportion of IE6 users cannot upgrade
> as
> they're using  illegal copies of Windows XP. One of my clients did a
> fairly
> large study (anonymous) where 18% of 10,000 users were using cracked
> copies
> of Windows - I'm just wondering how much that'd sway the stats. For
> myself,
> I'd be unwilling to support people who steal rather than go to linux-based
> operating systems. Unfortunately, it's impossible to tell the difference!
>
> John Hancock
> Identity
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Lea de Groot
> Sent: Sunday, 9 March 2008 7:01 PM
> To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
> Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 news - stats
>
> Well, if you'd like some stats from a .au site with very much
> non-technical, typically Australian-sourced traffic:
>
> 1.  Internet Explorer / Windows 44,549  80.32%
>
> 1.  7.0 23,965  53.77%
> 2.  6.0 20,507  46.01%
> 3.  5.5 47  0.11%
> 4.  5.0117  0.04%
> 5.  5.0 16  0.04%
> 6.  5.2311  0.02%
> 7.  4.5 3   0.01%
> 8.  4.012   > 0.00%
> 9.  5.222   > 0.00%
> 10. 4.0 1   > 0.00%
>
> 2.  Firefox / Windows   6,581   11.86%
> 3.  Safari / Macintosh  2,352   4.24%
> 4.  Firefox / Macintosh 828 1.49%
> 5.  Mozilla / Linux 623 1.12%
> 6.  Opera / Windows 150 0.27%
> 7.  Firefox / Linux 121 0.22%
> 8.  Mozilla / Windows   48  0.09%
> 9.  Konqueror / Linux   37  0.07%
> 10. Internet Explorer / Macintosh   24  0.04%
>
> So, 80% Windows IE, split between 7 & 6 - I too expect to see most of
> the IE7 users migrate to an IE8 Gold release quite quickly, but that
> IE6 will hang around for much longer.
>
> warmly,
> Lea
> --
> Lea de Groot
> Elysian Systems
> Brisbane, Australia
>
>
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>
> NOTICE - This communication is intended only for the person or entity to
> which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
> material.  Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or
> taking any action in reliance on, this communication by persons or entities
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> Management & Technology doe

RE: [WSG] IE8 news - stats

[Andrew Boyd]

John,

most of the IE6 users I know are not thieves, they are clients that use IE6 as 
part of their SOE. One organisation alone has several thousand IE6 users. They 
do not choose their browser, nor their O/S.

Cheers, Andrew

Andrew Boyd
Consultant
SMS Management & Technology

M 0413 048 542
T +61 2 6279 7100
F +61 2 6279 7101
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
About SMS: Ground Floor, 8 Brindabella Circuit, CANBERRA AIRPORT  ACT  2609  
www.smsmt.com
SMS Management & Technology (SMS) [ASX:SMX] is Australia's largest, publicly 
listed Management Services company. We solve complex problems and transform 
business through Consulting, People and Technology

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Hancock [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, 9 March 2008 9:05 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] IE8 news - stats

Consider that a fairly significant proportion of IE6 users cannot upgrade as
they're using  illegal copies of Windows XP. One of my clients did a fairly
large study (anonymous) where 18% of 10,000 users were using cracked copies
of Windows - I'm just wondering how much that'd sway the stats. For myself,
I'd be unwilling to support people who steal rather than go to linux-based
operating systems. Unfortunately, it's impossible to tell the difference!

John Hancock
Identity

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lea de Groot
Sent: Sunday, 9 March 2008 7:01 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 news - stats

Well, if you'd like some stats from a .au site with very much
non-technical, typically Australian-sourced traffic:

1.  Internet Explorer / Windows 44,549  80.32%

1.  7.0 23,965  53.77%
2.  6.0 20,507  46.01%
3.  5.5 47  0.11%
4.  5.0117  0.04%
5.  5.0 16  0.04%
6.  5.2311  0.02%
7.  4.5 3   0.01%
8.  4.012   > 0.00%
9.  5.222   > 0.00%
10. 4.0 1   > 0.00%

2.  Firefox / Windows   6,581   11.86%
3.  Safari / Macintosh  2,352   4.24%
4.  Firefox / Macintosh 828 1.49%
5.  Mozilla / Linux 623 1.12%
6.  Opera / Windows 150 0.27%
7.  Firefox / Linux 121 0.22%
8.  Mozilla / Windows   48  0.09%
9.  Konqueror / Linux   37  0.07%
10. Internet Explorer / Macintosh   24  0.04%

So, 80% Windows IE, split between 7 & 6 - I too expect to see most of
the IE7 users migrate to an IE8 Gold release quite quickly, but that
IE6 will hang around for much longer.

warmly,
Lea
--
Lea de Groot
Elysian Systems
Brisbane, Australia


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NOTICE - This communication is intended only for the person or entity to which 
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material.  Any 
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking any action in 
reliance on, this communication by persons or entities other than the intended 
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communication please delete and destroy all copies and telephone SMS Management 
& Technology on 9696 0911 immediately.  Any views expressed in this 
Communication are those of the individual sender, except where the sender 
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Except as required by law, SMS Management & Technology does not represent, 
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RE: [WSG] IE8 news - stats

[John Hancock]

Consider that a fairly significant proportion of IE6 users cannot upgrade as
they're using  illegal copies of Windows XP. One of my clients did a fairly
large study (anonymous) where 18% of 10,000 users were using cracked copies
of Windows - I'm just wondering how much that'd sway the stats. For myself,
I'd be unwilling to support people who steal rather than go to linux-based
operating systems. Unfortunately, it's impossible to tell the difference!

John Hancock
Identity

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lea de Groot
Sent: Sunday, 9 March 2008 7:01 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 news - stats

Well, if you'd like some stats from a .au site with very much 
non-technical, typically Australian-sourced traffic:

1.  Internet Explorer / Windows 44,549  80.32%  

1.  7.0 23,965  53.77%  
2.  6.0 20,507  46.01%  
3.  5.5 47  0.11%   
4.  5.0117  0.04%   
5.  5.0 16  0.04%   
6.  5.2311  0.02%   
7.  4.5 3   0.01%   
8.  4.012   > 0.00% 
9.  5.222   > 0.00% 
10. 4.0 1   > 0.00%

2.  Firefox / Windows   6,581   11.86%  
3.  Safari / Macintosh  2,352   4.24%   
4.  Firefox / Macintosh 828 1.49%   
5.  Mozilla / Linux 623 1.12%   
6.  Opera / Windows 150 0.27%   
7.  Firefox / Linux 121 0.22%   
8.  Mozilla / Windows   48  0.09%   
9.  Konqueror / Linux   37  0.07%   
10. Internet Explorer / Macintosh   24  0.04%

So, 80% Windows IE, split between 7 & 6 - I too expect to see most of 
the IE7 users migrate to an IE8 Gold release quite quickly, but that 
IE6 will hang around for much longer.

warmly,
Lea
-- 
Lea de Groot
Elysian Systems
Brisbane, Australia


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Re: [WSG] IE8 news - stats

[Lea de Groot]

Well, if you'd like some stats from a .au site with very much 
non-technical, typically Australian-sourced traffic:

1.  Internet Explorer / Windows 44,549  80.32%  

1.  7.0 23,965  53.77%  
2.  6.0 20,507  46.01%  
3.  5.5 47  0.11%   
4.  5.0117  0.04%   
5.  5.0 16  0.04%   
6.  5.2311  0.02%   
7.  4.5 3   0.01%   
8.  4.012   > 0.00% 
9.  5.222   > 0.00% 
10. 4.0 1   > 0.00%

2.  Firefox / Windows   6,581   11.86%  
3.  Safari / Macintosh  2,352   4.24%   
4.  Firefox / Macintosh 828 1.49%   
5.  Mozilla / Linux 623 1.12%   
6.  Opera / Windows 150 0.27%   
7.  Firefox / Linux 121 0.22%   
8.  Mozilla / Windows   48  0.09%   
9.  Konqueror / Linux   37  0.07%   
10. Internet Explorer / Macintosh   24  0.04%

So, 80% Windows IE, split between 7 & 6 - I too expect to see most of 
the IE7 users migrate to an IE8 Gold release quite quickly, but that 
IE6 will hang around for much longer.

warmly,
Lea
-- 
Lea de Groot
Elysian Systems
Brisbane, Australia


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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[tee]

On Mar 8, 2008, at 9:12 AM, Kevin Arrowsmith wrote:

I also found IE8 to be very slow, not so much typing in it but  
rollover
effects on links, even small things like underline text when the  
mouse goes
over it, also going from one page to another seemed slow. I even  
managed to

crash it when I went to a windows sharepoint site.

Kevin





I had iE8 Beta ran in Parallels Desktop, the first time it ran ok  
after the installation, abit slow though. I shut down the Parallels by  
the end of the day, the next day when I tried running the Windows, it  
took almost 15 minutes to start up the XP and I couldn't do anything  
on Mac during the startup; after that everything was very slow on both  
Windows and Leopard. I uninstalled the IE8, which took over 30  
minutes, after than everything goes back to normal.


tee






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RE: [WSG] IE8 news

[Kevin Arrowsmith]

I also found IE8 to be very slow, not so much typing in it but rollover
effects on links, even small things like underline text when the mouse goes
over it, also going from one page to another seemed slow. I even managed to
crash it when I went to a windows sharepoint site.

Kevin


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of IceKat
Sent: 08 March 2008 06:23
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 news

Hey,

I've been watching some of the IE8 conversations. I got it just 
yesterday and tried it. While it may pass the Acid2 test flawlessly (and 
only be a beta) it takes up /masses/ of memory. My computer isn't 
exactly a dinosaur but it still paused whilst trying to type using IE8. 
How powerful a computer is recommended anyway? However considering the 
problems with IE in the past I'd say I can live with that.


IceKat

(blog IE8 review at: http://aldonasweblounge.net/blog)


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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[IceKat]

Hey,

I've been watching some of the IE8 conversations. I got it just 
yesterday and tried it. While it may pass the Acid2 test flawlessly (and 
only be a beta) it takes up /masses/ of memory. My computer isn't 
exactly a dinosaur but it still paused whilst trying to type using IE8. 
How powerful a computer is recommended anyway? However considering the 
problems with IE in the past I'd say I can live with that.



IceKat

(blog IE8 review at: http://aldonasweblounge.net/blog)


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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[Keryx Web]

aleagi skrev:

Hello Mike,

I agree with you.

There's a lot of users still working in obsolete machines or/by
option, browsing with IE6.

That would be all of my colleagues - and me if I want to access the 
intranet for our town. It won't work in MSIE 7 (and hence not in MSIE 8 
with any switch.) I carry around FFox on a USB stick to avoid this 
nightmare.


Yes, I've complained. I have written about it in our local paper. I have 
pleaded. I have done everything in my power. What do the brainiacs at 
the IT department answer. "We don't see this as a problem. IE 6 works."


As long as all sites work in IE6/7 and some intranets won't work in any 
other, we are stuck. Let's do break the web - free from bad browsers!



Lars Gunther


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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[Designer]

Michael MD wrote:

when I look at the server logs here I still see almost as many IE6 users 
as IE7 users.
(the server logs are from a public events/nightlife website which gets a 
pretty diverse range of people visiting it)




The following stats (representing 15694 users of all kinds) are for a 
site which has only been around for four and a half months, so the 
results are 'topical':



MSIE 75911 48.28%

  MSIE 63625 29.61%

  Firefox 2 9.07%

  AOL 9977 7.98%

  Safari340 2.78%

  Mozilla 159 0.48%

  Other/Unknown58 0.47%

  MSIE 536 0.29%

  Firefox 1.528 0.23%

  Netscape 426 0.21%

  Opera 918 0.15%

  Flock 110 0.08%

  Firefox 110 0.08%

  Mobile Phones7 0.06%

  Firefox 36 0.05%

  AOL 84 0.03%

  PDAs4 0.03%

  Konqueror 33 0.02%

  AOL 62 0.02%

  iPhone2 0.02%

  Safari 32 0.02%

  Playstation 31 0.01%

  Netscape 31 0.01%

  Netscape 71 0.01%

  PlayStation Portable1 0.01%

  AOL 71 0.01%

Interesting!

Bob







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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[aleagi]

Hello Mike,

I agree with you.

There's a lot of users still working in obsolete machines or/by
option, browsing with IE6.

I think IE7 was a transition state to the web standards rendering,
like Windows Me was to 98 from 2000.

Microsoft likes to do things like that...

I do believe that IE7 will fade away more faster than IE6, and that's
my worry...

We will still have to spend time debugging, now for 3 different browsers...

I really hope that IE8 official release came out without grotesque
problems or we'll have to deal with IE9, very soon...

Let's wait and see!

Best Regards from sunny Brazil,
Aleagi
.

On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 12:05 PM,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> I use XP on two different corporate networks. Both have auto-update blocked,
> and will remain on IE6 for the foreseeable future. I don't think this is
> uncommon, but we will need to wait and see. Until now, the general practice
> appears to be to support the latest two versions of IE, but I think for a
> while it is going to have to be three - my prediction is that IE7 will
> disappear faster than IE6 does!
>
> Mike
>
>
>
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RE: [WSG] IE8 news

[michael.brockington]

I use XP on two different corporate networks. Both have auto-update
blocked, and will remain on IE6 for the foreseeable future. I don't
think this is uncommon, but we will need to wait and see. Until now, the
general practice appears to be to support the latest two versions of IE,
but I think for a while it is going to have to be three - my prediction
is that IE7 will disappear faster than IE6 does!
 
Mike
 


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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[Andrew Maben]

On Mar 7, 2008, at 1:18 AM, Michael MD wrote:

when I look at the server logs here I still see almost as many IE6  
users as IE7 users.


This prompted me to look back at our logs (US public library: 10  
branches, about a million circulating items, and in a town with a  
large state university - the students may heavily skew the stats)


Jan 2008
IE7 - 47.2%
IE6 - 25.4%
IE<5 - < 1%
FF - 22%
Safari - 2.8%

Feb 2008
IE7 - 48.9%
IE6 - 22.7%
IE<5 - < 1%
FF - 22.8%
Safari - 2.9%

Mar 2008 (to date)
IE7 - 58.6%
IE6 - 15.4%
IE<5 - < 1%
FF - 21.4%
Safari - 2.9%

So here at least the decline in IE6 usage is quite significant, and  
if the trend continues, has been handily overtaken by FF! Good news  
for me, at least...


FWIW

Andrew







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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[Michael MD]

How many time you guys think that will take to at least 70% of ie7 users 
update their browsers?


I estimate 2/half years ... anyone can predict?



probably longer.

when I look at the server logs here I still see almost as many IE6 users as 
IE7 users.
(the server logs are from a public events/nightlife website which gets a 
pretty diverse range of people visiting it)


How often does the average person (who is not a developer, designer or 
'early adopter') bother to upgrade their browser?


...especially when upgrading a browser often means waiting for a very large 
download, having to wait for a reboot afterwoods and often breaking or 
removing their existing browser.







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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[Ben Dodson]

> The impact on XP is similar. Those not opting to allow WGA installation or
attempt it
> but fail cannot upgrade from IE6.

http://www.infoworld.com/archives/emailPrint.jsp?R=printThis&A=/article/08/01/17/Microsoft-warns-businesses-of-autoupdate-to-IE7_1.html

I agree with you on W2K, but XP users can now upgrade to IE7 without having
to have the WGA stuff and apparently this is being forced through
auto-update so there should be a noticeable drop in IE6 users.

Ben
-- 
e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
w: http://bendodson.com/


On 06/03/2008, Felix Miata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On 2008/03/06 20:09 (GMT) Ben Dodson apparently typed:
>
>
> > My main hope is that the number of IE6 users will decrease rapidly as
> there
> > are still over 20% of the market according to the W3C statistics.
> > Apparently Microsoft were going to do a forced upgrade from IE6 to IE7
> at
> > the end of Feb but I don't know how well that has gone (or if it has at
> > all).
>
>
> IE6 won't be going away before W2K goes away, unless IE7 and/or IE8 is
> released for W2K. Last I checked, WGA didn't apply to W2K, leaving it as
> the
> only supported yet readily pirate-able doz version. The impact on XP is
> similar. Those not opting to allow WGA installation or attempt it but fail
> cannot upgrade from IE6.
>
> --
> "Let us not love with words or in talk only.
> Let us love by what we do." 1 John 3:18 NLV
>
>   Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409
>
> Felix Miata  ***  http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/
>
>
>
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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[Thomas Thomassen]

Google cache: 
http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:hJvRsZGb7kUJ:www.geocities.com/hollywood/makeup/4303/t2script.txt+http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/makeup/4303/t2script.txt&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=no&client=firefox-a



- Original Message - 
From: "Andrew Freedman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 10:05 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 news



russ - maxdesign provided the following information on 7/03/2008 7:43 AM:

I have detailed files:
http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/makeup/4303/t2script.txt

:)
Russ



Obviously not

;)
Andrew


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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[Felix Miata]

On 2008/03/06 20:09 (GMT) Ben Dodson apparently typed:

> My main hope is that the number of IE6 users will decrease rapidly as there
> are still over 20% of the market according to the W3C statistics.
> Apparently Microsoft were going to do a forced upgrade from IE6 to IE7 at
> the end of Feb but I don't know how well that has gone (or if it has at
> all).

IE6 won't be going away before W2K goes away, unless IE7 and/or IE8 is
released for W2K. Last I checked, WGA didn't apply to W2K, leaving it as the
only supported yet readily pirate-able doz version. The impact on XP is
similar. Those not opting to allow WGA installation or attempt it but fail
cannot upgrade from IE6.
-- 
"Let us not love with words or in talk only.
Let us love by what we do." 1 John 3:18 NLV

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata  ***  http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/


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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[Andrew Freedman]

russ - maxdesign provided the following information on 7/03/2008 7:43 AM:

I have detailed files:
http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/makeup/4303/t2script.txt

:)
Russ



Obviously not

;)
Andrew


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RE: [WSG] IE8 news

[Paul Bennett]

> http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/makeup/4303/t2script.txt

404! It's happening already!


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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[russ - maxdesign]

> How many time you guys think that will take to at least 70% of ie7 users
> update their browsers?
> 
> I estimate 2/half years ... anyone can predict?

Yes, I can predict.

IE8 goes on-line August 4th, 2009.  Human decisions are removed from
strategic browser development.  IE8 begins to learn, at a geometric rate.
It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. eastern time, August 29. In a panic, the
IE8 development team try to pull the plug.

Too late. IE8 launches its ICBMs against it's target - Firefox!

How do I know all of this? I have detailed files:
http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/makeup/4303/t2script.txt

:)
Russ




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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[Ben Dodson]

It depends on how Microsoft are going to get users to upgrade - If they do a
forced upgrade then that figure could go down and presumably if a service
pack for vista comes out it will include IE8 in it by default so hopefully
it will be more like a year and a half rather than 2 and a half.

My main hope is that the number of IE6 users will decrease rapidly as there
are still over 20% of the market according to the W3C statistics.
Apparently Microsoft were going to do a forced upgrade from IE6 to IE7 at
the end of Feb but I don't know how well that has gone (or if it has at
all).

Ben
-- 
e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
w: http://bendodson.com/




On 06/03/2008, Genau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> How many time you guys think that will take to at least 70% of ie7 users
> update their browsers?
>
> I estimate 2/half years ... anyone can predict?
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "aleagi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 5:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 news
>
>
>
> Yeap, it sucks!
>
> I'll find a solution to that!
>
> Regards,
> Luiz Gustavo Aleagi Nunes
> -
> "Nosce te ipsum"
> -
> http://sapiensdc.com.br
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 5:04 PM, tee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I decided to be the brave and die first IE's victim :-)
> >
> >  Very Bad! my IE 6 is gone, IE 7 standalone is working. The
> >  installation took over 15 minutes.
> >
> >  How do they expect we test the browser by disable the the previous
> >  version(s) ??
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  ***
>
> >  List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> >  Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
> >  Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >  ***
> >
> >
> >
>
> >  tee
> >  On Mar 5, 2008, at 11:32 AM, aleagi wrote:
> >
> >  > Yeah, I'm afraid to install it and kick IE6 and 7 out of my box!
> >  >
> >  > Anyone with the guts to do it? @:D
> >  >
> >  > Regards.
> >  > Aleagi
> >  > .
> >  >
> >  > On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 4:25 PM, Patrick H. Lauke
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >  > > wrote:
> >  >> Anybody installed the IE8beta1 yet?
> >  >>
> >
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/readiness/Install.htm
> >  >> Wondering if this nukes IE7 and embeds itself into Windows, or if
> >  >> it can
> >  >> run standalone...
> >  >>
> >  >> P
> >  >> --
> >  >> Patrick H. Lauke
> >  >> __
> >  >> re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
> >  >> [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
> >  >> www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
> >  >> http://redux.deviantart.com
> >  >> __
> >  >> Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
> >  >> http://webstandards.org/
> >  >> __
> >  >>
> >  >>
> >  >>
> >  >>
> >  >> ***
>
> >  >> List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> >  >> Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[Genau]

How many time you guys think that will take to at least 70% of ie7 users 
update their browsers?


I estimate 2/half years ... anyone can predict?

- Original Message - 
From: "aleagi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 news


Yeap, it sucks!

I'll find a solution to that!

Regards,
Luiz Gustavo Aleagi Nunes
-
"Nosce te ipsum"
-
http://sapiensdc.com.br


On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 5:04 PM, tee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I decided to be the brave and die first IE's victim :-)

 Very Bad! my IE 6 is gone, IE 7 standalone is working. The
 installation took over 15 minutes.

 How do they expect we test the browser by disable the the previous
 version(s) ??





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 tee
 On Mar 5, 2008, at 11:32 AM, aleagi wrote:

 > Yeah, I'm afraid to install it and kick IE6 and 7 out of my box!
 >
 > Anyone with the guts to do it? @:D
 >
 > Regards.
 > Aleagi
 > .
 >
 > On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 4:25 PM, Patrick H. Lauke 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 > > wrote:
 >> Anybody installed the IE8beta1 yet?
 >> 
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/readiness/Install.htm

 >> Wondering if this nukes IE7 and embeds itself into Windows, or if
 >> it can
 >> run standalone...
 >>
 >> P
 >> --
 >> Patrick H. Lauke
 >> __
 >> re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
 >> [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
 >> www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
 >> http://redux.deviantart.com
 >> __
 >> Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
 >> http://webstandards.org/
 >> __
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >> ***
 >> List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[Michael Horowitz]

Find someone throwing out an old machine and grab their activation 
number if you have the CD's. 


Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079



Patrick H. Lauke wrote:

Michael Horowitz wrote:

Setup a virtual machine and do it there.  Much safer.


If you have spare WinXP installs, that is.

Sadly a bit late, but I stumbled across these ready-made VirtualPC 
images from MS
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=21EABB90-958F-4B64-B5F1-73D0A413C8EF&displaylang=en 



(time-bombed for July 2008)

P



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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[aleagi]

Yeap, it sucks!

I'll find a solution to that!

Regards,
Luiz Gustavo Aleagi Nunes
-
"Nosce te ipsum"
-
http://sapiensdc.com.br


On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 5:04 PM, tee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I decided to be the brave and die first IE's victim :-)
>
>  Very Bad! my IE 6 is gone, IE 7 standalone is working. The
>  installation took over 15 minutes.
>
>  How do they expect we test the browser by disable the the previous
>  version(s) ??
>
>
>
>
>
>  ***
>  List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
>  Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
>  Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  ***
>
>
>
>  tee
>  On Mar 5, 2008, at 11:32 AM, aleagi wrote:
>
>  > Yeah, I'm afraid to install it and kick IE6 and 7 out of my box!
>  >
>  > Anyone with the guts to do it? @:D
>  >
>  > Regards.
>  > Aleagi
>  > .
>  >
>  > On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 4:25 PM, Patrick H. Lauke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > > wrote:
>  >> Anybody installed the IE8beta1 yet?
>  >> 
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/readiness/Install.htm
>  >> Wondering if this nukes IE7 and embeds itself into Windows, or if
>  >> it can
>  >> run standalone...
>  >>
>  >> P
>  >> --
>  >> Patrick H. Lauke
>  >> __
>  >> re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
>  >> [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
>  >> www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
>  >> http://redux.deviantart.com
>  >> __
>  >> Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
>  >> http://webstandards.org/
>  >> __
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> ***
>  >> List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
>  >> Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
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>  >
>  > ***
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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[aleagi]

Ok, IE6 standalone from EVOLT are NOT browsing at all!

It starts but ou can't navigate with it!
http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/browsers.evolt.org/browsers/ie/32bit/standalone/ie6eolas_nt.zip

I got IE6 back from Multiple IEs...
http://tredosoft.com/Multiple_IE

I've installed it all and (apparently) it worked!

I can't access the version window since it's updated by IE8.

So, If you really, really want to teste it (like me) here's the
solution to have IE6 (and lower) versions running property with IE8.

For IE7 Standalone, try this:
http://tredosoft.com/IE7_standalone

Good lucky to you all!

I just wish our nightmare with hacks, conditional coments and all the
debug time is over!

Regards,
Luiz Gustavo Aleagi Nunes
-
"Nosce te ipsum"
-
http://sapiensdc.com.br



On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 5:04 PM, tee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I decided to be the brave and die first IE's victim :-)
>
>  Very Bad! my IE 6 is gone, IE 7 standalone is working. The
>  installation took over 15 minutes.
>
>  How do they expect we test the browser by disable the the previous
>  version(s) ??
>
>
>
>
>
>  ***
>  List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
>  Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
>  Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  ***
>
>
>
>  tee
>  On Mar 5, 2008, at 11:32 AM, aleagi wrote:
>
>  > Yeah, I'm afraid to install it and kick IE6 and 7 out of my box!
>  >
>  > Anyone with the guts to do it? @:D
>  >
>  > Regards.
>  > Aleagi
>  > .
>  >
>  > On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 4:25 PM, Patrick H. Lauke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > > wrote:
>  >> Anybody installed the IE8beta1 yet?
>  >> 
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/readiness/Install.htm
>  >> Wondering if this nukes IE7 and embeds itself into Windows, or if
>  >> it can
>  >> run standalone...
>  >>
>  >> P
>  >> --
>  >> Patrick H. Lauke
>  >> __
>  >> re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
>  >> [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
>  >> www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
>  >> http://redux.deviantart.com
>  >> __
>  >> Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
>  >> http://webstandards.org/
>  >> __
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> ***
>  >> List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
>  >> Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
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RE: [WSG] IE8 news

[Thierry Koblentz]

> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ben Dodson
>
> The switch to IE7 mode is a good bonus to have but there are a few weird
things such as the url in the address bar is always greyed out apart from 
> the domain name which is a bit weird (and I can't quite understand why
they'd put that in).
> 
> I need to give it a full testing but it seems quite good so far!

I think it has issue with thext box (big issues)

-- 
Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com








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RE: [WSG] IE8 news

[Paul Bennett]

Hi all,

Sorry for the quick-fire posts. This just in:
* if it doesn’t render when you start up the browser, you can open a new tab 
and then switch back to the first tab - this seems to 'wake up' the rendering 
engine
* the 'emulate IE7' button allows you to switch between IE7 and IE8 rendering 
engines, but you do have to restart the browser to do this. It seems that 
rather than overwriting IE7, it uses the same base chrome but does allow the 
rendering engine switch.

:)
Paul 

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RE: [WSG] IE8 news

[Thierry Koblentz]

> On Behalf Of Chris Knowles
> Subject: [WSG] IE8 news
> 
> "We've decided that IE8 will, by default, interpret web content in the
> most standards compliant way it can. This decision is a change from what
> we've posted previously."
> 
> http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/03/03/microsoft-s-interoperability-
> principles-and-ie8.aspx

I've been running it and I tried a few things. imho, many people will regret
that MS changed its mind about ie8's default behavior...

-- 
Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com






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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[Ben Dodson]

I've just installed and it seems a lot better than IE7 - A few pages I have
that have differences between IE7 and firefox now render exactly like
firefox which is good :-)

The switch to IE7 mode is a good bonus to have but there are a few weird
things such as the url in the address bar is always greyed out apart from
the domain name which is a bit weird (and I can't quite understand why
they'd put that in).

I need to give it a full testing but it seems quite good so far!

Ben

-- 
e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
w: http://bendodson.com/


On 05/03/2008, Jason Gray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I gave it a go...  (thanks for the link).. Installed fine...
> But I had to reinstall my Logitech mouse drivers...
> I love having to navgiate web pages using the keyboard.
> Just goes to show how dependant we are on the mouse!
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>
> Behalf Of aleagi
> Sent: Thursday, 6 March 2008 7:13 AM
> To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
>
> Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 news
>
>
> Ok I got it installed...
>
> Since I don't had the last updates in my machine, IE8 forced me to do it.
>
> And I did...
>
> Now I can't have IE6, it's updated!
>
> I have IE7 standalone running properlly.
>
> I'll digg to find a IE6 standalone version that worked with Ie8!
>
> For the rest, everything looks fine.
>
> Good lucky to you all!
>
> Regards,
> Luiz Gustavo Aleagi Nunes
> -
> "Nosce te ipsum"
> -
> http://sapiensdc.com.br
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 5:00 PM, Thomas Thomassen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > I got a spare computer to test this on. Thanks for the heads up about
> the
> >  availiblity of the beta.
> >
> >
> >
> >  - Original Message -
>
> >  From: "aleagi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >  To: 
> >
>
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 8:32 PM
> >  Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 news
> >
> >
> >
>
> > Yeah, I'm afraid to install it and kick IE6 and 7 out of my box!
> >
> >  Anyone with the guts to do it? @:D
> >
> >  Regards.
> >  Aleagi
> >  .
> >
> >  On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 4:25 PM, Patrick H. Lauke <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >  wrote:
> >
> >
> > > Anybody installed the IE8beta1 yet?
> >  >
> >  >
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/readiness/Install
> .htm
> >  >  Wondering if this nukes IE7 and embeds itself into Windows, or if it
> can
> >  >  run standalone...
> >  >
> >  >  P
> >  >  --
> >  >  Patrick H. Lauke
> >  >  __
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> >  >  www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[Thomas Thomassen]

Some of the oddness can use experienced here: 
http://thomthom.net/storage/markup/html/sitenav/
In IE8 the drop down menu of the red nav bar will hide when the cursor moves 
over the menu where the headers are below.


Also, the table of content will not drop down.
In my CSS code for the TOC I have
#toc:hover,
#toc:target
{
 height: auto;
}

however, if I remove #toc:target and only have
#toc:hover
{
 height: auto;
}
Then it works fine.

And you will also see that the tr:hover activates differently from other 
browsers.



- Original Message - 
From: "Mike at Green-Beast.com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 news



Hi Thomas,


One thing I noticed was some oddness with :hover behaviour


I remember when IE7 came out (RC1 I think) I had to add [1] a:hover {} to 
the head of my documents else it didn't work at all. I added it within my 
@import statement with empty braces, like this:



@import "mystylesheet.css"; a:hover { }


I really have top wonder if this is more of the same. What "oddness" are 
you seeing?


I can't say I'll be installing it too soon. I did that with 7 and it just 
led to a bunch of changes (bug fixes) that I didn't need to make by the 
time RC2 came out.


Cheers.
Mike


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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[James Ellis]

I had this crazy idea that MS would allow developers to implement something 
like this so we could forget about the various furbar'd rendering engines MS 
produces and just run with something that works for those of us who code to, 
or try to code to, the various standards:



or at least allow us to stick in a HTTP response header for the client:

X-HTML-Rendering-Engine: webkit

Given the webkit (http://webkit.org/) BSD/LGPL licensing... although I 
wouldn't see myself as a licensing expert and I doubt MS would want to 
implement an open source license, but a man can dream.

At least we suffering developers could tell IE what engine to render the page 
with, and IE lovers can still have their IE chrome :D

Cheers
James

On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 02:25:25 pm Chris Knowles wrote:
> "We've decided that IE8 will, by default, interpret web content in the
> most standards compliant way it can. This decision is a change from what
> we've posted previously."
>
> http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/03/03/microsoft-s-interoperability-pr
>inciples-and-ie8.aspx




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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[Patrick H. Lauke]

Michael Horowitz wrote:

Setup a virtual machine and do it there.  Much safer.


If you have spare WinXP installs, that is.

Sadly a bit late, but I stumbled across these ready-made VirtualPC 
images from MS

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=21EABB90-958F-4B64-B5F1-73D0A413C8EF&displaylang=en

(time-bombed for July 2008)

P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
__
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
__
Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/
__


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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[James Ellis]

Agreed, plenty of virtualisation software out there that makes problems like 
the ones reported just go away.
In most VM's you could take a snapshot of Windows prior to install of IE8 then 
roll back to that snapshot when you are done with IE8 or until a workable 
standalone comes through. For virtualbox, for instance, you would take a 
snapshot.

Another option is if you have a valid Windows license to just run up a 
dedicated IE8 virtual machine.

HTH
J



On Thu, 6 Mar 2008 08:38:02 am Michael Horowitz wrote:
> Setup a virtual machine and do it there.  Much safer.
>
> Michael Horowitz
> Your Computer Consultant
> http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
> 561-394-9079
>
> aleagi wrote:
> > Yeah, I'm afraid to install it and kick IE6 and 7 out of my box!
> >
> > Anyone with the guts to do it? @:D
> >
> > Regards.
> > Aleagi
> > .
> >


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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[Mike at Green-Beast.com]

Hi Thomas,


One thing I noticed was some oddness with :hover behaviour


I remember when IE7 came out (RC1 I think) I had to add [1] a:hover {} to 
the head of my documents else it didn't work at all. I added it within my 
@import statement with empty braces, like this:



@import "mystylesheet.css"; a:hover { }


I really have top wonder if this is more of the same. What "oddness" are you 
seeing?


I can't say I'll be installing it too soon. I did that with 7 and it just 
led to a bunch of changes (bug fixes) that I didn't need to make by the time 
RC2 came out.


Cheers.
Mike 




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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[Patrick H. Lauke]

Patrick H. Lauke wrote:

Anybody installed the IE8beta1 yet?
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/readiness/Install.htm 

Wondering if this nukes IE7 and embeds itself into Windows, or if it can 
run standalone...


Ok, took the plunge. As already noted, it overwrites IE7, but can 
emulate it with a new button (which will probably go in the final 
release). Tredosoft's older IE versions seem unaffected, though I 
haven't done extensive retesting of them.

http://tredosoft.com/Multiple_IE

P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
__
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
__
Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/
__


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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[Michael Horowitz]

Setup a virtual machine and do it there.  Much safer.

Michael Horowitz
Your Computer Consultant
http://yourcomputerconsultant.com
561-394-9079



aleagi wrote:

Yeah, I'm afraid to install it and kick IE6 and 7 out of my box!

Anyone with the guts to do it? @:D

Regards.
Aleagi
.

On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 4:25 PM, Patrick H. Lauke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  

Anybody installed the IE8beta1 yet?
 
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/readiness/Install.htm
 Wondering if this nukes IE7 and embeds itself into Windows, or if it can
 run standalone...

 P
 --
 Patrick H. Lauke
 __
 re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
 [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
 www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
 http://redux.deviantart.com
 __
 Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
 http://webstandards.org/
 __




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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[Thomas Thomassen]

p.s. the testcase I'm working on is here: 
http://thomthom.net/storage/markup/html/sitenav/ (NOTE: very rough draft!)
but if you use it to compare IE8 with Firefox2/3, Opera 9 and Safari 3 you 
see that IE8 still got a long way to go. :(



- Original Message - 
From: "Thomas Thomassen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 9:50 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 news


IE8 does provide a mode switch to IE7. There's a new button next to the 
home button. Though I'm not surpriced it nuked your IE6 installation.


I gave it a go and tried some of my testcases where I make heavy use of 
selectors and other cutting edge CSS features. Can't say I was impressed. 
I had actually hoped for more. I thought they'd pushed it quite a bit 
further, but it's looking pretty much like IE7, except that there seems to 
be less quirks. One thing I noticed was some oddness with :hover behaviour 
quite a few times. And my unordered list with square bullets now displays 
as quetsionmakrs with a border around it.



- Original Message - 
From: "tee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 news



I decided to be the brave and die first IE's victim :-)

Very Bad! my IE 6 is gone, IE 7 standalone is working. The
installation took over 15 minutes.

How do they expect we test the browser by disable the the previous
version(s) ??



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tee
On Mar 5, 2008, at 11:32 AM, aleagi wrote:


Yeah, I'm afraid to install it and kick IE6 and 7 out of my box!

Anyone with the guts to do it? @:D

Regards.
Aleagi
.

On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 4:25 PM, Patrick H. Lauke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:

Anybody installed the IE8beta1 yet?
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/readiness/Install.htm
Wondering if this nukes IE7 and embeds itself into Windows, or if
it can
run standalone...

P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
__
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
__
Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/
__




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RE: [WSG] IE8 news

[Jason Gray]

I gave it a go...  (thanks for the link).. Installed fine...
But I had to reinstall my Logitech mouse drivers...
I love having to navgiate web pages using the keyboard. 
Just goes to show how dependant we are on the mouse!



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of aleagi
Sent: Thursday, 6 March 2008 7:13 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 news

Ok I got it installed...

Since I don't had the last updates in my machine, IE8 forced me to do it.

And I did...

Now I can't have IE6, it's updated!

I have IE7 standalone running properlly.

I'll digg to find a IE6 standalone version that worked with Ie8!

For the rest, everything looks fine.

Good lucky to you all!

Regards,
Luiz Gustavo Aleagi Nunes
-
"Nosce te ipsum"
-
http://sapiensdc.com.br


On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 5:00 PM, Thomas Thomassen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> I got a spare computer to test this on. Thanks for the heads up about the
>  availiblity of the beta.
>
>
>
>  - Original Message -
>  From: "aleagi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  To: 
>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 8:32 PM
>  Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 news
>
>
>
> Yeah, I'm afraid to install it and kick IE6 and 7 out of my box!
>
>  Anyone with the guts to do it? @:D
>
>  Regards.
>  Aleagi
>  .
>
>  On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 4:25 PM, Patrick H. Lauke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  wrote:
>
>
> > Anybody installed the IE8beta1 yet?
>  >
>  >
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/readiness/Install
.htm
>  >  Wondering if this nukes IE7 and embeds itself into Windows, or if it
can
>  >  run standalone...
>  >
>  >  P
>  >  --
>  >  Patrick H. Lauke
>  >  __
>  >  re.dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
>  >  [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
>  >  www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
>  >  http://redux.deviantart.com
>  >  __
>  >  Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
>  >  http://webstandards.org/
>  >  __
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[Viktor]

As far as I know "the emulate IE7 button forces the browser to render 
pages like IE7... [Microsoft also added a meta tag to choose which 
rendering version your visitors will use during their visit]


Paul Bennett wrote:

2 restarts later I have found the following:

* it overwrites IE7
* it doesn't render anything in the tabs!
* it has an 'emulate IE7' button (??)

Best to hold off for now. If I get it sorted I'll let you all know.

Paul 


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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[Thomas Thomassen]

IE8 does provide a mode switch to IE7. There's a new button next to the home 
button. Though I'm not surpriced it nuked your IE6 installation.


I gave it a go and tried some of my testcases where I make heavy use of 
selectors and other cutting edge CSS features. Can't say I was impressed. I 
had actually hoped for more. I thought they'd pushed it quite a bit further, 
but it's looking pretty much like IE7, except that there seems to be less 
quirks. One thing I noticed was some oddness with :hover behaviour quite a 
few times. And my unordered list with square bullets now displays as 
quetsionmakrs with a border around it.



- Original Message - 
From: "tee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 news



I decided to be the brave and die first IE's victim :-)

Very Bad! my IE 6 is gone, IE 7 standalone is working. The
installation took over 15 minutes.

How do they expect we test the browser by disable the the previous
version(s) ??



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tee
On Mar 5, 2008, at 11:32 AM, aleagi wrote:


Yeah, I'm afraid to install it and kick IE6 and 7 out of my box!

Anyone with the guts to do it? @:D

Regards.
Aleagi
.

On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 4:25 PM, Patrick H. Lauke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:

Anybody installed the IE8beta1 yet?
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/readiness/Install.htm
Wondering if this nukes IE7 and embeds itself into Windows, or if
it can
run standalone...

P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
__
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
__
Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/
__




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RE: [WSG] IE8 news

[Paul Bennett]

2 restarts later I have found the following:

* it overwrites IE7
* it doesn't render anything in the tabs!
* it has an 'emulate IE7' button (??)

Best to hold off for now. If I get it sorted I'll let you all know.

Paul 

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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[aleagi]

Ok I got it installed...

Since I don't had the last updates in my machine, IE8 forced me to do it.

And I did...

Now I can't have IE6, it's updated!

I have IE7 standalone running properlly.

I'll digg to find a IE6 standalone version that worked with Ie8!

For the rest, everything looks fine.

Good lucky to you all!

Regards,
Luiz Gustavo Aleagi Nunes
-
"Nosce te ipsum"
-
http://sapiensdc.com.br


On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 5:00 PM, Thomas Thomassen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I got a spare computer to test this on. Thanks for the heads up about the
>  availiblity of the beta.
>
>
>
>  - Original Message -
>  From: "aleagi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  To: 
>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 8:32 PM
>  Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 news
>
>
>
> Yeah, I'm afraid to install it and kick IE6 and 7 out of my box!
>
>  Anyone with the guts to do it? @:D
>
>  Regards.
>  Aleagi
>  .
>
>  On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 4:25 PM, Patrick H. Lauke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  wrote:
>
>
> > Anybody installed the IE8beta1 yet?
>  >
>  > 
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/readiness/Install.htm
>  >  Wondering if this nukes IE7 and embeds itself into Windows, or if it can
>  >  run standalone...
>  >
>  >  P
>  >  --
>  >  Patrick H. Lauke
>  >  __
>  >  re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
>  >  [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
>  >  www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
>  >  http://redux.deviantart.com
>  >  __
>  >  Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
>  >  http://webstandards.org/
>  >  __
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[aleagi]

Ok, I'm installing it...

Wish me luck! @:D

Regards,
aleagi
.

On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 4:53 PM, Paul Bennett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The IE7 beta worked as a standalone until the first Release Candidate came 
> out. I presume IE8 will do the same.
>
>  Am trying now, but you need to have a fully patched machine (I'm behind a 
> firewall so our patches are usually pushed out a bit later ) to install it - 
> so be warned that the installer may require security patch updates to 
> complete.
>
>  Hope to report soon on... :)
>
>
>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick H. 
> Lauke
>  Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 8:26 AM
>  To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
>  Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 news
>
>
>
> Anybody installed the IE8beta1 yet?
>  
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/readiness/Install.htm
>  Wondering if this nukes IE7 and embeds itself into Windows, or if it can
>  run standalone...
>
>  P
>  --
>  Patrick H. Lauke
>  __
>  re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
>  [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
>  www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
>  http://redux.deviantart.com
>  __
>  Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
>  http://webstandards.org/
>  __
>
>
>  ***
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-- 
Luiz Gustavo Aleagi Nunes
-
"Nosce te ipsum"
-
http://sapiensdc.com.br


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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[Thomas Thomassen]

I got a spare computer to test this on. Thanks for the heads up about the 
availiblity of the beta.



- Original Message - 
From: "aleagi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 news


Yeah, I'm afraid to install it and kick IE6 and 7 out of my box!

Anyone with the guts to do it? @:D

Regards.
Aleagi
.

On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 4:25 PM, Patrick H. Lauke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:

Anybody installed the IE8beta1 yet?

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/readiness/Install.htm
 Wondering if this nukes IE7 and embeds itself into Windows, or if it can
 run standalone...

 P
 --
 Patrick H. Lauke
 __
 re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
 [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
 www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
 http://redux.deviantart.com
 __
 Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
 http://webstandards.org/
 __




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RE: [WSG] IE8 news

[Paul Bennett]

The IE7 beta worked as a standalone until the first Release Candidate came out. 
I presume IE8 will do the same.

Am trying now, but you need to have a fully patched machine (I'm behind a 
firewall so our patches are usually pushed out a bit later ) to install it - so 
be warned that the installer may require security patch updates to complete.

Hope to report soon on... :)  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 8:26 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 news

Anybody installed the IE8beta1 yet?
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/readiness/Install.htm
Wondering if this nukes IE7 and embeds itself into Windows, or if it can 
run standalone...

P
-- 
Patrick H. Lauke
__
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
__
Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/
__


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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[aleagi]

Yeah, I'm afraid to install it and kick IE6 and 7 out of my box!

Anyone with the guts to do it? @:D

Regards.
Aleagi
.

On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 4:25 PM, Patrick H. Lauke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Anybody installed the IE8beta1 yet?
>  
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/readiness/Install.htm
>  Wondering if this nukes IE7 and embeds itself into Windows, or if it can
>  run standalone...
>
>  P
>  --
>  Patrick H. Lauke
>  __
>  re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
>  [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
>  www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
>  http://redux.deviantart.com
>  __
>  Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
>  http://webstandards.org/
>  __
>
>
>
>
>  ***
>  List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
>  Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[Patrick H. Lauke]

Anybody installed the IE8beta1 yet?
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/readiness/Install.htm
Wondering if this nukes IE7 and embeds itself into Windows, or if it can 
run standalone...


P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
__
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
__
Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/
__


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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[Christian Snodgrass]

That's very true. Those that our party of the community are those that 
are aware and follow standards. And, I do disagree with compatibility 
indefinitely, such as having IE5's, or even IE6's rendering engine 
within IE8, because that does cause bloat. But, I can understand having 
IE7s, because not every developer is going to even feasibly be able to 
update all of their updates in between the beta of IE8 and the actual 
release, and even then it might completely update their site for when 
IE8 comes out. Likewise, when IE9 comes out, if it's rendering 
capabilities change for HTML compared to IE8, I would expect IE9 to 
contain IE8's rendering engine, but likely drop IE7 (depending how 
quickly they pushed it out). You have to have some 
backwards-compatibility, but you have to eventually drop some of it if 
you ever want to progress.


Patrick Lauke wrote:

Tate Johnson



  
I agree with your latter point. However, I fear that it 
protects lazy  
developers who refuse to adopt standards based practices. That said,  
the more and more you look at the community on the whole; it seems  
less ignorant today than at the start of the decade.



The problem is that those lazy or ignorant developers are *not* actually
part of the community...they may not even realise that there *is* a community.

P

Patrick H. Lauke
Web Editor
Enterprise & Development
University of Salford
Room 113, Faraday House
Salford, Greater Manchester
M5 4WT
UK

T +44 (0) 161 295 4779
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

www.salford.ac.uk

A GREATER MANCHESTER UNIVERSITY  



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--

Christian Snodgrass
Azure Ronin Web Design
http://www.arwebdesign.net/ 
Phone: 859.816.7955



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RE: [WSG] IE8 news

[Patrick Lauke]

> Tate Johnson

> I agree with your latter point. However, I fear that it 
> protects lazy  
> developers who refuse to adopt standards based practices. That said,  
> the more and more you look at the community on the whole; it seems  
> less ignorant today than at the start of the decade.

The problem is that those lazy or ignorant developers are *not* actually
part of the community...they may not even realise that there *is* a community.

P

Patrick H. Lauke
Web Editor
Enterprise & Development
University of Salford
Room 113, Faraday House
Salford, Greater Manchester
M5 4WT
UK

T +44 (0) 161 295 4779
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

www.salford.ac.uk

A GREATER MANCHESTER UNIVERSITY  


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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[Tate Johnson]

On 04/03/2008, at 2:34 PM, John Hancock wrote:

How can you disagree with a capability? Isn't it a feature to be  
used if you so choose? For intranets etc that you can force this  
behaviour can actually be a good thing, but if you don't like it,  
you don't have to use it!


I agree with your latter point. However, I fear that it protects lazy  
developers who refuse to adopt standards based practices. That said,  
the more and more you look at the community on the whole; it seems  
less ignorant today than at the start of the decade.


Overall, it's a compromise that I'm willing to accept.


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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[Brad Pollard]

That is fantastic. Well done to all the people that
engaged in this issue. And. thank you microsoft.

Looking forward now to running the IE8 beta.

Brad



Thomas Thomassen wrote:
True.
IE is more than just a browser. It's a development platform. Intranet
systems, HTA applications etc. Some of them might be used in mission
critial systems where it's less than ideal to update the HTML and CSS
every time IE updates it rendering engine so locking them self to a
spesific version is very handy for them.
  
There are still systems using DOS software for their operation because
porting it to a new system would cause a great risk of bugs.
  
  
  
- Original Message - From: "John Hancock"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  
To: 
  
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 5:34 AM
  
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 news
  
  
  




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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[Thomas Thomassen]

True. IE is more than just a browser. It's a development platform. Intranet 
systems, HTA applications etc. Some of them might be used in mission critial 
systems where it's less than ideal to update the HTML and CSS every time IE 
updates it rendering engine so locking them self to a spesific version is 
very handy for them.
There are still systems using DOS software for their operation because 
porting it to a new system would cause a great risk of bugs.



- Original Message - 
From: "John Hancock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 5:34 AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE8 news


How can you disagree with a capability? Isn't it a feature to be used  if 
you so choose? For intranets etc that you can force this behaviour  can 
actually be a good thing, but if you don't like it, you don't have  to use 
it! Microsoft has certainly responded here, but in my opinion  we 
shouldn't be criticising the for offering optional extras.


On 04/03/2008, at 3:23 PM, Tate Johnson wrote:

Microsoft is actually responding to their customers (and the  community). 
Wow, I'm impressed.


While I still disagree with the capability to render in "IE7 Strict 
Mode", at least this is no longer the default in IE8.





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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[Al Sparber]

From: "tee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

I wonder id IE team from M$ sends the flower bouquets and chocolates  
to Mr Meyer and Mr  Zeldman with Hallmark cards to apologize for  
putting them being bug guys by supporting that silly idea.


Sorry, I just can't resist to asking this question.


I don't think anyone held a gun to anyone else's head ;-)

--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Extending Dreamweaver - Nav Systems | Galleries | Widgets
Authors: "42nd Street: Mastering the Art of CSS Design"




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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[tee]

I wonder id IE team from M$ sends the flower bouquets and chocolates  
to Mr Meyer and Mr  Zeldman with Hallmark cards to apologize for  
putting them being bug guys by supporting that silly idea.


Sorry, I just can't resist to asking this question.

tee



"We've decided that IE8 will, by default, interpret web content in  
the most standards compliant way it can. This decision is a change  
from what we've posted previously."


http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/03/03/microsoft-s-interoperability-principles-and-ie8.aspx






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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[Mike at Green-Beast.com]

http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/03/03/microsoft-s-interoperability-principles-and-ie8.aspx


That's awesome. A unified industry can move forward. Those who want to 
embrace it will get with the program, and those who don't can stay in 
IE7-ville until... well, until they get with the program, at their leisure. 
At least those who have been playing the game won't have to play games with 
funky new meta tags.


It's nice to see the voice of web standards being heard.

Cheers.
Mike Cherim 




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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[John Hancock]

How can you disagree with a capability? Isn't it a feature to be used  
if you so choose? For intranets etc that you can force this behaviour  
can actually be a good thing, but if you don't like it, you don't have  
to use it! Microsoft has certainly responded here, but in my opinion  
we shouldn't be criticising the for offering optional extras.


On 04/03/2008, at 3:23 PM, Tate Johnson wrote:

Microsoft is actually responding to their customers (and the  
community). Wow, I'm impressed.


While I still disagree with the capability to render in "IE7 Strict  
Mode", at least this is no longer the default in IE8.





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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[Tate Johnson]

On 04/03/2008, at 1:25 PM, Chris Knowles wrote:

"We've decided that IE8 will, by default, interpret web content in  
the most standards compliant way it can. This decision is a change  
from what we've posted previously."


http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/03/03/microsoft-s-interoperability-principles-and-ie8.aspx


Microsoft is actually responding to their customers (and the  
community). Wow, I'm impressed.


While I still disagree with the capability to render in "IE7 Strict  
Mode", at least this is no longer the default in IE8.



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Re: [WSG] IE8 news

[Christian Snodgrass]

That's great news, sorta.

It's great for those of us that have been following the standards for 
ages and will just have to remove a few hacks and tweaks, but other than 
that only minimal adjustments. However, there will be a lot of legacy 
code that gets screwed up. However, you can't constantly worry about 
code that is 5 years old if you want to make progress. Overall, this is 
a definite plus.


Chris Knowles wrote:
"We've decided that IE8 will, by default, interpret web content in the 
most standards compliant way it can. This decision is a change from 
what we've posted previously."


http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/03/03/microsoft-s-interoperability-principles-and-ie8.aspx 







--

Christian Snodgrass
Azure Ronin Web Design
http://www.arwebdesign.net/ 
Phone: 859.816.7955



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