Re: [WSG] WE04 Summary (blowing my own trumpet)
Thank you all for responding, and thank you for the link regarding forms. As with div's, I am beginning to understand. Use them for overall layout, but if there is an alternative within a div tag not to use them, then don't use them. Take care, Nancy russ - maxdesign [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. Where can I find a good example of how forms should be laid out for accessibility.Try these:http://www.d.umn.edu/itss/support/Training/Online/webdesign/accessibility.html#formshttp://www.nils.org.au/ais/web/resources/WSG_Oct_04/toc.html 2. Comment on div tags. If we are not suppose to use tables for layout and div tags are supposed to be used with restraint. What other options with layout are there?Are you referring to this:7. and elements have no real semantic meaning, so usethem judiciously. I'm not saying "don't use them", but if there is anotherelement that explains the content, use it instead!This seems to be talking more about the direct mark-up of content thanoverall positioning. With marking up content, the aim is to use the mostcorrect elements (the element that has the most meaning) where possible anduse divs only if needed.With overall layout, the aim is to get away from tables and unnecessary divs- there may be times when you can position an element directly. For example:If you use a for your navigation, you may not need to place the inside a - you could apply positioning style to the directly.However, if the nav also needed other elements, you would probably need towrap them all in a div and position that.Russ**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting help**__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [WSG] WE04 Summary (blowing my own trumpet)
I did not attend this conference and I read the article listed below. Maybe I am missing something. 1. Where can I find a good example of how forms should be laid out for accessibility. 2.Comment on div tags. If we are not suppose to use tables for layoutand div tags are supposed to be used with restraint. What other options with layout are there? Nancy JohnsonJason Foss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings!I penned a bit of a summary of some of the things I learned at WE04,and Sitepoint have published it!http://www.sitepoint.comor straight to the article:http://www.sitepoint.com/article/essentials-modern-web-designDid I miss anything imprtant? Well, it's too late now if I did, but Ithink I covered mostly everything within the scope of the article.(Not everything at the conference mind you!)-- Jason FossAlmost Anything Desktop Publishingwww.almost-anything.com.auWindows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED]North Rockhampton, Queensland, Australia"We can do almost anything!"**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting help**__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
RE: [WSG] WE04 Summary (blowing my own trumpet)
Hi Nancy, Any of the positioning rules which you apply to div tags can also be applied to any other block level element like headings, paragraphs, lists, and so on even images if you define them as block elements in your style sheet. Simply position the block element itself you dont need to wrap it in a div first unless youre grouping more than one element. Hope that makes sense! Aaron Pollock From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nancy Johnson Sent: 28 October 2004 14:49 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] WE04 Summary (blowing my own trumpet) I did not attend this conference and I read the article listed below. Maybe I am missing something. 1. Where can I find a good example of how forms should be laid out for accessibility. 2.Comment on div tags. If we are not suppose to use tables for layoutand div tags are supposed to be used with restraint. What other options with layout are there? Nancy Johnson Jason Foss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings! I penned a bit of a summary of some of the things I learned at WE04, and Sitepoint have published it! http://www.sitepoint.com or straight to the article: http://www.sitepoint.com/article/essentials-modern-web-design Did I miss anything imprtant? Well, it's too late now if I did, but I think I covered mostly everything within the scope of the article. (Not everything at the conference mind you!) -- Jason Foss Almost Anything Desktop Publishing www.almost-anything.com.au Windows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] North Rockhampton, Queensland, Australia We can do almost anything! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [WSG] WE04 Summary (blowing my own trumpet)
1. Where can I find a good example of how forms should be laid out for accessibility. Try these: http://www.d.umn.edu/itss/support/Training/Online/webdesign/accessibility.ht ml#forms http://www.nils.org.au/ais/web/resources/WSG_Oct_04/toc.html 2. Comment on div tags. If we are not suppose to use tables for layout and div tags are supposed to be used with restraint. What other options with layout are there? Are you referring to this: 7. div and span elements have no real semantic meaning, so use them judiciously. I'm not saying don't use them, but if there is another element that explains the content, use it instead! This seems to be talking more about the direct mark-up of content than overall positioning. With marking up content, the aim is to use the most correct elements (the element that has the most meaning) where possible and use divs only if needed. With overall layout, the aim is to get away from tables and unnecessary divs - there may be times when you can position an element directly. For example: If you use a ul for your navigation, you may not need to place the ul inside a div - you could apply positioning style to the ul directly. However, if the nav also needed other elements, you would probably need to wrap them all in a div and position that. Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] WE04 Summary (blowing my own trumpet)
From: Nancy Johnson 1. Where can I find a good example of how forms should be laid out for accessibility. Two decent ones: http://www.webaim.org/techniques/forms/ http://www.accessify.com/tutorials/better-accessible-forms.asp 2. Comment on div tags. If we are not suppose to use tables for layout and div tags are supposed to be used with restraint. What other options with layout are there? What other options do you need? A lot of people switching from table based to tableless end up wrapping all sorts of things in divs (and assigning hundreds of classes, rather than taking advantage of all other types of selectors, and overusing spans) when it's not necessary. For instance: a lot of elements are already block containers by default, so there's no point in wrapping them up in an extra div to float them or position them. e.g. instead of something like this div id=navigation ul li.../li li.../li li.../li /ul /div you can just do ul id=navigation li.../li li.../li li.../li /ul And even if elements are not block level by nature, they can be forced to display as such with display: block in CSS. Hmm...just seen that Aaron already replied while I was still typing, pretty much saying the same thing...but what the heck, I've wrote this much, I'm going to send it anyway ;) Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster / University of Salford http://www.salford.ac.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] WE04 Summary (blowing my own trumpet)
Try this: Accessible usable forms: Guidelines, examples and JavaScript tricks. http://www.websemantics.co.uk/tutorials/form_guidelines/ mike 2k:)2 marqueeblink e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] site: http://www.webSemantics.co.uk /marquee/blink -Original Message- From: Patrick Lauke [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 28 October 2004 15:08 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] WE04 Summary (blowing my own trumpet) From: Nancy Johnson 1. Where can I find a good example of how forms should be laid out for accessibility. Two decent ones: http://www.webaim.org/techniques/forms/ http://www.accessify.com/tutorials/better-accessible-forms.asp 2. Comment on div tags. If we are not suppose to use tables for layout and div tags are supposed to be used with restraint. What other options with layout are there? What other options do you need? A lot of people switching from table based to tableless end up wrapping all sorts of things in divs (and assigning hundreds of classes, rather than taking advantage of all other types of selectors, and overusing spans) when it's not necessary. For instance: a lot of elements are already block containers by default, so there's no point in wrapping them up in an extra div to float them or position them. e.g. instead of something like this div id=navigation ul li.../li li.../li li.../li /ul /div you can just do ul id=navigation li.../li li.../li li.../li /ul And even if elements are not block level by nature, they can be forced to display as such with display: block in CSS. Hmm...just seen that Aaron already replied while I was still typing, pretty much saying the same thing...but what the heck, I've wrote this much, I'm going to send it anyway ;) Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster / University of Salford http://www.salford.ac.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] WE04 Summary (blowing my own trumpet)
On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:32:56 +1000, Jason Foss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Did I miss anything imprtant? Yes. A 'z' in: http://www.mezoblue.com/ :) -- Lindsay Evans http://lindsayevans.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] WE04 Summary (blowing my own trumpet)
congrats! I like your car analogy... ./tdw Jason Foss wrote: Greetings! I penned a bit of a summary of some of the things I learned at WE04, and Sitepoint have published it! http://www.sitepoint.com or straight to the article: http://www.sitepoint.com/article/essentials-modern-web-design Did I miss anything imprtant? Well, it's too late now if I did, but I think I covered mostly everything within the scope of the article. (Not everything at the conference mind you!) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] WE04 Summary (blowing my own trumpet)
Oops - I'll get that fixed. Keen eye! Thanks! On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:18:59 +1000, Lindsay Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:32:56 +1000, Jason Foss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Did I miss anything imprtant? Yes. A 'z' in: http://www.mezoblue.com/ :) -- Lindsay Evans http://lindsayevans.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Jason Foss Almost Anything Desktop Publishing www.almost-anything.com.au Windows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] North Rockhampton, Queensland, Australia We can do almost anything! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
