Re: [wsjt-devel] 5 minute mouse timeout
Folks, Sorry to add in a slightly wider issue and I hesitate to raise this as some will perceive this as a joke ... and this issue is GENUINE and with observed consequences ... with even more potentially dangerous consequence for AR and automated modes some as issues of regulatory nature may exist in many domains. Australia, NZ and many EU nations I believe are in this category. It is possible for (and often done by) ops to set the software into extended Tx cycles (i.e. 99 minutes) by design; yet more dangerously if the “tune” button if accidentally set it is possible to Tx indefinitely. Ten (10 ) mins of constant Tx / Tx cycle is the regulation in most dominions that am aware of regulation of, for “normal”, non-repeater-based Amateur licenses (even in some dominions with Callsign encoded) ! Regulators are a little more lenient with software that Tx cycle as we know – it is well known software and radios that can beacon almost indefinitely. [ This beaconing issue and radios left directly unattended has I know raised discussion in our Australian regulator as here repeater licenses are believed to only cover such operation ]. Many of us have WSJT-X just sitting there – listening – reporting to Clusters, etc. - or we have it sitting there and we just watch. Yet I had a potentially serious incident several years back where an accident has led to the “Tune” button being set (i.e. a fallen book). In my circumstance I was contacted by a friendly “Field Ops regulator agent” that knew me, directly, and advised to cease Tx (which I did). There has been subsequent comment internally within the regulator’s Agency that there was considerable comment regarding this ability. For the record, the Yaesu FT-991 came out unscathed ! Some will laugh and snigger and say FOOL ! Yet I have been contacted now by 4 other Amateurs in recent times – two fellow VKs and 2 K’s - who have had similar issues yet not been so lucky with their general-purpose transceivers (all Icom’s with 2 being 7300’s) ... I observed another instance of this again occurred 24 hours back; I guessed who it was, contacted them directly, and they were extremely grateful of the contact ! It is again suspected that they had a pet (a cat) jump onto keyboard and trigger the tune cycle. The third instance of this that I was aware of Yes ... yes ... yes ... one can say that there are procedural steps that can be taken. Yes all regulatory domains say that AR equipment must be in monitored, secured environs... But accidents can and do happen. Proven fact. “The main fork” has placed a configurable “tune timer” on the “tune” control. To deal with some of Joe’s identified issues and comments in this thread , perhaps the “99 minute” Tx cycle needs to be reduced? There is no need whatsoever for such a long cycle set !!! Entries to control maximum Tx duration / cycle could say be set in wsjt-x.ini; I do not believe that there is any need for any GUI interaction on this limit. As a minimum, with considerable evidence for mounting, I feel that there definitely needs to be a default timeout value extended to the tune control (i.e. 3 mins max default). Logic to implement this is basic and inconsequential on performance; I have tested this myself even with RC4 compiled under Qt 5.9 in JTSDK 3.0.1. The issue is not only restricted to the “JT software”; other maintainers of software have also been advised. Most are very receptive. 73 Steve I Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10 From: Chuck Furman Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2018 7:34:27 AM To: WSJT software development Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] 5 minute mouse timeout Hi Joe, Sorry about my last email regarding the five minute timer. I was typing it at the same time you were sending your message. I’m very happy to hear what you said about the timer. On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 2:26 PM Joe Taylor mailto:j...@princeton.edu>> wrote: Hi all, Please! No need for any more comments about a 5 minute mouse-movement timeout! This feature was never intended to be a permanent addition. It had to do only with preventing trivial robotic use of WSJT-X during a digi-mode contest. Evidently it was a bad idea. Already, several days ago, it was committed to the dustbin of history. -- Joe, K1JT ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net<mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
Re: [wsjt-devel] 5 minute mouse timeout
Hi Joe, Sorry about my last email regarding the five minute timer. I was typing it at the same time you were sending your message. I’m very happy to hear what you said about the timer. On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 2:26 PM Joe Taylor wrote: > Hi all, > > Please! No need for any more comments about a 5 minute mouse-movement > timeout! This feature was never intended to be a permanent addition. > It had to do only with preventing trivial robotic use of WSJT-X during a > digi-mode contest. > > Evidently it was a bad idea. Already, several days ago, it was > committed to the dustbin of history. > > -- Joe, K1JT > > > ___ > wsjt-devel mailing list > wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel > ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
Re: [wsjt-devel] 5 minute mouse timeout
I agree it is time for the developers to explain their reasoning about this change. To my knowledge, they have explained all other changes of this sort that have been made, so the fact they have remained silent on this only leads to speculation on our part. That will end badly. And, in the end, the “feature” will be defeated. Someone will write a bit of code that will implement a “mouse”, or someone will work up a little Arduino device that will impersonate a mouse and defeat the whole thing. This may lead to resentment on both “sides” of this issue. Let’s not have sides, OK? Dave / NX6D From: char...@sucklingfamily.free-online.co.uk Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 11:36:43 AM To: WSJT software development Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] 5 minute mouse timeout Hi All I hope this feature does not apply, or can be disabled, for EME operation. Perhaps there is some merit for HF operation, but I can see anything good in this for VHF/Microwave and EME. Standard QSOs may take longer than 5 mins to get established. Also, we sometimes run tests where one station acts as a temporary beacon for more than 5 minutes. 73 Charlie G3WDG > When I made some meteor scatter contacts on 222 MHz using FSK441 I recall > leaving the radio and computer running for hours at a time. I'm doubtful > those qso's would have been completed if the other operator and I had both > needed to interact with our computers every five minutes in order to keep > transmitting. > > 73 > > Mark Spencer > VE7AFZ > netsyn...@gmail.com > > > >> On Nov 16, 2018, at 10:40 AM, WB5JJJ wrote: >> >> This 5 minute mouse timeout is not a problem for me (most of the time) >> as my WD timer is usually set for 5 minutes. But occasionally the mouse >> timer hits before the WD timer does and no alert is issued our sounded >> (JTA setting). >> >> With all the negative comments about this timer, and no comments one way >> or the other from the developers on retaining this useless feature or >> removing it, I'm left in a quandary as to their thought processes on >> this to begin with. >> >> I for one, see no need in it at all. If somebody wants to run without >> human intervention for and hour at full power and blow out their PA's, >> that's their problem, not mine. >> >> I know of no other feature on any radio or software that protects us >> from ourselves, except for the band edge lockouts on many newer radios, >> which saved my bacon many times when chasing DX as a Technician or >> General class licensee. >> >> George >> >> -- >> >> ___ >> wsjt-devel mailing list >> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Fwsjt-develdata=02%7C01%7C%7C4a67a86a5f4b4c0db37708d64bfb465d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636779939923261996sdata=KI9qoLa7bhgfiKOxP8X7CAQmlKehwmV3d%2BUCX6i2M%2Bw%3Dreserved=0 > ___ > wsjt-devel mailing list > wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Fwsjt-develdata=02%7C01%7C%7C4a67a86a5f4b4c0db37708d64bfb465d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636779939923261996sdata=KI9qoLa7bhgfiKOxP8X7CAQmlKehwmV3d%2BUCX6i2M%2Bw%3Dreserved=0 > ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Fwsjt-develdata=02%7C01%7C%7C4a67a86a5f4b4c0db37708d64bfb465d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636779939923261996sdata=KI9qoLa7bhgfiKOxP8X7CAQmlKehwmV3d%2BUCX6i2M%2Bw%3Dreserved=0 ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
Re: [wsjt-devel] 5 minute mouse timeout
Hi all, Please! No need for any more comments about a 5 minute mouse-movement timeout! This feature was never intended to be a permanent addition. It had to do only with preventing trivial robotic use of WSJT-X during a digi-mode contest. Evidently it was a bad idea. Already, several days ago, it was committed to the dustbin of history. -- Joe, K1JT ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
Re: [wsjt-devel] 5 minute mouse timeout
When I made some meteor scatter contacts on 222 MHz using FSK441 I recall leaving the radio and computer running for hours at a time. I'm doubtful those qso's would have been completed if the other operator and I had both needed to interact with our computers every five minutes in order to keep transmitting. 73 Mark Spencer VE7AFZ netsyn...@gmail.com > On Nov 16, 2018, at 10:40 AM, WB5JJJ wrote: > > This 5 minute mouse timeout is not a problem for me (most of the time) as my > WD timer is usually set for 5 minutes. But occasionally the mouse timer hits > before the WD timer does and no alert is issued our sounded (JTA setting). > > With all the negative comments about this timer, and no comments one way or > the other from the developers on retaining this useless feature or removing > it, I'm left in a quandary as to their thought processes on this to begin > with. > > I for one, see no need in it at all. If somebody wants to run without human > intervention for and hour at full power and blow out their PA's, that's their > problem, not mine. > > I know of no other feature on any radio or software that protects us from > ourselves, except for the band edge lockouts on many newer radios, which > saved my bacon many times when chasing DX as a Technician or General class > licensee. > > George > > -- > > ___ > wsjt-devel mailing list > wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
[wsjt-devel] 5 minute mouse timeout
This 5 minute mouse timeout is not a problem for me (most of the time) as my WD timer is usually set for 5 minutes. But occasionally the mouse timer hits before the WD timer does and no alert is issued our sounded (JTA setting). With all the negative comments about this timer, and no comments one way or the other from the developers on retaining this useless feature or removing it, I'm left in a quandary as to their thought processes on this to begin with. I for one, see no need in it at all. If somebody wants to run without human intervention for and hour at full power and blow out their PA's, that's their problem, not mine. I know of no other feature on any radio or software that protects us from ourselves, except for the band edge lockouts on many newer radios, which saved my bacon many times when chasing DX as a Technician or General class licensee. George -- ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
