Re: [wsjt-devel] Feature Request: Hound Mode

2021-10-12 Thread Jeff Stillinger via wsjt-devel 
Thank you Bill, Neil, and James for helping make my earlier point. Open 
source code allows a station to completely customize the U.I. for their 
style of operations.   So for those that are on the fox/hound hunt and 
desire the checkbox in a specific location for their operations, simply 
move it to the location desired. Otherwise, we have to recognize and 
understand that this particular development team has thought EVERYTHING 
through to the end point. From robo stations, to operational mistakes.   
All thought of and dealt with in a very reasonable way, with providing 
the flexibility to allow customizing a station.


If someone isn't skilled with coding, then hire someone.  People hire 
painters to do a custom job on a house or car.  People hire landscapers 
to create a custom yard.  People hire tailors to customize a suit or 
dress.  The barber or hair stylist to create a custom hair cut.   People 
even hire breeders to produce custom pets.  So why not custom software?





On 10/11/21 4:17 AM, Bill Somerville via wsjt-devel wrote:

Jon,

that was an attempt to defeat some of the more trivial robot stations, 
unfortunately the mass opinion was that it was a misfeature so perhaps 
everyone is quite happy for the FT8 sub-bands to gradually fill with 
unattended robot operations?


73
Bill
G4WJS.

On 11/10/2021 03:48, Jon Anhold via wsjt-devel wrote:
This seems like similar logic to that that led to the 
ill-conceived "move the log-it button randomly" feature.


On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 10:45 PM James Shaver (N2ADV) via wsjt-devel 
 wrote:


The check box used to be on the main screen of the UI and people
kept checking it by mistake and causing all sorts of issues and
questions so it was moved to the menu and those questions and
issues ceased to be replaced by a less frequent request to put it
back where it was. The needs of the many and all that…





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--
Jeff Stillinger - KB6IBB
KB6IBB Laboratories
Wylie, Texas - United States
http://kb6ibb-15.ham-radio-op.net/Ham-Radio/

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Feature Request: Hound Mode

2021-10-11 Thread Neil Zampella via wsjt-devel 

Grant,

I have no idea where you got the idea that I said a 'clear frequency'
doesn't matter, not sure that James said anything of the sort
either.  You always check for a clear spot to Tx from, no matter
what mode or special contest activity you're using.    For Fox/Hound,
you wait one period to see where the other hounds are, find the spot
above 1000 hz, and go for it.

Of course, what may be 'clear' to you, may not be clear to someone 1000
miles away, such is the nature of propagation.

Neil, KN3ILZ

On 10/10/2021 11:20 PM, Grant Willis wrote:

Jim,

FYI - Neil and James don't believe a clear frequency matters based on
past conversations I have had with them. I contend they have never
tried chasing DX where every path starts at 8000 miles (ie out of VK).
The standard FT8 channels are so congested these days that trying to
target working particular stations can be futile because I can't find
(and don't know) a clear RX slot at the other end of the path to try
calling on. I have called it the "hidden transmitter" syndrome in a
conversation with Joe K1JT in the past, but he didn't seem to
understand the reference (it was an old description of CSMA problems
we used to have on AX.25 packet nets when not everyone could hear
everyone). A similar situation impacts the decision making when
picking a channel to transmit on today in FT8 - which notably Phil
Karn KA9Q also has picked up on in some of his recent posts to the list.

As for the choice of 40m FT4 frequency - I had quite animated
arguments with Bill Somerville about it - and all logic fell on deaf
ears. Through my IARU global HF band planning reform proposals I am
hoping we can finally address that injustice.

Best regards,
Grant VK5GR
IARU R3 HF Band Planning Chair


On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 2:20 PM Jim Brown via wsjt-devel
mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>> wrote:

On 10/10/2021 7:12 PM, Neil Zampella via wsjt-devel wrote:
> as F/H specifically requires you to reply to a Fox CQ above 1000
hz, and
> since the decoder decodes the entire passband based on the base
> frequency set, you would not need any 'waterfall history' to
determine
> where to Tx your reply.

Sure we do -- we want to choose a relatively clear frequency to
TX, and
you need that history to make that judgement call. And smart
operators
will occasionally skip TX for a sequence to see what might have
changed.

I had exactly that experience working S9OK today on 12M. Although
they're not running F/H, they are multi-streamed using other
software.
By making what turned out to be a good choice of TX, I worked them
with
two calls from NorCal, an 8,000 mile path.

73, Jim K9YC




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Re: [wsjt-devel] Feature Request: Hound Mode

2021-10-11 Thread Grant VK5GR via wsjt-devel 


-Original Message-
From: James Shaver (N2ADV) [mailto:n2...@windstream.net] 
Sent: Monday, 11 October 2021 11:58 PM
To: WSJT software development
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Feature Request: Hound Mode


"Not sure where in fantasy land you had these conversations but the dev list 
isn’t the place to float personal issues."

It looks like I owe you and others a sincere apology as that email was not 
intended for the list.



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Feature Request: Hound Mode

2021-10-11 Thread James Shaver (N2ADV) via wsjt-devel 
“ Neil and James don't believe a clear frequency matters based on past 
conversations I have had with them.”

Not sure where in fantasy land you had these conversations but the dev list 
isn’t the place to float personal issues. 



> On Oct 11, 2021, at 12:22 AM, Grant Willis via wsjt-devel 
>  wrote:
> 
> Neil and James don't believe a clear frequency matters based on past 
> conversations I have had with them.



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Feature Request: Hound Mode

2021-10-11 Thread Jim Brown via wsjt-devel 

On 10/11/2021 2:22 AM, Bill Somerville via wsjt-devel wrote:
that space is basically an illusion. The reason is that the main window 
layout is largely shared by all modes and variants, the exceptions to 
that are WSPR, FST4W, Frequency calibration, and EME Echo mode. What 
appears to be empty space is almost always a hidden widget that appears 
with some other mode or mode variant.


I understand -- a byproduct of simplifying code, and worthy in the goal 
of getting product out the door, with which I agree. Perhaps, over time, 
and the product has been out the door for a while, the simplicity in 
writing code might be sacrificed on the altar of improving usability by 
taking another approach to generating those screens? Note that my 
programming background is old and limited, but even that was enough to 
appreciate the skills and attention to detail of those like you who 
practice it.


But I was a FAR better designer and consultant for performance sound 
systems because I had also worked providing and recording live sound, 
and having listened to others with similar but sometimes very different 
experience. I also served (and still do) on the Standards Committee of 
the Audio Engineering Society, and our Standards benefit from Working 
Group members who work in many different parts of pro audio, from radio 
and television to recording and live sound, and many who have worked in 
several of these areas.


As a writer of international Standards, I've always tried to understand 
and while understanding the "big picture" of needs, good engineering 
practice, and the practicalities of marketing and economics.


73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [wsjt-devel] Feature Request: Hound Mode

2021-10-11 Thread Bill Somerville via wsjt-devel 

On 11/10/2021 08:45, Jim Brown via wsjt-devel wrote:

On 10/10/2021 11:02 PM, Peter Sumner via wsjt-devel wrote:

Rather than extra buttons / tick boxes on the existing busy screen


I hardly see the FT8/FT4 main screen as "busy" -- indeed, I see plenty 
of empty real estate for these two tick boxes with labels (or buttons 
with labels within the buttons that change state). I really object to 
the "lowest common denominator" view of what hams should be able to 
understand, especially with those who can't bother to read the manual! 
After all, a minimal test is required for VHF operation, and a greater 
one for most HF privileges.


As has been observed, the conflict between contest mode and normal 
mode drives all users nuts, contesters and non-contesters, on VHF/UHF, 
where contest operation is on the usual channels. And the need for the 
F/H switch is pretty obvious to those who use it. Granted, thanks to 
COVID, there have been precious few expeditions to work, but hopefully 
that will soon get us back to more normal conditions.


73, Jim K9YC 


Jim,

that space is basically an illusion. The reason is that the main window 
layout is largely shared by all modes and variants, the exceptions to 
that are WSPR, FST4W, Frequency calibration, and EME Echo mode. What 
appears to be empty space is almost always a hidden widget that appears 
with some other mode or mode variant.


73
Bill
G4WJS.
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Feature Request: Hound Mode

2021-10-11 Thread Bill Somerville via wsjt-devel 

Jon,

that was an attempt to defeat some of the more trivial robot stations, 
unfortunately the mass opinion was that it was a misfeature so perhaps 
everyone is quite happy for the FT8 sub-bands to gradually fill with 
unattended robot operations?


73
Bill
G4WJS.

On 11/10/2021 03:48, Jon Anhold via wsjt-devel wrote:
This seems like similar logic to that that led to the 
ill-conceived "move the log-it button randomly" feature.


On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 10:45 PM James Shaver (N2ADV) via wsjt-devel 
 wrote:


The check box used to be on the main screen of the UI and people
kept checking it by mistake and causing all sorts of issues and
questions so it was moved to the menu and those questions and
issues ceased to be replaced by a less frequent request to put it
back where it was. The needs of the many and all that…

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Feature Request: Hound Mode

2021-10-11 Thread Jim Brown via wsjt-devel 

On 10/10/2021 11:02 PM, Peter Sumner via wsjt-devel wrote:

Rather than extra buttons / tick boxes on the existing busy screen


I hardly see the FT8/FT4 main screen as "busy" -- indeed, I see plenty 
of empty real estate for these two tick boxes with labels (or buttons 
with labels within the buttons that change state). I really object to 
the "lowest common denominator" view of what hams should be able to 
understand, especially with those who can't bother to read the manual! 
After all, a minimal test is required for VHF operation, and a greater 
one for most HF privileges.


As has been observed, the conflict between contest mode and normal mode 
drives all users nuts, contesters and non-contesters, on VHF/UHF, where 
contest operation is on the usual channels. And the need for the F/H 
switch is pretty obvious to those who use it. Granted, thanks to COVID, 
there have been precious few expeditions to work, but hopefully that 
will soon get us back to more normal conditions.


73, Jim K9YC




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Re: [wsjt-devel] Feature Request: Hound Mode

2021-10-11 Thread Peter Sumner via wsjt-devel 
for the F/H - Contest brigade

Rather than extra buttons / tick boxes on the existing busy screen for a
dedicated group of users, would a small pop-out window like that used for
the Astronomical data display be a better proposal?

I know its a bit of a radical shift of thinking and of course would
initially require an extra mouse click but once opened it is from my eme
experience it is remembered.

The DEV team may consider this as a viable option to duplicate / group the
extra contest and F/H bits on rather than a re-hash of the GUI?

just a passing thought..

Regards,
Peter vk5pj



>
>
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Feature Request: Hound Mode

2021-10-10 Thread Grant Willis via wsjt-devel 
Jim,

FYI - Neil and James don't believe a clear frequency matters based on past
conversations I have had with them. I contend they have never tried chasing
DX where every path starts at 8000 miles (ie out of VK). The standard FT8
channels are so congested these days that trying to target working
particular stations can be futile because I can't find (and don't know) a
clear RX slot at the other end of the path to try calling on. I have called
it the "hidden transmitter" syndrome in a conversation with Joe K1JT in the
past, but he didn't seem to understand the reference (it was an old
description of CSMA problems we used to have on AX.25 packet nets when not
everyone could hear everyone). A similar situation impacts the
decision making when picking a channel to transmit on today in FT8 - which
notably Phil Karn KA9Q also has picked up on in some of his recent posts to
the list.

As for the choice of 40m FT4 frequency - I had quite animated arguments
with Bill Somerville about it - and all logic fell on deaf ears. Through my
IARU global HF band planning reform proposals I am hoping we can finally
address that injustice.

Best regards,
Grant VK5GR
IARU R3 HF Band Planning Chair


On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 2:20 PM Jim Brown via wsjt-devel <
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> On 10/10/2021 7:12 PM, Neil Zampella via wsjt-devel wrote:
> > as F/H specifically requires you to reply to a Fox CQ above 1000 hz, and
> > since the decoder decodes the entire passband based on the base
> > frequency set, you would not need any 'waterfall history' to determine
> > where to Tx your reply.
>
> Sure we do -- we want to choose a relatively clear frequency to TX, and
> you need that history to make that judgement call. And smart operators
> will occasionally skip TX for a sequence to see what might have changed.
>
> I had exactly that experience working S9OK today on 12M. Although
> they're not running F/H, they are multi-streamed using other software.
> By making what turned out to be a good choice of TX, I worked them with
> two calls from NorCal, an 8,000 mile path.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
>
>
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Feature Request: Hound Mode

2021-10-10 Thread Jim Brown via wsjt-devel 

On 10/10/2021 7:12 PM, Neil Zampella via wsjt-devel wrote:
as F/H specifically requires you to reply to a Fox CQ above 1000 hz, and 
since the decoder decodes the entire passband based on the base 
frequency set, you would not need any 'waterfall history' to determine 
where to Tx your reply.


Sure we do -- we want to choose a relatively clear frequency to TX, and 
you need that history to make that judgement call. And smart operators 
will occasionally skip TX for a sequence to see what might have changed.


I had exactly that experience working S9OK today on 12M. Although 
they're not running F/H, they are multi-streamed using other software. 
By making what turned out to be a good choice of TX, I worked them with 
two calls from NorCal, an 8,000 mile path.


73, Jim K9YC




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Re: [wsjt-devel] Feature Request: Hound Mode

2021-10-10 Thread Jim Brown via wsjt-devel 
Well said, Grant. From where I sit, very active on 6M, and both DX 
chasing and contesting on HF and MF, the only poor decisions made by by 
the design team are based on their lack of broad experience below VHF. 
That's the only possible explanation for how 40M FT4 ended up where it did.


Your comments are spot on, and describe how active contesters and DX 
chasers operate, and the PITA you describe is 1) why configurations are 
NOT a viable solution, and why main screen access to OPERATIONAL 
controls like Fox/Hound mode and Contest Mode is vital to serious 
operators.


73, Jim K9YC

On 10/10/2021 6:49 PM, Grant Willis via wsjt-devel wrote:

Neil,

I wish to take a moment please to outline what I see is the problem with 
the configuration options as a solution that everyone keeps answering 
with when this comes up. I dont think the case why the configuration 
mode changes annoy many has ever been clearly articulated.


If I am tuning around the band and see some FT8, dial my receiver onto 
it and see what is happening. If I see they are running in F/H mode - 
then if I use configurations to change to that mode,  I need to often a) 
add a frequency to the config, b) reselect the frequency I was just on 
and c) loose the waterfall history I would want to use to pick where to 
drop my transmitter to start calling.


In quick fire DX Chasing that is all lost time and multiplication of 
effort that to be frank is a PITA.


The reason people keep asking for a button to switch to hound mode and 
back on the main screen is so they can do what people should more 
naturally be doing - that is spin the dial of their radio, look at 
what's on the band, and then pick the right mode to work what they hear 
*/_quickly and efficiently_/*. Sure the work arounds work - but they are 
clunky and kludgy to a DX operator.


The alternative solutions might be - preserve the 
frequency/band/sub-frequency settings across a configuration settings 
change and get the waterfall not to be reset when you swap 
configurations. I believe that would be much more work for the 
programming team than having a simple tick switch linked to hound mode 
on / off on the main page. Having said that, the developers have made it 
clear they are not interested - so yes it is also a lost cause.


Oh and to those that say "grab the source and roll your own" - not 
everyone can or has the time to write software and roll their own.


Regards,
Grant VK5GR




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Re: [wsjt-devel] Feature Request: Hound Mode

2021-10-10 Thread Jon Anhold via wsjt-devel 
This seems like similar logic to that that led to the ill-conceived "move
the log-it button randomly" feature.

On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 10:45 PM James Shaver (N2ADV) via wsjt-devel <
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> The check box used to be on the main screen of the UI and people kept
> checking it by mistake and causing all sorts of issues and questions so it
> was moved to the menu and those questions and issues ceased to be replaced
> by a less frequent request to put it back where it was. The needs of the
> many and all that…
>
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Feature Request: Hound Mode

2021-10-10 Thread James Shaver (N2ADV) via wsjt-devel 
The check box used to be on the main screen of the UI and people kept checking 
it by mistake and causing all sorts of issues and questions so it was moved to 
the menu and those questions and issues ceased to be replaced by a less 
frequent request to put it back where it was. The needs of the many and all 
that…

> On Oct 10, 2021, at 10:14 PM, Neil Zampella via wsjt-devel 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Grant,
> 
> as F/H specifically requires you to reply to a Fox CQ above 1000 hz, and 
> since the decoder decodes the entire passband based on the base frequency 
> set, you would not need any 'waterfall history' to determine where to Tx your 
> reply.
> 
> Maybe I'm missing the point.
> 
> That said, my reply was specifically to Dennis who was saying he would forget 
> to switch back to normal FT8 mode after using one of the 'special' modes.
> 
> Neil, KN3ILZ
> 
> On 10/10/2021 8:49 PM, Grant Willis wrote:
>> Neil,
>> 
>> I wish to take a moment please to outline what I see is the problem with the 
>> configuration options as a solution that everyone keeps answering with when 
>> this comes up. I dont think the case why the configuration mode changes 
>> annoy many has ever been clearly articulated.
>> 
>> If I am tuning around the band and see some FT8, dial my receiver onto it 
>> and see what is happening. If I see they are running in F/H mode - then if I 
>> use configurations to change to that mode,  I need to often a) add a 
>> frequency to the config, b) reselect the frequency I was just on and c) 
>> loose the waterfall history I would want to use to pick where to drop my 
>> transmitter to start calling.
>> 
>> In quick fire DX Chasing that is all lost time and multiplication of effort 
>> that to be frank is a PITA.
>> 
>> The reason people keep asking for a button to switch to hound mode and back 
>> on the main screen is so they can do what people should more naturally be 
>> doing - that is spin the dial of their radio, look at what's on the band, 
>> and then pick the right mode to work what they hear quickly and efficiently. 
>> Sure the work arounds work - but they are clunky and kludgy to a DX operator.
>> 
>> The alternative solutions might be - preserve the 
>> frequency/band/sub-frequency settings across a configuration settings change 
>> and get the waterfall not to be reset when you swap configurations. I 
>> believe that would be much more work for the programming team than having a 
>> simple tick switch linked to hound mode on / off on the main page. Having 
>> said that, the developers have made it clear they are not interested - so 
>> yes it is also a lost cause.
>> 
>> Oh and to those that say "grab the source and roll your own" - not everyone 
>> can or has the time to write software and roll their own. 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Grant VK5GR
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 11:55 AM Neil Zampella via wsjt-devel 
>>  wrote:
>>> In your case I would suggest create a separate CONFIGURATION for each mode 
>>> you're using.You can setup one for regular use, then one for other 
>>> special modes such as the NA VHF contest, Field Day, Fox & Hound, etc. 
>>> 
>>> All you need to do is switch over to the mode you're going to use by 
>>> selecting the configuration. 
>>> 
>>> I've been using this feature since it was first created.
>>> 
>>> Neil, KN3ILZ
>>> 
>>> On 10/10/2021 6:12 PM, Dennis Younker NE6I wrote:
>>>> Put me down for also wishing to have that on the main screen. Or more 
>>>> accurately in my case, having a check box or link on the main screen that 
>>>> is linked to Special Operating Activity. Yes, handy to quickly go to and 
>>>> from F/H mode but also convenient at the start and end of one of the 
>>>> contests listed on the Advanced tab. I have, for example, operated an NA 
>>>> VHF Contest over a weekend and then forgot to uncheck the box after the 
>>>> contest. And then been bitten for a moment later in the week when 
>>>> operating normal FT8 or MSK.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> I am not a programmer and not interested in becoming one (again). It’s 
>>>> great that the source code is available for anyone to modify to their 
>>>> heart’s content but I’m not interested in doing that. I did a lot of 
>>>> programming and compiling of code several decades ago, and spent MANY an 
>>>> all nighter doing that. That ship has now sailed for me

Re: [wsjt-devel] Feature Request: Hound Mode

2021-10-10 Thread Neil Zampella via wsjt-devel 

Grant,

as F/H specifically requires you to reply to a Fox CQ above 1000 hz, and
since the decoder decodes the entire passband based on the base
frequency set, you would not need any 'waterfall history' to determine
where to Tx your reply.

Maybe I'm missing the point.

That said, my reply was specifically to Dennis who was saying he would
forget to switch back to normal FT8 mode after using one of the
'special' modes.

Neil, KN3ILZ

On 10/10/2021 8:49 PM, Grant Willis wrote:

Neil,

I wish to take a moment please to outline what I see is the problem
with the configuration options as a solution that everyone keeps
answering with when this comes up. I dont think the case why the
configuration mode changes annoy many has ever been clearly articulated.

If I am tuning around the band and see some FT8, dial my receiver onto
it and see what is happening. If I see they are running in F/H mode -
then if I use configurations to change to that mode,  I need to often
a) add a frequency to the config, b) reselect the frequency I was just
on and c) loose the waterfall history I would want to use to pick
where to drop my transmitter to start calling.

In quick fire DX Chasing that is all lost time and multiplication of
effort that to be frank is a PITA.

The reason people keep asking for a button to switch to hound mode and
back on the main screen is so they can do what people should more
naturally be doing - that is spin the dial of their radio, look at
what's on the band, and then pick the right mode to work what they
hear */_quickly and efficiently_/*. Sure the work arounds work - but
they are clunky and kludgy to a DX operator.

The alternative solutions might be - preserve the
frequency/band/sub-frequency settings across a configuration settings
change and get the waterfall not to be reset when you swap
configurations. I believe that would be much more work for the
programming team than having a simple tick switch linked to hound mode
on / off on the main page. Having said that, the developers have made
it clear they are not interested - so yes it is also a lost cause.

Oh and to those that say "grab the source and roll your own" - not
everyone can or has the time to write software and roll their own.

Regards,
Grant VK5GR





On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 11:55 AM Neil Zampella via wsjt-devel
mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>> wrote:

In your case I would suggest create a separate CONFIGURATION for
each mode you're using.    You can setup one for regular use, then
one for other special modes such as the NA VHF contest, Field Day,
Fox & Hound, etc.

All you need to do is switch over to the mode you're going to use
by selecting the configuration.

I've been using this feature since it was first created.

Neil, KN3ILZ

On 10/10/2021 6:12 PM, Dennis Younker NE6I wrote:


Put me down for also wishing to have that on the main screen. Or
more accurately in my case, having a check box or link on the
main screen that is linked to Special Operating Activity. Yes,
handy to quickly go to and from F/H mode but also convenient at
the start and end of one of the contests listed on the Advanced
tab. I have, for example, operated an NA VHF Contest over a
weekend and then forgot to uncheck the box after the contest. And
then been bitten for a moment later in the week when operating
normal FT8 or MSK.

I am not a programmer and not interested in becoming one (again).
It’s great that the source code is available for anyone to modify
to their heart’s content but I’m not interested in doing that. I
did a lot of programming and compiling of code several decades
ago, and spent MANY an all nighter doing that. That ship has now
sailed for me, and I’m not interested in getting on board again.

I am hugely appreciative of K1JT and the entire WSJT-X team for
their work. I for one know how much time and effort goes into
this. It’s truly a labor of love.

--Dennis NE6I

*From:* Jeff Stillinger via wsjt-devel

<mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
*Sent:* Sunday, October 10, 2021 9:53 AM
*To:* WSJT software development

<mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
*Cc:* Jeff Stillinger 
<mailto:kb6...@zohomail.com>
    *Subject:* Re: [wsjt-devel] Feature Request: Hound Mode

Not exactly a secret.  For building on Microsoft virus, the sdk
is located here:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/jtsdk/
<https://sourceforge.net/projects/jtsdk/>

It is my understanding that it's going through some updates, but
what is posted should work.  Last time I played with it was back
in version 1.7.  I haven't kept up with that platform since I do
everything on Linux.



On 10/10/21 10:43 AM, Jon Anhold wrote:

Hi Jeff,

Yes, I agree - I am a contributor to some other open source
projects. Thanks for your helpf

Re: [wsjt-devel] Feature Request: Hound Mode

2021-10-10 Thread Grant Willis via wsjt-devel 
Neil,

I wish to take a moment please to outline what I see is the problem with
the configuration options as a solution that everyone keeps answering with
when this comes up. I dont think the case why the configuration mode
changes annoy many has ever been clearly articulated.

If I am tuning around the band and see some FT8, dial my receiver onto it
and see what is happening. If I see they are running in F/H mode - then if
I use configurations to change to that mode,  I need to often a) add a
frequency to the config, b) reselect the frequency I was just on and c)
loose the waterfall history I would want to use to pick where to drop my
transmitter to start calling.

In quick fire DX Chasing that is all lost time and multiplication of effort
that to be frank is a PITA.

The reason people keep asking for a button to switch to hound mode and back
on the main screen is so they can do what people should more naturally be
doing - that is spin the dial of their radio, look at what's on the band,
and then pick the right mode to work what they hear *quickly and
efficiently*. Sure the work arounds work - but they are clunky and kludgy
to a DX operator.

The alternative solutions might be - preserve the
frequency/band/sub-frequency settings across a configuration settings
change and get the waterfall not to be reset when you swap configurations.
I believe that would be much more work for the programming team than having
a simple tick switch linked to hound mode on / off on the main page. Having
said that, the developers have made it clear they are not interested - so
yes it is also a lost cause.

Oh and to those that say "grab the source and roll your own" - not everyone
can or has the time to write software and roll their own.

Regards,
Grant VK5GR





On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 11:55 AM Neil Zampella via wsjt-devel <
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> In your case I would suggest create a separate CONFIGURATION for each mode
> you're using.You can setup one for regular use, then one for other
> special modes such as the NA VHF contest, Field Day, Fox & Hound, etc.
>
> All you need to do is switch over to the mode you're going to use by
> selecting the configuration.
>
> I've been using this feature since it was first created.
>
> Neil, KN3ILZ
> On 10/10/2021 6:12 PM, Dennis Younker NE6I wrote:
>
> Put me down for also wishing to have that on the main screen. Or more
> accurately in my case, having a check box or link on the main screen that
> is linked to Special Operating Activity. Yes, handy to quickly go to and
> from F/H mode but also convenient at the start and end of one of the
> contests listed on the Advanced tab. I have, for example, operated an NA
> VHF Contest over a weekend and then forgot to uncheck the box after the
> contest. And then been bitten for a moment later in the week when operating
> normal FT8 or MSK.
>
>
>
> I am not a programmer and not interested in becoming one (again). It’s
> great that the source code is available for anyone to modify to their
> heart’s content but I’m not interested in doing that. I did a lot of
> programming and compiling of code several decades ago, and spent MANY an
> all nighter doing that. That ship has now sailed for me, and I’m not
> interested in getting on board again.
>
>
>
> I am hugely appreciative of K1JT and the entire WSJT-X team for their
> work. I for one know how much time and effort goes into this. It’s truly a
> labor of love.
>
>
>
> --Dennis NE6I
>
>
>
> *From:* Jeff Stillinger via wsjt-devel 
> 
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 10, 2021 9:53 AM
> *To:* WSJT software development 
> 
> *Cc:* Jeff Stillinger  
> *Subject:* Re: [wsjt-devel] Feature Request: Hound Mode
>
>
>
> Not exactly a secret.  For building on Microsoft virus, the sdk is located
> here:
>
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/jtsdk/
>
> It is my understanding that it's going through some updates, but what is
> posted should work.  Last time I played with it was back in version 1.7.  I
> haven't kept up with that platform since I do everything on Linux.
>
>
>
> On 10/10/21 10:43 AM, Jon Anhold wrote:
>
> Hi Jeff,
>
>
>
> Yes, I agree - I am a contributor to some other open source projects.
> Thanks for your helpful suggestion.
>
>
>
> I've given that some thought, but at least the last time I looked the
> build process / toolkit for building WSJT-X on Windows is like top secret
> or something, and I haven't spent any time recently trying to uncover it or
> get it to build.
>
>
>
> Also, unfortunately, it doesn't seem that the authors are very open to
> pull requests, so I make feature suggestions here.
>
>
>
> Thanks & 73 de KM8V Jon
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 9:37

Re: [wsjt-devel] Feature Request: Hound Mode

2021-10-10 Thread Neil Zampella via wsjt-devel 

In your case I would suggest create a separate CONFIGURATION for each
mode you're using.    You can setup one for regular use, then one for
other special modes such as the NA VHF contest, Field Day, Fox & Hound,
etc.

All you need to do is switch over to the mode you're going to use by
selecting the configuration.

I've been using this feature since it was first created.

Neil, KN3ILZ

On 10/10/2021 6:12 PM, Dennis Younker NE6I wrote:


Put me down for also wishing to have that on the main screen. Or more
accurately in my case, having a check box or link on the main screen
that is linked to Special Operating Activity. Yes, handy to quickly go
to and from F/H mode but also convenient at the start and end of one
of the contests listed on the Advanced tab. I have, for example,
operated an NA VHF Contest over a weekend and then forgot to uncheck
the box after the contest. And then been bitten for a moment later in
the week when operating normal FT8 or MSK.

I am not a programmer and not interested in becoming one (again). It’s
great that the source code is available for anyone to modify to their
heart’s content but I’m not interested in doing that. I did a lot of
programming and compiling of code several decades ago, and spent MANY
an all nighter doing that. That ship has now sailed for me, and I’m
not interested in getting on board again.

I am hugely appreciative of K1JT and the entire WSJT-X team for their
work. I for one know how much time and effort goes into this. It’s
truly a labor of love.

--Dennis NE6I

*From:* Jeff Stillinger via wsjt-devel 
*Sent:* Sunday, October 10, 2021 9:53 AM
*To:* WSJT software development 
*Cc:* Jeff Stillinger 
*Subject:* Re: [wsjt-devel] Feature Request: Hound Mode

Not exactly a secret.  For building on Microsoft virus, the sdk is
located here:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/jtsdk/
<https://sourceforge.net/projects/jtsdk/>

It is my understanding that it's going through some updates, but what
is posted should work.  Last time I played with it was back in version
1.7.  I haven't kept up with that platform since I do everything on
Linux.



On 10/10/21 10:43 AM, Jon Anhold wrote:

Hi Jeff,

Yes, I agree - I am a contributor to some other open source
projects. Thanks for your helpful suggestion.

I've given that some thought, but at least the last time I looked
the build process / toolkit for building WSJT-X on Windows is like
top secret or something, and I haven't spent any time recently
trying to uncover it or get it to build.

Also, unfortunately, it doesn't seem that the authors are very
open to pull requests, so I make feature suggestions here.

Thanks & 73 de KM8V Jon

On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 9:37 AM Jeff Stillinger via wsjt-devel
mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>> wrote:

How about an alternative to your prediction.   WSJT-X is open
source.  You have complete access to the source code, and one
of the wonderful conveniences of the package is the ability to
customize the software to a specific style of station operations.

That is the fancy and PC way to say, if you want a button
somewhere specific, then you are free to put it there.  There
are no licensing restrictions, other than your modification
would stay local to your station.   All of the compilers and
libraries are also free and open source.

Have at it and let us know about your progress.




On 10/9/21 9:05 PM, Jon Anhold via wsjt-devel wrote:

I know that this is going to get ignored, or I'm going to
be told to "make a configuration" to "solve" this problem,
but I'll again put in a vote to have a Hound mode checkbox
on the main screen to switch in and out of that mode.

There are several DXPeditions right now, some running
Fox/Hound mode, others running multi-stream NOT fox/hound
mode, and I've found myself switching a LOT back and forth.

Maybe an option to enable an "expert" mode to then display
some of these controls in an easy to use location?

73 de KM8V



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Re: [wsjt-devel] Feature Request: Hound Mode

2021-10-10 Thread Dennis Younker NE6I via wsjt-devel 
Put me down for also wishing to have that on the main screen. Or more 
accurately in my case, having a check box or link on the main screen that is 
linked to Special Operating Activity. Yes, handy to quickly go to and from F/H 
mode but also convenient at the start and end of one of the contests listed on 
the Advanced tab. I have, for example, operated an NA VHF Contest over a 
weekend and then forgot to uncheck the box after the contest. And then been 
bitten for a moment later in the week when operating normal FT8 or MSK. 

 

I am not a programmer and not interested in becoming one (again). It’s great 
that the source code is available for anyone to modify to their heart’s content 
but I’m not interested in doing that. I did a lot of programming and compiling 
of code several decades ago, and spent MANY an all nighter doing that. That 
ship has now sailed for me, and I’m not interested in getting on board again.

 

I am hugely appreciative of K1JT and the entire WSJT-X team for their work. I 
for one know how much time and effort goes into this. It’s truly a labor of 
love. 

 

--Dennis NE6I

 

From: Jeff Stillinger via wsjt-devel  
Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2021 9:53 AM
To: WSJT software development 
Cc: Jeff Stillinger 
Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Feature Request: Hound Mode

 

Not exactly a secret.  For building on Microsoft virus, the sdk is located 
here: 

https://sourceforge.net/projects/jtsdk/

It is my understanding that it's going through some updates, but what is posted 
should work.  Last time I played with it was back in version 1.7.  I haven't 
kept up with that platform since I do everything on Linux.  





On 10/10/21 10:43 AM, Jon Anhold wrote:

Hi Jeff, 

 

Yes, I agree - I am a contributor to some other open source projects. Thanks 
for your helpful suggestion. 

 

I've given that some thought, but at least the last time I looked the build 
process / toolkit for building WSJT-X on Windows is like top secret or 
something, and I haven't spent any time recently trying to uncover it or get it 
to build.

 

Also, unfortunately, it doesn't seem that the authors are very open to pull 
requests, so I make feature suggestions here.

 

Thanks & 73 de KM8V Jon

 

On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 9:37 AM Jeff Stillinger via wsjt-devel 
mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> > 
wrote:

How about an alternative to your prediction.   WSJT-X is open source.  You have 
complete access to the source code, and one of the wonderful conveniences of 
the package is the ability to customize the software to a specific style of 
station operations.

That is the fancy and PC way to say, if you want a button somewhere specific, 
then you are free to put it there.  There are no licensing restrictions, other 
than your modification would stay local to your station.   All of the compilers 
and libraries are also free and open source. 

Have at it and let us know about your progress.






On 10/9/21 9:05 PM, Jon Anhold via wsjt-devel wrote:

I know that this is going to get ignored, or I'm going to be told to "make a 
configuration" to "solve" this problem, but I'll again put in a vote to have a 
Hound mode checkbox on the main screen to switch in and out of that mode. 

 

There are several DXPeditions right now, some running Fox/Hound mode, others 
running multi-stream NOT fox/hound mode, and I've found myself switching a LOT 
back and forth.

 

Maybe an option to enable an "expert" mode to then display some of these 
controls in an easy to use location?

 

73 de KM8V





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Re: [wsjt-devel] Feature Request: Hound Mode

2021-10-10 Thread Jeff Stillinger via wsjt-devel 
Not exactly a secret.  For building on Microsoft virus, the sdk is 
located here:


https://sourceforge.net/projects/jtsdk/

It is my understanding that it's going through some updates, but what is 
posted should work.  Last time I played with it was back in version 
1.7.  I haven't kept up with that platform since I do everything on Linux.





On 10/10/21 10:43 AM, Jon Anhold wrote:

Hi Jeff,

Yes, I agree - I am a contributor to some other open source projects. 
Thanks for your helpful suggestion.


I've given that some thought, but at least the last time I looked the 
build process / toolkit for building WSJT-X on Windows is like top 
secret or something, and I haven't spent any time recently trying to 
uncover it or get it to build.


Also, unfortunately, it doesn't seem that the authors are very open to 
pull requests, so I make feature suggestions here.


Thanks & 73 de KM8V Jon

On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 9:37 AM Jeff Stillinger via wsjt-devel 
> wrote:


How about an alternative to your prediction.   WSJT-X is open
source.  You have complete access to the source code, and one of
the wonderful conveniences of the package is the ability to
customize the software to a specific style of station operations.

That is the fancy and PC way to say, if you want a button
somewhere specific, then you are free to put it there. There are
no licensing restrictions, other than your modification would stay
local to your station.   All of the compilers and libraries are
also free and open source.

Have at it and let us know about your progress.





On 10/9/21 9:05 PM, Jon Anhold via wsjt-devel wrote:

I know that this is going to get ignored, or I'm going to be told
to "make a configuration" to "solve" this problem, but I'll again
put in a vote to have a Hound mode checkbox on the main screen to
switch in and out of that mode.

There are several DXPeditions right now, some running Fox/Hound
mode, others running multi-stream NOT fox/hound mode, and I've
found myself switching a LOT back and forth.

Maybe an option to enable an "expert" mode to then display some
of these controls in an easy to use location?

73 de KM8V


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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel  



-- 
Jeff Stillinger - KB6IBB

KB6IBB Laboratories
Wylie, Texas - United States
http://kb6ibb-15.ham-radio-op.net/Ham-Radio/  


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--
Jeff Stillinger - KB6IBB
KB6IBB Laboratories
Wylie, Texas - United States
http://kb6ibb-15.ham-radio-op.net/Ham-Radio/

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Re: [wsjt-devel] Feature Request: Hound Mode

2021-10-10 Thread Jon Anhold via wsjt-devel 
Hi Jeff,

Yes, I agree - I am a contributor to some other open source projects.
Thanks for your helpful suggestion.

I've given that some thought, but at least the last time I looked the build
process / toolkit for building WSJT-X on Windows is like top secret or
something, and I haven't spent any time recently trying to uncover it or
get it to build.

Also, unfortunately, it doesn't seem that the authors are very open to pull
requests, so I make feature suggestions here.

Thanks & 73 de KM8V Jon

On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 9:37 AM Jeff Stillinger via wsjt-devel <
wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> How about an alternative to your prediction.   WSJT-X is open source.  You
> have complete access to the source code, and one of the wonderful
> conveniences of the package is the ability to customize the software to a
> specific style of station operations.
>
> That is the fancy and PC way to say, if you want a button somewhere
> specific, then you are free to put it there.  There are no licensing
> restrictions, other than your modification would stay local to your
> station.   All of the compilers and libraries are also free and open
> source.
>
> Have at it and let us know about your progress.
>
>
>
>
>
> On 10/9/21 9:05 PM, Jon Anhold via wsjt-devel wrote:
>
> I know that this is going to get ignored, or I'm going to be told to "make
> a configuration" to "solve" this problem, but I'll again put in a vote to
> have a Hound mode checkbox on the main screen to switch in and out of that
> mode.
>
> There are several DXPeditions right now, some running Fox/Hound mode,
> others running multi-stream NOT fox/hound mode, and I've found myself
> switching a LOT back and forth.
>
> Maybe an option to enable an "expert" mode to then display some of these
> controls in an easy to use location?
>
> 73 de KM8V
>
>
> ___
> wsjt-devel mailing 
> listwsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.nethttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
>
>
> --
> Jeff Stillinger - KB6IBB
> KB6IBB Laboratories
> Wylie, Texas - United Stateshttp://kb6ibb-15.ham-radio-op.net/Ham-Radio/
>
> ___
> wsjt-devel mailing list
> wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
>
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Re: [wsjt-devel] Feature Request: Hound Mode

2021-10-10 Thread Jeff Stillinger via wsjt-devel 
How about an alternative to your prediction.   WSJT-X is open source.  
You have complete access to the source code, and one of the wonderful 
conveniences of the package is the ability to customize the software to 
a specific style of station operations.


That is the fancy and PC way to say, if you want a button somewhere 
specific, then you are free to put it there.  There are no licensing 
restrictions, other than your modification would stay local to your 
station.   All of the compilers and libraries are also free and open 
source.


Have at it and let us know about your progress.





On 10/9/21 9:05 PM, Jon Anhold via wsjt-devel wrote:
I know that this is going to get ignored, or I'm going to be told to 
"make a configuration" to "solve" this problem, but I'll again put in 
a vote to have a Hound mode checkbox on the main screen to switch in 
and out of that mode.


There are several DXPeditions right now, some running Fox/Hound mode, 
others running multi-stream NOT fox/hound mode, and I've found myself 
switching a LOT back and forth.


Maybe an option to enable an "expert" mode to then display some of 
these controls in an easy to use location?


73 de KM8V


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--
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KB6IBB Laboratories
Wylie, Texas - United States
http://kb6ibb-15.ham-radio-op.net/Ham-Radio/

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[wsjt-devel] Feature Request: Hound Mode

2021-10-09 Thread Jon Anhold via wsjt-devel 
I know that this is going to get ignored, or I'm going to be told to "make
a configuration" to "solve" this problem, but I'll again put in a vote to
have a Hound mode checkbox on the main screen to switch in and out of that
mode.

There are several DXPeditions right now, some running Fox/Hound mode,
others running multi-stream NOT fox/hound mode, and I've found myself
switching a LOT back and forth.

Maybe an option to enable an "expert" mode to then display some of these
controls in an easy to use location?

73 de KM8V
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