Re: Does XOrg not have any proper HID support at all?
The device responds on the axes and the data is provided by X (xinput test returns a 6 dimensional motion vector), the problem is that only two axes can be CONFIGURED (for example button mapped) - at least the manual only mentions X and Y axes, mouse still had a Z-axes for scroll which was one more. I can only attach my XOrg.log in a week or so because the computer where all this setup was done is currently out of order but again, there should be no problem, certainly no errors or warnings, evdev is loaded properly without any complaints. Thanks for your reply! On 07/26/2010 12:59 AM, Peter Hutterer wrote: On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 04:23:50PM +0200, Cedric Sodhi wrote: Hello, the device is a SpaceNavigator by 3dconnexion. I think I'll have to revise a big part of what I said: Indeed, the device works with all its axes. That was my mistake. The problem is that the evdev driver does not support any configuration for the addinial axes, nor does it offer as many options as the original mouse driver which doesnt even account for the exinstance of the axes. The evdev driver only supports configuration for an X and a Y axis, which is 2 out of 6 axes. I can't get any of the other axes configured - that's my problem. Please attach your Xorg.log file. evdev does support up to 36 arbitrary axes and the only reason I can explain the lack of the extra axes in your case is if your device mixes relative and absolute axes. Cheers, Peter Again, sorry for the confusion, it have been some weeks since I dropped the issue and only recently I had time to mail to you so I actually forgot part of my own problem. On 07/24/2010 04:00 PM, Greg KH wrote: On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 12:24:05PM +0200, Cedric Sodhi wrote: Hello, this is a serious question and a serious issue, as far I can see. For the last month I've been trying all possible workarrounds an tricks I could possibly imagine to get XOrg accept a 6 Degrees Of Freedom HID compliant Input Device Works for me here, have you not used the evdev driver in xorg? The HID driver is in the kernel, not in xorg, and is not a trivial thing to implement (seriously, have you read the HID spec?) What specifically are you having problems with? What are the errors that you get. thanks, greg k-h ___ ___ xorg-devel@lists.x.org: X.Org development Archives: http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel Info: http://lists.x.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg-devel ___ xorg-devel@lists.x.org: X.Org development Archives: http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel Info: http://lists.x.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg-devel
Re: Does XOrg not have any proper HID support at all?
On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 07:59:56AM +0200, Cedric Sodhi wrote: The device responds on the axes and the data is provided by X (xinput test returns a 6 dimensional motion vector), the problem is that only two axes can be CONFIGURED (for example button mapped) - at least the manual only mentions X and Y axes, mouse still had a Z-axes for scroll which was one more. I can only attach my XOrg.log in a week or so because the computer where all this setup was done is currently out of order but again, there should be no problem, certainly no errors or warnings, evdev is loaded properly without any complaints. Thanks for your reply! So is what you're trying to say that it works fine in terms of passing all the axis events through, but you want to be able to map the other axes to buttons, actions, or? I still don't really understand what your actual problem is. Cheers, Daniel signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ xorg-devel@lists.x.org: X.Org development Archives: http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel Info: http://lists.x.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg-devel
Re: Does XOrg not have any proper HID support at all?
Errata: If you know a GIMP specific or any solution to it, of course I'd like to hear it! I just meant that it could distract the discussion :) On 07/26/2010 03:30 PM, Cedric Sodhi wrote: Ok, in all detail, I would not have neglected to describe the whole situation if I had known that you'd like to hear it - was just trying to keep it short, or, as I usually put it: I was trying to keep it abstract to make it as hard as possible to find a solution. ^^ In my case the application I'm doing this for is The GIMP, but please be reminded that this is just an example and you could take any other application where such problem could occur. So please, even if you know that coming versions of the GIMP solve this or know another, GIMP sepcific solution to this, don't mention it, I'm looking for a generic XOrg specific way which solves this once and for good! Particularily, I want to make a space-navigator device [1] control the view in the GIMP by MAPPING BUTTONS TO AXES, because the GIMP lacks native support to properly map axes to actions. But usually anything interactive such as panning, scrolling, etc requires configuring a specific repeat-rate and of course, the button itsself. EVDev doesn't support proper repeat rates not to mention axes beyond X and Y. I hope this became very clear now. PS: Please rule out other solutions, I've quite checked everything and X is not only the only possible options, it is also the GENERIC and THUS PREFFERED way of managing such a setup. Thanks. [1] http://www.3dconnexion.com/products/spacenavigator.html On 07/26/2010 02:11 PM, Daniel Stone wrote: (Please don't drop the list from CC.) On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 01:04:10PM +0200, Cedric Sodhi wrote: Yes. In more detail: Evdev does not appear to have ANY mention of other axes besides X and Y in its config - which renderes it practically a mouse driver rather than anything HID related. What _exactly_ are you trying to do? ___ xorg-devel@lists.x.org: X.Org development Archives: http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel Info: http://lists.x.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg-devel ___ xorg-devel@lists.x.org: X.Org development Archives: http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel Info: http://lists.x.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg-devel ___ xorg-devel@lists.x.org: X.Org development Archives: http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel Info: http://lists.x.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg-devel
Re: Does XOrg not have any proper HID support at all?
On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 4:30 PM, Cedric Sodhi man...@gmx.net wrote: Ok, in all detail, I would not have neglected to describe the whole situation if I had known that you'd like to hear it - was just trying to keep it short, or, as I usually put it: I was trying to keep it abstract to make it as hard as possible to find a solution. ^^ In my case the application I'm doing this for is The GIMP, but please be reminded that this is just an example and you could take any other application where such problem could occur. So please, even if you know that coming versions of the GIMP solve this or know another, GIMP sepcific solution to this, don't mention it, I'm looking for a generic XOrg specific way which solves this once and for good! Particularily, I want to make a space-navigator device [1] control the view in the GIMP by MAPPING BUTTONS TO AXES, because the GIMP lacks native support to properly map axes to actions. But usually anything interactive such as panning, scrolling, etc requires configuring a specific repeat-rate and of course, the button itsself. EVDev doesn't support proper repeat rates not to mention axes beyond X and Y. I hope this became very clear now. PS: Please rule out other solutions, I've quite checked everything and X is not only the only possible options, it is also the GENERIC and THUS PREFFERED way of managing such a setup. Thanks. [1] http://www.3dconnexion.com/products/spacenavigator.html I don't know about axis but xbinkeys supports mapping mouse buttons to any actions you wish. You can even make it send other input events with xte. http://hanschen.org/2009/10/13/mouse-shortcuts-with-xbindkeys/ On 07/26/2010 02:11 PM, Daniel Stone wrote: (Please don't drop the list from CC.) On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 01:04:10PM +0200, Cedric Sodhi wrote: Yes. In more detail: Evdev does not appear to have ANY mention of other axes besides X and Y in its config - which renderes it practically a mouse driver rather than anything HID related. What _exactly_ are you trying to do? ___ xorg-devel@lists.x.org: X.Org development Archives: http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel Info: http://lists.x.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg-devel ___ xorg-devel@lists.x.org: X.Org development Archives: http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel Info: http://lists.x.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg-devel ___ xorg-devel@lists.x.org: X.Org development Archives: http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel Info: http://lists.x.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg-devel
Re: Does XOrg not have any proper HID support at all?
On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 03:30:33PM +0200, Cedric Sodhi wrote: Ok, in all detail, I would not have neglected to describe the whole situation if I had known that you'd like to hear it - was just trying to keep it short, or, as I usually put it: I was trying to keep it abstract to make it as hard as possible to find a solution. next time, please detail your problem as good as you can instead of letting others guess what you're trying to do. making it as hard as possible to find a solution by supplying no details serves no purpose other than to waste everyone's time. In my case the application I'm doing this for is The GIMP, but please be reminded that this is just an example and you could take any other application where such problem could occur. So please, even if you know that coming versions of the GIMP solve this or know another, GIMP sepcific solution to this, don't mention it, I'm looking for a generic XOrg specific way which solves this once and for good! Particularily, I want to make a space-navigator device [1] control the view in the GIMP by MAPPING BUTTONS TO AXES, because the GIMP lacks native support to properly map axes to actions. But usually anything interactive such as panning, scrolling, etc requires configuring a specific repeat-rate and of course, the button itsself. EVDev doesn't support proper repeat rates not to mention axes beyond X and Y. evdev doesn't support mapping buttons to axis. the half-exception here is the wheel code but that maps axes to buttons, not the other way round. It's possible hook this up though as you mention there will be the need to cater for repeat rates, delta handling, handling for multiple axes with different repeat rates and deltas, and the handling of absolute axes vs. relative axes when mapping to button events. even then, you could only map to buttons, not whatever those buttons will eventually do in the client. so support for this would be quite intrusive. Since I think this is a rather narrow use-case, feel free to submit a patch but please make sure it is as clean as as possible. even then, i'm hesitant to apply this. Cheers, Peter I hope this became very clear now. PS: Please rule out other solutions, I've quite checked everything and X is not only the only possible options, it is also the GENERIC and THUS PREFFERED way of managing such a setup. Thanks. [1] http://www.3dconnexion.com/products/spacenavigator.html On 07/26/2010 02:11 PM, Daniel Stone wrote: (Please don't drop the list from CC.) On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 01:04:10PM +0200, Cedric Sodhi wrote: Yes. In more detail: Evdev does not appear to have ANY mention of other axes besides X and Y in its config - which renderes it practically a mouse driver rather than anything HID related. What _exactly_ are you trying to do? ___ xorg-devel@lists.x.org: X.Org development Archives: http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel Info: http://lists.x.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg-devel
Re: Does XOrg not have any proper HID support at all?
On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 04:23:50PM +0200, Cedric Sodhi wrote: Hello, the device is a SpaceNavigator by 3dconnexion. I think I'll have to revise a big part of what I said: Indeed, the device works with all its axes. That was my mistake. The problem is that the evdev driver does not support any configuration for the addinial axes, nor does it offer as many options as the original mouse driver which doesnt even account for the exinstance of the axes. The evdev driver only supports configuration for an X and a Y axis, which is 2 out of 6 axes. I can't get any of the other axes configured - that's my problem. Please attach your Xorg.log file. evdev does support up to 36 arbitrary axes and the only reason I can explain the lack of the extra axes in your case is if your device mixes relative and absolute axes. Cheers, Peter Again, sorry for the confusion, it have been some weeks since I dropped the issue and only recently I had time to mail to you so I actually forgot part of my own problem. On 07/24/2010 04:00 PM, Greg KH wrote: On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 12:24:05PM +0200, Cedric Sodhi wrote: Hello, this is a serious question and a serious issue, as far I can see. For the last month I've been trying all possible workarrounds an tricks I could possibly imagine to get XOrg accept a 6 Degrees Of Freedom HID compliant Input Device Works for me here, have you not used the evdev driver in xorg? The HID driver is in the kernel, not in xorg, and is not a trivial thing to implement (seriously, have you read the HID spec?) What specifically are you having problems with? What are the errors that you get. thanks, greg k-h ___ ___ xorg-devel@lists.x.org: X.Org development Archives: http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel Info: http://lists.x.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg-devel
Re: Does XOrg not have any proper HID support at all?
Missed to attach reference [1] http://man-wiki.net/index.php/4:evdev On 07/24/2010 12:24 PM, Cedric Sodhi wrote: Hello, this is a serious question and a serious issue, as far I can see. For the last month I've been trying all possible workarrounds an tricks I could possibly imagine to get XOrg accept a 6 Degrees Of Freedom HID compliant Input Device as Input. And after one month I stand, though more frustrated, where I stood before. Not only is there a lack of alternatives to the canonical input drivers mouse and evdev, latter, which I supposedly replacing the mousedrv is furthermore inferiour to the former and, considering the time for which HID is a widely accepted standard, poorly functional. A unindentificable and unverificable man-page which I found online [1] makes claim of far enhanced configuration for evdev but I find no trace of such capabilities anywhere on any distribution. The lack of a GENERIC HID driver, something which is widely implemented by various software (GIMP for example supports HID from a raw input stream from /dev/input out of the box - although with limited configuration) in XOrg is severe! Many devices which are designed HID compliant and are thus supposed to work out-of-the box with any contemporary operating system (not just Windows) do simply not function with X unless there is a specific Driver for the device. If I had the experience with driver programming I'd immediately get to work - it must be trivial with the readily available set of HID libraries, and I think any more experienced programmer could make a half-decent HID driver in notime - although calibration and keymapping would be mandatory - or is XInput too unflexible to handle arbitrary HID input? --MD ___ xorg-devel@lists.x.org: X.Org development Archives: http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel Info: http://lists.x.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg-devel
Does XOrg not have any proper HID support at all?
Hello, this is a serious question and a serious issue, as far I can see. For the last month I've been trying all possible workarrounds an tricks I could possibly imagine to get XOrg accept a 6 Degrees Of Freedom HID compliant Input Device as Input. And after one month I stand, though more frustrated, where I stood before. Not only is there a lack of alternatives to the canonical input drivers mouse and evdev, latter, which I supposedly replacing the mousedrv is furthermore inferiour to the former and, considering the time for which HID is a widely accepted standard, poorly functional. A unindentificable and unverificable man-page which I found online [1] makes claim of far enhanced configuration for evdev but I find no trace of such capabilities anywhere on any distribution. The lack of a GENERIC HID driver, something which is widely implemented by various software (GIMP for example supports HID from a raw input stream from /dev/input out of the box - although with limited configuration) in XOrg is severe! Many devices which are designed HID compliant and are thus supposed to work out-of-the box with any contemporary operating system (not just Windows) do simply not function with X unless there is a specific Driver for the device. If I had the experience with driver programming I'd immediately get to work - it must be trivial with the readily available set of HID libraries, and I think any more experienced programmer could make a half-decent HID driver in notime - although calibration and keymapping would be mandatory - or is XInput too unflexible to handle arbitrary HID input? --MD ___ xorg-devel@lists.x.org: X.Org development Archives: http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel Info: http://lists.x.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg-devel
Re: Does XOrg not have any proper HID support at all?
Hello, the device is a SpaceNavigator by 3dconnexion. I think I'll have to revise a big part of what I said: Indeed, the device works with all its axes. That was my mistake. The problem is that the evdev driver does not support any configuration for the addinial axes, nor does it offer as many options as the original mouse driver which doesnt even account for the exinstance of the axes. The evdev driver only supports configuration for an X and a Y axis, which is 2 out of 6 axes. I can't get any of the other axes configured - that's my problem. Again, sorry for the confusion, it have been some weeks since I dropped the issue and only recently I had time to mail to you so I actually forgot part of my own problem. On 07/24/2010 04:00 PM, Greg KH wrote: On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 12:24:05PM +0200, Cedric Sodhi wrote: Hello, this is a serious question and a serious issue, as far I can see. For the last month I've been trying all possible workarrounds an tricks I could possibly imagine to get XOrg accept a 6 Degrees Of Freedom HID compliant Input Device Works for me here, have you not used the evdev driver in xorg? The HID driver is in the kernel, not in xorg, and is not a trivial thing to implement (seriously, have you read the HID spec?) What specifically are you having problems with? What are the errors that you get. thanks, greg k-h ___ xorg-devel@lists.x.org: X.Org development Archives: http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel Info: http://lists.x.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg-devel ___ xorg-devel@lists.x.org: X.Org development Archives: http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel Info: http://lists.x.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg-devel
Re: Does XOrg not have any proper HID support at all?
Cedric Sodhi wrote: Missed to attach reference [1] http://man-wiki.net/index.php/4:evdev That doesn't seem to be a current man page for evdev. The evdev man page that was current as of last fall's X11R7.5 release is posted at: http://www.x.org/releases/X11R7.5/doc/man/man4/evdev.4.html And of course the copy included in your distro, or if you're using upstream git, the git source itself: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/driver/xf86-input-evdev/tree/man/evdev.man is the best source of information about the version you have. -- -Alan Coopersmith-alan.coopersm...@oracle.com Oracle Solaris Platform Engineering: X Window System ___ xorg-devel@lists.x.org: X.Org development Archives: http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel Info: http://lists.x.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg-devel
