Re: [yocto] [Yocto-Advocacy] Yocto Project Upcoming Conferences and Developer Days

[Behan Webster]

> On May 9, 2019, at 8:38 AM, Rudolf J Streif  wrote:
> 
> Chiming in here
> 
> On 5/7/19 11:18 AM, Behan Webster wrote:
>>> On May 7, 2019, at 2:47 AM, Bas Mevissen >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 2019-05-07 07:20, Behan Webster wrote:
>>> 
 > On May 6, 2019, at 8:36 AM, Bas Mevissen >>> > > wrote:
 > On 5/6/19 12:45 PM, Josef Holzmayr wrote:
 > I'd actually word it a little bit differently:
 > If there is only *ONE* attendee who did not properly do the homework, it
 > will have a massive impact an the rest of the group. And that somebody
 > will show up unpreparedly is absolutely certain in my opinion.
 > With sufficient trainers, one can continue for most and provide some 
 > assistance to the one falling behind.
>>> 
 Usually more than one. And this is generally very disruptive to the class 
 as a whole.
>>> 
> There are always people who are prepared to the T and others who just 
> casually stroll into the class. We all know that as we all went through 
> various stages of schooling. :) No matter what you do, there always will be a 
> glitch. I tried it all from course preparation instructions, shell scripts 
> setting up systems, USB sticks and network drives with downloads and shared 
> state cache, virtual machine images, build systems set up in the cloud, you 
> name it. If it is not somebody who is unprepared it is a technical issue: 
> lack of disk space, network connectivity, corporate computers that do not 
> allow USB sticks,... Instructors just have to deal with it.

And if you have a multiple day class, you can absorb such disruption.

But for single day events you basically have to make sure there is little to no 
wiggle room for failure. And for individual talks, there is almost no room for 
disruption at all during labs.

Assuming pre-class work essentially means there will be massive disruption on 
the day because many/most/all the attendees won’t have done it.

This is why we’ve largely done lecture only beginner talks at YPDD to make sure 
we cover as much material as we can and limit the possibility of in class 
issues.

 >> As someone who actually got started through the YPDD beginner track (and
 >> also often recommends it to new beginners), my opinion is clearly that
 >> we either should have it, be it only for a handful of attendees, or
 >> offer a *real* replacement, with face to face training. My experience is
 >> that this personal thing in the very beginning is an absolutely
 >> essential part of many YP/OE careers.
 >
 > I agree. That is how I started, next to a compressed Linux Foundation 
 > Yocto training that was offered just before the event then.
>>> 
 Yes. By me and my colleagues who train for the Linux Foundation.
>>> 
 > So it might be wise to ask LF or get something organised. It would 
 > mostly require a room and a sponsor for some small devkit.
>>> 
 We've run the beginner track for the last few years. The discussion is 
 precisely that the YP event is proposing to not run the beginner track 
 this year at all.
>>> 
>>> But why? There appears to be a constant demand.
>> 
>> An excellent question. I agree with you. I don’t have an answer however. Not 
>> my decision.
>> 
> I certainly would advocate to have the beginner track. It's a good way of 
> getting people interested, and eventually excited, for the Yocto Project. 
> Conferences and dev days are an opportunity to do advertising and to grow the 
> community. We cannot do that just by catering to people who are already using 
> YP. We need new folks as we are already running into issues where things have 
> to be dropped because there is nobody who is maintaining it.
> 
All agreed.

 We're happy to do it again if given the space.
>>> 
>>> Yes, both for LF and YP it are off-the-shelf trainings that do not require 
>>> much preperation.
>> 
>> Speaking as a course maintainer for LF, keeping the YP course updated is 
>> actually a tremendous amount of work (I’m the co-maintainer for the LF YP 
>> course).
>> 
>> However, the beginner slides tend not to need more than a few hours of 
>> updates every 6 months (which again is something I do).
>> 
>> Either may appear off-the-shelf, but they aren’t from my perspective. ;)
> I can wholeheartedly second that. I developed the original YP class of the LF 
> and taught it many times and have since developed my own class material 
> teaching classes.
> 
And you did a great job!
> While the basic concept of course remains the same it is the little details 
> that change. With every new version of the YP a course maintainer has to go 
> through every single exercise and example in the course material and try it 
> out again to see if it still works. And quite frankly, sometimes it is rather 
> silly things that have changed and break something.
> 
So very true.
> In particular for a beginner class lasting one day only, every 

Re: [yocto] [Yocto-Advocacy] Yocto Project Upcoming Conferences and Developer Days

[Rudolf J Streif]

Chiming in here

On 5/7/19 11:18 AM, Behan Webster wrote:
On May 7, 2019, at 2:47 AM, Bas Mevissen > wrote:


On 2019-05-07 07:20, Behan Webster wrote:

> On May 6, 2019, at 8:36 AM, Bas Mevissen > wrote:

> On 5/6/19 12:45 PM, Josef Holzmayr wrote:
> I'd actually word it a little bit differently:
> If there is only *ONE* attendee who did not properly do the 
homework, it

> will have a massive impact an the rest of the group. And that somebody
> will show up unpreparedly is absolutely certain in my opinion.
> With sufficient trainers, one can continue for most and provide 
some assistance to the one falling behind.


Usually more than one. And this is generally very disruptive to the 
class as a whole.


There are always people who are prepared to the T and others who just 
casually stroll into the class. We all know that as we all went through 
various stages of schooling. :) No matter what you do, there always will 
be a glitch. I tried it all from course preparation instructions, shell 
scripts setting up systems, USB sticks and network drives with downloads 
and shared state cache, virtual machine images, build systems set up in 
the cloud, you name it. If it is not somebody who is unprepared it is a 
technical issue: lack of disk space, network connectivity, corporate 
computers that do not allow USB sticks,... Instructors just have to deal 
with it.
>> As someone who actually got started through the YPDD beginner 
track (and
>> also often recommends it to new beginners), my opinion is clearly 
that

>> we either should have it, be it only for a handful of attendees, or
>> offer a *real* replacement, with face to face training. My 
experience is

>> that this personal thing in the very beginning is an absolutely
>> essential part of many YP/OE careers.
>
> I agree. That is how I started, next to a compressed Linux 
Foundation Yocto training that was offered just before the event then.



Yes. By me and my colleagues who train for the Linux Foundation.


> So it might be wise to ask LF or get something organised. It would 
mostly require a room and a sponsor for some small devkit.


We've run the beginner track for the last few years. The discussion 
is precisely that the YP event is proposing to not run the beginner 
track this year at all.


But why? There appears to be a constant demand.


An excellent question. I agree with you. I don’t have an answer 
however. Not my decision.


I certainly would advocate to have the beginner track. It's a good way 
of getting people interested, and eventually excited, for the Yocto 
Project. Conferences and dev days are an opportunity to do advertising 
and to grow the community. We cannot do that just by catering to people 
who are already using YP. We need new folks as we are already running 
into issues where things have to be dropped because there is nobody who 
is maintaining it.




We're happy to do it again if given the space.


Yes, both for LF and YP it are off-the-shelf trainings that do not 
require much preperation.


Speaking as a course maintainer for LF, keeping the YP course updated 
is actually a tremendous amount of work (I’m the co-maintainer for the 
LF YP course).


However, the beginner slides tend not to need more than a few hours of 
updates every 6 months (which again is something I do).


Either may appear off-the-shelf, but they aren’t from my perspective. ;)


I can wholeheartedly second that. I developed the original YP class of 
the LF and taught it many times and have since developed my own class 
material teaching classes. While the basic concept of course remains the 
same it is the little details that change. With every new version of the 
YP a course maintainer has to go through every single exercise and 
example in the course material and try it out again to see if it still 
works. And quite frankly, sometimes it is rather silly things that have 
changed and break something.


In particular for a beginner class lasting one day only, every single 
disruption sets the class back and there is no opportunity to recover 
from it. The day is already packed just to cover the core concepts.


Cheers,
Rudi




Thanks,

Behan


--
-
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CEO/CTO ibeeto
+1.855.442.3396 x700

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Re: [yocto] [Yocto-Advocacy] Yocto Project Upcoming Conferences and Developer Days

[akuster]

On 5/9/19 12:55 AM, Bas Mevissen wrote:
> On 2019-05-07 20:18, Behan Webster wrote:
>
> (...)
>
>> > Yes, both for LF and YP it are off-the-shelf trainings that do not
>> require much preparation.
>
>> Speaking as a course maintainer for LF, keeping the YP course updated
>> is actually a tremendous amount of work (I'm the co-maintainer for
>> the LF YP course).
>> However, the beginner slides tend not to need more than a few hours
>> of updates every 6 months (which again is something I do).
>> Either may appear off-the-shelf, but they aren't from my perspective. ;)
>
> An additional training date would probably not require much extra I
> assume. As the training is given already a few times a year.
> But it is good to hear the training is kept up to date.
Its not the material, need or willingness of the community to help that
is at issue. Its cost.
The more members we have the more we can do. 

Regards,
Armin
>
>> Thanks,
>
>> Behan
>
> -- Bas.


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Re: [yocto] [Yocto-Advocacy] Yocto Project Upcoming Conferences and Developer Days

[Bas Mevissen]

On 2019-05-07 20:18, Behan Webster wrote:

(...)


> Yes, both for LF and YP it are off-the-shelf trainings that do not require 
much preparation.


Speaking as a course maintainer for LF, keeping the YP course updated 
is actually a tremendous amount of work (I'm the co-maintainer for the 
LF YP course).
However, the beginner slides tend not to need more than a few hours of 
updates every 6 months (which again is something I do).
Either may appear off-the-shelf, but they aren't from my perspective. 
;)


An additional training date would probably not require much extra I 
assume. As the training is given already a few times a year.

But it is good to hear the training is kept up to date.


Thanks,



Behan


-- Bas.
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Re: [yocto] [Yocto-Advocacy] Yocto Project Upcoming Conferences and Developer Days

[Behan Webster]

> On May 7, 2019, at 2:47 AM, Bas Mevissen  wrote:
> 
> On 2019-05-07 07:20, Behan Webster wrote:
> 
>> > On May 6, 2019, at 8:36 AM, Bas Mevissen  wrote:
>> > On 5/6/19 12:45 PM, Josef Holzmayr wrote:
>> > I'd actually word it a little bit differently:
>> > If there is only *ONE* attendee who did not properly do the homework, it
>> > will have a massive impact an the rest of the group. And that somebody
>> > will show up unpreparedly is absolutely certain in my opinion.
>> > With sufficient trainers, one can continue for most and provide some 
>> > assistance to the one falling behind.
> 
>> Usually more than one. And this is generally very disruptive to the class as 
>> a whole.
> 
>> >> As someone who actually got started through the YPDD beginner track (and
>> >> also often recommends it to new beginners), my opinion is clearly that
>> >> we either should have it, be it only for a handful of attendees, or
>> >> offer a *real* replacement, with face to face training. My experience is
>> >> that this personal thing in the very beginning is an absolutely
>> >> essential part of many YP/OE careers.
>> >
>> > I agree. That is how I started, next to a compressed Linux Foundation 
>> > Yocto training that was offered just before the event then.
> 
>> Yes. By me and my colleagues who train for the Linux Foundation.
> 
>> > So it might be wise to ask LF or get something organised. It would mostly 
>> > require a room and a sponsor for some small devkit.
> 
>> We've run the beginner track for the last few years. The discussion is 
>> precisely that the YP event is proposing to not run the beginner track this 
>> year at all.
> 
> But why? There appears to be a constant demand.

An excellent question. I agree with you. I don’t have an answer however. Not my 
decision.

>> We're happy to do it again if given the space.
> 
> Yes, both for LF and YP it are off-the-shelf trainings that do not require 
> much preperation.

Speaking as a course maintainer for LF, keeping the YP course updated is 
actually a tremendous amount of work (I’m the co-maintainer for the LF YP 
course).

However, the beginner slides tend not to need more than a few hours of updates 
every 6 months (which again is something I do).

Either may appear off-the-shelf, but they aren’t from my perspective. ;)

Thanks,

Behan-- 
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Re: [yocto] [Yocto-Advocacy] Yocto Project Upcoming Conferences and Developer Days

[Bas Mevissen]

On 2019-05-07 07:20, Behan Webster wrote:


> On May 6, 2019, at 8:36 AM, Bas Mevissen  wrote:
> On 5/6/19 12:45 PM, Josef Holzmayr wrote:
> I'd actually word it a little bit differently:
> If there is only *ONE* attendee who did not properly do the homework, it
> will have a massive impact an the rest of the group. And that somebody
> will show up unpreparedly is absolutely certain in my opinion.
> With sufficient trainers, one can continue for most and provide some 
assistance to the one falling behind.


Usually more than one. And this is generally very disruptive to the 
class as a whole.



>> As someone who actually got started through the YPDD beginner track (and
>> also often recommends it to new beginners), my opinion is clearly that
>> we either should have it, be it only for a handful of attendees, or
>> offer a *real* replacement, with face to face training. My experience is
>> that this personal thing in the very beginning is an absolutely
>> essential part of many YP/OE careers.
>
> I agree. That is how I started, next to a compressed Linux Foundation Yocto 
training that was offered just before the event then.



Yes. By me and my colleagues who train for the Linux Foundation.



> So it might be wise to ask LF or get something organised. It would mostly 
require a room and a sponsor for some small devkit.


We've run the beginner track for the last few years. The discussion is 
precisely that the YP event is proposing to not run the beginner track 
this year at all.




But why? There appears to be a constant demand.


We're happy to do it again if given the space.


Yes, both for LF and YP it are off-the-shelf trainings that do not 
require much preperation.



Behan



-- Bas.
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Re: [yocto] [Yocto-Advocacy] Yocto Project Upcoming Conferences and Developer Days

[Volosincu, Andreea S]

Good points to keep in mind. I will add them to the agenda for the upcoming 
advocacy call.

Thanks!
Andreea

-Original Message-
From: Josef Holzmayr [mailto:holzm...@rsi-elektrotechnik.de] 
Sent: Monday, May 6, 2019 3:45 AM
To: Behan Webster 
Cc: Volosincu, Andreea S ; Yocto list 
discussion ; yocto-advoc...@yoctoproject.org
Subject: Re: [Yocto-Advocacy] Yocto Project Upcoming Conferences and Developer 
Days

I'd actually word it a little bit differently:

If there is only *ONE* attendee who did not properly do the homework, it will 
have a massive impact an the rest of the group. And that somebody will show up 
unpreparedly is absolutely certain in my opinion.

As someone who actually got started through the YPDD beginner track (and also 
often recommends it to new beginners), my opinion is clearly that we either 
should have it, be it only for a handful of attendees, or offer a *real* 
replacement, with face to face training. My experience is that this personal 
thing in the very beginning is an absolutely essential part of many YP/OE 
careers.

Greetz

On Sun, May 05, 2019 at 04:46:12PM -0700, Behan Webster wrote:
> Just for the record, speaking as a professional trainer, and someone who 
> makes material available before classes in the hopes that people will do 
> “pre-class homework”, almost nobody even glances through any material sent 
> before class. And many people claim to have never received it (for various 
> reasons, but often because it ends up ignored or in spam).
> 
> Essentially I wouldn’t count on anyone actually looking at anything before 
> arriving, because statistically nobody does.
> 
> Behan
> 
> Sent from my Mobile Computer which is also a phone
> 
> > On May 5, 2019, at 2:45 PM, Volosincu, Andreea S 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > That’s correct. We’ll provide previous beginner material as pre-class 
> > homework.
> >  
> > Andreea
> >  
> > From: Behan Webster [mailto:beh...@converseincode.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, May 4, 2019 4:30 AM
> > To: Volosincu, Andreea S 
> > Cc: akuster ; yocto-advoc...@yoctoproject.org; 
> > Yocto list discussion 
> > Subject: Re: [Yocto-Advocacy] Yocto Project Upcoming Conferences and 
> > Developer Days
> >  
> > So does this mean there won’t be a beginner class at all?
> >  
> > Behan
> > 
> > Sent from my Mobile Computer which is also a phone
> > 
> > On May 3, 2019, at 6:01 PM, Volosincu, Andreea S 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > Hi Armin,
> >  
> > Thanks for letting us know. The security summit overlaps with a lot of 
> > things, including the first ELC day.
> >  
> > Hopefully we can make it work by fine-tuning the agenda in such a way that 
> > you attend just the portion of the day that is interesting to you, or you 
> > are presenting.
> >  
> > Let’s talk more during the advocacy call.
> >  
> > Thanks!
> > Andreea
> >  
> > From: akuster [mailto:akus...@mvista.com]
> > Sent: Friday, May 3, 2019 11:07 AM
> > To: Volosincu, Andreea S ; 
> > yocto-advoc...@yoctoproject.org; Yocto list discussion 
> > 
> > Subject: Re: [Yocto-Advocacy] Yocto Project Upcoming Conferences and 
> > Developer Days
> >  
> >  
> > 
> > On 5/3/19 11:01 AM, Volosincu, Andreea S wrote:
> > Greetings,
> >  
> > Yocto Project is pleased to announce the plans for the upcoming Embedded 
> > Linux Conferences in NA and Europe.
> >  
> > Here is a snapshot of our schedule:
> >  
> > ELC NA – Wednesday, August 21 - 23, 2019, Hilton San Diego Bayfront, San 
> > Diego, CA
> >Yocto Project is a sponsor. We’ll see you on the 
> > show floor
> >  
> > ELC NA Dev Day – Tuesday, August 20, 2019 - 8:00AM - 6:00PM
> > Set-up: 1 Meeting Room - Classroom Seating ( 60 people)
> > Level: Intermediate – Advanced. Participants will receive beginner 
> > material (videos and presentations) as pre-requisites
> > Includes: Morning Break, Buffet Lunch, Beer & Wine Reception with 
> > light appetizers So beer is a prerequisite for Intermediate level?
> > 
> > This is a conflict with Linux Security summit unless someone can convince 
> > me to be part of the training?
> > 
> > - armin
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > ELCE – Monday, October 28 -30, 2019, Lyon Convention Centre, Lyon, France
> >   Yocto Project is a sponsor. We’ll see you on the show 
> > floor
> >  
> > ELCE Yocto Project Summit – Dates & Times:
> > Thursday, October 31, 2019 - 8:00AM - 6:00PM
> >November 1, 2019 - 8:00 am - 6:00PM
> > Set-up:
>

Re: [yocto] [Yocto-Advocacy] Yocto Project Upcoming Conferences and Developer Days

[Bas Mevissen]

On 5/6/19 12:45 PM, Josef Holzmayr wrote:

I'd actually word it a little bit differently:

If there is only *ONE* attendee who did not properly do the homework, it
will have a massive impact an the rest of the group. And that somebody
will show up unpreparedly is absolutely certain in my opinion.



With sufficient trainers, one can continue for most and provide some 
assistance to the one falling behind.



As someone who actually got started through the YPDD beginner track (and
also often recommends it to new beginners), my opinion is clearly that
we either should have it, be it only for a handful of attendees, or
offer a *real* replacement, with face to face training. My experience is
that this personal thing in the very beginning is an absolutely
essential part of many YP/OE careers.



I agree. That is how I started, next to a compressed Linux Foundation 
Yocto training that was offered just before the event then.


So it might be wise to ask LF or get something organised. It would 
mostly require a room and a sponsor for some small devkit.




Greetz

On Sun, May 05, 2019 at 04:46:12PM -0700, Behan Webster wrote:

Just for the record, speaking as a professional trainer, and someone who makes 
material available before classes in the hopes that people will do “pre-class 
homework”, almost nobody even glances through any material sent before class. 
And many people claim to have never received it (for various reasons, but often 
because it ends up ignored or in spam).

Essentially I wouldn’t count on anyone actually looking at anything before 
arriving, because statistically nobody does.

Behan

Sent from my Mobile Computer which is also a phone


On May 5, 2019, at 2:45 PM, Volosincu, Andreea S 
 wrote:

That’s correct. We’ll provide previous beginner material as pre-class homework.
  
Andreea
  
From: Behan Webster [mailto:beh...@converseincode.com]

Sent: Saturday, May 4, 2019 4:30 AM
To: Volosincu, Andreea S 
Cc: akuster ; yocto-advoc...@yoctoproject.org; Yocto list 
discussion 
Subject: Re: [Yocto-Advocacy] Yocto Project Upcoming Conferences and Developer 
Days
  
So does this mean there won’t be a beginner class at all?
  
Behan


Sent from my Mobile Computer which is also a phone

On May 3, 2019, at 6:01 PM, Volosincu, Andreea S 
 wrote:

Hi Armin,
  
Thanks for letting us know. The security summit overlaps with a lot of things, including the first ELC day.
  
Hopefully we can make it work by fine-tuning the agenda in such a way that you attend just the portion of the day that is interesting to you, or you are presenting.
  
Let’s talk more during the advocacy call.
  
Thanks!

Andreea
  
From: akuster [mailto:akus...@mvista.com]

Sent: Friday, May 3, 2019 11:07 AM
To: Volosincu, Andreea S ; 
yocto-advoc...@yoctoproject.org; Yocto list discussion 
Subject: Re: [Yocto-Advocacy] Yocto Project Upcoming Conferences and Developer 
Days
  
  


On 5/3/19 11:01 AM, Volosincu, Andreea S wrote:
Greetings,
  
Yocto Project is pleased to announce the plans for the upcoming Embedded Linux Conferences in NA and Europe.
  
Here is a snapshot of our schedule:
  
ELC NA – Wednesday, August 21 - 23, 2019, Hilton San Diego Bayfront, San Diego, CA

Yocto Project is a sponsor. We’ll see you on the show floor
  
ELC NA Dev Day – Tuesday, August 20, 2019 - 8:00AM - 6:00PM

Set-up: 1 Meeting Room - Classroom Seating ( 60 people)
Level: Intermediate – Advanced. Participants will receive beginner material 
(videos and presentations) as pre-requisites
Includes: Morning Break, Buffet Lunch, Beer & Wine Reception with light 
appetizers
So beer is a prerequisite for Intermediate level?

This is a conflict with Linux Security summit unless someone can convince me to 
be part of the training?

- armin



  
ELCE – Monday, October 28 -30, 2019, Lyon Convention Centre, Lyon, France

   Yocto Project is a sponsor. We’ll see you on the show floor
  
ELCE Yocto Project Summit – Dates & Times:

Thursday, October 31, 2019 - 8:00AM - 6:00PM
November 1, 2019 - 8:00 am - 6:00PM
Set-up:
Day 1: 1 Meeting Room - Theater Seating for 100 for Yocto Project talks
Day 2: 2 Meeting Rooms - Mixed Classroom/Theater seating for 60 & Classroom 
seating for 40 (for maintainers and users)
Includes:
Morning Break for 2 days
Buffet Lunch for 2 days
Beer & Wine Reception with light appetizers for 1 day
The goal for the second day of the summit is to build and bring the community 
together. We are interested to hear your opinions and ideas on how that day and 
those rooms should be used for. Please send your ideas to Andreea Volosincu and 
Philip Balister.
  
We will call out an Advocacy meeting in a couple of weeks to go over plans and vote on the ideas for the second day of the summit.
  
Thanks!

Andreea
Yocto Project Advocacy Lead



  
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Re: [yocto] [Yocto-Advocacy] Yocto Project Upcoming Conferences and Developer Days

[Ta, Lieu]

Andreea, Philip and I had a pre-planning call and we all agreed that we want to 
solicit the community for ideas and then finalizing them at an Advocacy 
meeting. We are doing something different this year.  If you do not want to 
send ideas to this wide distribution, please don’t hesitate to send them 
directly to Andreea 
(andreea.volosi...@windriver.com<mailto:andreea.volosi...@windriver.com>).

It takes a lot of hard work to plan, promote, and execute these events, 
especially when the work is all on volunteering basis.  If you can help with 
the planning please also send Andreea a note.

Again, I would like to remind everyone that the CALL to ACTION is to submit 
IDEAS for the upcoming events.  My responses to the criticisms are inline below.


Regards,
Lieu Ta
Advisory Board Chair, Yocto Project

From: yocto-advocacy-boun...@yoctoproject.org 
 On Behalf Of Behan Webster
Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2019 5:08 PM
To: Volosincu, Andreea S 
Cc: Yocto list discussion ; 
yocto-advoc...@yoctoproject.org
Subject: Re: [Yocto-Advocacy] Yocto Project Upcoming Conferences and Developer 
Days

If community building is the plan please don’t exclude OpenEmbedded from the 
name nor the material (in other words, acknowledging which parts are from 
OpenEmbedded). Part of the community building aspect is going to have to be 
acknowledging that Yocto Project is an umbrella project made up of other 
projects, and then celebrating those projects.
[Ta, Lieu] Noted

The original idea I put forward was to have a joint OpenEmbedded/Yocto project 
2-day event to replace the separate ypdd and OEDEM, not merely a larger Yocto 
project event.

I am personally already seeing a negative reaction to these plans from others, 
which is IMHO sadly contributing to destroying community instead of building it.
[Ta, Lieu] I am personally seeing positive reaction that we’re promoting Yocto 
Project and Open Embedded..  We can’t please everyone.  If we want to build 
together, we need to stand together.  Nitpicking and negativity would only 
crack the foundation we’re building on.

I, personally, would like nothing more than a simpler way to describe the whole 
thing. However as it stands we essentially have 2 camps that continue to 
separate instead of coming together. Let’s try and fix that bit first.
[Ta, Lieu] We are two camps if we continue to define ourselves so.

And I surely hope that things other than beer and wine are made available. 
There are actually a lot of attendees who don’t drink from what I can tell, 
which was made extremely evident to me in Edinburgh where the non alcoholic 
options kept on running out and how much alcohol was left at the end of the 
night. Wine and beer isn’t a draw for everyone anymore.
[Ta, Lieu] While I agree that the wine was not a big winner, beers were 
excessively appreciated.  The wines were traded in for beers by popular 
demands.  The beers were practically gone when I left.
However, the idea of adding more soft drinks to the mix, is a good one.

Thanks,

Behan
Sent from my Mobile Computer which is also a phone

On May 3, 2019, at 11:01 AM, Volosincu, Andreea S 
mailto:andreea.volosi...@windriver.com>> wrote:
Greetings,

Yocto Project is pleased to announce the plans for the upcoming Embedded Linux 
Conferences in NA and Europe.

Here is a snapshot of our schedule:

ELC NA – Wednesday, August 21 - 23, 2019, Hilton San Diego Bayfront, San Diego, 
CA
   Yocto Project is a sponsor. We’ll see you on the show floor

ELC NA Dev Day – Tuesday, August 20, 2019 - 8:00AM - 6:00PM
Set-up: 1 Meeting Room - Classroom Seating ( 60 people)
Level: Intermediate – Advanced. Participants will receive beginner material 
(videos and presentations) as pre-requisites
Includes: Morning Break, Buffet Lunch, Beer & Wine Reception with light 
appetizers

ELCE – Monday, October 28 -30, 2019, Lyon Convention Centre, Lyon, France
  Yocto Project is a sponsor. We’ll see you on the show floor

ELCE Yocto Project Summit – Dates & Times:
Thursday, October 31, 2019 - 8:00AM - 6:00PM
   November 1, 2019 - 8:00 am - 6:00PM
Set-up:
Day 1: 1 Meeting Room - Theater Seating for 100 for Yocto Project talks
Day 2: 2 Meeting Rooms - Mixed Classroom/Theater seating for 60 & Classroom 
seating for 40 (for maintainers and users)
Includes:
Morning Break for 2 days
Buffet Lunch for 2 days
Beer & Wine Reception with light appetizers for 1 day
The goal for the second day of the summit is to build and bring the community 
together. We are interested to hear your opinions and ideas on how that day and 
those rooms should be used for. Please send your ideas to Andreea Volosincu and 
Philip Balister.

We will call out an Advocacy meeting in a couple of weeks to go over plans and 
vote on the ideas for the second day of the summit.

Thanks!
Andreea
Yocto Project Advocacy Lead
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Re: [yocto] [Yocto-Advocacy] Yocto Project Upcoming Conferences and Developer Days

[Josef Holzmayr]

Howdy!

On Sun, May 05, 2019 at 05:07:30PM -0700, Behan Webster wrote:
> If community building is the plan please don’t exclude OpenEmbedded from the 
> name nor the material (in other words, acknowledging which parts are from 
> OpenEmbedded). Part of the community building aspect is going to have to be 
> acknowledging that Yocto Project is an umbrella project made up of other 
> projects, and then celebrating those projects.
> 
> The original idea I put forward was to have a joint OpenEmbedded/Yocto 
> project 2-day event to replace the separate ypdd and OEDEM, not merely a 
> larger Yocto project event.
> 
> I am personally already seeing a negative reaction to these plans from 
> others, which is IMHO sadly contributing to destroying community instead of 
> building it.
> 
> I, personally, would like nothing more than a simpler way to describe the 
> whole thing. However as it stands we essentially have 2 camps that continue 
> to separate instead of coming together. Let’s try and fix that bit first.

Completely agreed. I've personally never understood the (until now,
mostly) friendly mutual heckling, but its a thing we have to cope with
and sort out. The sooner, the better.
 
> And I surely hope that things other than beer and wine are made available. 
> There are actually a lot of attendees who don’t drink from what I can tell, 
> which was made extremely evident to me in Edinburgh where the non alcoholic 
> options kept on running out and how much alcohol was left at the end of the 
> night. Wine and beer isn’t a draw for everyone anymore.

Another point I'm just stepping up to fully support. We can run out of
booze - its better if we don't but hey, we absolutely must not run out
of water and coffee.

Greetz

PS: Yes, its actually *ME* writing that.

> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Behan
> 
> Sent from my Mobile Computer which is also a phone
> 
> > On May 3, 2019, at 11:01 AM, Volosincu, Andreea S 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > Greetings,
> >  
> > Yocto Project is pleased to announce the plans for the upcoming Embedded 
> > Linux Conferences in NA and Europe.
> >  
> > Here is a snapshot of our schedule:
> >  
> > ELC NA – Wednesday, August 21 - 23, 2019, Hilton San Diego Bayfront, San 
> > Diego, CA
> >Yocto Project is a sponsor. We’ll see you on the show 
> > floor
> >  
> > ELC NA Dev Day – Tuesday, August 20, 2019 - 8:00AM - 6:00PM
> > Set-up: 1 Meeting Room - Classroom Seating ( 60 people)
> > Level: Intermediate – Advanced. Participants will receive beginner material 
> > (videos and presentations) as pre-requisites
> > Includes: Morning Break, Buffet Lunch, Beer & Wine Reception with light 
> > appetizers
> >  
> > ELCE – Monday, October 28 -30, 2019, Lyon Convention Centre, Lyon, France
> >   Yocto Project is a sponsor. We’ll see you on the show floor
> >  
> > ELCE Yocto Project Summit – Dates & Times:
> > Thursday, October 31, 2019 - 8:00AM - 6:00PM
> >November 1, 2019 - 8:00 am - 6:00PM
> > Set-up:
> > Day 1: 1 Meeting Room - Theater Seating for 100 for Yocto Project talks
> > Day 2: 2 Meeting Rooms - Mixed Classroom/Theater seating for 60 & Classroom 
> > seating for 40 (for maintainers and users)
> > Includes:
> > Morning Break for 2 days
> > Buffet Lunch for 2 days
> > Beer & Wine Reception with light appetizers for 1 day
> > The goal for the second day of the summit is to build and bring the 
> > community together. We are interested to hear your opinions and ideas on 
> > how that day and those rooms should be used for. Please send your ideas to 
> > Andreea Volosincu and Philip Balister.
> >  
> > We will call out an Advocacy meeting in a couple of weeks to go over plans 
> > and vote on the ideas for the second day of the summit.
> >  
> > Thanks!
> > Andreea
> > Yocto Project Advocacy Lead
> > -- 
> > ___
> > yocto-advocacy mailing list
> > yocto-advoc...@yoctoproject.org
> > https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto-advocacy

> -- 
> ___
> yocto-advocacy mailing list
> yocto-advoc...@yoctoproject.org
> https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto-advocacy


-- 
———
Josef Holzmayr
Software Developer Embedded Systems

Tel: +49 8444 9204-48
Fax: +49 8444 9204-50

R-S-I Elektrotechnik GmbH & Co. KG
Woelkestrasse 11
D-85301 Schweitenkirchen
www.rsi-elektrotechnik.de
———
Amtsgericht Ingolstadt – GmbH: HRB 191328 – KG: HRA 170393
Geschäftsführer: Dr.-Ing. Michael Sorg, Dipl.-Ing. Franz Sorg
Ust-IdNr: DE 128592548 

_
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Geschäftsführer: Dr.-Ing. Michael Sorg, Dipl.-Ing. Franz Sorg
USt-IdNr.: DE 128592548

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Re: [yocto] [Yocto-Advocacy] Yocto Project Upcoming Conferences and Developer Days

[Josef Holzmayr]

I'd actually word it a little bit differently:

If there is only *ONE* attendee who did not properly do the homework, it
will have a massive impact an the rest of the group. And that somebody
will show up unpreparedly is absolutely certain in my opinion.

As someone who actually got started through the YPDD beginner track (and
also often recommends it to new beginners), my opinion is clearly that
we either should have it, be it only for a handful of attendees, or
offer a *real* replacement, with face to face training. My experience is
that this personal thing in the very beginning is an absolutely
essential part of many YP/OE careers.

Greetz

On Sun, May 05, 2019 at 04:46:12PM -0700, Behan Webster wrote:
> Just for the record, speaking as a professional trainer, and someone who 
> makes material available before classes in the hopes that people will do 
> “pre-class homework”, almost nobody even glances through any material sent 
> before class. And many people claim to have never received it (for various 
> reasons, but often because it ends up ignored or in spam).
> 
> Essentially I wouldn’t count on anyone actually looking at anything before 
> arriving, because statistically nobody does.
> 
> Behan
> 
> Sent from my Mobile Computer which is also a phone
> 
> > On May 5, 2019, at 2:45 PM, Volosincu, Andreea S 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > That’s correct. We’ll provide previous beginner material as pre-class 
> > homework.
> >  
> > Andreea
> >  
> > From: Behan Webster [mailto:beh...@converseincode.com] 
> > Sent: Saturday, May 4, 2019 4:30 AM
> > To: Volosincu, Andreea S 
> > Cc: akuster ; yocto-advoc...@yoctoproject.org; Yocto 
> > list discussion 
> > Subject: Re: [Yocto-Advocacy] Yocto Project Upcoming Conferences and 
> > Developer Days
> >  
> > So does this mean there won’t be a beginner class at all?
> >  
> > Behan
> > 
> > Sent from my Mobile Computer which is also a phone
> > 
> > On May 3, 2019, at 6:01 PM, Volosincu, Andreea S 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > Hi Armin,
> >  
> > Thanks for letting us know. The security summit overlaps with a lot of 
> > things, including the first ELC day.
> >  
> > Hopefully we can make it work by fine-tuning the agenda in such a way that 
> > you attend just the portion of the day that is interesting to you, or you 
> > are presenting.
> >  
> > Let’s talk more during the advocacy call.
> >  
> > Thanks!
> > Andreea
> >  
> > From: akuster [mailto:akus...@mvista.com] 
> > Sent: Friday, May 3, 2019 11:07 AM
> > To: Volosincu, Andreea S ; 
> > yocto-advoc...@yoctoproject.org; Yocto list discussion 
> > 
> > Subject: Re: [Yocto-Advocacy] Yocto Project Upcoming Conferences and 
> > Developer Days
> >  
> >  
> > 
> > On 5/3/19 11:01 AM, Volosincu, Andreea S wrote:
> > Greetings,
> >  
> > Yocto Project is pleased to announce the plans for the upcoming Embedded 
> > Linux Conferences in NA and Europe.
> >  
> > Here is a snapshot of our schedule:
> >  
> > ELC NA – Wednesday, August 21 - 23, 2019, Hilton San Diego Bayfront, San 
> > Diego, CA
> >Yocto Project is a sponsor. We’ll see you on the show 
> > floor
> >  
> > ELC NA Dev Day – Tuesday, August 20, 2019 - 8:00AM - 6:00PM
> > Set-up: 1 Meeting Room - Classroom Seating ( 60 people)
> > Level: Intermediate – Advanced. Participants will receive beginner material 
> > (videos and presentations) as pre-requisites
> > Includes: Morning Break, Buffet Lunch, Beer & Wine Reception with light 
> > appetizers
> > So beer is a prerequisite for Intermediate level?
> > 
> > This is a conflict with Linux Security summit unless someone can convince 
> > me to be part of the training?
> > 
> > - armin
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > ELCE – Monday, October 28 -30, 2019, Lyon Convention Centre, Lyon, France
> >   Yocto Project is a sponsor. We’ll see you on the show floor
> >  
> > ELCE Yocto Project Summit – Dates & Times:
> > Thursday, October 31, 2019 - 8:00AM - 6:00PM
> >November 1, 2019 - 8:00 am - 6:00PM
> > Set-up:
> > Day 1: 1 Meeting Room - Theater Seating for 100 for Yocto Project talks
> > Day 2: 2 Meeting Rooms - Mixed Classroom/Theater seating for 60 & Classroom 
> > seating for 40 (for maintainers and users)
> > Includes:
> > Morning Break for 2 days
> > Buffet Lunch for 2 days
> > Beer & Wine Reception with light appetizers for 1 day
> > The goal for the second

Re: [yocto] [Yocto-Advocacy] Yocto Project Upcoming Conferences and Developer Days

[Volosincu, Andreea S]

That’s correct. We’ll provide previous beginner material as pre-class homework.

Andreea

From: Behan Webster [mailto:beh...@converseincode.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 4, 2019 4:30 AM
To: Volosincu, Andreea S 
Cc: akuster ; yocto-advoc...@yoctoproject.org; Yocto list 
discussion 
Subject: Re: [Yocto-Advocacy] Yocto Project Upcoming Conferences and Developer 
Days

So does this mean there won’t be a beginner class at all?

Behan
Sent from my Mobile Computer which is also a phone

On May 3, 2019, at 6:01 PM, Volosincu, Andreea S 
mailto:andreea.volosi...@windriver.com>> wrote:
Hi Armin,

Thanks for letting us know. The security summit overlaps with a lot of things, 
including the first ELC day.

Hopefully we can make it work by fine-tuning the agenda in such a way that you 
attend just the portion of the day that is interesting to you, or you are 
presenting.

Let’s talk more during the advocacy call.

Thanks!
Andreea

From: akuster [mailto:akus...@mvista.com]
Sent: Friday, May 3, 2019 11:07 AM
To: Volosincu, Andreea S 
mailto:andreea.volosi...@windriver.com>>; 
yocto-advoc...@yoctoproject.org<mailto:yocto-advoc...@yoctoproject.org>; Yocto 
list discussion mailto:yocto@yoctoproject.org>>
Subject: Re: [Yocto-Advocacy] Yocto Project Upcoming Conferences and Developer 
Days


On 5/3/19 11:01 AM, Volosincu, Andreea S wrote:
Greetings,

Yocto Project is pleased to announce the plans for the upcoming Embedded Linux 
Conferences in NA and Europe.

Here is a snapshot of our schedule:

ELC NA – Wednesday, August 21 - 23, 2019, Hilton San Diego Bayfront, San Diego, 
CA
   Yocto Project is a sponsor. We’ll see you on the show floor

ELC NA Dev Day – Tuesday, August 20, 2019 - 8:00AM - 6:00PM
Set-up: 1 Meeting Room - Classroom Seating ( 60 people)
Level: Intermediate – Advanced. Participants will receive beginner material 
(videos and presentations) as pre-requisites
Includes: Morning Break, Buffet Lunch, Beer & Wine Reception with light 
appetizers
So beer is a prerequisite for Intermediate level?

This is a conflict with Linux Security summit unless someone can convince me to 
be part of the training?

- armin




ELCE – Monday, October 28 -30, 2019, Lyon Convention Centre, Lyon, France
  Yocto Project is a sponsor. We’ll see you on the show floor

ELCE Yocto Project Summit – Dates & Times:
Thursday, October 31, 2019 - 8:00AM - 6:00PM
   November 1, 2019 - 8:00 am - 6:00PM
Set-up:
Day 1: 1 Meeting Room - Theater Seating for 100 for Yocto Project talks
Day 2: 2 Meeting Rooms - Mixed Classroom/Theater seating for 60 & Classroom 
seating for 40 (for maintainers and users)
Includes:
Morning Break for 2 days
Buffet Lunch for 2 days
Beer & Wine Reception with light appetizers for 1 day
The goal for the second day of the summit is to build and bring the community 
together. We are interested to hear your opinions and ideas on how that day and 
those rooms should be used for. Please send your ideas to Andreea Volosincu and 
Philip Balister.

We will call out an Advocacy meeting in a couple of weeks to go over plans and 
vote on the ideas for the second day of the summit.

Thanks!
Andreea
Yocto Project Advocacy Lead




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Re: [yocto] [Yocto-Advocacy] Yocto Project Upcoming Conferences and Developer Days

[Volosincu, Andreea S]

Hi Armin,

Thanks for letting us know. The security summit overlaps with a lot of things, 
including the first ELC day.

Hopefully we can make it work by fine-tuning the agenda in such a way that you 
attend just the portion of the day that is interesting to you, or you are 
presenting.

Let's talk more during the advocacy call.

Thanks!
Andreea

From: akuster [mailto:akus...@mvista.com]
Sent: Friday, May 3, 2019 11:07 AM
To: Volosincu, Andreea S ; 
yocto-advoc...@yoctoproject.org; Yocto list discussion 
Subject: Re: [Yocto-Advocacy] Yocto Project Upcoming Conferences and Developer 
Days


On 5/3/19 11:01 AM, Volosincu, Andreea S wrote:
Greetings,

Yocto Project is pleased to announce the plans for the upcoming Embedded Linux 
Conferences in NA and Europe.

Here is a snapshot of our schedule:

ELC NA - Wednesday, August 21 - 23, 2019, Hilton San Diego Bayfront, San Diego, 
CA
   Yocto Project is a sponsor. We'll see you on the show floor

ELC NA Dev Day - Tuesday, August 20, 2019 - 8:00AM - 6:00PM
Set-up: 1 Meeting Room - Classroom Seating ( 60 people)
Level: Intermediate - Advanced. Participants will receive beginner material 
(videos and presentations) as pre-requisites
Includes: Morning Break, Buffet Lunch, Beer & Wine Reception with light 
appetizers
So beer is a prerequisite for Intermediate level?

This is a conflict with Linux Security summit unless someone can convince me to 
be part of the training?

- armin



ELCE - Monday, October 28 -30, 2019, Lyon Convention Centre, Lyon, France
  Yocto Project is a sponsor. We'll see you on the show floor

ELCE Yocto Project Summit - Dates & Times:
Thursday, October 31, 2019 - 8:00AM - 6:00PM
   November 1, 2019 - 8:00 am - 6:00PM
Set-up:
Day 1: 1 Meeting Room - Theater Seating for 100 for Yocto Project talks
Day 2: 2 Meeting Rooms - Mixed Classroom/Theater seating for 60 & Classroom 
seating for 40 (for maintainers and users)
Includes:
Morning Break for 2 days
Buffet Lunch for 2 days
Beer & Wine Reception with light appetizers for 1 day
The goal for the second day of the summit is to build and bring the community 
together. We are interested to hear your opinions and ideas on how that day and 
those rooms should be used for. Please send your ideas to Andreea Volosincu and 
Philip Balister.

We will call out an Advocacy meeting in a couple of weeks to go over plans and 
vote on the ideas for the second day of the summit.

Thanks!
Andreea
Yocto Project Advocacy Lead



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Re: [yocto] [Yocto-Advocacy] Yocto Project Upcoming Conferences and Developer Days

[akuster]

On 5/3/19 11:01 AM, Volosincu, Andreea S wrote:
>
> Greetings,
>
>  
>
> Yocto Project is pleased to announce the plans for the upcoming
> Embedded Linux Conferences in NA and Europe.
>
>  
>
> Here is a snapshot of our schedule:
>
>  
>
> ELC NA – Wednesday, August 21 - 23, 2019, Hilton San Diego Bayfront,
> San Diego, CA
>
>        Yocto Project is a sponsor. We’ll see you on the
> show floor
>
>  
>
> ELC NA Dev Day – Tuesday, August 20, 2019 - 8:00AM - 6:00PM
>
> Set-up: 1 Meeting Room - Classroom Seating ( 60 people)
>
> Level: Intermediate – Advanced. Participants will receive beginner
> material (videos and presentations) as pre-requisites
>
> Includes: Morning Break, Buffet Lunch, Beer & Wine Reception with
> light appetizers
>
So beer is a prerequisite for Intermediate level?

This is a conflict with Linux Security summit unless someone can
convince me to be part of the training?

- armin

>  
>
> ELCE – Monday, October 28 -30, 2019, Lyon Convention Centre, Lyon, France
>
>   Yocto Project is a sponsor. We’ll see you on the show floor
>
>  
>
> ELCE Yocto Project Summit – Dates & Times:
>
> Thursday, October 31, 2019 - 8:00AM - 6:00PM
>
>    November 1, 2019 - 8:00 am - 6:00PM
>
> Set-up:
>
> Day 1: 1 Meeting Room - Theater Seating for 100 for Yocto Project talks
>
> Day 2: 2 Meeting Rooms - Mixed Classroom/Theater seating for 60 &
> Classroom seating for 40 (for maintainers and users)
>
> Includes:
>
> Morning Break for 2 days
>
> Buffet Lunch for 2 days
>
> Beer & Wine Reception with light appetizers for 1 day
>
> The goal for the second day of the summit is to build and bring the
> community together. We are interested to hear your opinions and ideas
> on how that day and those rooms should be used for. Please send your
> ideas to Andreea Volosincu and Philip Balister.
>
>  
>
> We will call out an Advocacy meeting in a couple of weeks to go over
> plans and vote on the ideas for the second day of the summit.
>
>  
>
> Thanks!
>
> Andreea
>
> Yocto Project Advocacy Lead
>
>

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