Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Takoma Park Maryland has a wonderful parenting community, full of wisdom and quick to help. We even had a group of meditating parents. Thanks, --Chris 301-270-6524 On Jun 26, 2013 9:09 PM, wrote: > ** > > > Chris, this is wonderful. > > Siska > -- > *From: * Chris Austin-Lane > *Sender: * Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > *Date: *Wed, 26 Jun 2013 07:04:22 -0700 > *To: * > *ReplyTo: * Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > *Subject: *Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human > body parts gets a little closer > > > > I ran a neighborhood parenting listserv for some years, a group of people > that can approach the piss and vinegar of zen practitioners. Whenever > arguments broke out too much I would argue for three behaviors: > > Write scrupulously. Assume good will, help rather than judge, and be > aware of people's sensitivity. We are all doing a difficult job (living > in this case, parenting in the other case), and it is easy to trigger > people's sore spots with careless words. > > Read forgivingly. Assume good will, assume even critical sounding > judgements are meant to be helpful. Read remembering that there is no effen > way someone can judge you at all based on email. If someone is all up in > your face, it is their style, not a sign they have some special authority > to judge you. > > Always include a bit of good, humor, koans, or anecdotes, to leaven > whatever potentially judgmental or off-topic words you also are including. > Traffic composition is a matter of balance. Make those busy people happy > they glanced at your words. > > I would add one for the highest volume posters on this list: sometimes > silence is golden. Not answering sometimes speaks volumes. In email chains, > the last to post is the loser :) > > Sometimes saying nothing allows other people to articulate their own > wisdom. > > Thanks, > --Chris > 301-270-6524 > On Jun 26, 2013 9:43 AM, wrote: > >> >> >> Edgar, >> >> I'd say that to be fair and consistent the person who posted these >> comments shown below should also be put on moderation. Anything else would >> be simply hypocritical, wouldn't it? >> >> >> >Boy are you being dense today >> >> >More delusion and ignorance on your part >> >> >Humans are BY FAR the cruelest species, especially those who tend to >> trash animals and spread false ignorant rumors about them >> >> >You are an irrational nut case >> >> Mike >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >> >> -- >> * From: * Edgar Owen ; >> * To: * ; >> * Subject: * Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating >> human body parts gets a little closer >> * Sent: * Wed, Jun 26, 2013 12:55:32 PM >> >> >> >> Bill, >> >> Here is another example of a personal attack with personal name calling. >> I suggest this poster should also be placed on moderation along with Joe. >> >> What do you think? >> >> Edgar >> >> >> >> On Jun 25, 2013, at 11:05 PM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: >> >> >> >> Merle, Edgar, >> >> Do yourselves a favour and educate yourselves on Buddhism before you make >> personal attacks and show yourselves to be ignoramuses. This is from dharma >> net.org and recounts Buddha's parable on being born human. >> >> 1 >> The Preciousness of Human Life Endowed with Freedom and Opportunity >> >> Preciousness of human life >> >> Buddha told a wonderful parable: >> >> Imagine, he said, an old blind turtle who lives in the bottom of the >> seven oceans and who surfaces once every century for air. Floating randomly >> around the seas there's a golden yoke. As often as the blind turtle at the >> bottom of the ocean happens to raise his head through the neck hole of the >> yoke when he comes up for his centenary breath, that's the likelihood of >> being born in the human life-form. >> >> >> >> >> Reflect on how rare your human birth is — for every human, how many >> billions of other life forms there on this earth. You weren't born an >> insect, a sardine. >> >> With such a rare opportunity, you really should appreciate what you have >> right now! >> >> You should reflect how wonderful our life form is of the human >> embodiment, our person. How lucky we are to have it endowed liberty and >> opportunity. >> >> >> >> >> >> What might this mean – “liberty”? What freedoms do you have — just by >> being a human — that you should cherish and take advantage of? >> >> >> >> Imagine you were born a rabbit, a life in which is continual reaction to >> the predator chasing you. Imagine a life as a tiger, running for your own >> food. >> >> If you have trouble with this, ask yourself: "If I were born a canary, I >> would not be able to..." >> >> As a human, you can pause and reflect on what your situation is and then >> use your intelligence to choose a path of action. >> >> >> >> Beyond the freedom which comes from being a human, what other liberties >> are you blessed with? >> >> Chances are if you are taking this lesson, contemplating pra
[Zen] Re: Fw: It was like Shiva dancing in rage
Suresh, I'm sorry, and have to admit, I am lost. I ask your help. The considerations in your transferred post go well beyond my little knowledge of Hindu scripture and tradition. And because I lack the context of the original motivation for your posting, I don't feel enthusiastic to delve deeply into this as a quite independent researcher. Perhaps if you were to summarize your concerns in a paragraph, or two, in simple terms, I might grasp it. Others here, might, too. But to be true to the working conditions of this Forum, I would need to make a connection with Zen, or Zen Buddhism, Ch'an, etc. That might be a "stretch". But regardless, see what you can do to summarize your concern and question BRIEFLY. I might learn something. Thank you! --Joe > varamtha@... wrote: > > Dear Joe, > > Below my mail was not approved by other forum. Am I wrong in my view, please > comment. > > Brgds > Suresh > Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel > > -Original Message- > From: SURESH JAGADEESAN > Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 17:10:59 > To: USA Brhmins > Cc: ; ; ram mohan anantha > pai; Subramanian Balachandran; Barath > Ganesan; iyer123; ; > > Subject: Re: It was like Shiva dancing in rage > > Dear Sri.Aravinda rao, > > Thank you for your mail. > > Dr.R.Krishnan states that People described the scene and compared it to > Rudra thandavam. [snip] Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Posting and Replying Policy - Draft
Hi Bill, Edgar, This policy sounds good. Add Chris' guidelines, and we'd all be back on track. Thanks, Siska -Original Message- From: "Bill!" Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 14:02:02 To: Reply-To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Zen] Posting and Replying Policy - Draft This is the policy Edgar, Al and I have come up with regarding future Posts and Replies. Please review it and return comments preferably publicly or privately if you must to Edgar or me. *** - All posts and replies should have some relevance to the forum's published topic – zen,or related areas such as Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, philosophy, etc..., as long as you tie it back to zen. Digressions will be tolerated to some extent, but any truly off-topic conversations should be taken off the forum to another medium such as email. - No personal attacks will be tolerated – ad hominems. This will be strictly enforced. Calling someone `stupid' and then following that with a smiley face will not be accepted as an amelioration. - Spirited disagreements about ideas or opinions are encouraged. - The Forum Moderators will discuss any problematic Posts or Replies and will issue a warning (privately via email) to anyone they deem to have violated this policy. There is no set number of warnings. The number could range from zero to three or four depending on the severity of the violation as determined by the Moderators. - If the member does continues to violate this policy his/her membership posting privileges will be changed to MODERATE - which means all Posts and Replies will have to be read and approved by the Moderators before it is posted to the Forum. Please return your comments or suggestions promptly so we can enact this policy post haste. Thanks...Bill! ...for Edgar and Al
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Chris, this is wonderful. Siska -Original Message- From: Chris Austin-Lane Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 07:04:22 To: Reply-To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer I ran a neighborhood parenting listserv for some years, a group of people that can approach the piss and vinegar of zen practitioners. Whenever arguments broke out too much I would argue for three behaviors: Write scrupulously. Assume good will, help rather than judge, and be aware of people's sensitivity. We are all doing a difficult job (living in this case, parenting in the other case), and it is easy to trigger people's sore spots with careless words. Read forgivingly. Assume good will, assume even critical sounding judgements are meant to be helpful. Read remembering that there is no effen way someone can judge you at all based on email. If someone is all up in your face, it is their style, not a sign they have some special authority to judge you. Always include a bit of good, humor, koans, or anecdotes, to leaven whatever potentially judgmental or off-topic words you also are including. Traffic composition is a matter of balance. Make those busy people happy they glanced at your words. I would add one for the highest volume posters on this list: sometimes silence is golden. Not answering sometimes speaks volumes. In email chains, the last to post is the loser :) Sometimes saying nothing allows other people to articulate their own wisdom. Thanks, --Chris 301-270-6524 On Jun 26, 2013 9:43 AM, wrote: > > > Edgar, > > I'd say that to be fair and consistent the person who posted these > comments shown below should also be put on moderation. Anything else would > be simply hypocritical, wouldn't it? > > > >Boy are you being dense today > > >More delusion and ignorance on your part > > >Humans are BY FAR the cruelest species, especially those who tend to > trash animals and spread false ignorant rumors about them > > >You are an irrational nut case > > Mike > > > > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > -- > * From: * Edgar Owen ; > * To: * ; > * Subject: * Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating > human body parts gets a little closer > * Sent: * Wed, Jun 26, 2013 12:55:32 PM > > > > Bill, > > Here is another example of a personal attack with personal name calling. I > suggest this poster should also be placed on moderation along with Joe. > > What do you think? > > Edgar > > > > On Jun 25, 2013, at 11:05 PM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: > > > > Merle, Edgar, > > Do yourselves a favour and educate yourselves on Buddhism before you make > personal attacks and show yourselves to be ignoramuses. This is from dharma > net.org and recounts Buddha's parable on being born human. > > 1 > The Preciousness of Human Life Endowed with Freedom and Opportunity > > Preciousness of human life > > Buddha told a wonderful parable: > > Imagine, he said, an old blind turtle who lives in the bottom of the seven > oceans and who surfaces once every century for air. Floating randomly > around the seas there's a golden yoke. As often as the blind turtle at the > bottom of the ocean happens to raise his head through the neck hole of the > yoke when he comes up for his centenary breath, that's the likelihood of > being born in the human life-form. > > > > > Reflect on how rare your human birth is — for every human, how many > billions of other life forms there on this earth. You weren't born an > insect, a sardine. > > With such a rare opportunity, you really should appreciate what you have > right now! > > You should reflect how wonderful our life form is of the human embodiment, > our person. How lucky we are to have it endowed liberty and opportunity. > > > > > > What might this mean – “liberty”? What freedoms do you have — just by > being a human — that you should cherish and take advantage of? > > > > Imagine you were born a rabbit, a life in which is continual reaction to > the predator chasing you. Imagine a life as a tiger, running for your own > food. > > If you have trouble with this, ask yourself: "If I were born a canary, I > would not be able to..." > > As a human, you can pause and reflect on what your situation is and then > use your intelligence to choose a path of action. > > > > Beyond the freedom which comes from being a human, what other liberties > are you blessed with? > > Chances are if you are taking this lesson, contemplating practicing this > path, you enjoy freedoms many other humans do not. > > > > Do you think “I have no time to develop my practice, I have no time to > reflect, to meditate, to be mindful…?" > > Think about all the humans on this earth whose circumstances do not allow > them to study the Dharma, develop a path of emancipation. Chances are if > you are studying the four thoughts that turn the mind, you have the > opportunity to
[Zen] Re: Posting and Replying Policy - Draft
Bill!, Edgar, One of the weak characteristics of the YAHOO! Zen Forum is caused by the excess liberty that some posters take with changing the title of a thread. I see this as an extreme NEGATIVE. It destroys the integrity of a thread, where by "integrity" I do not mean some vague moral advantage, but the integral-completeness and dedication of a topic as begun by the OP (original poster). When the title of a thread keeps changing, so does the topic. This constant morphing invites off-topic posting, because, well, there *IS* no topic, anymore. Could you two Moderators, and Owner, please, in your draft of the policy for behavior on Zen Forum, include some guideline(s) about thread-titles, and please encourage members not to change them. It's my feeling that, once a thread has begun under one title by the OP, it should NEVER be changed. This encourages good and due concentration on the topic of the thread, and helps to eliminate large swings away from the topic, and of Zen, in general. Too many posts are too chatty, and not devoted to ANY thread title, original, or changed. One reason is the willy-nilly changing of thread titles: Leave them alone! Keeping the integrity of a thread also allows the thread to be researched reliably on the Website, where all posts go to enjoy immortality. Not on YAHOO!, but other "board" software makes it more obvious how this virtue of thread integrity is actually valuable: you can see all the thread titles of current activity, and can join or avoid certain ones. And you can be sure the discussion will be on-topic, in any thread. On our Zen Forum, here, it seems that "anything goes", in any thread, because focus is *diffused* by posters obsessively/excessively/incessantly changing the subject, AND changing the thread title. What we get is "mush". Mush in, mush out. This is a major weakness thus far of this board, and a causative origin of some of its wild meanderings, and incivilities. When threads become co-opted by others and thus over-personalized, things become personal, and off-topic. Let posters begin NEW threads if they like, and not sponge-off of concentrated, dedicated ones. I hope you can see a way to discourage the changing of thread titles in the guidelines of any draft- and adopted-Posting/Replying policy. thanks! --Joe > "Bill!" wrote: > > This is the policy Edgar, Al and I have come up with regarding future Posts > and Replies. Please review it and return comments preferably publicly or > privately if you must to Edgar or me. > > *** [snip] Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Re: Posting and Replying Policy - Draft
Pudgala, Thank you for your public support for our new policy and I as a moderator encourage you to post to the group... I also encourage all other lurker members to post also now that they needn't worry about overly harsh responses Best, Edgar On Jun 26, 2013, at 7:10 PM, pudgala2 wrote: > > > Hello Bill!, > > I don't know how your email got through to me but I'm glad it did. It reads > like something I could have written. I am in awe of Zen and enjoy expressing > my understanding of it. I am now reconsidering posting here. > > Thank you, > pudgala2 > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!" wrote: > > > > This is the policy Edgar, Al and I have come up with regarding future Posts > > and Replies. Please review it and return comments preferably publicly or > > privately if you must to Edgar or me. > > > > *** > > > > - All posts and replies should have some relevance to the forum's published > > topic – zen,or related areas such as Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, > > philosophy, etc..., as long as you tie it back to zen. Digressions will be > > tolerated to some extent, but any truly off-topic conversations should be > > taken off the forum to another medium such as email. > > - No personal attacks will be tolerated – ad hominems. This will be > > strictly enforced. Calling someone `stupid' and then following that with a > > smiley face will not be accepted as an amelioration. > > - Spirited disagreements about ideas or opinions are encouraged. > > > > - The Forum Moderators will discuss any problematic Posts or Replies and > > will issue a warning (privately via email) to anyone they deem to have > > violated this policy. There is no set number of warnings. The number could > > range from zero to three or four depending on the severity of the violation > > as determined by the Moderators. > > - If the member does continues to violate this policy his/her membership > > posting privileges will be changed to MODERATE - which means all Posts and > > Replies will have to be read and approved by the Moderators before it is > > posted to the Forum. > > > > > > > > Please return your comments or suggestions promptly so we can enact this > > policy post haste. > > > > Thanks...Bill! ...for Edgar and Al > > > >
Re: [Zen] Re: Posting and Replying Policy - Draft
Joe, Private or public either one fine with me... Edgar On Jun 26, 2013, at 5:15 PM, Joe wrote: > Bill!, Edgar, Group, > > Thanks for airing the draft around and considering comments. > > The draft policy looks good to me. I will follow it or any other finalized > one if implemented. > > I look on such a policy and its respect and enforcement as having the utmost > value. > > On a point of operation, I think a private warning from the moderator(s) on > infractions is better than a public one because a private warning will not > stimulate or instigate online discussion of the infraction. I think it's > enough for the errant poster alone to be informed of having crossed a line or > violated Terms of Service; it's in any case up to the errant poster to either > reform, or to be moderated (or perhaps even sensibly to be banned in an > extreme set of recurring instances). > > I look forward to concentrated discussions, more dedicated upon our topic(s). > > With thanks! for all you do, each and every one, > > --Joe > > > "Bill!" wrote: > > > > Nighty-night all...I'll pick up any comments in the morning and we can get > > this finalized and in place. > > > > Thanks...Bill! > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!" wrote: > > > > > > This is the policy Edgar, Al and I have come up with regarding future > > > Posts and Replies. Please review it and return comments preferably > > > publicly or privately if you must to Edgar or me. > > > > > > *** > [snip] > >
[Zen] Re: Posting and Replying Policy - Draft
Hello Bill!, I don't know how your email got through to me but I'm glad it did. It reads like something I could have written. I am in awe of Zen and enjoy expressing my understanding of it. I am now reconsidering posting here. Thank you, pudgala2 --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!" wrote: > > This is the policy Edgar, Al and I have come up with regarding future Posts > and Replies. Please review it and return comments preferably publicly or > privately if you must to Edgar or me. > > *** > > - All posts and replies should have some relevance to the forum's published > topic zen,or related areas such as Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, > philosophy, etc..., as long as you tie it back to zen. Digressions will be > tolerated to some extent, but any truly off-topic conversations should be > taken off the forum to another medium such as email. > - No personal attacks will be tolerated ad hominems. This will be strictly > enforced. Calling someone `stupid' and then following that with a smiley > face will not be accepted as an amelioration. > - Spirited disagreements about ideas or opinions are encouraged. > > - The Forum Moderators will discuss any problematic Posts or Replies and will > issue a warning (privately via email) to anyone they deem to have violated > this policy. There is no set number of warnings. The number could range > from zero to three or four depending on the severity of the violation as > determined by the Moderators. > - If the member does continues to violate this policy his/her membership > posting privileges will be changed to MODERATE - which means all Posts and > Replies will have to be read and approved by the Moderators before it is > posted to the Forum. > > > > Please return your comments or suggestions promptly so we can enact this > policy post haste. > > Thanks...Bill! ...for Edgar and Al > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Zen] Re: Posting and Replying Policy - Draft
Bill!, Edgar, Group, Thanks for airing the draft around and considering comments. The draft policy looks good to me. I will follow it or any other finalized one if implemented. I look on such a policy and its respect and enforcement as having the utmost value. On a point of operation, I think a private warning from the moderator(s) on infractions is better than a public one because a private warning will not stimulate or instigate online discussion of the infraction. I think it's enough for the errant poster alone to be informed of having crossed a line or violated Terms of Service; it's in any case up to the errant poster to either reform, or to be moderated (or perhaps even sensibly to be banned in an extreme set of recurring instances). I look forward to concentrated discussions, more dedicated upon our topic(s). With thanks! for all you do, each and every one, --Joe > "Bill!" wrote: > > Nighty-night all...I'll pick up any comments in the morning and we can get > this finalized and in place. > > Thanks...Bill! > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!" wrote: > > > > This is the policy Edgar, Al and I have come up with regarding future Posts > > and Replies. Please review it and return comments preferably publicly or > > privately if you must to Edgar or me. > > > > *** [snip] Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Posting and Replying Policy - Draft
Bill!,>Here is another example of a personal attack with personal name calling. I suggest this poster...>I suggest this is a good example of the type of post that...>Here is another personal flame. Don't you agree this warrants MIke...>Here is another example of...Are the words 'unconscionable snitch' now part of the new unacceptable language policy? If they are I won't use them.MikeSent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
Re: [Zen] Posting and Replying Policy - Draft
I agree hearthily But I am the lesser listizen.. With best wishes Lluís - Original Message - From: Bill! To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 4:02 PM Subject: [Zen] Posting and Replying Policy - Draft This is the policy Edgar, Al and I have come up with regarding future Posts and Replies. Please review it and return comments preferably publicly or privately if you must to Edgar or me. *** - All posts and replies should have some relevance to the forum's published topic - zen,or related areas such as Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, philosophy, etc..., as long as you tie it back to zen. Digressions will be tolerated to some extent, but any truly off-topic conversations should be taken off the forum to another medium such as email. - No personal attacks will be tolerated - ad hominems. This will be strictly enforced. Calling someone `stupid' and then following that with a smiley face will not be accepted as an amelioration. - Spirited disagreements about ideas or opinions are encouraged. - The Forum Moderators will discuss any problematic Posts or Replies and will issue a warning (privately via email) to anyone they deem to have violated this policy. There is no set number of warnings. The number could range from zero to three or four depending on the severity of the violation as determined by the Moderators. - If the member does continues to violate this policy his/her membership posting privileges will be changed to MODERATE - which means all Posts and Replies will have to be read and approved by the Moderators before it is posted to the Forum. Please return your comments or suggestions promptly so we can enact this policy post haste. Thanks...Bill! ...for Edgar and Al
[Zen] Fw: It was like Shiva dancing in rage
Dear Joe, Below my mail was not approved by other forum. Am I wrong in my view, please comment. Brgds Suresh Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel -Original Message- From: SURESH JAGADEESAN Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 17:10:59 To: USA Brhmins Cc: ; ; ram mohan anantha pai; Subramanian Balachandran; Barath Ganesan; iyer123; ; Subject: Re: It was like Shiva dancing in rage Dear Sri.Aravinda rao, Thank you for your mail. Dr.R.Krishnan states that People described the scene and compared it to Rudra thandavam. I compare it like that Alla wanted to kill all Hindus, because their belief on idolatry become too much, or the Christ wanted to show Hindu gods are not saviors only him is savior and hence he did this disaster. Is the above statement acceptable? If some Muslims and Christians utter these words, I know what will happen, then it will be bloody war all over India. Why bring religion when some natural disaster happens? If some minister utters some stupid statement that does not mean, learned (vedas) person follow on the same line. When people are suffering don’t try to justify by Karma or God’s leela. He states Ganges gave salvation; does he know what salvation is? Just by mere death by accident does not make one attain salvation? Is it what told in Vedas? Buddha has to do 7 years of meditation. One disciple asked Ramana, “ If I go and dash with a running Bus, thinking of god, will I attain enlightenment?” He says it cannot happen, because in that moment of dashing, fear will take charge, and mind will flow so you will take another birth if died. So stating Ganges gave salvation is also a wrong statement as per the scriptures. “Angry replies are also a waste of time, which we can ill afford as sadhakas.” Why should I be angry with a person whom I never seen? These are the technique to keep the words more powerful, so that my point is reaching heart of other, and who really see the validity of my view. “Your change from a believer to atheist is sad.” Don’t be so sad, No god does not mean atheist. Who is Buddha? Theist or Atheist? He is neither theist nor atheist. Neutral. I am also neutral. God is all, hence the word is not required to use separately. Suppose Sky is blue and everywhere there is blue. And some one come and say Blue is god, will any one look for Blue god? Where can they look? The looker himself is blue. So instead of Blue, you tell any other colour, we can look for. In Hinduism the word ‘God’ means a form, which has all power within (Omnipotent) and he on praying him will give all desired. Now those who gone to Kedharnath and Badrinath may have desired mokasha, some have desired wealth, some have desired health and some have desired education, is that they received. In case I go to Nadi Jyothish, and he will tell some stories that I have done papa karma in the past life, for that if I go to Kedaharnath and worship, my papa will be washed off, and there after I live happily ever. So on hearing if I go to Kedharnath, there I will die with my family by starving. (Small news clips – sadhus in Kedharnath and Badhrinath, looting money & jewels from dead and injured. And some sadhus rapes women. Are these Sadhus? Who claims Aham Brahmasmi) Hence I beg that for heaven sake doesn’t tell the stories that god comes and helps or saves. If you say follow eight fold path you will be enlightened or one with this universe, then I will believe and make attempt to follow eight fold path ( Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right Livelihood, Right effort, Right mindfulness, Right concentration ) We the Hindus, thus thrown our responsibility to some unknown god, but people like Udayashanker unconsciously claims that he is god and he will preach all others as god. So we gods need not to do anything sit tight, all welfare of human beings happens by magic is it? If you and me are god, then only there is more responsibility to change this world a better living place. If you have noticed those who are enlightened 99.999% of people come out and teach how to live in this world thus to make this world better place for living. The real god (enlightened ones) beliefs in action, hence teaches to lead a better life. But we the ego looking for magical power to help, or remain lazy and blame it on Karma. “I humbly suggest to you to read the Bhashyams of Shankara (if possible in the original) and also listen to some eminent Swamis like Dayananda, Paramarthananda, who know both Sanskrit and vedanta thoroughly” By doing so as you mentioned, what is expected out of me? Is it to accept Sri.Udyashanker? I have Vivakachoodamani and Updesa shasri of Shankara and reading it. And Sri.Udyashanker may be parroting the same, but what is the use? Is it expected of you that me (after thoroughly reading) and Sri.Udyashanker to go and preach what is read by us from the Shankara philosophy of those who affected in Uttarrakhand? Or preach to the Army and Air force soldiers, “ don’t go and help, all is
[Zen] moderation
Dear Edgar & Bill, moderators, Chan is ALL, which means all attachments, delusions, angers are part of Chan. We learn and wake up from them. These are our home work. These are part of our everyday practice. The sixth Patriarch said, "Dharma is in the secular world. Buddha is enlightened inside the secular world." Instead of moderation, may I suggest [tagging]. When anyone is lost in form, and the five poisons or the discrimination mind arises, you tag them with [labels] in the subject line. This way everyone can learn and be awakened from them. With palms together, JM Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Posting and Replying Policy - Draft
Problem with public warnings is that it raises the bar - most people are much more embarrassed by a public scolding than by a private one. And then moderators might be more likely to not apply easy early correction waiting instead for later hard corrections. Not my decision of course, just speaking as one that hates to be reprimanded in public. Thanks, --Chris 301-270-6524 On Jun 26, 2013 10:45 AM, "Edgar Owen" wrote: > Bill, > > I agree except that I think in the interests of transparency all > 'warnings' should be issued publicly on group. That also lets all members > see the policy in action instead of having it being done in secret by the > moderators... > > Edgar > > > > On Jun 26, 2013, at 10:02 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > This is the policy Edgar, Al and I have come up with regarding future > Posts and Replies. Please review it and return comments preferably > publicly or privately if you must to Edgar or me. > > > > *** > > > > - All posts and replies should have some relevance to the forum's > published topic – zen,or related areas such as Buddhism, Hinduism, > Christianity, philosophy, etc..., as long as you tie it back to zen. > Digressions will be tolerated to some extent, but any truly off-topic > conversations should be taken off the forum to another medium such as email. > > - No personal attacks will be tolerated – ad hominems. This will be > strictly enforced. Calling someone `stupid' and then following that with a > smiley face will not be accepted as an amelioration. > > - Spirited disagreements about ideas or opinions are encouraged. > > > > - The Forum Moderators will discuss any problematic Posts or Replies and > will issue a warning (privately via email) to anyone they deem to have > violated this policy. There is no set number of warnings. The number > could range from zero to three or four depending on the severity of the > violation as determined by the Moderators. > > - If the member does continues to violate this policy his/her membership > posting privileges will be changed to MODERATE - which means all Posts and > Replies will have to be read and approved by the Moderators before it is > posted to the Forum. > > > > > > > > Please return your comments or suggestions promptly so we can enact this > policy post haste. > > > > Thanks...Bill! ...for Edgar and Al > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are > reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >
Re: [Zen] Posting and Replying Policy - Draft
Bill, I agree except that I think in the interests of transparency all 'warnings' should be issued publicly on group. That also lets all members see the policy in action instead of having it being done in secret by the moderators... Edgar On Jun 26, 2013, at 10:02 AM, Bill! wrote: > This is the policy Edgar, Al and I have come up with regarding future Posts > and Replies. Please review it and return comments preferably publicly or > privately if you must to Edgar or me. > > *** > > - All posts and replies should have some relevance to the forum's published > topic – zen,or related areas such as Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, > philosophy, etc..., as long as you tie it back to zen. Digressions will be > tolerated to some extent, but any truly off-topic conversations should be > taken off the forum to another medium such as email. > - No personal attacks will be tolerated – ad hominems. This will be strictly > enforced. Calling someone `stupid' and then following that with a smiley > face will not be accepted as an amelioration. > - Spirited disagreements about ideas or opinions are encouraged. > > - The Forum Moderators will discuss any problematic Posts or Replies and will > issue a warning (privately via email) to anyone they deem to have violated > this policy. There is no set number of warnings. The number could range > from zero to three or four depending on the severity of the violation as > determined by the Moderators. > - If the member does continues to violate this policy his/her membership > posting privileges will be changed to MODERATE - which means all Posts and > Replies will have to be read and approved by the Moderators before it is > posted to the Forum. > > > > Please return your comments or suggestions promptly so we can enact this > policy post haste. > > Thanks...Bill! ...for Edgar and Al > > > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Justice with Michael Sandel - Online Harvard Course Exploring Justice, Equality, Democracy, and Citizenship
Bill, You just posted a policy statement and I agreed to it so isn't it already posted and ready to be implemented? Edgar On Jun 26, 2013, at 9:33 AM, Bill! wrote: > Yes, kind of. > > This was a follow-on post from a previous comment from Merle about reducing > her participation in the Forum in favor of some online course at Harvard. > Again, we can cover things like this in the policy statement. > > ...Bill! > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen wrote: > > > > Bill, > > > > Here is another post among many that has nothing to do with Zen at all. > > > > Don't you agree these should be minimized at the very least? > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > On Jun 25, 2013, at 11:36 PM, Merle Lester wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.justiceharvard.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
RE: [Zen] Re: Posting and Replying Policy - Draft
Great. But who moderates the moderators?...Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
[Zen] Re: Posting and Replying Policy - Draft
Nighty-night all...I'll pick up any comments in the morning and we can get this finalized and in place. Thanks...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!" wrote: > > This is the policy Edgar, Al and I have come up with regarding future Posts > and Replies. Please review it and return comments preferably publicly or > privately if you must to Edgar or me. > > *** > > - All posts and replies should have some relevance to the forum's published > topic zen,or related areas such as Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, > philosophy, etc..., as long as you tie it back to zen. Digressions will be > tolerated to some extent, but any truly off-topic conversations should be > taken off the forum to another medium such as email. > - No personal attacks will be tolerated ad hominems. This will be strictly > enforced. Calling someone `stupid' and then following that with a smiley > face will not be accepted as an amelioration. > - Spirited disagreements about ideas or opinions are encouraged. > > - The Forum Moderators will discuss any problematic Posts or Replies and will > issue a warning (privately via email) to anyone they deem to have violated > this policy. There is no set number of warnings. The number could range > from zero to three or four depending on the severity of the violation as > determined by the Moderators. > - If the member does continues to violate this policy his/her membership > posting privileges will be changed to MODERATE - which means all Posts and > Replies will have to be read and approved by the Moderators before it is > posted to the Forum. > > > > Please return your comments or suggestions promptly so we can enact this > policy post haste. > > Thanks...Bill! ...for Edgar and Al > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
I ran a neighborhood parenting listserv for some years, a group of people that can approach the piss and vinegar of zen practitioners. Whenever arguments broke out too much I would argue for three behaviors: Write scrupulously. Assume good will, help rather than judge, and be aware of people's sensitivity. We are all doing a difficult job (living in this case, parenting in the other case), and it is easy to trigger people's sore spots with careless words. Read forgivingly. Assume good will, assume even critical sounding judgements are meant to be helpful. Read remembering that there is no effen way someone can judge you at all based on email. If someone is all up in your face, it is their style, not a sign they have some special authority to judge you. Always include a bit of good, humor, koans, or anecdotes, to leaven whatever potentially judgmental or off-topic words you also are including. Traffic composition is a matter of balance. Make those busy people happy they glanced at your words. I would add one for the highest volume posters on this list: sometimes silence is golden. Not answering sometimes speaks volumes. In email chains, the last to post is the loser :) Sometimes saying nothing allows other people to articulate their own wisdom. Thanks, --Chris 301-270-6524 On Jun 26, 2013 9:43 AM, wrote: > > > Edgar, > > I'd say that to be fair and consistent the person who posted these > comments shown below should also be put on moderation. Anything else would > be simply hypocritical, wouldn't it? > > > >Boy are you being dense today > > >More delusion and ignorance on your part > > >Humans are BY FAR the cruelest species, especially those who tend to > trash animals and spread false ignorant rumors about them > > >You are an irrational nut case > > Mike > > > > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > -- > * From: * Edgar Owen ; > * To: * ; > * Subject: * Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating > human body parts gets a little closer > * Sent: * Wed, Jun 26, 2013 12:55:32 PM > > > > Bill, > > Here is another example of a personal attack with personal name calling. I > suggest this poster should also be placed on moderation along with Joe. > > What do you think? > > Edgar > > > > On Jun 25, 2013, at 11:05 PM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: > > > > Merle, Edgar, > > Do yourselves a favour and educate yourselves on Buddhism before you make > personal attacks and show yourselves to be ignoramuses. This is from dharma > net.org and recounts Buddha's parable on being born human. > > 1 > The Preciousness of Human Life Endowed with Freedom and Opportunity > > Preciousness of human life > > Buddha told a wonderful parable: > > Imagine, he said, an old blind turtle who lives in the bottom of the seven > oceans and who surfaces once every century for air. Floating randomly > around the seas there's a golden yoke. As often as the blind turtle at the > bottom of the ocean happens to raise his head through the neck hole of the > yoke when he comes up for his centenary breath, that's the likelihood of > being born in the human life-form. > > > > > Reflect on how rare your human birth is — for every human, how many > billions of other life forms there on this earth. You weren't born an > insect, a sardine. > > With such a rare opportunity, you really should appreciate what you have > right now! > > You should reflect how wonderful our life form is of the human embodiment, > our person. How lucky we are to have it endowed liberty and opportunity. > > > > > > What might this mean – “liberty”? What freedoms do you have — just by > being a human — that you should cherish and take advantage of? > > > > Imagine you were born a rabbit, a life in which is continual reaction to > the predator chasing you. Imagine a life as a tiger, running for your own > food. > > If you have trouble with this, ask yourself: "If I were born a canary, I > would not be able to..." > > As a human, you can pause and reflect on what your situation is and then > use your intelligence to choose a path of action. > > > > Beyond the freedom which comes from being a human, what other liberties > are you blessed with? > > Chances are if you are taking this lesson, contemplating practicing this > path, you enjoy freedoms many other humans do not. > > > > Do you think “I have no time to develop my practice, I have no time to > reflect, to meditate, to be mindful…?" > > Think about all the humans on this earth whose circumstances do not allow > them to study the Dharma, develop a path of emancipation. Chances are if > you are studying the four thoughts that turn the mind, you have the > opportunity to practice them. > > Think of all the humans who lack this opportunity, people who are > destitute, people enslaved economically, people enslaved politically, > people who spend every moment of their lives and all their energies on > survival. Spend some time and really appreciate the freedom and op
[Zen] Posting and Replying Policy - Draft
This is the policy Edgar, Al and I have come up with regarding future Posts and Replies. Please review it and return comments preferably publicly or privately if you must to Edgar or me. *** - All posts and replies should have some relevance to the forum's published topic zen,or related areas such as Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, philosophy, etc..., as long as you tie it back to zen. Digressions will be tolerated to some extent, but any truly off-topic conversations should be taken off the forum to another medium such as email. - No personal attacks will be tolerated ad hominems. This will be strictly enforced. Calling someone `stupid' and then following that with a smiley face will not be accepted as an amelioration. - Spirited disagreements about ideas or opinions are encouraged. - The Forum Moderators will discuss any problematic Posts or Replies and will issue a warning (privately via email) to anyone they deem to have violated this policy. There is no set number of warnings. The number could range from zero to three or four depending on the severity of the violation as determined by the Moderators. - If the member does continues to violate this policy his/her membership posting privileges will be changed to MODERATE - which means all Posts and Replies will have to be read and approved by the Moderators before it is posted to the Forum. Please return your comments or suggestions promptly so we can enact this policy post haste. Thanks...Bill! ...for Edgar and Al Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Edgar,I'd say that to be fair and consistent the person who posted these comments shown below should also be put on moderation. Anything else would be simply hypocritical, wouldn't it?>Boy are you being dense today>More delusion and ignorance on your part>Humans are BY FAR the cruelest species, especially those who tend to trash animals and spread false ignorant rumors about them>You are an irrational nut caseMikeSent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Edgar, Yes, but we haven't issued the policy statement yet. If you'd stop posting examples I could get it typed up and posted more quickly. Chill out a little...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen wrote: > > Bill, > > Here is another personal flame. Don't you agree this warrants MIke being put > on moderation according to the guidelines you suggested and I agreed to? > > Edgar > > > > On Jun 25, 2013, at 10:56 PM, uerusuboyo@... wrote: > > > Edgar, > > > > You bloody hypocrite! Three or four days ago I wrote a post casually > > mentioning that I see being human in less negative terms than Merle's more > > negative, cynical take. I mentioned that this is not just my opinion, but > > STANDARD BUDDHIST DOCTRINE that we are lucky to be born human so as to be > > exposed to the Dharma. What has followed from you and Merle not only shows > > both your utter ignorance of Buddhism, but also the most snide and low-brow > > attacks I've ever received on this forum (a member for close to 10 years). > > "Get real", "moronic", "delusional", "animal-trashing", "dense" are just a > > few examples. > > > > Merle, I'm beginning to suspect you have no real sincere desire to learn > > anything about Buddhism or Zen in particular. Who can forget your > > "Bullshit! Bullshit! Bullshit!" when informed there is no belief in a soul > > in Buddhism and your rant against Zen's 'no mind' as meaning you'd be > > "brain dead" without a mind? Talk about 'shoot the messenger'! And then you > > have the bare-faced cheek and audacity to claim one of my points as your > > own and ask if I "get it now?" (What it is to be truly human if one follows > > a spiritual path - when all you've done is rant about despising humans). > > How duplicitous! My post about being lucky to be born human is the same. IT > > IS WHAT BUDDHA TAUGHT. Do *you* "get it" now?? > > > > Edgar, Say what you like to me insult wise. I'm a big boy and as you can > > see I'll give more in return that hat I received, BUT to think you can > > insult and make snide remarks and then hide behind a smiley face is plain > > cowardice. And then to come on here and bleat about personal attacks and > > cleaning up the forum is simply nauseating. When it comes to Buddhism and > > Zen, you and Merle are dilettantes at best and trolls at worst. There, go > > moderate that... ; ) > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > > > From: Edgar Owen ; > > To: ; > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body > > parts gets a little closer > > Sent: Wed, Jun 26, 2013 12:42:39 AM > > > > > > All, > > > > > > I'm tempted, with Bill's assent, to put everyone on moderation and only > > allow posts that are really about Zen through and only those with no > > personal insults or flames... > > > > The group has greatly deteriorated recently and lost much of its direction > > and relevance... That seems to be why none of the many lurking members are > > posting and many are leaving... > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > On Jun 25, 2013, at 7:55 PM, Joe wrote: > > > >> > >> Edgar, > >> > >> OK. Email me them privately, then. ;-) > >> > >> But do let me know if people complain, or have complained against my > >> posts, specifically. If they have, or do, I may be able to adjust my > >> tuning. > >> > >> Else, ban me, Bill!, and you. No regrets between friends. > >> > >> --Joe > >> > >> > Edgar Owen wrote: > >> > > >> > Joe, > >> > > >> > You should know I can't give you their names without their permission. > >> > That would be unethical... > >> > > >> > Edgar > >> > > > > > > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Justice with Michael Sandel - Online Harvard Course Exploring Justice, Equality, Democracy, and Citizenship
Yes, kind of. This was a follow-on post from a previous comment from Merle about reducing her participation in the Forum in favor of some online course at Harvard. Again, we can cover things like this in the policy statement. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen wrote: > > Bill, > > Here is another post among many that has nothing to do with Zen at all. > > Don't you agree these should be minimized at the very least? > > Edgar > > > > On Jun 25, 2013, at 11:36 PM, Merle Lester wrote: > > > > > > > > > http://www.justiceharvard.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Re: Body surfing as practice
Thanks, --Chris 301-270-6524 On Jun 26, 2013 2:32 AM, wrote: > > > > Chris, > > > >I try not to speak well of myself or poorly of others, no matter how much their idiocy seems to call >out for mocking insults. > > Slipping it in thru the back door (not *that* back door!). Nice. I meant for that to be a description of my own judgmental mind, not attachable to a specific poster here. I have judged almost all of the active posters as right on and no way in various writings. I am a guy that reads certain posts and rolls my blind eyes at the persistent patterns from the specks in my friends eyed. > > Mike > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > > From: Chris Austin-Lane ; > To: ; > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Body surfing as practice > Sent: Wed, Jun 26, 2013 4:54:14 AM > > > > This post was my response to you and Merle asking for more personal stuff from me, and the overwhelming clear parallel between passing waves and passing moments. Except maybe for the bit when the wave has crashed and I am lying in 4 inches of water, thrilled by life. > > I try not to speak well of myself or poorly of others, no matter how much their idiocy seems to call out for mocking insults. > > Thanks, > --Chris > 301-270-6524 > > On Jun 25, 2013 9:55 PM, "Bill!" wrote: >> >> Chris, >> >> Nice analogy, but you didn't insult anyone in it. >> >> Are you sure you're posting this on the right forum? >> >> ...Bill! >> >> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Chris Austin-Lane wrote: >> > >> > It has been a year since I jumped in the waves, so I stand in the water a >> > newbie, unacquainted with the ebb and flow. There is no controlling the >> > water, merely seeing clearly and responding appropriately. >> > >> > Waves roll ceaselessly-sometimes my eager mind wants me to jump in front of >> > a wave before the wave has arrived. Sometimes my regretful mind wants me >> > to jump after a wave already gone. Sometimes, I wait and jump with the >> > wave, caught up into the swirling process of breaking on the shore, pushed >> > along into the shore, not caring or worrying for a thing just knowing the >> > exultant motion of life: balanced between air and water, rolling along, >> > held tenderly in the center, the wave and rider are flung together with >> > sand and foam and shells and motion and seaweed and friction and light . . >> > eventually I emerge, the wave gone, and stand up and drain the water from >> > my sinuses and nose and eyes, establishing some idea of inside and outside, >> > and walk to the waves. >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> > > >
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Edgar, Yes, another example but another that has a history. I suggest we do what we discussed with Al (the forum owner) and first post a policy, issue warnings and then enforce Moderation if necessary. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen wrote: > > Bill, > > Here is another example of a personal attack with personal name calling. I > suggest this poster should also be placed on moderation along with Joe. > > What do you think? > > Edgar > > > > On Jun 25, 2013, at 11:05 PM, uerusuboyo@... wrote: > > > Merle, Edgar, > > > > Do yourselves a favour and educate yourselves on Buddhism before you make > > personal attacks and show yourselves to be ignoramuses. This is from dharma > > net.org and recounts Buddha's parable on being born human. > > > > 1 > > The Preciousness of Human Life Endowed with Freedom and Opportunity > > > > Preciousness of human life > > > > Buddha told a wonderful parable: > > > > Imagine, he said, an old blind turtle who lives in the bottom of the seven > > oceans and who surfaces once every century for air. Floating randomly > > around the seas there's a golden yoke. As often as the blind turtle at the > > bottom of the ocean happens to raise his head through the neck hole of the > > yoke when he comes up for his centenary breath, that's the likelihood of > > being born in the human life-form. > > > > > > > > > > Reflect on how rare your human birth is for every human, how many > > billions of other life forms there on this earth. You weren't born an > > insect, a sardine. > > > > With such a rare opportunity, you really should appreciate what you have > > right now! > > > > You should reflect how wonderful our life form is of the human embodiment, > > our person. How lucky we are to have it endowed liberty and opportunity. > > > > > > > > > > > > What might this mean "liberty"? What freedoms do you have just by being > > a human that you should cherish and take advantage of? > > > > > > > > Imagine you were born a rabbit, a life in which is continual reaction to > > the predator chasing you. Imagine a life as a tiger, running for your own > > food. > > > > If you have trouble with this, ask yourself: "If I were born a canary, I > > would not be able to..." > > > > As a human, you can pause and reflect on what your situation is and then > > use your intelligence to choose a path of action. > > > > > > > > Beyond the freedom which comes from being a human, what other liberties are > > you blessed with? > > > > Chances are if you are taking this lesson, contemplating practicing this > > path, you enjoy freedoms many other humans do not. > > > > > > > > Do you think "I have no time to develop my practice, I have no time to > > reflect, to meditate, to be mindful ?" > > > > Think about all the humans on this earth whose circumstances do not allow > > them to study the Dharma, develop a path of emancipation. Chances are if > > you are studying the four thoughts that turn the mind, you have the > > opportunity to practice them. > > > > Think of all the humans who lack this opportunity, people who are > > destitute, people enslaved economically, people enslaved politically, > > people who spend every moment of their lives and all their energies on > > survival. Spend some time and really appreciate the freedom and opportunity > > you are blessed with. Do you have enough to eat each day? Are you free from > > the fear of being displaced at any moment? Do you spend every moment of > > your life surviving, or do you have time read, meditate, take an Ashoka > > course? > > > > Now reflect on the rarity of being in a place and time where teachings and > > teachers are available to you from which you can choose a path that's right > > for you, that you can follow in the "free" time you have. > > > > Your precious opportunity also includes access to the teaching of freedom > > and enlightenment. > > > > > > > > > > > > Even with a precious human life, and even with a life that allows the > > opportunity of time to practice and reflect, reflect on how precious it is > > to have access to the teachings on personal transformation. Only a > > generation ago think how rare the opportunity to be exposed to the Dharma > > was, how few teachers were accessible, how few resources like Ashoka were > > available. > > > > Reflect on the rarity of being in a place and time where teachings and > > teachers are available to you from which you can choose a path that's right > > for you, that you can follow in the "free" time you have. > > > > > > > > > > Reflect on the preciousness of the qualities within you because you are a > > human: > > > > You have a mind that is capable of developing wisdom and compassion. You > > have a mind that that can distinguish right from wrong, a mind that can > > distinguish between that which causes suffering and should be abandoned and > > that which bring
Re: [Zen]
I also am uncomfortable with people on the forum judging each other, as Joe apparently is doing here. Thanks, --Chris 301-270-6524 On Jun 26, 2013 8:53 AM, "Edgar Owen" wrote: > > > Bill, > > I suggest this is a good example of the type of post that should be > moderated as it includes several personal attacks, in fact the entire > subject of this post is a personal attack. What do you think? > > Edgar > > > > On Jun 25, 2013, at 11:11 PM, Joe wrote: > > > > Edgar, Bill!, > > quoting the Weasel: > "What do you think of my idea below to focus the group... " > > As if it was HIS idea! LOL! > > It would not be a year too soon, since I became active again (following my > sign-up and activity at this very Forum in its initiatory year, 1999). > > Some Zen forums are, in general, quite, well, "focused". Hail! To them. > > There's good "reason" for ...that. > > Granted, Edgar is squirming, now, because he is uncomfortable with our > insinuating upon his fakery and ignorance, which, previously, he thought he > could hide, via his casual, anything-goes-as-"Zen", insouciance. Some of us > know better, ...but only by experience. It's a different "knowing", eh, > Bill! ? > > Moderate (verb) and censor posts as you must / will, > > and TNX!, overall, > > --Joe > > PS I'll bow out, when a majority of active (and actually intelligent) > Members recommend me to be Transported to Vulture Peak, for my flesh to be > pecked by Avians. Like Merle's country-men, in the day, for Legal reasons, > "Transported". All Hail. > > > Edgar Owen wrote: > > > > Bill, > > > > What do you think of my idea below to focus the group back on just Zen > rather than it being the general venting and gossip forum as it seems to > have become recently? > > > > > > > >
Re: [Zen]
Edgar, I agree that Joe's post below is an example of a personal attack, however it did not just materialize out of thin air. I see it as just a continuation of previous, similar attacks. It's my expectation if we nip these in the bud we'll be able to avoid full blown attack posts. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen wrote: > > Bill, > > I suggest this is a good example of the type of post that should be moderated > as it includes several personal attacks, in fact the entire subject of this > post is a personal attack. What do you think? > > Edgar > > > > On Jun 25, 2013, at 11:11 PM, Joe wrote: > > > Edgar, Bill!, > > > > quoting the Weasel: > > "What do you think of my idea below to focus the group... " > > > > As if it was HIS idea! LOL! > > > > It would not be a year too soon, since I became active again (following my > > sign-up and activity at this very Forum in its initiatory year, 1999). > > > > Some Zen forums are, in general, quite, well, "focused". Hail! To them. > > > > There's good "reason" for ...that. > > > > Granted, Edgar is squirming, now, because he is uncomfortable with our > > insinuating upon his fakery and ignorance, which, previously, he thought he > > could hide, via his casual, anything-goes-as-"Zen", insouciance. Some of us > > know better, ...but only by experience. It's a different "knowing", eh, > > Bill! ? > > > > Moderate (verb) and censor posts as you must / will, > > > > and TNX!, overall, > > > > --Joe > > > > PS I'll bow out, when a majority of active (and actually intelligent) > > Members recommend me to be Transported to Vulture Peak, for my flesh to be > > pecked by Avians. Like Merle's country-men, in the day, for Legal reasons, > > "Transported". All Hail. > > > > > Edgar Owen wrote: > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > What do you think of my idea below to focus the group back on just Zen > > > rather than it being the general venting and gossip forum as it seems to > > > have become recently? > > > > > > > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] for mike
Bill, Here is another example of unnecessary non-Zen stuff that just clogs the group... EDgar On Jun 25, 2013, at 11:59 PM, Joe wrote: > Merle, > > Yay-yuh. Or, NO? > > Unread it; unread it; unread it. > > Reset. > > Reboot. > > Boot this. > > Boot that. > > All's OK, now. ??? > > Yes? > > Welcome,... > > Who ARE you?, > > --J. > > > uerusuboyo@... wrote: > > > > Merle, I'd suggest *you* reread the letter, and ponder it in relation to > > yourself, and then get back to me. > >
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Bill, Here is another personal flame. Don't you agree this warrants MIke being put on moderation according to the guidelines you suggested and I agreed to? Edgar On Jun 25, 2013, at 10:56 PM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: > Edgar, > > You bloody hypocrite! Three or four days ago I wrote a post casually > mentioning that I see being human in less negative terms than Merle's more > negative, cynical take. I mentioned that this is not just my opinion, but > STANDARD BUDDHIST DOCTRINE that we are lucky to be born human so as to be > exposed to the Dharma. What has followed from you and Merle not only shows > both your utter ignorance of Buddhism, but also the most snide and low-brow > attacks I've ever received on this forum (a member for close to 10 years). > "Get real", "moronic", "delusional", "animal-trashing", "dense" are just a > few examples. > > Merle, I'm beginning to suspect you have no real sincere desire to learn > anything about Buddhism or Zen in particular. Who can forget your "Bullshit! > Bullshit! Bullshit!" when informed there is no belief in a soul in Buddhism > and your rant against Zen's 'no mind' as meaning you'd be "brain dead" > without a mind? Talk about 'shoot the messenger'! And then you have the > bare-faced cheek and audacity to claim one of my points as your own and ask > if I "get it now?" (What it is to be truly human if one follows a spiritual > path - when all you've done is rant about despising humans). How duplicitous! > My post about being lucky to be born human is the same. IT IS WHAT BUDDHA > TAUGHT. Do *you* "get it" now?? > > Edgar, Say what you like to me insult wise. I'm a big boy and as you can see > I'll give more in return that hat I received, BUT to think you can insult and > make snide remarks and then hide behind a smiley face is plain cowardice. And > then to come on here and bleat about personal attacks and cleaning up the > forum is simply nauseating. When it comes to Buddhism and Zen, you and Merle > are dilettantes at best and trolls at worst. There, go moderate that... ; ) > > Mike > > > > > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > From: Edgar Owen ; > To: ; > Subject: Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body > parts gets a little closer > Sent: Wed, Jun 26, 2013 12:42:39 AM > > > All, > > > I'm tempted, with Bill's assent, to put everyone on moderation and only allow > posts that are really about Zen through and only those with no personal > insults or flames... > > The group has greatly deteriorated recently and lost much of its direction > and relevance... That seems to be why none of the many lurking members are > posting and many are leaving... > > Edgar > > > > On Jun 25, 2013, at 7:55 PM, Joe wrote: > >> >> Edgar, >> >> OK. Email me them privately, then. ;-) >> >> But do let me know if people complain, or have complained against my posts, >> specifically. If they have, or do, I may be able to adjust my tuning. >> >> Else, ban me, Bill!, and you. No regrets between friends. >> >> --Joe >> >> > Edgar Owen wrote: >> > >> > Joe, >> > >> > You should know I can't give you their names without their permission. >> > That would be unethical... >> > >> > Edgar >> > > >
Re: [Zen] Justice with Michael Sandel - Online Harvard Course Exploring Justice, Equality, Democracy, and Citizenship
Bill, Here is another post among many that has nothing to do with Zen at all. Don't you agree these should be minimized at the very least? Edgar On Jun 25, 2013, at 11:36 PM, Merle Lester wrote: > > > > http://www.justiceharvard.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Bill, Here is another example of a personal attack with personal name calling. I suggest this poster should also be placed on moderation along with Joe. What do you think? Edgar On Jun 25, 2013, at 11:05 PM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: > Merle, Edgar, > > Do yourselves a favour and educate yourselves on Buddhism before you make > personal attacks and show yourselves to be ignoramuses. This is from dharma > net.org and recounts Buddha's parable on being born human. > > 1 > The Preciousness of Human Life Endowed with Freedom and Opportunity > > Preciousness of human life > > Buddha told a wonderful parable: > > Imagine, he said, an old blind turtle who lives in the bottom of the seven > oceans and who surfaces once every century for air. Floating randomly around > the seas there's a golden yoke. As often as the blind turtle at the bottom of > the ocean happens to raise his head through the neck hole of the yoke when he > comes up for his centenary breath, that's the likelihood of being born in the > human life-form. > > > > > Reflect on how rare your human birth is — for every human, how many billions > of other life forms there on this earth. You weren't born an insect, a > sardine. > > With such a rare opportunity, you really should appreciate what you have > right now! > > You should reflect how wonderful our life form is of the human embodiment, > our person. How lucky we are to have it endowed liberty and opportunity. > > > > > > What might this mean – “liberty”? What freedoms do you have — just by being a > human — that you should cherish and take advantage of? > > > > Imagine you were born a rabbit, a life in which is continual reaction to the > predator chasing you. Imagine a life as a tiger, running for your own food. > > If you have trouble with this, ask yourself: "If I were born a canary, I > would not be able to..." > > As a human, you can pause and reflect on what your situation is and then use > your intelligence to choose a path of action. > > > > Beyond the freedom which comes from being a human, what other liberties are > you blessed with? > > Chances are if you are taking this lesson, contemplating practicing this > path, you enjoy freedoms many other humans do not. > > > > Do you think “I have no time to develop my practice, I have no time to > reflect, to meditate, to be mindful…?" > > Think about all the humans on this earth whose circumstances do not allow > them to study the Dharma, develop a path of emancipation. Chances are if you > are studying the four thoughts that turn the mind, you have the opportunity > to practice them. > > Think of all the humans who lack this opportunity, people who are destitute, > people enslaved economically, people enslaved politically, people who spend > every moment of their lives and all their energies on survival. Spend some > time and really appreciate the freedom and opportunity you are blessed with. > Do you have enough to eat each day? Are you free from the fear of being > displaced at any moment? Do you spend every moment of your life surviving, or > do you have time read, meditate, take an Ashoka course? > > Now reflect on the rarity of being in a place and time where teachings and > teachers are available to you from which you can choose a path that's right > for you, that you can follow in the "free" time you have. > > Your precious opportunity also includes access to the teaching of freedom and > enlightenment. > > > > > > Even with a precious human life, and even with a life that allows the > opportunity of time to practice and reflect, reflect on how precious it is to > have access to the teachings on personal transformation. Only a generation > ago think how rare the opportunity to be exposed to the Dharma was, how few > teachers were accessible, how few resources like Ashoka were available. > > Reflect on the rarity of being in a place and time where teachings and > teachers are available to you from which you can choose a path that's right > for you, that you can follow in the "free" time you have. > > > > > Reflect on the preciousness of the qualities within you because you are a > human: > > You have a mind that is capable of developing wisdom and compassion. You have > a mind that that can distinguish right from wrong, a mind that can > distinguish between that which causes suffering and should be abandoned and > that which brings happiness and should be nourished. > > True freedom > In many societies there's no notion of liberation or self-illumination or > education, merely training for life as a hunter or a warrior or a computer > programmer. The real teaching of freedom is very rare. While materialistic > cultures have ideas like the pursuit of happiness, the fight for freedom, and > the land of liberty, real liberty is completely inconceivable to us. > > The most important of the famous noble truths taught by the Buddha is the
Re: [Zen]
Bill, I suggest this is a good example of the type of post that should be moderated as it includes several personal attacks, in fact the entire subject of this post is a personal attack. What do you think? Edgar On Jun 25, 2013, at 11:11 PM, Joe wrote: > Edgar, Bill!, > > quoting the Weasel: > "What do you think of my idea below to focus the group... " > > As if it was HIS idea! LOL! > > It would not be a year too soon, since I became active again (following my > sign-up and activity at this very Forum in its initiatory year, 1999). > > Some Zen forums are, in general, quite, well, "focused". Hail! To them. > > There's good "reason" for ...that. > > Granted, Edgar is squirming, now, because he is uncomfortable with our > insinuating upon his fakery and ignorance, which, previously, he thought he > could hide, via his casual, anything-goes-as-"Zen", insouciance. Some of us > know better, ...but only by experience. It's a different "knowing", eh, Bill! > ? > > Moderate (verb) and censor posts as you must / will, > > and TNX!, overall, > > --Joe > > PS I'll bow out, when a majority of active (and actually intelligent) Members > recommend me to be Transported to Vulture Peak, for my flesh to be pecked by > Avians. Like Merle's country-men, in the day, for Legal reasons, > "Transported". All Hail. > > > Edgar Owen wrote: > > > > Bill, > > > > What do you think of my idea below to focus the group back on just Zen > > rather than it being the general venting and gossip forum as it seems to > > have become recently? > > > >
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Bill, Agreed. And as I've done I suggest it all be public on group between us for the sake of transparency and openness. I agree that only ideas are fair game for disagreements and attacks not people. No personal insults should be allowed. The other thing that bugs me personally is the huge number of posts that are just gossip and venting and have nothing to do with Zen. I wouldn't mind a few but over the last weeks I've had to weed through more posts to our little dinky Zen group than all the other emails both personal and from other groups I'm on combined! I think there were over a hundred just yesterday. And the great majority had nothing to do with Zen at all. Can we please refrain ourselves from just babbling on and on and on about anything? I would specifically direct that request to Joe and Merle who are by far the worst offenders... Count the number of posts by Merle and Joe. It's really excessive and most have little or nothing to do with Zen. Edgar On Jun 25, 2013, at 10:30 PM, Bill! wrote: > Edgar, > > I'm not completely opposed to it, but only as a last resort. > > I suggest we try: > > 1. Notice - post some guidelines (again). > 2. Warning - warn people whose post we think are getting out-of-line. > 3. Moderate - after a certain number of warnings or a particular egregious > breach of guidelines put the member on Moderation. (That means all posts are > held until one of the Moderators approve it.) > > How does that sound? > > ...Bill! > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen wrote: > > > > Bill, > > > > What do you think of this idea below to try to focus the group back on just > > Zen instead of it being a general venting and gossip forum? > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > On Jun 25, 2013, at 8:42 PM, Edgar Owen wrote: > > > > > All, > > > > > > > > > I'm tempted, with Bill's assent, to put everyone on moderation and only > > > allow posts that are really about Zen through and only those with no > > > personal insults or flames... > > > > > > The group has greatly deteriorated recently and lost much of its > > > direction and relevance... That seems to be why none of the many lurking > > > members are posting and many are leaving... > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 25, 2013, at 7:55 PM, Joe wrote: > > > > > >> > > >> Edgar, > > >> > > >> OK. Email me them privately, then. ;-) > > >> > > >> But do let me know if people complain, or have complained against my > > >> posts, specifically. If they have, or do, I may be able to adjust my > > >> tuning. > > >> > > >> Else, ban me, Bill!, and you. No regrets between friends. > > >> > > >> --Joe > > >> > > >> > Edgar Owen wrote: > > >> > > > >> > Joe, > > >> > > > >> > You should know I can't give you their names without their permission. > > >> > That would be unethical... > > >> > > > >> > Edgar > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Re: [Zen] the chosen ones
Joe,Good one! Reminds me...'Sitting on this last train's seat - how the scenery and time flows, but the bladder does not (hopefully!)'. - True proverbMike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
Re: [Zen] the chosen ones
Mike, Good show! No "attempt": a fine, done deal! New York - Philly, train How the cars, and I, do flow; Ninety miles, to go! --Joe > uerusuboyo@... wrote: > > Joe, Here's my East meets West attempt: Last train kept rollin' Bladder full, back teeth floatin' This rice wine evening. Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] the chosen ones
Joe,Here's my East meets West attempt:Last train kept rollin'Bladder full, back teeth floatin'This rice wine evening.MikeSent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
