Re: [zeromq-dev] FOSDEM 2018 - ZeroMQ gathering/hackaton?

[Luca Boccassi]

On Tue, 2017-08-29 at 11:18 +0100, Luca Boccassi wrote:
> On Tue, 2017-08-29 at 11:53 +0200, Benjamin Henrion wrote:
> > On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 11:50 AM, Luca Boccassi  > l.
> > com> wrote:
> > > On Tue, 2017-08-29 at 09:49 +0200, Benjamin Henrion wrote:
> > > > On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 7:20 PM, Luca Boccassi  > > > ma
> > > > il.c
> > > > om> wrote:
> > > > > Hello,
> > > > > 
> > > > > FOSDEM 2018 dates have been announced, it will be on Saturday
> > > > > 3rd
> > > > > and
> > > > > Sunday 4th of February. [1]
> > > > > 
> > > > > Would people be interested in replicating last year's 2-days
> > > > > ZMQ
> > > > > gathering/hackaton before FOSDEM?
> > > > > 
> > > > > Benjamin, would the hacker space we were at be available
> > > > > again?
> > > > 
> > > > Yes, same recipe as last year.
> > > > 
> > > > --
> > > > Benjamin Henrion 
> > > > FFII Brussels - +32-484-566109 - +32-2-3500762
> > > > "In July 2005, after several failed attempts to legalise
> > > > software
> > > > patents in Europe, the patent establishment changed its
> > > > strategy.
> > > > Instead of explicitly seeking to sanction the patentability of
> > > > software, they are now seeking to create a central European
> > > > patent
> > > > court, which would establish and enforce patentability rules in
> > > > their
> > > > favor, without any possibility of correction by competing
> > > > courts
> > > > or
> > > > democratically elected legislators."
> > > 
> > > Great!
> > > 
> > > Should we book the space or something like that?
> > > 
> > > I'll create an event page on the wiki in a moment and then send
> > > the
> > > link
> > 
> > Yes, it should appear on the frontpage in the list of events, you
> > have
> > to create a wikipage placeholder like last year with a link to the
> > zeromq wiki.
> > 
> > You would need ipv6 though to create and edit pages on hsbxl wiki.
> > 
> > Best,
> > 
> > --
> > Benjamin Henrion 
> > FFII Brussels - +32-484-566109 - +32-2-3500762
> > "In July 2005, after several failed attempts to legalise software
> > patents in Europe, the patent establishment changed its strategy.
> > Instead of explicitly seeking to sanction the patentability of
> > software, they are now seeking to create a central European patent
> > court, which would establish and enforce patentability rules in
> > their
> > favor, without any possibility of correction by competing courts or
> > democratically elected legislators."
> 
> http://zeromq.org/event:zeromq-pre-fosdem-hackaton-thu-1-fri-2-feb-20
> 18
> 
> Later today I'll create the page on the hsbxl wiki - no IPv6 at work
> (quite embarrassing for a networking company...)

Benjamin,

I've created the page on the wiki, could you please double check that I
did it right when you have a moment?

https://hsbxl.be/ZeroMQ_Pre-Fosdem_Hackaton_2018

Thanks!

-- 
Kind regards,
Luca Boccassi

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Re: [zeromq-dev] Rare feature combination possible?

[Peter Krey]

Have you tried to build zmq with the NORM protocol? Sounds like that will
give you almost what you need.

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 11:36 AM, Patrik VV.  wrote:

> Just my 5 cents: AFAIK the RADIO/DISH sockets are the newer, thread-safe
> sockets, which don't support multi part messages (ZMQ_SNDMORE option is not
> accepted).
>
> On 29 Aug 2017, at 14:35, Stephan Opfer  wrote:
>
> >> Note that multi-part does _not_ imply contiguous memory location on the
> >> receive end (it might happen but there's no guarantee anywhere). So if
> >> that's a requirement for your use case, then you need to use a single
> >> message anyway.
> >
> > No on the receiving site I think that I'll need to accept to copy the
> data anyway.
> > --
> > Distributed Systems Research Group
> > Stephan Opfer  T. +49 561 804-6280  F. +49 561 804-6277
> > Univ. Kassel,  FB 16,  Wilhelmshöher Allee 73,  D-34121 Kassel
> > WWW: http://www.uni-kassel.de/go/vs_stephan-opfer/
> > ___
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> > https://lists.zeromq.org/mailman/listinfo/zeromq-dev
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Re: [zeromq-dev] Rare feature combination possible?

[Patrik VV.]

Just my 5 cents: AFAIK the RADIO/DISH sockets are the newer, thread-safe 
sockets, which don't support multi part messages (ZMQ_SNDMORE option is not 
accepted). 

On 29 Aug 2017, at 14:35, Stephan Opfer  wrote:

>> Note that multi-part does _not_ imply contiguous memory location on the
>> receive end (it might happen but there's no guarantee anywhere). So if
>> that's a requirement for your use case, then you need to use a single
>> message anyway.
> 
> No on the receiving site I think that I'll need to accept to copy the data 
> anyway.
> -- 
> Distributed Systems Research Group
> Stephan Opfer  T. +49 561 804-6280  F. +49 561 804-6277
> Univ. Kassel,  FB 16,  Wilhelmshöher Allee 73,  D-34121 Kassel
> WWW: http://www.uni-kassel.de/go/vs_stephan-opfer/
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Re: [zeromq-dev] Rare feature combination possible?

[Stephan Opfer]

Note that multi-part does _not_ imply contiguous memory location on the
receive end (it might happen but there's no guarantee anywhere). So if
that's a requirement for your use case, then you need to use a single
message anyway.


No on the receiving site I think that I'll need to accept to copy the data 
anyway.
--
Distributed Systems Research Group
Stephan Opfer  T. +49 561 804-6280  F. +49 561 804-6277
Univ. Kassel,  FB 16,  Wilhelmshöher Allee 73,  D-34121 Kassel
WWW: http://www.uni-kassel.de/go/vs_stephan-opfer/
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Re: [zeromq-dev] Rare feature combination possible?

[Luca Boccassi]

On Tue, 2017-08-29 at 12:38 +0200, Stephan Opfer wrote:
> Hi Luca,
> 
> the reason for me to use multi-part messages is, that I have the
> content of a message already in memory, but not in one continues
> memory sequence. So if I want to achieve zero-copy, I need to compose
> the message from several memory locations, that should not be copied.
> 
> When I understand you right, I just need to send several messages
> (one for each memory location)?
> 
> I think, that this would break my attempt to use Cap'n Proto
> (de)serialization. At least it could be tricky to recompose the Cap'n
> Proto message on the receiving side.
> 
> My current workflow contained the following step:
> 
> 1. Compose the Cap'n Proto message by let the message pointing to the
> different parts / memory locations.
> 
> 2. Send the different parts of the Cap'n Proto message as multi-part
> message via ZMQ + UDP + Multicast.
> 
> 3. Receive the Multi-Part message and reconstruct a Cap'n Proto
> message from it.
> 
> Instead step 3. now would need to receive several messages (incl.
> handling missing messages) in order to recreate the Cap'n Proto
> message.
> 
> My think that zero-copy isn't worth the hassle, in that case. So
> instead I tend to copy everything into one continuous memory sequence
> and send it as one message, which would just mean that I can compose
> the Cap'n Proto message without taking care of zero-copy.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> Greetings,
>    Stephan

Note that multi-part does _not_ imply contiguous memory location on the
receive end (it might happen but there's no guarantee anywhere). So if
that's a requirement for your use case, then you need to use a single
message anyway.

-- 
Kind regards,
Luca Boccassi

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Re: [zeromq-dev] Rare feature combination possible?

[Stephan Opfer]

Hi Luca,

the reason for me to use multi-part messages is, that I have the content of a 
message already in memory, but not in one continues memory sequence. So if I 
want to achieve zero-copy, I need to compose the message from several memory 
locations, that should not be copied.

When I understand you right, I just need to send several messages (one for each 
memory location)?

I think, that this would break my attempt to use Cap'n Proto (de)serialization. 
At least it could be tricky to recompose the Cap'n Proto message on the 
receiving side.

My current workflow contained the following step:

1. Compose the Cap'n Proto message by let the message pointing to the different 
parts / memory locations.

2. Send the different parts of the Cap'n Proto message as multi-part message 
via ZMQ + UDP + Multicast.

3. Receive the Multi-Part message and reconstruct a Cap'n Proto message from it.

Instead step 3. now would need to receive several messages (incl. handling 
missing messages) in order to recreate the Cap'n Proto message.

My think that zero-copy isn't worth the hassle, in that case. So instead I tend 
to copy everything into one continuous memory sequence and send it as one 
message, which would just mean that I can compose the Cap'n Proto message 
without taking care of zero-copy.

Any thoughts?

Greetings,
  Stephan



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Stephan Opfer  T. +49 561 804-6280  F. +49 561 804-6277
Univ. Kassel,  FB 16,  Wilhelmshöher Allee 73,  D-34121 Kassel
WWW: http://www.uni-kassel.de/go/vs_stephan-opfer/
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Re: [zeromq-dev] FOSDEM 2018 - ZeroMQ gathering/hackaton?

[Luca Boccassi]

On Sun, 2017-08-27 at 18:20 +0100, Luca Boccassi wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> FOSDEM 2018 dates have been announced, it will be on Saturday 3rd and
> Sunday 4th of February. [1]
> 
> Would people be interested in replicating last year's 2-days ZMQ
> gathering/hackaton before FOSDEM?
> 
> Benjamin, would the hacker space we were at be available again?
> 
> Kind regards,
> Luca Boccassi
> 
> [1] https://fosdem.org/2018/

ZeroMQ wiki page event:

http://zeromq.org/event:zeromq-pre-fosdem-hackaton-thu-1-fri-2-feb-2018

Please sign up!

Note that we had to lock down the wiki account creation since it was
being overwhelmed and vandalised by spammers. If you don't have an
account, create one and reply here, I'll approve it manually.

-- 
Kind regards,
Luca Boccassi

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Re: [zeromq-dev] FOSDEM 2018 - ZeroMQ gathering/hackaton?

[Luca Boccassi]

On Tue, 2017-08-29 at 11:53 +0200, Benjamin Henrion wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 11:50 AM, Luca Boccassi  com> wrote:
> > On Tue, 2017-08-29 at 09:49 +0200, Benjamin Henrion wrote:
> > > On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 7:20 PM, Luca Boccassi  > > il.c
> > > om> wrote:
> > > > Hello,
> > > > 
> > > > FOSDEM 2018 dates have been announced, it will be on Saturday
> > > > 3rd
> > > > and
> > > > Sunday 4th of February. [1]
> > > > 
> > > > Would people be interested in replicating last year's 2-days
> > > > ZMQ
> > > > gathering/hackaton before FOSDEM?
> > > > 
> > > > Benjamin, would the hacker space we were at be available again?
> > > 
> > > Yes, same recipe as last year.
> > > 
> > > --
> > > Benjamin Henrion 
> > > FFII Brussels - +32-484-566109 - +32-2-3500762
> > > "In July 2005, after several failed attempts to legalise software
> > > patents in Europe, the patent establishment changed its strategy.
> > > Instead of explicitly seeking to sanction the patentability of
> > > software, they are now seeking to create a central European
> > > patent
> > > court, which would establish and enforce patentability rules in
> > > their
> > > favor, without any possibility of correction by competing courts
> > > or
> > > democratically elected legislators."
> > 
> > Great!
> > 
> > Should we book the space or something like that?
> > 
> > I'll create an event page on the wiki in a moment and then send the
> > link
> 
> Yes, it should appear on the frontpage in the list of events, you
> have
> to create a wikipage placeholder like last year with a link to the
> zeromq wiki.
> 
> You would need ipv6 though to create and edit pages on hsbxl wiki.
> 
> Best,
> 
> --
> Benjamin Henrion 
> FFII Brussels - +32-484-566109 - +32-2-3500762
> "In July 2005, after several failed attempts to legalise software
> patents in Europe, the patent establishment changed its strategy.
> Instead of explicitly seeking to sanction the patentability of
> software, they are now seeking to create a central European patent
> court, which would establish and enforce patentability rules in their
> favor, without any possibility of correction by competing courts or
> democratically elected legislators."

http://zeromq.org/event:zeromq-pre-fosdem-hackaton-thu-1-fri-2-feb-2018

Later today I'll create the page on the hsbxl wiki - no IPv6 at work
(quite embarrassing for a networking company...)

-- 
Kind regards,
Luca Boccassi

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Re: [zeromq-dev] FOSDEM 2018 - ZeroMQ gathering/hackaton?

[Michal Vyskocil]

Hi,

Yes would like to see you again

Dne 29. 8. 2017 9:53 odpoledne napsal uživatel "Benjamin Henrion" <
zoo...@gmail.com>:

> On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 11:50 AM, Luca Boccassi 
> wrote:
> > On Tue, 2017-08-29 at 09:49 +0200, Benjamin Henrion wrote:
> >> On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 7:20 PM, Luca Boccassi  >> om> wrote:
> >> > Hello,
> >> >
> >> > FOSDEM 2018 dates have been announced, it will be on Saturday 3rd
> >> > and
> >> > Sunday 4th of February. [1]
> >> >
> >> > Would people be interested in replicating last year's 2-days ZMQ
> >> > gathering/hackaton before FOSDEM?
> >> >
> >> > Benjamin, would the hacker space we were at be available again?
> >>
> >> Yes, same recipe as last year.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Benjamin Henrion 
> >> FFII Brussels - +32-484-566109 - +32-2-3500762
> >> "In July 2005, after several failed attempts to legalise software
> >> patents in Europe, the patent establishment changed its strategy.
> >> Instead of explicitly seeking to sanction the patentability of
> >> software, they are now seeking to create a central European patent
> >> court, which would establish and enforce patentability rules in their
> >> favor, without any possibility of correction by competing courts or
> >> democratically elected legislators."
> >
> > Great!
> >
> > Should we book the space or something like that?
> >
> > I'll create an event page on the wiki in a moment and then send the
> > link
>
> Yes, it should appear on the frontpage in the list of events, you have
> to create a wikipage placeholder like last year with a link to the
> zeromq wiki.
>
> You would need ipv6 though to create and edit pages on hsbxl wiki.
>
> Best,
>
> --
> Benjamin Henrion 
> FFII Brussels - +32-484-566109 - +32-2-3500762
> "In July 2005, after several failed attempts to legalise software
> patents in Europe, the patent establishment changed its strategy.
> Instead of explicitly seeking to sanction the patentability of
> software, they are now seeking to create a central European patent
> court, which would establish and enforce patentability rules in their
> favor, without any possibility of correction by competing courts or
> democratically elected legislators."
> ___
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> zeromq-dev@lists.zeromq.org
> https://lists.zeromq.org/mailman/listinfo/zeromq-dev
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Re: [zeromq-dev] Version number & release

[Luca Boccassi]

On Tue, 2017-08-29 at 07:16 +, simon.giese...@btc-ag.com wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> the version number in the master is currently 4.2.3. However, there
> are quite a lot of changes that are beyond bugfixes, so I have the
> impression that it would be better to call the next version 4.3.0.

Hi,

I think it's better to stick with common patterns for libraries, that
is - major bump means backward incompatible API change, minor means
backward-compatible new APIs added, patch means bug fixes.

I don't think we have any DRAFT API queued up for stable for now - so I
think 4.2.3 is the right one for now, unless this changes.

> I would also like to repeat my request from some weeks ago to put out
> a new release soon. In general, I would really love to see releases a
> bit more often. At least for us, it is very difficult to integrate an
> unreleased version, for both technical and procedural reasons.
> 
> Best regards
> Simon

I agree, and a lot of work was done in the past year to make it easier,
but there's a stability issue at the moment with the curve tests - with
some recent changes they are hanging with only STABLE APIs enabled, and
this is a release blocker IMHO - we shouldn't tag it yet.

I hope to get more time to deal with that this week, this is the
relevant discussion:

https://github.com/zeromq/libzmq/pull/2650

After this problem is sorted I believe we should be in a good shape.

-- 
Kind regards,
Luca Boccassi

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Re: [zeromq-dev] FOSDEM 2018 - ZeroMQ gathering/hackaton?

[Benjamin Henrion]

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 11:50 AM, Luca Boccassi  wrote:
> On Tue, 2017-08-29 at 09:49 +0200, Benjamin Henrion wrote:
>> On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 7:20 PM, Luca Boccassi > om> wrote:
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > FOSDEM 2018 dates have been announced, it will be on Saturday 3rd
>> > and
>> > Sunday 4th of February. [1]
>> >
>> > Would people be interested in replicating last year's 2-days ZMQ
>> > gathering/hackaton before FOSDEM?
>> >
>> > Benjamin, would the hacker space we were at be available again?
>>
>> Yes, same recipe as last year.
>>
>> --
>> Benjamin Henrion 
>> FFII Brussels - +32-484-566109 - +32-2-3500762
>> "In July 2005, after several failed attempts to legalise software
>> patents in Europe, the patent establishment changed its strategy.
>> Instead of explicitly seeking to sanction the patentability of
>> software, they are now seeking to create a central European patent
>> court, which would establish and enforce patentability rules in their
>> favor, without any possibility of correction by competing courts or
>> democratically elected legislators."
>
> Great!
>
> Should we book the space or something like that?
>
> I'll create an event page on the wiki in a moment and then send the
> link

Yes, it should appear on the frontpage in the list of events, you have
to create a wikipage placeholder like last year with a link to the
zeromq wiki.

You would need ipv6 though to create and edit pages on hsbxl wiki.

Best,

--
Benjamin Henrion 
FFII Brussels - +32-484-566109 - +32-2-3500762
"In July 2005, after several failed attempts to legalise software
patents in Europe, the patent establishment changed its strategy.
Instead of explicitly seeking to sanction the patentability of
software, they are now seeking to create a central European patent
court, which would establish and enforce patentability rules in their
favor, without any possibility of correction by competing courts or
democratically elected legislators."
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Re: [zeromq-dev] FOSDEM 2018 - ZeroMQ gathering/hackaton?

[Luca Boccassi]

On Tue, 2017-08-29 at 09:49 +0200, Benjamin Henrion wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 7:20 PM, Luca Boccassi  om> wrote:
> > Hello,
> > 
> > FOSDEM 2018 dates have been announced, it will be on Saturday 3rd
> > and
> > Sunday 4th of February. [1]
> > 
> > Would people be interested in replicating last year's 2-days ZMQ
> > gathering/hackaton before FOSDEM?
> > 
> > Benjamin, would the hacker space we were at be available again?
> 
> Yes, same recipe as last year.
> 
> --
> Benjamin Henrion 
> FFII Brussels - +32-484-566109 - +32-2-3500762
> "In July 2005, after several failed attempts to legalise software
> patents in Europe, the patent establishment changed its strategy.
> Instead of explicitly seeking to sanction the patentability of
> software, they are now seeking to create a central European patent
> court, which would establish and enforce patentability rules in their
> favor, without any possibility of correction by competing courts or
> democratically elected legislators."

Great!

Should we book the space or something like that?

I'll create an event page on the wiki in a moment and then send the
link

-- 
Kind regards,
Luca Boccassi

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Re: [zeromq-dev] FOSDEM 2018 - ZeroMQ gathering/hackaton?

[Benjamin Henrion]

On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 7:20 PM, Luca Boccassi  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> FOSDEM 2018 dates have been announced, it will be on Saturday 3rd and
> Sunday 4th of February. [1]
>
> Would people be interested in replicating last year's 2-days ZMQ
> gathering/hackaton before FOSDEM?
>
> Benjamin, would the hacker space we were at be available again?

Yes, same recipe as last year.

--
Benjamin Henrion 
FFII Brussels - +32-484-566109 - +32-2-3500762
"In July 2005, after several failed attempts to legalise software
patents in Europe, the patent establishment changed its strategy.
Instead of explicitly seeking to sanction the patentability of
software, they are now seeking to create a central European patent
court, which would establish and enforce patentability rules in their
favor, without any possibility of correction by competing courts or
democratically elected legislators."
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[zeromq-dev] Version number & release

[Simon.Giesecke]

Hi,

the version number in the master is currently 4.2.3. However, there are quite a 
lot of changes that are beyond bugfixes, so I have the impression that it would 
be better to call the next version 4.3.0.

I would also like to repeat my request from some weeks ago to put out a new 
release soon. In general, I would really love to see releases a bit more often. 
At least for us, it is very difficult to integrate an unreleased version, for 
both technical and procedural reasons.

Best regards
Simon

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