[ZESTAlternative] Re: The middle class wants development backed by authoritarianism - Ashis Nandy Interview

2009-01-08 Thread Rajesh
--- In ZESTAlternative@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Victor sys...@... wrote:

 Especially for 3rd world countries like India, without strong
nationalistic feelings, each country will be overwhelmed by the
Western powers and will soon find itself like Egypt or Jordan or Iraq
- with quisling rulers serving as proxies for colonial powers.
 
Is that the only defence of the Indian nation? That the West would
undermine us otherwise? 

There is certainly much to be said about the ill-effects of the nation
state. 

BTW, my take on Nandy's assertion that the West is moving away from
the nation state was that he was referring to things like the
increasing autonomy being granted to Scotland by the UK and the
break-up of Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia and the festering issues of
Macedonia and Kurdistan.

 Also since Nandy is criticizing Hinduism he should state that he
himself is Christian. That's like articles by stock brokers on stocks
- they are required to state if they own any of the stocks they are
pushing. It's pretty shocking that millions of dollars flow into India
to convert Indians - what was the figure for World Vision in Tamil
Nadu last year? Almost 30 crores! And World Vision is not just a
conversion factory it has a big reputation as a CIA front. Conversions
are OK, I guess but not when fuelled by millions in FOREIGN MONEY. The
Russians and Chinese realize what is going on and have stopped such
inflows.
 
In the interest of full disclosure, let me admit that I was raised a
Hindu. At the risk of being chauvinistic, let me state that I find
conversion to a monotheistic faith a retrograde step. Monotheism is an
inherently flawed world view since it condemns people like me and even
unbaptized babies to hell. I would look differently at foreign money
if it was converting people to an atheistic or polytheistic world
view. That is probably progressive. 





Re: [ZESTAlternative] Re: The middle class wants development backed by authoritarianism - Ashis Nandy Interview

2009-01-13 Thread Rajesh Desai


There is certainly much to be said about the ill-effects of the nation state. 
Like what??

RD: Large nation states have  a tendency to become autocratic. Power and money 
flows to the center. Local issues, grassroots organizing withers.  
Multi-nationals get the upper hand over citizens' representatives. 
Diversity looses out; generica wins out. Large standing armies become 
affordable; huge outlays to develop WMDs become possible.  Borders that can 
control the movement of people become feasible.    

As you point out, there is much good in the notion of the nation. We are far 
better off for having a large India than a bunch of tiny indian states.  It 
allows large science projects and space exploration. It can reduce petty 
wars.   But, are we better off with a much stronger center? Does economic 
growth that tramples local issues really that good? Will people in Delhi really 
be able to take decisions in the best interests of the people who are affected 
by the Narmada dam? Does it really help anyone if Washington has the power to 
dictate medical marijuana and euthanasia policies in Oregon? 


 




Hello?? increasing autonomy being granted to Scotland by the UK?? How generous 
of the UK! 

RD: You take away with one hand and then give back with the other, covering 
yourself with glory :-) The point to take away is that the 
strong-center-weak-state nation-state is being reexamined in some places. 
Clearly, this is just in infancy; and may not go anywhere.
 
Yugoslavia is the opposite situation from what you think it is. Yugoslavia used 
to be a strong nation that valiantly fought the Nazis but it was too 
independent for the West so they successfully dismembered it - remember Clinton 
actually bombing Yougoslavia?  They have  carved out a little slave country - 
Kosovo - that the West is running using it's own muslim terrorists and 
drug-runners

RD: Serbia was always a state; Yugoslavia was stitched together. The Croats and 
the Serbs were on opposite side in WW2.

 
In the interest of full disclosure, let me admit that I was  raised a 
HinduMonotheism condemns people like me and even unbaptized babies to 
hell.
 

Rajesh, like me previously, you have a completely wrong idea about Hinduism, 
monotheism, hell etc.  Please re-read Bhagavad Gita and try some Deepak Chopra 
books, I was very impressed by the parts in Chopra's Quantum Healing where he 
reconciles the Quantum Physics with spirituality

RD: Thomas -I agree that all religions - poly, mono or a- have a lot in common. 
However, I assert that mono is different from poly and a- in a fundamental way. 
If I were to use CS analogy, religion is a base class; montheism, polytheism 
and athiesm are sub-classes. Judaism, Islam and Christianity are instances of 
the sub-class Monothiesm :-)

 
It may be entirely a shortcoming in my understanding of the Christian, Muslim 
and Jewish theology.  However,  in conversations with others of those faiths, I 
have never been able to get an explanation that is complete and is 
consistent. They either dismiss the chosen people/infidel/heathen stuff as 
not really in the holy books/canon/scriptures/theology (which is the argument 
you presented - right?) or they do not see anything wrong with it.