Re: [zfs-discuss] just can't import
On 13/04/2011 00:36, David Magda wrote: On Apr 11, 2011, at 17:54, Brandon High wrote: I suspect that the minimum memory for most moderately sized pools is over 16GB. There has been a lot of discussion regarding how much memory each dedup'd block requires, and I think it was about 250-270 bytes per block. 1TB of data (at max block size and no duplicate data) will require about 2GB of memory to run effectively. (This seems high to me, hopefully someone else can confirm.) There was a thread on the topic with the subject "Newbie ZFS Question: RAM for Dedup". I think it summarized pretty well by Erik Trimble: bottom line: 270 bytes per record so, for 4k record size, that works out to be 67GB per 1 TB of unique data. 128k record size means about 2GB per 1 TB. dedup means buy a (big) SSD for L2ARC. http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zfs-discuss/2010-October/045720.html Remember that 270 bytes per block means you're allocating one 512-byte sector for most current disks (a 4K sector for each block RSN). See also: http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zfs-discuss/2010-March/037978.html http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zfs-discuss/2010-February/037300.html Thanks for the info guys. I decided that the overhead involved in managing (esp deleting) deduped datasets far outweighed the benefits it was bringing me. I'm currently remaking datasets non-dedup and now I know about the "hang", I am a lot more patient :D Thanks Matt ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] just can't import
On Apr 11, 2011, at 17:54, Brandon High wrote: > I suspect that the minimum memory for most moderately sized pools is > over 16GB. There has been a lot of discussion regarding how much > memory each dedup'd block requires, and I think it was about 250-270 > bytes per block. 1TB of data (at max block size and no duplicate data) > will require about 2GB of memory to run effectively. (This seems high > to me, hopefully someone else can confirm.) There was a thread on the topic with the subject "Newbie ZFS Question: RAM for Dedup". I think it summarized pretty well by Erik Trimble: > bottom line: 270 bytes per record > > so, for 4k record size, that works out to be 67GB per 1 TB of unique data. > 128k record size means about 2GB per 1 TB. > > dedup means buy a (big) SSD for L2ARC. http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zfs-discuss/2010-October/045720.html Remember that 270 bytes per block means you're allocating one 512-byte sector for most current disks (a 4K sector for each block RSN). See also: http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zfs-discuss/2010-March/037978.html http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zfs-discuss/2010-February/037300.html ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] just can't import
On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Matt Harrison wrote: > It did finish eventually, not sure how long it took in the end. Things are > looking good again :) If you want to continue using dedup, you should invest in (a lot) more memory. The amount of memory required depends on the size of your pool and the type of data that you're storing. Data that large blocks will use less memory. I suspect that the minimum memory for most moderately sized pools is over 16GB. There has been a lot of discussion regarding how much memory each dedup'd block requires, and I think it was about 250-270 bytes per block. 1TB of data (at max block size and no duplicate data) will require about 2GB of memory to run effectively. (This seems high to me, hopefully someone else can confirm.) This is memory that is available to the ARC, above and beyond what is being used by the system and applications. Of course, using all your ARC to hold dedup data won't help much either, as either cacheable data or dedup info will be evicted rather quickly. Forcing the system to read dedup tables from the pool is slow, since it's a lot of random reads. All I know is that I have 8GB in my home system, and it is not enough to work with the 8TB pool that I have. Adding a fast SSD as L2ARC can help reduce the memory requirements somewhat by keeping dedup data more easily accessible. (And make sure that your L2ARC device is large enough. I fried a 30GB OCV Vertex in just a few months of use, I suspect from the constant writes.) -B -- Brandon High : bh...@freaks.com ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] just can't import
On 11/04/2011 10:04, Brandon High wrote: On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 10:01 PM, Matt Harrison wrote: The machine only has 4G RAM I believe. There's your problem. 4G is not enough memory for dedup, especially without a fast L2ARC device. It's time I should be heading to bed so I'll let it sit overnight, and if I'm still stuck with it I'll give Ian's recent suggestions a go and report back. I'd suggest waiting for it to finish the destroy. It will, if you give it time. Trying to force the import is only going to put you back in the same situation - The system will attempt to complete the destroy and seem to hang until it's completed. -B Thanks Brandon, It did finish eventually, not sure how long it took in the end. Things are looking good again :) Thanks for the help everyone Matt ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] just can't import
On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 10:01 PM, Matt Harrison wrote: > The machine only has 4G RAM I believe. There's your problem. 4G is not enough memory for dedup, especially without a fast L2ARC device. > It's time I should be heading to bed so I'll let it sit overnight, and if > I'm still stuck with it I'll give Ian's recent suggestions a go and report > back. I'd suggest waiting for it to finish the destroy. It will, if you give it time. Trying to force the import is only going to put you back in the same situation - The system will attempt to complete the destroy and seem to hang until it's completed. -B -- Brandon High : bh...@freaks.com ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] just can't import
On 11/04/2011 05:25, Brandon High wrote: On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 9:01 PM, Matt Harrison wrote: I had a de-dup dataset and tried to destroy it. The command hung and so did anything else zfs related. I waited half and hour or so, the dataset was only 15G, and rebooted. How much RAM does the system have? Dedup uses a LOT of memory, and it can take a long time to destroy dedup'd datasets. If you keep waiting, it'll eventually return. It could be a few hours or longer. The machine refused to boot, stuck at Reading ZFS Config. Asking around on The system resumed the destroy that was in progress. If you let it sit, it'll eventually complete. Well the livecd is also hanging on import, anything else zfs hangs. iostat shows some reads but they drop off to almost nothing after 2 mins or so. Likewise, it's trying to complete the destroy. Be patient and it'll complete. Never versions of Open Solaris or Solaris 11 Express may complete it faster. Any tips greatly appreciated, Just wait... -B Thanks for the replies, The machine only has 4G RAM I believe. It's time I should be heading to bed so I'll let it sit overnight, and if I'm still stuck with it I'll give Ian's recent suggestions a go and report back. Many thanks Matt ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] just can't import
On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 9:01 PM, Matt Harrison wrote: > I had a de-dup dataset and tried to destroy it. The command hung and so did > anything else zfs related. I waited half and hour or so, the dataset was > only 15G, and rebooted. How much RAM does the system have? Dedup uses a LOT of memory, and it can take a long time to destroy dedup'd datasets. If you keep waiting, it'll eventually return. It could be a few hours or longer. > The machine refused to boot, stuck at Reading ZFS Config. Asking around on The system resumed the destroy that was in progress. If you let it sit, it'll eventually complete. > Well the livecd is also hanging on import, anything else zfs hangs. iostat > shows some reads but they drop off to almost nothing after 2 mins or so. Likewise, it's trying to complete the destroy. Be patient and it'll complete. Never versions of Open Solaris or Solaris 11 Express may complete it faster. > Any tips greatly appreciated, Just wait... -B -- Brandon High : bh...@freaks.com ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] just can't import
On 04/11/11 04:01 PM, Matt Harrison wrote: I'm running a slightly old version of OSOL, I'm sorry I can't remember the version. I had a de-dup dataset and tried to destroy it. The command hung and so did anything else zfs related. I waited half and hour or so, the dataset was only 15G, and rebooted. The machine refused to boot, stuck at Reading ZFS Config. Asking around on the OSOL list someone kindly suggested I try a livecd and import, scrub, export the pool from there. Well the livecd is also hanging on import, anything else zfs hangs. iostat shows some reads but they drop off to almost nothing after 2 mins or so. Truss'ing the import process just loops this over and over: 3134/6:lwp_park(0xFDE02F38, 0)(sleeping...) 3134/6:lwp_park(0xFDE02F38, 0) Err#62 ETIME I wouldn't mind waiting for the pool to right itself, but to my inexperienced eyes it doesn't actually seem to be doing anything. Any tips greatly appreciated, Hello again, Two suggestions spring to main: Try to import read only. Try a recovery import, zpool import -Fn should tell you if the pool can be imported. It may take a while! -- Ian. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
[zfs-discuss] just can't import
I'm running a slightly old version of OSOL, I'm sorry I can't remember the version. I had a de-dup dataset and tried to destroy it. The command hung and so did anything else zfs related. I waited half and hour or so, the dataset was only 15G, and rebooted. The machine refused to boot, stuck at Reading ZFS Config. Asking around on the OSOL list someone kindly suggested I try a livecd and import, scrub, export the pool from there. Well the livecd is also hanging on import, anything else zfs hangs. iostat shows some reads but they drop off to almost nothing after 2 mins or so. Truss'ing the import process just loops this over and over: 3134/6: lwp_park(0xFDE02F38, 0) (sleeping...) 3134/6: lwp_park(0xFDE02F38, 0) Err#62 ETIME I wouldn't mind waiting for the pool to right itself, but to my inexperienced eyes it doesn't actually seem to be doing anything. Any tips greatly appreciated, thanks Matt Harrison ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
