Re: [Zope] [Urgent] Zope good for multiprocessor hardware
On Thu, 16 Nov 2000 Andreas Tille wrote: we intent to buy new web server hardware. We want to run Debian GNU/Linux on a Sun system. I wonder if zope could profit from a multi-processor architecture on such a system. If you mix in ZEO (now open source), yes it can. With ZEO you can run independent Zope processes that all refer to the same site. The global interpreter lock becomes irrelevant. Zope server starts several threads. So could they be split over the different processors automatically, can I enforce it or is it not possible. Sorry for quoting myself but I need this information today because we have a meeting with some salesman. If I can not clearly answer this question it might be bad for implementing zope in our institute because a wrong designed hardware could lead to another software than zope and this would be a shame. Then ZEO is exactly what you're looking for. Shane ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] [Urgent] Zope good for multiprocessor hardware
Shane Hathaway wrote: On Thu, 16 Nov 2000 Andreas Tille wrote: we intent to buy new web server hardware. We want to run Debian GNU/Linux on a Sun system. I wonder if zope could profit from a multi-processor architecture on such a system. If you mix in ZEO (now open source), yes it can. With ZEO you can run independent Zope processes that all refer to the same site. The global interpreter lock becomes irrelevant. Zope server starts several threads. So could they be split over the different processors automatically, can I enforce it or is it not possible. Sorry for quoting myself but I need this information today because we have a meeting with some salesman. If I can not clearly answer this question it might be bad for implementing zope in our institute because a wrong designed hardware could lead to another software than zope and this would be a shame. Then ZEO is exactly what you're looking for. You are assuming one uses some sort of load balancing. A good question is how you can control certain processes running on which processor? Our experiences of ZEO have been a Zope Server and bunch of Zope clients serving requests. We still contend that you get more out of single CPU and lots of memory and no balancer. Also, it depends on processor scheduling and thread modules of a given OS. With single server, it is easier on administering your site. Well, that is given.. KISS, Keep It Stupid Simple is what I come back to after having used all kinds of stuff; balancer, SAN, etc. Shane ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) begin:vcard n:Kim;Chalu tel;work:(212) 929-3087 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:www.egenius.com org:eGenius, Inc "Open-Source People" adr:;;137 Varick Street, 6th FL;New York;New York;10013;US version:2.1 email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Chief Navigator end:vcard
Re: [Zope] [Urgent] Zope good for multiprocessor hardware
This confirms my understanding of Zope and Python. ZEO does not solve your problem explicitly because ZEO is more of distributed way of balancing the load. This is another ball of wax and ,in theory, it works great. But it has its own particular problems. Until someone conclusively shows, our build of Zope server is based on single CPU. We would rather spend more time making Zope more fault-tolerant through use of journaled file system and high availability. Our experiences of supporting large sites have pointed in this direction. Daniel Dittmar wrote: I don't think Python (and therefor Zope) will profit from a multiprocessor as there is something known as the 'global lock' which prevents more than one Python thread to run at a time. Things look different if you're accessing a database (other than ZODB) because a properly written database module will release the lock while waiting for a reply. So Zope would use one processor and the database the other one(s). Other possibilities: - you have lots of static data, then these could be served by Apache directly (which would benefit from the additional processor) - you have some very expensive operations (generating GIFs from data etc.). Then you could implement those in a separate server. Andreas Tille wrote: On Thu, 16 Nov 2000 Andreas Tille wrote: we intent to buy new web server hardware. We want to run Debian GNU/Linux on a Sun system. I wonder if zope could profit from a multi-processor architecture on such a system. Zope server starts several threads. So could they be split over the different processors automatically, can I enforce it or is it not possible. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) begin:vcard n:Kim;Chalu tel;work:(212) 929-3087 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:www.egenius.com org:eGenius, Inc "Open-Source People" adr:;;137 Varick Street, 6th FL;New York;New York;10013;US version:2.1 email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Chief Navigator end:vcard
Re: [Zope] [Urgent] Zope good for multiprocessor hardware
On Thursday 23 November 2000 18:46, Daniel Dittmar wrote: I don't think Python (and therefor Zope) will profit from a multiprocessor as there is something known as the 'global lock' which prevents more than one Python thread to run at a time. Things look different if you're accessing a database (other than ZODB) because a properly written database module will release the lock while waiting for a reply. So Zope would use one processor and the database the other one(s). Other possibilities: - you have lots of static data, then these could be served by Apache directly (which would benefit from the additional processor) - you have some very expensive operations (generating GIFs from data etc.). Then you could implement those in a separate server. I would have to agree with this. We are currently running Zope on a dual processor Sparc station. However, also on that box is MySQL, and Apache. So, whilst Zope can only use one CPU, there is still plenty of CPU time for the DB and Apache to handle their requests. I've not done any tests, but I can't see how this _wouldn't_ be faster than a single CPU. And, of course, if you happen to be running Linux 2.4 on your system, the multi-threaded IP stack will definitely benefit from the extra CPUs. Have a better one, Curtis Maloney ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] [Urgent] Zope good for multiprocessor hardware
On Thu, 16 Nov 2000 Andreas Tille wrote: we intent to buy new web server hardware. We want to run Debian GNU/Linux on a Sun system. I wonder if zope could profit from a multi-processor architecture on such a system. Zope server starts several threads. So could they be split over the different processors automatically, can I enforce it or is it not possible. Sorry for quoting myself but I need this information today because we have a meeting with some salesman. If I can not clearly answer this question it might be bad for implementing zope in our institute because a wrong designed hardware could lead to another software than zope and this would be a shame. Kind regards Andreas. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] [Urgent] Zope good for multiprocessor hardware
I don't think Python (and therefor Zope) will profit from a multiprocessor as there is something known as the 'global lock' which prevents more than one Python thread to run at a time. Things look different if you're accessing a database (other than ZODB) because a properly written database module will release the lock while waiting for a reply. So Zope would use one processor and the database the other one(s). Other possibilities: - you have lots of static data, then these could be served by Apache directly (which would benefit from the additional processor) - you have some very expensive operations (generating GIFs from data etc.). Then you could implement those in a separate server. Andreas Tille wrote: On Thu, 16 Nov 2000 Andreas Tille wrote: we intent to buy new web server hardware. We want to run Debian GNU/Linux on a Sun system. I wonder if zope could profit from a multi-processor architecture on such a system. Zope server starts several threads. So could they be split over the different processors automatically, can I enforce it or is it not possible. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
