Re: [Zope] Tools used for programming Zope
At 09:49 1/19/01 +0100, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: >On Thursday 18 January 2001, at 18 h 40, the keyboard of Gerald Gutierrez ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Frankly, I'm a little surprised that this isn't a problem for more people, >> given the drawbacks of having to give up many of the existing tools, having >> the application server only be able to export in a proprietary format, and >> being bound to the application server for so many development-related >> tasks. It's impossible to do a simple grep through the code, for example ... > >I agree it is one of the MAIN problems with Zope. You have my support. A good way to have a read-write (at least a readonly) view of the ZODB would change things a lot. > I think that a good way would be to have a new Storage available: something that stored ZODB using the actual filesystem (directories, files, etc). A headstart is available at http://www.ppetru.net/software/index.html ( Directory Storage). If only it worked. :-( C U! -- Mario Valente ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Tools used for programming Zope
In it's current released form ZCVSMixin really does help with a lot of the configuration/process problems in developing with Zope. You can still 'grep' for stuff, and it is possible to perform simple edits in the xml representation without much fear of actually breaking anything (it's pretty obvious where the text of a method is stored etc.. ). However I have not really found this necessary. We use ZCVSMixin all the time, and (almost) never touch the filesystem directly. 1) Each developer works in their own Zope, with their own local 'checkout' of the project (many projects involve both instantiated Zope objects, and Python Product source code, all of which are managed in CVS). 2) When you are 'editing' a Zope object you use an editor that knows about FTP (e.g., emacs), WebDAV or a web browser. 3) You can use the 'normal' CVS process (update, modify, checkin). 4) You can still do sensible 'diffs' on the xml representation and get a pretty good idea about what's happening. 5) It's easy to set up a 'test' Zope, and a 'live' Zope each of which also has access to CVS. Periodically we update the 'test' Zope and let users bang away at it looking for bugs. When we're ready for an update to the live server we checkin our code tag it... (you can still use the filesystem CVS commands to tag versions recursively!) and then update the live server (inside a Zope Version) to that tag. When we save the Zope version we are fully updated. You still need to 'know too much' to use this process effectively, but, it is a pretty workable process, especially for a site that is constantly evolving (are there sites out there that *don't* constantly evolve?) It has also turned out that we occasionally need to make a *really* simple change on the live server... (there is no way this could possibly break anything... so I'll just change it!). As silly as that sounds.. it happens. It's nice to know that we can simply check that change in.. and know that all the developers will get it.. even though they are working on different systems. There are still a few annoying bugs, and there are several major issues that need to be addressed: http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Proposals/SynchronizationMechanismZCVSMixin I'm hoping to "get some time" soon to address some of these things. In the mean time... it's probably worth a look. -steve > "GG" == Gerald Gutierrez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: GG> At 02:37 PM 1/18/2001 -0600, you wrote: >> do an xml export. You can save cvs that to your hearts content. GG> ... but then I'll have to forego readability, edit-ability, GG> etc. GG> Frankly, I'm a little surprised that this isn't a problem for GG> more people, given the drawbacks of having to give up many of GG> the existing tools, having the application server only be able GG> to export in a proprietary format, and being bound to the GG> application server for so many development-related tasks. It's GG> impossible to do a simple grep through the code, for example GG> ... GG> I'm trying to reconcile this, as you might see, because I want GG> to use Zope but am having a hard time making it work for me. GG> Gerald. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Tools used for programming Zope
On Fri, 19 Jan 2001, Chris Withers wrote: > Well, I get around this by keeping the code in Python Products as much as > possible (nice and CVS friendly) and just using TTW stuff for customisation. That's the same thing as I do. What about you other people, are you actually doing serious application development in ZClasses? Maybe it's just me, but that doesn't seem very Zopish to me. However, I do agree that people tend to do ZClass development before going to Python Products, and since the (in my opinion) worst solution is chosen first, some of the less subborn ones might abandon Zope. However, I'm not quite sure I consider that a problem. Not with Itamars Guide anyway :). Happy Zoping! ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Tools used for programming Zope
On Thursday 18 January 2001, at 18 h 40, the keyboard of Gerald Gutierrez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Frankly, I'm a little surprised that this isn't a problem for more people, > given the drawbacks of having to give up many of the existing tools, having > the application server only be able to export in a proprietary format, and > being bound to the application server for so many development-related > tasks. It's impossible to do a simple grep through the code, for example ... I agree it is one of the MAIN problems with Zope. You have my support. A good way to have a read-write (at least a readonly) view of the ZODB would change things a lot. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Tools used for programming Zope
Jonothan Farr wrote: > > > >do an xml export. You can save cvs that to your hearts content. > > > > ... but then I'll have to forego readability, edit-ability, etc. > > > > Frankly, I'm a little surprised that this isn't a problem for more people, > > I'll wager that it is a problem for lots of people but you don't hear from them > here. They've already moved on to other solutions. I know a few who were > completely put off by not being able to grep through the code. Well, I get around this by keeping the code in Python Products as much as possible (nice and CVS friendly) and just using TTW stuff for customisation. cheers, Chris ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Tools used for programming Zope
> >do an xml export. You can save cvs that to your hearts content. > > ... but then I'll have to forego readability, edit-ability, etc. > > Frankly, I'm a little surprised that this isn't a problem for more people, I'll wager that it is a problem for lots of people but you don't hear from them here. They've already moved on to other solutions. I know a few who were completely put off by not being able to grep through the code. It's a problem I'd love to be able to solve but so far it hasn't been solved by people far smarter than me. --jfarr ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] Tools used for programming Zope
At 02:37 PM 1/18/2001 -0600, you wrote: >do an xml export. You can save cvs that to your hearts content. ... but then I'll have to forego readability, edit-ability, etc. Frankly, I'm a little surprised that this isn't a problem for more people, given the drawbacks of having to give up many of the existing tools, having the application server only be able to export in a proprietary format, and being bound to the application server for so many development-related tasks. It's impossible to do a simple grep through the code, for example ... I'm trying to reconcile this, as you might see, because I want to use Zope but am having a hard time making it work for me. Gerald. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Tools used for programming Zope
> I need to have source code readable on the filesystem independent of a > Zope server, so that I can do things like CVS them, use any editor > on them, grep them, etc. It seems that my only choice is to write > products in Python itself, instead of using the web interface of Zope, > which is one of the cool features of Zope I just came accross a wintel utility ($) called webdrive (http://www.webdrive.com) that could answer some of your needs like grepping or using your editor of choice. It mounts an FTP/WebDAV server as a drive in windows explorer. You can then edit the files with your tools, etc. It would be of very limited use with CVS though. They have a 20-day trial if you want to have a go at it. Ayhan ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Tools used for programming Zope
Hello all. Thanks to those who gave me feedback in terms of what tools they use to do Zope work. What I've gathered is that, while it is possible to do "remote editing" of certain objects like DTML and SQL methods, many Zope objects cannot be edited this way and must be done over the web. I need to have source code readable on the filesystem independent of a Zope server, so that I can do things like CVS them, use any editor on them, grep them, etc. It seems that my only choice is to write products in Python itself, instead of using the web interface of Zope, which is one of the cool features of Zope. This is unfortunate. If only Zope supports a "filesystem-natural" mapping for its entire object model, this would be very cool indeed. Thanks. Gerald. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Tools used for programming Zope
Can Dreamweaver also use the https protocol for WebDAVing? Ragnar >Apart from that, look at using an FTP or WebDAV enabled editor like >DreamWeaver. >It works now, but support is supposed to be getting better in Zope 2.3 > >cheers, > >Chris ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Tools used for programming Zope
Gerald Gutierrez wrote: > > So how do people go about programming Zope? What sorts of tools do people > use, and how do you go about getting your code to and from Zope? Can you > use CVS? Look at the CVSMixing thign for this, nto sure how it works but it provides what you want... Apart from that, look at using an FTP or WebDAV enabled editor like DreamWeaver. It works now, but support is supposed to be getting better in Zope 2.3 cheers, Chris ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Tools used for programming Zope
"Chris Withers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Both WebDAV and FTP support are supposed to be better in 2.3 with full > WebDAV level 2 compliance at some point in the future... I wonder if I can use emacs/efs with 2.3 w/out crashing it..? Right now when I try to use xemacs/efs with Zope 2.2.x, it occasionally brings down Zope(!). I guess it's time to download and test... //glw ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Tools used for programming Zope
Both WebDAV and FTP support are supposed to be better in 2.3 with full WebDAV level 2 compliance at some point in the future... What ever happened to Zope supporting SOAP? cheers, Chris ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] Tools used for programming Zope
Can you edit ZClasses and other objects with it, or is this only for DTML? At 08:00 PM 1/17/2001 +0100, Max M wrote: >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of >Gerald Gutierrez > > >So how do people go about programming Zope? What sorts of tools do people > >use, and how do you go about getting your code to and from Zope? Can you > >use CVS? > >I use UltraEdit which can load files from ftp so that I can edit them just >as a local file. > >Lot's of editors has this feature. > >I do look forward to better webdav support from DreamWeaver though. That's >gonna be great. > >regards Max M > >Max M. W. Rasmussen,Denmark. New Media Director >private: [EMAIL PROTECTED] work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >- >Specialization is for insects. - Robert A. Heinlein ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Tools used for programming Zope
>So how do people go about programming Zope? What sorts of tools do >people use, and how do you go about getting your code to and from >Zope? Can you use CVS? Attach to Zope using WebDav and away you go . ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )