[Zope3-dev] Re: visions, brands and roadmaps in the sand

2006-03-03 Thread Paolo Invernizzi

For sure the past two days threads are raising my concern...

We are using Zope3 internally, with profit.

We have followed all the change of directions in the roadmap, since the 
initial vision:


Designer/scripter/developer, TTW, ZCML for scripters/administrators, a 
beautiful framework for developer to play with.


Today, Zope3 is, basically, an application server, only python product 
developers are confortable with it.


And still, today, it has deprecated (?!) features in it's release (check 
the things you can add in a site folder), are they hope or promises?


*sigh*

For sure, we have no intention to spend (again) efforts in digging into 
Zope2, searching for functionality that we are missing in zope3.


I'm hoping that someone would follow Michael Kerrin road...

---
Paolo

Stephan Richter wrote:



This paragraph hits the nail on the head. I repeat in a slightly derived form:

  STABILITY IS OUR MESSAGE!

I have already received several private comments expressing concern about the 
discussion implying a fear of instability of direction.


Regards,
Stephan


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[Zope3-dev] Re: visions, brands and roadmaps in the sand

2006-03-02 Thread Martin Aspeli
On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 17:44:36 -, Martijn Faassen [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
wrote:


I would encourage all Zope developers to print out Martijn's post and hang  
it on the wall over their monitors. Please, no more empty promises that  
scare people. :)


Martin

--
(muted)

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[Zope3-dev] Re: visions, brands and roadmaps in the sand

2006-03-02 Thread Geoff Davis
On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 20:39:54 +0100, Lennart Regebro wrote:

 Technology-wise:
 
[snip]
 
 This, as far as I can see, is compatible with 99% of the visions we
 have discussed here, and it will keep us busy for a year. :-)

I like your summary.  It sounds consistent with both Jim's proposed vision
#2 and what I think Martijn is advocating.  Perhaps we are witnessing a
state of violent agreement here on the list?

 Marketing-wise:
 
 I can see the point in separating out the non-webby parts of Zope3 to
 gear it towards people who don't want a big applictaion server. And,
 to be honest, if I did anything in python today, I'd want to use teh
 component architecture, even though what I do didn't touch the web.
 I'm not sure we want to name it Z but i'm not completely opposed
 either. But I prefer Zope Component Architecture.
 
 I am opposed to renaming Zope 3. It seems to me that the renaming of
 Zope3 is suggested for three reasons:
 
[snip]
 
 I think renaming will mean we loose a brand, and we make people
 confused, and we need to change a whole lot of code. :) It doesn't
 seem worth it.

I think that all of us would be well-served by a better differentiation
between Zope 2 and Zope 3.  Zope 3 is architecturally very different from
(and much better than) Zope 2.  However, I strongly agree that we should
not lose the Zope brand for Zope 3.  I do not think that anybody is
seriously advocating that, though perhaps (I am too lazy to google) some
people may be suggesting that perhaps an augmented / qualified name would
help differentiate the two (Zope 3: Now with real fruit flavor! / Zope
3: The Ninjatasticator!).  I don't feel particularly strongly about the
issue.

I _do_ think that it would be a good idea calling the stripped down
non-app-server core of Zope 3 something other than Zope.  As others have
pointed out, there has been a lot of time and effort invested in
connecting the word Zope to a (powerful, complicated, big) application
server.  Since Zed (or whatever) is not an app server, it should be called
something else.  Again, though, this is not something I really want to
argue about.

Geoff

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Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: visions, brands and roadmaps in the sand

2006-03-02 Thread Lennart Regebro
 I think that all of us would be well-served by a better differentiation
 between Zope 2 and Zope 3.

Not as long as the main vision of the community is to make them less
different. :-)

--
Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/
CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/
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