Re: 4D Server v18.1LTS - Startup Takes 10-15 Minutes
On 4/10/2020 8:50 AM, Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech wrote: I can confirm that v18.1 4D Server can open an uncompiled Project database and users can connect to it and it appears to work. You can get into Design mode and open the structure, methods and forms but you can't make changes to them. You also cannot create new methods or forms. The “+” button in the Explorer is disabled and if you use a keyboard shortcut to create a new method it give you an error “There is no method for this table/form. You can’t create one because the disk is locked.” I’ve checked the v18 documentation and I can’t find an explicit statement about using an uncompiled project database with 4D Server. So I’m not sure if this is something that will be fully implemented in a later version. But it appears that right now an uncompiled Project database is basically in read only mode in terms of the Design environment. Ah, Tim. Thank you for your gentle application of the clue stick. I now see that I had a fundamentally flawed understanding of the proper usage of project databases. I obviously missed the explanation of the workflow for deployment and that project databases were intended for off-line development with a build/compilation step prior to deployment in production. Fair enough. Will re-jigger my expectations and look forward to the day when I can develop in real-time against a server-deployed application in project format. Thanks again. -M ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: 4D Server v18.1LTS - Startup Takes 10-15 Minutes
On 4/10/2020 6:18 AM, John DeSoi via 4D_Tech wrote: Have you tried it using binary mode to see if there is any difference? Is there anything unusual about your project, e.g. a really large number of methods or forms? You get the same results on different computers? Is it a regular server or a merged server application? I assume your application is compiled; if so, have you tried to open it with 4D server interpreted? Thank you for your reply, John. FWIW, this a regular server application running in interpreted mode. Nothing terribly unusual about it. Methods and forms number probably in the 1,000 - 1,500 range, with a 1.5 GB data file. It runs absolutely fine in single-user on my desktop PC. But, in reply to Keisuke's earlier response, I did as you suggested. And it is is indeed the project database format conversion that is the root of the problem. The same database converted to v18.1 and left in binary format has no performance issues at all. Many thanks again. -M ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: 4D Server v18.1LTS - Startup Takes 10-15 Minutes
On 4/9/2020 10:24 PM, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech wrote: Thank you for your reply. I have an application I'm trying to convert from 4D v17R6 to v18.1LTS. It is hosted on Windows Server 2016. It was a well-behaved application when running v17R6 with no notable issues. However, now that it has been upgraded and running on v18.1 LTS, it takes 10-15 minutes for the application to start-up in 4D Server. Specifically, from the moment that the database is selected from the Open... menu item until the Server Administration Window appears is between 10 and 15 minutes. is it possible that the application, for whatever reason, needs to copy all your database files to a virtual store? Hmm. I don't know what a virtual store is, so probably not. --- also, windows server by default has a conservative power plan, which prevents 4D Server from drawing on its full potential. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/2207548/slow-performance-on-windows-server-when-using-the-balanced-power-plan https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/administration/performance-tuning/hardware/power/power-performance-tuning of course, that does not explain why 17 R6 is doing just fine. The server host is a VM running in a large data center. Interrogating the Power settings shows nothing that appear would be throttling power, i.e., all options set to "never sleep", with Power Place set to "High performance". --- The same application opens pretty much instantly when running in single-user mode on my development machine (Windows 10 Pro). So the only difference is host application (4D Server) and OS. what about the hardware? more specifically, do you know if the storage is HD or SSD? Running on VMWare, as above. I don't know exactly how the VM has been provisioned, but we're hosted in a university data center with some resources. Disk Management reveals nothing about the hardware configuration except to say "VMWare Virtual Disk" for each volume. I would rule out the OS being an issue since the same application ran fine on the same host machine and opened with no delay just prior to the upgrade from v17R6 to v18.1LTS. have you tried to launch 4D Server on your dev. machine, Windows 10 Pro, to see if the correlation is really linked to the application type? and just to rule out that the issue is not application specific, you might want to compare the time with a fresh 4DB. Well, your question promoted me to re-convert the database on the server host. Previously I had converted to v18.1 on my desktop development machine and also converted from binary to project database. So, I have now opened a fresh copy of the v17R6 database with v18.1 LTS on the server itself. It opened pretty much instantly after the conversion warning dialog. I then closed and re-opened the database several times in succession, each time with no delay. So, my conclusion is that converting the database to a v18 project database is the performance killer. Which is mildly annoying, because the project database format was a most significant reason why I wanted to upgrade, since it is a really appealing feature. But apparently it still has some major flaws. So, now knowing that the project database aspect is the problem, is it worth reporting a bug? Or would it be best to just wait for a few more iterations of v18 for this feature to mature? Many thanks again for your assistance. ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
4D Server v18.1LTS - Startup Takes 10-15 Minutes
I have an application I'm trying to convert from 4D v17R6 to v18.1LTS. It is hosted on Windows Server 2016. It was a well-behaved application when running v17R6 with no notable issues. However, now that it has been upgraded and running on v18.1 LTS, it takes 10-15 minutes for the application to start-up in 4D Server. Specifically, from the moment that the database is selected from the Open... menu item until the Server Administration Window appears is between 10 and 15 minutes. Insofar as I can tell from timestamps in internal logging in my application, this is all before a single line of code of my app runs. 4D Server gives no indication that anything is happening during this time interval (i.e., no progress bars, etc.). The same application opens pretty much instantly when running in single-user mode on my development machine (Windows 10 Pro). So the only difference is host application (4D Server) and OS. I would rule out the OS being an issue since the same application ran fine on the same host machine and opened with no delay just prior to the upgrade from v17R6 to v18.1LTS. Might anyone have any insight as to why 4D Server is performing so badly? This makes it pretty much unusable. Unless I can find a solution, I will have to write version 18.1 LTS off as not ready for deployment and roll back to v17R6. FWIW, this is a project (i.e., not binary) database. I'm not sure whether that is pertinent to this issue since, as mentioned above, it runs with no delay on 4D single-user. Many thanks in advance. -M ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Error 30 When Using HTTP Get or HTTP Request
Thanks, Tim and Bruno. You are both correct. This particular organization's server uses SSL3 and supports only TLS 1.0. Given that the site in question belongs to one of the five largest museums in the world, I would rate my chances at getting them to re-deploy their server platform at my request are between zero and nil. Thanks again. On 2/11/2019 12:29 PM, Timothy Penner wrote: I agree with Bruno; the most likely answer is that the server does not support TLS 1,2 - use the site Bruno mentioned in order to test the server to see what TLS versions it supports. Check out the blog post from October 2017 describing the change in 4D where we no longer allow connections to servers that do not support TLS 1.2: https://blog.4d.com/more-security-for-your-4d-server/ You can handle this on the 4D Side by lowering the minimum TLS version (shown in the tech tip below) but it's not recommended: https://kb.4d.com/assetid=78102 Honestly, you should ask the provider to update their software so that it supports TLS 1.2 as the older algorithms have vulnerabilities in them and you shouldn't enable them if you are concerned about security. -Tim Timothy Penner Senior Technical Services Engineer 4D Inc 95 S. Market Street, Suite #240 CA 95113 San Jose United States Téléphone : +1-408-557-4600 Standard : +1-408-557-4600 Fax : +1-408-271-5080 Email : tpen...@4d.com Web : www.4D.com -Original Message- From: 4D_Tech <4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com> On Behalf Of Bruno LEGAY via 4D_Tech Sent: Monday, February 11, 2019 12:18 PM To: 4d_tech@lists.4d.com Cc: Bruno LEGAY Subject: Re: Error 30 When Using HTTP Get or HTTP Request Hi, Could be there that the SSL/TLS version of your server is not supported (too old or too new). You can use nmap or online tools to check the configuration of the server... https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/ This will give you a list of ciphers HTH Bruno LEGAY ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Error 30 When Using HTTP Get or HTTP Request
I am using v17R3 on Windows 10, and attempting to retrieve some
resources from the web using HTTP Get() and HTTP Request() functions.
Every attempt fails with an Error 30. Here is the contents of the arrays
returned by GET LAST ERROR STACK:
*Code* *Int Comp**
* *Error description**
*
49
srvr
SSL internal error : error:14077102:SSL
routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:unsupported protocol
5
xbox
Access denied {path}
30 4DRT
Error #30
Attempting to retrieve the same resource from a web browser (e.g.,
Chrome) on the same machine is successful, so the problem is in 4D, not
at the machine level.
Quitting 4D and restarting the database application had no effect.
There's a thread from November where Bruno LeGay reported the same
problem, but using v15.5 with 4D running as a service. Keisuke Miyako
replied, saying something about DNS, but that can't be the issue here,
since presumably 4D is using the same resolver that my web browser uses.
Plus the error message returned says nothing about DNS, but rather
indicates SSL issues as the source of the problem.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
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