Re: activating default user

[Robert ListMail via 4D_Tech]

HI Kirk, thanks for taking the time to weigh-in on this… I’m in need of some 
clarification, see below:

> I include a field in the [Users] table for the database id and database
> name. The significance of that value depends on the rules you set up for
> yourself.

I assume that these are arbitrary values….  How might you use this ID 
(Integer?) and the Database Name? I’m assuming that the scope is limited to 
this single database.
 
> 1) You could say the 4D structure is the authority in which case if the
> structure doesn't, or no longer, has that user's db id in it that [user] is
> inactive and I'd clear the db id field.

Are you looking for a [User]DB_ID in the structure? Clearing an ID from the 
structure? Okay, I think I understand now… Since the structure is the 
“authority” in this case I’m thinking you are using the 4D dialog and allow the 
user to login… you GET USER LIST then lookup the user_ID via user_name that was 
retrieved from Current User and then see if the user is in the [user] table? 
However, the more I think about it, I bet your perspective is coming from a 
custom dialog… where the [user] table could be used first and that the 4D users 
could still be the authority…

> 2) Or you can take the other approach and say that every 'active' [user]
> will have a 4D login and create any that are missing.

Okay, that makes sense…

> With #1 you can limit who can create users to who can get to EDIT USERS.

WHAT?!? :)  Please clarify what you mean here.

> It's easy to… update the 4D user id…

What do you mean by update the 4D user ID here...

> The tricky part about creating 4D users is keeping out of the password
> business. Part of my goal was to not have to manage passwords. I want users
> to be responsible for that. But you still need some control. Plus when you
> create a user you have to assign a password. My solution is to have a temp
> password field in [users]. If a user has their password reset by admin, for
> whatever reason, a temp password is assigned to the 4D user and saved in
> the [user] record. My rule is 'the next time you log in with the temp
> password you have to change it.’

Great Idea!  With this current DB the Admin is managing users and passwords via 
“Edit Access”. Only about 10 users but I suppose the Admin knows everyone’s PW. 

> This is where USERS TO BLOB and BLOB TO USERS comes in. These
> commands preserve the 4D user passwords. To allow me to update the
> structure I save the users with USERS TO BLOB every time the server shuts
> down. And then every time is starts up I look for the user blob and call
> BLOB TO USERS.

So in this case where you USERS TO BLOB and BLOB TO USERS, is the 4D structure 
the authority? How was it originally populated?  I can see it starting from 
[users] that updated 4D or where the Admin created a bunch of users that got 
synced to [users] or where no users table was used at all since it could be 
maintained in 4D if you needed no additional user info stored and if you were 
not using your password reset feature.

I very much appreciate your detailed post—for some reason I’m having trouble 
getting full clarity. 

Thanks,

Robert


**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: activating default user

[Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech]

Robert,
I include a field in the [Users] table for the database id and database
name. The significance of that value depends on the rules you set up for
yourself.

1) You could say the 4D structure is the authority in which case if the
structure doesn't, or no longer, has that user's db id in it that [user] is
inactive and I'd clear the db id field. And if there is no [user] for a 4D
user I'd add a record.

2) Or you can take the other approach and say that every 'active' [user]
will have a 4D login and create any that are missing.

With #1 you can limit who can create users to who can get to EDIT USERS.
It's easy to create [users] as you need or update the 4D user id but not
easy to link up the 4D user with [users] if they are created already.
I prefer #2. But either way works depending on what you need to do.

The tricky part about creating 4D users is keeping out of the password
business. Part of my goal was to not have to manage passwords. I want users
to be responsible for that. But you still need some control. Plus when you
create a user you have to assign a password. My solution is to have a temp
password field in [users]. If a user has their password reset by admin, for
whatever reason, a temp password is assigned to the 4D user and saved in
the [user] record. My rule is 'the next time you log in with the temp
password you have to change it.'

You can see if this password was used when the user logs in with VALIDATE
PASSWORD using that password. If it validates it means they used it and you
can prompt them to changed it.

What you can't do is get the password from the 4D user. So while you can
create 4D users easily you blow out the old passwords if you update the
structure. This is where USERS TO BLOB and BLOB TO USERS comes in. These
commands preserve the 4D user passwords. To allow me to update the
structure I save the users with USERS TO BLOB every time the server shuts
down. And then every time is starts up I look for the user blob and call
BLOB TO USERS.

This is great if you have a number of installations with their own users
but you need to update the structure.


On Wed, Nov 14, 2018 at 11:36 AM Robert ListMail via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Kirk, what was your method of keeping use rand 4d recs in sync?
>
> Thanks,
>
> R
>
> > On Sep 2, 2016, at 10:52 AM, Kirk Brooks  wrote:
> >
> > You have to explicitly
> > offer some way to log in as a different 4D user or, as I eventually did,
> > tie my user records to a 4D user.
>
> **
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
> **



-- 
Kirk Brooks
San Francisco, CA
===

*We go vote - they go home*
**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: activating default user

[Dani Beaubien via 4D_Tech]

Sigh, there is a hard limit of 15k admin users in the 4D User system. I am 
working with systems that have more than that # of users. Going to have to come 
up with a different approach. Thinking about having a smaller set of 4D User 
setup that I recycle and link them up to the users in the database when they 
log in. Essentially tie them to the user’s login session. That would keep the # 
of 4D Users down to a reasonable level.

I have enjoyed this topic. Been giving me things to think about.

Dani Beaubien
Open Road Development


> On Nov 14, 2018, at 12:36 PM, Robert ListMail via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> Kirk, what was your method of keeping use rand 4d recs in sync?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> R
> 
>> On Sep 2, 2016, at 10:52 AM, Kirk Brooks  wrote:
>> 
>> You have to explicitly
>> offer some way to log in as a different 4D user or, as I eventually did,
>> tie my user records to a 4D user.
> 
> **
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
> **

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: activating default user

[Robert ListMail via 4D_Tech]

Kirk, what was your method of keeping use rand 4d recs in sync?

Thanks,

R

> On Sep 2, 2016, at 10:52 AM, Kirk Brooks  wrote:
> 
> You have to explicitly
> offer some way to log in as a different 4D user or, as I eventually did,
> tie my user records to a 4D user.

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: activating default user

[Randy Jaynes]

> On Sep 2, 2016, at 11:52 AM, Kirk Brooks  wrote:
> 
> Randy,
> Not really. All logins are automatically attributed to the default user. I
> used it for years with my own user login system. You have to explicitly
> offer some way to log in as a different 4D user or, as I eventually did,
> tie my user records to a 4D user.
> 

Ideally I would like to do the same. We’ve been using our own user login system 
for years, like many, many others.

Now that the tools are available to re-map the record based users to the 4D 
based users, I would like to get that mapping as well because there are more 
and more requests about meticulously tracking who did what.

It’s hard to do that without using the 4D password system.

So I see this at least as the first step to getting where you are.

I just have slight concerns that I’ll be logging in as default user, creating 
forms, objects, methods, etc…then update someone’s server and suddenly they 
can’t access parts of our system because the user they logged in as somehow 
doesn’t have the right access or something.

However, at the moment, It’ll just be Default User, no groups, and everyone has 
Design Access.

Simple as possible to start with.

Thanks for the feedback!

Randy

--
Randy Jaynes
Senior Programmer and Customer Support

http://printpoint.com • (845) 359-0298 • PrintPoint, Inc • 57 Ludlow Lane • 
Palisades, NY 10964 


 

**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

Re: activating default user

[Kirk Brooks]

Randy,
Not really. All logins are automatically attributed to the default user. I
used it for years with my own user login system. You have to explicitly
offer some way to log in as a different 4D user or, as I eventually did,
tie my user records to a 4D user.

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 7:59 AM, Randy Jaynes  wrote:

> I have a need to activate the default user in the 4D password system
> (KB-76953 Enabling Default User) so I can get the 4D Backup progress
> thermometer deactivated on client machines.
>
> Is anyone aware of development 'gotchas’ or other problems that might
> occur which would suggest this is a bad idea?
>
> I did a quick test this morning and it _seems_ like it will be ok to do
> this and leave the new “Default User” in the design group, but before doing
> this on my real structure i thought I’d check in with everyone else.
>
> Thanks,
> Randy
>
> --
> Randy Jaynes
> Senior Programmer and Customer Support
>
> http://printpoint.com • (845) 359-0298 • PrintPoint, Inc • 57 Ludlow Lane
> • Palisades, NY 10964
>
>
>
>
> **
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
> **




-- 
Kirk Brooks
San Francisco, CA
===
**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**

activating default user

[Randy Jaynes]

I have a need to activate the default user in the 4D password system (KB-76953 
Enabling Default User) so I can get the 4D Backup progress thermometer 
deactivated on client machines.

Is anyone aware of development 'gotchas’ or other problems that might occur 
which would suggest this is a bad idea?

I did a quick test this morning and it _seems_ like it will be ok to do this 
and leave the new “Default User” in the design group, but before doing this on 
my real structure i thought I’d check in with everyone else.

Thanks,
Randy

--
Randy Jaynes
Senior Programmer and Customer Support

http://printpoint.com • (845) 359-0298 • PrintPoint, Inc • 57 Ludlow Lane • 
Palisades, NY 10964 




**
4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
**