Re: 4D Backup causes 4D Remote to hang (15.4) [Solved?]

2017-11-25 Thread Perkins, Bradley D via 4D_Tech 
I think this problem is finally solved. As I'd always suspected, it was likely 
related to power management features.

As previously noted, running the command ...

$ pmset -g

... suggested that all settings were as they should be. Mainly power nap was 
turned off globally.

About a week ago someone asked another question here about 'app nap'. I'd 
previously checked 4D.app using Get Info after the Sierra > High Sierra upgrade 
and verified it was set as needed.

I ran the command to check app nap on 4D.app and there was no value returned. 
Hmmm?
I then ran the command to enable app nap on 4D.app then check it again. It was 
now set.

I also toggled all of the machine's energy saver settings. I recorded them. 
Changed them. Saved them. Then reset them. This may have not helped, but I 
don't see how it could have hurt.

We've run for almost a week now.

-- Brad



From: Perkins, Bradley D
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2017 9:59 AM
To: 4d_tech@lists.4d.com
Subject: Re: 4D Backup causes 4D Remote to hang (15.4)

Still having problems. Based on various email notifications, I can see
that the scripts that under past OS versions would reliably restart 4D are
trying to do so, but w/o success. I don't know why they fail, but can see
they are repeatedly trying. That continues until I remotely access the
Mac. At that point the next scheduled run of the script succeeds.

If I try to run these scripts via SSH they don't succeed. I have to launch
Apple Remote Desktop.
I also have a password protected PHP app running on that server that
allows me to kill a hung 4D from my phone. That doesn't work during these
problem periods either.

It seems like this points to a power management issue, but pmset -g would
indicate that everything is set as it should be. I did not mention it
earlier, but this Mac Mini sits in a rack and hooked to a KVM. It normally
doesn't have a display.

Are any others running v15.4 (or v15.5) 4D Remote on Mac OS High Sierra
successfully? Or, if you are running it and having problems, what are they?

Thanks,

Brad Perkins



On 11/15/17, 5:13 PM, "Perkins, Bradley D" <bperk...@lanl.gov> wrote:

>Thanks Chuck,
>
>I've reset the backup by deleting preferences. I also modified my scripts
>to use kill -9 instead of killall. Hopefully this will improve the
>situation. I should know overnight.
>
>-- Brad Perkins
>
>On 11/14/17, 1:00 PM, "4D_Tech on behalf of 4d_tech-requ...@lists.4d.com"
><4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com on behalf of 4d_tech-requ...@lists.4d.com>
>wrote:
>
>I would quit 4D server, delete preferences and recreate using menu
>commands
>re backup. Perhaps that us trhe problem. Also check where the backup
>is
>going to if a HD try a different location
>
>Regards and hiope this helps
>Chuck
>

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Re: 4D Backup causes 4D Remote to hang (15.4)

2017-11-17 Thread Perkins, Bradley D via 4D_Tech 
Still having problems. Based on various email notifications, I can see
that the scripts that under past OS versions would reliably restart 4D are
trying to do so, but w/o success. I don't know why they fail, but can see
they are repeatedly trying. That continues until I remotely access the
Mac. At that point the next scheduled run of the script succeeds.

If I try to run these scripts via SSH they don't succeed. I have to launch
Apple Remote Desktop.
I also have a password protected PHP app running on that server that
allows me to kill a hung 4D from my phone. That doesn't work during these
problem periods either.

It seems like this points to a power management issue, but pmset -g would
indicate that everything is set as it should be. I did not mention it
earlier, but this Mac Mini sits in a rack and hooked to a KVM. It normally
doesn't have a display.

Are any others running v15.4 (or v15.5) 4D Remote on Mac OS High Sierra
successfully? Or, if you are running it and having problems, what are they?

Thanks,

Brad Perkins



On 11/15/17, 5:13 PM, "Perkins, Bradley D"  wrote:

>Thanks Chuck,
>
>I've reset the backup by deleting preferences. I also modified my scripts
>to use kill -9 instead of killall. Hopefully this will improve the
>situation. I should know overnight.
>
>-- Brad Perkins
>
>On 11/14/17, 1:00 PM, "4D_Tech on behalf of 4d_tech-requ...@lists.4d.com"
><4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com on behalf of 4d_tech-requ...@lists.4d.com>
>wrote:
>
>I would quit 4D server, delete preferences and recreate using menu
>commands
>re backup. Perhaps that us trhe problem. Also check where the backup
>is
>going to if a HD try a different location
>
>Regards and hiope this helps
>Chuck
>

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Re: 4D Backup causes 4D Remote to hang (15.4) (John DeSoi)

2017-11-14 Thread Perkins, Bradley D via 4D_Tech 
John,

Possibly, but under normal circumstances there might be one request. This is a 
small database and backup runs quick. There is a remote monitoring system that 
sends a web request every 3 minutes. The page simply responds with the current 
time although it might get that time from the server. Thing is we've been doing 
this for more than a decade without problems. We also use NTK and Active4D for 
web serving.

Does On Backup Startup Database method run on all connected clients when the 
server is backed up? The docs say "This concerns all 4D environments: 4D (all 
modes), 4D Server and databases merged with 4D Volume Desktop." It isn't clear 
if that means it can be run in all modes or runs in any mode?

Thanks,

Brad

On 11/14/17, 8:26 AM, "4D_Tech on behalf of 4d_tech-requ...@lists.4d.com" 
<4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com on behalf of 4d_tech-requ...@lists.4d.com> wrote:

Are there database requests coming in via the web server at the time of the 
backup? Have you tried turning off the web server during backup? Or at least 
return an error response if access to the database is needed when backup is 
running.

John DeSoi, Ph.D.

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Re: 4D Backup causes 4D Remote to hang (15.4)

2017-11-14 Thread Charles Miller via 4D_Tech 
I would quit 4D server, delete preferences and recreate using menu commands
re backup. Perhaps that us trhe problem. Also check where the backup is
going to if a HD try a different location

Regards and hiope this helps
Chuck

On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Jim Crate via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> On Nov 14, 2017, at 9:40 AM, Perkins, Bradley D via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>
> > What should I try next? Start with a new backup? Reinstall 4D?
>
> Personally, I would take the easy way out and change the script that is
> supposed to quit/restart 4D to something like:
>
> killall -9 4D
>
> which will not be deterred by error alerts or processes that are not
> responding to normal signals.
>
> If there are problems because 4D was quit by the OS instead of being asked
> nicely, follow it up with a full system restart, although that will require
> running the script with root privileges (probably not a problem, just run
> the killing part using cron as root, and the restarting part using launchd
> as the 4D user).
>
> Side story: my client was running v15 Server on macOS 10.12, and suffering
> from mass client disconnects. As the number of users approached 25, 3 or 4
> times per day 10-15 users would be disconnected from the server at once,
> with no consistency among users disconnected. While trouble-shooting, I ran
> a constant ping from another server to the 4D server, which shows several
> seconds of dropped packets corresponding to disconnect events. I then ran a
> ping on the 4D machine to another server, and had no more disconnect events
> (until someone restarted the computer and didn’t restart the ping command
> in Terminal). Obviously 4D wasn’t “fixed”; something in 4D server was
> killing the network stack in some way and all that code was being executed
> the same way as before. However, the actual problem went away and that’s
> really all that mattered.
>
> Note to self: perhaps an automated weekly restart of 4D Server is the
> trick to avoiding the occasional v16x DELAY PROCESS hang.  When a hammer
> works, might as well use it.
>
> Jim Crate
>
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-
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 Informed Solutions, Inc.
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  http://www.informed-solutions.com
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Re: 4D Backup causes 4D Remote to hang (15.4)

2017-11-14 Thread Jim Crate via 4D_Tech 
On Nov 14, 2017, at 9:40 AM, Perkins, Bradley D via 4D_Tech 
<4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> What should I try next? Start with a new backup? Reinstall 4D?

Personally, I would take the easy way out and change the script that is 
supposed to quit/restart 4D to something like:

killall -9 4D

which will not be deterred by error alerts or processes that are not responding 
to normal signals. 

If there are problems because 4D was quit by the OS instead of being asked 
nicely, follow it up with a full system restart, although that will require 
running the script with root privileges (probably not a problem, just run the 
killing part using cron as root, and the restarting part using launchd as the 
4D user).

Side story: my client was running v15 Server on macOS 10.12, and suffering from 
mass client disconnects. As the number of users approached 25, 3 or 4 times per 
day 10-15 users would be disconnected from the server at once, with no 
consistency among users disconnected. While trouble-shooting, I ran a constant 
ping from another server to the 4D server, which shows several seconds of 
dropped packets corresponding to disconnect events. I then ran a ping on the 4D 
machine to another server, and had no more disconnect events (until someone 
restarted the computer and didn’t restart the ping command in Terminal). 
Obviously 4D wasn’t “fixed”; something in 4D server was killing the network 
stack in some way and all that code was being executed the same way as before. 
However, the actual problem went away and that’s really all that mattered.

Note to self: perhaps an automated weekly restart of 4D Server is the trick to 
avoiding the occasional v16x DELAY PROCESS hang.  When a hammer works, might as 
well use it.

Jim Crate

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Re: 4D Backup causes 4D Remote to hang (15.4)

2017-11-14 Thread John DeSoi via 4D_Tech 
Are there database requests coming in via the web server at the time of the 
backup? Have you tried turning off the web server during backup? Or at least 
return an error response if access to the database is needed when backup is 
running.

John DeSoi, Ph.D.

> On Nov 14, 2017, at 8:40 AM, Perkins, Bradley D via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> What should I try next? Start with a new backup? Reinstall 4D?

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