Re: [9fans] mmap

FYI: http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/3835498/The_funniest_and_cleverest_time_travel_movie_ever_made__ /G. --- Den tis 2008-11-04 skrev Charles Forsyth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Från: Charles Forsyth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Ämne: Re: [9fans] mmap > Till: 9fans@9fans.net >

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

I think ericvh has a P.Enis, I know I do. Actually maybe it was Ennis (that one's at home), but it's funny enough. brucee On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 12:37 AM, Dan Cross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 5:07 PM, Bruce Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> [...] poor old Mr Peter Eni

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 5:07 PM, Bruce Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [...] poor old Mr Peter Enis [...] Wow, this is really sad, but I *just* got that. - Dan C.

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

Sharp, Noah. Shame you and all the 9fans had to get back to real work. I'm trying to avoid it but I have to face reality (again) one day. I'm actually starting to really appreciate Football (Soccer). Though it seems inevitable if you like bars here. I can't but think of poor old Mr Peter Enis wh

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

http://www.apa.org/journals/features/psp7761121.pdf On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 8:53 AM, Eris Discordia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lack_of_aesthetical_refinement > > Bruce Ellis and Noah Evans, please populate the

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

Go and see a doctor then. What a silly guy, huh Noah? Perhaps he doesn't know what "perhaps" means. He certainly doesn't know jack about computer science. Dr Bruce Ellis Department of Conceptual Integrity University of Thessaly On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 4:53 PM, Eris Discordia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> w

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lack_of_aesthetical_refinement Bruce Ellis and Noah Evans, please populate the above stub. By the way, Bruce Ellis, do never ever recommend medication to anyone _even in jest_ without providing a visible discla

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

Noah is dangerously wise. Have you got rid of the smell of mackerel yet? Seriously Eris, you need a good hobby. And if I was your physician I would recommend medication. A SSRI or maybe a simple Benzo. Maybe twice a day, or when required. brucee On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 11:37 PM, Noah Evans <[EMAI

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 9:21 AM, Eris Discordia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Little troll, thy baiting f'r fray-- > My thoughtless passage has flushed away > Am not _I_ a troll like thee, > Or art not _thou_ a Goddess like me? > > Practice your

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

Little troll, thy baiting f'r fray-- My thoughtless passage has flushed away Am not _I_ a troll like thee, Or art not _thou_ a Goddess like me? Practice your technique, little troll, while you have time to do mischief under the Goddess' nose! --On Friday, November 07, 2008 6:07 PM -0800 Lyndon

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

I know one thing: every major operating system I have ever heard of leverages shared libraries. Can all those people be wrong? I don't think so. Eight billion Windows users can't be wrong. (Can they?)

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

Wow what a lively thread. Lots of good information (thanks Ron, Rob et al) and behavioural commentary (thanks Skip) but it seems to be of no avail. As I'm the only one awake in Volos at 10:30am and I have 40 cafes with WiFi to myself I'll waste bandwidth and tell a little story with no stated conc

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

Sorry, but "everyone does it" just doesn't hack it. Common-sensically it does, but if you say it doesn't I concede. not what I asked. It seems to answer your question by implying there's no question regarding the use or disuse of shared libraries only regarding the strategy (and that back

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

> Sorry, but "everyone does it" just doesn't hack it. also, "everyone does it" is an excuse that no one over the age 7 should use. imitating blindly -- a.k.a monkey-see-monkey-do (apologies to monkeys) -- seems to happen when we are unaware, undisciplined, lazy or panicked. it is how stampedes h

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

Thanks for the information. --On Wednesday, November 05, 2008 5:23 PM -0800 Rob Pike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: When Sun reported on their first implementation of shared libraries, the paper they presented (I think it was at Usenix) concluded that shared libraries made things bigger and slowe

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

Eris Discordia wrote: I know one thing I doubt that.

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

On Nov 5, 2008, at 2:13 PM, ron minnich wrote: On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 12:54 PM, Eris Discordia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: yes, I agree, I was being terribly unfair to plan 9. Acme on plan 9 is about 1/2 M. Vim on DOS is 3x larger? impressive. My intent was, of course, to show your comparison

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 6:48 PM, Eris Discordia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I know one thing: every major operating system I have ever heard of > leverages shared libraries. Can all those people be wrong? I don't think so. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

> File size can be less than memory size when you have data reserved but not > initialized. That happens in many cases, e.g. when you reserve a buffer. >> One benefit to declaring data in the bss section is that the data is not >> included in the executable program. When data is defined in the da

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

> I know one thing. Every major operating system in the late 1960s > "knew" that card image files were the way to go. Could all those > people be wrong? > > Yes. > > Sorry, but "everyone does it" just doesn't hack it. it's the chewbacca proof. - erik

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 4:45 PM, Eris Discordia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I know one thing: every major operating system I have ever heard of > leverages shared libraries. Can all those people be wrong? I don't think so. I know one thing. Every major operating system in the late 1960s "knew" th

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

When Sun reported on their first implementation of shared libraries, the paper they presented (I think it was at Usenix) concluded that shared libraries made things bigger and slower, that they were a net loss, and in fact that they didn't save much disk space either. The test case was Xlib, the b

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 5:53 PM, Eris Discordia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Please forgive the repeated messages. It didn't appear in my mail client's > Sent view after I hit send. Thought it might have been lost so I re-wrote > it. i expect you to start littering the web forums and mailing lists

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

Please forgive the repeated messages. It didn't appear in my mail client's Sent view after I hit send. Thought it might have been lost so I re-wrote it.

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

Sadly, the picture changes at run time: clock on plan 9 is 128k in memory, xclock is 4.2M RSS and 10M VSZ. Sic transit gloria .so. Of course, then we hear that "well, all that is shared". Hmm. Prove it. I know one thing: every major operating system I have ever heard of leverages shared librari

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

Sadly, the picture changes at run time: clock on plan 9 is 128k in memory, xclock is 4.2M RSS and 10M VSZ. Sic transit gloria .so. Of course, then we hear that "well, all that is shared". Hmm. Prove it. I know one thing: shared libraries are employed on every major operating system I have ever

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

Sadly, the picture changes at run time: clock on plan 9 is 128k in memory, xclock is 4.2M RSS and 10M VSZ. Sic transit gloria .so. Of course, then we hear that "well, all that is shared". Hmm. Prove it. I know one thing: every major operating system I have ever heard of leverages shared librari

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

>> less is more. > > If you say so, sir, it must be true. Is it also true that the less I > understand of your comment the more meaningful it becomes? > Judging by your posts, the less you know, the more meaningful you consider your opinion, so I'd agree with you here. John

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

> Is it also true that the less I > understand it's as if Choate's twin has come to visit.

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 12:54 PM, Eris Discordia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> yes, I agree, I was being terribly unfair to plan 9. Acme on plan 9 is >> about 1/2 M. Vim on DOS is 3x larger? impressive. > > My intent was, of course, to show your comparison is baseless. It seems you > still haven't r

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

less is more. If you say so, sir, it must be true. Is it also true that the less I understand of your comment the more meaningful it becomes? --On Wednesday, November 05, 2008 1:12 PM -0800 Rob Pike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: less is more. -rob

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

Eris, did you just post the following to slashdot? s/OpenBSD/Plan 9/;s/Theo/9whacko/ and we've got your entire posting history on this mailing list. the similarity is uncanny. I don't think the question is serious but I'm very bad at detecting sarcasm--too many false positives. So I'll provide

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

less is more. -rob

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

Eris, did you just post the following to slashdot? s/OpenBSD/Plan 9/;s/Theo/9whacko/ and we've got your entire posting history on this mailing list. the similarity is uncanny. "Yeah. I'd really like to like OpenBSD. Technically, it's superb. It's smooth, polished, well documented --- it's got a le

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

yes, I agree, I was being terribly unfair to plan 9. Acme on plan 9 is about 1/2 M. Vim on DOS is 3x larger? impressive. My intent was, of course, to show your comparison is baseless. It seems you still haven't realized that. You think Plan 9 is great? Sure you know a lot more about it than I

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

don't forgot that plan 9 binaries are fully linked while most other systems pull in more code through dynamic linking when the binary is executed. -rob

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 10:15 AM, ron minnich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 2:57 AM, Eris Discordia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~/clms]# ls -l `which vim` > > -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 1221212 Oct 15 2006 /usr/local/bin/vim > > > > > --

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 2:57 AM, Eris Discordia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~/clms]# ls -l `which vim` > -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 1221212 Oct 15 2006 /usr/local/bin/vim > > > > C:\Program Files (x8

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 4:34 PM, Abhishek Kulkarni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > term% cat pipeto.eris > /bin/upas/filter -h $1 $2 'From: "Eris Discordia"' /dev/null personally, i think eris makes a lot of reasonable points.

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

you may take this to comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy if you want. term% cat pipeto.eris /bin/upas/filter -h $1 $2 'From: "Eris Discordia"' /dev/null > > > I realize that is utterly unfair. Sort of. > > Nice of you to realize that. Sort of. > > --On Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:21 PM -0800 ron minnich

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

Why do gods that walk the earth invariably act like spoilt brats? Ah, hang on ... Prolly because a god is only a human's conceited ego. Oh, wait... --On Wednesday, November 05, 2008 10:55 AM + Robert Raschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 10:33 AM, Eris Discordia <[EM

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~/clms]# ls -l `which vim` -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 1221212 Oct 15 2006 /usr/local/bin/vim C:\Program Files (x86)\Vim\vim71>dir gvim.exe Volume in drive C has no label. Volume Serial Number is B

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 10:33 AM, Eris Discordia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Man's got to know his limitations. > > Yes, _man_ has got to. That doesn't apply to deities :-P Why do gods that walk the earth invariably act like spoilt brats? Ah, hang on ...

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

Man's got to know his limitations. Yes, _man_ has got to. That doesn't apply to deities :-P --On Tuesday, November 04, 2008 7:59 AM -0800 ron minnich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 7:06 AM, Eris Discordia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Attempts to live boot Plan 9 on the sa

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

And what is a 9whacko? Someone without a mirror? And not enough time to think?

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

And what is a 9whacko? I didn't see any at IWP9 but I didn't have a mirror. brucee On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 10:32 AM, Lyndon Nerenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> And who is this Eris dick? > > Just a simple first year regexp assignment. > > >

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

And who is this Eris dick? Just a simple first year regexp assignment.

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

grep whining /sys/games/lib/fortunes Why do I have to send this mail every year or so? And who is this Eris dick? brucee On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 5:59 PM, ron minnich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 7:06 AM, Eris Discordia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Attempts to live boot P

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

A standalone statically linked binary is going to be considerable larger while in flight over data links. But that static binary only flies once, geting sucked into memory with a (mostly) simple bcopy equiv at process launch time. Shared memory regimes thrash the living daylights out of MMUs a

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 9:17 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > A standalone statically linked binary is going to be considerable larger > while > in flight over data links. > ah yes well maybe. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/mtelnet> ls -l `which emacs` -rwxr-xr-t 1 root root 4587528 2006-06

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

On Nov 3, 2008, at 5:16 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A thought ... Shared libraries do 2 possibly useful things: 1) save space 2) stop you having to re-link when a new library is released. Now 2) doesn't really happen anyway, due to .so versioning hell, so we're left with 1) ... I know it's ki

Re: [9fans] mmap

On Nov 4, 2008, at 9:02 AM, ron minnich wrote: On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 11:15 PM, Andrew Simmons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I don't want to imply that Ron is quite such an old fart as me, but somehow I don't get the impression that he was a kid in 1981, when "Time Bandits" came out. Ron, if you

Re: [9fans] mmap

On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 8:43 PM, Enrico Weigelt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > * ron minnich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I wish I could remember. It had the usual guys in silvery suits. They > > walk through a frame and are back in time. Key point was, at the end, > > that they ended up escaping

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 7:06 AM, Eris Discordia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Attempts to live boot Plan 9 on the same machine fail because > some 9wacko believes CD-ROM drives must be secondary master or > something--and I won't move a jumper to suit a 9wacko's whim; not that I've > ever been asked

Re: [9fans] mmap

On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 11:15 PM, Andrew Simmons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I don't want to imply that Ron is quite such an old fart as me, but > somehow I don't get the impression that he was a kid in 1981, when > "Time Bandits" came out. Ron, if you could give some clue as to when > you saw the

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

I can run Plan 9 quite nicely in 128 MB of RAM. In the same amount of memory FreeBSD is paging nightmare, despite it's wonderfully complex shared library environment. You're wrong. Case in point: my FreeBSD 6.2-RELEASE installation on a 233 MHz PII (one of those Slot 1 processors) with 128 MB o

Re: [9fans] mmap

"time travel" plots reminds me of an obscure but splendid czech film that i've only seen once http://filmjournal.net/czech/2006/09/18/tomorrow-ill-wake-up-and-scald-myself-with-tea/ but have yet to find on DVD. it is very funny.

Re: [9fans] mmap

On Tue, 04 Nov 2008 20:15:04 +1300 "Andrew Simmons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I don't want to imply that Ron is quite such an old fart as me, but > somehow I don't get the impression that he was a kid in 1981, when > "Time Bandits" came out. Ron, if you could give some clue as to when > you saw

Re: [9fans] mmap

I don't want to imply that Ron is quite such an old fart as me, but somehow I don't get the impression that he was a kid in 1981, when "Time Bandits" came out. Ron, if you could give some clue as to when you saw the movie, I'm pretty sure that the group could mount a co-ordinated effort to identify

Re: [9fans] mmap

* ron minnich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I wish I could remember. It had the usual guys in silvery suits. They > walk through a frame and are back in time. Key point was, at the end, > that they ended up escaping but for reasons unknown, walking back > through the frame -- bad idea. Time bandit

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 07:16, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > A thought ... > > Shared libraries do 2 possibly useful things: > 1) save space > 2) stop you having to re-link when a new library is released. i can see how relinks are painful with gnu-style build systems where you need to run ./configu

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

A thought ... Shared libraries do 2 possibly useful things: 1) save space 2) stop you having to re-link when a new library is released. Now 2) doesn't really happen anyway, due to .so versioning hell, so we're left with 1) ... I can run Plan 9 quite nicely in 128 MB of RAM. In the same amount

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A thought ... Shared libraries do 2 possibly useful things: 1) save space 2) stop you having to re-link when a new library is released. Now 2) doesn't really happen anyway, due to .so versioning hell, so we're left with 1) ... I know it's kind-of hacky and unstructured

Re: [9fans] mmap and shared libraries

A thought ... Shared libraries do 2 possibly useful things: 1) save space 2) stop you having to re-link when a new library is released. Now 2) doesn't really happen anyway, due to .so versioning hell, so we're left with 1) ... I know it's kind-of hacky and unstructured (how do you know the vent

Re: [9fans] mmap

Is it worth adding that in Inferno all libraries are shared as is all of memory - seamlessly and safely? Always has been - always will be. And there is no bloody mmap() in sight. Also I believe that every bad science fiction movie is analogous to a computer science moral play. And the more the mo

Re: [9fans] mmap

On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 11:29 PM, Charles Forsyth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>I still remember this science fiction movie from when I was a kid. > > which one was that? it sounds more interesting than mmap. > > I wish I could remember. It had the usual guys in silvery suits. They walk through a fr

Re: [9fans] mmap

>I still remember this science fiction movie from when I was a kid. which one was that? it sounds more interesting than mmap.

Re: [9fans] mmap

>> But now I'm curious how executables and shared libraries are >> actually handled on plan9. >> >what's a shared library? even if plan 9 were to have them, and i were doing it, i don't think i'd implement them using mmap and trampolines.

Re: [9fans] mmap

On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 8:18 PM, Enrico Weigelt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > But now I'm curious how executables and shared libraries are > actually handled on plan9. > what's a shared library? Executables: /sys/src/9/ Check it out, it's short and sweet. ron

Re: [9fans] mmap

* erik quanstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > * Roman V. Shaposhnik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Wed, 2008-07-30 at 17:29 +0200, Enrico Weigelt wrote: > > > > Convenience is one point (sometimes be a big point), but another > > > > important one is sharing. Without mmap(), an (real) shared

Re: [9fans] mmap

On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 5:50 PM, erik quanstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> * Roman V. Shaposhnik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > On Wed, 2008-07-30 at 17:29 +0200, Enrico Weigelt wrote: >> > > Convenience is one point (sometimes be a big point), but another >> > > important one is sharing. Withou

Re: [9fans] mmap

> * Roman V. Shaposhnik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Wed, 2008-07-30 at 17:29 +0200, Enrico Weigelt wrote: > > > Convenience is one point (sometimes be a big point), but another > > > important one is sharing. Without mmap(), an (real) shared library > > > support most likely will require spec

Re: [9fans] mmap

* Roman V. Shaposhnik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 2008-07-30 at 17:29 +0200, Enrico Weigelt wrote: > > Convenience is one point (sometimes be a big point), but another > > important one is sharing. Without mmap(), an (real) shared library > > support most likely will require special kernel

Re: [9fans] mmap

> Ambric is > pretty well aware of what the transputer did. Glad to hear it - there were some good ideas behind the transputer which are worth recycling. From your description it sounds like the ambric has some interesting new refinements as well.

Re: [9fans] mmap

On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 6:22 AM, Richard Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> has hardware channels. And you can >> call from channel >> and execute code being sent down a channel to you from another cpu. > ... >> it's a very interesting architecture, to say the least. For me anyway >> the most nove

Re: [9fans] mmap

> has hardware channels. And you can > call from channel > and execute code being sent down a channel to you from another cpu. ... > it's a very interesting architecture, to say the least. For me anyway > the most novel thing I've seen in a while. Interesting but not novel. Remember the transpute

Re: [9fans] mmap

On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 5:32 PM, ron minnich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > here is a thought: > > the kernel does mmap for code/data. This is because we think of a file > as a segment of data that somehow maps well to a segment of memory. > > You wouldn't execute code from a stream, now, would you?

Re: [9fans] mmap

here is a thought: the kernel does mmap for code/data. This is because we think of a file as a segment of data that somehow maps well to a segment of memory. You wouldn't execute code from a stream, now, would you? Well, this: http://www.ambric.com/ has hardware channels. And you can call from

Re: [9fans] mmap

On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:39:43 BST Charles Forsyth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Does anyone have pointers to *nice* interfaces for doing this? I don't > > care which OS, but I'd like to not have the implementation I'm > > requesting suck because I missed some gotchas that someone else already h

Re: [9fans] mmap

> Does anyone have pointers to *nice* interfaces for doing this? I don't > care which OS, but I'd like to not have the implementation I'm > requesting suck because I missed some gotchas that someone else already hit. paul lalonde's request is a good one, but i think a useful qualification is th

Re: [9fans] mmap

On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 18:36, Roman V. Shaposhnik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > As Russ, quite rightfully, pointed out: mmap() means different things > to different people. The tragic part is, that it tries to do lots of > things but it doesn't do anything particularly well. Personally, my > experi

Re: [9fans] mmap

On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 12:25 PM, Joel C. Salomon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I forget who said it, Found it in : On Tue, 13 Aug 2002 07:43:45 -0400, David Gordon Hogan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On freebsd and Linux, exec happens via an mmap (more or l

Re: [9fans] mmap

> > I forget who said it, and the local firewall won't allow me to search > > the online copy of /sys/games/lib/fortunes, but there should be a line > > there about Linux having 200+ system calls, most of them emulatable > > with mmap(). > > > what nonsense is that? /sys/games/lib/fortunes:4184

Re: [9fans] mmap

Joel C. Salomon wrote: On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 11:29 AM, Enrico Weigelt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Convenience is one point (sometimes be a big point), but another important one is sharing. Without mmap(), an (real) shared library support most likely will require special kernel support.

Re: [9fans] mmap

Roman V. Shaposhnik wrote: Personally, my experience of trying to use mmap() as a useful abstraction for the CPU's MMU was the last straw. It can't do even that reliably and in a portable fashion. Not to digress, but I was even more surprised to learn that there's not a single API on UNIX that ca

Re: [9fans] mmap

On Tue, 2008-07-29 at 12:28 -0400, Venkatesh Srinivas wrote: > As far as interfaces go, mmap() is pretty tragic - the underlying > translation structures can express more interesting things, some of > which are even worth doing. I can't agree more. The way I look at it is that mmap() seems to be t

Re: [9fans] mmap

On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 11:29 AM, Enrico Weigelt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Convenience is one point (sometimes be a big point), but another > important one is sharing. Without mmap(), an (real) shared library > support most likely will require special kernel support. Actually, almost any kernel

Re: [9fans] mmap

On Wed, 2008-07-30 at 17:29 +0200, Enrico Weigelt wrote: > Convenience is one point (sometimes be a big point), but another > important one is sharing. Without mmap(), an (real) shared library > support most likely will require special kernel support. What aspect of shared libraries are you aching

Re: [9fans] mmap

* Venkatesh Srinivas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ... redirecting back to 9fans ;-P > As far as interfaces go, mmap() is pretty tragic - the underlying > translation structures can express more interesting things, some of > which are even worth doing. Well, the biggest problem, IMHO are the incomp

Re: [9fans] mmap

> i think that's right, and that's the interesting case to investigate provided, of course, that you're interested in the applications that might use it. otherwise it will just complicate things to no good effect.

Re: [9fans] mmap

> As far as interfaces go, mmap() is pretty tragic - the underlying > translation structures can express more interesting things, some of > which are even worth doing. > There have even been OSes that let userland apps play with their address > spaces in far more interesting ways i think that's r

Re: [9fans] mmap

As far as interfaces go, mmap() is pretty tragic - the underlying translation structures can express more interesting things, some of which are even worth doing. There have even been OSes that let userland apps play with their address spaces in far more interesting ways - KeyKOS and EROS come to

Re: [9fans] mmap

ron minnich wrote: On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 8:19 AM, erik quanstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: you can't make the assumption that a file is local in *ix, either. in fact, for the last 20 years, every program run on a sunos/solaris machine has used mmap for the exec. mmap() is every

Re: [9fans] mmap

On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 8:04 AM, Alexander Sychev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 12:52:14 +0400, Enrico Weigelt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > Hi! > > an full mmap() is a really nice thing. It can make a lot things >> easier if you just map the whole file into the process' memo

Re: [9fans] mmap

On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 8:19 AM, erik quanstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > you can't make the assumption that a file is local in *ix, either. > in fact, for the last 20 years, every program run on a sunos/solaris machine has used mmap for the exec. ron

Re: [9fans] mmap

> Yes, it is comfortable. where's jim when you need him? > But just think a bit - what will you do in the > mmap implementation when you had mapped a remote file (in Plan9 you can't > be sure some file is local or it is really just a file), and the > connection has just been broken? Surpri

Re: [9fans] mmap

On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 12:52:14 +0400, Enrico Weigelt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi! an full mmap() is a really nice thing. It can make a lot things easier if you just map the whole file into the process' memory and let the kernel handle the actual IO. Yes, it is comfortable. But just think a

Re: [9fans] mmap

> It can make a lot things > easier if you just map the whole file into the process' memory and > let the kernel handle the actual IO. the word "superficially" should be in there somewhere.

Re: [9fans] mmap

* Russ Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi, I don't know much of native plan9 (only using plan9port), but IMHO an full mmap() is a really nice thing. It can make a lot things easier if you just map the whole file into the process' memory and let the kernel handle the actual IO. Some time ago I

Re: [9fans] mmap

> in a traditional full-featured mmap i've noticed that some combinations of words are scarier than others. ☺ - erik

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