Octopus sessions persist by definition as long as you do not
reboot your central PC. All other machines are used to run viewers, but
the layout is preserved by the (window) file system kept at the PC.
Also, you may use tar to capture (most of) the window system state
and restore it later (eg.,
People do acknowledge the new free systems. Unfortunately, RMS got
them off it in a microsecond when 3e came out:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/plan-nine.html
And I don't believe the Note at the top will change people's minds.
And even if we do manage to make people remember Plan 9, we live
- Modify the kernel (it is based on Unix - even Microsoft says so)
- Learn how Cygwin does it
- Don't use real processes, like in Inferno
On Jun 30, 2008, at 8:34 AM, Steve Simon wrote:
Apparently, after a fork, a child retains it's parent's
pid in _tos-pid.
I think this is at the root of
Apparently, after a fork, a child retains it's parent's
pid in _tos-pid.
I think this is at the root of why 9vx cannot run on MS-Windows.
No, it's not. The words fork and pid in that sentence
are concepts completely internal to 9vx. The host OS,
be it OS X or Linux or Windows, has
Pietro Gagliardi schrieb:
If people say Plan 9 is too hard to use they will allocate blame to
Rob Pike's rio before reading his tirade on other windowing systems
(which you can find at http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/doc/88/1-07.ps.gz).
With this link ione only gets the starting page of the
Pietro Gagliardi schrieb:
People do acknowledge the new free systems. Unfortunately, RMS got
them off it in a microsecond when 3e came out:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/plan-nine.html
And I don't believe the Note at the top will change people's minds.
Wikipedia says:
License
The full
anyway, i might have missed a report about this
from someone else, but does anyone else
find that when doing a longish mk, the terminal
output will occasionally freeze, but is brought
back very quickly by interacting with the mouse in the window (sometimes
it seems to need an actual click,
Pietro Gagliardi schrieb:
If people say Plan 9 is too hard to use they will allocate blame to
Rob Pike's rio before reading his tirade on other windowing systems
(which you can find at http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/doc/88/1-07.ps.gz).
With this link ione only gets the starting page of the
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
Pietro Gagliardi schrieb:
If people say Plan 9 is too hard to use they will allocate blame to
Rob Pike's rio before reading his tirade on other windowing systems
(which you can find at http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/doc/88/1-07.ps.gz).
With this link ione
is not available under Plan 9. (Or is it?) As there is no simple
introduction to Plan 9 new users will just go the easy way and get
Windows or Linux.
lack of an introduction is not the problem. not being unix
is the problem.
For example the
role of make as an equivalent for cc is not
Pietro Gagliardi wrote:
- Modify the kernel (it is based on Unix - even Microsoft says so)
Sure it is...in the same way that VMS is based on UNIX (which means not
at all)
For example the
role of make as an equivalent for cc is not self-evident for a
traditional normal OS-user.
come again?
i thought it meant that he always types in cc commands on unix.
of course you could do that too with 8c/8l but normally on plan 9 i
create a mkfile except for the tiniest
On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 10:12 PM, erik quanstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
there's not access to the network device per ce, but the network works
fine for me. this is what i needed to do to connect to plan 9
networks
1. edit /lib/ndb/auth and /lib/ndb/local as appropriate.
2.
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 6:49 AM, Russ Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
anyway, i might have missed a report about this
from someone else, but does anyone else
find that when doing a longish mk, the terminal
output will occasionally freeze, but is brought
back very quickly by interacting
My caps lock problem is gone with this! Thanks Russ (nevermind my other
message regarding it still starting in X11... I'm extra-scatterbrained
today)
Dave
On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 10:00 AM, Russ Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have not bothered to create a new package,
but there is a new binary
Same recipe works here. But I've no idea why the rm /net/cs is
necessary - can anyone put me out of my misery?
There are a bunch of rough edges that need to be fixed.
This is one of them. 9vx provides a #I/cs so that you
can do things like hget without starting cs. But it can't
translate auth
It's more fun to use 9vx in the fullscreen mode to get a complete
Plan9 experience.
Press F11 to toggle fullscreen mode.
Patch attached.
Thanks for 9vx. It makes things a lot easier :)
-- Abhishek
diff -r 9007574b0ca2 src/9vx/x11/x11-kernel.c
--- a/src/9vx/x11/x11-kernel.c Sun Jun 29
now that you've explained the cs issue things are much clearer. i can
confirm that I have successfully booted a 9vx terminal off a remote
plan9 server using a small modification to factotum.
the original boot process failed with:
password:
!
authentication failed (auth_proxy rpc write: bootes:
on .10, I can run venti/venti. on .11, it locks up 9vx quite
thoroughly after it prints init If you resize the window it is
filled with garbage. Under strace I can see it taking the timer
interrupts.
Linux xcpu 2.6.25 #6 SMP Tue May 27 09:46:16 PDT 2008 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
Sorry I don't
now compile 8.factotum and copy it as 9vx/src/9vx/factotum.9 and recompile
9vx.
err, make that vx32/src/9vx/factotum.9. i'm compiling against the
latest mercurial, but there's not reason why it shouldn't just work
with .11 and .10
erik quanstrom wrote:
is not available under Plan 9. (Or is it?) As there is no simple
introduction to Plan 9 new users will just go the easy way and get
Windows or Linux.
lack of an introduction is not the problem. not being unix
is the problem.
Looking too much like UNIX while acting
On Jun 30, 2008, at 9:48 AM, bblochl wrote:
Pietro Gagliardi schrieb:
If people say Plan 9 is too hard to use they will allocate blame
to Rob Pike's rio before reading his tirade on other windowing
systems (which you can find at http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/doc/88/1-07.ps.gz)
.
With this
RMS has the power to turn people away from bad technology. Remember
that now.
On Jun 30, 2008, at 9:46 AM, bblochl wrote:
Pietro Gagliardi schrieb:
People do acknowledge the new free systems. Unfortunately, RMS got
them off it in a microsecond when 3e came out:
On Jun 30, 2008, at 10:07 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Are we talking about the same thing? Pietro's link is for an old
paper by Rob Pike talking about the mux windowing system. There
aren't really any examples.
Much of the paper still applies to rio. From mux to rio few changes
were
on .10, I can run venti/venti. on .11, it locks up 9vx quite
thoroughly after it prints init If you resize the window it is
filled with garbage. Under strace I can see it taking the timer
interrupts.
Linux xcpu 2.6.25 #6 SMP Tue May 27 09:46:16 PDT 2008 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
Sorry
On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 7:21 PM, erik quanstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
this slashdot article almost asks for cpu
functionality for plan 9 by name.
actually, this the scenario for which we designed xcpu, almost exactly.
Mount, start up, disconnect, come back later ... I've used it this way.
It's more fun to use 9vx in the fullscreen mode to get a complete
Plan9 experience.
Press F11 to toggle fullscreen mode.
Patch attached.
Checked F11 code into hg. Instead of sending the window
manager a make me fullscreen request like your code did,
the code I added (taken from p9p) just
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 10:33 AM, Russ Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If you invoke it with the -A flag, then it will go into a
sleep loop on panic (-A stands for abort, but that didn't
work very well on OS X). You can then attach with gdb
and get a stack trace or look at what the other
Hello,
I have a WYSE Winterm 9150SE [1]. It is a terminal
running a AMD Geode GX processor, with 256MB of RAM.
It is meant to run Windows XP Embedded, wich is located
into a 256MB ROM, but it can also boot from network
via PXE.
Using PXE, I am successfully running a Plan 9 terminal
to my Plan 9
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 3:15 PM, Iruata Souza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Tim Wiess [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If you can wait a couple days I'll have some time later in the
week to port this over to OpenBSD.
I'm currently trying to get 9vx work on OpenBSD-4.3
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Tim Wiess [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If you can wait a couple days I'll have some time later in the
week to port this over to OpenBSD.
I'm currently trying to get 9vx work on OpenBSD-4.3 (i386, 750Mhz,
256MB RAM), but each time I want to start 9vx I get the
Thanks for your fast replies.
I can't help you coding/porting but if you need some help for testing,
drop me a line.
Thanks,
Malik
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Tim Wiess [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If you can wait a couple days I'll have some time later in the
week to port this over to OpenBSD.
I'm currently trying to get 9vx work on OpenBSD-4.3 (i386, 750Mhz,
256MB RAM), but each time I want to start 9vx I get the
This is a very good point. I mostly learned Unix in a corporate
environment, but the same logic holds: somebody else had set
up and maintained the systems.
// I'm afraid there's not much we can do about this.
Other, obviously, than getting uni types to use it there. Plan 9
(like Inferno) has
I have not even started such thing, but, if you go for it and want help,
count me in :)
I've been thinking of writing a Plan 9 for Dummies style thing;
Nemo's book is excellent but definitely aimed at someone most
interested in writing code immediately. Basically stealing the format
from
Does it work to set csremoved=1 in src/9vx/devip.c instead?
I can confirm that this works, with the benefit of using secstore
instead of prompting for my password.
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Francisco J Ballesteros [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I have not even started such thing, but, if you go for it and want help,
count me in :)
And I would read it! :)
--
Tom Lieber
http://AllTom.com/
Does it work to set csremoved=1 in src/9vx/devip.c instead?
I can confirm that this works, with the benefit of using secstore
instead of prompting for my password.
Okay, done. Thanks.
Russ
Hi 9fans,
I'm writing this in an open letter style because I find eric's original
post and the follow-up quite on-topic with respect to my unsuccessful
Plan 9 experience. To provide context, let me describe myself as a serious
hobbyist, which means I know my way around Windows and at least 2
well, Eris, it is quite possible that you're right. It is also
possible that you never quite got it.
Or both are possible.
ron
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 2:12 PM, Eris Discordia
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Fossil/Venti, however brilliant it may look like to the code junkie, does
not offer anything for me but added complexity.
i'm using p9p venti on linux, and it's been a total breeze to
configure and administer. the utility
Plan 9 neither fulfills
previous functions nor defines new ones for any end user or even
hobbyist, except perhaps the most sturdy of them.
this blog-style opinion piece does not offer anything constructive.
for example, would utf-8 qualify as a functionality that didn't exist
before plan9?
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 3:42 PM, Skip Tavakkolian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
P.S. Heck, this is some sad commentary.
what's sad is that unless there's a dummy's guide to
something, that something is not considered a success.
Its worse than that Skip -- I imagine many would rank Apple's time
I just pulled the hg and built 9vx from sources.
venti copy has not died yet. :-)
ron
Besides, isn't not being UNIX one of the prominent features of Plan 9?
tautology, no? to be plan 9 it must be different. if it were not, it would be
unix.
- erik
crap methodology versus doing something clever under the hood. You
can't be a success unless you have an animated 3D GUI consuming most
of your CPU resources and expending all sorts of power.
That couldn't be farther from truth, at least in my case. No one wants to
waste their computer's time
this blog-style opinion piece does not offer anything constructive.
for example, would utf-8 qualify as a functionality that didn't exist
before plan9?
The fact the UTF-8 was first implemented on Plan 9 has nothing to do with
Plan 9's funtionality as an OS. Similarly, the fact that Windows is
Not a very kind comment. Though, it is possible that it's true.
What was there for me to understand about Plan 9 that I did not? Barring a
mystical bond with its exquisite kernel, of course.
--On Monday, June 30, 2008 1:01 PM -0700 ron minnich [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
well, Eris, it is
The fact the UTF-8 was first implemented on Plan 9 has nothing
to do with Plan 9's funtionality as an OS.
Not true. The ability to adapt the system quickly in response to a
changing standards situation made a critical difference in having
UTF-8 rather than a weaker proposal accepted by X/Open
The fact the UTF-8 was first implemented on Plan 9 has nothing to do with
Plan 9's funtionality as an OS.
it seems like you are avoiding the point on purpose.
i don't think you can pick up a kernel with tweezers and make
a bunch of abstract statements about it. and so i think the fact
that
On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 12:32 AM, Eris Discordia
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
crap methodology versus doing something clever under the hood. You
can't be a success unless you have an animated 3D GUI consuming most
of your CPU resources and expending all sorts of power.
That couldn't be farther
Its worse than that Skip -- I imagine many would rank Apple's time
machine greater than venti just because it puts a pretty GUI on top of
crap methodology versus doing something clever under the hood.
Pretty GUI doesn't hurt but it is the ease of use that makes
time machine popular. Kudos to
// Systems research? Did you actually research how a normal user used their
// computer? Did you even try to guess how a normal user used their system?
// Did you do that and end up with a technical manual whose prime example for
// backup strategy involves a Jukebox?
You clearly have a very
By the way, I provided a description of my person to avoid dummy labels.
I may well be a dummy in your league but that doesn't mean I'm unable of
reading a normal technical manual. I can do and have done that, on Linux,
FreeBSD, and Plan 9.
you've missed my point. most of the dummies
Most people just want to use a
computer, not learn all about it (just as they want to drive
a car and not look under the hood).
And Windows is the Chevrolet|Ford|Toyota|\* for the common man.
We are not the common man. Buy a bus pass and push off.
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 6:20 PM, Eris Discordia
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Barring a mystical bond with its exquisite kernel, of course.
it seems you have done much kernel programming, eh?
iru
Plan 9 is not for end users. Plan 9 is for programmers.
--
Federico G. Benavento
On Jun 30, 2008, at 1:34 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Now, before I set quill to parchment (or fingers to keyboard as may
be), has anyone else started something like this?
I was planning on doing something of the sort...
On Jun 30, 2008, at 5:46 PM, erik quanstrom wrote:
this guide was
I added devsd and wrote an sd loopback yesterday afternoon.
It worked pretty well except that when I ran fdisk,
/dev/sd00/data disappeared. I was going to debug that
before saying anything.
Here's the fix for the fdisk problem:
/sys/src/cmd/disk/prep/edit.c:503,508 - edit.c:503,509
I have Ubuntu on a VPS (on Xen) and I'd like to install a Plan 9
server using 9vx. 9vx tip compiles, but segfaults after the 256M
memory line (as does the precompiled binary, in the same place). I am
tunneling to local X11 on OS X 10.5.3.
I don't know how to debug this properly, but here is gdb
Hello. I found a few fonts from /lib/font (Courier, for aesthetic
reasons, and erik's vera, for its complete Unicode conformance) that
I'd like to make available to troff. Is there any way to do this? I'll
name the files myself (Other-Courier and Bitstream-Vera, perhaps).
Thanks.
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