Re: An HTML Announcement of perl-5.12.0 on The Perl Foundation Blog
On Apr 28, 2010, at 11:30 AM, Shlomi Fish wrote: I converted it to XHTML using HTML tidy and some manual tweaks. Please reuse it on blogs. Done and published to Perlbuzz. Thanks! http://perlbuzz.com/2010/04/perl-512-released-perl-5-under-new-release-process.html xoxo, Andy -- Andy Lester = a...@petdance.com = www.theworkinggeek.com = AIM:petdance
Re: An HTML Announcement of perl-5.12.0 on The Perl Foundation Blog
On 04/25/2010 04:44 PM, Eric Brine wrote: On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 2:42 PM, Mark Mielke m...@mark.mielke.cc mailto:m...@mark.mielke.cc wrote: Closing tags gives the processor more explicit instructions on how to deal with ambiguities There are no ambiguities in valid HTML. There are no ambiguities in any language, but we still use () to help the people who are trying to read it, and if it is *not* valid HTML, having the explicit instructions certainly makes it easier to debug... The combined open close tags such as hr/ should be used with a space before the / to make sure it works on old and new browsers. Try: hr / That's not valid HTML. What is invalid about it? The / gets interpretted as an unrecognized attribute. Do you mean formal HTML without support for extensions via new attributes? Which HTML or XHTML parsers do you know that will break with hr /? Again, it's just a good practice. No, using invalid HTML is not good practice. There's no reason to do it, and the only possibly effect is to create errors. If you're writing HTML, write HTML. If you're writing XHTML, write XHTML. This is a matter of interpretation. I don't see any problem with writing code that is both valid XHTML and valid HTML. But if you don't, I won't try to further convince you... Cheers, mark
Re: An HTML Announcement of perl-5.12.0 on The Perl Foundation Blog
On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 3:44 PM, Eric Brine ikeg...@adaelis.com wrote: On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 2:42 PM, Mark Mielke m...@mark.mielke.cc wrote: Closing tags gives the processor more explicit instructions on how to deal with ambiguities If you're writing HTML, write HTML. If you're writing XHTML, write XHTML. I wonder if there is a better forum than p5p for expressing disapproval about people using the wrong markup languages and using them wrongly. No, on second thought, that's probably not a useful discussion anywhere. Meanwhile, despite the nightmarish corruption of the data stream with end tags (or their absence), most browsers can apparently process the numerous on-line mentions of the 5.12.0 release, which is good news for anyone interested in Perl.
Re: An HTML Announcement of perl-5.12.0 on The Perl Foundation Blog
On 25 April 2010 22:53, Mark Mielke m...@mark.mielke.cc wrote: On 04/25/2010 04:44 PM, Eric Brine wrote: The combined open close tags such as hr/ should be used with a space before the / to make sure it works on old and new browsers. Try: hr / That's not valid HTML. What is invalid about it? The / gets interpretted as an unrecognized attribute. Do you mean formal HTML without support for extensions via new attributes? Which HTML or XHTML parsers do you know that will break with hr /? Does the w3 validator count? The HTML strict validator treats hr / as an error: http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.doc.ic.ac.uk%2F~pgp%2Fwrong-s.html The HTML transitional validator throws up a warning for hr /: http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.doc.ic.ac.uk%2F~pgp%2Fwrong-t.html The reason is explained here: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html/empty.html tl;dr version: hr / in HTML means hr -- that is, an hr tag followed by a greater-than sign. Almost no browser displays it this way; but HTML validators *do* interpret it this way. If anything, using hr/ to mean hr is a nonstandard but common extension. I'm not sure if hr/ will induce quirks mode in browsers. Phil
Re: An HTML Announcement of perl-5.12.0 on The Perl Foundation Blog
Interesting on exactly why hr / shows up as invalid in validators. Apparently I and most browser writes never learned about the SGML short tag capability. Perhaps, because we always thought of HTML as something that was *like* SGML, but definitely not actual SGML. :-) I think it is a bit odd to have the validator implement different rules than common browsers. Not sure which is wrong or how to fix this... I think I'll still use hr /, as it works as intended. It is valid XHTML, which means it works in new browsers with the right headers, and it is valid HTML in old browsers (whether they are spec compliant or not). Thanks for the reference though - it was worth the read. Cheers, mark On 04/26/2010 04:13 AM, Philip Potter wrote: On 25 April 2010 22:53, Mark Mielkem...@mark.mielke.cc wrote: On 04/25/2010 04:44 PM, Eric Brine wrote: The combined open close tags such ashr/ should be used with a space before the / to make sure it works on old and new browsers. Try:hr / That's not valid HTML. What is invalid about it? The / gets interpretted as an unrecognized attribute. Do you mean formal HTML without support for extensions via new attributes? Which HTML or XHTML parsers do you know that will break withhr /? Does the w3 validator count? The HTML strict validator treatshr / as an error: http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.doc.ic.ac.uk%2F~pgp%2Fwrong-s.html The HTML transitional validator throws up a warning forhr /: http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.doc.ic.ac.uk%2F~pgp%2Fwrong-t.html The reason is explained here: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html/empty.html tl;dr version:hr / in HTML meanshr -- that is, anhr tag followed by a greater-than sign. Almost no browser displays it this way; but HTML validators *do* interpret it this way. If anything, usinghr/ to meanhr is a nonstandard but common extension. I'm not sure ifhr/ will induce quirks mode in browsers. Phil
Re: An HTML Announcement of perl-5.12.0 on The Perl Foundation Blog
On 04/23/2010 05:26 PM, Eric Brine wrote: On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Shlomi Fishshlo...@iglu.org.il wrote: I'm not sure even HTML 4.0 still allows stray opening tags (such asp or td or whatever). stray? It most definitely allows the end tag to be omitted for certain elements. (Of those elements, I used P, LI, TBODY, TR and TD) . It even allows the opening tags of certain elements to be omitted. (Those elements are HTML, HEAD, BODY, TBODY and no other.) Allow, but not necessarily recommend or advocate. Closing tags gives the processor more explicit instructions on how to deal with ambiguities, and let's the code be checked for good form. I close all my tags as a matter of principle. Unless there is some harm in doing so - I think it is a good practice. In fact, I couldn't make it make it compliant with both HTML and XHTML because I used HR. What is HR in this context? The HR element. Valid Valid HTML XHTML - - - hr yesno hr/no yes hr/hrno yes The combined open close tags such as hr/ should be used with a space before the / to make sure it works on old and new browsers. Try: hr / Again, it's just a good practice. Cheers, mark
Re: An HTML Announcement of perl-5.12.0 on The Perl Foundation Blog
On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Shlomi Fish shlo...@iglu.org.il wrote: On Friday 23 Apr 2010 18:40:38 Eric Brine wrote: On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 5:49 AM, Shlomi Fish shlo...@iglu.org.il wrote: Thanks for providing it. However, it is not XHTML/XML-compliant Correct, HTML is not compatible with XHTML. I'm not sure even HTML 4.0 still allows stray opening tags (such as p or td or whatever). stray? It most definitely allows the end tag to be omitted for certain elements. (Of those elements, I used P, LI, TBODY, TR and TD) . It even allows the opening tags of certain elements to be omitted. (Those elements are HTML, HEAD, BODY, TBODY and no other.) In fact, I couldn't make it make it compliant with both HTML and XHTML because I used HR. What is HR in this context? The HR element. Valid Valid HTML XHTML - - - hryesno hr/ no yes hr/hr no yes Is this HTML required by Perlmonks, or did you write it like that out of a different reason? this HTML? I meant HTML like the one you've written (see above). I mean I don't know why you asked Is this HTML required ... instead of just Is HTML required Without that information, I can't answer your question. Could explain what aspect of the HTML I posted that you are asking about? If you're asking why I didn't include the optional tags, it's because it would be a waste of time. - Eric
Re: An HTML Announcement of perl-5.12.0 on The Perl Foundation Blog
On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 12:53 PM, Shlomi Fish shlo...@iglu.org.il wrote: Hi all! So far the only announcement of perl-5.12.0 has been to the perl5-porters mailing as plaintext E-mail. It was copied in LWN.net: http://lwn.net/Articles/383203/ But it's still mostly plaintext there. A Google search for perl-5.12.0 yields no good result for an HTML announcement. I think we should announce it by formatting it into HTML and publish it on the TPF (= Perl Foundation) blog. True to my words that Don't whine unless you are going to implement it yourself. (see http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/osp_rules.html), I am willing to do most of the work, but I'll need to know the desired format in advance and some people will have to proofread my copy. I HTMLised the announcements when I post them to PerlMonks. http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=834384 The HTML is: pPerl 5.12.0 has been released! pRelease notes follow. hr table border=1 trtdFromtdJesse Vincent trtdtotdperl5-port...@perl.org trtdDatetdMon, 12 Apr 2010 22:28:04 -0400 trtdSubjecttdPerl 5.12.0 is now available /table blockquote p'Please would you tell me,' said Alice, a little timidly, for she was not quite sure whether it was good manners for her to speak first, 'why your cat grins like that?' p'It's a Cheshire cat,' said the Duchess, 'and that's why. Pig!' pShe said the last word with such sudden violence that Alice quite jumped; but she saw in another moment that it was addressed to the baby, and not to her, so she took courage, and went on again:-- p'I didn't know that Cheshire cats always grinned; in fact, I didn't know that cats COULD grin.' p'They all can,' said the Duchess; 'and most of 'em do.' p align=right-- Lewis Carroll, /Alice's Adventures in Wonderland/ /blockquote pOn behalf of Perl's development team, It gives me great pleasure to announce the release of Perl 5.12.0. pPerl 5.12.0 represents approximately two years of development since version 5.10.0 and contains over 750,000 lines of changes across over 3,000 files from over 200 authors and committers. pSHA-1 signatures for this release: blockquotepre f533687077e2da113b48a6c5e578f4a206fbf173 perl-5.12.0.tar.bz2 5341e60d099fdda71bc33b2a36e417fc0926518f perl-5.12.0.tar.gz /pre/blockquote You can download this release from your nearest CPAN mirror or from: blockquotepa href=http://search.cpan.org/dist/perl-5.12.0/; http://search.cpan.org/dist/perl-5.12.0//a/blockquote pThis release cycle marks a change to a time-based release process. Beginning with version 5.11.0, we make a new development release of Perl available on the 20th of each month. Each spring, we will release a new stable version of Perl. One month later, we will make a minor update to deal with any issues discovered after the initial .0 release. Future releases in the stable series will follow quarterly. In contrast to releases of Perl, maintenance releases will contain fixes for issues discovered after the .0 release, but will not include new features or behavior. pNotable changes in Perl 5.12 include: ul li pPerl now conforms much more closely to the Unicode standard. Additionally, this release includes an upgrade to version 5.2 of the standard. li pNew experimental APIs allow developers to extend Perl with pluggable keywords and syntax. li pPerl now has a better sense of time and will be able to keep accurate time well past the Y2038 barrier. li pNew syntax allows developers to specify package version numbers directly in package statements li pPerl now warns the user about the use of deprecated features by default. /ul pPerl 5.12.0 features numerous new features, optimizations and bugfixes. You can find a complete list of these changes on the web at: blockquotea href= http://search.cpan.org/~jesse/perl-5.12.0/pod/perl5120delta.pod; http://search.cpan.org/~jesse/perl-5.12.0/pod/perl5120delta.pod /a/blockquote pAs specified in the licenses for Perl (see the files named Artistic or Copying in the Perl distribution), THIS PACKAGE IS PROVIDED WITH ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY. pBased on extensive testing over the past 3 months, we believe that Perl 5.12.0 is ready for production deployments. However, you should never blindly trust any software vendor. It is imperative that you test new software before deploying it in production. pWhile we have worked tirelessly to ensure that Perl 5.12.0 will be a solid platform for your software, it's possible that issues will be found after release day. You can find a current list of known issues with Perl 5.12.0 at a href=http://dev.perl.org/perl5/errata.html; http://dev.perl.org/perl5/errata.html/a pPerl continues to flourish into its third decade thanks to a vibrant community of users and developers. The following people are known to have contributed the improvements that became Perl 5.12.0: pAaron Crane, Abe Timmerman, Abhijit Menon-Sen, Abigail, Adam Russell, Adriano Ferreira, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason, Alan Grover, Alexandr Ciornii,
Re: An HTML Announcement of perl-5.12.0 on The Perl Foundation Blog
On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 5:49 AM, Shlomi Fish shlo...@iglu.org.il wrote: Thanks for providing it. However, it is not XHTML/XML-compliant Correct, HTML is not compatible with XHTML. In fact, I couldn't make it make it compliant with both HTML and XHTML because I used HR. Is this HTML required by Perlmonks, or did you write it like that out of a different reason? this HTML?
Re: An HTML Announcement of perl-5.12.0 on The Perl Foundation Blog
On Thu, 2010-04-22 at 19:53 +0300, Shlomi Fish wrote: Hi all! So far the only announcement of perl-5.12.0 has been to the perl5-porters mailing as plaintext E-mail. It was copied in LWN.net: http://lwn.net/Articles/383203/ Also here: http://perlisalive.com/articles/42 Regards, Denny signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: An HTML Announcement of perl-5.12.0 on The Perl Foundation Blog
Hi Eric, On Thursday 22 Apr 2010 20:14:49 Eric Brine wrote: On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 12:53 PM, Shlomi Fish shlo...@iglu.org.il wrote: Hi all! So far the only announcement of perl-5.12.0 has been to the perl5-porters mailing as plaintext E-mail. It was copied in LWN.net: http://lwn.net/Articles/383203/ But it's still mostly plaintext there. A Google search for perl-5.12.0 yields no good result for an HTML announcement. I think we should announce it by formatting it into HTML and publish it on the TPF (= Perl Foundation) blog. True to my words that Don't whine unless you are going to implement it yourself. (see http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/osp_rules.html), I am willing to do most of the work, but I'll need to know the desired format in advance and some people will have to proofread my copy. I HTMLised the announcements when I post them to PerlMonks. http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=834384 Nice. The HTML is: Thanks for providing it. However, it is not XHTML/XML-compliant and so will require some work. Still may be better than nothing. Maybe HTML tidy will be able to easily whip it up to shape. Is this HTML required by Perlmonks, or did you write it like that out of a different reason? Regards, -- Shlomi Fish [SNIP HTML] -- - Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ What does Zionism mean? - http://shlom.in/def-zionism Deletionists delete Wikipedia articles that they consider lame. Chuck Norris deletes deletionists whom he considers lame. Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
Re: An HTML Announcement of perl-5.12.0 on The Perl Foundation Blog
On Friday 23 Apr 2010 18:40:38 Eric Brine wrote: On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 5:49 AM, Shlomi Fish shlo...@iglu.org.il wrote: Thanks for providing it. However, it is not XHTML/XML-compliant Correct, HTML is not compatible with XHTML. It is not completely (as far as standalone tags are concerned at least), but you can at least close opened tags, etc. which you've neglected to do. I'm not sure even HTML 4.0 still allows stray opening tags (such as p or td or whatever). In fact, I couldn't make it make it compliant with both HTML and XHTML because I used HR. What is HR in this context? Is this HTML required by Perlmonks, or did you write it like that out of a different reason? this HTML? I meant HTML like the one you've written (see above). Regards and have a happy weekend, Shlomi Fish -- - Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ Optimising Code for Speed - http://shlom.in/optimise Deletionists delete Wikipedia articles that they consider lame. Chuck Norris deletes deletionists whom he considers lame. Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
An HTML Announcement of perl-5.12.0 on The Perl Foundation Blog
Hi all! So far the only announcement of perl-5.12.0 has been to the perl5-porters mailing as plaintext E-mail. It was copied in LWN.net: http://lwn.net/Articles/383203/ But it's still mostly plaintext there. A Google search for perl-5.12.0 yields no good result for an HTML announcement. I think we should announce it by formatting it into HTML and publish it on the TPF (= Perl Foundation) blog. True to my words that Don't whine unless you are going to implement it yourself. (see http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/osp_rules.html ), I am willing to do most of the work, but I'll need to know the desired format in advance and some people will have to proofread my copy. Any comments? Who should I contact? I don't see any contact information on http://news.perlfoundation.org/ (which should also be remedied as soon as humanly possible.) Regards, Shlomi Fish -- - Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ Interview with Ben Collins-Sussman - http://shlom.in/sussman Deletionists delete Wikipedia articles that they consider lame. Chuck Norris deletes deletionists whom he considers lame. Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
Re: An HTML Announcement of perl-5.12.0 on The Perl Foundation Blog
http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl5/index.cgi?news_perl_5_12 has a collection of links to the announcements about 5.12 in various languages. Please update the page with link to further announcements. Gabor
