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[Lewis Bergman]

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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Fucking Bullshit

[Lewis Bergman]

After holding public office, I am convinced that every news article
contains at least three major factual errors. I think mostly they are due
to apathy, laziness, or ignorance. To put it plainly I think fooling people
is just too much effort for most of these people.

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 4:10 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Look at the evidence closely and in each case you'll find a nugget of
> truth with a layer of bullshit on top.  That so many people are so
> thoroughly fooled by it is the most distressing part.  Look closer.  Stop
> being a fool.
>
> The "coup" is when the loser thinks he can win by pretending hard enough.
>
>
> On 1/6/2021 5:05 PM, justsumname wrote:
>
> an election that is not conducted according to law is not an election.
>  it's a coup.
> Worse... if the 'election' is not transparent, verifiable, and treats
> every voter the same, it's not an "election".
> Worse ... if poll watchers are bullied and physically threatened... that
> is intolerable.
>
> hereistheevidence.com   --- in case you dare open your mind to truth
>
> Patton was correct, and so was that McCarthy guy, who was probably a
> commie plant because he did a great job discrediting 'his' message.
>
> All that is left is communism or war.   That was the plan all along and
> only 'crazy' people  -- and people who escaped communist societies to come
> warn us -- saw it or believed in it.
>
> I'll sign off with this, because this is probably The End:
>
> “In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the
> purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, not to
> inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to
> reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are
> being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to
> repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of
> probity. To assent to obvious lies is...in some small way to become evil
> oneself. One's standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even
> destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if
> you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended
> to.” ~ Theodore Dalrymple
>
> You arrogant asses, you've killed us!
> --
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 4:30 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> go drink some tecate, youre losing your mind
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 3:26 PM Jaime Solorza 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Did you just hear his tweeter video bullshit? Fuck Trump... Kruchev
>>> predicted it... Trump enabled it.
>>>
>>> Go ahead and get off this list
>>> Fuck Trump and his Trumpicans...
>>> This is an Insurrection..Rudy called for trial by combat, Trump said it
>>> was going to be wild ...
>>> So fuck them to hell.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2021, 2:11 PM Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 IKR, slides biden is demanding potus go on national TV to quell it,
 unlike during the biden obama administration when he didnt demand the same.
 god this is funny. sad they havent shot more of these mopes today and
 historically

 On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 2:50 PM Jaime Solorza 
 wrote:

> WTF...third world country tactics...
> Insurrection...
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Re: [AFMUG] Why do customers refuse to test things?

[Lewis Bergman]

We would take your problems and pay you a commission.

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 10:19 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> I'm about fed up with phone systems.  Back in the day, I didn't
> understand why the phone system vendors charged $10k to install a $1200
> phone system, but now I get it.  You can have tens of man-hours invested
> in making the tiniest phone system work exactly the way someone wants.
> I'm starting to think you have to plan on being there in person for
> awhile so they can immediately tell you what they don't like instead of
> stewing on it for a week. I also think when there's a week of back and
> forth on these adjustments we think of it as spending a week to make it
> perfect for them, but when they talk about it it'll be the story of
> their phones being all screwed up for a week.
>
> So My new thinking is that I can't go low on price.  I have to go high
> so that I can afford to be there putting time into it, and if I can't
> afford that time investment then I should let somebody else handle it.
> And if they don't want to pay high, then they can figure out something
> else.  Maybe I could go low if they would agree to a recurring
> maintenance contract, but I think most of the time they won't.
>
> It does help to have a conversation up front about how things should
> work, how calls should flow, what the IVR should do, etc. After I have
> that conversation I write up an outline and/or flow chart describing my
> interpretation of what we just talked about and email it to them.  A lot
> of the time I think they just agree with the written form without
> reading it because we STILL end up with confusion sometimes, but at
> least we start out closer to the mark.  It doesn't help that there's a
> terminology that is often unfamiliar to themthey say "voicemail",
> but they really meant an auto attendant or IVR or something else.
>
> Frankly, it's easier to just sell internet and let someone else be the
> "phone guy", but for some reason people keep coming to us about phones.
>
> -Adam
>
>
> On 1/6/2021 10:51 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
> > I notice this mostly when I do phone setups.  Try to get everything
> > configured the way the customer explains to you, then you install it
> > and tell the customer to test it and make sure it's doing what they
> > want.  They say 'Yea, yea, it's fine' As they're putting on their coat
> > to leave for the day, since you made them stay an extra minute later
> > than they though.  Then you don't hear anything more at all out of
> > them.  Then about 6 weeks later you get a call "THESE PHONES ARE JUST
> > ALL BROKEN, THEY'VE NEVER WORKED RIGHT, YOU NEED TO COME FIX THEM
> > NOW!!!"  Usually it's something stupidly simple like, 4 extensions are
> > ringing for inbound calls, and only 3 should ring. But suddenly it's a
> > crisis of business terminating proportions.
> >
> > Over the holidays a customer with an ancient key system with no
> > answering service wanted us to provide voicemail for any incoming
> > calls for the 2 weeks of the holiday.  OK, no problem, setup the
> > voicemail, and it sent out via email, I tested it with the office
> > Admin before break started, and it was all working fine.  Then the
> > first day of the holiday they wanted to change the email address it
> > was sending the voicemails, to one of the owners.  No problem, but
> > they never bothered to test the new email address, voicemails were
> > getting marked as spam by their system, and they only keep spam for 1
> > day.  After break, they ask where all their voicemails were.  For 2
> > weeks, you were not able to check that it's doing what you want? And
> > it never occurred you that you didn't see any voicemail coming through?
> >
> > These are all small businesses, for something that is so critical to
> > them why don't they check and make sure they're doing what they want?
> > Everyone has a cell phone they can use to dial in, it would take them
> > about 2 minutes to check, but they just refuse to.
> >
> > Ironically, many of these are also the same customers that will
> > religiously run speedtest.net on the hour, every hour, and let you
> > know if that little number on the screen is less than the last time it
> > ran.
> >
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Buying land

[Lewis Bergman]

Doesn't sound like you are looking anywhere that would have been industrial
or commercial but if you were, the EPA doesn't care who was responsible for
dumping hazardous waste, the current owner assumes liability for it.

I think wetlands are only an issue if you want to modify that part of your
land. If you have no desire to touch it in a permanent way you might like
them.

By the way, Zillow still seems to be a lousy estimate of value. Make sure
you find a good land real estate broker. Most of the times a real one does
nothing but farm, ranch, and hunting land. They should know what the real
market value is in the area.

On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 11:29 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> I'm poking around Zillow for a piece of cheap land.
>
> Basically looking for some place to play around in the woods, with the
> possibility of building an off-grid camp/cabin in the future.
>
> The pitfalls I'm aware of are wetlands and places with no access.  What
> else should I watch out for?'
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Online backups.

[Lewis Bergman]

I have been using Google cloud for more than a year to do daily backups of
a few servers and databases. Amounts to about 1.5G daily. We have never had
to pull anything from it. Has all the permissions you would expect. I
assume all the services can set one user with permissions to write a file
but not modify one but that lets me sleep a little easier since the user
that writes the file cannot overwrite a previous backup. They auto delete
after 60 days.

I would imagine they are all pretty much the same. The linus gc command
line utility makes it pretty easy to backup anything linux. Haven't ever
tried it with any other OS.

On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 10:51 PM Steven Kenney  wrote:

> Been using S3 and glacier for some things.  Depends what you want to back
> up though.  Entire VM's?  Files? Microsoft servers?
>
> [image: logo] <https://www.wavedirect.net/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ruralhighspeed>
> <https://www.instagram.com/wave.direct/>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/wavedirect-telecommunication/>
> <https://twitter.com/wavedirect1>
> <https://www.youtube.com/user/WaveDirect>
> * STEVEN KENNEY *
> DIRECTOR OF GLOBAL CONNECTIVITY & CONTINUITY A: 158 Erie St. N |
> Leamington ON
> E: st...@wavedirect.org | P: 519-737-9283
> W: www.wavedirect.net
>
> --
> *From: *"Jay Weekley" 
> *To: *"af" 
> *Sent: *Wednesday, December 30, 2020 2:29:21 PM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] OT: Online backups.
>
> What is the current opinion on online data backups?  Which service is
> best?
> --
> *Jay Weekley*
>
> *Cyber Broadband *
>
>
> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient>
>  Virus-free.
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Re: [AFMUG] SCADA enclosure close ups

[Lewis Bergman]

Nice Ken. I knew there was a reason I used them. At least that is what I am
claiming now.

On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 4:14 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> https://www.digikey.com/en/pdf/p/phoenix-contact/the-problems-tinning-wires
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 29, 2020 3:48 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SCADA enclosure close ups
>
>
>
> I tried that. I seemed to have better luck demanding they use these. It
> would actually happen. Requiring tinning demands a skill set that seems to
> be lost on a great many.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 2:50 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
> I never buy them but always wish I had some.  I generally tin the wire if
> I am doing something I want to last.
>
>
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 29, 2020 1:40 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SCADA enclosure close ups
>
>
>
> I was. Thanks Ken. That shows how much I actually used them. Demanded they
> be used but that was the limit of my involvement.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 2:28 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Are you talking about ferrules?  Look kind of like the thing at the end of
> a boot lace?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 29, 2020 2:03 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SCADA enclosure close ups
>
>
>
> We had good luck with those crimp on connectors. Can't remember the name
> but they had a plastic sleeve and a bare metal tube. When crimped it was
> flat. Good for connecting stranded to some screw or pinch terminals. Dang,
> what was that name?
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 11:30 AM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
> I love landing the tin silver dipped multiple coloured wires with harness
> which pops into PLC cards perfectly...
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2020, 10:25 AM Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:
>
> I am really disappointed that your wires are so bendy. Can't you
> straighten those things out?
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 11:22 AM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
> What Tigger's do best...
>
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>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Lewis Bergman
>
> 325-439-0533 Cell
>
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>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Lewis Bergman
>
> 325-439-0533 Cell
>
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>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Lewis Bergman
>
> 325-439-0533 Cell
> --
>
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>
>
>
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> Lewis Bergman
>
> 325-439-0533 Cell
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Re: [AFMUG] SCADA enclosure close ups

[Lewis Bergman]

I tried that. I seemed to have better luck demanding they use these. It
would actually happen. Requiring tinning demands a skill set that seems to
be lost on a great many.

On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 2:50 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> I never buy them but always wish I had some.  I generally tin the wire if
> I am doing something I want to last.
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 29, 2020 1:40 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SCADA enclosure close ups
>
> I was. Thanks Ken. That shows how much I actually used them. Demanded they
> be used but that was the limit of my involvement.
>
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 2:28 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Are you talking about ferrules?  Look kind of like the thing at the end
>> of a boot lace?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Lewis Bergman
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 29, 2020 2:03 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SCADA enclosure close ups
>>
>>
>>
>> We had good luck with those crimp on connectors. Can't remember the name
>> but they had a plastic sleeve and a bare metal tube. When crimped it was
>> flat. Good for connecting stranded to some screw or pinch terminals. Dang,
>> what was that name?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 11:30 AM Jaime Solorza 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I love landing the tin silver dipped multiple coloured wires with harness
>> which pops into PLC cards perfectly...
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 29, 2020, 10:25 AM Lewis Bergman 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I am really disappointed that your wires are so bendy. Can't you
>> straighten those things out?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 11:22 AM Jaime Solorza 
>> wrote:
>>
>> What Tigger's do best...
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Lewis Bergman
>>
>> 325-439-0533 Cell
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Lewis Bergman
>>
>> 325-439-0533 Cell
>> --
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>>
>
>
> --
> Lewis Bergman
> 325-439-0533 Cell
>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] SCADA enclosure close ups

[Lewis Bergman]

I was. Thanks Ken. That shows how much I actually used them. Demanded they
be used but that was the limit of my involvement.

On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 2:28 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Are you talking about ferrules?  Look kind of like the thing at the end of
> a boot lace?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 29, 2020 2:03 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SCADA enclosure close ups
>
>
>
> We had good luck with those crimp on connectors. Can't remember the name
> but they had a plastic sleeve and a bare metal tube. When crimped it was
> flat. Good for connecting stranded to some screw or pinch terminals. Dang,
> what was that name?
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 11:30 AM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
> I love landing the tin silver dipped multiple coloured wires with harness
> which pops into PLC cards perfectly...
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2020, 10:25 AM Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:
>
> I am really disappointed that your wires are so bendy. Can't you
> straighten those things out?
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 11:22 AM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
> What Tigger's do best...
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Lewis Bergman
>
> 325-439-0533 Cell
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
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>
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>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Lewis Bergman
>
> 325-439-0533 Cell
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>


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Re: [AFMUG] Proxmox networking help - paid or otherwise

[Lewis Bergman]

Bumping this as maybe it was too early for all the Proxmox geniuses to see.

On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 7:36 AM Lewis Bergman 
wrote:

> Borg,
> I have all the hardware in place now for a Proxmox cluster. The 4 HP
> servers each have the following:
> 2 EA 1G network- Purpose was for public access/management
> 2 EA 10G network  - Purpose was for CEPH storage pools
> iLO advanced
> The servers will be plugged into two Cisco layer 3 switches in VSS mode
> for redundancy and each like interface on LACP for redundancy and
> increased bandwidth.
>
> I am planning on getting a Proxmox support contract  for at least the
> first year but they say networking is beyond their scope.
>
> I am asking if there is anyone on this list who feels they are qualified
> to help design the network scheme of the cluster. Bridged or routed,
> subnets, etc. All but a few of the VM's need to have public IP's.
>
> I want to avoid some basic mistake I might not realize until I am months
> into the whole thing.
> --
> Lewis Bergman
> 325-439-0533 Cell
>


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Re: [AFMUG] SCADA enclosure close ups

[Lewis Bergman]

We had good luck with those crimp on connectors. Can't remember the name
but they had a plastic sleeve and a bare metal tube. When crimped it was
flat. Good for connecting stranded to some screw or pinch terminals. Dang,
what was that name?

On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 11:30 AM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> I love landing the tin silver dipped multiple coloured wires with harness
> which pops into PLC cards perfectly...
>
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2020, 10:25 AM Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:
>
>> I am really disappointed that your wires are so bendy. Can't you
>> straighten those things out?
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 11:22 AM Jaime Solorza 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> What Tigger's do best...
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Lewis Bergman
>> 325-439-0533 Cell
>> --
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] SCADA enclosure close ups

[Lewis Bergman]

I am really disappointed that your wires are so bendy. Can't you straighten
those things out?

On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 11:22 AM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> What Tigger's do best...
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
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[AFMUG] Proxmox networking help - paid or otherwise

[Lewis Bergman]

Borg,
I have all the hardware in place now for a Proxmox cluster. The 4 HP
servers each have the following:
2 EA 1G network- Purpose was for public access/management
2 EA 10G network  - Purpose was for CEPH storage pools
iLO advanced
The servers will be plugged into two Cisco layer 3 switches in VSS mode for
redundancy and each like interface on LACP for redundancy and
increased bandwidth.

I am planning on getting a Proxmox support contract  for at least the first
year but they say networking is beyond their scope.

I am asking if there is anyone on this list who feels they are qualified to
help design the network scheme of the cluster. Bridged or routed, subnets,
etc. All but a few of the VM's need to have public IP's.

I want to avoid some basic mistake I might not realize until I am months
into the whole thing.
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Re: [AFMUG] AT outage

[Lewis Bergman]

They stopped spending money on their entire copper plant at least 15 years
ago nationwide. We used to have 15 techs in this area alone. Now 2 techs
cover more than twice the area that 15 used to handle. They just keep
raising the line pressure if there are issues with water. No lines ever get
replaced. I think they are replacing business lines with their cell gadget
when they have issues.

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 11:00 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

> You know, back in 2004, when I started our original wireless business,
> we had suffered through about 7 years of SBC's declining level of
> service after they had purchased Pacific Bell (our regional baby bell).
> SBC had made the unadvertised decision to not spend any money on their
> rural copper plant.
>
> In 2005, when they bought ATT (and renamed themselves "att"), I saw the
> same thing happening more places.
>
> Today, in our area, if you have an att phone line, it is pretty much
> crap. If you can't get broadband to do VoIP, or can't get cell service,
> you're screwed. Our tall trees and mountainous terrain make that more
> likely than you might think.
>
> My bottom line is I don't trust att for much, because they're basically
> SBC in att clothing.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 12/27/2020 8:14 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> > Last week I had a neighbor worried internet, phones and power were all
> going down about this time.  Qanon end of the world type of thing.  I
> assured her all will be well.  Now we are down hard...  teach me to be an
> optimist.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Dec 27, 2020, at 8:56 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
> >>
> >> On 12/27/20 6:30 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> >>> We are out.  I wonder how widespread this is?
> >>
> >> My RNO-LAX transport over att is up.
> >>
> >> --
> >> AF mailing list
> >> AF@af.afmug.com
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Florida Broadband in Sunny Florida is hiring !!

[Lewis Bergman]

I'll be in St. Petersburg near the end of January. If I have time I'll come
say hi.

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 10:57 AM Paul McCall  wrote:

> Florida Broadband, in sunny Vero Beach, FL is hiring! We are looking for
> climbing techs (meaning they climb where needed and do installs and service
> calls otherwise) ALSO, we are looking for a GREAT service managed (in
> charge of physical logistics). This is a great growth opportunity position,
> a key man so to speak, with large incentives and maybe an equity position
> for the right person. Please send all resumes and correspondence to hr AT
> floridabroadband.com
> <https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Ffloridabroadband.com%2F%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR2dTIjgxKQrq1Mgx9Z78tP32IFmSfuNfLtZU9pQyFRuEo1U1158uvKYLx8=AT2JXRto2pkXBZUC3njoGB_eLedo3nK5fkyVws79vxPU-IaDAQZ8LDJQRraSWwD3Sq5KdJRwgXm2hhDb886K6jcI2_-zRohosY1lzoL1jdGHJSfoxbNXQ9iHGP_eruMRmQ&__tn__=-UK-R%5b0%5d=AT2FQ5e8uZPfK3HfqgPIatWdnUK-jwWVZs1PDeNh6vWY4ANDaAg5m9ehf60x4z7UzXt9aN4yWExomABwTXx4hHyaHonxkZW64R0B1Y7Zci8ehrslOiSbPrF_htR8QJV5PqzJ97p2b128Vd7ccGHgxdpdEUNraBlNwiM>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Paul McCall, President *
>
> *Florida Broadband / PDMNet*
>
> *658 Old Dixie Highway*
>
> *Vero Beach, FL 32962*
>
> *772-564-6800*
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Data center Security

[Lewis Bergman]

tion attack.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 26, 2020, 9:54 AM Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
> I hesitated on where to post this. Not that I think I’m giving anyone any
> ideas - but still.
>
> What happened in Nashville has actually been a concern of mine for some
> time.
>
> Look at 9/11. Huge loss of life yes. But that took a lot of effort and
> planning and getting through security and learning to basically fly a
> massive tin projectile.
>
> How much more damage could a small group do with 5 or 6 vans loaded with
> explosives in a coordinated attack on say: NYC, 401N Broad, Ashburn, St
> Louis, Chicago and San Jose?
>
> Throw in a few major CO switching offices in some major towns.
>
> You’ve caused mass disaster. Minimal planning. And now with 911 services
> out and data crippled you could do something else even more major.
> --
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>
>
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>
>
>
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>
> --
>
> *Total Control Panel*
>
> Login <https://asp.reflexion.net/login?domain=litewire.net>
>
> To: ja...@litewire.net
> <https://asp.reflexion.net/address-properties?aID=242260993=litewire.net>
>
> From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com
>
> *You received this message because the domain afmug.com <http://afmug.com>
> is on your allow list.*
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> *Total Control Panel*
>
> Login <https://asp.reflexion.net/login?domain=litewire.net>
>
> To: ja...@litewire.net
> <https://asp.reflexion.net/address-properties?aID=242260993=litewire.net>
>
> From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com
>
> *You received this message because the domain afmug.com <http://afmug.com>
> is on your allow list.*
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT gantt chart

[Lewis Bergman]

Google sheets

On Thu, Dec 24, 2020 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Anyone have any recommendations for free gantt chart software.  I miss MS
> project.  Everyone now seems to be cloud based and subscription based.
>
> I am about to renew my basic smartsheet subscription but I really want
> resource management and you have to buy a 3 user license for that.
> $75/month.
>
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Re: [AFMUG] stabilizing an Unguyed tower

[Lewis Bergman]

The "sidewalk guy" method seems to be your only reasonable solution. I
would definitely reinforce the tower across the face at the point marked
"R" in the drawing as those towers are not designed to have that kind of
lateral force applied to a small point. If you used strut or angle iron
(both widely available galvanized) across the face and bolted them all
together at the ends of the strut where they connect you could carry most
of the extra force without impacting the tower at all.
Something like this would do:
60 degree strut bracket
<https://www.toolsboltsnbits.com/shopping/strut-accessories-electro-galvanized-c-61/angles-c-61_170/4-hole-closed-angle-60-eg-p-1428.html?_vsrefdom=adwords=CjwKCAiAz4b_BRBbEiwA5XlVVoEGfAGIvU-AGtIg7nWy38cStltwGecjap_AbRbVfYWmReiUFk-TbhoCPDoQAvD_BwE#googlebase>
3 of those connecting the ends would transfer the load to the bracing
itself. You could then affix point R (tower end of the strut) with a a
couple of 90's to spread the load a bit wider on the strut.

Seems like a lot of work but if you need to get the link stable and can't
put a bigger tower I guess it might do.

I usually stick a 3 foot face tower in on something like this but I have a
bunch laying about.

On Tue, Dec 22, 2020 at 11:39 AM Craig House 
wrote:

> Yeah not really this is an attempt to use what he already has to get him
> service which is not going to make me money back if I have to put  a lot
> into it
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 22, 2020, at 09:49, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> 
>
> I assume the budget does not allow replacing it with a true
> self-supporter?  Like a Rohn SSV, or I think Trylon makes some.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Craig House
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 22, 2020 9:37 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] stabilizing an Unguyed tower
>
>
>
> Moving is not an option. No LOS from any other spot without going way
> taller
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Dec 22, 2020, at 08:49, Sam Lambie  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Is the owner willing to move the tower in from the property line enough to
> guy it properly?
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 22, 2020 at 7:36 AM dave  wrote:
>
> How is it unstable?
>  does it wobble?
> or is it a sturdy /twisty kinda thing?
>
> Most of that can be contained by just adding braces between the legs top
> middle bottom.
> more if needed
>
>
>
> 
>
> On 12/21/20 9:46 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>
> On utility poles they sometimes use "sidewalk guys" in tight places.  The
> wire goes to an arm and then straight down.  Lateral force on the pole
> wants to pull straight up on the anchor so you get an auger in real deep.
> Could you put an auger in adjacent to the pad?
>
>
>
>
>
> [image: Fig. 1- Structure Configuretion and]
>
> On 12/21/2020 10:20 PM, Craig House wrote:
>
> The attached drawing is rough but I hope you get the idea.  It is not the 
> tower in questions but is a photo I had I could mark up
>
>
>
> I have a customer that has a tower in the very corner of their yard  90 
> degree angle corner.  Best I can get in the yard is one guy wire and the 
> neighbor is not an option to put guy wires in.  25g 50' tall.  I'd like to 
> make it more stable but how?   The base is in concrete and has been there for 
> some time.  Heavy winds have not caused damage to the tower so it is not 
> about how solid it is as much as how much it moves  Would a guy wire design 
> where all three legs were guyed back to the base of the tower using some kind 
> of stand off in the middle do anything?  I think it might make the tower more 
> rigid but would it keep it from swaying?  Since some of the unstableness of 
> the tower comes from the joints it seems like it might help but is it worth 
> the effort?  I maybe could move out 3' from the base but that angle just 
> doesn't do much more than attaching to the base just above the concrete.  
> Thoughts?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
> *Sam Lambie*
> Taosnet Wireless Tech.
> 575-758-7598 Office
> www.Taosnet.com <http://www.newmex.com>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] WISP Broker

[Lewis Bergman]

I was approached by JAB directly.

On Fri, Dec 18, 2020 at 7:29 PM Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> Anyone in our industry that brokers sales and buys of ISPs?
>
> For anyone who has sold - how did you find your buyer?
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Not all Texans are idiots

[Lewis Bergman]

I think you underestimate the apathy of most Americans

On Mon, Dec 14, 2020, 4:55 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

> Scotus is unique in that they arent elected, they ha e a wide berth of
> discretion, they are the literal last line prior to violent engagement. So,
> say the feds want to add a tea tax on Massachusetts. Massachusetts says
> hey, I'm harmed by this. Without a hearing the court says, nope, no merit.
> Massachusetts says, hey now, we really think you should hear us out.
> Discretion being the key.
>
> We are at the point of a harbor being a tea kettle in close to 40 million
> of the most heavily armed people on the planets minds . Whether what they
> think is real, or make believe, it is what it is, and their communications
> have been forced out of the public's surveillance, so you never know what
> they're going to do next. They're not the kind who wear black clothes,
> masks, and disappear right after they do something cowardly like beat an
> old man in a wheelchair. They also believe the italian guy pretending to be
> latino wasnt kidding.
>
> Either way
>
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2020, 4:19 PM Carl Peterson 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm not exactly clear as to the train of thought, or even what case/issue
>> the SC should hear out.  The "case" argued in public is nothing like
>> anything presented in any court.  It isn't like Trump's lawyers weren't
>> given an opportunity.  Q.  Are you alleging fraud?  A.  No.  Well OK then.
>> You can't then go to the PA supreme court and allege fraud.  When the PA
>> supreme court declines to let you, you can't go to the SC and do the same.
>> They will rightly tell you to pound sand.  This basic script played out
>> over and over again.
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 3:49 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>
>>> If I'm following Steve's train of thought: he's saying giving the issue
>>> a day in court might convince some people that justice was done more
>>> effectively than simply dismissing the case.  An independent judiciary
>>> shouldn't have to consider political angles like that.  The cases are being
>>> dismissed because they lack standing and/or lack merit.  If that doesn't
>>> convince people, then neither would taking the case to court and losing
>>> it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Not all Texans are idiots

[Lewis Bergman]

s, mostly photos of banana pants, as well as some songs,
>>>>
>>>> none of which shed much light on the subject for me.  I assume it
>>>>
>>>> means cra-cra?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>
>>>> From: AF   On Behalf Of 
>>>> Robert Andrews
>>>>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2020 1:42 PM
>>>>
>>>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Not all Texans are idiots
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This was similar to how the south leaders hauled all the regular
>>>>
>>>> people into the civil war.  Yes they did a good job stirring things up
>>>>
>>>> before.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 12/12/2020 11:19 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The people who should really be looking at this are the citizens in
>>>>
>>>> the states who think it's appropriate for their AG to sue another
>>>>
>>>> state's election results.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The suit was what I would call banana-pants.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> bp
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 12/11/2020 4:19 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>>>>
>>>> All these craven lackeys got a big fuck you from the SCOTUS...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
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>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
>>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

[Lewis Bergman]

Well that is pretty funny.
My statement is based on Steve's statement. No OS is secure out of the box
and unmaintained. But by your statement, all OS's are equivalent and the
admin is the only difference between any OS. So by your logic Windows 3.1,
Server 2003, BSD, CentOS, Debian, and Ubuntu are all equal in their
ability to withstand penetration because the OS doesn't matter since the
admin is all that counts.
OS's do have inherent characteristics that make them to be more or less
secure.
Of course you should break the shrinkwrap and stick some computer on a
public IP untouched. But that isn't what I was suggesting or implying.

On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 8:40 AM Josh Baird  wrote:

> "Ubuntu is and has been more secure than CentOS" is not an accurate
> statement.
>
> A system is only as secure as you make it.  CentOS is perfectly secure
> when operated correctly.  As is any flavor of Debian.
>
> Put a Debian system in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they are
> doing and it's just as insecure as anything else.
>
> On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 8:13 AM Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:
>
>> Ubuntu is backed by Canonical, is based on Debian, and as for security I
>> would say Ubuntu is and has been more secure than CentOS and not as secure
>> as Debian.
>> But to be clear they are better like Jennifer Garner is hotter than
>> Jennifer Aniston. Sure, hotter, but you likely would be really happy with
>> either one of them.
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 11:59 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Holy shit, I just took a cursory look at redhat pricing. Starts at 350 a
>>> year per server, physical server only, and not intended for production use.
>>> 2500 a year for the data center if I read it right
>>>
>>> I run webmin to manage package updates and BIND. If I'm reading
>>> correctly ubuntu isnt terrible, just less security patched since it's all
>>> opensource and not subsidized by a big dog like red hat. Probably doable,
>>> but no yum.
>>>
>>> Has something like this happenned with centos historically? I assume the
>>> linux community will bring about a comparable solution or resolution.
>>>
>>> This just stinks, I had my centos process down.
>>>
>>> Is this end of life like a microst end of life where they just keep
>>> patching and saying they mean it this time for years?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 11:28 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Supposedly there will be CentOS Stream?  Kind of like RHEL beta instead
>>>> of RHEL day old bread.  I guess their answer would be if you are using it
>>>> in a production environment you could always pay for RHEL.  Or there’s
>>>> Fedora.  I believe Preseem runs on Fedora.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
>>>> *Sent:* Friday, December 11, 2020 10:19 PM
>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Debian is like Ubuntu ,only better.  ;-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -
>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> *From: *"Steve Jones" 
>>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>>>> *Sent: *Friday, December 11, 2020 5:12:13 PM
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
>>>>
>>>> I've been a peasant my whole life, is there any other way?
>>>>
>>>> I think powercode is ubuntu now, so I'll probably go that route, are
>>>> there major differences to it?
>>>>
>>>> I dont like saying

Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

[Lewis Bergman]

Ubuntu is backed by Canonical, is based on Debian, and as for security I
would say Ubuntu is and has been more secure than CentOS and not as secure
as Debian.
But to be clear they are better like Jennifer Garner is hotter than
Jennifer Aniston. Sure, hotter, but you likely would be really happy with
either one of them.

On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 11:59 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> Holy shit, I just took a cursory look at redhat pricing. Starts at 350 a
> year per server, physical server only, and not intended for production use.
> 2500 a year for the data center if I read it right
>
> I run webmin to manage package updates and BIND. If I'm reading correctly
> ubuntu isnt terrible, just less security patched since it's all opensource
> and not subsidized by a big dog like red hat. Probably doable, but no yum.
>
> Has something like this happenned with centos historically? I assume the
> linux community will bring about a comparable solution or resolution.
>
> This just stinks, I had my centos process down.
>
> Is this end of life like a microst end of life where they just keep
> patching and saying they mean it this time for years?
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 11:28 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Supposedly there will be CentOS Stream?  Kind of like RHEL beta instead
>> of RHEL day old bread.  I guess their answer would be if you are using it
>> in a production environment you could always pay for RHEL.  Or there’s
>> Fedora.  I believe Preseem runs on Fedora.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
>> *Sent:* Friday, December 11, 2020 10:19 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
>>
>>
>>
>> Debian is like Ubuntu ,only better.  ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>>
>> *From: *"Steve Jones" 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Friday, December 11, 2020 5:12:13 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?
>>
>> I've been a peasant my whole life, is there any other way?
>>
>> I think powercode is ubuntu now, so I'll probably go that route, are
>> there major differences to it?
>>
>> I dont like saying ubuntu, too much like ubnt
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 3:47 PM Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>>
>> On 12/11/20 13:21, Steve Jones wrote:
>> > Am I reading all this right? Redhat officially killed centos and its
>> > tombstoned in 2021?
>> >
>> > Everything I run is centos. It's not like I know centos but I have my
>> > resource sets on where to go to resolve anything that pops up.
>> >
>> > Is this just a normal thing in the linux world where something is ended
>> > but actually just rebrands and keeps going or is it a legit end of the
>> OS?
>>
>>
>> It happens. Someone will probably fork it and make up a new distro if
>> that hasn't happened already. IMO the main reason to use CentOS was
>> because it was rebuilt RHEL.
>>
>> I gave up on Red Hat about two releases into Fedora Core when it became
>> obvious it was just rapidly changing garbage for testing on the peasants
>> before bringing fixes into their commercial version.
>>
>> --
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>>
>>
>> --
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

[Lewis Bergman]

Package management for one. Probably the biggest. If you Google it there's
probably how to somewhere on the web for migration from centos to Ubuntu.
LTS is the one you want.

On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 5:13 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

> I've been a peasant my whole life, is there any other way?
> I think powercode is ubuntu now, so I'll probably go that route, are there
> major differences to it?
> I dont like saying ubuntu, too much like ubnt
>
> On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 3:47 PM Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>
>> On 12/11/20 13:21, Steve Jones wrote:
>> > Am I reading all this right? Redhat officially killed centos and its
>> > tombstoned in 2021?
>> >
>> > Everything I run is centos. It's not like I know centos but I have my
>> > resource sets on where to go to resolve anything that pops up.
>> >
>> > Is this just a normal thing in the linux world where something is ended
>> > but actually just rebrands and keeps going or is it a legit end of the
>> OS?
>>
>>
>> It happens. Someone will probably fork it and make up a new distro if
>> that hasn't happened already. IMO the main reason to use CentOS was
>> because it was rebuilt RHEL.
>>
>> I gave up on Red Hat about two releases into Fedora Core when it became
>> obvious it was just rapidly changing garbage for testing on the peasants
>> before bringing fixes into their commercial version.
>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Electrical engineer

[Lewis Bergman]

Chuck and his kid are.

On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 3:37 PM Tyson Burris  wrote:

> Anyone in the group an electrical engineer or know someone who we can pay
> a consulting fee?
>
>
>
> *Tyson Burris, President*
> *Internet Communications Inc.*
> *739 Commerce Dr.*
> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>
> *Office #* *317-738-0320 *
> *Cell/Direct #* *317-412-1540 *
> *Online: **www.surfici.net* <http://www.surfici.net>
>
>
>
> [image: ICI]
>
> *What can ICI do for you?*
>
>
> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP Cameras
> - Fiber - Towers - Infrastructure.*
>
> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
> *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
> *prohibited.*
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead?

[Lewis Bergman]

You picked the distro that has deep commercial roots. The company behind
CentOS has been bought and sold at least twice that I know of. Might be
better with Debian or one of its variants like Ubunty.

On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 3:21 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> Am I reading all this right? Redhat officially killed centos and its
> tombstoned in 2021?
>
> Everything I run is centos. It's not like I know centos but I have my
> resource sets on where to go to resolve anything that pops up.
>
> Is this just a normal thing in the linux world where something is ended
> but actually just rebrands and keeps going or is it a legit end of the OS?
> --
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>


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Re: [AFMUG] OT HR question

[Lewis Bergman]

We don't allow people to come in when they want. If they are sick they are
out for the whole day. We feel it protects the workers that show up on time.

On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 9:59 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> If you have guys call in not feeling well, but they think they might be
> able to make it by noon, do you let them come in?
>
> Like why reward laziness/hangovers.  But if they are really sick, stay
> home and recuperate.
>
> Had 4 like that this morning.  One is recovering from gall bladder surgery
> last week, so it is understandable.
>
>
>
> Not sure about the rest.  Monday absenteeism after a payday smacks of drug
> usage in my opinion.
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Not Superman anymore

[Lewis Bergman]

I have the same in my left knee. Supposedly difficult to operate on. I was
favoring it and it was getting worse. He told me to stop favoring it and it
would get better but likely always have a little hitch in it

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020, 11:55 AM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Some of you may know I fell off this side mount back in August...I should
> not have tried to climb it since I had been on bed rest from retinal
> operation for two months mas o menos.
> Well I finally got to see specialist...torn meniscus in right knee, and
> suspected rotator cuff tear on right shoulder.
> Need to get MRIs and starting me on PT...might need surgerydamn.
> My own damn fault..
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Re: [AFMUG] Offnet SIP and Multi-homing

[Lewis Bergman]

You forgot Rule #3, It is the ISP's fault.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 9:32 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I thought the rules of troubleshooting VoIP were:
>
> Rule #1:  It's a NAT or ALG problem
> Rule #2:  Refer to Rule #1
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
> Sent: Friday, December 4, 2020 8:43 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Offnet SIP and Multi-homing
>
> I use Grandstream, and BLF is Broken when trying to use SIP over TCP.
> I've never had a NAT problem before.  I was just checking the other Offnet
> phones that I have, and through sheer happenstance, those handsets all
> coming in and leaving on the same transit provider.
>
> Interesting is that the Grandstream Softphone client on my cell phone works
> fine, it's only the Grandstream handsets that are the problem. I'm guessing
> they are setting the call up in 2 different ways, and one is affected while
> the other is not.  I haven't done enough packetcaptures to see if there is
> a
> difference between the packet streams.
>
>
>
> On 12/4/2020 8:07 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
> > Is there a reason not to use SIP over TCP?
> >
> > I think in the past I thought retransmits were irrelevant in a
> > realtime app, but the latency is low enough sometimes now that maybe
> > it would actually help.  And TCP seems to traverse NAT more easily.
> >
> >
> > On 12/3/2020 6:18 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
> >> I'm trying to track down a strange Issue I'm having, and wondering if
> >> anyone has run into something similar.
> >>
> >> I have a couple customers that I let take phone handsets home, the
> >> Grandstream PBX is at our office.  It seems that if the SIP traffic
> >> comes in one upstream, but leaves another upstream, really weird
> >> things happen.
> >>
> >> The Phone registers to the PBX just fine, and can receive calls all
> >> day long, it just cannot make calls.  If I take a /24 and force it to
> >> enter and leave the network via the same provider, then everything
> >> works fine.  Those of you that have multiple diverse paths, have you
> >> seen something like this?  The Call in UDP Mode fails, the call in
> >> TCP mode will succeed.
> >>
> >> This only appears to be an issue with the handset talking to the PBX.
> >> All of our Sip Trunk traffic (Voip Innovations) works just fine.  For
> >> some reason the handset SIP re-invite never makes it back to the
> >> handset when multi-homing is in place.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
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>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Offnet SIP and Multi-homing

[Lewis Bergman]

There is such a tool. There is a lower capability free version and a paid
version. VoIPMonitor <https://www.voipmonitor.org/>
Tough to say what might be going on. On the face it seems like the re
invite doesn't know where to go as there is no NAT table connection entry
from that port to the internal IP.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 6:13 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> I used to think SIP was OK.  I even helped GenBand (or whatever the
> Northern
> Telecom manufacturer was called after they were Northern Telecom ) fix
> their
> SIP stack.  Took a ton of wire sharking and deep packet inspection but
> they
> had a fault.
>
> But I have forgotten everything I ever knew about SIP.  I am sure there is
> someone that makes a SIP tool the is like wire shark but decodes things
> into
> a much more easy to read format and then is able to launch SIP packets
> too... but too lazy to see if one exists.  A SIP simulator, or spoofer or
> stingray type of box.
>
> Needs to be made out of metal and have buttons, lights and meters on it.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Ken Hohhof
> Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2020 4:57 PM
> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Offnet SIP and Multi-homing
>
> I thought re-invites were used to get the media stream to flow directly
> between the endpoints and bypass the PBX.
>
> And if you took out the asymmetric routing, the other symptoms would make
> me
> think it's a NAT traversal or SIP ALG problem in the customer's router.
> But
> with the dependency on how the traffic flows over the Internet, I haven't a
> clue.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
> Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2020 5:18 PM
> To: Animal Farm 
> Subject: [AFMUG] Offnet SIP and Multi-homing
>
> I'm trying to track down a strange Issue I'm having, and wondering if
> anyone
> has run into something similar.
>
> I have a couple customers that I let take phone handsets home, the
> Grandstream PBX is at our office.  It seems that if the SIP traffic comes
> in
> one upstream, but leaves another upstream, really weird things happen.
>
> The Phone registers to the PBX just fine, and can receive calls all day
> long, it just cannot make calls.  If I take a /24 and force it to enter and
> leave the network via the same provider, then everything works fine.  Those
> of you that have multiple diverse paths, have you seen something like this?
> The Call in UDP Mode fails, the call in TCP mode will succeed.
>
> This only appears to be an issue with the handset talking to the PBX.
> All of our Sip Trunk traffic (Voip Innovations) works just fine.  For some
> reason the handset SIP re-invite never makes it back to the handset when
> multi-homing is in place.
>
>
>
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>
>
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Arecibo Collapse Video

[Lewis Bergman]

That all seems like a total waste. We are great at building lots of things.
Not so great at maintaining them.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 11:51 AM Gino A. Villarini  wrote:

> IIRC they were inspecting the cables on a daily basis
>
>
>
> *From: *AF 
> *Date: *Thursday, December 3, 2020 at 1:50 PM
> *To: *af@af.afmug.com 
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Arecibo Collapse Video
>
> Kind of lucky they had a drone going when it happened. or maybe they were
> anticipating when it was going to happen?
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
> On 12/3/2020 9:31 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:
>
> https://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/arecibo/
>
>
>
>
>
> *Gino** Villarini *
> Founder/President
> @gvillarini
> t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
>
> [image: Image removed by sender. aeronet-logo] <http://www.aeronetpr.com>
>
> [image: Image removed by sender. inc500]
> <https://www.inc.com/profile/aeronet>
>
> [image: Image removed by sender. fb-logo]
> <https://www.facebook.com/aeronetpr>
>
> [image: Image removed by sender. insta-logo]
> <https://www.instagram.com/aeronetpr/?hl=en>
>
> [image: Image removed by sender. in-logo]
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/aeronet-broadband-corp>
>
> [image: Image removed by sender. tw-logo]
> <https://twitter.com/AeroNetPR?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor>
>
>
> [image: Image removed by sender. yt-logo]
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr2Q9WBrAYVm3Fn970Jd6VA>
>
> www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
>
>
>
> -->
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Emergency Vehicle LEDs

[Lewis Bergman]

We install those on public safety vehicles. There is definitely a big dick
complex with these guys and how many lights they can shove on something.
This is the first I have heard about installing a light sensor for the
LED's which would seem to be a great idea. I am not aware that any
manufacturer has implemented that internally as a factory option.

On Wed, Dec 2, 2020 at 9:14 AM Nate Burke  wrote:

> I've started seeing more Semi Trucks with an LED Light bar mounted center
> on the front bumper.  I guess it make sense when you're driving across the
> Nebraska flatlands in the middle of the night, but not on the city
> expressway.
>
> On 12/1/2020 10:10 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> i have to pull over when you bastards come at me at night with those. One
> of these days imma just cross the line and get paid
>
> On Tue, Dec 1, 2020 at 9:41 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> Luckily my F-150 is not an emergency vehicle, so I feel perfectly
>> comfortable driving my vehicle with 1,000,00 candle power LED headlights
>> (X 2).
>>
>> of course when I turn on the fog lights, and go bambi mode, it goes way,
>> way up.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 12/1/2020 4:06 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
>> > Am I the only one who thinks that the new LED's that all the emergency
>> > vehicles have now are dangerous?  I was about 1/2 mile behind an
>> > ambulance and the flashing LED's were so bright in front of me that I
>> > could barely make out the traffic light I was stopped at.  And why
>> > does the ambulance need to have approximately 200,000 LED Fixtures on
>> > it?  I get it, I see you, I can't not see you, now I can't see
>> > anything else.  They saw an open piece of sheet metal and were like,
>> > 'We could put another strobe there'  It's even worse when there are
>> > multiple vehicles together at an accident scene.  I understand having
>> > them bright during the day, but they are just blinding at night.  It's
>> > like they need to have a day/night mode. Who do I write a strongly
>> > worded letter to expressing my displeasure?
>> >
>>
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>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Ot: the milk rabbit hole

[Lewis Bergman]

I am guessing 2% would take twice the milk to make the same amount of
cheese since 2% is half the fat of regular milk right? Or am I
misremembering how much what whole milk has?

On Tue, Dec 1, 2020 at 12:23 AM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> Sounds like the cows made a deal to get the pigs killed and save
> themselves. Cows are much more devious than we think. Female cows of
> course, bulls, like us men are just dumb
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 30, 2020, 11:30 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> At one of our pig farm customers, our dish is on their “whey tank”.  For
>> the first couple years I thought it was a “way tank”.  They get deliveries
>> of whey that is a byproduct from somewhere, probably cheesemaking?
>>
>>
>>
>> Separate milk into curds and whey, the curds become cheese, the whey
>> becomes pork?  Voila, ham and cheese sandwich.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Monday, November 30, 2020 10:54 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Ot: the milk rabbit hole
>>
>>
>>
>> So I eat a ton of butter, like a pound or two a week, I love the stuff.
>>
>> I've made basic butter a few times, but heavy cream is pricey and butter
>> is work heavy.
>>
>>
>>
>> I also eat a ton of cheese, I love real smoked string cheese, but it's as
>> expensive as beef.
>>
>>
>>
>> I never looked into making cheese because I always assumed it required
>> raw milk.
>>
>>
>>
>> My mom's church food pantry has to dump a boatload of milk every couple
>> weeks because of the way the government works, if you dont take all they
>> offer, they begin to cut you off.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mostly 2 percent. So out of curiosity I wondered if there was a cheese
>> that could be made (turns out pasteurized 2 percent is the milk required
>> for parmesan)
>>
>>
>>
>> That's a hard cheese and takes a press and 6 to 12 months to ripen.
>>
>>
>>
>> Anyhow, once I found out pasteurized commercial milk is actually
>> preferred for most common cheeses since the milk fat is consistent, I've
>> been reading more and more about the cheese, the byproduct of cheese, the
>> uses of the byproduct and the byproduct of the byproduct.
>>
>>
>>
>> Low and behold certain cheese like cheddar have a byproduct of sweet
>> whey, from which sweet cream can be extracted to make butter. So now I'm
>> hooked on reading more. According to most recipes 1 gallon whole milk will
>> yield a pound of hard cheese like cheddar or two pounds of soft cheese and
>> the whey will yield a third to half pound of butter. With the remaining
>> byproduct having a couple uses from protein additive to plant food. Not to
>> shabby for something that can be got for a buck 50 on sale per gallon at
>> retail. And is a waste product of food banks (sadly they cannot accept back
>> processed cheese and butter)
>>
>>
>>
>> But anyway this rabbit hole just goes deeper, turns out the demand for
>> Greek yogurt has caused damage for the environment and the demand for
>> protein additives has caused commercial cheese prices to not rise with
>> inflation or even go down. Companies actually start making cheese to get
>> they sweet whey byproduct to convert into protein.
>>
>>
>>
>> The massive demand for Greek yogurt created an excess of acid whey that
>> used to just be sprayed on farms. But there is too much now, it will kill
>> waterways because the organics it it and produce algae blooms. A lake was
>> killed because of cheese. An entire industry has been created to research
>> what to do with it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Whole point is milk is some pretty complex shit. It's like an addiction
>> trying to find out more about this. If you're looking to kill some time,
>> start reading about cheese making
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Water heaters

[Lewis Bergman]

I found the new RO units when I was looking at buying a small island in
Fiji. Raw island so I was looking at the cost of solar plus adding a
desalination plant. It turns out that desal plants are just RO with an
added prestage to handle more gunk and salt water. Really not that
expensive. I think the unit I thought would be best came in at about $7k
and would produce 1200 gallons a day. That is a lot of fresh water. I
didn't get to test one and was wondering if it would be better than the
desal plants onboard Navy ships which tasted like ass. Those desal plants
take more energy to run than normal RO as it takes more pressure to run the
extra stages and you don't have any external source of pressure like you do
on a water system. The high volume standard RO plants typically take some
power as they use pumps to restore the pressure you lose going through the
system and without them you can't reach the volume past about 200 gallons a
day it seems.
I figured the solar would likely cost another $60k with batts and all.
Figure another $15k to get it all shipped in. It turned out I could only
afford the island I didn't want which was 4 hours from an Airport by small
boat. The one 5 minutes from the international airport by boat was 18 acres
and out of my league.

Wow, sure get off topic quick on this list.

On Mon, Nov 30, 2020 at 10:02 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-do-water-softeners-wo/
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Monday, November 30, 2020 9:46 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Water heaters
>
>
>
> No, the salt is used to make a brine that washes the hard water deposits
> off the resin beads.  It is then dumped overboard and the beads are
> rinsed.  Then your water flows through the beads again.  The beads only
> have so much capacity so the softening ability starts to decline as soon as
> it is put back in operation thus the need to set the regen cycle.  But it
> should not add any sodium to the eater if operating correctly.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Nov 30, 2020, at 7:59 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> 
>
> RO I assume is reverse osmosis.  That sounds like a great alternative to a
> water softener.  We had a water softener before our town got Lake Michigan
> water, and while they may be a minor pain, they are still a pain.  There’s
> the constant bags of salt of course.  But while it sounds so nice that your
> water is “soft”, in reality it is just replacing calcium with sodium, and
> I’m not sure it’s good to be drinking water with extra sodium.
>
>
>
> We did have separate plumbing for outdoor faucets that bypassed the water
> softener, I assume that’s standard practice?  Don’t need to water the grass
> with soft water, although some people might want it to wash the car.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Monday, November 30, 2020 8:35 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Water heaters
>
>
>
> I'll have to look at the brand I have. I have had tankless for about 25
> years now in 2 different houses. First, the electric ones suck and I
> wouldn't have one. The gas ones of either type are great. I had a Bosch for
> 20 years and I had to clean the firing tip with sandpaper twice in that
> time. That location had soft water and we had no water softener. The new
> house has two units that are plumbed together and if the demand gets too
> much for one the other fires up and keeps up with the floor. Found out
> recently though that they are not redundant. If the first one has issues
> the second one never comes on. Evidently many of these forced air jobs that
> have PVC exhaust pipes also have filters. Check you unit before installing
> it so that if yours has a filter that has to be cleaned once a year like
> mine, you can easily get to it.
>
> If you have hard water, definitely install a water softener in front of it
> to lengthen its service life. My new place with the dual ones has a big
> water softener. I am thinking if I ever build another I might get one of
> those whole house RO units. They have come down a lot in the last few years
> and you can now get a whole house RO that puts out 500 gallons a day for a
> couple thousand dollars. If you are smart enough to have home run plumbing
> done you could have one that is a lot less expensive only supply the hot
> water, sinks, dish washer, and ice maker.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 29, 2020 at 12:22 PM Colin Stanners 
> wrote:
>
> The latter brand is likely Rinnai or Rheem. I'm surprised that you saw
> issues with Takagi, I thought that they were a higher quality brand.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 29, 2020, 11:58 AM Chu

Re: [AFMUG] Water heaters

[Lewis Bergman]

sediment and when I cleared the valve I may have
>>>> cracked the liner, about every ten seconds I'm getting a drip on the
>>>> burner, and my pop off is dripping, probably some sediment.
>>>>
>>>> The water heater is the only thing I have that vents hot anymore and my
>>>> chimney leaks in driving rain. Is rather just bash it in and put a
>>>> dumbwaiter in the chase. I have the two fresh kids that I bet would have a
>>>> blast riding that.
>>>>
>>>> Power vent gas looks to almost double the cost.
>>>>
>>>> Tankless is looking almost comparable in price for gas, so I'm curious
>>>> if any of you guys run them without major water softener and filters.
>>>>
>>>> I'm planning on solar in the next 5 or 6 years when I redo my roof so
>>>> electric would be the thing I go with on the water heater after the one I'm
>>>> gonna have to put in now.
>>>>
>>>> I like gas water heaters because I know how to fix them, parts are
>>>> cheap, same with my clothes dryers. But theyve priced themselves into me
>>>> looking at my options.
>>>>
>>>> Tankless I dont know how to calculate gpm needs. But what led to this
>>>> was taking the flow reducer out of my low flow shower head and running out
>>>> of hot water in 20 minutes. I start my day by scalding myself for about a
>>>> half hour cause I'm a filthy bastard and need to be cleansed of my sins.
>>>> We have 2 bathrooms and a girl hitting her teens, so I assume we may be
>>>> getting into a shower and bath coming on at the same time and the wife
>>>> knowing what's good for her and washing dishes.
>>>> She wont let me put a wood stove and still in the bathroom, so wood
>>>> fired shower options are out.
>>>> Are residential boilers a thing? All my walls had pocket doors so I
>>>> have plenty of room for radiant walls, I dont know if boiler heat it even
>>>> efficient though.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Happy Thanksgiving breakfast

[Lewis Bergman]

I should have taken pictures of my Eggs Benedict. Learned to make them a
couple months back and I have it down now. Super Yummy, especially with a
Bloody Mary.

On Thu, Nov 26, 2020 at 11:01 AM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

>
> On Thu, Nov 26, 2020, 9:59 AM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> Picadillo y huevos con tortilla de harina.
>> Stay safe ...
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Utah monolith

[Lewis Bergman]

While interesting, it screws up the natural scenery. There isn't a whole
lot you can do to improve the big guy upstairs. Or girl, or whatever letter
you want to assign them.

On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 2:04 PM Bruce Robertson  wrote:

> It can't be related to 2001.  Its dimensions clearly aren't 1x4x9.
>
> On 11/24/20 11:57 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> My vote is for someone's art project.
>
> OTOH, maybe it's from Hugo Chavez.
>
> [image: The metal monolith found in a remote part of Utah.]
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 11/24/2020 11:47 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> So what’s with the monolith in the Utah desert?  I’m seeing alliterative
> headlines like “Mysterious Metal Monolith found in remote Utah desert”.
> Seems like something Jaime would post.  One of the articles said if it was
> art, the laws don’t allow anyone to install art in the desert, no matter
> what planet they’re from.
>
>
>
> Chuck, are you testing big panel antennas?  Some kind of cancer-causing
> covid-spreading 5G thing?  Or is this truly a monolith inspiring the next
> phase of hominid evolution?
>
> !DSPAM:5fbd65d45241663318612!
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Remote Hands Pricing

[Lewis Bergman]

$150 an hour plus mileage and travel

On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 11:08 AM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] 
wrote:

> We charge our base labor rate with a 2 hr minimum. $60/hr x 2.
>
> Jim Bouse
> Owner - Brazos WiFi
> 979-999-7000
> http://www.brazoswifi.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
> Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 11:03 AM
> To: Animal Farm 
> Subject: [AFMUG] Remote Hands Pricing
>
> Anybody do 'Remote hands' Services?  Just a body that will go to a
> location and follow directions.  I've had a request for it and I have no
> idea what to charge.  How do Datacenters price it, base Monthly price +
> time?
>
> Is it like  $400/month service or a $20/month service?  Seems like
> anything that will be less than the cost of them buying a plane ticket
> should be worth it to them.
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT

[Lewis Bergman]

I am not sure what everyone is so concerned about. This is only a small
stress test of the constitutional framework and the rules and laws that
have been put in place to flesh it out. FDR posed a much bigger risk to our
Republic than Trump. All this is going to do is

   - Make Trump look more
  - Desperate
  - Ignorant
  - Pathetic
   - Reinforce that we have the best (not perfect) governing system with
   transference of power in a peaceful manner demonstrated in full public view
   for the world to see. Not in the dark of night with a military coup, but
   with the rule of law.  Even if he does have to be dragged out of the White
   House (still betting he sits at the inauguration and acts like a mature
   adult) it will prove that while it may not be peaceful for him, it is a
   peaceful transition.

At the end of all this, most of the world will look at this and go "You
know, it isn't always the most organized but that ship over there always
rights itself".
We are the Weebles of governmental systems. We can knock ourselves over but
we just don't stay down. At some point we will, we will over burden
ourselves with more government than those of us who pay for it will stand
for. At that point, we will fail. Not because some guy in a stupidly shaped
office believes his ratings go up by imitating the kid who gets his ass
kicked at soccer so he decides to take his ball home.

On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 10:59 PM Robert  wrote:

> Let's hope he's not trying to go that far.  That would be just plain
> scary.   I was in the same frame of mind when he was elected as Tom
> Hanks.   "let's give him a chance and see what he does"  Unfortunately I am
> saddened by what we have seen and heard.  And I'm not talking media, but
> what I have seen and heard him directly say.
>
> On 11/20/20 8:53 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> Now I'm getting pissed and might go full jaime. Hes meeting with 2 states
> legislatures. Media never tells the truth about him so i dont know, but
> they say it's to get them to vote contrary to the polls on the electors.
> I'm fine with everything else they're doing, the only people who fear
> sunshine have something to hide, it's obvious a lot of people have
> something to hide, but if you cant prove fraud, you dont flip electors.
>
> On Fri, Nov 20, 2020, 7:05 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> Truth is a hard pill for many to swallow.
>>
>> Actual truth is, stop arguing over whether an instant replay is allowed,
>> do it, and move on
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 20, 2020, 9:56 AM Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/20/20 7:52 AM, Matt Corcoran wrote:
>>> > More like,  The game was won by 8 points, however the opposing team
>>> though it would be a good idea to allow footballs to be mailed to the
>>> endzone, then after everyone had left the stadium,   footballs just kept
>>> arriving.Oh and referees relabeled as judgmental bigots.
>>>
>>>
>>> That's an ignorant statement.
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
>>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: I was just thinking about Starlink...

[Lewis Bergman]

I was stupid. For years I never raised my prices. Actually, more like a
decade. I did some research, massaged the numbers, instituted a lot of my
own guessing into it all. I came up with $8.26 cents. That $8.26 was the
price I thought I could raise my base service by and not lose significant
numbers.

Due to marketing BS I decided on $8 even rais over a base package of 24.99.
Out of thousands I lost one person that cited that as a reason for them
leaving. Only 6 bothered to even complain. I felt really stupid for not
doing it sooner. Even if I missed it by a factor of 10 it still means I
could have been charging WAY more than what I was for most of that 10 years.

But, your point is correct, If they want to come back or even reset the
market economics won't make sense any longer. Or at least they likely won't.

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 1:48 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I'm watching news of the latest streaming service price increases.
> Everything seems to be like that, something new and "disruptive" comes out,
> kills off the competition, then they raise the prices.  It's like shopping
> at Walmart for 5 years and then the Walmart closes or starts to suck and
> you
> figure you'll go back to shopping at the local stores, except they no
> longer
> exist.  What, you thought the grocery and hardware and drug stores would
> just wait around with no revenue waiting for you to come back?
>
> That's why I figure when someone runs fiber down the country road, I won't
> bitch about losing the customers because they're getting something better
> and it's probably permanent infrastructure.  Anything else, like satellite
> or fixed wireless by mobile carriers, is tenuous.  But if it doesn't work
> out after a few years, you may not have a WISP to switch back to.  And one
> of the things I've realized (at least in my area), when a customer says
> this
> other guy was faster, they mean this other guy was cheaper.  Especially if
> they were on our lowest speed tier.  Price is everything.  If the
> advertised
> speed looks fantastic, so much the better, but price is king.  Free is
> better, but cheap will do.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert Andrews
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 1:26 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: I was just thinking about Starlink...
>
> Covid-23?   I believe I have seen a preview of that movie out...
>
> On 11/18/2020 11:17 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
> >
> > Let's just say for arguments sake that Starlink gets a functional
> > constellation in place with, oh, 2,000 satellites in orbit. Everything
> > goes just swell, and they grow the constellation to 4,000 satellites
> > by the end of 2022.
> >
> > In January 2023 the sun erupts with a massive CME and kills 75% of the
> > satellites. not to mention similar percentages of the GPS sats and
> > whatever else is in orbit at the time.
> >
> > Whoops.
> >
> > What next?
> >
>
> --
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>
>
>
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>


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Re: [AFMUG] OT Covid is over

[Lewis Bergman]

I always thought that when the 737 Max comes back the first year is exactly
when you want on that plane.

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 1:25 PM Robert Andrews 
wrote:

> Could this be the perfect finish for 2020?
>
> On 11/18/2020 11:13 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
> > may I please be excused from flying on a 737 max for a year or two?
> >
> >
> > bp
> > 
> >
> > On 11/18/2020 11:09 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> >>
> >>
> https://www.npr.org/2020/11/18/936080917/faa-gives-boeing-ok-to-resume-737-max-passenger-service
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
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>


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: I was just thinking about Starlink...

[Lewis Bergman]

Since they will provide the service at 1/50 the cost and half what you
charge you won't be in business so don't worry about it.
At least that is what everyone who gets out of a business always seems to
say about some tech advance.

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 1:17 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

>
> Let's just say for arguments sake that Starlink gets a functional
> constellation in place with, oh, 2,000 satellites in orbit. Everything
> goes just swell, and they grow the constellation to 4,000 satellites by
> the end of 2022.
>
> In January 2023 the sun erupts with a massive CME and kills 75% of the
> satellites. not to mention similar percentages of the GPS sats and
> whatever else is in orbit at the time.
>
> Whoops.
>
> What next?
>
> --
> bp
> 
>
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
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>


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Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues

[Lewis Bergman]

Or so he thinks. I hope it works out that way. it always seemed really
cheap to run a mail server, until you had to do it right. Then it came to
be very expensive. I surrendered and went to GMail. To each his own though.
I know you likely have a lot smarter people than me around so they will
likely handle it with no issue.

On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 12:40 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> Cost.  We have lots of accounts on it and lists and all kinds of other
> things.  We put in our own email server concurrent with a new domain.  So
> it will save a significant amount of money for us.
>
>
>
> *From:* Darin Steffl [mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 17, 2020 11:31 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] FW: OT windows update issues
>
>
>
> Why are you leaving Gmail? There's nothing better unless you need to live
> in the Microsoft ecosystem then you have office 365.
>
>
>
> We love Google apps for business and I use it for personal email too. They
> never let me down.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020, 11:59 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
> On top of all of this, we are migrating away from gmail today.  PITA
>
>
>
> *From:* Chuck McCown [mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 17, 2020 10:46 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* OT windows update issues
>
>
>
> So, today it appears that my Windows Live Mail database is corrupt.  Can
> only see headers.  So switching to outlook but that is painful.
>
> I rolled back the windows update that happened last night but still dead
> WLM… sob…
>
>
>
> Have resisted outlook for years.  Few times it would be nice.  When
> someone sends a meeting or contact at least I can read it without having to
> use a text editor and parsing through the complex crap…
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT A betting pool

[Lewis Bergman]

I used to love Dr. Pepper. Very sugary. Then decided that was bad for me
and went to Diet Dr. Pepper. Doc nixed that for diabetes reasons and
aforementioned studies. Actually the reason I quit was that I realized I
couldn't make it through a morning without nearly falling asleep or having
one. Decided I was addicted and quit.

Now I am left with Stevia (not yet discovered bad for you) is natural,
likely in the same way that stuff that leaks out of the Poppy flower is
natural. I am sure it causes brain cancer , Alzheimer or something.

On Sun, Nov 15, 2020 at 10:32 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> The trend with younger generations seems to be toward flavored water like
> Hint.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 15, 2020 10:16 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT A betting pool
>
>
>
> Were you drinking Tab?
>
>
>
> I used to drink Coke Classic, then for a long time tons of Diet Pepsi, now
> unsweetened tea like the Pure Leaf stuff in bottles.  Turns out I didn’t
> need the sweet taste, but gotta have caffeine.  Not into coffee, and I
> notice most people with their Starbucks drinks add so much sugar and milk
> they might as well order a milkshake.
>
>
>
> If artificial sweeteners are bad for you, a whole generation of women who
> lived on cigarettes and Sweet’N Low packets are doomed.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 15, 2020 9:44 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT A betting pool
>
>
>
> That's always been the case for me and my wife too for that matter. Both
> of us have on occasion picked up an artifically sweetened drink and it's
> just UGH! I don't know what it is about artificial sweeteners, they leave a
> metalic taste or something in my mouth. That would be an interesting study
> figuring out the differences between people who think artificial sweeteners
> are awful, and those who think they taste great.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
> On 11/15/2020 3:47 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>
> The studies I have read suggest that the artificial sweeteners change the
> way your cells react to sugar. I remember no more detail than that and
> likely wouldn't understand any more detail anyway. Just the takeaway "Ugh,
> diet soda bad". Which by the way, seems to be the result of nearly every
> study that isn't sponsored by some association. Like those studies that
> came out about coffee being really good for you sponsored by governments of
> coffee producers, then coffee makers, then coffee sellers.
>
>
>
> Like anyone needs another reason to drink coffee. I never have but  I
> think my wife would pick coffee over drugs. I don't think she has ever
> tried something like meth or heroin so maybe she would pick that.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 4:42 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
> According to what I've been reading in Science News for the last year or
> two, it appears that diet sodas (all kinds that I know of) have the effect
> of fooling your body into thinking it's had a dose of sugar. The body adds
> a dose of insulin, and bingo, you have type 2 diabetes. I don't know how
> many or for how long.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
> On 11/14/2020 12:11 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> One of the things I admired about George W Bush was he seemed to keep fit
> and follow a healthy lifestyle.
>
>
>
> Not that I personally do any of that, but I need a President to set a good
> example.  Neither Clinton nor Trump were good examples, except possibly
> from the viewpoint of a McDonalds stockholder.
>
>
>
> How many Diet Cokes do you need to drink to cancel out the calories from a
> Big Mac?  I’ve tried Thin Mints and it doesn’t work, you can eat boxes of
> those things and not get any thinner.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 14, 2020 1:17 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT A betting pool
>
>
>
> Same could be said for Slick Willy.
>
>
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 14, 2020 11:55 AM
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT A betting pool
>
>
>
> If you listen to Colbert, all they might need is a tray of Big Macs.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
> On 11/14/2020 10:51 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Like dragging a beached whale back to the sea?
>
> Actually, just park a big truck outside the White House and jingle the
> keys, and he’ll drive out, wearing his I Heart Trucks button and honking
> the horn.
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 14, 2020

Re: [AFMUG] OT A betting pool

[Lewis Bergman]

The studies I have read suggest that the artificial sweeteners change the
way your cells react to sugar. I remember no more detail than that and
likely wouldn't understand any more detail anyway. Just the takeaway "Ugh,
diet soda bad". Which by the way, seems to be the result of nearly every
study that isn't sponsored by some association. Like those studies that
came out about coffee being really good for you sponsored by governments of
coffee producers, then coffee makers, then coffee sellers.

Like anyone needs another reason to drink coffee. I never have but  I think
my wife would pick coffee over drugs. I don't think she has ever tried
something like meth or heroin so maybe she would pick that.

On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 4:42 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> According to what I've been reading in Science News for the last year or
> two, it appears that diet sodas (all kinds that I know of) have the effect
> of fooling your body into thinking it's had a dose of sugar. The body adds
> a dose of insulin, and bingo, you have type 2 diabetes. I don't know how
> many or for how long.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 11/14/2020 12:11 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> One of the things I admired about George W Bush was he seemed to keep fit
> and follow a healthy lifestyle.
>
>
>
> Not that I personally do any of that, but I need a President to set a good
> example.  Neither Clinton nor Trump were good examples, except possibly
> from the viewpoint of a McDonalds stockholder.
>
>
>
> How many Diet Cokes do you need to drink to cancel out the calories from a
> Big Mac?  I’ve tried Thin Mints and it doesn’t work, you can eat boxes of
> those things and not get any thinner.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 14, 2020 1:17 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT A betting pool
>
>
>
> Same could be said for Slick Willy.
>
>
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 14, 2020 11:55 AM
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT A betting pool
>
>
>
> If you listen to Colbert, all they might need is a tray of Big Macs.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
> On 11/14/2020 10:51 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Like dragging a beached whale back to the sea?
>
> Actually, just park a big truck outside the White House and jingle the
> keys, and he’ll drive out, wearing his I Heart Trucks button and honking
> the horn.
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 14, 2020 12:35 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT A betting pool
>
> Well, I would have suggested that he'll be dragged out kicking and
> screaming except that he appears to be mostly a pantywaist.
>
> bp
>
> 
>
> On 11/13/2020 10:31 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> Only morons raise their hand for that, or they redefine "escort"
>
> On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 3:37 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
> I would like to see a show of hands for those who think he will need to be
> escorted out of the White House?
>
> bp
>
> 
>
> On 11/13/2020 1:31 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> And another bet with him never conceding... but that is unfair.
>
> We would probably place that second bet.
>
> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
>
> *Sent:* Friday, November 13, 2020 2:29 PM
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* OT A betting pool
>
> I wish we could figure out how to make some money on this.
>
> Wapo shows it’s now done at 306 for Biden and 232 for Mt. T
>
> I will take Trump conceding December 14th at noon. $5
>
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


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-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT A betting pool

[Lewis Bergman]

According to a few studies diet soda is linked to obesity.

Honestly, I really don't see him having to be dragged out. Once he sees
opinion shift radically and he sees his base leaving he will follow them
out.

On Sat, Nov 14, 2020, 2:25 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> You could definitely lure ME out with a tray of cheeseburgers.
>
>
> On 11/14/2020 2:16 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> Same could be said for Slick Willy.
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 14, 2020 11:55 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT A betting pool
>
>
> If you listen to Colbert, all they might need is a tray of Big Macs.
>
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 11/14/2020 10:51 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Like dragging a beached whale back to the sea?
>
> Actually, just park a big truck outside the White House and jingle the
> keys, and he’ll drive out, wearing his I Heart Trucks button and honking
> the horn.
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 14, 2020 12:35 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT A betting pool
>
> Well, I would have suggested that he'll be dragged out kicking and
> screaming except that he appears to be mostly a pantywaist.
>
> bp
>
> 
>
> On 11/13/2020 10:31 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> Only morons raise their hand for that, or they redefine "escort"
>
> On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 3:37 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
> I would like to see a show of hands for those who think he will need to be
> escorted out of the White House?
>
> bp
>
> 
>
> On 11/13/2020 1:31 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> And another bet with him never conceding... but that is unfair.
>
> We would probably place that second bet.
>
> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
>
> *Sent:* Friday, November 13, 2020 2:29 PM
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* OT A betting pool
>
> I wish we could figure out how to make some money on this.
>
> Wapo shows it’s now done at 306 for Biden and 232 for Mt. T
>
> I will take Trump conceding December 14th at noon. $5
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT A betting pool

[Lewis Bergman]

https://www.thesportsgeek.com/sportsbooks/political/

On Fri, Nov 13, 2020 at 5:40 PM  wrote:

> I’m in.
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Friday, November 13, 2020 4:20 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT A betting pool
>
> I'm thinking the concession call will never happen.
>
> Who was the guy who ghost wrote Art of the Deal? Tony Schwartz? Way back
> in 2016, he thought that he would declare victory and quit. Well, he's
> declared victory, now all we need is for him to quit, and Tony will have
> been right.
>
> We need to set up a Bingo board with all the speculative outcomes First
> one with 5 right wins the kitty. If there are 25 of us with $5 each, one of
> us could walk away with $125.
>
> --
> bp
> part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 13, 2020 at 2:50 PM  wrote:
>
>> OK then to win the pool, Trump has to call Biden and wish him well.
>> Congratulate him on his victory.
>>
>> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>> *Sent:* Friday, November 13, 2020 3:48 PM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT A betting pool
>>
>>
>> You can’t bet on conceding unless you define “concede”.
>>
>>
>>
>> It’s like nobody apologizes anymore, they issue a non-apology apology.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-apology_apology
>>
>>
>>
>> The consensus seems to be he will eventually accept and move on but will
>> never concede, will probably never call Biden or congratulate him, very
>> possibly will not attend the inauguration.  Will forever claim he won.  The
>> L word is not in his vocabulary.  Like when Calvin slips and falls, then
>> gets up and goes “Ta-daa!”
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *Sent:* Friday, November 13, 2020 4:19 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT A betting pool
>>
>>
>>
>> Is that your bet?  $5
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Bill Prince
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, November 13, 2020 2:36 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT A betting pool
>>
>>
>>
>> I would like to see a show of hands for those who think he will need to
>> be escorted out of the White House?
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>>
>> 
>>
>> On 11/13/2020 1:31 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>
>> And another bet with him never conceding...  but that is unfair.
>>
>> We would probably place that second bet.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, November 13, 2020 2:29 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* OT A betting pool
>>
>>
>>
>> I wish we could figure out how to make some money on this.
>>
>>
>>
>> Wapo shows it’s now  done at 306 for Biden and 232 for Mt. T
>>
>>
>>
>> I will take Trump conceding December 14th at noon.  $5
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


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-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] Multiple carriers

[Lewis Bergman]

Something always breaks. I am not sure what carriers you are referring to
when you say switches shouldn't break. if it has current flowing through
it, it will break. Even if they are replacing something they believe will
prevent impending doom, chances are there will be some service impact as
they do their PM. Which is why everyone has maintenance windows.

I am sure it is possible to build a complete network with zero points of
failure. I am also pretty sure nobody wants to pay for it.

On Fri, Nov 13, 2020 at 9:23 AM Seth Mattinen  wrote:

> On 11/13/20 7:09 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> > Switches should not be crashing in a carrier environment.
>
>
> Then why consider multiple carriers? Just single home to one and be
> done. No worrying about the complexities of multiple providers if
> nothing ever breaks in a carrier environment.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


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325-439-0533 Cell
-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] Multiple carriers

[Lewis Bergman]

I remember trying to affect BGP routing and never being able to. Carriers
either don't support it or change their level of support. Never worked out.
Seems the best was just to buy what you could afford, the more the merrier,
then whittle it down to your top two % traffic carriers when the contract
comes up.

On Fri, Nov 13, 2020 at 7:40 AM Dennis Burgess via AF 
wrote:

> I would suggest maybe two 2 gig commits with 10gig ports uncapped.  This
> will allow either provider to go down and with good network design you can
> use multiple routers to prevent a outage of your equipment.  Should be
> cheaper than 4 1gig internet connections and better than one 10gig . 
>
>
>
> Dennis Burgess
>
> Mikrotik : Trainer, Network Associate, Routing Engineer, Wireless
> Engineer, Traffic Control Engineer, Inter-Networking Engineer, Security
> Engineer, Enterprise Wireless Engineer
> Hurricane Electric: IPv6 Sage Level
> Cambium: ePMP
>
> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
> Office: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
> Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 7:38 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Multiple carriers
>
> I like the curling analogy.  No perfect load balancing across the Internet.
>
> You can advertise the supernet out of all carriers and also advertise
> individual /24's out of the preferred carrier.  BGP will use the longer
> subnet mask first and fallback to the supernet.  If you have a bunch of
> non-contiguous allocations then obviously that's not an option, but if you
> have something bigger than a /24 then you can do it.
>
> I also would note that if Connection "A" goes down, connection "B", "C",
> or "D" might need to carry all the load and you may not know which way it
> will come in.  You can test and see what happens in a planned outage, and
> tweak your settings just so, but I don't think you can guarantee that
> topology upstream from you didn't change at some point between your testing
> and the eventual unplanned outage.  If you need 4Gb, then you might just
> need two 4Gb pipes to have meaningful redundancy.  Depends what you're
> willing to live with.  There's a saying that "slow is better than down",
> but IMO the phone blows up either which way so best to avoid either "slow"
> or "down" conditions.
>
> I'll also note that every time I've ordered a 1gig circuit they gave me
> GigE optics.  If you order anything bigger, even if it's 1.1Gig then it'll
> be a 10Gig interface by necessity.  An upgrade then is just a phone call,
> whereas the upgrade from 1Gig is a scheduled outage to swap interface cards.
>
>
> On 11/12/2020 7:15 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> > Right. Which is not ideal.
> >
> >> On Nov 12, 2020, at 7:11 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> >>
> >> There are smarter people than me here on the topic of BGP, but I
> >> believe load balancing via prepends is an inexact science.  It's like
> >> the guy with the broom in curling, you can influence but not dictate
> the outcome.
> >>
> >> You'd probably have better control advertising each subnet via just
> >> one of the upstream providers, but then you lose the advantage of
> redundant feeds.
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
> >> Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 5:45 PM
> >> To: af@af.afmug.com
> >> Subject: [AFMUG] Multiple carriers
> >>
> >> I have a situation where I can buy several 1 gigabit pipes from
> >> several top tier carriers relatively inexpensively.
> >> Or I can buy one fat pipe from one carrier.
> >>
> >> Say I need 4 gigabits of bandwidth and have four 1 gigabit pipes from
> >> 4 carriers running BGP, is there a best way to load balance these?
> >> Just AS pre-pend subsets on each carrier so certain subnets prefer one
> over another?
> >> Or is there a better way?
> >> --
> >> AF mailing list
> >> AF@af.afmug.com
> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> AF mailing list
> >> AF@af.afmug.com
> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
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> --
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>


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Mexican Political Discussion Team

[Lewis Bergman]

I wasn't trying to say genetic. I guess that is why I said Hispanic, which
to me is cultural/genetic

On Thu, Nov 12, 2020, 11:25 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

> Things like honesty and work ethic are probably more cultural than genetic.
>
> My Dad was very dark complected. When he was stationed in Trinidad the
> guys in his unit commented he was darker than the natives. AFAIK, all his
> ancestors came mostly from Germany.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 11/12/2020 9:18 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>
> I think so. Except they are generally more honest and work harder. You may
> not know many hispanics but I find it nearly impossible to tell the
> difference between an older hispanic man or woman and a "white" man or
> woman.
>
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2020 at 10:43 AM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> I was told the other day that mexicans are caucasian. I dont think thats
>> the truth, but I dont know.
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2020 at 9:28 AM Lewis Bergman 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> They all look very smart to me.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2020 at 8:34 AM Jaime Solorza 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> From last night's news...lol
>>>> --
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Lewis Bergman
>>> 325-439-0533 Cell
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Lewis Bergman
> 325-439-0533 Cell
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Mexican Political Discussion Team

[Lewis Bergman]

I think so. Except they are generally more honest and work harder. You may
not know many hispanics but I find it nearly impossible to tell the
difference between an older hispanic man or woman and a "white" man or
woman.

On Thu, Nov 12, 2020 at 10:43 AM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> I was told the other day that mexicans are caucasian. I dont think thats
> the truth, but I dont know.
>
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2020 at 9:28 AM Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:
>
>> They all look very smart to me.
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2020 at 8:34 AM Jaime Solorza 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> From last night's news...lol
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Lewis Bergman
>> 325-439-0533 Cell
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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>


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Mexican Political Discussion Team

[Lewis Bergman]

They all look very smart to me.

On Thu, Nov 12, 2020 at 8:34 AM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> From last night's news...lol
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
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>


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: The Silence is deafening..

[Lewis Bergman]

And if someone does legally arrive on a visa they should be given some path
to become a citizen in my opinion. They are already here working and
contributing more than some people who have decided that being born here
was enough. I know there is the whole "chain migration" thing and I haven't
thought that one out but I figure we still need a trade system. You give us
1000 people from Central America that work and we can give you a 1000
worthless POS that are on welfare.
The weather is nice enough down there that they don't really need houses.
They can sell bobbles on the beach for enough to feed themselves.

On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 10:52 AM  wrote:

> I am hopeful that Biden restores worker visas.  I think anyone that wants
> a 6 month work visa should be able to get one as long as they can pass a
> background check.
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 11, 2020 9:49 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: The Silence is deafening..
>
> Well, I hate to tell you but those cages were built during Obama's time in
> office. And really, calling them cages is just a bit on the inflammatory
> side. They are detention centers. Technically, you can call anything a cage
> with a boundary. Unless you are going to ask the CBP to stop doing their
> job, they are going to have to detain people.
>
> We can agree the immigration issue is a mess. Nobody in 30 years has
> really tried to fix it. We need a way for those who want to come here, who
> have an intent to work, no or little criminal history, to do so in an
> expeditious and inexpensive way. To continue on our current path of
> immigration dooms our economy to ruin as we are not producing enough
> offspring for a growing economy on our own.  You don't even have to argue
> about if it is right or wrong to have borders enforced. It is more about
> economic security than anything else.
>
> On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> I said Nationalism how nationalism led to Nazism...
>> Think about how many people were complicit not calling it out is
>> wrong... children in cages is wrong, separation of families is wrong, bans
>> on Muslims is wrong, pipes through Native American lands is wrong ,
>> Righteous Indignation.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 11, 2020, 8:36 AM Lewis Bergman 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Declaring any large movement today, meaning ones with millions of people
>>> in it, can't be compared to Nazis. You need to look back at history. not
>>> saying it couldn't eventually work its way to something closer. But it
>>> isn't even close. To say it is discounts how horrible Nazis were and what
>>> the Jewish people went through.
>>>
>>> The closest thing you could say is that Trump wants to be more like
>>> Harry Truman ( a Democrat ). Truman took it 10 steps further by locking up
>>> American citizens. Yes that was a time of war but it doesn't make it less
>>> wrong.
>>>
>>> Anyway, comparing anyone except those wacko white nationalists types to
>>> Nazis is just partisan hogwash.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 9:17 AM Adam Moffett 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> First, I don't think it's as bad as all that.  A lot of voting is more
>>>> "against the other guy" than voting *for* someone.  A lot of our press
>>>> is devoted to demonizing the other guy so that you'll vote against him.  If
>>>> you believed Joe Biden was a communist, corrupt, etc then maybe you'd
>>>> rather vote for the inept, xenophobic clown.  Not saying that's ok, but
>>>> saying I don't think it's as cult-like as Nazism.
>>>>
>>>> Second, I'm always annoyed by "prove me wrong" and even similar memes
>>>> like "change my mind".  "Reticulan lizard aliens secretly run the US
>>>> government and major corporations.  Prove me wrong."  Just because I don't
>>>> want to argue about whatever claim a person is making, does not mean I
>>>> accept their interpretation.
>>>> On 11/11/2020 10:01 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The scariest part is how many actually voted for an inept nationalist
>>>> xenophobic clown ...it portends of bad things ahead. Study history and you
>>>> will see how this nationalism fervor led to Nazi growth in Europe...
>>>> The proof is overwhelming...
>>>> Prove me wrong.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 9:41 PM Steve Jones 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I cant take credit on that o

Re: [AFMUG] OT: The Silence is deafening..

[Lewis Bergman]

Well, I hate to tell you but those cages were built during Obama's time in
office. And really, calling them cages is just a bit on the
inflammatory side. They are detention centers. Technically, you can call
anything a cage with a boundary. Unless you are going to ask the CBP to
stop doing their job, they are going to have to detain people.

We can agree the immigration issue is a mess. Nobody in 30 years has really
tried to fix it. We need a way for those who want to come here, who have an
intent to work, no or little criminal history, to do so in an expeditious
and inexpensive way. To continue on our current path of immigration dooms
our economy to ruin as we are not producing enough offspring for a growing
economy on our own.  You don't even have to argue about if it is right or
wrong to have borders enforced. It is more about economic security than
anything else.

On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> I said Nationalism how nationalism led to Nazism...
> Think about how many people were complicit not calling it out is
> wrong... children in cages is wrong, separation of families is wrong, bans
> on Muslims is wrong, pipes through Native American lands is wrong ,
> Righteous Indignation.
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 11, 2020, 8:36 AM Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:
>
>> Declaring any large movement today, meaning ones with millions of people
>> in it, can't be compared to Nazis. You need to look back at history. not
>> saying it couldn't eventually work its way to something closer. But it
>> isn't even close. To say it is discounts how horrible Nazis were and what
>> the Jewish people went through.
>>
>> The closest thing you could say is that Trump wants to be more like Harry
>> Truman ( a Democrat ). Truman took it 10 steps further by locking up
>> American citizens. Yes that was a time of war but it doesn't make it less
>> wrong.
>>
>> Anyway, comparing anyone except those wacko white nationalists types to
>> Nazis is just partisan hogwash.
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 9:17 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>
>>> First, I don't think it's as bad as all that.  A lot of voting is more
>>> "against the other guy" than voting *for* someone.  A lot of our press
>>> is devoted to demonizing the other guy so that you'll vote against him.  If
>>> you believed Joe Biden was a communist, corrupt, etc then maybe you'd
>>> rather vote for the inept, xenophobic clown.  Not saying that's ok, but
>>> saying I don't think it's as cult-like as Nazism.
>>>
>>> Second, I'm always annoyed by "prove me wrong" and even similar memes
>>> like "change my mind".  "Reticulan lizard aliens secretly run the US
>>> government and major corporations.  Prove me wrong."  Just because I don't
>>> want to argue about whatever claim a person is making, does not mean I
>>> accept their interpretation.
>>> On 11/11/2020 10:01 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>>>
>>> The scariest part is how many actually voted for an inept nationalist
>>> xenophobic clown ...it portends of bad things ahead. Study history and you
>>> will see how this nationalism fervor led to Nazi growth in Europe...
>>> The proof is overwhelming...
>>> Prove me wrong.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 9:41 PM Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I cant take credit on that one
>>>>
>>>> Heres some crazy stuff, I'm pretty sure offering up campaign funds for
>>>> anything other than a campaign is illegal.
>>>> I told you guys, this is gonna get hilarious. By the time it's all said
>>>> and done, theyll find 100 percent evidence biden cheated and there will be
>>>> no republicans left not in prison for the RNC to put in the big seat.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.thedailybeast.com/texas-lt-gov-dan-patrick-offers-dollar1-million-in-campaign-funds-for-voter-fraud-evidence
>>>>
>>>> Was reading another article from one of the mainstreams about what
>>>> happens if there is no certification and the congress has to vote in a new
>>>> potus, apparently it's not limited to the two candidates, it's got to do
>>>> with aggregate votes and would potentially leave bernie sanders in a
>>>> position to be president. Its was MSM and they're full of shit all the time
>>>> but it sounded good. Can you imagine that, the dnc fucked this guy over
>>>> twice in a concerted effort, particularly in 2016 when he had a real good
>>>> chance of beating the republican., and then he pulls that feat off. I'd
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Customers contacting technical support - Adam I have no idea why the would drive you crazy cause I just love putting messages in the subject line cause that way, you know, nobody has to ev

[Lewis Bergman]

I just could not resist.

On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 9:41 AM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> JFC Lewis.
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 9:20 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> This is the turd-cherry on top of my day.
>>
>>
>> On 11/10/2020 8:13 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 6:36 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>
>>> People putting their message into the subject drives me berserk.
>>> On 11/9/2020 11:31 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>
>>> We have one customer that constantly replies to whatever last
>>> communication he gets but put his whole communication in the subject line
>>> so it gets cut off. I dont even know how he does it, its gotta be something
>>> like he has everything coming into a text message app or something like
>>> that.
>>> Point is, no matter how much we try, customers will always make things
>>> as hard as possible
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 9, 2020, 9:30 AM Josh Luthman 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is what we do, a no reply and reject messages to it.
>>>>
>>>> Josh Luthman
>>>> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>>> Suite 1337
>>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 10:23 AM Bill Prince 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> +1.
>>>>>
>>>>> You could put your billing and/or support email addresses as a note
>>>>> somewhere on the statement/invoice, but make the reply address for it
>>>>> a
>>>>> no-reply address.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> bp
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/9/2020 7:06 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>>>> > send the billing e-mails from:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > no-rep...@yourisp.com
>>>>> >
>>>>> > We direct everyone to submit support requests through out website,
>>>>> > which funnels questions.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On 11/9/20 9:26 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
>>>>> >> Our billing system sends out emails telling the customer that they
>>>>> >> successfully paid their bill. Increasingly, customers are just
>>>>> >> finding the last billing email, and replying to that with service
>>>>> >> problems. Usually with some vague single line reply like 'I Can't
>>>>> >> watch a movie' or 'Why is the internet slow'
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> They don't even bother to change the subject line.  I'm guessing
>>>>> >> Comcast or AT wouldn't respond to requests like this. Should I?
>>>>> >> What are your views on contacting technical support. Ignore them
>>>>> >> unless they go through the proper channels?
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Lewis Bergman
>> 325-439-0533 Cell
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Thanks

[Lewis Bergman]

Completely unnecessary in my book. One of the best things I have heard a
veteran say is "*Thank you for my service*"
At first, when I heard that, I thought it sounded arrogant and elitist.
I think he meant it the same way as I feel. It was an honor and a
privilege to serve and I appreciated the opportunity to not only do it but
to get paid to do it.

On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 9:43 AM  wrote:

> Veterans.  I did not serve.
> But I do respect and thank you for your service.
>
>
> Please note my new email address: ch...@go-mtc.com
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: The Silence is deafening..

[Lewis Bergman]

I just find it hard to believe that either one of these clowns is the best
we can do. Both in their upper 70's. One cares so little about the office
he will say anything. The other, well I am just not sure how much gas he
has in the tank. It would be great if someone honest would run and get
elected but our system makes that an impossibility.

We have a minimum age for presidents. The founders never thought anyone in
their 70's would be alive and able to hold office. We should have an
amendment for a maximum age for President, Congress and Senate. For god
sake there is an age limit for commercial pilots and FAA controllers.
Should there be one for an important office? What was the crypt keeper that
died  a while back? Strom Thurman or something? I think he was old enough
he actually owned slaves. Ok maybe not owned them but his uncle probably
did.

On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 9:33 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> All that said, Jamie, I don't understand why people vote for him either.
> Every time I listen to him talk I think he sounds like an idiot.
>
>
> On 11/11/2020 10:16 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>
> First, I don't think it's as bad as all that.  A lot of voting is more
> "against the other guy" than voting *for* someone.  A lot of our press is
> devoted to demonizing the other guy so that you'll vote against him.  If
> you believed Joe Biden was a communist, corrupt, etc then maybe you'd
> rather vote for the inept, xenophobic clown.  Not saying that's ok, but
> saying I don't think it's as cult-like as Nazism.
>
> Second, I'm always annoyed by "prove me wrong" and even similar memes like
> "change my mind".  "Reticulan lizard aliens secretly run the US government
> and major corporations.  Prove me wrong."  Just because I don't want to
> argue about whatever claim a person is making, does not mean I accept their
> interpretation.
> On 11/11/2020 10:01 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>
> The scariest part is how many actually voted for an inept nationalist
> xenophobic clown ...it portends of bad things ahead. Study history and you
> will see how this nationalism fervor led to Nazi growth in Europe...
> The proof is overwhelming...
> Prove me wrong.
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 9:41 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> I cant take credit on that one
>>
>> Heres some crazy stuff, I'm pretty sure offering up campaign funds for
>> anything other than a campaign is illegal.
>> I told you guys, this is gonna get hilarious. By the time it's all said
>> and done, theyll find 100 percent evidence biden cheated and there will be
>> no republicans left not in prison for the RNC to put in the big seat.
>>
>> https://www.thedailybeast.com/texas-lt-gov-dan-patrick-offers-dollar1-million-in-campaign-funds-for-voter-fraud-evidence
>>
>> Was reading another article from one of the mainstreams about what
>> happens if there is no certification and the congress has to vote in a new
>> potus, apparently it's not limited to the two candidates, it's got to do
>> with aggregate votes and would potentially leave bernie sanders in a
>> position to be president. Its was MSM and they're full of shit all the time
>> but it sounded good. Can you imagine that, the dnc fucked this guy over
>> twice in a concerted effort, particularly in 2016 when he had a real good
>> chance of beating the republican., and then he pulls that feat off. I'd
>> love it. I hate his policies, and hed have zero chance of implementing 95
>> percent of them, but I'd pay to watch that happen.
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 9:37 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>
>>> I might have to write that one down.
>>>
>>> On 11/10/2020 10:32 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>> > Hard times breed strong men, string men breed good times, good times
>>> > breed weak men, weak men breed hard times.
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: The Silence is deafening..

[Lewis Bergman]

Declaring any large movement today, meaning ones with millions of people in
it, can't be compared to Nazis. You need to look back at history. not
saying it couldn't eventually work its way to something closer. But it
isn't even close. To say it is discounts how horrible Nazis were and what
the Jewish people went through.

The closest thing you could say is that Trump wants to be more like Harry
Truman ( a Democrat ). Truman took it 10 steps further by locking up
American citizens. Yes that was a time of war but it doesn't make it less
wrong.

Anyway, comparing anyone except those wacko white nationalists types to
Nazis is just partisan hogwash.

On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 9:17 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> First, I don't think it's as bad as all that.  A lot of voting is more
> "against the other guy" than voting *for* someone.  A lot of our press is
> devoted to demonizing the other guy so that you'll vote against him.  If
> you believed Joe Biden was a communist, corrupt, etc then maybe you'd
> rather vote for the inept, xenophobic clown.  Not saying that's ok, but
> saying I don't think it's as cult-like as Nazism.
>
> Second, I'm always annoyed by "prove me wrong" and even similar memes like
> "change my mind".  "Reticulan lizard aliens secretly run the US government
> and major corporations.  Prove me wrong."  Just because I don't want to
> argue about whatever claim a person is making, does not mean I accept their
> interpretation.
> On 11/11/2020 10:01 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>
> The scariest part is how many actually voted for an inept nationalist
> xenophobic clown ...it portends of bad things ahead. Study history and you
> will see how this nationalism fervor led to Nazi growth in Europe...
> The proof is overwhelming...
> Prove me wrong.
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 9:41 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> I cant take credit on that one
>>
>> Heres some crazy stuff, I'm pretty sure offering up campaign funds for
>> anything other than a campaign is illegal.
>> I told you guys, this is gonna get hilarious. By the time it's all said
>> and done, theyll find 100 percent evidence biden cheated and there will be
>> no republicans left not in prison for the RNC to put in the big seat.
>>
>> https://www.thedailybeast.com/texas-lt-gov-dan-patrick-offers-dollar1-million-in-campaign-funds-for-voter-fraud-evidence
>>
>> Was reading another article from one of the mainstreams about what
>> happens if there is no certification and the congress has to vote in a new
>> potus, apparently it's not limited to the two candidates, it's got to do
>> with aggregate votes and would potentially leave bernie sanders in a
>> position to be president. Its was MSM and they're full of shit all the time
>> but it sounded good. Can you imagine that, the dnc fucked this guy over
>> twice in a concerted effort, particularly in 2016 when he had a real good
>> chance of beating the republican., and then he pulls that feat off. I'd
>> love it. I hate his policies, and hed have zero chance of implementing 95
>> percent of them, but I'd pay to watch that happen.
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 9:37 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>
>>> I might have to write that one down.
>>>
>>> On 11/10/2020 10:32 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>> > Hard times breed strong men, string men breed good times, good times
>>> > breed weak men, weak men breed hard times.
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: The Silence is deafening..

[Lewis Bergman]

You mean Jimmy Carter?

On Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 6:23 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> No...Nixon won his second term...I was there...
> He didn't finish it..
> Not like El One Term..
>
> On Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 2:49 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> and I think Nixon was up for reelection. Obama was a lame duck.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 11/10/2020 1:39 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> yeah, i guess its not new, at least Obama was better looking
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 3:26 PM Lewis Bergman 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Uhhh Nixon
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 3:12 PM Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> it used to be sitting presidents didnt spy on incoming presidents, or
>>>> at least get caught in the act.
>>>> I dont think there will be much of  a pulpit left for anyone. The left
>>>> had already "unfriended anyone who disagreed with them and isolated
>>>> themselves, then attacked any public space where any dissent would sit. so
>>>> the "racists" (a term used by morons with no depth) started moving
>>>> elsewhere with their time and money.
>>>> Nobody really listens to anything outside what they want to hear, so
>>>> pulpits arent very relevant today. but kids are remote now, less
>>>> indoctrination, so theyll start being "racists" soon too. You lose a ton of
>>>> control when you lose a year of indoctrination.
>>>> It is kind of fun watching whats going on at fox lately. Things started
>>>> turning when that bigot smith left, I didnt care for his hate, but I liked
>>>> 90 percent of his reporting. but once he left it was like they tried to
>>>> fill the agenda void internally and it turned into a pundit brawl. Hannity
>>>> went the way of Glenn beck, its a matter of time til hes wearing kleenex
>>>> box shoes and talking to cats, Tucker went from being a fun prick to just
>>>> being a prick, levin doesnt even hide his hatred of jews anymore, Its like
>>>> they decided they wanted to be jokes like lemon, cuomo, and cooper, but
>>>> multiplied to below the levels of msnbc, ratings reflective.
>>>>
>>>> this whole thing is literally hilarious, watching the mirror image of
>>>> 2016 happen. the arrogant hypocrisy is great. I have to admit, I havent
>>>> been keeping up on most of it, since i watched it all in the 2016 season.
>>>> But I do enjoy the highlight reels. The best part of it is watching the
>>>> "winners"  still melting down, as expected. I am kinda disapponted that the
>>>> "losing" team isnt our burning cities like they 2016 losers did, but I
>>>> guess nobody expected anything different in that regard, turds dont polish.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 2:34 PM  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Used to be that former presidents never criticized sitting
>>>>> presidents.
>>>>>
>>>>> That went out the window with Obama/Trump.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, it will be interesting to see if anyone will give Trump a pulpit
>>>>> from which to speak.  Will he become a fox news feature?  Perhaps at Miss
>>>>> America he will pontificate.  I am sure he will not be able to resist
>>>>> seeking publicity.
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 10, 2020 1:26 PM
>>>>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: The Silence is deafening..
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hmmm, I forgot he is DJ Trump.  Maybe his next career can be as a
>>>>> rapper, he already has the name.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 10, 2020 2:08 PM
>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: The Silence is deafening..
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> www.loser.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Nov 10, 2020, 8:03 AM Steve Jones 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> This is why the left cant meme. The lack of detail. Memelords would
>>>>> never have allowed that tie to make it through QC. 1/10
>>>>&g

Re: [AFMUG] OT: The Silence is deafening..

[Lewis Bergman]

t;> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gateway_Pundit#cite_note-17>
>>
>>
>>
>> If someone has credible evidence that would overturn the election, it
>> should absolutely be brought before the courts. At the moment, all of the
>> evidence seems to point to a fair election where Donald Trump lost by over
>> 4,000,000 votes.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 7:34 PM Jaime Solorza 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Bullshit ..pure Bullshit
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 9, 2020, 5:39 PM justsumname  wrote:
>>
>> this thing is just getting started, gents.   It's only Monday.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/breaking-ag-barr-authorizes-federal-prosecutors-pursue-substantial-allegations-voting-irregularities-2020-election-certified/
>>
>>
>>
>> RealClearPolitics un-calls Pennsylvania for Biden.   The state is grey on
>> their map, now.   Was Blue yesterday.
>>
>>
>>
>> I do not understand the vitriol against Mr Trump.   He's been an
>> excellent President for all Americans.
>>
>> No I didn't ask... I can read everyone's comments, and I have.   For
>> years.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 6:16 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>> I wish they could invent a secure method to vote online.  But it has to
>> be resistant to buying and selling votes.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 9, 2020, at 3:52 PM, Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> It's pretty straight forward to verify integrity of the vote. We have
>> already dont it with covid test results. We are blind ballot meaning no one
>> can see who you voted for. Covid result eliminated anyone's ability to
>> claim their vote was stolen or manipulated since you can check your results
>> with your code. You can do the same without recording a name.
>>
>> If there is any question of validity in a count, it can be verified,
>> fairly quickly.
>>
>>
>>
>> Covid built us a system to have a secure vote. Inadvertant side effects
>> are the best side effects.
>>
>> You register, you are assigned your key. Your registration can be
>> verified legitimate. You can even vote online. The tracing infrastructure
>> can be used to canvass a contested district for verification of vote
>> accuracy.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is the last election where fraud can be claimed... inadvertant, as
>> is most of the left's mistakes
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 9, 2020, 12:20 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>> The advantage to that is that the records will probably last a long time.
>> OTOH, storage might become an issue.
>>
>> bp
>>
>> 
>>
>> On 11/9/2020 10:16 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>>
>> In our county, we have to quarry a stone tablet, cart it down to the
>> office, make an X with a tar crayon, and be able to lift on to the ballet
>> cart to have the vote count.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 10:10 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> Our county typically uses touchscreen machines for in-person voting, both
>> early and day-of.  (A paper tape record is also printed out and can be
>> verified by the voter)  Obviously these are very quick to process.
>>
>>
>>
>> Early voting sites were open for 15 days prior to the election.  In
>> addition, there was one early voting site open 40 days prior to the
>> election, but it used paper ballots.  Basically you filled out the same
>> form as a mail-in ballot, sealed it, and dropped it in a box.  That’s how I
>> voted and I was disappointed that was the process, I thought they would
>> scan them through a “tabulator” as the last step, just like back when we
>> used paper ballots for day-of voting.  I expected as the last step before
>> leaving I would feed the paper ballot into a scanner.  Instead I sealed it
>> in an envelope and dropped it in a box.
>>
>>
>>
>> All the paper ballots including early in-person and mail-in were required
>> to sit in the locked boxes until something like 7am on election day before
>> they could start processing them.  This was apparently also the case in
>> many battleground states.  They weren’t even allowed to open the envelopes,
>> uncrease the forms, check signatures, nothing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
>> *Sent:* Monday, November 9, 2020 9:52 AM
>> *T

Re: [AFMUG] Customers contacting technical support - Adam I have no idea why the would drive you crazy cause I just love putting messages in the subject line cause that way, you know, nobody has to ev

[Lewis Bergman]

On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 6:36 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> People putting their message into the subject drives me berserk.
> On 11/9/2020 11:31 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> We have one customer that constantly replies to whatever last
> communication he gets but put his whole communication in the subject line
> so it gets cut off. I dont even know how he does it, its gotta be something
> like he has everything coming into a text message app or something like
> that.
> Point is, no matter how much we try, customers will always make things as
> hard as possible
>
> On Mon, Nov 9, 2020, 9:30 AM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> This is what we do, a no reply and reject messages to it.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 10:23 AM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>>> +1.
>>>
>>> You could put your billing and/or support email addresses as a note
>>> somewhere on the statement/invoice, but make the reply address for it a
>>> no-reply address.
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>> On 11/9/2020 7:06 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>> > send the billing e-mails from:
>>> >
>>> > no-rep...@yourisp.com
>>> >
>>> > We direct everyone to submit support requests through out website,
>>> > which funnels questions.
>>> >
>>> > On 11/9/20 9:26 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
>>> >> Our billing system sends out emails telling the customer that they
>>> >> successfully paid their bill. Increasingly, customers are just
>>> >> finding the last billing email, and replying to that with service
>>> >> problems. Usually with some vague single line reply like 'I Can't
>>> >> watch a movie' or 'Why is the internet slow'
>>> >>
>>> >> They don't even bother to change the subject line.  I'm guessing
>>> >> Comcast or AT wouldn't respond to requests like this. Should I?
>>> >> What are your views on contacting technical support. Ignore them
>>> >> unless they go through the proper channels?
>>> >>
>>> >
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
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AF mailing list
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: The Silence is deafening..

[Lewis Bergman]

020 11:08 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Stop the vote in Pennsylvania but keep counting in Arizona.  It’s a
> Maxwell’s Demon approach.  Open the door when it helps me, close the door
> when it helps the other guy.
>
> That’s probably why the Supremes stopped the recounts in Bush v Gore, the
> Gore camp wanted to keep looking for errors but only in the counties where
> they thought it would help them.  But also the votes had already been
> counted (and recounted).  And there was the original Florida Man, some guy
> named Hanging Chad?  And the phone call and the retraction.
>
> Democrats to this day take it as gospel that Gore was robbed.  That does
> not bode well for half the country moving on from this election.
>
> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com  *On
> Behalf Of *Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 8, 2020 12:02 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: The Silence is deafening..
>
> In Michigan we're demanding a recount. In Wisconsin we're demanding a
> decount. In Georgia it's opposites day.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LmFVEi5Jd0
>
> bp
>
> 
>
> On 11/7/2020 8:27 PM, justsumname wrote:
>
> The declaration that Biden has won is premature.   This thing hasn't
> really gotten started yet.
>
> Judges don't hold court on the weekends.
>
> --
>
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 6:40 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
> Yes good movie.
>
> More akin to today is Seven Days in May...March, Douglas, Lancaster...
>
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2020, 4:22 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> The Founding Fathers didn’t account for the rise of political parties,
> which came soon enough.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Electoral_College#Original_plan
>
> Somehow I’m reminded of the movie The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance.  Set
> in the fading days of the old west with territories becoming states and
> deciding who to elect as their representatives.  Should it be Jimmy Stewart
> the righteous lawyer, or Lee Marvin the outlaw gang leader?  The old
> fashioned idea that you sent the brightest and best educated person to
> Washington to represent you.  Hah!  Politicians are not held in great
> esteem today, and we would probably vote for Liberty Valance.  I assume
> everyone has seen the movie.  It’s an old John Ford western, in fact he
> shot it in B, but it’s a must see.  Look at the cast – Jimmy Stewart,
> John Wayne, Lee Marvin, Vera Miles, Andy Devine, Edmond O’Brien, John
> Caradine, Lee Van Cleef.
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 7, 2020 4:46 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: The Silence is deafening..
>
> The three-fifths compromise was enacted long before California existed.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-fifths_Compromise
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
> On 11/7/2020 12:54 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>
> U. No. The EC was created so that California has the same voice power
> as Rhode Island.
>
> On Nov 7, 2020, at 3:17 PM, Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com
>  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Could have been over on Tuesday if we didn't have the silly Electoral
> College shenanigans; which actually evolved from the crazy slave is 3/5 of
> a person nonsense. Here we are ~~ 250 years later and we're still dealing
> with decisions we made about slaves.
>
> bp
>
> 
>
> On 11/7/2020 11:15 AM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>
> We have spoken.
>
> Righteous Indignation
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
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-- 
AF mailing list
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: The Silence is deafening..

[Lewis Bergman]

Well the great thing about our system is that it allows us to survive a
crappy president pretty well. We did the last one, this one will likely be
a lot less crappy, but still crappy. And the next crappy one after that.

On Sat, Nov 7, 2020 at 3:00 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> My friend Tom Ingle, a trump supporter sent me this!!!
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2020, 12:43 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> Rotflmao
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 7, 2020, 1:16 PM Jaime Solorza 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> We have spoken.
>>>
>>> Righteous Indignation
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] VoIP emulation of Key system

[Lewis Bergman]

You could configure the phone to disable the hold button and only give them
park. At least on the Yealinks we use you could. Don't know what you are
using.

On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 7:58 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> I suppose plan B would be to just install an actual key system and ATA's.
>
>
> On 11/6/2020 8:54 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>
> People are stupid.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Adam Moffett"  
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> 
> *Sent: *Friday, November 6, 2020 7:45:38 AM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] VoIP emulation of Key system
>
> This drives me crazy.  Small businesses have had key telephone systems
> for 50 years.  They have a button for each physical line, they put a
> call on hold, and then shout across the building, "Hey JOEY! Line 3 is
> for you!"  Then Joey pushes line 3 on his phone.
>
> You can't get these people to do a transfer.  Park buttons are an ok
> stopgap, but not the same because now they have two ways to put a call
> on hold and they have to remember NOT to use the clearly marked "hold"
> button.  Is there a particular VoIP phone or VoIP system that can
> reliably emulate a key system?
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell
-- 
AF mailing list
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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Definite Political: The Election

[Lewis Bergman]

Probably one of those grass is greener deals. We have the vote and look at
what a mess we have made of it. I live in Texas as you know. If you are in
Texas and lean Libretarian or Democrat you only have a say in local
elections, not in statewide elections or for the most part even house
seats. The same but opposite in the left leaning states. Your vote only
really counts in the purple states.
Of course Libertarians are screwed no matter where they live since we all
are stuck in the two party system. I wish ranked non party primary voting
would be instituted but because the two parties that would likely be hurt
the most would have to implement it that won't happen.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 2:29 AM Gino A. Villarini  wrote:

> Its enticing… but at the end of the day.. we don’t have any say on what
> happens here… imagine your state not having ant representation on Congress…
>
>
>
> *From: *AF 
> *Date: *Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 7:51 PM
> *To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: Definite Political: The Election
>
> I dunno, if I was going to start a new business that was conducive to
> being in PR and it was going to make a lot of money, they don’t have
> federal income tax.
>
>
>
> *From:* SmarterBroadband
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 4, 2020 4:38 PM
>
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Definite Political: The Election
>
>
>
> You should be a State.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Gino A.
> Villarini
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 4, 2020 7:06 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Definite Political: The Election
>
>
>
> Its non-bidding … so we continue to be a colony…
>
>
>
> *From: *AF 
> *Date: *Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 9:59 AM
> *To: *af@af.afmug.com 
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: Definite Political: The Election
>
> My understanding is that it is non-binding. I personally think it might be
> good for them, but I believe that it would require a vote of congress.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
> On 11/4/2020 5:55 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> Does this mean you will become a state?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Nov 4, 2020, at 2:49 AM, Gino A. Villarini mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Statehood won with about 55% on yesterday event…
>
>
>
> *Gino* *Villarini *
> Founder/President
> @gvillarini
> t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
>
> [image: Image removed by sender. Image removed by sender. aeronet-logo]
> <http://www.aeronetpr.com>
>
> [image: Image removed by sender. Image removed by sender. inc500]
> <https://www.inc.com/profile/aeronet>
>
> [image: Image removed by sender. Image removed by sender. fb-logo]
> <https://www.facebook.com/aeronetpr>
>
> [image: Image removed by sender. Image removed by sender. insta-logo]
> <https://www.instagram.com/aeronetpr/?hl=en>
>
> [image: Image removed by sender. Image removed by sender. in-logo]
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/aeronet-broadband-corp>
>
> [image: Image removed by sender. Image removed by sender. tw-logo]
> <https://twitter.com/AeroNetPR?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor>
>
>
> [image: Image removed by sender. Image removed by sender. yt-logo]
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr2Q9WBrAYVm3Fn970Jd6VA>
>
> www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
>
> *From: *AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
> *Date: *Wednesday, November 4, 2020 at 12:50 AM
> *To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: Definite Political: The Election
>
> prettyhyped that west side story is on netflix. I literally cut through
> our vinyl west side story, and spun out the betamax on it.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 3, 2020 at 10:05 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> They've had referendums go either direction.
>
> Here's everything I know about Puerto Rico:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPlcE3GcoFc
>
> Bernardo: "I think I go back to San Juan."
>
> Anita: "I know a boat you can get on."
>
> Bernardo: "When I get back there will be big cheer."
>
> Anita:"Everyone there will have moved here."
>
>
>
> >
> > also, does PR even want to be a state? I never knew for sure. I think
> > they should be if they want, but why would you want to gain the
> > responsibility of statehood when you already have the benefit
> >
>
>
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
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>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Stopping tower rust

[Lewis Bergman]

Surface rust is of absolutely no consequence. I have black iron towers that
were constructed 40 years ago that have substantial surface rust. While not
pretty, it is structurally insignificant. If it looks more like discoloring
than rust, which if the galv is good is what it usually looks like, I would
do nothing. Anything you do to fix it will likely speed the rusting process
up. For instance, you could use naval jelly
<https://content.interlinebrands.com/product/document/10146/441423_TechSheet.pdf>,
which would remove all the rust. If it is galv and not SS, the acid will
eat more of the galv coating off and it will rust faster from then on
unless you paint it. Then you are stuck painting a galv tower which is a
PITA, expensive, and will eventually look even worse. Paint, even when
applied correctly with the correct prep, just doesn't adhere to galv well.

Sleep tight, don't worry, take the do nothing decision tree.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 5:31 AM Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> Could it be a zinc galvanized steel instead of stainless?  I assumed
> stainless due to the very limited rust.
>
> On Nov 5, 2020, at 6:27 AM, Matt Hoppes 
> wrote:
>
> 
> Ok. So then maybe it’s not an issue. It does just appear to be surface.
>
> On Nov 4, 2020, at 11:13 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Apparently regular steel and stainless steel both “rust”.  But stainless
> forms a thin stable protective layer of chromium oxide, while regular steel
> turns to unstable iron oxide which just grows and grows.
>
>
>
> https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-doesnt-stainless-stee/
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 4, 2020 9:22 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Stopping tower rust
>
>
>
> Certainly not stronger and twice the expense.
>
>
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 4, 2020 8:07 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Stopping tower rust
>
>
>
> I would assume this wasn't a slip of the tongue. Just surprised that
> anyone would build a tower out of stainless steel. Chuck would likely know
> but I am pretty sure stainless is softer than regular steel.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 8:24 AM Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
> We have a stainless steel tower that’s probably about 30 years old. Good
> shape. But I noticed some minor rust developing on the surface of some
> cross members and a few climbing pegs.
>
> What’s the best way to stop this and protect the tower?
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Lewis Bergman
>
> 325-439-0533 Cell
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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> AF@af.afmug.com
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Stopping tower rust

[Lewis Bergman]

I would assume this wasn't a slip of the tongue. Just surprised that anyone
would build a tower out of stainless steel. Chuck would likely know but I
am pretty sure stainless is softer than regular steel.

On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 8:24 AM Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> We have a stainless steel tower that’s probably about 30 years old. Good
> shape. But I noticed some minor rust developing on the surface of some
> cross members and a few climbing pegs.
>
> What’s the best way to stop this and protect the tower?
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


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Re: [AFMUG] NAT Slipstreaming - or how to attack any internal host behind NAT

[Lewis Bergman]

If they actually have SIP devices, SIP is probably turned off as it breaks
many features people want like BLF. This does not hold true for premise
based systems.

On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 10:04 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> A little bit of discussion going on Mikrotik forum.  One guy says exploit
> didn't work with Mikrotik SIP ALG enabled, but I wouldn't take that to the
> bank, he doesn't give any details of what he tried.
> https://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?f=2=168372
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
> Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 9:15 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] NAT Slipstreaming - or how to attack any internal
> host behind NAT
>
> I read a little deeper just now.  I was wondering how he avoided having
> the browser toss errors or ask permission to run the javascript, or what
> not.  Apparently the javascript figures out the MTU and maximum segment
> size, then sends an HTTP post with data large enough to be fragmented. The
> data portion is crafted so that the second fragment starts with something
> that looks like a SIP REGISTER.  The Netgear is parsing the beginnings of
> packets and watching for things that look like SIP messages, and apparently
> this process is simple enough to mistake this artificial SIP REGISTER in
> the beginning of a packet fragment for the real thing.
>
> Since the attacker controls the web server, he can respond back from port
> 5060 as if he really received a SIP REGISTER.  In the SIP REGISTER if he
> has "Contact: " then he
> responds back using dst port 1234 and now that port is open to the victim.
>
> The Javascript never doesn't open a real connection, it does an HTTP POST
> which it's normally allowed to do.  The ALG is tricked by an imaginary
> connection attempt in the second packet fragment. It's not explicitly
> stated to be a Linux vulnerability, but he informed his attack strategy
> with knowledge of how Linux Netfilter behaves.which implies other
> devices with Linux OS's could exhibit the same issue as the Netgear R7000.
>
> It's slicker than greased owl shit.but it's worth reiterating that you
> also need something to exploit on the target device.
>
>
> On 11/2/2020 9:36 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> > I believe in the SIP world the advice is always turn off the SIP ALG.
> But on customer managed routers, the customer is never going to change it
> from the default, they don't even update the firmware.
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
> > Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 8:22 AM
> > To: af@af.afmug.com
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] NAT Slipstreaming - or how to attack any internal
> host behind NAT
> >
> > It seems to exploit behavior of the application layer gateway. That
> allows stuff like RTP and FTP which use dynamic ports to operate through
> NAT.  The script tricks the gateway into forwarding an arbitrary port
> number to the target device. Presumably you then attack a vulnerable
> service on the target device, or DOS him, or what have you.
> >
> > He's specifically doing this with a Netgear R7000.  It's not clear to me
> whether it was a Netgear bug, or a bug in the kernel, or with ALG's in
> general.
> >
> >
> > On 11/1/2020 10:47 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> >> I didn't have time to read all the comments (or the brain cells to
> >> digest them), but there's a discussion here:
> >> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24955891
> >>
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: AF  On Behalf Of fiber...@mail.com
> >> Sent: Sunday, November 1, 2020 9:23 AM
> >> To: af@af.afmug.com
> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] NAT Slipstreaming - or how to attack any internal
> >> host behind NAT
> >>
> >> The URL points to the security researcher's writeup on the attack and
> >> the page contains a link to proof of concept source code on github.
> >>
> >>> Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2020
> >>> From: "Robert" 
> >>> To: af@af.afmug.com
> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] NAT Slipstreaming - or how to attack any
> >>> internal
> >> host behind NAT
> >>> Was that site a source of the "evil javascript"?
> >>>
> >>> On 11/1/20 5:39 AM, fiber...@mail.com wrote:
> >>>> Synopsis: NAT Slipstreaming allows an attacker to remotely access
> >>>> any
> >> TCP/UDP service bound to a victim machine, bypassing the victim's
> >> NAT/firewall (arbitrary firewall pinhole control), just by the victim
> >> visiting a website.
> >>>> 

Re: [AFMUG] Used PacketFlux SyncBox 12

[Lewis Bergman]

Email me a USPS flat rate small box label and I'll throw in the mail. I
think they are $7.53 or something.

On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 11:36 AM TJ Trout  wrote:

> I'll take the base, paul I have a lmg unit with about 12 external sync
> ports.
>
> On Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 8:28 AM Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:
>
>> I was looking at a SitemonitorBaseII the other day thinking I should
>> throw it away. I know nothing about it. Might be good, might be broken,
>> might be passworded. No idea. Want it?
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 9:37 AM Paul McCall via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Anybody have a couple of these they are not using that they want to part
>>> with?  (will pay)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We have one in service in our network and need a couple spares.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Paul McCall, President *
>>>
>>> *Florida Broadband / PDMNet*
>>>
>>> *658 Old Dixie Highway*
>>>
>>> *Vero Beach, FL 32962*
>>>
>>> *772-564-6800*
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Lewis Bergman
>> 325-439-0533 Cell
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] Used PacketFlux SyncBox 12

[Lewis Bergman]

I was looking at a SitemonitorBaseII the other day thinking I should throw
it away. I know nothing about it. Might be good, might be broken, might be
passworded. No idea. Want it?

On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 9:37 AM Paul McCall via AF  wrote:

> Anybody have a couple of these they are not using that they want to part
> with?  (will pay)
>
>
>
> We have one in service in our network and need a couple spares.
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> *Paul McCall, President *
>
> *Florida Broadband / PDMNet*
>
> *658 Old Dixie Highway*
>
> *Vero Beach, FL 32962*
>
> *772-564-6800*
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] POTS for "life safety" - MFVN

[Lewis Bergman]

Yeah, Cellular is the most widely accepted solution. NYC allows it and
there aren't any I know of that are more strict than they are. In addition,
It can be a lot easier.

On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 9:47 AM  wrote:

> There is no money in the one off elevator or fire alarm circuit to even
> touch the perceived liability.  Let them use cellular if they cannot get
> POTS from the ILEC.  I know of a “very large – very very large” data center
> that is located in a city that is 100% FTTH.  The local ILEC had to go dig
> some old DLC out of the trash because they absolutely had to have 16 POTS
> lines.  and could not have the POTS that came out of an ONT.
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 27, 2020 8:11 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] POTS for "life safety" - MFVN
>
> Many VoIP providers won't touch elevators or fire alarm circuits. We don't
> mind but many municipalities require permitting, acceptance, etc. It
> wouldn't be difficult if you are willing to work with us and if the
> opportunity is worth the trouble. We (or someone else) would need to
> install at least 2 machines in your NOC or data center. That would be used
> as the primary softswitch within your network with our other clusters as
> backups.
>
> You should contact your municipalities and state to see what exactly would
> have to be done for your areas. Most I have seen don't have specific state
> regs, they leave it up to the cities but every place is different.
>
> On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 7:58 AM Brough Turner  wrote:
>
>> Is there a way to "white label" Managed Facilites-based Voice Network
>> (MFVN) services?  I recognize MFVN service requires the softswitch and
>> gateway be in the network (our network), but that would be ok if we could
>> out-source configuration and operation to someone else and, for this
>> service, be a subcontractor to that service provider.
>> We provide high speed Internet connections, nothing else.  Customers who
>> want other services like VoIP, are referred to 3rd parties.  But we have a
>> few prospective customers whose fire alarm / security systems require a
>> POTS analog telephone line or an MFVN equivalent, as the NFPA accepts MFVN
>> services as adequate "for fire and life safety signaling between a
>> protected premises and a central monitoring station."  The phone service
>> provided by the major cable companies qualifies as an MFVN service and we
>> compete against Comcast for business customers in the greater Boston area.
>>
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Managed_facilities-based_voice_network#/media/File:MFVN_Diagram.PNG
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Brough
>>
>> Brough Turner
>> netBlazr Inc. – Free your Broadband!
>> Mobile:  617-285-0433   Skype:  brough
>> netBlazr Inc. <http://www.netblazr.com/> | Twitter
>> <https://twitter.com/#%21/brough> | LinkedIn
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/broughturner> | Facebook
>> <http://www.facebook.com/brough.turner>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Lewis Bergman
> 325-439-0533 Cell
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


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Re: [AFMUG] POTS for "life safety" - MFVN

[Lewis Bergman]

Many VoIP providers won't touch elevators or fire alarm circuits. We don't
mind but many municipalities require permitting, acceptance, etc. It
wouldn't be difficult if you are willing to work with us and if the
opportunity is worth the trouble. We (or someone else) would need to
install at least 2 machines in your NOC or data center. That would be used
as the primary softswitch within your network with our other clusters as
backups.

You should contact your municipalities and state to see what exactly would
have to be done for your areas. Most I have seen don't have specific state
regs, they leave it up to the cities but every place is different.

On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 7:58 AM Brough Turner  wrote:

> Is there a way to "white label" Managed Facilites-based Voice Network
> (MFVN) services?  I recognize MFVN service requires the softswitch and
> gateway be in the network (our network), but that would be ok if we could
> out-source configuration and operation to someone else and, for this
> service, be a subcontractor to that service provider.
> We provide high speed Internet connections, nothing else.  Customers who
> want other services like VoIP, are referred to 3rd parties.  But we have a
> few prospective customers whose fire alarm / security systems require a
> POTS analog telephone line or an MFVN equivalent, as the NFPA accepts MFVN
> services as adequate "for fire and life safety signaling between a
> protected premises and a central monitoring station."  The phone service
> provided by the major cable companies qualifies as an MFVN service and we
> compete against Comcast for business customers in the greater Boston area.
>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Managed_facilities-based_voice_network#/media/File:MFVN_Diagram.PNG
>
> Thanks,
> Brough
>
> Brough Turner
> netBlazr Inc. – Free your Broadband!
> Mobile:  617-285-0433   Skype:  brough
> netBlazr Inc. <http://www.netblazr.com/> | Twitter
> <https://twitter.com/#%21/brough> | LinkedIn
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/broughturner> | Facebook
> <http://www.facebook.com/brough.turner>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
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325-439-0533 Cell
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting

[Lewis Bergman]

  But
> take the extreme case of a customer who recently tested positive or the
> tech gets there and strongly suspects someone in the house is contagious,
> is this really happening, and what is your response?  At the beginning I
> would ask when setting up every appointment, has anyone in the house tested
> positive, but I’ve come to believe that’s pointless.
>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] SIP trunk providers at IXes?

[Lewis Bergman]

We don't peer specifically. We choose data centers like INAP and Equinix
that have lots of customers located in their centers and large peering
fabrics built.
I think of peering as more of a BGP thing, which I am more concerned about
consistent low latency between my switch platform and my customers. I
wouldn't be against peering, I just don't know that it would be a huge
benefit.

SIP trunks are a pretty simple deal. Maybe they aren't set up to deal with
any more complexity. We use Fusion right now at the Dallas Equinix. So we
get their BGP routes and blended DIA. In that case, you would peer with
them. We have a similar arrangement in Seattle.

On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 12:55 PM Seth Mattinen  wrote:

> On 10/22/20 10:45 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> > Well yes, mine, but also any that my customers may use independently of
> me.
> >
> > Also, like me, Seth runs an IX. We're always trying to find networks
> > that would benefit from IXes. VoIP providers would be an obvious one,
> > but many of them don't seem to know how to run networks.
>
>
>
> I'm also looking at options for SIP trunks for my office, and I would
> really prefer to buy with someone who participates in peering, not just
> says how great their network is then when I try to find out details on
> what exactly that means come up with little to nothing.
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT new hires

[Lewis Bergman]

Requalified...might be part of the issue. But getting hired and no show no
call in Texas is a reason to deny benefits. Maybe apart of the reason is
they can't do basic math skills. I have a very few low end positions. I get
some that say they can make more doing gig work. I tell them "You mean you
can gross more. I think you are confused about what you can keep from that
paycheck and the total amount".

I have yet to have one understand the statement.

On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 7:25 PM Robert  wrote:

> Or go back on unemployment because you requalified?
>
> On 10/21/20 4:24 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>
> It’s the ghosting era. Show up. Get hired. Find better gig. Don’t talk.
> Just don’t show.
>
> On Oct 21, 2020, at 6:50 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account)
>   wrote:
>
> 
> I've had a position open here for quite some time.   Two interviews set
> up, no shows.
>
> I don't doubt the unemployment statistics are correct, (i.e. that's the
> percentage collecting unemployment), but a more useful statistic would be
> the number of people actually interested in getting and holding an actual
> job.  I have to assume that number is very close to zero right now, at
> least in the local area.
>
> I've had occasion to use several contractors recently related to
> insulating the remaining unheated space in our manufacturing facility and
> it's amazing how many of them qualify their quotes/info with some "I can't
> find good employees and I'm doing the best we can" hedge.
>
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 1:49 PM  wrote:
>
>> Is this a generational thing:  New hire, worked 2 days then no show?
>> Will not return calls, texts or emails.  Has happened repeatedly to us.  We
>> also have guys go through the whole process of getting hired then not ever
>> showing up.
>>
>> No shows to scheduled interviews is very common.
>>
>> On a positive note, I am wiring up my new (to me) water jet cutter...  Be
>> making my own HDD drill bits and micro trenching blades soon!
>> --
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>>
>
>
> --
> - Forrest
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>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Dedicated server

[Lewis Bergman]

Billing overhead if there is any. We made money on the hot hands part of
that but it seemed like we spent half of it inputting and collecting it.

On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 10:25 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> It seems like a hundred years since anyone wanted a dedicated server (I
> thought AWS crushed that market?), but I got that request today.
>
> My assumptions on my costs are:
>
>- amortized cost of the server
>- amortized cost of the physical space
>- electric
>- A/C
>
> Any costs am I forgetting?  Asking the group because that part of the
> brain has gotten dusty.
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Wimberley Texas tower gig

[Lewis Bergman]

I am not, but the guy I usually use for towers might be. If he is not, my
shop in Bryan is closer and their tower contractor might.
Butch Strickland
325-338-5082
hkstrick2...@sbcglobal.net

On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 10:46 AM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Hola ..any one interested in a 110 ft tower erection job. Trylon self
> supported.  They have crane.
> Two antennas and alignment.
> Let me know
> Thanks
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Re: [AFMUG] Backup Solutions

[Lewis Bergman]

I have to methods.
For the office my secretary carries a MTWTF usb disk with her in her purse.
Every day she takes yesterday's and plugs in today.

For the servers we use GCP. AWS probably has something similar the server
access user only has permissions to write. You have to log in Manila via
the gcp console to delete with different user permissions. It is so cheap
we just let them Auto delete after 60 days. No idea if that is best
practice or not. I like what others have said as well.

On Fri, Oct 9, 2020, 3:46 PM  wrote:

> Air gapped remote.  I know one company that physically unplugs a drive and
> sets it on the shelf every day rotating them with 6 others.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Nate Burke
> Sent: Friday, October 9, 2020 2:04 PM
> To: Animal Farm
> Subject: [AFMUG] Backup Solutions
>
> Hearing more and more about all the ransom-ware attacks, what is the
> best method these days to do pc/server backups.  Just backing up to a
> remote storage disk isn't enough anymore, since as long as it's
> connectable from the machine, it can get locked too.  I only have a
> couple Standalone ESXi servers, and a handful of physical machines.
> Probably <10tb max across everything.  One of the cloud providers like
> Backblaze would be the simplest, start the software and just let it
> run.  Is there a local NAS that would do something similar without
> breaking the bank, or taking hours to configure?  Just curios what the
> new 'best practice' backup policy is.
>
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Re: [AFMUG] GNB Absolyte GX telecom batteries

[Lewis Bergman]

Dismantled an old MCI site with batts like those. Very good. We used them
for maybe 8 years after that and they always tested good.

On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 10:16 AM  wrote:

> I have use lots of them over the years.  They are good for 20 years in an
> environmentally controlled shelter.
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Friday, October 9, 2020 9:13 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] GNB Absolyte GX telecom batteries
>
>
> Some website showed me an ad for these, I had never heard of them before.
> Wow, those are some big ass batteries.  But 600 to 2000 lbs per 4V battery,
> I think they’re a little more than we could handle.
>
>
>
> Has anybody used these or even looked into them further?  The specs look
> good.
>
>
>
>
> https://alpinepowersystems.com/telecom-products/telecom-batteries/gnb-absolyte-gx/
>
>
>
> --
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Air Conditioned Cabinets

[Lewis Bergman]

I have one on the third pallet rack up in my warehouse. It is stainless
steel unpainted and only about 40U. The single phase may be an issue. Last
time I bought a cab with single phase HVAC it was a bit pricey. Have you
tried DB?

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 3:12 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> Looking for leads on an Outdoor Cabinet with AC.  I was working with TSR
> Comsupply, but they've gone radio silent on me this week. Doesn't have
> to be new.  My problem is I only have a single 20A/120vac circuit for
> the cabinet, so the AC size really matters. Doesn't have to keep it
> chilled, just below 100 degrees.
>
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>


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Re: [AFMUG] Charging for Training

[Lewis Bergman]

I have found that most companies that require this, also are accustomed to
paying you to do it. All of my large customers with safety programs
requirements pay for our labor and direct costs to meet their needs.

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 3:27 PM Mark Radabaugh  wrote:

> Up to you.   If it’s insanely long we might charge them.   Hour or less I
> don’t care.   We do try to keep track of who the installer / service person
> who went through the training was so that we send the same person back to
> avoid the training issue.
>
> Mark
>
> > On Sep 29, 2020, at 4:14 PM, Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
> >
> > What's standard procedure when a large facility requires you to take
> training while on site before you can perform the install so that you know
> how to do it the way they want (for safety?).
> >
> > Is it normal to charge them for the time your tech is there for that
> training?
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

[Lewis Bergman]

I would assume CEPH takes the physical disks from each host and combines
them into one logical storage for use by the entire cluster?

On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 7:39 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> CEPH kind of fills the void where you don't need a dedicated, shared
> storage box.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Adam Moffett" 
> *To: *af@af.afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, September 28, 2020 7:34:14 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines
>
> If you're going to have multiple physical VM hosts then fast shared
> storage is very helpful.  When you want to reboot a physical machine for OS
> upgrade and the VM's are on shared storage then you can migrate them off
> that box in a few seconds.   Do your maintenance, reboot, migrate VM's
> back.  No downtime.
> On 9/27/2020 11:43 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>
> Thanks guys. Proxmox didn't even come up in my searches. I'll look into
> it. If anyone really knows the space and wouldn't mind spending 15 minutes
> discussing what we need I would appreciate it.
>
> On Sun, Sep 27, 2020, 10:21 AM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> VMs are a great way to go depending on the job(s) you need to do. As it
>> happens a lot of jobs (e.g. DNS) are not particularly compute intensive, so
>> it's a great way to stretch resources. We find we can run 3 or 4 virtual
>> machines on each physical machine.
>>
>> We used VMware from the get-go, but did not get many of the paid-for
>> bells and whistles. VMware can become pretty expensive, where other
>> solutions (e.g. Proxmox) has an advantage because of open source.
>>
>> The other consideration is containers, which can be thought of as
>> VM-lite. Containers provide almost all of the advantages of VMs with a
>> significantly lighter load on the hardware. As a result, you can load up
>> more applications on less hardware. The leading contender in the container
>> space is Kubernetes and it's also open source.
>>
>> Pick your poison with someone you know who can go over your requirements.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 9/27/2020 7:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>>
>> I have decided I needed to get on the VM train. I know, I am only 15
>> years behind. Honestly, till now I haven't had a compelling reason.
>>
>> I want something that will at least do some monitoring of VM's, backups,
>> snapshots, etc. Managed upgrading would be great but not as big a priority
>> for me (at least I don't think so).
>>
>> Since I don't know what I don't know, I am asking the experienced crowd.
>>
>> It seems the two real choices are VMWare and Zen. Are there others?
>> Commercial support seems nice, is it worth paying for? What I will run is
>> important for sure.
>>
>> I spent a few hours last night and I more confused now than when I
>> started.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
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>>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Virtual machines

[Lewis Bergman]

Thanks guys. Proxmox didn't even come up in my searches. I'll look into it.
If anyone really knows the space and wouldn't mind spending 15 minutes
discussing what we need I would appreciate it.

On Sun, Sep 27, 2020, 10:21 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

> VMs are a great way to go depending on the job(s) you need to do. As it
> happens a lot of jobs (e.g. DNS) are not particularly compute intensive, so
> it's a great way to stretch resources. We find we can run 3 or 4 virtual
> machines on each physical machine.
>
> We used VMware from the get-go, but did not get many of the paid-for bells
> and whistles. VMware can become pretty expensive, where other solutions
> (e.g. Proxmox) has an advantage because of open source.
>
> The other consideration is containers, which can be thought of as VM-lite.
> Containers provide almost all of the advantages of VMs with a significantly
> lighter load on the hardware. As a result, you can load up more
> applications on less hardware. The leading contender in the container space
> is Kubernetes and it's also open source.
>
> Pick your poison with someone you know who can go over your requirements.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 9/27/2020 7:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>
> I have decided I needed to get on the VM train. I know, I am only 15 years
> behind. Honestly, till now I haven't had a compelling reason.
>
> I want something that will at least do some monitoring of VM's, backups,
> snapshots, etc. Managed upgrading would be great but not as big a priority
> for me (at least I don't think so).
>
> Since I don't know what I don't know, I am asking the experienced crowd.
>
> It seems the two real choices are VMWare and Zen. Are there others?
> Commercial support seems nice, is it worth paying for? What I will run is
> important for sure.
>
> I spent a few hours last night and I more confused now than when I started.
>
>
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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[AFMUG] Virtual machines

[Lewis Bergman]

I have decided I needed to get on the VM train. I know, I am only 15 years
behind. Honestly, till now I haven't had a compelling reason.

I want something that will at least do some monitoring of VM's, backups,
snapshots, etc. Managed upgrading would be great but not as big a priority
for me (at least I don't think so).

Since I don't know what I don't know, I am asking the experienced crowd.

It seems the two real choices are VMWare and Zen. Are there others?
Commercial support seems nice, is it worth paying for? What I will run is
important for sure.

I spent a few hours last night and I more confused now than when I started.
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Re: [AFMUG] servers

[Lewis Bergman]

Thanks for all that info. Can you give me insight into virtualization? What
do you use for tha? I know I probably should use it but I haven't. The
licensing seems really confusing for VM and not sure there are any good
alternatives.

On Sat, Sep 26, 2020, 10:30 AM Ryan McAfee  wrote:

> That's the kind of situation where blades can make sense.
> For general use, unless you have crazy space requirements, up until about
> 8-12 servers, at least, I wouldn't consider them. At a pay-per-U
> datacenter, that could make sense.
>
> Yes, we've used NetApp SANs for NFS/iSCSI. I've also seen good results
> with many other brands of storage enclosure. Even QNAP has a decent storage
> system at reasonable prices.
>
> Blade systems CAN simplify cabling (unless you still need a ton of
> uplinks).
> The HP c7000 system was pretty easy to manage, but we had issues with the
> management cards in both chassis. Over time ping to the OAs would get
> longer and longer until they quit responding and the onboard administrators
> had to be reset. We had the issue with C7000 acquired in 2008 and another
> in 2010. HP, of course, said "We've never seen this before". We just
> accepted it as normal, eventually, and did a failover of the OAs, primary
> to secondary, and rebooted them about once a month. That was non-disruptive
> to the workload.
> HP's converged networking makes a lot more sense to me than Cisco
> UCS's (acquired 2013).
>
> Overall, the blade system increased the price, left us constrained on
> things like memory slots and ability to put in PCI cards and local disks.
>
> Ryan
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 26, 2020 at 8:44 AM  wrote:
>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>1. Re: servers (Lewis Bergman)
>>2. Re: servers (Erich Kaiser)
>>3. Re: servers (Chuck McCown)
>>
>>
>> ------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2020 08:05:00 -0500
>> From: Lewis Bergman 
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] servers
>> Message-ID:
>> <
>> cad2cnaquan98ny_8dkh2yfzxezmv_agdwxdphlwqurcby1l...@mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> I am really glad I read your post. I have always done it the way you
>> describe but thought I would try blades this time. We do have to put this
>> project in Equinix which means power requirements really matter a lot and
>> it costs a decent amount to add more. Do you just have a big iSCSI for
>> storage?
>>
>> By the way Chuck, I did not mention the HP DL20. It is a shallow 1U that
>> could be mounted on a single post rack. Like any single post 1U, it could
>> really use a shelf to add support to the back. They do fit anywhere. Not
>> the fastest machines ever but more than enough to do what you want. But so
>> are Atoms, Pi's and a tone of other tiny form factors. Even the NUC would
>> bang out what you have for requirements.
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 8:59 PM Ryan McAfee  wrote:
>>
>> > Blade systems can be awesome, but they add a TON of complexity over
>> > regular pizza-box servers.
>> > Unless you need the hardware density of blades, I'd much rather have a
>> > stack of HP DL360/DL380 or the Dell R740xd type servers (can't remember
>> the
>> > 1U equivalent on the Dell side).
>> >
>> > I've managed HP blade chassis (2 different generations) and Cisco UCS
>> > blades in a VMWare environment. I've really not cared for either types.
>> >
>> > The 1U/2U servers are much easier to work on, have easy expansion slots,
>> > places to mount disk bays, etc...
>> > Plus you can get a 2-generation old server for a couple hundred dollars
>> on
>> > ebay and other vendors.
>> >
>> > At my $dayjob, we just put in a Dell R740xd2 stack of Hyper-V servers.
>> The
>> > hardware is pretty awesome.
>> > We didn't even consider blades this time.
>> >
>> > Ryan
>> >
>> > On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 8:48 PM  wrote:
>> >
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >> Message: 1
>> >> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2020 19:08:50 -0600
>> >> From: 
>> >> To: 
>> >> Subject: [AFMUG] servers
>> >> Message-ID: <760C91BEE8344A249EB9F7291415D03B@MCCOWNTECH.local>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>> >>
>> >> I need to put in some servers.  I want to go durable.  Last a long
>> t

Re: [AFMUG] servers

[Lewis Bergman]

Erich,
What model of chassis and blades do you use?

On Sat, Sep 26, 2020, 8:20 AM Erich Kaiser 
wrote:

> Go with a blade server with support.  We have a Dell blade server and it
> has been rock solid, we had an issue with one of the management cards (Has
> 2 for redundancy) but Dell sent us a new one overnight (They would
> have even sent a tech out to replace it, but we just used our own) if your
> business depends on it spend the money and get the support.We also have
> stand alone servers that do other things as well (Other POP sites), but our
> primary stuff resides on the blade server.  The server was purchased
> through an acquisition we did and it came with Windows Datacenter on it
> already, I would probably not use it if we were rebuilding the system from
> scratch, would probably use VMWare but it has been rock solid.
>
>
> Erich Kaiser
> North Central Tower
> er...@northcentraltower.com
> Office: 815-570-3101
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 8:09 PM  wrote:
>
>> I need to put in some servers.  I want to go durable.  Last a long time.
>> Thinking blade servers.
>> Email, DNS etc,  Perhaps in the future DHCP.  Other things an ISP uses.
>>
>> Suggestions?  I like the idea of hot swap etc.  I realize VM and Hyper V,
>> all kinds of virtualization makes life easy.
>> But irrespective, I want bare metal reliability.
>>
>> Then perhaps NAS/SAN on top of it.
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] servers

[Lewis Bergman]

I am really glad I read your post. I have always done it the way you
describe but thought I would try blades this time. We do have to put this
project in Equinix which means power requirements really matter a lot and
it costs a decent amount to add more. Do you just have a big iSCSI for
storage?

By the way Chuck, I did not mention the HP DL20. It is a shallow 1U that
could be mounted on a single post rack. Like any single post 1U, it could
really use a shelf to add support to the back. They do fit anywhere. Not
the fastest machines ever but more than enough to do what you want. But so
are Atoms, Pi's and a tone of other tiny form factors. Even the NUC would
bang out what you have for requirements.

On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 8:59 PM Ryan McAfee  wrote:

> Blade systems can be awesome, but they add a TON of complexity over
> regular pizza-box servers.
> Unless you need the hardware density of blades, I'd much rather have a
> stack of HP DL360/DL380 or the Dell R740xd type servers (can't remember the
> 1U equivalent on the Dell side).
>
> I've managed HP blade chassis (2 different generations) and Cisco UCS
> blades in a VMWare environment. I've really not cared for either types.
>
> The 1U/2U servers are much easier to work on, have easy expansion slots,
> places to mount disk bays, etc...
> Plus you can get a 2-generation old server for a couple hundred dollars on
> ebay and other vendors.
>
> At my $dayjob, we just put in a Dell R740xd2 stack of Hyper-V servers. The
> hardware is pretty awesome.
> We didn't even consider blades this time.
>
> Ryan
>
> On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 8:48 PM  wrote:
>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2020 19:08:50 -0600
>> From: 
>> To: 
>> Subject: [AFMUG] servers
>> Message-ID: <760C91BEE8344A249EB9F7291415D03B@MCCOWNTECH.local>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> I need to put in some servers.  I want to go durable.  Last a long time.
>> Thinking blade servers.
>> Email, DNS etc,  Perhaps in the future DHCP.  Other things an ISP uses.
>>
>> Suggestions?  I like the idea of hot swap etc.  I realize VM and Hyper V,
>> all kinds of virtualization makes life easy.
>> But irrespective, I want bare metal reliability.
>>
>> Then perhaps NAS/SAN on top of it.
>> -- next part --
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/private/af_af.afmug.com/attachments/20200925/4beed145/attachment-0001.html
>> >
>>
>> --
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> AF mailing list
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>>
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>>
>> End of AF Digest, Vol 28, Issue 447
>> ***
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] servers

[Lewis Bergman]

Anything DC is going to severely limit your choices. You need almost
nothing for DNS and DHCP but email...useful email takes a decent machine
nowadays for all the spam checking and header checks. I gave up doing email
ages ago and went to gmail. Best decision I ever made. No need to spark a
war, just a sideline comment.

As for reliability, Either Dell or HP I think are the best. Haven't done
Dell in a while but when I did I was happy with them.  They both make blade
servers. I have been researching blade servers recently for a new project.
HP has an 8 slot C3000 and a 16 slot C7000. Dell has the M1000e. The HP has
a storage blade that holds 16 drives and can serve as DAS, ISCSI, fiber
channel and about any other disk access you like. I think you can put 8 of
those in. They both have chassis management so you can manage the blades
from a central admin console on a hardware level. Dell is more tightly
integrated with VMWare than HP from what I could tell but I don't know what
that integration buys you.

Both are available on the refurb market.
This next bit may be incorrect but I don't think so from what I could
tell:
No matter if you buy refurb or brand new blades appear to come out a
generation behind their rack mounted brothers. For instance in HP I think
the latest you can get in a blade is a Gen9 server while current rack units
and desktop servers are at Gen 10. Gen 10 has a better iLO5 (Integrated
Lights Out) than Gen 8 and 9 iLO4. I don't believe you can upgrade that iLO
separately as it is built into the MB. Dell used to have their DRAC which
does the same thing and it plugged into a special slot so was
independant of the MB and could be upgraded but I don't know what they have
now. I assume HP moved to the on MB way to save money so I am assuming they
have both moved that way.

On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 8:09 PM  wrote:

> I need to put in some servers.  I want to go durable.  Last a long time.
> Thinking blade servers.
> Email, DNS etc,  Perhaps in the future DHCP.  Other things an ISP uses.
>
> Suggestions?  I like the idea of hot swap etc.  I realize VM and Hyper V,
> all kinds of virtualization makes life easy.
> But irrespective, I want bare metal reliability.
>
> Then perhaps NAS/SAN on top of it.
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>


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Re: [AFMUG] OT sip question

[Lewis Bergman]

* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT sip question
>
> Not necessarily, especially if you consider what a hosting provider is
> doing on top of just the pure minutes.  Also, any free PBX solution is not
> anywhere close to the capabilities and resiliency of a real switch.
>
> Fixed cost also means you know your margins and makes things far more
> predictable.  And if you have a user that uses more than the average...
> they lose not you.
>
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> Daniel White 
> September 23, 2020 at 15:30
> Not necessarily, especially if you consider what a hosting provider is
> doing on top of just the pure minutes.  Also, any free PBX solution is not
> anywhere close to the capabilities and resiliency of a real switch.
>
> Fixed cost also means you know your margins and makes things far more
> predictable.  And if you have a user that uses more than the average...
> they lose not you.
>
> TJ Trout 
> September 23, 2020 at 14:35
> with any volume you want to go to a per minute/per item rate, then you
> reap the profits instead of the guy offering you $8 flat rate...
>
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT sip question

[Lewis Bergman]

Just as a clarification, FusionPBX is freeswitch not asterisk.

On Wed, Sep 23, 2020 at 2:37 PM Daniel White  wrote:

> Having a direct connection for a SIP trunk is easy.  Just put an Adtran
> 904e or something else into the mix.  For LNP you don't need to have the
> switch on-net... just a device in the exchange for portability and a T-1 or
> something else.
>
> To answer your question... CallerID manipulation is easy right now.  In
> 9ish months once STIR/SHAKEN is a thing... you may run into issues getting
> calls signed with a TN for CallerID that isn't on that providers service.
>
> So yes... to answer your question it is easy to do on an Asterisk based
> system (FreePBX or FusionPBX for instance) but someone like Lewis and I
> could save you a lot of trouble for certain.  That and it is easy today...
> but is going to be a lot more complicated next year.
>
> [image: photograph]
> Daniel White
> Co-Founder
> phone: +1 (702) 470-2770
> direct: +1 (702) 470-2766
>
> ch...@wbmfg.com
> September 23, 2020 at 12:52
> The provider charges more for a “trunk”.
> And Lewis, I already have this service set up through them for another
> system
> We have some unique LNP porting issues and really want the voip provider
> to have a direct connection to us.
>
> *From:* Brian Webster
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 23, 2020 12:35 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT sip question
>
>
> It’s been a while since I have done an asterisk config but you still
> configure a SIP account much the same as you would for the ATA and it
> becomes a trunk as I recall and then you do whatever you need to with it as
> a single line trunk. Way back when I was learning it and playing I had
> multiple providers for single lines and even an IAX line too. Then I could
> use them as part of the dial plan and other features as to where it would
> ring and dial out.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Brian Webster
>
> www.wirelessmapping.com
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 23, 2020 2:01 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT sip quiestion
>
>
>
> If I get a voip service from some random provider and I have a sip device
> on my end, I am golden.  Say an ATA connected to a pots phone.
>
> Now, if I want that number to appear inside an asterisk PBX but I don’t
> want to buy a trunk, is there an easy way to do that?
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> Brian Webster 
> September 23, 2020 at 12:35
>
> It’s been a while since I have done an asterisk config but you still
> configure a SIP account much the same as you would for the ATA and it
> becomes a trunk as I recall and then you do whatever you need to with it as
> a single line trunk. Way back when I was learning it and playing I had
> multiple providers for single lines and even an IAX line too. Then I could
> use them as part of the dial plan and other features as to where it would
> ring and dial out.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Brian Webster
>
> www.wirelessmapping.com
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 23, 2020 2:01 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT sip quiestion
>
>
>
> If I get a voip service from some random provider and I have a sip device
> on my end, I am golden.  Say an ATA connected to a pots phone.
>
> Now, if I want that number to appear inside an asterisk PBX but I don’t
> want to buy a trunk, is there an easy way to do that?
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT sip quiestion

[Lewis Bergman]

I don't know about easy since I haven't done Asterisk in more than a decade
but you should be able to load your credentials into the PBX and configure
Asterisk to act asa SIP endpoint. Then it is all dial translations for
inbound and outbound as far as how you want to use it. The better question
is, why not use a less random provider like Daniel or I?

On Wed, Sep 23, 2020 at 1:01 PM  wrote:

> If I get a voip service from some random provider and I have a sip device
> on my end, I am golden.  Say an ATA connected to a pots phone.
> Now, if I want that number to appear inside an asterisk PBX but I don’t
> want to buy a trunk, is there an easy way to do that?
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Commissioned Sales

[Lewis Bergman]

And again, the man or woman that has the personality to go get $2 mil worth
of sales is very often not going to be the person to give your customers
the service after the sale you would like them to or that which the
customer wants. But again, hope you're right. And again, to the original
question, all the good software I know about handles commission reports and
I have run it all with spreadsheets before and it is a royal PITA.

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 4:24 PM Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> Ding ding ding!!!  It’s not just the sale but the service after the sale
>
> On Sep 21, 2020, at 5:20 PM, Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:
>
> 
> Accidentally sent. At any rate Enterprise pays a good base plus commission
> to a salesperson dedicated to bringing in new business. After the contract
> signing they bring in your account manager for a soft handoff and that
> person takes it home from there. They do a great job of it. So much so I
> asked them how they were compensated. It breaks down like this:
>
> New customer sales person gets a good base and if I remember correctly,
> 15% commission. The account manager gets a 5% of that original.sale. Any
> new business into that account generates a recurring revenue of 3% for the
> new customer rep and 5% for the account manager. It created a real team
> approach I have always found their approach to be a great balance and an
> example of how to keep that person with what it takes to bring in new
> customers doing just that and make sure they are rewarded for the long term.
>
> The salesperson who can win new accounts is many times, not the best
> person to make sure a customer stays happy.
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 4:13 PM Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:
>
>> I don't think I mentioned anything about residential or business. I would
>> assume you would only want/need a sales person for business accounts. Mass
>> media can handle the residential subs. 10% of gross is a pretty huge
>> number, but hey, it's your call of course. The trouble comes when they do
>> everything you asked them to, and you can't afford them. Then what.
>>
>> I would just be really cautious about residuals and definitely have an
>> expiration less than that of the contract. But maybe you will have a better
>> experience than all the salespeople that have worked for me. You can get
>> someone to maintain $2M worth of accounts for a lot less than $200,000.In
>> fact, you can likely get 3 people. The issue is once they start making
>> $200k a year from residual, will they work just as hard to bring you
>> another $2M or just sit back and coast.
>>
>> Enterprise Fleet has an interesting approach where they pay the
>> salesperson
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:41 AM Matt Hoppes <
>> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>
>>> This is for business.   Not residential.
>>>
>>> On 9/21/20 12:21 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>>> > I wouldn't pay someone bot a month upfront and a residual, but maybe I
>>> > am greedy. The big thing I think you should watch out for that always
>>> > scuttles sales people I have apus that way is their residual gets so
>>> > high they no longer have to get new clients to earn a great living so
>>> > they eventually stop selling and just work part time maintaining their
>>> > base and lifestyle.
>>> >
>>> > At least that is what has happened every time I have tried it. So I
>>> > would either limit residual to some period of months and only extend
>>> it
>>> > if they both upped their monthly and renewed for a longer term.
>>> >
>>> > None of that was what you asked and the better softwares will
>>> > produce commission report for you.
>>> >
>>> > On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 9:38 AM Matt Hoppes
>>> > >> > <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I’m planning to do 100% of the monthly rate upfront and then 5%
>>> > ongoing.
>>> >
>>> > I figure the more they help the company grow they should be making
>>> > more too.
>>> >
>>> > A 350/month account - that’s only $18 to the sales person.
>>> > Insignificant to the company, but massive potential for them
>>> > considering what they are bringing in.
>>> >
>>> >> On Sep 20, 2020, at 10:32 AM, Jesse DuPont
>>> >> >> >> <mailto:jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>  We do it as one tim

Re: [AFMUG] Commissioned Sales

[Lewis Bergman]

Well, basically because they sold $2 million in business in no way means
you made $2 million. I have no idea what your expense structure looks like.
If you operate a great business you likely have a 25% margin. If that
is the case, you are paying that person 40% of your net profit. More than
that by the time you figure the taxes and so forth.

At any rate, not that it matters. I think I misread your original post and
you are thinking of 5%, which seems super fair for both of you. I am
absolutely not against paying people well to do good work. I am
merely pointing out what I have seen having done exactly what you are
talking about doing. Not that all people work the same way and would react
to the exact same compensation lan the same, but my bet is they will.

if you pay them enough to not be motivated, they will stop being motivated.
This is why I say your residual should expire at awesome point so that to
keep making great money, they have to keep doing great work. That is all I
am saying. But hey, maybe I am wrong.

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 4:17 PM Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> Why would I not be able to pay them if they are bringing in $2 million a
> year I should easily be able to pay them that amount of commission and why
> would I forget that they are the reason that we are where we are?
>
> I have always had the stance that if an employee works hard and is the
> reason that the company has succeeded and they should be rewarded.
>
> I don’t see any reason why I shouldn’t pay the person who is literally
> single-handedly responsible for bringing in that much business as well. And
> hopefully they will continue to bring in another 2 million and they can be
> making 400,000 a year.
>
> As someone else stated that type of person is very valuable and you don’t
> want them to leave to go somewhere else.
>
> Plus again why should I make $2 million while the person who is
> single-handedly responsible for that money coming in have to worry about
> where their next paycheck is coming from.
>
> We’ve done projects where we have brought in $200,000 in the project and
> every single person who is involved in the project got paid extremely well.
> Yes I own the business but if you’re there in the trenches with me working
> on a project that pays that much I’m going to give you some of the profits.
>
> On Sep 21, 2020, at 5:13 PM, Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:
>
> 
> I don't think I mentioned anything about residential or business. I would
> assume you would only want/need a sales person for business accounts. Mass
> media can handle the residential subs. 10% of gross is a pretty huge
> number, but hey, it's your call of course. The trouble comes when they do
> everything you asked them to, and you can't afford them. Then what.
>
> I would just be really cautious about residuals and definitely have an
> expiration less than that of the contract. But maybe you will have a better
> experience than all the salespeople that have worked for me. You can get
> someone to maintain $2M worth of accounts for a lot less than $200,000.In
> fact, you can likely get 3 people. The issue is once they start making
> $200k a year from residual, will they work just as hard to bring you
> another $2M or just sit back and coast.
>
> Enterprise Fleet has an interesting approach where they pay the
> salesperson
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:41 AM Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
>> This is for business.   Not residential.
>>
>> On 9/21/20 12:21 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>> > I wouldn't pay someone bot a month upfront and a residual, but maybe I
>> > am greedy. The big thing I think you should watch out for that always
>> > scuttles sales people I have apus that way is their residual gets so
>> > high they no longer have to get new clients to earn a great living so
>> > they eventually stop selling and just work part time maintaining their
>> > base and lifestyle.
>> >
>> > At least that is what has happened every time I have tried it. So I
>> > would either limit residual to some period of months and only extend it
>> > if they both upped their monthly and renewed for a longer term.
>> >
>> > None of that was what you asked and the better softwares will
>> > produce commission report for you.
>> >
>> > On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 9:38 AM Matt Hoppes
>> > > > <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:
>> >
>> > I’m planning to do 100% of the monthly rate upfront and then 5%
>> > ongoing.
>> >
>> > I figure the more they help the company grow they should be making
>> > more too.
>&g

Re: [AFMUG] Commissioned Sales

[Lewis Bergman]

Accidentally sent. At any rate Enterprise pays a good base plus commission
to a salesperson dedicated to bringing in new business. After the contract
signing they bring in your account manager for a soft handoff and that
person takes it home from there. They do a great job of it. So much so I
asked them how they were compensated. It breaks down like this:

New customer sales person gets a good base and if I remember correctly, 15%
commission. The account manager gets a 5% of that original.sale. Any new
business into that account generates a recurring revenue of 3% for the new
customer rep and 5% for the account manager. It created a real team
approach I have always found their approach to be a great balance and an
example of how to keep that person with what it takes to bring in new
customers doing just that and make sure they are rewarded for the long term.

The salesperson who can win new accounts is many times, not the best person
to make sure a customer stays happy.

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 4:13 PM Lewis Bergman 
wrote:

> I don't think I mentioned anything about residential or business. I would
> assume you would only want/need a sales person for business accounts. Mass
> media can handle the residential subs. 10% of gross is a pretty huge
> number, but hey, it's your call of course. The trouble comes when they do
> everything you asked them to, and you can't afford them. Then what.
>
> I would just be really cautious about residuals and definitely have an
> expiration less than that of the contract. But maybe you will have a better
> experience than all the salespeople that have worked for me. You can get
> someone to maintain $2M worth of accounts for a lot less than $200,000.In
> fact, you can likely get 3 people. The issue is once they start making
> $200k a year from residual, will they work just as hard to bring you
> another $2M or just sit back and coast.
>
> Enterprise Fleet has an interesting approach where they pay the
> salesperson
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:41 AM Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
>> This is for business.   Not residential.
>>
>> On 9/21/20 12:21 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>> > I wouldn't pay someone bot a month upfront and a residual, but maybe I
>> > am greedy. The big thing I think you should watch out for that always
>> > scuttles sales people I have apus that way is their residual gets so
>> > high they no longer have to get new clients to earn a great living so
>> > they eventually stop selling and just work part time maintaining their
>> > base and lifestyle.
>> >
>> > At least that is what has happened every time I have tried it. So I
>> > would either limit residual to some period of months and only extend it
>> > if they both upped their monthly and renewed for a longer term.
>> >
>> > None of that was what you asked and the better softwares will
>> > produce commission report for you.
>> >
>> > On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 9:38 AM Matt Hoppes
>> > > > <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:
>> >
>> > I’m planning to do 100% of the monthly rate upfront and then 5%
>> > ongoing.
>> >
>> > I figure the more they help the company grow they should be making
>> > more too.
>> >
>> > A 350/month account - that’s only $18 to the sales person.
>> > Insignificant to the company, but massive potential for them
>> > considering what they are bringing in.
>> >
>> >> On Sep 20, 2020, at 10:32 AM, Jesse DuPont
>> >> > >> <mailto:jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>  We do it as one time commission - usually 1x or sometimes 2x the
>> >> monthly for that sale. We give it to them again on a renewal. We
>> >> usually have term contracts so as to ensure the revenue stream
>> >> over time since we're paying the commission up front. We haven't
>> >> done a recurring commission yet.
>> >> 
>> >>
>> >> *Jesse DuPont*
>> >>
>> >> Owner / Network Architect
>> >> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
>> >> <mailto:jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net>
>> >> Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC
>> >> Like us! facebook.com/ <http://facebook.com/
>> >celeritynetworksllc
>> >>
>> >> Like us! facebook.com/ <http://facebook.com/>celeritybroadband
>> >>
>> >> 
>> >>
>> >> On 9/20/

Re: [AFMUG] Commissioned Sales

[Lewis Bergman]

I don't think I mentioned anything about residential or business. I would
assume you would only want/need a sales person for business accounts. Mass
media can handle the residential subs. 10% of gross is a pretty huge
number, but hey, it's your call of course. The trouble comes when they do
everything you asked them to, and you can't afford them. Then what.

I would just be really cautious about residuals and definitely have an
expiration less than that of the contract. But maybe you will have a better
experience than all the salespeople that have worked for me. You can get
someone to maintain $2M worth of accounts for a lot less than $200,000.In
fact, you can likely get 3 people. The issue is once they start making
$200k a year from residual, will they work just as hard to bring you
another $2M or just sit back and coast.

Enterprise Fleet has an interesting approach where they pay the salesperson

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:41 AM Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> This is for business.   Not residential.
>
> On 9/21/20 12:21 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
> > I wouldn't pay someone bot a month upfront and a residual, but maybe I
> > am greedy. The big thing I think you should watch out for that always
> > scuttles sales people I have apus that way is their residual gets so
> > high they no longer have to get new clients to earn a great living so
> > they eventually stop selling and just work part time maintaining their
> > base and lifestyle.
> >
> > At least that is what has happened every time I have tried it. So I
> > would either limit residual to some period of months and only extend it
> > if they both upped their monthly and renewed for a longer term.
> >
> > None of that was what you asked and the better softwares will
> > produce commission report for you.
> >
> > On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 9:38 AM Matt Hoppes
> >  > <mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:
> >
> > I’m planning to do 100% of the monthly rate upfront and then 5%
> > ongoing.
> >
> > I figure the more they help the company grow they should be making
> > more too.
> >
> > A 350/month account - that’s only $18 to the sales person.
> > Insignificant to the company, but massive potential for them
> > considering what they are bringing in.
> >
> >> On Sep 20, 2020, at 10:32 AM, Jesse DuPont
> >>  >> <mailto:jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net>> wrote:
> >>
> >>  We do it as one time commission - usually 1x or sometimes 2x the
> >> monthly for that sale. We give it to them again on a renewal. We
> >> usually have term contracts so as to ensure the revenue stream
> >> over time since we're paying the commission up front. We haven't
> >> done a recurring commission yet.
> >> 
> >>
> >> *Jesse DuPont*
> >>
> >> Owner / Network Architect
> >> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
> >> <mailto:jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net>
> >> Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC
> >> Like us! facebook.com/ <http://facebook.com/
> >celeritynetworksllc
> >>
> >> Like us! facebook.com/ <http://facebook.com/>celeritybroadband
> >>
> >> 
> >>
> >> On 9/20/20 8:19 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> >>> Does anyone have an excel sheet or other tracking method for a
> commissioned sales person they’d want to share, or share how you do it?
> >>>
> >>> We are hiring our first outside sales person. She has a base
> salary, but then gets bonuses based on closed sales, as well as recurring
> commission for accounts that stay.
> >>>
> >>> Trying to figure out the best way to track this.
> >>
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Lewis Bergman
> > 325-439-0533 Cell
> >
>


-- 
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber jumper

[Lewis Bergman]

It pushes on and twists. I didn't realize I would take such a lousy
picture. It's like Jaime's before he got his new phone.

On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:27 AM  wrote:

> I don’t recognize it.
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Monday, September 21, 2020 10:07 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Fiber jumper
>
> Oh. All knowledgeable Borg,
> I need a 100 jumper to extend 6 fibers. I am sure it is single mode as it
> comes from a CO about 2 miles away. If I remember right it might be an ST
> connector. Can you guys verify the connector and anything else I would need
> to know to order something like this?
> Everything will be indoors but I want it rugged. Do it needs to be female
> on one end and make on the other.
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Commissioned Sales

[Lewis Bergman]

I wouldn't pay someone bot a month upfront and a residual, but maybe I am
greedy. The big thing I think you should watch out for that always
scuttles sales people I have apus that way is their residual gets so high
they no longer have to get new clients to earn a great living so they
eventually stop selling and just work part time maintaining their base and
lifestyle.

At least that is what has happened every time I have tried it. So I would
either limit residual to some period of months and only extend it if they
both upped their monthly and renewed for a longer term.

None of that was what you asked and the better softwares will
produce commission report for you.

On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 9:38 AM Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> I’m planning to do 100% of the monthly rate upfront and then 5% ongoing.
>
> I figure the more they help the company grow they should be making more
> too.
>
> A 350/month account - that’s only $18 to the sales person. Insignificant
> to the company, but massive potential for them considering what they are
> bringing in.
>
> On Sep 20, 2020, at 10:32 AM, Jesse DuPont 
> wrote:
>
>  We do it as one time commission - usually 1x or sometimes 2x the monthly
> for that sale. We give it to them again on a renewal. We usually have term
> contracts so as to ensure the revenue stream over time since we're paying
> the commission up front. We haven't done a recurring commission yet.
> 
>
> *Jesse DuPont*
>
> Owner / Network Architect
> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
> Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
>
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
>
> 
>
>
> On 9/20/20 8:19 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>
> Does anyone have an excel sheet or other tracking method for a commissioned 
> sales person they’d want to share, or share how you do it?
>
> We are hiring our first outside sales person. She has a base salary, but then 
> gets bonuses based on closed sales, as well as recurring commission for 
> accounts that stay.
>
> Trying to figure out the best way to track this.
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Next project

[Lewis Bergman]

The jolly green giant needs his gastro probed and you are putting a full
sized lab analysis machine into a capsule he can swallow. You have not yet
attached the reinforced kevlar tether with fiber for backhaul to send the
gathered info back to the Hospital for Extra Large People (HELP).

On Sun, Sep 20, 2020 at 7:35 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> In the on deck circle.  You guess.  Will post progress photos.
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone--
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Tower Insurance (Workmans Comp, COI etc)

[Lewis Bergman]

Absolutely. I think we require either $2mil or 4. can't remember. Should
get a named insured just to resolve the most basic of issues. That will
make sure you are notified if the policy is cancelled.

On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 1:26 PM  wrote:

> I would.
>
> *From:* Sterling Jacobson
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 16, 2020 12:15 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Tower Insurance (Workmans Comp, COI etc)
>
>
> The Workers Comp thread got me thinking.
>
>
>
> I own a tower (40 percent ownership actually in the LLC).
>
>
>
> Should I have anyone climbing it give me their Workers Comp information
> and have them covered on COI from their company or personally?
>
>
>
> We don’t employ tower climbers ourselves, so everything “climb” related is
> outsourced.
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


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Lewis Bergman
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Re: [AFMUG] Workers Comp

[Lewis Bergman]

ADP uses hartford as the underwriter too if I remember right. I used to use
ADP but with all the other insurance stuff I have and large company work we
do it for to be a pita. I moved everything to one broker. I think the
workers comp is liberty mutual now.

If you have to provide coi to companies and you have vehicles, workers
comp, and liability and you have them with different companies you have to
get 3 coi for every customer.

On Wed, Sep 16, 2020, 7:14 AM Jesse Dupont 
wrote:

> The Hartford.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Sep 15, 2020, at 8:31 PM, Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
> >
> > Who do you all have your workers comp insurance with?  Unitel is not
> the insurance company, they are just a broker.
> >
> > Who is your underlying carrier?
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: yikes

[Lewis Bergman]

When I was a teenager I was walking through the woods talking to a friend.
I looked around just in time to walk face first into one of those. I
honestly don't remember what happened next. I just kind of came to about a
mile from where I was. I am sure I was screaming like a frightened toddler
the whole time I was running. I often wondered how fast I covered that mile.

On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 6:55 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Saw this one a few days ago.
>
> Might be harmless, but I would squeal like a little girl if it was on me.
> Judge me if you want. It is what it is.
>
>
> On 9/14/2020 5:54 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>
> Took this picture years ago on roof of WWTP in Tornillo...it was
> huge...what do you think it is?
>
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-- 
Lewis Bergman
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AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
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