Re: [AFMUG] Problems with Packetflux Powerinjector

[Bill Prince]

I had a portable 12V battery that I would use for site surveys with the 
old PMP100. I'm pretty sure they would function in the 8-10V region.


I know nothing about the ePMP radios. Trust George.


bp


On 5/6/2018 2:33 PM, George Skorup wrote:

Original 5GHz integrated and connectorized are 14-30VDC, -4/5 +7/8 only.

Re: [AFMUG] Problems with Packetflux Powerinjector

[Mathew Howard]

The GPS synced radios won't boot at 20v, but the subscriber modules should
be able to run at a bit lower voltage (unless the 2.4ghz radios are
different, which is possible). With a standard 29v ePMP power supply, there
certainly shouldn't be anywhere near that much voltage drop on 100' of
cable anyway (unless that cable is complete junk).

The thing that seems really odd to me about that, is that an ePMP normally
should be drawing quite a bit less current than a PMP100 (which means less
voltage drop). I'm not sure what the minimum voltage is with a PMP100, but
I know they can have problems at 12v, so I can't see it being much lower
than an ePMP SM.

On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 9:01 AM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> They don't boot at 20v.  I don't think you'd lose 4v at 100' but I could
> be wrong.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> 
> Suite 1337
> 
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
>
> On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 4:30 PM, Philip Rankin 
> wrote:
>
>>  I am changing a PMP 100.  That is 2.4 GHz over to an EPM P1000
>> subscriber module and the PMP 100 works perfectly with the standard PMP 100
>> power supply or I can even switch it over  to the EPMP1000 standard supply
>> and it will work. But if I put the EPMP 1000 on it own supply that comes
>> with it or the standard PMP 100 supply the radio never shows power.  I have
>> tested the cable for continuity and is OK. I have to think  that the cable
>> is resistive and the Voltage is too low at the EPMP1000. I have not checked
>> that yet. The cable length is right at 100 feet. Strange!  The EPMP1000
>> works fine on a 6’ jumper to the PS.
>>
>> Phil Rankin
>> Wireless Telecommunications Corp.
>> Pittsburg, KS
>>
>> On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 1:56 PM Josh Luthman 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Right pretty sure Chuck removed the ethernet issues with the newer
>>> revision cards.  My issue, though, is the units will lose power for
>>> anywhere from a moment (so they simply power cycle) to 30 minutes.
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> 
>>> Suite 1337
>>> 
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>> 
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 12:38 PM, George Skorup >> > wrote:
>>>
 I'm running some 1k GPS radios from RSD-150C-24's which always put out
 24.0VDC. Injectors all at the bottom, 100-200 feet of cable and they work
 fine.

 The only real problem I've had is getting them to maintain gigabit
 links without errors. They'll either run fine with 50-100 CRC/FCS errors a
 day. Or I'll get lots more FCS errors and the links will drop a couple
 times a day. Some of them will eventually fall back to 100Mbps. Take the
 GigE-APCs out and they run gigabit with no errors.

 Chuck sent me some modified CAT6-APCs to try. I just haven't had time
 to dive into it yet. Hopefully next week when we replace a couple of those
 1k GPS radios with PTP550s.

 On 5/2/2018 11:22 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

 There is - here are the counters: https://imgur.com/a/FdVP9IF
 Note that bb5/6/7 have been losing power frequently too.

 If the voltage is too low, why would they randomly reboot maybe once or
 twice a week and then be fine for months at a time?

 The runs are well under 100m.  24vdc feeds the NEMA enclosure, then we
 have maybe 25 feet of cat5 to APs.

 I would think it's no more than 1 volt loss from my 24v source to the
 AP, but I have not verified this.  I know it's 24v at the green terminal
 block to the POE injector/Gigabit Sync injector.


 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 
 Suite 1337
 
 Troy, OH 45373
 

 On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 6:00 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
 li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> If you have a base unit attached to these, you should look at the
> event counters on the tripped line in the binary/boolean tab to determine
> if the device is detecting an overcurrent event.If it's seeing an
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Problems with Packetflux Powerinjector

[George Skorup]

We never deployed any 2.4GHz ePMP, but I believe all of the original 
2.4GHz ePMP 1k's (integrated, connectorized, connectorized GPS) and the 
5GHz connectorized GPS radio are 802.3af. The voltage regulator will 
only tolerate 20-60VDC. That's when the flash (or RAM?) heater issue 
came up in the winter for a lot of folks. Too much current (and 
compounding voltage drop) with the heater on down around 21-22 volts. 
The fix was to use a 29.5VDC supply.


Original 5GHz integrated and connectorized are 14-30VDC, -4/5 +7/8 only.

2.4 and 5GHz Force180/200 radios moved to the bridge rectifier polarity 
agnostic setup, however still only 14-30VDC. Same now with the 450b SMs.


I have some 5GHz 1k GPS radios powered from a RSD150C-24 and 100-150' 
cables for about a year and a half now and they've been working fine. 
We're getting ready to replace those with PTP550s. So now of course I 
have to re-wire a bunch of stuff for 48VDC.


Also have an AD-155B at a site. 27.6VDC float voltage to the gear. Got 
an old Rev E SyncPipe on top and it shows Vin: 26.1v. That's 200 feet of 
cable. 1.5v drop. Those ePMP GPs radios under load are probably still 
seeing 25+ volts. Off of an RSD, I'd guess 22 volts which would be 
cutting it close. The nice thing is, those can easily be moved to 48VDC. 
I wish Cambium did this with the 450i, but meh I guess.


On 5/6/2018 4:03 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
The GPS synced radios won't boot at 20v, but the subscriber modules 
should be able to run at a bit lower voltage (unless the 2.4ghz radios 
are different, which is possible). With a standard 29v ePMP power 
supply, there certainly shouldn't be anywhere near that much voltage 
drop on 100' of cable anyway (unless that cable is complete junk).


The thing that seems really odd to me about that, is that an ePMP 
normally should be drawing quite a bit less current than a PMP100 
(which means less voltage drop). I'm not sure what the minimum voltage 
is with a PMP100, but I know they can have problems at 12v, so I can't 
see it being much lower than an ePMP SM.


On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 9:01 AM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:


They don't boot at 20v.  I don't think you'd lose 4v at 100' but I
could be wrong.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St


Suite 1337


Troy, OH 45373



On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 4:30 PM, Philip Rankin
> wrote:

 I am changing a PMP 100.  That is 2.4 GHz over to an EPM
P1000 subscriber module and the PMP 100 works perfectly with
the standard PMP 100 power supply or I can even switch it over
 to the EPMP1000 standard supply and it will work. But if I
put the EPMP 1000 on it own supply that comes with it or the
standard PMP 100 supply the radio never shows power.  I have
tested the cable for continuity and is OK. I have to think
 that the cable is resistive and the Voltage is too low at the
EPMP1000. I have not checked that yet. The cable length is
right at 100 feet. Strange! The EPMP1000 works fine on a 6’
jumper to the PS.

Phil Rankin
Wireless Telecommunications Corp.
Pittsburg, KS

On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 1:56 PM Josh Luthman
> wrote:

Right pretty sure Chuck removed the ethernet issues with
the newer revision cards.  My issue, though, is the units
will lose power for anywhere from a moment (so they simply
power cycle) to 30 minutes.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St


Suite 1337


Troy, OH 45373



On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 12:38 PM, George Skorup
> wrote:

I'm running some 1k GPS radios from RSD-150C-24's
which always put out 24.0VDC. Injectors all at the
bottom, 100-200 feet of cable and they work fine.

The only real problem I've had is getting them to
maintain gigabit links without errors. They'll either
run fine with 50-100 CRC/FCS errors a day. Or I'll get
lots more FCS errors and the 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: One space versus two spaces (again)

[Robert]

Trivial stuff, the real meat is tabs versus spaces while programming...

On 5/6/18 7:21 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Double spacers of the world unite.  Everybody else can get the fu*k off 
our lawn.


-Original Message- From: ja...@remotelylocated.com
Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2018 8:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: One space versus two spaces (again)

You can tell someone's age by one or two spaces.  For me that is what I 
was taught and bugs the hell out of me when I see single space.


Sent from my iPhone


On May 6, 2018, at 5:49 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:


I remember there being a rather exuberant discussion a couple years 
ago about the advantages/disadvantages and goodness/badness of putting 
a single space after a sentence versus putting two spaces. The debate 
rages on, but this one study suggests that putting two spaces makes 
sentences easier to read.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2018/05/04/one-space-between-each-sentence-they-said-science-just-proved-them-wrong-2/?noredirect=on_term=.b61d35728d29 





--

bp

Re: [AFMUG] Problems with Packetflux Powerinjector

[Chuck McCown]

Yep, ptp100 would go down to 8

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 6, 2018, at 4:13 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> 
> I had a portable 12V battery that I would use for site surveys with the old 
> PMP100. I'm pretty sure they would function in the 8-10V region.
> 
> I know nothing about the ePMP radios. Trust George.
> 
> 
> bp
> 
> 
>> On 5/6/2018 2:33 PM, George Skorup wrote:
>> Original 5GHz integrated and connectorized are 14-30VDC, -4/5 +7/8 only.
> 

[AFMUG] OT: One space versus two spaces (again)

[Bill Prince]

I remember there being a rather exuberant discussion a couple years ago 
about the advantages/disadvantages and goodness/badness of putting a 
single space after a sentence versus putting two spaces. The debate 
rages on, but this one study suggests that putting two spaces makes 
sentences easier to read.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2018/05/04/one-space-between-each-sentence-they-said-science-just-proved-them-wrong-2/?noredirect=on_term=.b61d35728d29



--

bp

[AFMUG] Friends company looking for someone to work a day or two in Artesia, NM

[Jaime Solorza]

Please get me offlist.I can't travel next two weeks thanks

Jaime Solorza

Re: [AFMUG] OT: One space versus two spaces (again)

[jason]

You can tell someone's age by one or two spaces.  For me that is what I was 
taught and bugs the hell out of me when I see single space.  

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 6, 2018, at 5:49 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> 
> 
> I remember there being a rather exuberant discussion a couple years ago about 
> the advantages/disadvantages and goodness/badness of putting a single space 
> after a sentence versus putting two spaces. The debate rages on, but this one 
> study suggests that putting two spaces makes sentences easier to read.
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2018/05/04/one-space-between-each-sentence-they-said-science-just-proved-them-wrong-2/?noredirect=on_term=.b61d35728d29
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> bp
> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: One space versus two spaces (again)

[Chuck McCown]

Double spacers of the world unite.  Everybody else can get the fu*k off our 
lawn.


-Original Message- 
From: ja...@remotelylocated.com

Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2018 8:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: One space versus two spaces (again)

You can tell someone's age by one or two spaces.  For me that is what I was 
taught and bugs the hell out of me when I see single space.


Sent from my iPhone


On May 6, 2018, at 5:49 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:


I remember there being a rather exuberant discussion a couple years ago 
about the advantages/disadvantages and goodness/badness of putting a 
single space after a sentence versus putting two spaces. The debate rages 
on, but this one study suggests that putting two spaces makes sentences 
easier to read.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2018/05/04/one-space-between-each-sentence-they-said-science-just-proved-them-wrong-2/?noredirect=on_term=.b61d35728d29



--

bp

Re: [AFMUG] Problems with Packetflux Powerinjector

[George Skorup]

Funny story if you were using ePMP near the beginning. Some of the first 
original 5GHz integrated radios had labels marked 56VDC. They were 
definitely NOT capable of being powered from 48/56V. Somebody screwed up.


Yeah. We've run Force180/200 survey setups on a small 12V SLA too. It 
works, but they're rated at 14 volts. Same with the 100 and 450 SMs. 
Still works. However, I recall the regulator is very inefficient down 
that low. Like the old 320 and 430 APs could be run on 24VDC, but you 
really didn't want to do that, and Motorola/Cambium said it was 
completely unsupported.


On 5/6/2018 5:13 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
I had a portable 12V battery that I would use for site surveys with 
the old PMP100. I'm pretty sure they would function in the 8-10V region.


I know nothing about the ePMP radios. Trust George.


bp


On 5/6/2018 2:33 PM, George Skorup wrote:

Original 5GHz integrated and connectorized are 14-30VDC, -4/5 +7/8 only.

Re: [AFMUG] OT: One space versus two spaces (again)

[Chuck McCown]

That was right out of the style guide I had to use in college.
Really don't remember which one it was.  Probably MLA.

But I always use two spaces.  Totally automatic.

-Original Message- 
From: Bill Prince

Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2018 6:49 PM
To: Motorola III
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: One space versus two spaces (again)


I remember there being a rather exuberant discussion a couple years ago
about the advantages/disadvantages and goodness/badness of putting a
single space after a sentence versus putting two spaces. The debate
rages on, but this one study suggests that putting two spaces makes
sentences easier to read.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2018/05/04/one-space-between-each-sentence-they-said-science-just-proved-them-wrong-2/?noredirect=on_term=.b61d35728d29



--

bp

Re: [AFMUG] Feliz Cinco De Mayo, ya'all

[Chuck McCown]

Salud!

From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2018 7:42 PM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: [AFMUG] Feliz Cinco De Mayo, ya'all

Enjoying a cold one!!!


Jaime Solorza

Re: [AFMUG] Problems with Packetflux Powerinjector

[Josh Luthman]

They don't boot at 20v.  I don't think you'd lose 4v at 100' but I could be
wrong.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 4:30 PM, Philip Rankin  wrote:

>  I am changing a PMP 100.  That is 2.4 GHz over to an EPM P1000 subscriber
> module and the PMP 100 works perfectly with the standard PMP 100 power
> supply or I can even switch it over  to the EPMP1000 standard supply and it
> will work. But if I put the EPMP 1000 on it own supply that comes with it
> or the standard PMP 100 supply the radio never shows power.  I have tested
> the cable for continuity and is OK. I have to think  that the cable is
> resistive and the Voltage is too low at the EPMP1000. I have not checked
> that yet. The cable length is right at 100 feet. Strange!  The EPMP1000
> works fine on a 6’ jumper to the PS.
>
> Phil Rankin
> Wireless Telecommunications Corp.
> Pittsburg, KS
>
> On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 1:56 PM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> Right pretty sure Chuck removed the ethernet issues with the newer
>> revision cards.  My issue, though, is the units will lose power for
>> anywhere from a moment (so they simply power cycle) to 30 minutes.
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> 
>> Suite 1337
>> 
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> 
>>
>> On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 12:38 PM, George Skorup 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm running some 1k GPS radios from RSD-150C-24's which always put out
>>> 24.0VDC. Injectors all at the bottom, 100-200 feet of cable and they work
>>> fine.
>>>
>>> The only real problem I've had is getting them to maintain gigabit links
>>> without errors. They'll either run fine with 50-100 CRC/FCS errors a day.
>>> Or I'll get lots more FCS errors and the links will drop a couple times a
>>> day. Some of them will eventually fall back to 100Mbps. Take the GigE-APCs
>>> out and they run gigabit with no errors.
>>>
>>> Chuck sent me some modified CAT6-APCs to try. I just haven't had time to
>>> dive into it yet. Hopefully next week when we replace a couple of those 1k
>>> GPS radios with PTP550s.
>>>
>>> On 5/2/2018 11:22 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>>
>>> There is - here are the counters: https://imgur.com/a/FdVP9IF
>>> Note that bb5/6/7 have been losing power frequently too.
>>>
>>> If the voltage is too low, why would they randomly reboot maybe once or
>>> twice a week and then be fine for months at a time?
>>>
>>> The runs are well under 100m.  24vdc feeds the NEMA enclosure, then we
>>> have maybe 25 feet of cat5 to APs.
>>>
>>> I would think it's no more than 1 volt loss from my 24v source to the
>>> AP, but I have not verified this.  I know it's 24v at the green terminal
>>> block to the POE injector/Gigabit Sync injector.
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> 
>>> Suite 1337
>>> 
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>> 
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 6:00 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
>>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>>
 If you have a base unit attached to these, you should look at the event
 counters on the tripped line in the binary/boolean tab to determine if the
 device is detecting an overcurrent event.If it's seeing an overcurrent
 trip, then yes, check the surge suppressors.

 The other item is what has been mentioned, if you have too low of a
 voltage into the PowerInjector, the ePMP's will reboot.   This is
 especially true in cold weather since the units seem to draw more even
 after startup.   You need around at least 26V on the input of the power
 injector, if not a bit more, for an ePMP to run correctly on a full 100m of
 cable.  You could probably get away with a bit lower voltage on shorter
 runs.

 The 10/100 injector doesn't drop quite as many volts due to it being a
 switch closure instead of a semiconductor junction, so you might be right
 on the edge of what is acceptable.

 BTW, too low of voltage will also cause 'trips', as when the voltage
 drops below acceptable ranges for the ePMP, the ePMP power supply circuit
 tries to pull more and more power from the CAT5 cable, eventually causing
 what looks like a brief short circuit just before it shuts down.

 On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 11:16 AM, Josh