[AFMUG] Fwd: OT: IOS vs Android

[Jason Wilson]

Convince me not to give up my Pixel XL for any version of an iPhone.  All
of my Computers are MacOS.

Jason
Jason Wilson
Remotely Located
Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
530-651-1736 <(530)%20651-1736> Office
530-748-9608 <(530)%20748-9608> Cell
www.remotelylocated.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Sunday afternoon in the shop with one of my sons

[chuck]

If I install a inert atmosphere induction forge so I can guarantee the steel 
quality, I might make a few for sale.  Hand forging with a coke forge is not 
a good way to get good quality damascus.


-Original Message- 
From: Adam Moffett

Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 1:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Sunday afternoon in the shop with one of my sons

Yeah, you should sell those on Etsy.


-- Original Message --
From: "Robert Andrews" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 12/17/2017 3:04:56 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Sunday afternoon in the shop with one of my sons


Pretty cool Xmas gifts!

On 12/17/2017 11:50 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

You guys have interesting hobbies.


-- Original Message --
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 12/17/2017 2:49:54 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Sunday afternoon in the shop with one of my sons


Yep, making Damascus Steel blades.

-Original Message- From: Adam Moffett Sent: Sunday, December 17, 
2017 12:47 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Sunday afternoon 
in the shop with one of my sons

Blacksmithing?

-- Original Message --
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 12/17/2017 2:45:12 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Sunday afternoon in the shop with one of my sons


He is making his father in law a gift.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Sunday afternoon in the shop with one of my sons

[Adam Moffett]

Yeah, you should sell those on Etsy.


-- Original Message --
From: "Robert Andrews" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 12/17/2017 3:04:56 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Sunday afternoon in the shop with one of my sons


Pretty cool Xmas gifts!

On 12/17/2017 11:50 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

You guys have interesting hobbies.


-- Original Message --
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 12/17/2017 2:49:54 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Sunday afternoon in the shop with one of my 
sons



Yep, making Damascus Steel blades.

-Original Message- From: Adam Moffett Sent: Sunday, December 
17, 2017 12:47 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Sunday 
afternoon in the shop with one of my sons

Blacksmithing?

-- Original Message --
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 12/17/2017 2:45:12 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Sunday afternoon in the shop with one of my sons


He is making his father in law a gift.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Sunday afternoon in the shop with one of my sons

[Robert Andrews]

Pretty cool Xmas gifts!

On 12/17/2017 11:50 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

You guys have interesting hobbies.


-- Original Message --
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 12/17/2017 2:49:54 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Sunday afternoon in the shop with one of my sons


Yep, making Damascus Steel blades.

-Original Message- From: Adam Moffett Sent: Sunday, December 
17, 2017 12:47 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Sunday 
afternoon in the shop with one of my sons

Blacksmithing?

-- Original Message --
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 12/17/2017 2:45:12 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Sunday afternoon in the shop with one of my sons


He is making his father in law a gift.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Sunday afternoon in the shop with one of my sons

[chuck]

We are easily bored.

-Original Message- 
From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 12:50 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Sunday afternoon in the shop with one of my sons 


You guys have interesting hobbies.


-- Original Message --
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 12/17/2017 2:49:54 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Sunday afternoon in the shop with one of my sons


Yep, making Damascus Steel blades.

-Original Message- From: Adam Moffett Sent: Sunday, December 
17, 2017 12:47 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Sunday 
afternoon in the shop with one of my sons

Blacksmithing?

-- Original Message --
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 12/17/2017 2:45:12 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Sunday afternoon in the shop with one of my sons


He is making his father in law a gift.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Sunday afternoon in the shop with one of my sons

[Adam Moffett]

You guys have interesting hobbies.


-- Original Message --
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 12/17/2017 2:49:54 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Sunday afternoon in the shop with one of my sons


Yep, making Damascus Steel blades.

-Original Message- From: Adam Moffett Sent: Sunday, December 
17, 2017 12:47 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Sunday 
afternoon in the shop with one of my sons

Blacksmithing?

-- Original Message --
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 12/17/2017 2:45:12 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Sunday afternoon in the shop with one of my sons


He is making his father in law a gift.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Sunday afternoon in the shop with one of my sons

[chuck]

Yep, making Damascus Steel blades.

-Original Message- 
From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 12:47 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Sunday afternoon in the shop with one of my sons 


Blacksmithing?

-- Original Message --
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 12/17/2017 2:45:12 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Sunday afternoon in the shop with one of my sons


He is making his father in law a gift.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Sunday afternoon in the shop with one of my sons

[Adam Moffett]

Blacksmithing?

-- Original Message --
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 12/17/2017 2:45:12 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Sunday afternoon in the shop with one of my sons


He is making his father in law a gift.

Re: [AFMUG] AF5x Failure Rate

[Mathew Howard]

We have lots of AF-5x links, and as far as I can remember, we've had one
radio die - and that was when the tower took a direct lightning strike.

On Dec 17, 2017 11:33 AM, "Nate Burke"  wrote:

> 3 links in diverse parts of the network,� 2 links are on the 18" UNBT
> dishes, 1 is on a set of beehive dishes with 5ghz feedhorns.� 2 failures
> were within a week of install, the 2 links with immediate failures were
> installed months apart.� Another failure was on a radio running for over
> a year.� No weather issues when radio stop.� SA is Hearing noise
> normally, so I think that something happens to the TX on the radio.� New
> radio on same dish/channel/power links up immediately.�
>
> On 12/17/2017 11:24 AM, Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] wrote:
>
> I have about 30 AF5X links. I've had exactly 1 radio die since I started
> using these things when they first came out.�
>
> Can you describe your setup a bit better?
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7 active, an AT 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: Nate Burke  
> Date: 12/17/17 11:19 AM (GMT-06:00)
> To: Animal Farm  
> Subject: [AFMUG] AF5x Failure Rate
>
> I only have 3 AF5X links, But I've replaced 3 of the 6 radio units so
> far.� They all have had RF problems where the link drops, but Ethernet
> and MGMT is just fine.� I just had another radio go bad this weekend.�
> I
> have a couple Dozen AF5 links in the air, and have had no problems with
> those.� Is the Failure rate on the 5X radio that high, or am I just
> extremely unlucky?
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Our NN statment

[Jason McKemie]

It is, I'm playing devil's advocate here :)  I just see the argument for
charging content provider - hopefully things do not go that way on a wide
scale though, as things could get messy for small ISPs.

On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 1:24 AM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> Infrastructure, overheard, maintenance, bandwidth. Should be covered and
> distributed by the customers' monthly fees and any installation fees. If
> it's not, how are you still in business and still expanding?
>
>
> On Dec 16, 2017 4:10 PM, "Jason McKemie" 
> wrote:
>
>> There are other costs besides bandwidth.
>>
>> On Saturday, December 16, 2017,  wrote:
>>
>>> Why shouldn't people expect the bill to be the same? The cost of
>>> bandwidth has gone down about 10-15x since Netflix streaming launched.
>>>
>>> Jared
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017
>>> From: "Jason McKemie" 
>>> To: "af@afmug.com" 
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our NN statment
>>> I'm not saying that isn't the way it is, but I was selling internet
>>> service before Netflix was a thing - people use about 10-15x the bandwidth
>>> now, but expect their internet bill to be the same.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, December 16, 2017, Carl Peterson <
>>> cpeter...@portnetworks.com[mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com]> wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't get it.  That is what your customers are paying you to deliver
>>> to them.  Why should you be able to charge Netflix as well.  What if they
>>> say no.  What if they say screw you your IPs can't get Netflix and block
>>> you entirely.
>>>
>>> On Dec 16, 2017, at 11:34 AM, Jason McKemie <
>>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com[mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm pretty sure my network would not qualify for that, and while it
>>> would certainly help, it would not eliminate the cost entirely.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, December 16, 2017, Chuck McCown >> ch...@wbmfg.com]> wrote:
>>>
>>> I have had a netflix caching server for several years.  It was free.
>>> Does not add to my backbone cost as it fills itself during the off hours.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Jason McKemie
>>> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 9:29 AM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our NN statment
>>>
>>> IMO, the true cost of a service like Netflix is more than the monthly
>>> rate that they bill their customers. As ISPs, we just have to absorb that
>>> cost or raise prices to compensate, doesn't help with the big bad ISP
>>> perception.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, December 16, 2017, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
>>> It would mirror access charges in the telecom world.  There are some
>>> logical reasons why such a scheme would be fair, but it would really drive
>>> up the cost of everything.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Mike Hammett
>>> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 8:18 AM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our NN statment
>>>
>>>
>>> A lot of people wanted to do that back in the day. I had no idea why.
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions[http://www.ics-il.com/]
>>> [https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL][https://plus.google.com/+In
>>> telligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb][https://www.linkedin.com/
>>> company/intelligent-computing-solutions][https://twitter.com/ICSIL
>>> 
>>> ]
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange[http://www.midwest-ix.com/]
>>> [https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix][https://www.linkedin.com
>>> /company/midwest-internet-exchange][https://twitter.com/mdwestix]
>>> The Brothers WISP[http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/]
>>> [https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp][https://www.youtu
>>> be.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> From: "Ron M." 
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 8:00:10 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Our NN statment
>>>
>>>
>>> What I'm thinking here... don't charge the end users. Get good IP
>>> traffic accounting and charge the upstream content providers for carrying
>>> THEIR sourced traffic. Don't penalize the end users. ;-)
>>>  (My $0.02, can I have my change back now?)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 2:21 PM, George Skorup 
>>> wrote:
>>> One of our tech support guys asked me yesterday if we're going to start
>>> charging for access to Facebook, Netflix, etc. I was just like, dude,
>>> seriously? Yeah, cuz that will surely get us customers. He said, but now we
>>> can, so why wouldn't we? I said, but did we before NN? And then I realized
>>> he was just trying to annoy me. Same shit the media is doing. FUD dbag
>>> tactics. IT'S A TRAP!
>>>
>>> On 12/15/2017 2:59 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>>> Exactly. 

Re: [AFMUG] AF5x Failure Rate

[Nate Burke]

3 links in diverse parts of the network,  2 links are on the 18" UNBT 
dishes, 1 is on a set of beehive dishes with 5ghz feedhorns.  2 failures 
were within a week of install, the 2 links with immediate failures were 
installed months apart.  Another failure was on a radio running for over 
a year.  No weather issues when radio stop. SA is Hearing noise 
normally, so I think that something happens to the TX on the radio.  New 
radio on same dish/channel/power links up immediately.


On 12/17/2017 11:24 AM, Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] wrote:
I have about 30 AF5X links. I've had exactly 1 radio die since I 
started using these things when they first came out.


Can you describe your setup a bit better?

Jim



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7 active, an AT 4G LTE smartphone


 Original message 
From: Nate Burke 
Date: 12/17/17 11:19 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: [AFMUG] AF5x Failure Rate

I only have 3 AF5X links, But I've replaced 3 of the 6 radio units so
far.  They all have had RF problems where the link drops, but Ethernet
and MGMT is just fine.  I just had another radio go bad this weekend.  I
have a couple Dozen AF5 links in the air, and have had no problems with
those.  Is the Failure rate on the 5X radio that high, or am I just
extremely unlucky?

Re: [AFMUG] AF5x Failure Rate

[Adair Winter]

Same. We have almost 50 af5x links and have had very little trouble with
the Rf portion that wasn't related to a bad jumper, etc.

On Dec 17, 2017 11:24 AM, "Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]" 
wrote:

> I have about 30 AF5X links. I've had exactly 1 radio die since I started
> using these things when they first came out.
>
> Can you describe your setup a bit better?
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7 active, an AT 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: Nate Burke 
> Date: 12/17/17 11:19 AM (GMT-06:00)
> To: Animal Farm 
> Subject: [AFMUG] AF5x Failure Rate
>
> I only have 3 AF5X links, But I've replaced 3 of the 6 radio units so
> far.  They all have had RF problems where the link drops, but Ethernet
> and MGMT is just fine.  I just had another radio go bad this weekend.  I
> have a couple Dozen AF5 links in the air, and have had no problems with
> those.  Is the Failure rate on the 5X radio that high, or am I just
> extremely unlucky?
>

Re: [AFMUG] AF5x Failure Rate

[Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]]

I have about 30 AF5X links. I've had exactly 1 radio die since I started using 
these things when they first came out.

Can you describe your setup a bit better?

Jim



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7 active, an AT 4G LTE smartphone


 Original message 
From: Nate Burke 
Date: 12/17/17 11:19 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: [AFMUG] AF5x Failure Rate

I only have 3 AF5X links, But I've replaced 3 of the 6 radio units so
far.  They all have had RF problems where the link drops, but Ethernet
and MGMT is just fine.  I just had another radio go bad this weekend.  I
have a couple Dozen AF5 links in the air, and have had no problems with
those.  Is the Failure rate on the 5X radio that high, or am I just
extremely unlucky?

[AFMUG] AF5x Failure Rate

[Nate Burke]

I only have 3 AF5X links, But I've replaced 3 of the 6 radio units so 
far.  They all have had RF problems where the link drops, but Ethernet 
and MGMT is just fine.  I just had another radio go bad this weekend.  I 
have a couple Dozen AF5 links in the air, and have had no problems with 
those.  Is the Failure rate on the 5X radio that high, or am I just 
extremely unlucky?

Re: [AFMUG] OT stupid and sad

[Lewis Bergman]

I hated that show. Having said that, I get it and am glad you liked it.
Yea...I guess we should destroy every work by flawed individuals and go
back to the Stone age.

On Sat, Dec 16, 2017, 7:13 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Prairie Home Companion is now called “Live From Here”
> I raised my 8 kids on that show.
>
> I guess they need to toss all art made by all womanizers.
> They should go into MOMA and anywhere else they are displayed and destroy
> the murals by Diego Rivera.
>
> Toss all the James Bond and anything else Ian Fleming wrote, anything with
> Jack Nicholson in it.
> How long before the pendulum starts to swing back.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Our NN statment

[Lewis Bergman]

While I always believe that if cost effective, peering should be done. We
saw our transit demands drop by 70 percent when we did it. Having said
that, bandwidth costs were only 8 percent of the expense side. Labor was
always the biggest, then equipment depreciation, and so on.
I guess I am just repeating what has already been said. If your sole plan
to deal with cost increases is to lower your bandwidth costs then you are
tripping over dollars to save dimes. It is an expensive business. We found
that aggressively upgrading equipment while reusing the older stuff for the
half of our customers that didn't want more bandwidth was one key.
Every market is different but my bet is that most people's bandwidth is not
the big not to crack.

On Sun, Dec 17, 2017, 1:29 AM Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> So focus more on the importance of peering to help unburden your transit
> costs. Transport will be what it is until you can do something about that.
>
> Peer directly with the major content providers and your costs can very
> likely go down.
>
> For those of you where locality or other factors exclude easy peering,
> that seems to be the next step in your region. Form an IX :)
>
> On Dec 16, 2017 5:37 PM, "Lewis Bergman"  wrote:
>
>> The content providers are what the ISP users are demanding. Users are not
>> demanding bandwidth to run speed tests... Ok, most of them aren't. They
>> want the content to watch from those providers. I would say the content
>> providers are still in the driver's seat.
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 16, 2017, 5:31 PM Jason McKemie <
>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>
>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, December 16, 2017,  wrote:
>>>
 "Jason McKemie"  wrote:
 > When I said bandwidth, I was referring more to internet egress.
   Sure, I get that, but how is that related to the size of the
 consumer's bill, given that bandwidth prices have declined in sync with
 usage growth?
>>>
>>>
>>> Bandwidth prices per customer have not really dropped much at all based
>>> on how much more people are using.
>>>
>>>
 > Then there is more support time associated with streaming usage,
 inflation, etc etc.
   At the same time the customer base has grown, offsetting any other
 costs. So, tell me again, why should consumers expect a larger bill?
>>>
>>>
>>> Labor costs, taxes, everything else associated with doing business is
>>> more expensive now.
>>>

 > This would also allow the ISP to charge less to the consumer while
 recouping that money behind the scenes from the likes of Netflix -
 > basically the reverse of what they currently do.
   I don't think the ISPs are wearing the pants in this relationship.
 Wait until Netflix decides to charge the ISPs a carriage fee instead :)
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm not going to get Netflix to pay me, but Comcast, AT, and Verizon
>>> are definitely wearing the pants, and the content providers know it, hence
>>> the huge fight over NN.
>>>
>>>


 Jared

>>>